Would you take Lynch rushing for 2000 Yards??

[DraftBoy]

No this is not a stupid question. Here is the scenario, never in the history of the NFL has a player rushed for 2000 yards and his team not made the playoffs, heck only five players in NFL history have ever done it. So would you all like to see Lynch do it, and it would give us a high likelihood of making the playoffs.

Yes there is a catch of course, but I want to see if anybody can figure it out.

[Dr. Lecter]

I suppose if he runs over LB's like they are pedestrians, it is possible.

[DraftBoy]

I suppose if he runs over LB's like they are pedestrians, it is possible.

Im not asking if it is possible or not, Im asking if you'd like to see it happen.

[Dr. Lecter]

What is the catch?

Did none of them win the SB?

BTW, the Bills did not make the playoffs in 1973 so your premise is incorrect.

[DraftBoy]

What is the catch?

Did none of them win the SB?

BTW, the Bills did not make the playoffs in 1973 so your premise is incorrect.

Wikipedia lies then!

You'll find out the catch once you answer the question. And No it has nothing to do with Superbowls.

[Historian]

BTW, the Bills did not make the playoffs in 1973 so your premise is incorrect.

Umm....thank you, but that's my job, herr Doktor....

:D

[DraftBoy]

Umm....thank you, but that's my job, herr Doktor....

:D

You are too slow on this one, but still nobody will answer the question!

[Historian]

Ok...I'll take a stab:

Is it conceivable?

Yes.

Likely?

Meh.

OJ ran for 2003 (in 14 games) behind a line that had been together only for one season.

1973 was his 5th year in the league though. Plus OJ was a sprinter in college.

Watching Lynch in college, he reminds me more of Thurman or Cribbs.

And this isn't the Pac-10.

So I would be skeptical.

1200...1300...good bet.

2000?

I doubt it.

[Jan Reimers]

Wikipedia lies then!
That's the problem with using unreliable sources, rather than the Doc and Historian.

[DraftBoy]

Ok...I'll take a stab:

Is it conceivable?

Yes.

Likley?

Meh.

OJ ran for 2003 (in 14 games) behind a line that had been together only for one season.

1973 was his 5th year in the league though. Plus OJ was a sprinter in college.

Watching Lynch in college, he reminds me more of Thurman or Cribbs.

And this isn't the Pac-10.

So I would be skeptical.

1200...1300...good bet.

2000?

I doubt it.

For gods sake, does anybody read anymore??

Im not asking is it feasible, Im asking if you want it to happen, I dont care about if its realistic or not.

[DraftBoy]

That's the problem with using unreliable sources, rather than the Doc and Historian.

Yea I know my bad

[Dr. Lecter]

For gods sake, does anybody read anymore??

Im not asking is it feasible, Im asking if you want it to happen, I dont care about if its realistic or not.

How do we know if we want it to happen w/ knowing the consequences?

You admit there is more to the story, but won't tell us what it is.

Would he retire? Be suspended for a year? Suffering a career ending injury? Get arrested for selling crack so he can buy teenage boys? Announce he is a Hillary supporter? Be on "Dancing with the Stars"?

On the surface, we all want the playoffs. But if the consequences are too severe, we might wait.

[Historian]

Okay...YES...unless we traded him to the fish.

[Jan Reimers]

Announcing he's a Hillary supporter would be the worst.

[R. Rich]

I guess it would be coo to see a Bills RB get 2,000 yards, but actually Matthew, I'm more concerned w/ the TEAM winning a championship than I am a player reaching an individual goal. For the sake of your question though, I guess I'd say that I would like to see it.

[R. Rich]

That's the problem with using unreliable sources, like the Doc and Historian.

Low blow, JR.

[Jan Reimers]

Low blow, JR.
What's the penalty around here for tampering with a guy's post?

[Dr. Lecter]

The person whose post was tampered with gets to slap the offending party.

So now you get one shot at Rich.

[feelthepain]

Yes there is a catch of course, but I want to see if anybody can figure it out.
It would mean Edwards isn't going to be a big part of the picture.

[DraftBoy]

How do we know if we want it to happen w/ knowing the consequences?

You admit there is more to the story, but won't tell us what it is.

Would he retire? Be suspended for a year? Suffering a career ending injury? Get arrested for selling crack so he can buy teenage boys? Announce he is a Hillary supporter? Be on "Dancing with the Stars"?

On the surface, we all want the playoffs. But if the consequences are too severe, we might wait.

No this is not some made up consequence its just what happens after a player rushes for 2000 yards. What Im asking is would you trade short term success of a playoff starved team, for a long term career with out guaranteed success??

Lets break it down;
5 players in NFL history have rushed for 2000 yards;
1973-OJ Simpson
1984-Eric Dickerson
1997-Barry Sanders
1998-Terrell Davis
2003-Jamal Lewis

Here are their stats from their record breaking years;
Simpson-332 carries, 2003 yards, 12 TD, 6.0 YPC
Dickerson-379 carries, 2105 yards, 14 TD, 5.6 YPC
Sanders-335 carries, 2053 yards, 11 TD, 6.1 YPC
Davis-392 carries, 2008 yards, 21 TD, 5.1 YPC
Lewis-387 carries, 2066 yards, 14 TD, 5.3 YPC

However here are those players stats the following year;
Simpson-270 carries, 1125 yards, 3 TD, 4.2 YPC
Dickerson-292 carries, 1234 yards, 12 TD, 4.2 YPC
Sanders-343 carries, 1491 yards, 4 TD, 4.3 YPC
Davis-67 carries, 211 yards, 2 TD, 3.1 YPC
Lewis-235 carries, 1006 yards, 7 TD, 4.3

Most players break down after a 2000 yard season and never again regain form. Only Simpson and Dickerson were ever able to eclipse the 1600 yard mark in a season again; Dickerson in 86 and 88, but he was never the same back after that, and Simpson in 75 but he tailed off after that. On the other hand Barry Sanders retired two years after his 2000 yard season and Terrell Davis 3 years after his. Also Jamal Lewis is half the back he once was and modern history does not indicate that a back can bounce back from a 2000 yard season like that.

So the question is, would you take Marshawn Lynch as a 2000 yard rusher given this risk?

[DraftBoy]

It would mean Edwards isn't going to be a big part of the picture.

No it wouldn't but thanks for playing, try again sometime!

[Dr. Lecter]

Lynch would be the youngest to do so too, so that is a big difference.

Sanders never broke down, as much as he just decided to leave the game.

If Lynch did it this year, the situation and scenario would be much different than OJ, Lewis and Davis.

I would take that success if he had two more 1,600 yard seasons though. To get 3 years like that out of a RB is a rare success. Most RB's only have 4-5 really good seasons. Thomas, Smith, Payton, etc. are the exception.

[DraftBoy]

Lynch would be the youngest to do so too, so that is a big difference.

Sanders never broke down, as much as he just decided to leave the game.

If Lynch did it this year, the situation and scenario would be much different than OJ, Lewis and Davis.

I would take that success if he had two more 1,600 yard seasons though. To get 3 years like that out of a RB is a rare success. Most RB's only have 4-5 really good seasons. Thomas, Smith, Payton, etc. are the exception.

Lynch would be 23, Dickerson was 24 when he did it, Lewis was 25.

We dont know about Sanders health condition, so the speculation on that could go both ways. His play did decline the year before he retired. Nobody knows about now.

Based on modern history I dont know that we accurately predict Lynch again going over 1600 if he were to break the 2000 mark this year. So for the sake of this question, lets say he breaks 2k and then produces like Jamal Lewis, do you take it or not?

[Jan Reimers]

The person whose post was tampered with gets to slap the offending party.

So now you get one shot at Rich.
Oh, thanks. My first, and last.

[R. Rich]

What's the penalty around here for tampering with a guy's post?

Enduring incessant whining.


The person whose post was tampered with gets to slap the offending party.

So now you get one shot at Rich.

This phenomenom is known as, "if you can't do it yourself, find a sucker to try it".

[R. Rich]

No this is not some made up consequence its just what happens after a player rushes for 2000 yards. What Im asking is would you trade short term success of a playoff starved team, for a long term career with out guaranteed success??

Lets break it down;
5 players in NFL history have rushed for 2000 yards;
1973-OJ Simpson
1984-Eric Dickerson
1997-Barry Sanders
1998-Terrell Davis
2003-Jamal Lewis

Here are their stats from their record breaking years;
Simpson-332 carries, 2003 yards, 12 TD, 6.0 YPC
Dickerson-379 carries, 2105 yards, 14 TD, 5.6 YPC
Sanders-335 carries, 2053 yards, 11 TD, 6.1 YPC
Davis-392 carries, 2008 yards, 21 TD, 5.1 YPC
Lewis-387 carries, 2066 yards, 14 TD, 5.3 YPC

However here are those players stats the following year;
Simpson-270 carries, 1125 yards, 3 TD, 4.2 YPC
Dickerson-292 carries, 1234 yards, 12 TD, 4.2 YPC
Sanders-343 carries, 1491 yards, 4 TD, 4.3 YPC
Davis-67 carries, 211 yards, 2 TD, 3.1 YPC
Lewis-235 carries, 1006 yards, 7 TD, 4.3

Most players break down after a 2000 yard season and never again regain form. Only Simpson and Dickerson were ever able to eclipse the 1600 yard mark in a season again; Dickerson in 86 and 88, but he was never the same back after that, and Simpson in 75 but he tailed off after that. On the other hand Barry Sanders retired two years after his 2000 yard season and Terrell Davis 3 years after his. Also Jamal Lewis is half the back he once was and modern history does not indicate that a back can bounce back from a 2000 yard season like that.

So the question is, would you take Marshawn Lynch as a 2000 yard rusher given this risk?


In the case of Sanders, it wasn't a case of "wearing down". The guy wanted his team to do what they could to get on the winning track. They didn't, so he retired. Well, I guess you're right; he did break down the year after getting 2,000:

343 rushes for 1,491 yds (4.3 ypr), 4 TDs, w/ an additional 289 yds on 37 catches.

That left him 1,457 yds away from tying the record, and since he averaged over 1,500 yds rushing per season, I feel certain he would've obliterated that record had Detroit tried to put a winning team 'round him.

[DraftBoy]

In the case of Sanders, it wasn't a case of "wearing down". The guy wanted his team to do what they could to get on the winning track. They didn't, so he retired. Well, I guess you're right; he did break down the year after getting 2,000:

343 rushes for 1,491 yds (4.3 ypr), 4 TDs, w/ an additional 289 yds on 37 catches.

That left him 1,457 yds away from tying the record, and since he averaged over 1,500 yds rushing per season, I feel certain he would've obliterated that record had Detroit tried to put a winning team 'round him.

While that was the reason he gave, we cannot accurately perdict if it would of taken him only one more season, or two or even three. I think he would of broke the record without a doubt, but there is also little doubt that his 2000 yard season took a toll on his body.

[R. Rich]

While that was the reason he gave, we cannot accurately perdict if it would of taken him only one more season, or two or even three. I think he would of broke the record without a doubt, but there is also little doubt that his 2000 yard season took a toll on his body.

Oh, I get it; so, you provided stats and your opinion on that issue then.

[justasportsfan]

No this is not a stupid question. Here is the scenario, never in the history of the NFL has a player rushed for 2000 yards and his team not made the playoffs, heck only five players in NFL history have ever done it. So would you all like to see Lynch do it, and it would give us a high likelihood of making the playoffs.

Yes there is a catch of course, but I want to see if anybody can figure it out.
I would rather Lynch run for 300 yards and team make post season. Team first

[DraftBoy]

Oh, I get it; so, you provided stats and your opinion on that issue then.

Yep kind of the point of the message board! :respect:

[R. Rich]

Just as long as you don't try to combine the two. What Sanders did is fact; your interpretation of what he could and/or could not do is opinion.

[Historian]

Yep kind of the point of the message board! :respect:

I think this whole thread is the silliest thing I've ever read.

Make that the 2nd silliest.

Okay fess up...who hacked Draftboy's account?

[DraftBoy]

Just as long as you don't try to combine the two. What Sanders did is fact; your interpretation of what he could and/or could not do is opinion.

What Sanders did was follow the trend of the 2000 yard rusher. Could he of regained form? That of course opinion based. We both think he would of broken the record, but I dont think that he would of ever been the same back having watched him in 98 the year after his 2000 yard season he didnt look the same.

[DraftBoy]

I think this whole thread is the silliest thing I've ever read.

Make that the 2nd silliest.

Okay fess up...who hacked Draftboy's account?

:couch:

My fault on posting coherent thoughts and complex rhetorical questions. Ill go back to my Draft Dungeon now...

[R. Rich]

What Sanders did was follow the trend of the 2000 yard rusher. Could he of regained form? That of course opinion based. We both think he would of broken the record, but I dont think that he would of ever been the same back having watched him in 98 the year after his 2000 yard season he didnt look the same.

Considering he ran for over 2,000 yards in his 9th professional season and followed it up w/ a season better than all but one of his first FIVE professional seasons in terms of yards gained, I think it's a bit inaccurate to speak of his "decline".

[justasportsfan]

:couch:

My fault on posting coherent thoughts and complex rhetorical questions. Ill go back to my Draft Dungeon now...
please leave the keys behind.

[Dr. Lecter]

What Sanders did was follow the trend of the 2000 yard rusher. Could he of regained form? That of course opinion based. We both think he would of broken the record, but I dont think that he would of ever been the same back having watched him in 98 the year after his 2000 yard season he didnt look the same.

4 data points do not make a trend.

And, Dickerson and Sanders do not have significant declines, in that both had big years following the 2,000 yard season.

[DraftBoy]

Considering he ran for over 2,000 yards in his 9th professional season and followed it up w/ a season better than all but one of his first FIVE professional seasons in terms of yards gained, I think it's a bit inaccurate to speak of his "decline".

I dont and the stats dont support that opinion, only two players in history have ever again eclipsed 1600 yards after rushing for 2000, one was Eric Dickerson on extremely young legs with little wear and tear. It took OJ 2 years to do it and prior to 73 he had never had a year of over 300 carries and had plenty of tread left on his tires. This compared to Sanders who was the oldest back to ever go for 2000 and had already had 5 seasons of over 300 carries on his legs.

[DraftBoy]

4 data points do not make a trend.

And, Dickerson and Sanders do not have significant declines, in that both had big years following the 2,000 yard season.

Dickerson only had 1100 yards thats almost a 900 yard decline in production, his TD number was good, but his YPC fell by 1.8, thats a pretty big decline.

Sanders had the yards in just under 1500, but his TD number being only 4 and his YPC also falling by 1.8 is significant.

[Ickybaluky]

Guys suffering a decline after big seasons (why limit it to just 2,000-yard seasons? Makes no sense) are usually guys who carry the ball a lot.

The year Atlanta went to the Super Bowl, Jamal Anderson carried the ball 410 times. Larry Johnson carried the ball 416 times a couple years ago. Both guys were hurt shortly afterwards.

By contract, Barry Sanders ran for 2,000 yards on 335 carries. He broke a lot of long runs and he was elusive, so he didn't have the wear and tear.

Terrell Davis carried the ball 369 times and 392 times (his 2,000 yard year) in successive seasons before suffering the knee injury that ultimately cut his career short.

O.J. Simpson only carried the ball 332 times when he broke 2,000 yards. Again, he has the long speed to get the yards without taking as much abuse. He has 1,000 or more years (in 14 game seasons) for the 3 following seasons, including over 1,800 yards 2 years after running for 2,000.

The question should be: Would you want to run Marshawn Lynch 400+ times to make the playoffs next year? Carrying that kind of load would be a long-term risk.

However, if a guy can run for 2,000 yards in 325 carries, why wouldn't anyone want that for their team?

[DraftBoy]

Guys suffering a decline after big seasons (why limit it to just 2,000-yard seasons? Makes no sense) are usually guys who carry the ball a lot.

The year Atlanta went to the Super Bowl, Jamal Anderson carried the ball 410 times. Larry Johnson carried the ball 416 times a couple years ago. Both guys were hurt shortly afterwards.

By contract, Barry Sanders ran for 2,000 yards on 335 carries. He broke a lot of long runs and he was elusive, so he didn't have the wear and tear.

Terrell Davis carried the ball 369 times and 392 times (his 2,000 yard year) in successive seasons before suffering the knee injury that ultimately cut his career short.

O.J. Simpson only carried the ball 332 times when he broke 2,000 yards. Again, he has the long speed to get the yards without taking as much abuse. He has 1,000 or more years (in 14 game seasons) for the 3 following seasons, including over 1,800 yards 2 years after running for 2,000.

The question should be: Would you want to run Marshawn Lynch 400+ times to make the playoffs next year? Carrying that kind of load would be a long-term risk.

However, if a guy can run for 2,000 yards in 325 carries, why wouldn't anyone want that for their team?

Because he will have a down year at least the next year. Could he by like Dickerson and have 1800 the year after? Sure, but nobody in modern history has repeated that kind of feet. This was all on ESPN radio over the weekend (Jeremy Green's show) so thats why I pose the question. But NE39 raises a good point. Do we give Marshawn close to 400 carries to guarantee a playoff spot this year, but it cuts 5 years off his career?

[Ickybaluky]

Dickerson only had 1100 yards thats almost a 900 yard decline in production, his TD number was good, but his YPC fell by 1.8, thats a pretty big decline.

After surpassing 2,000 yards, Dickerson held out the following season. He missed all of training camp and the first 2 games, and when he reported he wasn't up to speed. Once he got his legs under him, he was the same player and finished the season strong. In fact, he rushed for a playoff-record 248 yards against Dallas in the playoffs, which makes you think he wasn't suffering from any effects of the season prior.

[Ickybaluky]

Because he will have a down year at least the next year. Could he by like Dickerson and have 1800 the year after? Sure, but nobody in modern history has repeated that kind of feet. This was all on ESPN radio over the weekend (Jeremy Green's show) so thats why I pose the question. But NE39 raises a good point. Do we give Marshawn close to 400 carries to guarantee a playoff spot this year, but it cuts 5 years off his career?

Dickerson's problem wasn't running for 2,000 yards the year prior, it missing tons of time to a holdout. Once he got back playing, he was quickly the same player.

Besides, wouldn't you expect a decline? It isn't like guys rush for 2,000 yards all the time, there are a myriad of factors that go into it. Those factors change, and you would expect a players numbers to go down the following season.

[DraftBoy]

After surpassing 2,000 yards, Dickerson held out the following season. He missed all of training camp and the first 2 games, and when he reported he wasn't up to speed. Once he got his legs under him, he was the same player and finished the season strong. In fact, he rushed for a playoff-record 248 yards against Dallas in the playoffs, which makes you think he wasn't suffering from any effects of the season prior.

You raise a good point and I can't find the game by game breakdown in 85 to support your statement (granted I have limited time to search right now) so Ill take your word for it.

[DraftBoy]

Dickerson's problem wasn't running for 2,000 yards the year prior, it missing tons of time to a holdout. Once he got back playing, he was quickly the same player.

Besides, wouldn't you expect a decline? It isn't like guys rush for 2,000 yards all the time, there are a myriad of factors that go into it. Those factors change, and you would expect a players numbers to go down the following season.

I never said I wouldn't expect a decline, all I asked was is it a risk Bills fans are willing to take with Lynch?

[Bling]

Damn, I knew the answer. :::

[FinFaninBuffalo]

No this is not some made up consequence its just what happens after a player rushes for 2000 yards. What Im asking is would you trade short term success of a playoff starved team, for a long term career with out guaranteed success??

Lets break it down;
5 players in NFL history have rushed for 2000 yards;
1973-OJ Simpson
1984-Eric Dickerson
1997-Barry Sanders
1998-Terrell Davis
2003-Jamal Lewis

Here are their stats from their record breaking years;
Simpson-332 carries, 2003 yards, 12 TD, 6.0 YPC
Dickerson-379 carries, 2105 yards, 14 TD, 5.6 YPC
Sanders-335 carries, 2053 yards, 11 TD, 6.1 YPC
Davis-392 carries, 2008 yards, 21 TD, 5.1 YPC
Lewis-387 carries, 2066 yards, 14 TD, 5.3 YPC

However here are those players stats the following year;
Simpson-270 carries, 1125 yards, 3 TD, 4.2 YPC
Dickerson-292 carries, 1234 yards, 12 TD, 4.2 YPC
Sanders-343 carries, 1491 yards, 4 TD, 4.3 YPC
Davis-67 carries, 211 yards, 2 TD, 3.1 YPC
Lewis-235 carries, 1006 yards, 7 TD, 4.3

Most players break down after a 2000 yard season and never again regain form. Only Simpson and Dickerson were ever able to eclipse the 1600 yard mark in a season again; Dickerson in 86 and 88, but he was never the same back after that, and Simpson in 75 but he tailed off after that. On the other hand Barry Sanders retired two years after his 2000 yard season and Terrell Davis 3 years after his. Also Jamal Lewis is half the back he once was and modern history does not indicate that a back can bounce back from a 2000 yard season like that.

So the question is, would you take Marshawn Lynch as a 2000 yard rusher given this risk?

I don't think 2000 yards has anything to do with it. You theory doesn't really hold true with the first 5 guys to get to 2000.

Simpson rushed for more yards with Buffalo in the 3 seasons following the 2000 yard season than in the 4 that preceeded it.

Dickerson had many productive seasons after his 2000 yard season and is in the HOF as a result.

Sanders only played one more season and it was a very typical season for him. No missed games, between 300 and 350 carries. In fact it is a remarkable season given that it was his 10th.

Davis got injured the following year. There is no way to know if it had anything to do with rushing for 2000 the year before.

Likewise Lewis got hurt the following year. Last season, he returned to the form that he displayed during his first two years.

You also have no stats about RBs that have a large number of carries and don't get to 2000 yards. There is no way to know if there is a falloff for those backs. Larry Johnson and Priest Holmes come to mind.

[Mad Bomber]

What's the penalty around here for tampering with a guy's post?
Give him a beating, Jan.

[Historian]

:couch:

My fault on posting coherent thoughts and complex rhetorical questions. Ill go back to my Draft Dungeon now...

A better thread would have been...If the Bills had won three Super Bowls, but used videotape surveilance, are the Bills Super Bowl wins tainted?

:snicker:

[DraftBoy]

A better thread would have been...If the Bills had won three Super Bowls, but used videotape surveilance, are the Bills Super Bowl wins tainted?

:snicker:

Why the answer is easy: It doesnt matter.

[TigerJ]

Because he will have a down year at least the next year. Could he by like Dickerson and have 1800 the year after? Sure, but nobody in modern history has repeated that kind of feet. This was all on ESPN radio over the weekend (Jeremy Green's show) so thats why I pose the question. But NE39 raises a good point. Do we give Marshawn close to 400 carries to guarantee a playoff spot this year, but it cuts 5 years off his career?

I don't think you head into the season with that as your plan. I think you take it a game at a time. If the only way to win a game is with 40 running plays, then I guess you do it. However, in Buffalo's case, it appears we have a viable and productive backup in Fred Jackson. If a game plan calls for extensive use of the ground game, I would certainly make ample use of Jackson. I might even give the third guy half a dozen carries.

[R. Rich]

I dont and the stats dont support that opinion, only two players in history have ever again eclipsed 1600 yards after rushing for 2000, one was Eric Dickerson on extremely young legs with little wear and tear. It took OJ 2 years to do it and prior to 73 he had never had a year of over 300 carries and had plenty of tread left on his tires. This compared to Sanders who was the oldest back to ever go for 2000 and had already had 5 seasons of over 300 carries on his legs.

Matthew, the guy ran for 1,600 yds or more only twice in his career, and that includes the 2,000 yd season. So, I guess if we're to use 1,600 yds as a standard, he's not all that as a pro RB.

Conversely, he ran for 1,300 or more yards in 9 out of his 10 seasons, a model of consistency in my opinion. He had 300 or more carries in 7 of those 9 seasons, yet he continued to produce. That, to me, does not speak volumes in regard to "wear and tear".

[DraftBoy]

Matthew, the guy ran for 1,600 yds or more only twice in his career, and that includes the 2,000 yd season. So, I guess if we're to use 1,600 yds as a standard, he's not all that as a pro RB.

Conversely, he ran for 1,300 or more yards in 9 out of his 10 seasons, a model of consistency in my opinion. He had 300 or more carries in 7 of those 9 seasons, yet he continued to produce. That, to me, does not speak volumes in regard to "wear and tear".

What are we arguing about even? When he would break the record or that he wasnt the same back? He was a step slower in 98 then he was in 97. Would he have regained that? Maybe, but I dont think so, not at his age. We are arguing about when the best RB in NFL history (arguably) would of eventually smashed the rushing record. Kind of pointless, isnt it?

[R. Rich]

Well, @ least we both realize he's one of the greatest RBs in history. That's a start.

Of course, Jim Brown is still the greatest RB of all time...

[DraftBoy]

Well, @ least we both realize he's one of the greatest RBs in history. That's a start.

Of course, Jim Brown is still the greatest RB of all time...

Im not going to argue with you there, somebody else can though.

[Jan Reimers]

Of course, Jim Brown is still the greatest RB of all time...
Looks like I won't have to smack you around now.

[R. Rich]

I'm so fortunate.

[yordad]

Yes.