Jauron cancels tomorrow's mandatory mini- camp

[OpIv37]

Per V text- no other details given.

WTF?

[DraftBoy]

He did what? That bastard!

[justasportsfan]

Sweet. Time to speculate.

[Bruce is Loose]

Maybe to give the players another day to get their story straight, or did the cops visit today?

[justasportsfan]

After a month of offseason practices in which tangible progress was made and the vast majority of the Bills roster was in attendance, head coach Dick Jauron brought his mandatory minicamp to a conclusion a day early wrapping up activities Thursday.

"Our offseason program I thought went exceptionally well," said Jauron. "We had great attendance and just decided that we'd throw them a little bone here at the end of it and not hold the last (practice). I certainly feel good about and I know they do. It was a really good offseason for us. We got a lot of work done."

The players were somewhat in the dark about the offseason practices ending a day early, but there was some talk about that possibility in the locker room.

"I had heard rumors all week, I'll leave it at that," said Trent Edwards. "We've put in a lot of hard work over the last 15 practices and I think coach understands that and realizes that and you're winning a lot of guys over by doing that and we'll be giving that to him in return by having a good training camp for him."

The players will report for the Bills Verizon Wireless Training Camp at St. John Fisher on July 24 with the first day of practices set for July 25.
http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6146

[Dr. Lecter]

http://www.unltd.org.uk/blogs/files/panic.jpg

[Michael82]

Looks like it's back to Club Dick again. Boy, Training Camp should be pretty boring this year.... :sigh: And the team will probably start out slow again. :(

[OpIv37]

I'm just pissed because this Club Jauron stuff burned us last year. The 1-4 start ruined the season early. And now the same mistakes are happening all over again.

The early part of the schedule is the easiest so this team can't mess around like the last few years. They have to go in and get some wins early so there's some room for error later on. They're not going to do that by not practicing.

[justasportsfan]

Club Dick produced players playing hard for him all season long.

[patmoran2006]

I'm just pissed because this Club Jauron stuff burned us last year. The 1-4 start ruined the season early. And now the same mistakes are happening all over again.

The early part of the schedule is the easiest so this team can't mess around like the last few years. They have to go in and get some wins early so there's some room for error later on. They're not going to do that by not practicing.
You call opening up against a playoff team in Seattle and then on to the road against the team that I think has the best chance of beating NE this year in the AFC (Jags) is the easiest part of our schedule?

If the Bills dont bring their A game they could easily be 0-2.

[OpIv37]

Club Dick produced players playing hard for him all season long.

they didn't play hard enough when we were 1-4 to start the season, including the opener against denver where we led for 59 minutes and 58 seconds before running out of gas. They weren't prepared- plain and simple- and the same mistakes are repeating themselves.

what a ridiculous premise- the players are going to get better by NOT practicing because it makes them play harder.

[LABillsFan]

Supposedly for the hard work/ great attendance they had during the OTA's can the first 2 days of camp. It just so happens the police were going to the stadium today. Cough Cough

[hydro]

One practice was cancelled. WE ARE DOOMED!

[Dr. Lecter]

You call opening up against a playoff team in Seattle and then on to the road against the team that I think has the best chance of beating NE this year in the AFC (Jags) is the easiest part of our schedule?

If the Bills dont bring their A game they could easily be 0-2.

And this relates to one practice in June, exactly how?

[HAMMER]

You call opening up against a playoff team in Seattle and then on to the road against the team that I think has the best chance of beating NE this year in the AFC (Jags) is the easiest part of our schedule?

If the Bills dont bring their A game they could easily be 0-2.

I'm with you here, why everyone thinks Seattle is an easy opener is beyond me.

[OpIv37]

One practice was cancelled. WE ARE DOOMED!

I believe this is the same response that many had when people complained about training camp being too lax last year. And you saw where that got us- a 1-4 start and 7-9 season.

[Dr. Lecter]

Looks like it's back to Club Dick again. Boy, Training Camp should be pretty boring this year.... :sigh: And the team will probably start out slow again. :(

Over-react much lately?

[BidsJr]

I'm just pissed because this Club Jauron stuff burned us last year. The 1-4 start ruined the season early. And now the same mistakes are happening all over again.

The early part of the schedule is the easiest so this team can't mess around like the last few years. They have to go in and get some wins early so there's some room for error later on. They're not going to do that by not practicing.

What ruined the season early was that we were playing with our backup QB.

[mysticsoto]

Jauron was quoted as saying that without Jason Peters, there is no team, and then proceeded to cancel minicamp and possibly will cancel TC. He also said he got email from a certain Patti poster that told him the end was near and that he should prepare for the worst. Jauron immediately canceled all summer events to work on his bunker. :D

[Dr. Lecter]

I believe this is the same response that many had when people complained about training camp being too lax last year. And you saw where that got us- a 1-4 start and 7-9 season.

Can you show me how you can prove that was the reason for the slow start?

Or was it because of JP? Or any of the other reasons that contributed to the slow start?

[OpIv37]

What ruined the season early was that we were playing with our backup QB.

well at the risk of turning this into a JP vs Trent thread, Trent really wasn't much better than JP- it's just that Trent was a rookie whereas JP has 4 years of experience. So I don't know if those games would have gone any differently with Trent instead of JP.

[justasportsfan]

Shouman is turning out to be a pleasant surprise . I know it's only OTA's :scratch:

[Jan Reimers]

Maybe the whole team was arrested for not cooperating in the Lynch investigation.

[mysticsoto]

I believe this is the same response that many had when people complained about training camp being too lax last year. And you saw where that got us- a 1-4 start and 7-9 season.

Oh yeah, and it was lax training in the TC that was the cause for our record...not the huge number of injuries we had...

[OpIv37]

Can you show me how you can prove that was the reason for the slow start?

Or was it because of JP? Or any of the other reasons that contributed to the slow start?

Can I prove it was the reason for a slow start? No. But when the team suddenly wakes up and starts playing better after 5 games, one has to at least wonder if conditioning was part of it (especially the way the D cracked in the 4th quarter).

But hey- we can do everything exactly the same as last year and just hope it miraculously ends up with different results. Makes perfect sense :up:

[LABillsFan]

Or the fact that from the get go the players were dropping like flies onto the IR list.

[OpIv37]

Oh yeah, and it was lax training in the TC that was the cause for our record...not the huge number of injuries we had...

Injuries can be caused by lack of conditioning as well. And some of those injuries came later.

[patmoran2006]

And this relates to one practice in June, exactly how?
It doesnt. I could care less about practice tommorow being cancelled. They'll spin it I'm sure. But my money says something happens with Lynch today or tommorow.

My statement was in response to his saying that the beginning is the easiest part of our schedule. It clearly is not.

[justasportsfan]

they didn't play hard enough when we were 1-4 to start the season, including the opener against denver where we led for 59 minutes and 58 seconds before running out of gas. They weren't prepared- plain and simple- and the same mistakes are repeating themselves..you mean one OTA is gonna make or break the season?


what a ridiculous premise- the players are going to get better by NOT practicing because it makes them play harder. Whatever it is that Dick does, the players respect him and play hard for him. I'll go with the players on this over your opinion.

[OpIv37]

I can't believe we're even having a discussion about this.

The team needs to improve over last year. How are they supposed to improve by NOT practicing?

[justasportsfan]

Injuries can be caused by lack of conditioning as well. And some of those injuries came later.
It sure can , but how do you know our players lack conditioning? You don't.

[Dr. Lecter]

Can I prove it was the reason for a slow start? No. But when the team suddenly wakes up and starts playing better after 5 games, one has to at least wonder if conditioning was part of it (especially the way the D cracked in the 4th quarter).

But hey- we can do everything exactly the same as last year and just hope it miraculously ends up with different results. Makes perfect sense :up:

Well that last paragraph is nothing like what I said. When did you start woring spin for Hillary or Bush?

BTW, the defense did not crack in the 4th. I'll pull the numbers again if you want me to.

[Dr. Lecter]

I can't believe we're even having a discussion about this.

The team needs to improve over last year. How are they supposed to improve by NOT practicing?

Of course they do have to practice.

I just don't know if one practice on June 13th is the difference maker.

[justasportsfan]

I can't believe we're even having a discussion about this.

The team needs to improve over last year. How are they supposed to improve by NOT practicing?
I'll leave that up to the disgression of our coaches. Not a MB poster. It's not like Dicks the only coach to ever give their players a break.

[raphael120]

Out of all the teams who deserve a day off, I just don't see why the Bills should get one. Theyre the youngest in key areas of our team and they need all the reps they can get.

If we start off slow again this year 2-3 or worse, I'll be pissed.

[OpIv37]

you mean one OTA is gonna make or break the season?
Whatever it is that Dick does, the players respect him and play hard for him. I'll go with the players on this over your opinion.

will one OTA make or break the season? Maybe, maybe not- what about 04 where one play in the first game of the season cost us a trip to the playoffs? Slightly more practice or slightly more conditioning could have made a difference. And even though that sounds a little far fetched, the fact remains that this team needs to improve and they can't improve without practicing.

The O didn't add any talent except Hardy and now they're not practicing. How exactly are they supposed to magically be better?

You'll go with the players who played themselves into a 1-4 hole? Good choice. Clearly they know what they're doing and clearly their respect for Jauron has results on the field :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

It sure can , but how do you know our players lack conditioning? You don't.

how do you know they DON'T lack conditioning? You don't. And given the number of injuries last year and the slow start, why take the chance?

[LABillsFan]

This has to be the lamest reason for debate I have seen in a long time.

[mysticsoto]

Can I prove it was the reason for a slow start? No. But when the team suddenly wakes up and starts playing better after 5 games, one has to at least wonder if conditioning was part of it (especially the way the D cracked in the 4th quarter).

But hey- we can do everything exactly the same as last year and just hope it miraculously ends up with different results. Makes perfect sense :up:

Played better after 5 games? Two of the initial games we lost were by 1 pt at the end of the game. Denver and Dallas were extremely close and don't sit there and tell me we didn't play our asses off against Dallas on that Monday night when no one was even giving us a chance at being competitive and we almost took that game against one of the top tier NFC teams!!!

[raphael120]

I honestly think it has a lot to do with all the distractions...police show up and pull a bunch of starters off the field for questioning...then Peters, etc... I just hope Jauron keeps everyone focused if this crap stays through up to the regular season.

We may have more than just 1 Bills player fingered in this whole cluster ****.

[justasportsfan]

will one OTA make or break the season? Maybe, maybe not- : So you're kicking and screaming over something you don't know? Thats the OP we all know :up:


what about 04 where one play in the first game of the season cost us a trip to the playoffs? Slightly more practice or slightly more conditioning could have made a difference. And even though that sounds a little far fetched, the fact remains that this team needs to improve and they can't improve without practicing.

The O didn't add any talent except Hardy and now they're not practicing. How exactly are they supposed to magically be better? :It wasn't one play that cost us a season. It was several plays in the course of the season.


You'll go with the players who played themselves into a 1-4 hole? Good choice. Clearly they know what they're doing and clearly their respect for Jauron has results on the field :rolleyes:
Over you? Anyday.

[justasportsfan]

I honestly think it has a lot to do with all the distractions...

We may have more than just 1 Bills player fingered in this whole cluster ****. I believe this could be the reason as well.

[OpIv37]

Played better after 5 games? Two of the initial games we lost were by 1 pt at the end of the game. Denver and Dallas were extremely close and don't sit there and tell me we didn't play our asses off against Dallas on that Monday night when no one was even giving us a chance at being competitive and we almost took that game against one of the top tier NFC teams!!!

god, this again. That game was a pathetic collapse. The D played their asses off except when it counted the most and the O didn't even show up. As far as I'm concerned, that loss is up there with the Music City Mirage and the 04 finale as the worst losses to stomach since the SB days.

[Philagape]

It's not like they have a new offense or anything ....

[Bill Brasky]

does anyone have some pillars.... because the sky is FALLING!!!!!1

[mysticsoto]

god, this again. That game was a pathetic collapse. The D played their asses off except when it counted the most and the O didn't even show up. As far as I'm concerned, that loss is up there with the Music City Mirage and the 04 finale as the worst losses to stomach since the SB days.

The loss may be hard to stomach for you, but given that you admit the D played their asses off, you can hardly credit this game as one where the players still weren't playing well...

In case you didn't notice, the O sucked for most of the year, not just this game...

[hydro]

It's not like they have a new offense or anything ....

And most of them could be home studying it. Who knows.

[OpIv37]

Seriously-

-New offensive coordinator
-30th ranked O last year
-Rookie QB who has only started a handful of games (10 I believe?)

-Three new starters on D (Stroud, Mitchell, McKelvin or James)
-Two inexperienced guys coming off of injuries (Poz and Simpson)
-31st ranked D last year

But hey, who needs practice? These guys are just going to magically get better, especially on O where no talent was added :rolleyes:

[Michael82]

It's not like they have a new offense or anything ....
:rofl: Good point! With the new offense and the young team, they need all the work they can get. The mandatory mini-camps are just a few days, why the **** do you end it a day early? :mad:

[justasportsfan]

Evans under the weather
Lee Evans was not on the field with his teammates Thursday for the final practice. The Bills top wideout was under the weather.

"Lee was sick," said Jauron. "He was all taped up and ready to come out and he just didn't feel well at all. So we just told him to stay inside."

--------------
Rookie linebacker Jon Banks was the only other player not in attendance due to the birth of his new daughter earlier this week.

-----------------

Leodis McKelvin got the majority of first team reps at left cornerback in place of Terrence McGee who was given a reduced workload for the day.


-----------

"I had heard rumors all week, I'll leave it at that," said Trent Edwards. "We've put in a lot of hard work over the last 15 practices and I think coach understands that and realizes that and you're winning a lot of guys over by doing that and we'll be giving that to him in return by having a good training camp for him."


----------

Add Peters , Lynch situation etc.etc.

[Dr. Lecter]

god, this again. That game was a pathetic collapse. The D played their asses off except when it counted the most and the O didn't even show up. As far as I'm concerned, that loss is up there with the Music City Mirage and the 04 finale as the worst losses to stomach since the SB days.

The defense gave up 0-10-3-12 points. Not a totally 4th quarter collapse, especially when you consider it was a badly botched Special Teams play that gave Dallas an extra possesion (and a bad play call, as admitted by Fewell)

It was hardly an issue on conditioning.

And if you mention Denver that was 3-3-6-3.

Your theory on the defense failing in the 4th has been shot down and disproven numerous times. It did not happen when one uses facts and actual data.

[Jan Reimers]

You can argue the too hard/too easy camp thing forever, because there is no right answer.

Some think if you work them too hard, you risk injury and having them tired and beat up before the season ever starts. Others feel that the harder you work them, the sharper and tougher they'll be.

Like so much of what we argue about on here, there is no factual answer. It's all opinion.

[justasportsfan]

:rofl: Good point! With the new offense and the young team, they need all the work they can get. The mandatory mini-camps are just a few days, why the **** do you end it a day early? :mad:
I think Dick wanted them to relax and enjoy themselves at Chippewa . Don't worry, some of them will just order pop.

[Dr. Lecter]

You can argue the too hard/too easy camp thing forever, because there is no right answer.

Some think if you work them too hard, you risk injury and having them tired and beat up before the season ever starts. Others feel that the harder you work them, the sharper and tougher they'll be.

Like so much of what we argue about on here, there is no factual answer. It's all opinion.

I can imagine the response if they practiced hard tomorrow and Lynch/Evans/Poz/Stroud blew out a knee.........

[Michael82]

Let's just hope that they bring the two-a-days back to training camp this year or this team will start out slow out of the gate for a 3rd year in a row. :ill:

[mysticsoto]

You can argue the too hard/too easy camp thing forever, because there is no right answer.

Some think if you work them too hard, you risk injury and having them tired and beat up before the season ever starts. Others feel that the harder you work them, the sharper and tougher they'll be.

Like so much of what we argue about on here, there is no factual answer. It's all opinion.

Agreed. Just look at the injury status around the league. Already many are hurt and the season hasn't even started.

Training is not over Op. There still TC and preseason games also. Maybe Jauron promised them a day off if they worked hard and they met his criteria...

[OpIv37]

The defense gave up 0-10-3-12 points. Not a totally 4th quarter collapse, especially when you consider it was a badly botched Special Teams play that gave Dallas an extra possesion (and a bad play call, as admitted by Fewell)

It was hardly an issue on conditioning.

And if you mention Denver that was 3-3-6-3.

Your theory on the defense failing in the 4th has been shot down and disproven numerous times. It did not happen when one uses facts and actual data.

and that proves what exactly?

Against Denver and Dallas they couldn't stop them on the final drive. It's not a theory- it's fact. All they needed was one more play and they couldn't do it.

And just because the collapses didn't happen in the 4th quarter doesn't mean the D was properly conditioned.

[patmoran2006]

does anyone have some pillars.... because the sky is FALLING!!!!!1
Dude, I like reading your post, and on THIS TOPIC I agree with you.

But that statement really bothers me. As a football fan, if this team doesnt make more leaps and bounds this year, then YES, the "sky is falling" in regards to football terms.

[OpIv37]

You can argue the too hard/too easy camp thing forever, because there is no right answer.

Some think if you work them too hard, you risk injury and having them tired and beat up before the season ever starts. Others feel that the harder you work them, the sharper and tougher they'll be.

Like so much of what we argue about on here, there is no factual answer. It's all opinion.

yet, last year we had an easy camp and still had a ton of injuries and they still were too tired. The way we did it last year didn't work, so why the hell are we repeating it?

[shelby]

merged

And Doc, i am going to kick your ass for bringing JP's name into the discussion.

[justasportsfan]

and that proves what exactly?

Against Denver and Dallas they couldn't stop them on the final drive. It's not a theory- it's fact. All they needed was one more play and they couldn't do it.

And just because the collapses didn't happen in the 4th quarter doesn't mean the D was properly conditioned.

Against Dalas we lost because Fewell called the wrong scheme.

against Dallas we should've never even had a chance to beat them to begin with. Our players played their hearts outs only to lose because of Fewell.

[Dr. Lecter]

merged

And Doc, i am going to kick your ass for bringing JP's name into the discussion.

:sorry:

trying to show the absurdity of the argument. :couch:

[OpIv37]

Against Dalas we lost because Fewell called the wrong scheme.

against Dallas we should've never even had a chance to beat them to begin with. Our players played their hearts outs only to lose because of Fewell.

really? The zero touchdowns by the O is playing their hearts out? You need to work on your definition of "heart"

[Philagape]

Dude, I like reading your post, and on THIS TOPIC I agree with you.

But that statement really bothers me. As a football fan, if this team doesnt make more leaps and bounds this year, then YES, the "sky is falling" in regards to football terms.

Good point ... the sky falling is the status quo, or even one game better.

[Dr. Lecter]

really? The zero touchdowns by the O is playing their hearts out? You need to work on your definition of "heart"

I thought they lost the game because the defense failed, not because of the offense?

[OpIv37]

:sorry:

trying to show the absurdity of the argument. :couch:

the absurdity is that we didn't add any talent to the O, we have all kinds of new/inexperienced players on D and people still think it's acceptable to skip practices.

[OpIv37]

I thought they lost the game because the defense failed, not because of the offense?

I didn't say that- I said the O didn't play with heart. They were pathetic that game, just like I said in all my posts about the Dallas game.

[Dr. Lecter]

the absurdity is that we didn't add any talent to the O, we have all kinds of new/inexperienced players on D and people still think it's acceptable to skip practices.

No, absurdity is somebody or some people having a panic attack over canceling one practice in June, when they don't the reason why or thinking the current practices are significant or have any actual impact in September.

Especially when some of the most critical players (Evans, Peters, Lynch) are not or might not be available.

[Night Train]

I heard there was a hit and run incident with one of the golf carts.

[patmoran2006]

We lost the Dallas game because of either Fairchild or Jauron, whomever it was that called the ill-fated pass play with the lead in the 4th quarter that was intercepted by Dallas. That's when the game was loss.

As far as Fewel's scheme losing the game.. Are you serious? Didnt we have like 5 interceptions and 2 TD's from our defense that game?

[OpIv37]

No, absurdity is somebody or some people having a panic attack over canceling one practice in June, when they don't the reason why or thinking the current practices are significant or have any actual impact in September.

Especially when some of the most critical players (Evans, Peters, Lynch) are not or might not be available.

Really? Well if the current practices don't have any impact in September, why have them at all? If they're mandatory and the coaches hold them and the players agreed to them in the CBA, clearly there is some value to it.

And really, those 3 guys aren't the only people on the team. They have to practice to improve. Period. This is a continuation of a trend from last year's training camp that had bad results.

[Dr. Lecter]

We lost the Dallas game because of either Fairchild or Jauron, whomever it was that called the ill-fated pass play with the lead in the 4th quarter that was intercepted by Dallas. That's when the game was loss.

As far as Fewel's scheme losing the game.. Are you serious? Didnt we have like 5 interceptions and 2 TD's from our defense that game?

Fewell himself admited that his play calling on the last drive was too timid and let Dallas get into FG position.

[justasportsfan]

really? The zero touchdowns by the O is playing their hearts out? You need to work on your definition of "heart"
Wow, this was Trent starting. A rookie. He was at camp all season long. Lack of practice didn't lose us that game. We just didn't have the personell to match the cowboys yet we almost pulled it off. Again, we lost because of Fewell.

He admitted it, he apologized to the team for that loss.

I have to work on my definition of heart ? Coming from "I give up before a shot is fired " I don't think so Mr. The Sky is falling. :roflmao:

[Dr. Lecter]

Really? Well if the current practices don't have any impact in September, why have them at all? If they're mandatory and the coaches hold them and the players agreed to them in the CBA, clearly there is some value to it.

And really, those 3 guys aren't the only people on the team. They have to practice to improve. Period. This is a continuation of a trend from last year's training camp that had bad results.

OK, it is minimal impact. They hold the practices to see where youg guys are in development and start intorducing new schemes.

Point it is, it is one practice in June. Not a reason to get overly worried.

[justasportsfan]

Fewell himself admited that his play calling on the last drive was too timid and let Dallas get into FG position.

Our sources seems to be richer.

[OpIv37]

OK, it is minimal impact. They hold the practices to see where youg guys are in development and start intorducing new schemes.

Point it is, it is one practice in June. Not a reason to get overly worried.

Point is, this team needs all the practice they can get.

Point is, Jauron went easy on them in camp last year and it didn't work. Point is Jauron is still canceling practices, so what makes you think it will be different when camp gets here? And given that, what makes you think the results will be any different on the field when we're preparing the same way and didnt' add any talent to the O?

[mysticsoto]

Really? Well if the current practices don't have any impact in September, why have them at all? If they're mandatory and the coaches hold them and the players agreed to them in the CBA, clearly there is some value to it.

And really, those 3 guys aren't the only people on the team. They have to practice to improve. Period. This is a continuation of a trend from last year's training camp that had bad results.
It's not that practicing doesn't have an impact - clearly it is important. But 1 day off doesn't mean the Bills will be horrible this year either. As I said, maybe Jauron promised them a day off if they worked hard and maybe they did. You don't know. Maybe Jauron saw promising signs of improvement and felt a day off would benefit all to get extra rest. It could be anything? Maybe half the coaches were sick and he felt, rather than give it to the players, a day off would be better warranted. Whatever the reason, why don't we wait to hear it before your usual jumping to conclusions ranting and ravings?

[justasportsfan]

Whatever the reason, why don't we wait to hear it before your usual jumping to conclusions ranting and ravings?


Wait and see only applies whether it coincides with OP's opinion.

[OpIv37]

It's not that practicing doesn't have an impact - clearly it is important. But 1 day off doesn't mean the Bills will be horrible this year either. As I said, maybe Jauron promised them a day off if they worked hard and maybe they did. You don't know. Maybe Jauron saw promising signs of improvement and felt a day off would benefit all to get extra rest. It could be anything? Maybe half the coaches were sick and he felt, rather than give it to the players, a day off would be better warranted. Whatever the reason, why don't we wait to hear it before your usual jumping to conclusions ranting and ravings?

Who cares what the reason is?

I don't care if God himself came to Jauron in a dream and told him to cancel practice. The team will not get better without practicing, especially since we didn't add any talent to the O.

So we can sit here and make excuses about rewards or promising signs or coaches being sick or whatever, but at the end of the day, less practice does not make the team better.

[hydro]

I like to think of it this way.

I played football and many other sports in high school (I can tell some here haven't). It is all about morale. I can remember times where our monday practice was cancelled when we won on saturday. Everyones morale at that moment skyrocketed and you can tell the difference it makes that week of practice. The team is in a good mood and things get done.

The times after losses when we didn't get that day off, we usually ran a lot which wasn't productive and only lowered morale.

If Dick Jauron feels his team has made enough progress in these OTAs to warrant a day off who are we to ***** about it? You have not stepped foot on that practice field once and to think you have a better idea of what kind of overall condition this team is in is just assinine. If anything he has won these players over with this decision which will result in a team with a morale in the right place for TC.

[OpIv37]

I like to think of it this way.

I played football and many other sports in high school (I can tell some here haven't). It is all about morale. I can remember times where our monday practice was cancelled when we won on saturday. Everyones morale at that moment skyrocketed and you can tell the difference it makes that week of practice. The team is in a good mood and things get done.

The times after losses when we didn't get that day off, we usually ran a lot which wasn't productive and only lowered morale.

If Dick Jauron feels his team has made enough progress in these OTAs to warrant a day off who are we to ***** about it? You have not stepped foot on that practice field once and to think you have a better idea of what kind of overall condition this team is in is just assinine. If anything he has won these players over with this decision which will result in a team with a morale in the right place for TC.

If practice in June doesn't lead to results in September, how is morale in June going to lead to results in September?

The team was raving about Jauron during TC last year and even in his first year. The team was in a good mood and didn't get things done. Morale helps but it doesn't create wins on it's own- it needs talent and repetitions to go with it.

[hydro]

If practice in June doesn't lead to results in September, how is morale in June going to lead to results in September?

Boy you walked right into that one. How does missing this ONE practice lead to poor results in September?

The team was raving about Jauron during TC last year and even in his first year. The team was in a good mood and didn't get things done. Morale helps but it doesn't create wins on it's own- it needs talent and repetitions to go with it.

[OpIv37]

Boy you walked right into that one. How does missing this ONE practice lead to poor results in September?

Huh? Lecter and others said one practice doesn't make a difference- I was playing off of that. If the practice doesn't make a difference this early, neither does morale.

And I don't agree at all that a practice in June doesn't make a difference. This team needs all the practice it can get to improve.

[Dr. Lecter]

Coach Dick Jauron canceled Friday's planned workout. The team said the move had nothing to do with the police investigation. Jauron said he was giving the players a perk for their strong attendance at workouts all offseason.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/368141.html

There is more in the article than that line (dealing mainly with Lynch), but if the day off was a way to get more players to attend more of the voluntary practices and to award them for doing so, the trade-off might very well be worth it.

[OpIv37]

yeah, who needs talent when we have youth?

who needs practice when we have morale?

there's a reason why this team can't win a damn thing....

[mysticsoto]

Who cares what the reason is?

I don't care if God himself came to Jauron in a dream and told him to cancel practice. The team will not get better without practicing, especially since we didn't add any talent to the O.

So we can sit here and make excuses about rewards or promising signs or coaches being sick or whatever, but at the end of the day, less practice does not make the team better.
I don't have time to deal with your hyperventilation, Op. Less practice cannot make the team better, but rest can. If the team was starting to show wear and tear b'cse of all the work they had been putting in. Remember that the rookies have been there for longer in the OTAs.

But it doesn't matter what anyone says b'cse you will be set in your ways and will criticize it like the soccer mom you flipped off b'cse she didn't meet the speed you wanted to drive at, or the cops in VA, or the hot weather and traffic in your area, etc, etc. You get stuck in your complaining ways and often can't see the big picture. B'cse of that, you become an alarmist. Sit down and relax a little bit. It's way too early for you to be getting worked up already. Don't you remember your overreaction to JP's slight injury last year before TC started?

[OpIv37]

I don't have time to deal with your hyperventilation, Op. Less practice cannot make the team better, but rest can. If the team was starting to show wear and tear b'cse of all the work they had been putting in. Remember that the rookies have been there for longer in the OTAs.

But it doesn't matter what anyone says b'cse you will be set in your ways and will criticize it like the soccer mom you flipped off b'cse she didn't meet the speed you wanted to drive at, or the cops in VA, or the hot weather and traffic in your area, etc, etc. You get stuck in your complaining ways and often can't see the big picture. B'cse of that, you become an alarmist. Sit down and relax a little bit. It's way too early for you to be getting worked up already. Don't you remember your overreaction to JP's slight injury last year before TC started?

it's ****ing JUNE. They just had like 4+ months to rest and camp doesn't even start for another 2 months. How much ****ing rest do they need? These guys are supposed to be professional athletes. How are they going to survive a 17 week season if they can't get through a week of practices (or 3 weeks for the rookies- whatever)?

I'm going to ignore all that other stuff because it has nothing to do with this conversation.

[justasportsfan]

If practice in June doesn't lead to results in September, how is morale in June going to lead to results in September?

The team was raving about Jauron during TC last year and even in his first year. The team was in a good mood and didn't get things done. Morale helps but it doesn't create wins on it's own- it needs talent and repetitions to go with it.
we couldn't get things done because of lack of talent. INspite of the lack of talent, the ones we had was injured and yet the players we had left and the ones we brought in from the streets still played their hearts out.

[justasportsfan]

And I don't agree at all that a practice in June doesn't make a difference. This team needs all the practice it can get to improve.


Not all the time. Remember Jimmy Johnson HARD camp that always got the fins strong at start of the season that usually ended in late season December collapses? They were also often injured towards the end of the year. The fins were often burned out.

There's also Parcells hard/strict love that resulted in nothing in Dallas but later produced better results with a laid back Wade Philipps.

What I'm trying to say is that it's up to the coach based on what they've seen in OTA's to decide whether they don't want the players getting burned out.

[OpIv37]

Not all the time. Remember Jimmy Johnson HARD camp that always got the fins strong at start of the season that usually ended in late season December collapses? They were also often injured towards the end of the year. The fins were often burned out.

There's also Parcells hard/strict love that resulted in nothing in Dallas but later produced better results with a laid back Wade Philipps.

What I'm trying to say is that it's up to the coach based on what they've seen in OTA's to decide whether they don't want the players getting burned out.

well Jauron made the wrong call on that in TC last year and I don't trust him to make the right call now.

We STILL had a ton of injuries and STILL had a late season collapse (we lost our last 4 games, remember?)

Also, it's hyperbole to suggest that a practice in June will lead to a December collapse.

[justasportsfan]

well Jauron made the wrong call on that in TC last year and I don't trust him to make the right call now.

We STILL had a ton of injuries and STILL had a late season collapse (we lost our last 4 games, remember?) .

I blame lack of talent for our season collapse last year . Everyone else in the league saw what this team did inspite of all the injuries. From 1st to 3rd string They played hard for Dick. We were still hiring people off the streets post mid season.



Also, it's hyperbole to suggest that a practice in June will lead to a December collapse. But missing one OTA's will lead to september woes?

When it happens on a regular basis which it did for the fins, you have to wonder. Especially in Fla.


I will not question Dicks approach of making them play hard for him. Jus tlike I won't question Club MArv.

[Typ0]

having the cops hanging around at practice is not a good thing...practice cancelled.

[OpIv37]

I blame lack of talent for our season collapse last year . Everyone else in the league saw what this team did inspite of all the injuries. From 1st to 3rd string They played hard for Dick.



But missing one OTA's will lead to september woes?

When it happens on a regular basis which it did for the fins, you have to wonder. Especially in Fla.


I will not question Dicks approach of making them play hard for him. Jus tlike I won't question Club MArv.

you should question it because so far it hasn't created wins.

[shelby]

having the cops hanging around at practice is not a good thing...practice cancelled.
i think that sums it up nicely.

[Stoneludlow]

These were the OTAs, which I understand are optional--the whole team need not report, as they do if it had been pre-season training camp.

Can only hope that Marshawn's problems don't become the distraction or excuse for a poor start.

[OpIv37]

These were the OTAs, which I understand are optional--the whole team need not report, as they do if it had been pre-season training camp.

Can only hope that Marshawn's problems don't become the distraction or excuse for a poor start.

actually this week's practices were mandatory- hence Peters' fine.

[Stoneludlow]

actually this week's practices were mandatory- hence Peters' fine.

Thanks for the clear-up, so then they should still practice tomorrow & Jauron is only thinking about the distraction caused by:

Buffalo Bills' players to go to Grand Jury in connection to Marshawn Lynch.

[Captain gameboy]

Are you guys serious?

Do you not think that Jauron and his staff know whats best for this team?

Does anyone here really believe they know better.

I'm flying from Washington to Chicago to Buenos Aires tomorrow.

What a fool I'd be by not consulting the experts here on decisions relevant to that trip.

[OpIv37]

Are you guys serious?

Do you not think that Jauron and his staff know whats best for this team?

Does anyone here really believe they know better.

I'm flying from Washington to Chicago to Buenos Aires tomorrow.

What a fool I'd be by not consulting the experts here on decisions relevant to that trip.

based on what Jauron has done in the past, no, I really don't think he knows what's best for the team. Last year's training camp was relaxed, and yet we STILL had a ton of injuries and STILL had a late season collapse. It was the worst of both worlds- the players weren't prepared OR rested. If you need more evidence, his record (both here and in Chicago) speaks for itself.

We don't add talent (well, not on O) but we're still supposed to improve. We don't practice but we're still supposed to improve. How exactly are all these young guys supposed to get better? Playing Madden on their day off?

If you want to say that I don't know what's best for the team or someone else on this message board doesn't know what's best for the team, fine- we're not there so it's a perfectly fair statement. But to assume Jauron knows what's best- especially after he's made similar mistakes in the past- is poor judgement.

[Captain gameboy]

I think Jauron is an amazingly conservative guy who knows whats best for the team.

Far, far, far more than anyone on this site.

I don't think anyone on this site has the remotest clue regarding these decisions, and I think it is incredibly foolish to assume anyone does, and it is idiotic to assume that any injury was training camp related.

Wacky, with all due respect.

[OpIv37]

I think Jauron is an amazingly conservative guy who knows whats best for the team.

Far, far, far more than anyone on this site.

I don't think anyone on this site has the remotest clue regarding these decisions, and I think it is incredibly foolish to assume anyone does.

I think it's incredibly foolish to assume Jauron knows what's best for the team when he has yet to produce results here, in Detroit or in Chicago.

[Captain gameboy]

Then I think you should put your name in the hat.

[OpIv37]

Then I think you should put your name in the hat.

you still don't get it.

Just because no one here knows what's going on with the team does NOT make Jauron competent. Results dictate competence, not title. And Jauron has yet to show results.

You're a pilot. If a new pilot crash landed in a training simulator in 9 out of 10 tries, would you get in a real plane with him at the controls?

It's the same thing- Jauron has yet to show the ability to make these decisions correctly, yet you have confidence in his ability just because Ralph and Marv were dumb enough to put "Coach" in front of his name (just like Coach Mularkey and Coach Williams....).

[Captain gameboy]

you still don't get it.

Just because no one here knows what's going on with the team does NOT make Jauron competent. Results dictate competence, not title. And Jauron has yet to show results.

You're a pilot. If a new pilot crash landed in a training simulator in 9 out of 10 tries, would you get in a real plane with him at the controls?

It's the same thing- Jauron has yet to show the ability to make these decisions correctly, yet you have confidence in his ability just because Ralph and Marv were dumb enough to put "Coach" in front of his name (just like Coach Mularkey and Coach Williams....).

You are right.

I don't get it.

You do.

You should be the State's Attorney for Virginia, the head coach and GM of the Buffalo Bills, the head of the TSA and responsible for everything related to airline traffic.

Additionally, your thoughts should be the end view of everything related to things that blow up, regardless of the fact that you have represented a total ignorance of these issues, and how people should react to them, since you are expert in all things related.

In your spare time, you should advise on parenting.

[John Doe]

A team has to practice to get better.

A team does not have to practice every day to get better.

[OpIv37]

You are right.

I don't get it.

You do.

You should be the State's Attorney for Virginia, the head coach and GM of the Buffalo Bills, the head of the TSA and responsible for everything related to airline traffic.

Additionally, your thoughts should be the end view of everything related to things that blow up, regardless of the fact that you have represented a total ignorance of these issues, and how people should react to them, since you are expert in all things related.

In your spare time, you should advise on parenting.

oh really? Are you a Venezuelan politician? Or did you at least major in Latin American studies? If not, you better keep your mouth shut on Venezuelan politics in the future. And I usually agree with your Venezuela stuff, but it's not important since you're not qualified to comment by your own standard.

Oh hell, forget about that. Just shut this message board down. Few people here have any real football experience and no one here is associated with the Bills in any formal way. Therefore, according to you they are not entitled to an opinion. No one is unless they have some sort of formal title to "prove" they're an expert. So, what's the point of having a forum for discussion when no one who posts in it is qualified to discuss the topic at hand?

It's ignorance to say Jauron hasn't gotten results? Give me a ****ing break.

[Captain gameboy]

Are you out of your mind?

What the heck does this have to do with Venezuela?

Oh. I get it.

My complaint about you is that your unreasonable comments about things you are ignorant of somehow relates to me being ignorant about Venezuela.

I've got it now.

If you think I am, no problem here.

[mikemac2001]

oh really? Are you a Venezuelan politician? Or did you at least major in Latin American studies? If not, you better keep your mouth shut on Venezuelan politics in the future. And I usually agree with your Venezuela stuff, but it's not important since you're not qualified to comment by your own standard.

Oh hell, forget about that. Just shut this message board down. Few people here have any real football experience and no one here is associated with the Bills in any formal way. Therefore, according to you they are not entitled to an opinion. No one is unless they have some sort of formal title to "prove" they're an expert. So, what's the point of having a forum for discussion when no one who posts in it is qualified to discuss the topic at hand?

It's ignorance to say Jauron hasn't gotten results? Give me a ****ing break.



Hey watch it bud, i play madden i got football experience

[OpIv37]

A team has to practice to get better.

A team does not have to practice every day to get better.

Very true.

However you're forgetting a key piece.

The CBA only provides for a limited number of off-season practice opportunities, and Jauron just pissed one of those opportunities away.

[OpIv37]

Are you out of your mind?

What the heck does this have to do with Venezuela?

Oh. I get it.

My complaint about you is that your unreasonable comments about things you are ignorant of somehow relates to me being ignorant about Venezuela.

I've got it now.

If you think I am, no problem here.

No, you're accusing me of being ignorant because I don't have some sort of title with TSA or VA or the Buffalo Bills and because I don't agree with you.

And you're wrong.

You attack every issue like your knowledge is so superior to everyone else's, yet you never share that knowledge or where you get it. You simply talk down to everyone else and it's irritating.

But I digress. This conversation is supposed to be about the Bills wasting practice opportunities and not your attitude or my attitude.

[Captain gameboy]

Very true.

However you're forgetting a key piece.

The CBA only provides for a limited number of off-season practice opportunities, and Jauron just pissed one of those opportunities away.

And very likely for reasons that make very good sense, and were not made in a vacuum.

Just an ignorant view.

[Losman4Life]

He might as well cancel the season too because we are going nowhere with a bunch of convicted felons. This team is a f****n joke!

[OpIv37]

And very likely for reasons that make very good sense, and were not made in a vacuum.

Just an ignorant view.

yeah, it's ignorant to think practice makes the team better and it's ignorant to think that a relaxed practice atmosphere at camp last year created problems for this team :rolleyes:

you have faith in Jauron's reasoning (that you don't even know) despite his complete lack of ability to get results. That's ignorance.

[mikemac2001]

yeah, it's ignorant to think practice makes the team better and it's ignorant to think that a relaxed practice atmosphere at camp last year created problems for this team :rolleyes:

you have faith in Jauron's reasoning (that you don't even know) despite his complete lack of ability to get results. That's ignorance.


I think he has done a somewhat decent job with the team....last year we did have alot of injuries and have had a young team, i feel we are headed in the right directions the problem does come with jauron is he gonna make this team better or are they gonna plateau i think this year will tell us....so please opiv if you don't like jauren because of his past let it go....i think he has made some good decisions with some bad ones here.

[Captain gameboy]

Then I am ignorant.

No problem admitting it.

Why you have not been discovered by the state of Virginia, the Buffalo Bills, Homeland Security, the multi billion dollar airline industry, of any number of other organizations that you could run better is beyond me.

Perhaps..... because I am ignorant.

[Captain gameboy]

No, you're accusing me of being ignorant because I don't have some sort of title with TSA or VA or the Buffalo Bills and because I don't agree with you.

And you're wrong.

You attack every issue like your knowledge is so superior to everyone else's, yet you never share that knowledge or where you get it. You simply talk down to everyone else and it's irritating.



Wrong.

One cannot "attack an issue" asserting knowledge that is superior.

What can be done is present information and assert that decisions are made from that information.

What you do, and you are not alone, and what pisses me off about your posts, is that you assert that you are smarter than the people who make these decisions, and that their decisions are not valid.

What you do, is claim that you are smarter than they are.

That is offensive to people who have knowledge regarding those decisions, and how they came about.

Reasonable people can come to different conclusions.

Reasonable people do not assume that people who disagree with them are stupid.

By your posts, you seem to come to that conclusion, and I strongly disagree with that.

[hydro]

:goodpost:

[OpIv37]

Wrong.

One cannot "attack an issue" asserting knowledge that is superior.

What can be done is present information and assert that decisions are made from that information.

What you do, and you are not alone, and what pisses me off about your posts, is that you assert that you are smarter than the people who make these decisions, and that their decisions are not valid.

What you do, is claim that you are smarter than they are.

That is offensive to people who have knowledge regarding those decisions, and how they came about.

Reasonable people can come to different conclusions.

Reasonable people do not assume that people who disagree with them are stupid.

By your posts, you seem to come to that conclusion, and I strongly disagree with that.

you are basing your whole line of thought on a faulty assumption: that I'm assuming I'm smarter. Whether or not I'm smarter than Jauron or TSA or the state of VA has nothing to do with the fact that they're not doing their jobs correctly. It doesn't take a genius to see that TSA lines are inefficient and ineffective, it doesn't take a genius to see that VA's draconian traffic laws are all about revenue, and it doesn't take a genius to see that Jauron's overall coaching record is horrendous (one winning season out of 7, never had a D in the top 10) and that he's made some questionable decisions.

The decisions of Jauron and these other people do not lead to results. Simply pointing that out does not mean I am asserting that I am smarter. It's no different than you criticizing Chavez- when you do that, are you presuming you are smarter than him and can run the country better?

I am not willing to assume title dictates competence. I am not willing to sit back and tolerate lack of results simply because whoever made the decision is smarter than me or may know more about an issue than I do. Someone else's knowledge does not automatically make them right. I don't know why you can't grasp that concept.

You may be willing to sit back and say "he's smart or he has a title, so I'm just going to accept whatever he does." And you may be willing to continue to say that even when the person makes stupid decisions and doesn't get results. I'm not willing to stand in line at the airport for hours because "TSA MUST know what they're doing". I'm not willing to pay $1500 speeding tickets because the state government "must know what it's doing" and I'm not willing to sit through losing seasons because "he's the coach and he MUST know what he's doing."

You can sit there and take that crap but I won't.

[djjimkelly]

maybe DICK is gonna do us all a favour and quit

[shelby]

Realistically speaking, with the cops showing up at practice yesterday and turning the whole thing into a media circus, Jauron made the right call. The players and the FO are distracted.

Marshawn's got some 'splainin' to do.

[Jan Reimers]

I think the resolution of Marshawn's issue, as well Peters' and Evans' contracts, will have a huge impact on the season.

The cancellation of one practice session in June will have zero impact.

[Typ0]

I agree with OP. People, qualified people, could tell me DJ knows what he's doing until they are blue in the face and it is nothing but talk. DJ needs to produce. Show me the money. Put up or shut up.

[Typ0]

I think the resolution of Marshawn's issue, as well Peters' and Evans' contracts, will have a huge impact on the season.

The cancellation of one practice session in June will have zero impact.

Or the lack of resolution will have a huge impact on the season...which is why cancelling the practice has a positive impact any way you look at it.

[billsburgh]

These werent even real practices. It was football in shorts without pads. No hitting. I really dont think missing 1 pracitce where they're not really playing football is going to make a difference 3 months from now

[mysticsoto]

it's ****ing JUNE. They just had like 4+ months to rest and camp doesn't even start for another 2 months. How much ****ing rest do they need? These guys are supposed to be professional athletes. How are they going to survive a 17 week season if they can't get through a week of practices (or 3 weeks for the rookies- whatever)?

I'm going to ignore all that other stuff because it has nothing to do with this conversation.

Op, they have not had 4+ months to rest, a good portion of the players have been there for a month already in the OTAs. They are probably the ones that need the most work and they got that work. Giving them 1 day off is not the end of the world like you are trying to make it seem. As other posters have commented, morale boosting can be important and it may even be that Jauron wants his players to know that if you put the time in OTAs/voluntary workouts like so many did, when it comes to mandatory camps, he'll reward you.

Your criticism of Jauron's record is valid, and he should be judged based on what happens this season - although with season tickets being sold at near record levels, it would appear the fans are happy with him and what he is doing here. But to say that 1 day off is going to cause a collapse of play this season is completely absurd...

[superbills]

based on what Jauron has done in the past, no, I really don't think he knows what's best for the team. Last year's training camp was relaxed, and yet we STILL had a ton of injuries and STILL had a late season collapse. It was the worst of both worlds- the players weren't prepared OR rested. If you need more evidence, his record (both here and in Chicago) speaks for itself.

We don't add talent (well, not on O) but we're still supposed to improve. We don't practice but we're still supposed to improve. How exactly are all these young guys supposed to get better? Playing Madden on their day off?

If you want to say that I don't know what's best for the team or someone else on this message board doesn't know what's best for the team, fine- we're not there so it's a perfectly fair statement. But to assume Jauron knows what's best- especially after he's made similar mistakes in the past- is poor judgement.

Didn't add talent huh? So, James hardy will have zero effect on our ability to produce in the red zone. Steve Johnson despite showing his ability to be a ball-hawk, not to mention being another tall target for Trent to throw to will also have no impact. Also, these two "ineffective" players will have no effect on helping Lee Evans find more open space. Someone please tell me what freakish dimension I just walked in to.

The point is that Jauron is very happy that, with very few exceptions, attendance at the OTA's was stellar. They got just as much work done in the voluntary OTA's as they would have in the mandatory practices because everyone was there who needed to be.

Perhaps you've never heard of project planning. Or having an agenda. You set out with a certain set of goals in mind and once you achieve them the project or milestone is considered complete. Think of the whole season as a project. The OTAs/minicamp are one milestone. Training camp is another. Regular season another, and so on. Once you achieve your goals and meet the requirements of that section of the project, it's time to move on. My guess is, based on common sense rather than irrational fear, that DJ and the staff felt that the players met the expectations of what they hoped to see from the set of practices that comprised the OTA's and minicamp. Thus, they rewarded their players for the hard work and dedication by having a day off. Oh God. Not a day off. Let's work them till their cleats are fused to their feet.

This inane argument that we have no talent and our coaches are idiots is just more of the same whiners' garbage that we hear over and over again. Let's get over ourselves and enjoy what's looking to be a team showing progress and save the doomsday prophesies to the nuts on the streets.

[OpIv37]

Didn't add talent huh? So, James hardy will have zero effect on our ability to produce in the red zone. Steve Johnson despite showing his ability to be a ball-hawk, not to mention being another tall target for Trent to throw to will also have no impact. Also, these two "ineffective" players will have no effect on helping Lee Evans find more open space. Someone please tell me what freakish dimension I just walked in to.

The point is that Jauron is very happy that, with very few exceptions, attendance at the OTA's was stellar. They got just as much work done in the voluntary OTA's as they would have in the mandatory practices because everyone was there who needed to be.

Perhaps you've never heard of project planning. Or having an agenda. You set out with a certain set of goals in mind and once you achieve them the project or milestone is considered complete. Think of the whole season as a project. The OTAs/minicamp are one milestone. Training camp is another. Regular season another, and so on. Once you achieve your goals and meet the requirements of that section of the project, it's time to move on. My guess is, based on common sense rather than irrational fear, that DJ and the staff felt that the players met the expectations of what they hoped to see from the set of practices that comprised the OTA's and minicamp. Thus, they rewarded their players for the hard work and dedication by having a day off. Oh God. Not a day off. Let's work them till their cleats are fused to their feet.

This inane argument that we have no talent and our coaches are idiots is just more of the same whiners' garbage that we hear over and over again. Let's get over ourselves and enjoy what's looking to be a team showing progress and save the doomsday prophesies to the nuts on the streets.

I'm very familiar with project planning. It's an entirely different concept because in project planning, once a task is complete, there is no reason to do it over. But when you're practicing sports or music or acting or anything else, REPITITIONS are the key.

They've just had several months off. They have several more before TC. One extra day of practice is NOT going to overwork them. That's just ridiculous.

As far as Hardy and Johnson, well, Johnson probably won't even see the field unless there's an injury or a 5 receiver set. And have you looked at the impact of rookie WR's in their first season? It's minimal at best. And we were the 30th ranked O. If you honestly think that we added enough talent to this offense with Hardy alone, you're just fooling yourself. One rookie WR is NOT going to make this offense good, or even mediocre for that matter.

As far as what DJ and the staff feel, so what? First of all, it's just your guess- you even admit that you don't know what their reason is. Second, these guys have yet to produce results in Buffalo or anywhere else. Trusting their judgment is illogical until they prove they can get results. No one is arguing that they're idiots- I'm basing it on their own factual records, which are mediocre at best.

We're showing progress by adding a rookie WR to the offense and not practicing? Give me a ****ing break.

[Jan Reimers]

How can we spend 128 posts and 7 pages talking about one cancelled practice?

[madness]

:rofl:

...looks like Marshawn has some company with this thread.

[mysticsoto]

I'm very familiar with project planning. It's an entirely different concept because in project planning, once a task is complete, there is no reason to do it over. But when you're practicing sports or music or acting or anything else, REPITITIONS are the key.

They've just had several months off. They have several more before TC. One extra day of practice is NOT going to overwork them. That's just ridiculous.

As far as Hardy and Johnson, well, Johnson probably won't even see the field unless there's an injury or a 5 receiver set. And have you looked at the impact of rookie WR's in their first season? It's minimal at best. And we were the 30th ranked O. If you honestly think that we added enough talent to this offense with Hardy alone, you're just fooling yourself. One rookie WR is NOT going to make this offense good, or even mediocre for that matter.

As far as what DJ and the staff feel, so what? First of all, it's just your guess- you even admit that you don't know what their reason is. Second, these guys have yet to produce results in Buffalo or anywhere else. Trusting their judgment is illogical until they prove they can get results. No one is arguing that they're idiots- I'm basing it on their own factual records, which are mediocre at best.

We're showing progress by adding a rookie WR to the offense and not practicing? Give me a ****ing break.

I have to correct some things that you keep splurting out erroneously:

1) They have not had several months off. The majority of the team has already been there for 1 month working in the OTAs!

2) TC is not SEVERAL months away. It is 6 weeks away!

[OpIv37]

I have to correct some things that you keep splurting out erroneously:

1) They have not had several months off. The majority of the team has already been there for 1 month working in the OTAs!

2) TC is not SEVERAL months away. It is 6 weeks away!

A month? a whole month! you mean 1/12 less than the rest of us work all year and less than 1/4 of the total NFL season? OH NO! One extra practice will be the death of them!

And they did have several months off right before the month of practice- you're splitting hairs.

I stand corrected on camp- last year they didn't start until August, so I was assuming it was at least two months away. The first practice is actually July 25. However, 6 weeks is still ample time to recover from ONE additional practice.

[justasportsfan]

I think we should cancel camp. The bills are ready

[mysticsoto]

A month? a whole month! you mean 1/12 less than the rest of us work all year and less than 1/4 of the total NFL season? OH NO! One extra practice will be the death of them!

And they did have several months off right before the month of practice- you're splitting hairs.

I stand corrected on camp- last year they didn't start until August, so I was assuming it was at least two months away. The first practice is actually July 25. However, 6 weeks is still ample time to recover from ONE additional practice.

Your attempt to de-emphasize what I said is futile. My point was to show that your numbers were way off. They have not had 4+ months resting....they've been at One Bills Drive working. And quite frankly, I prefer them to work through all voluntary OTAs and then get 1 day off at the end of mandatory camp rather than skip OTAs and work only the few days when it is mandatory....and 6 weeks of time off until TC is not really that long.

As usual...you overreacted!

[OpIv37]

Your attempt to de-emphasize what I said is futile. My point was to show that your numbers were way off. They have not had 4+ months resting....they've been at One Bills Drive working. And quite frankly, I prefer them to work through all voluntary OTAs and then get 1 day off at the end of mandatory camp rather than skip OTAs and work only the few days when it is mandatory....and 6 weeks of time off until TC is not really that long.

As usual...you overreacted!

they had 4+ months off RIGHT BEFORE that 1 month at OBD, so they HAVE been resting. And 6 weeks is more than long enough to recover from ONE practice.

yeah, the team didn't add any talent to the O and now they're not practicing but I'm overreacting. They're repeating the same mistakes they made in TC last year but I'm overreacting :rolleyes:

We'll see in September when this team is ill-prepared yet again.

[superbills]

I'm very familiar with project planning. It's an entirely different concept because in project planning, once a task is complete, there is no reason to do it over. But when you're practicing sports or music or acting or anything else, REPITITIONS are the key.

They've just had several months off. They have several more before TC. One extra day of practice is NOT going to overwork them. That's just ridiculous.

As far as Hardy and Johnson, well, Johnson probably won't even see the field unless there's an injury or a 5 receiver set. And have you looked at the impact of rookie WR's in their first season? It's minimal at best. And we were the 30th ranked O. If you honestly think that we added enough talent to this offense with Hardy alone, you're just fooling yourself. One rookie WR is NOT going to make this offense good, or even mediocre for that matter.

As far as what DJ and the staff feel, so what? First of all, it's just your guess- you even admit that you don't know what their reason is. Second, these guys have yet to produce results in Buffalo or anywhere else. Trusting their judgment is illogical until they prove they can get results. No one is arguing that they're idiots- I'm basing it on their own factual records, which are mediocre at best.

We're showing progress by adding a rookie WR to the offense and not practicing? Give me a ****ing break.

Ugh. I knew it was a mistake to even get involved. As usual you take everything to the nth degree and run with it.

No one knows what their reason is. We're speculating based on what the players are saying and common sense (I know, foreign "We're showing progress by adding a rookie WR to the offense and not practicing?". Well yes actually. How you can say that we won't be better with Hardy in the lineup is laughable. He would have to be the biggest chump-stain of all time not to have an impact given his size and ability and how much we were lacking at the WR spot. And as far as the not practicing thing, how many times do you have to be reminded that we had nearly perfect attendance at our voluntary workouts? Because of the turnout, it follows that they got more done that they had expected and it follows then that they were ahead of schedule and if further follows that the extra practice was not absolutely necessary and felt that showing some gratitude to their players for their dedication would be a better way to spend the day. Dear God, you have a lot to learn about perspective.

[OpIv37]

Ugh. I knew it was a mistake to even get involved. As usual you take everything to the nth degree and run with it.

No one knows what their reason is. We're speculating based on what the players are saying and common sense (I know, foreign "We're showing progress by adding a rookie WR to the offense and not practicing?". Well yes actually. How you can say that we won't be better with Hardy in the lineup is laughable. He would have to be the biggest chump-stain of all time not to have an impact given his size and ability and how much we were lacking at the WR spot. And as far as the not practicing thing, how many times do you have to be reminded that we had nearly perfect attendance at our voluntary workouts? Because of the turnout, it follows that they got more done that they had expected and it follows then that they were ahead of schedule and if further follows that the extra practice was not absolutely necessary and felt that showing some gratitude to their players for their dedication would be a better way to spend the day. Dear God, you have a lot to learn about perspective.

More practice is better than less practice, period. The CBA provides limited practice opportunities and Jauron pissed one away. I really don't care what the reason is for canceling it. It may not be absolutely necessary, but it would help so they should do it anyway. Gratitude doesn't equal wins- it didn't after training camp last year and it won't this year either.

As far as Hardy, we were 30th on O. The team was horrible in every measurable category. I think Hardy can be a good player for us, but he certainly won't make this offense good- or even mediocre- by himself in his rookie year. "Better" does not mean "good enough". The offense is still going to struggle significantly this year.

[mysticsoto]

More practice is better than less practice, period. The CBA provides limited practice opportunities and Jauron pissed one away. I really don't care what the reason is for canceling it. It may not be absolutely necessary, but it would help so they should do it anyway. Gratitude doesn't equal wins- it didn't after training camp last year and it won't this year either.

As far as Hardy, we were 30th on O. The team was horrible in every measurable category. I think Hardy can be a good player for us, but he certainly won't make this offense good- or even mediocre- by himself in his rookie year. "Better" does not mean "good enough". The offense is still going to struggle significantly this year.

Can you quantify this more? B'cse quite frankly, it is too vague as to what constitutes good enough or even better. What does Hardy have to achieve for you to consider him making the offense good or mediocre? What about the O as a whole?

[OpIv37]

Can you quantify this more? B'cse quite frankly, it is too vague as to what constitutes good enough or even better. What does Hardy have to achieve for you to consider him making the offense good or mediocre? What about the O as a whole?

Improve TOP and PPG significantly over last year. And win.

[ublinkwescore]

I say it was fairchild, and his getting away from what made our O explosive at times the year before.

[superbills]

More practice is better than less practice, period. The CBA provides limited practice opportunities and Jauron pissed one away. I really don't care what the reason is for canceling it. It may not be absolutely necessary, but it would help so they should do it anyway. Gratitude doesn't equal wins- it didn't after training camp last year and it won't this year either.

So they shouldn't get days off during the season then? There's only a limited number of days before each game.

The players are getting an important message here. If you perform, do your job, and learn the system, you will be rewarded. And drop this crap about the CBA. We've been over how much they were able to get done in OTA's. That made up for any practice time lost by the day off.


As far as Hardy, we were 30th on O. The team was horrible in every measurable category. I think Hardy can be a good player for us, but he certainly won't make this offense good- or even mediocre- by himself in his rookie year. "Better" does not mean "good enough". The offense is still going to struggle significantly this year.

Once again, you go to extremes. You said we didn't add talent to the offense. I said that Hardy will help the offense succeed. No one ever said that HE will do it on his own or that HE will be the reason the offense plays at an acceptable level. Saying that the the offense is going to struggle significantly this year is a level of conjecture that it a huge stretch of any known facts. Based on the changes we made you cannot know this.

[madness]

:popcorn: :sucker:

[OpIv37]

So they shouldn't get days off during the season then? There's only a limited number of days before each game.

The players are getting an important message here. If you perform, do your job, and learn the system, you will be rewarded. And drop this crap about the CBA. We've been over how much they were able to get done in OTA's. That made up for any practice time lost by the day off.



Once again, you go to extremes. You said we didn't add talent to the offense. I said that Hardy will help the offense succeed. No one ever said that HE will do it on his own or that HE will be the reason the offense plays at an acceptable level. Saying that the the offense is going to struggle significantly this year is a level of conjecture that it a huge stretch of any known facts. Based on the changes we made you cannot know this.

During the season is different because they only have 6 days to rest. they have 6 WEEKS this time. You're comparing apples to oranges.

And drop this crap about what they got done in OTA's. They could have got MORE done with an additional practice. But instead, they chose to say "meh, good enough." Now they can't practice for six weeks.

How is saying that the offense is going to struggle a huge stretch? Saying that the offense will improve is a huge stretch. The offense struggled last year. This is known fact. What did they do to improve? Added a rookie WR- THAT'S IT. And now they're not even practicing. It's a huge stretch to think an offense that sucked and only added a rookie WR will be good enough. WR wasn't our only problem last year- we had worthless TE's, an OL that struggled in run blocking and poor QB play. Is Hardy magically going to make up for all of that as well? Take off the red-and-blue tinted glasses and think about that for a second.

[raphael120]

Saying that the offense will improve is a huge stretch. The offense struggled last year. This is known fact. What did they do to improve? Added a rookie WR- THAT'S IT. And now they're not even practicing. It's a huge stretch to think an offense that sucked and only added a rookie WR will be good enough.

DUDE! Calm down! We added more to the offense than just Hardy!!! We added Teyo Johnson who will TEAR UP THE LEAGUE!...wait...he got cut....

nevermind...proceed with the rant, Op.

[patmoran2006]

I dont think one day of camp in Mid June is going to make a difference.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the reaason they canceled today's practice is to have more time to prepare for whatever legal matters are coming. That would've naturally been on the minds of everyone after the police showed up yesterday. Im SURE they didnt want to make guys like Hardy, Johnon, Gaitis available to the media as well as the others who now may be forced to testify as to what they know.

Its not big deal (missing a practice today that is)

[mysticsoto]

Improve TOP and PPG significantly over last year. And win.

Again...what is "significantly"? What I am looking for is what milestones will cause you to feel the offense has indeed improved or even become "mediocre". Give me exact numbers...and then at the end of the season, we can compare to see if the Offense did indeed meet the performance requirements you felt they needed to.

[raphael120]

I just don't like how Jauron coaches very much...clapping when we mess up and settle for field goals after field goals...being a mediocre game day coach...as much as everyone says Jauron is a respected coach...being a respected coach doesn't win games. It just means you have good character. This team shouldn't be rewarded for showing up to get better, they SHOULD be there. NO ONE on that team has shown they're good enough to NOT need these practices. So to reward people for doing their damn job is beyond me...

[OpIv37]

Again...what is "significantly"? What I am looking for is what milestones will cause you to feel the offense has indeed improved or even become "mediocre". Give me exact numbers...and then at the end of the season, we can compare to see if the Offense did indeed meet the performance requirements you felt they needed to.

I will do this but I don't have time right now. I'm going to look up what the Bills did last year and what the other NFL teams did and come up with something more concrete for you. But to give you a vague idea, "mediocre" would be ranked between 14 and 22 in TOP and/or PPG.

[OpIv37]

I dont think one day of camp in Mid June is going to make a difference.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the reaason they canceled today's practice is to have more time to prepare for whatever legal matters are coming. That would've naturally been on the minds of everyone after the police showed up yesterday. Im SURE they didnt want to make guys like Hardy, Johnon, Gaitis available to the media as well as the others who now may be forced to testify as to what they know.

Its not big deal (missing a practice today that is)

I think it is.

As bad as this team has been, every missed practice opportunity is a big deal.

[patmoran2006]

I just don't like how Jauron coaches very much...clapping when we mess up and settle for field goals after field goals...being a mediocre game day coach...as much as everyone says Jauron is a respected coach...being a respected coach doesn't win games. It just means you have good character. This team shouldn't be rewarded for showing up to get better, they SHOULD be there. NO ONE on that team has shown they're good enough to NOT need these practices. So to reward people for doing their damn job is beyond me...
I agree about Jauron.

But the reason there is no practice today, whether its publicly stated or not, is because of the legal ****, not because they dont think they need it.

Having the weekend to speak with their corporate attorney and whatever other attorneys before issuing more public statements is probably in the best interest of people like Wilson and Brandon.

[justasportsfan]

this OP vs. Mystic is getting old.

[superbills]

During the season is different because they only have 6 days to rest. they have 6 WEEKS this time. You're comparing apples to oranges.

And drop this crap about what they got done in OTA's. They could have got MORE done with an additional practice. But instead, they chose to say "meh, good enough." Now they can't practice for six weeks.

Once again, they most likely feel that they've achieved their goals for this round of camps. I think that's that case. You, obviously do not. We have no concrete proof either way so this debate is over.


How is saying that the offense is going to struggle a huge stretch? Saying that the offense will improve is a huge stretch. The offense struggled last year. This is known fact. What did they do to improve? Added a rookie WR- THAT'S IT. And now they're not even practicing. It's a huge stretch to think an offense that sucked and only added a rookie WR will be good enough. WR wasn't our only problem last year- we had worthless TE's, an OL that struggled in run blocking and poor QB play. Is Hardy magically going to make up for all of that as well? Take off the red-and-blue tinted glasses and think about that for a second.

So what's your magic pill? What should they have done differently? We have a new offensive coordinator. We brought in receivers (I know. They're rookies. Not some washed-up, or over-hyped vet. I get it.) If our running back doesn't get suspended and we figure out how to get our left tackle to play with us I don't see any reason why there won't be an improvement from last year. I may be wearing Red and blue tinted glasses, but at least I can see through them. all is not dark and bleak.

[OpIv37]

Once again, they most likely feel that they've achieved their goals for this round of camps. I think that's that case. You, obviously do not. We have no concrete proof either way so this debate is over.



So what's your magic pill? What should they have done differently? We have a new offensive coordinator. We brought in receivers (I know. They're rookies. Not some washed-up, or over-hyped vet. I get it.) If our running back doesn't get suspended and we figure out how to get our left tackle to play with us I don't see any reason why there won't be an improvement from last year. I may be wearing Red and blue tinted glasses, but at least I can see through them. all is not dark and bleak.

You're expecting too much improvement from very little. We had the same RB last year. We had the same LT last year. We had the same QB last year. We had the same TE last year. We had two of the same receivers last year. We're doing the same thing and you're expecting different results- it just makes no sense.

I suspect we'll see some improvement out of the O, but we'll go from 30th to maybe 24th or 25th- we still won't be good enough. We can still expect a lot of 3 and outs and a lot of FG's in the red zone. The talent just isn't there.

[superbills]

I agree about Jauron.

But the reason there is no practice today, whether its publicly stated or not, is because of the legal ****, not because they dont think they need it.

Having the weekend to speak with their corporate attorney and whatever other attorneys before issuing more public statements is probably in the best interest of people like Wilson and Brandon.

Well, you're probably right. the weight of what is going down in the Lynch situation may have tipped the scales ultimately. Thus, our entire, long, drawn-out thread is useless. Yay us :balloons:

[superbills]

You're expecting too much improvement from very little. We had the same RB last year. We had the same LT last year. We had the same QB last year. We had the same TE last year. We had two of the same receivers last year. We're doing the same thing and you're expecting different results- it just makes no sense.

I suspect we'll see some improvement out of the O, but we'll go from 30th to maybe 24th or 25th- we still won't be good enough. We can still expect a lot of 3 and outs and a lot of FG's in the red zone. The talent just isn't there.

Holy crap. It continues. You cannot assume any of that. Two of the key positions on this team were occupied by first-year rookies last year, QB and RB. Our RB earned accolades and respect throughout the league for his performance and finished with decent numbers. I expect that to improve.

Trent showed signs that he can lead an NFL team, despite coming from a team in college where winning was a foreign term. He's evolving, and getting better. I expect his numbers and production to improve.

What makes no sense is assuming that because we had a down year, with uncertainty on offense (without mentioning QB names) and a different coordinator that we will have the same struggles this year. Could we? Of course. And once again, you've offered no alternative other than to ***** about the same thing. Congrats.

[justasportsfan]

I suspect we'll see some improvement out of the O, but we'll go from 30th to maybe 24th or 25th- we still won't be good enough. We can still expect a lot of 3 and outs and a lot of FG's in the red zone. The talent just isn't there.

you're right. Missing one day practice would've put us at top 10.

Wanna bet we 'll finish better than 24 on offense?

YOu still owe me 5,000 from last years bet :mad:

[OpIv37]

Holy crap. It continues. You cannot assume any of that. Two of the key positions on this team were occupied by first-year rookies last year, QB and RB. Our RB earned accolades and respect throughout the league for his performance and finished with decent numbers. I expect that to improve.

Trent showed signs that he can lead an NFL team, despite coming from a team in college where winning was a foreign term. He's evolving, and getting better. I expect his numbers and production to improve.

What makes no sense is assuming that because we had a down year, with uncertainty on offense (without mentioning QB names) and a different coordinator that we will have the same struggles this year. Could we? Of course. And once again, you've offered no alternative other than to ***** about the same thing. Congrats.

***** about the same thing? That's because we're DOING THE SAME THING THAT DIDN'T WORK LAST YEAR.

Remember how much better the D was supposed to be with Whitner, McCargo, Williams and Simpson coming into their 2nd year? How'd that work out? Oh, yeah- we were ranked 31s on D. But, at least we added talent to the D in the off-season.

We lost our last 4 games and Trent looked pretty bad. What makes you think he's suddenly going to be better when this year starts? He should improve over the course of the season, but even that's not definite (and he's certainly not going to get better by NOT playing football in the off-season- especially since we're skipping practices now). The O needs more talent- not just a handful of guys improving.

Alternatives? What difference does it make if there are alternatives? Maybe there was nothing the FO could have done to improve the O. But I'm not *****ing about the FO- I'm *****ing about the O not being good enough. The availability of alternatives (or lack thereof) does NOT give us a better product to put on the field. The O still isn't good enough.

Is it possible that the same group of guys can magically get better? I suppose anything's possible. Is it likely? Hell no. The most likely outcome is that Hardy and a year of experience lead to a small amount of improvement, but since the majority of the offense is the same as last year, the most likely scenario is that the majority of outcomes will be the same as last year. Deal with it.

[mysticsoto]

this OP vs. Mystic is getting old.

I know...and I get tired of winning every time. :D

Where's FTP? I feel like laughing at stupidity...

[superbills]

***** about the same thing? That's because we're DOING THE SAME THING THAT DIDN'T WORK LAST YEAR.

Remember how much better the D was supposed to be with Whitner, McCargo, Williams and Simpson coming into their 2nd year? How'd that work out? Oh, yeah- we were ranked 31s on D. But, at least we added talent to the D in the off-season.

We lost our last 4 games and Trent looked pretty bad. What makes you think he's suddenly going to be better when this year starts? He should improve over the course of the season, but even that's not definite (and he's certainly not going to get better by NOT playing football in the off-season- especially since we're skipping practices now). The O needs more talent- not just a handful of guys improving.

Alternatives? What difference does it make if there are alternatives? Maybe there was nothing the FO could have done to improve the O. But I'm not *****ing about the FO- I'm *****ing about the O not being good enough. The availability of alternatives (or lack thereof) does NOT give us a better product to put on the field. The O still isn't good enough.

Is it possible that the same group of guys can magically get better? I suppose anything's possible. Is it likely? Hell no. The most likely outcome is that Hardy and a year of experience lead to a small amount of improvement, but since the majority of the offense is the same as last year, the most likely scenario is that the majority of outcomes will be the same as last year. Deal with it.

Magically get better, huh? Well, if it takes "magic" then why bother practicing? So, it turns out we don't need to bother anyway. Cool.

And given that, I guess it's completely impossible for them to improve through experience and coaching. That would be unheard of.

So, the verdict is you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing. That's what we all figured.

[PECKERWOOD]

Looks like it's back to Club Dick again. Boy, Training Camp should be pretty boring this year.... :sigh: And the team will probably start out slow again. :(

Dick wants to golf and play with his balls, Dick hits his balls hard.

[Jan Reimers]

Never has 1 cancelled practice session meant so much to so many.

It's really pretty funny.

[OpIv37]

Magically get better, huh? Well, if it takes "magic" then why bother practicing? So, it turns out we don't need to bother anyway. Cool.

And given that, I guess it's completely impossible for them to improve through experience and coaching. That would be unheard of.

So, the verdict is you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing. That's what we all figured.

There's much more of a chance that they'll get better if they practice than if they don't- they should do everything they can to improve and they're not.

Experience and coaching didn't work for the D last year. It only gets you so far. The offense was HORRIBLE last year and experience and coaching simply are not enough to make an O that bad good enough to win. People deluded themselves last year into thinking experience and coaching was enough to improve the D and they were wrong. You're doing it again with the O this year.

Seriously, you honestly think complaining that the 30th ranked O is relying on "experience and coaching" to improve is *****ing for the sake of *****ing? Get real. I want this team to win and they're not going to do it relying on "experience and coaching". Any fan has a right to ***** about the team not doing what it takes to win.

You, on the other hand, would rather make excuses and rely on methods that haven't worked in the past to improve the team than admit the O really hasn't improved enough. Too bad- you're only fooling yourself.

[superbills]

There's much more of a chance that they'll get better if they practice than if they don't- they should do everything they can to improve and they're not.

Experience and coaching didn't work for the D last year. It only gets you so far. The offense was HORRIBLE last year and experience and coaching simply are not enough to make an O that bad good enough to win. People deluded themselves last year into thinking experience and coaching was enough to improve the D and they were wrong. You're doing it again with the O this year.

Seriously, you honestly think complaining that the 30th ranked O is relying on "experience and coaching" to improve is *****ing for the sake of *****ing? Get real. I want this team to win and they're not going to do it relying on "experience and coaching". Any fan has a right to ***** about the team not doing what it takes to win.

You, on the other hand, would rather make excuses and rely on methods that haven't worked in the past to improve the team than admit the O really hasn't improved enough. Too bad- you're only fooling yourself.

You just told me that there's nothing they could have done to improve the offense. Those were your words. Yet, you fault management for not doing enough. Can't have it both ways. Thus, you are indeed *****ing for the sake of *****ing. You've ranted aimlessly about this for so long you can't even keep your story straight.

[OpIv37]

You just told me that there's nothing they could have done to improve the offense. Those were your words. Yet, you fault management for not doing enough. Can't have it both ways. Thus, you are indeed *****ing for the sake of *****ing. You've ranted aimlessly about this for so long you can't even keep your story straight.

are you daft?

I never faulted management for not doing enough. Don't accuse me of "not keeping my story straight" because you made up stuff I never said.

I said the O we have isn't good enough to win, and that's why I'm *****ing. You're making stuff up about management because I showed I had legitimate reasons to ***** about the O and wasn't just "*****ing for the sake of *****ing."

I'm not *****ing about the FO. I'm *****ing because I want the team to win and the O isn't good enough to do it. I can't say it any simpler than that.

[superbills]

are you daft?

I never faulted management for not doing enough. Don't accuse me of "not keeping my story straight" because you made up stuff I never said.

I said the O we have isn't good enough to win, and that's why I'm *****ing. You're making stuff up about management because I showed I had legitimate reasons to ***** about the O and wasn't just "*****ing for the sake of *****ing."

I'm not *****ing about the FO. I'm *****ing because I want the team to win and the O isn't good enough to do it. I can't say it any simpler than that.

Daft is as daft does sir.

So explain what the hell you're talking about then:


Alternatives? What difference does it make if there are alternatives? Maybe there was nothing the FO could have done to improve the O. But I'm not *****ing about the FO- I'm *****ing about the O not being good enough. The availability of alternatives (or lack thereof) does NOT give us a better product to put on the field. The O still isn't good enough.

So there was nothing the FO could do. What then, pray-tell, will give us this "majestic" offense that you seek? Should they all be sipping from the Holy Grail of offensive production? Do we need to hire that kid from the Incredibles to run fly patterns?

[OpIv37]

Daft is as daft does sir.

So explain what the hell you're talking about then:



So there was nothing the FO could do. What then, pray-tell, will give us this "majestic" offense that you seek? Should they all be sipping from the Holy Grail of offensive production? Do we need to hire that kid from the Incredibles to run fly patterns?

You're not getting it. I want to win games. The offense isn't good enough to win games.

It doesn't matter what alternatives there were or weren't. It doesn't matter why the offense isn't good enough to win games. It just isn't.

Here's the problem: you sit here and say "well, there were no alternatives, so the offense MUST be good enough through experience and coaching." But the reality of the situation is that the lack of alternatives does NOT make the offense we have good enough. It wasn't good enough last year, and while it should be slightly better this year, it still won't be good enough to win games.

A lack of alternatives for the FO does not magically make our offense good enough. And my problem is not with the FO (well, not right now anyway)- it's with the fact that we're going to keep losing because the O isn't good enough.

[Philagape]

I think the offense can make big strides, between Hardy, improvement from Lynch and Edwards, and Fairchild being gone. Those are huge factors that feed off each other and create ripple effects.

[OpIv37]

I think the offense can make big strides, between Hardy, improvement from Lynch and Edwards, and Fairchild being gone. Those are huge factors that feed off each other and create ripple effects.

well, first of all the new OC is completely unproven. It's hard to be worse than Fairchild, but we said the same thing about Mularkey when he took over for Williams.

As far as Hardy, Lynch and Edwards, I just don't see them improving enough to make this offense formidable. We were ranked 30th last year- we were god-awful. Two players who were here last year and one rookie can't possibly compensate for that. Its unfortunate that two 2nd year players and a rookie WR have the responsibility for improving the 30th ranked offense, but that's the situation that we're in.

[Philagape]

Last year the Browns went from 31st in offense to eighth with a QB in his second year (who was drafted in the sixth round) and a new OC who had never been an OC in the NFL.

[hydro]

:goodpost:

[OpIv37]

Last year the Browns went from 31st in offense to eighth with a QB in his second year (who was drafted in the sixth round) and a new OC who had never been an OC in the NFL.

vs how many first year OC's that failed? vs how many 2nd year QB's that failed? Look at the Buffalo Bills over the last 10 years and you'll see plenty of examples of each. And that's just one team.

It's the same old argument- the exception does not prove the rule. Just because some other team in some other city during some other season beat the odds once does not mean we can or will do it this year.

[Philagape]

All it proves is it's possible, and that there's no mathematical formula for improvement. There are reasons about each factor that have been covered in various threads about them.

[superbills]

You're not getting it. I want to win games. The offense isn't good enough to win games.

It doesn't matter what alternatives there were or weren't. It doesn't matter why the offense isn't good enough to win games. It just isn't.

Here's the problem: you sit here and say "well, there were no alternatives, so the offense MUST be good enough through experience and coaching." But the reality of the situation is that the lack of alternatives does NOT make the offense we have good enough. It wasn't good enough last year, and while it should be slightly better this year, it still won't be good enough to win games.

A lack of alternatives for the FO does not magically make our offense good enough. And my problem is not with the FO (well, not right now anyway)- it's with the fact that we're going to keep losing because the O isn't good enough.

My God this is so maddening. First, I was not the one who said there were no alternatives. You were. I pointed out that I felt the alternatives were not worth the money. You state that the offense is not good enough and you have no basis in fact to support that argument. None. You have decided that the players we have on this team are beyond hope and all is lost. But, last year does not necessarily translate to this year, as Philagape pointed out.

Again, you're just flat-out convinced that the offense is going to suck and that's too bad. I would hate being a fan if in my mind the season were over before it began.

[OpIv37]

My God this is so maddening. First, I was not the one who said there were no alternatives. You were. I pointed out that I felt the alternatives were not worth the money. You state that the offense is not good enough and you have no basis in fact to support that argument. None. You have decided that the players we have on this team are beyond hope and all is lost. But, last year does not necessarily translate to this year, as Philagape pointed out.

Again, you're just flat-out convinced that the offense is going to suck and that's too bad. I would hate being a fan if in my mind the season were over before it began.

I would hate to be a fan who had to pretend the team is better than it is to be a fan. It implies you wouldn't be a fan if you understood the reality of the situation.