Interesting stuff to duscuss

[Yasgur's Farm]

I decided to calculate what each QB did per drive to see if there can be a better comparison. Part of this is because some people on the board only point to the won loss percentage of the Bills when the QBs were starting. This is a very flawed measure because in the New England start JP was injured the first drive and in the Jets start, JP scored a majority of the points. It is also flawed because it considers the accomplishments of special teams and defense as accomplishments of either QB. While Offense and Defense may be inter-related to a degree, JP doesn't go up to Roscoe and say "Run this one back kiddo" and then Roscoe gets all fired up and runs it back. Neither does Trent go to George Wilson and say, "Get a couple of INTs for the Trentski," and then Wilson obeys. Rationally, many things that the defense and special teams accomplish is independent of what the QB is doing (this is true of offense as well, but at least Trent and JP had mostly the same offensive personnel each game and were integral to offenses functioning).

Some useful information is here. Two big gaps are the quality of Buffalo's defense and special teams play (mostly for field position) and the quality of defenses the two played (it looks to be equal aggregately, but I've only looked at PPG of defenses faced). I will probably write some stuff up on that later but I have a final to write and then moving preparations.

The stats were all accumulated from nfl.com. The drives, plays per drive, pass plays per drive, run plays per drive, scrambling first down, and any stats that are gathered from the first New England game or the second Jets game are counted from the play by play section of nfl.com. All other stats are based off of either the box scores of the games on nfl.com or the player stat pages on nfl.com.

"Drives" counts all drives the offense had a play so it doesn't include kickoff or punt returns for TDs but EVERYTHING else.

Plays count all plays from scrimmage excluding plays nullified by penalty. This is why if you add pass plays and run plays, it will not equal total plays because of field goals and punts.

A called run play for a QB (a sneak) is considered a run play while a scramble is considered a pass play. nfl.com distinguishes between the two in their play by play so the judgment call on whether a play was a designed QB run play or a scramble via decision by the QB is theirs. I did this because it gives more insight into the decision making of the coaches and QBs, whether or not they intended to call a run play or a pass play and how likely the QB is to scramble. The running yards and 1st downs from running for each QB does not follow this distinction.

All sacks, QB scrambles, and pass attempts (including the Marshawn option) are pass plays. All runs (including fake punts) and QB sneaks are run plays. Punts and Field Goals are plays but neither run nor pass.

Offensive points scored includes all points from TDs by the offense and FGs. Returns for TDs (INT, FUM, kickoff returns, punt returns) and safeties are not included.

All rate stats will be to 2 decimal places.

If you think I counted something wrong then point it out and I will eventually post my per game calculations for the numbers. I am pretty busy and I used this as a pretty extensive procrastination tool so I need to get stuff done so it may take me a while.

Have fun with this.

Total number of Drives:
Trent Edwards - 111
JP Losman - 66

Plays per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 632/111 - 5.69
JP Losman - 388/66 - 5.88

Pass Plays per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 284/111 - 2.56
JP Losman - 197/66 - 2.98

Run Plays per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 267/111 - 2.41
JP Losman - 153/66 - 2.32

Time of Possession per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 17045 sec/111 - 2:33
JP Losman - 10645 sec/66 - 2:41

Passing First Downs per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 81/111 - .73
JP Losman - 59/66 - .89

Running First Downs per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 53/111 - .48
JP Losman - 36/66 - .55

First Down per Drive (excluding Penalty):
Trent Edwards - 134/111 - 1.21
JP Losman - 95/66 - 1.44

Sacks per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 12/111 - .11
JP Losman - 14/66 - .21

Sack Yardage per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 105/111 - (.95)
JP Losman - 103/66 - (1.56)

Passing Yardage per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 1630/111 - 14.68
JP Losman - 1204/66 - 18.24

Rushing Yardage per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 1115/111 - 10.05
JP Losman - 793/66 - 12.02

QB Rushing Yardage per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 49/111 - .44
JP Losman - 110/66 - 1.67

QB Rushing 1st Down per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 4/111 - .04
JP Losman - 8/66 - .12

QB Fumbles per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 4/111 - .04
JP Losman - 5/66 - .08

QB INT per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 8/111 - .07
JP Losman - 6/66 - .09

QB Turnover per Drive (includes lost fumbles):
Trent Edwards - 8/111 - .07
JP Losman - 8/66 - .12

Passing TDs per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 7/111 - .06
JP Losman - 4/66 - .06

Rushing TDs per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 4/111 - .04
JP Losman - 4/66 - .06

Offensive Points per Drive:
Trent Edwards - 125/111 - 1.13
JP Losman - 88/66 - 1.33

17 stat categories
JP wins 11 categories
Trent wins 5 categories
1 category tied

Sounds about right... It seems even though JP has more frequent "negg plays", he still outshines Trent in just about every positive category.

[feelthepain]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

JP is a veteran Edwards was a rookie.

[hydro]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

JP is a veteran Edwards was a rookie.

/thread

[yordad]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

/thread

How does that show he was the better QB again? Did you read those figures? The figures say it all. They are cut and dry. JPs negative plays were outweight by his positive ones when compared to Trent. It is clear.

[Philagape]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

The figures say it all.

And that says it all about the pro-JP mentality.

[EDS]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

How does that show he was the better QB again? Did you read those figures? The figures say it all. They are cut and dry. JPs negative plays were outweight by his positive ones when compared to Trent. It is clear.

JP has great physical tools and all, but his head is just not there. People who know him can confirm this.

[yordad]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

And that says it all about the pro-JP mentality.

Well call it what you want. I call it the pro-Objective, pro-Bills mentality. The one who produces MORE should play MORE. What a crazy idea, huh.

[yordad]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

JP has great physical tools and all, but his head is just not there. People who know him can confirm this.

Then why did he PRODUCE more? And, isn't PRODUCTION what matters? Dan Marino was dumber then a box of rocks, but he produced.

Not that I buy that arguement anyways.

[Philagape]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

Well call it what you want. I call it the pro-Objective, pro-Bills mentality. The one who produces MORE should play MORE. What a crazy idea, huh.

Not crazy, just simple-minded.

Dan Marino was dumber then a box of rocks

Now THAT's crazy.

[Philagape]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

Then why did he PRODUCE more?

Because he didn't have to play in a blizzard and a monsoon, and he wasn't a rookie.

[EDS]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

Then why did he PRODUCE more? And, isn't PRODUCTION what matters? Dan Marino was dumber then a box of rocks, but he produced.

Not that I buy that arguement anyways.

I wish the guy the best but the light just hasn't gone on for him and I don't think it ever will.

I think the real question is why do so many Bills fans want Losman, despite his struggles, to get another chance at the expense of Edwards? Edwards may end up failing also but the Bills need to find out one way or the other and give him the same chances Losman had.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

Because he didn't have to play in a blizzard and a monsoon, and he wasn't a rookie.

Someone should keep track of the excuses in this thread... I don't count any for JP to this point...

[yordad]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

Because he didn't have to play in a blizzard and a monsoon, and he wasn't a rookie.

So.... he did produce more? I guess we should take this a few words at a time so you can't say I am twisting yours.

[yordad]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

I wish the guy the best but the light just hasn't gone on for him and I don't think it ever will.

I think the real question is why do so many Bills fans want Losman, despite his struggles, to get another chance at the expense of Edwards? Edwards may end up failing also but the Bills need to find out one way or the other and give him the same chances Losman had.

Why do I want JP given another chance? Easy question. Because he produced more. If you think TE will be better in the future.... first, I disagree; second, if he does get better then JP start him then and not before.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Interesting stuff to duscuss

Now THAT's crazy.

Actually it is not. His wonderlic was something like a 12.