Great story on our Offense.

[acehole]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3438951

One of my biggest complaints was Fairchild predictability.

This sounds (On paper) very different then what we were running.

Made the point I made of exclusive short routes and there danger.

Glad to hear out of the OC mouth that it wont be.

I like the way they will use parish and reed...natural for them.

Bills turning back the clock to improve offense


ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- While former Bengals and Bucs head coach Sam Wyche won the Pickens County (S.C.) Republican bid for a county council seat Tuesday, his football legacy lived on in western New York.

As I watched Tuesday's Bills minicamp practice, something didn't look right. A year ago, the Bills ran an offense designed by Steve Fairchild, who learned the Mike Martz system during his stay in St. Louis. The Martz system, which goes all the way back to the Air Coryell days of Don Coryell in San Diego, aggressively sends receivers into routes and stresses the run after the catch.

Tuesday, the motions of the receivers and the formations of the Bills weren't the same. As I racked my brain, I realized the difference. The Bills' offense had the look of a Wyche offense in the 1980s and '90s, only updated with the three-receiver and two-tight end sets of this decade.


Edited: Entire articles can not be posted. Please just post a small segment of it along with the link. Thank you. ~CG

[Jan Reimers]

It's way early, but from what I've heard Schonert say, and what I've read about the OTAs and minicamp, it sounds like our offense is going to be much more diverse than Fairchild's.

[acehole]

It's way early, but from what I've heard Schonert say, and what I've read about the OTAs and minicamp, it sounds like our offense is going to be much more diverse than Fairchild's.


You mean no more run left of center...left of center.....left of center?

[Romes]

LBF was right when he said they would design this offense to look like Cincy's old scheme.

[acehole]

LBF was right when he said they would design this offense to look like Cincy's old scheme.

Ok but I dont remember that as a powerhouse offense....

Any old guys here who can speak of the vaulted Bengals offense?

[Jan Reimers]

Ken Anderson was a pretty good QB, Icky Woods did a mean shuffle, and Anthony Munoz anchored a real good O-Line, but I can't remember theit receivers.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Ok but I dont remember that as a powerhouse offense....

Any old guys here who can speak of the vaulted Bengals offense?

Ken Anderson was a very smart, very accurate passer. He was replaced by Boomer Esiason who was similar. Esiason was a Pro Bowl QB in the late '80s--pretty good considering that Marino, Elway and Kelly were all in the AFC (and the Raiders had a decent QB also).

James Brooks, who was a Pro Bowler and very similar in many ways to Thurman Thomas, before Thurman Thomas, was their "home-run" threat at RB. He was an excellent receiver out of the backfield and, being fast, a very dangerous runner outside of the tackles. Being on the smallish side (he was smaller than T.Thomas), Cincy didn't like to run him inside the way the Bills used Thomas.

In 1988, Cincy added Ickey Woods, ROY, to take over as their primary inside runner from Stanley Wilson. Where Wilson was more of a situational back-up to Brooks, Woods, who ended up being a Pro Bowler, got a lot more playing time and gradually relegated Brooks to being a 3rd down back as he got older. Early on, they had Larry Kinnebrew, a real bruiser, who was replaced by Woods.

The offensive line featured two Pro Bowlers: HOF OT Anthony Munoz and OG Max Montoya. Dave Rimington was a pretty good center until 1987. I don't remember if it was Brian Blados or Bruce Reimers who took over for Rimington, but I do recall that their center position was still pretty strong.

At wide receiver, Eddie Brown, who was a Pro Bowler, was their primary weapon. I remember him as being very fast and having good hands. They had an even faster WR than Brown in Tim McGee, who was an Olympic class sprinter. Their main possession receiver was Chris Collinsworth, who was a lot better than he gives himself credit for being.

Rodney Holman was their main TE. He was a tall, athletic TE who could catch the ball pretty well.

Jim Breech, the kicker, didn't have great range, but he was very accurate for his day.

Three times in a five year span they scored over 400 points, including 448--and average of 28 points a game--in 1988. In one of the other two years they scored 360 points, a 22.5 per game average. And, that was at a time when the rules favored the defense more than they do today.

Schonert was there during Wyche's heyday and also when the team took a downturn due to age, injuries and losses to free agency (Cincy was notorious for being even cheaper than the Bills ever were). The Houston and Pittsburgh teams that the Bills faced on their way to their Super Bowl appearances ultimately surpassed the Bengals (who fired Wyche and let Esaison go to the Jets after he was injured a couple of times).

But, during Wyche's heyday in Cincy, their offense was pretty efficient when it came to scoring.

[The Spaz]

Carl Pickens was a pretty good WR for the Bengals too.

[Mitchy moo]

Well, the execution on the field is the final result of a plan. We have been hearing how the line would help our offense and what have you for the past few years now. Please place the proof in the pudding, thanks.

[Confused]

good read. thanks

[realdealryan]

You mean no more run left of center...left of center.....left of center....PUNT?

fixed.

[TacklingDummy]

One of my biggest complaints was Fairchild predictability.

This sounds (On paper) very different then what we were running.

Made the point I made of exclusive short routes and there danger.



Talk is cheap. I want to see results to believe it.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Just one snag... We better all hope that Trent Edwards lives up to the Boomer Esiason role.

[Romes]

Just one snag... We better all hope that Trent Edwards lives up to the Boomer Esiason role.

actually there is more than just one snag. Along with hoping Trent improves we also better hope

1) the offense being implemented looks good not only on paper but also looks good on the field.
2) that come game time Schonert selects the right plays
3) Marshawn does not have a sophomore slump
4) the offensive line improves their run blocking
5) Hardy becomes the redzone threat he's supposed to be
6) we get some production from the TE position

Am I missing anything?

Or we could all just lay it on Trent's shoulders...

I'm as optimistic as anyone but putting all the responsibility on Trent only serves to put all the blame on him if things don't work out.

Or should we all lay it on Trent's shoulder

[Jan Reimers]

As I recall, that Bengals team had a Super Bowl all but wrapped up, except for a guy named Joe Montana.

[justasportsfan]

Am I missing anything?
we need a dominant D. Until we start seeing conisistency with Trent connecting downfield , I'm afraid we're gonna have a dink and dunk conservative O.


Or we could all just lay it on Trent's shoulders...

I'm as optimistic as anyone but putting all the responsibility on Trent only serves to put all the blame on him if things don't work out.

Or should we all lay it on Trent's shoulder
It's been done here before. I can see them easily blaming Trent again.

[acehole]

This is not a qb thread.

However we will use the same measure we used for JP.



actually there is more than just one snag. Along with hoping Trent improves we also better hope

1) the offense being implemented looks good not only on paper but also looks good on the field.
2) that come game time Schonert selects the right plays
3) Marshawn does not have a sophomore slump
4) the offensive line improves their run blocking
5) Hardy becomes the redzone threat he's supposed to be
6) we get some production from the TE position

Am I missing anything?

Or we could all just lay it on Trent's shoulders...

I'm as optimistic as anyone but putting all the responsibility on Trent only serves to put all the blame on him if things don't work out.

Or should we all lay it on Trent's shoulder

[acehole]

This is not a qb thread.

However we will use the same measure we used for JP.



actually there is more than just one snag. Along with hoping Trent improves we also better hope

1) the offense being implemented looks good not only on paper but also looks good on the field.
2) that come game time Schonert selects the right plays
3) Marshawn does not have a sophomore slump
4) the offensive line improves their run blocking
5) Hardy becomes the redzone threat he's supposed to be
6) we get some production from the TE position

Am I missing anything?

Or we could all just lay it on Trent's shoulders...

I'm as optimistic as anyone but putting all the responsibility on Trent only serves to put all the blame on him if things don't work out.

Or should we all lay it on Trent's shoulder

[gr8slayer]

It's way early, but from what I've heard Schonert say, and what I've read about the OTAs and minicamp, it sounds like our offense is going to be much more diverse than Fairchild's.
I'll believe it when I see it; it feels like every year we hear something along those lines and it never turns out to be true.

[gr8slayer]

actually there is more than just one snag. Along with hoping Trent improves we also better hope

1) the offense being implemented looks good not only on paper but also looks good on the field.
2) that come game time Schonert selects the right plays
3) Marshawn does not have a sophomore slump
4) the offensive line improves their run blocking
5) Hardy becomes the redzone threat he's supposed to be
6) we get some production from the TE position

Am I missing anything?

Or we could all just lay it on Trent's shoulders...

I'm as optimistic as anyone but putting all the responsibility on Trent only serves to put all the blame on him if things don't work out.

Or should we all lay it on Trent's shoulder
There's no doubt that it's all on Edwards' shoulders. If he sucks this year we're going to suck, our entire season rests on him removing his head from his rear this year and playing like an NFL QB. But just like any young QB it might take a few years.

[Romes]

There's no doubt that it's all on Edwards' shoulders. If he sucks this year we're going to suck, our entire season rests on him removing his head from his rear this year and playing like an NFL QB. But just like any young QB it might take a few years.

There is no doubt Trent needs to be better than average.

I was just pointing out that there are other factors that will also determine our success or failure. Its not like every other aspect of our team is proven.

[mysticsoto]

we need a dominant D. Until we start seeing conisistency with Trent connecting downfield , I'm afraid we're gonna have a dink and dunk conservative O.


Conservative is not necessarily bad - as long as it's not predictable like our last year's O was!!! By the sounds of it, they are implementing and adding plays to the playbook. Sounds like alot of our season will be determined by how quickly Trent can pick up the new plays and add them to his arsenal...and understanding when to use which.

[justasportsfan]

Conservative is not necessarily bad - as long as it's not predictable like our last year's O was!!! By the sounds of it, they are implementing and adding plays to the playbook. Sounds like alot of our season will be determined by how quickly Trent can pick up the new plays and add them to his arsenal...and understanding when to use which.


I agree on the conservative not being bad we but need to have the ability to have big plays when needed. Conservative playcalling isn't gonna take us deep into the playoffs either unless our D is dominant.

We won't always be in the lead. I don't want our O keeping games close and try to win it in the 4th qtr. All these years our D as bad as it may have been has been the one picking up the slack for the O.

There will be times when we will have to be in a shootout. I want us to have the ability to at least keep up. I don't want our O to look like the way it did against the cowboys.

[gr8slayer]

Conservative is not necessarily bad - as long as it's not predictable like our last year's O was!!! By the sounds of it, they are implementing and adding plays to the playbook. Sounds like alot of our season will be determined by how quickly Trent can pick up the new plays and add them to his arsenal...and understanding when to use which.
Conservative is fine but you have to know when to run it.

[TacklingDummy]

Just one snag... We better all hope that Trent Edwards lives up to the Boomer Esiason role.

That's a new one.

Im just hoping he improves upon his Todd Collins comparison.

[mysticsoto]

I agree on the conservative not being bad we but need to have the ability to have big plays when needed. Conservative playcalling isn't gonna take us deep into the playoffs either unless our D is dominant.

We won't always be in the lead. I don't want our O keeping games close and try to win it in the 4th qtr. All these years our D as bad as it may have been has been the one picking up the slack for the O.

There will be times when we will have to be in a shootout. I want us to have the ability to at least keep up. I don't want our O to look like the way it did against the cowboys.

Justa/GR8,

Here's what I envision. If our O is to be conservative, here is how I view what the strategy should be for a good portion of our games: run a great deal, get a few TDs a game, and probably throw in some field goals. Use up alot of clock in the process. When our D comes up, they are rested and they are geared for creating turnovers. With those TOs, O gets the ball again, take our time up the field again, score or get a field goal, use up alot of clock. Repeat.

Now that's not going to work against everyone obviously, but the strategy is sound. I know some people want high fired bombs across the field, but I don't envision us being able to run that sort of offense - atleast not yet until Trent gets another year or two under his belt and our Oline starts making huge holes for Lynch as well as hardy becoming a great compliment to Evans. So for now, I think conservative is good. As I said, being predictable is what we have to watch out against and if there's any lesson to learn from last year it's...whatever Fairchild would do - don't do it!!!

[justasportsfan]

Justa/GR8,

Here's what I envision. If our O is to be conservative, here is how I view what the strategy should be for a good portion of our games: run a great deal, get a few TDs a game, and probably throw in some field goals. Use up alot of clock in the process. When our D comes up, they are rested and they are geared for creating turnovers. With those TOs, O gets the ball again, take our time up the field again, score or get a field goal, use up alot of clock. Repeat.!!!As long as our D is dominant, that's fine. Otherwise, thats not enough.


Now that's not going to work against everyone obviously, but the strategy is sound. I know some people want high fired bombs across the field, but I don't envision us being able to run that sort of offense - atleast not yet until Trent gets another year or two under his belt and our Oline starts making huge holes for Lynch as well as hardy becoming a great compliment to Evans. So for now, I think conservative is good. As I said, being predictable is what we have to watch out against and if there's any lesson to learn from last year it's...whatever Fairchild would do - don't do it!!!

Dick does not have a year or 2 for Trent to devlop. He ran out of time when he made a mistake by hiring Fairchild. He can't afford to be wrong with Turk as well.

[yordad]

There is no doubt Trent needs to be better than average.

I was just pointing out that there are other factors that will also determine our success or failure. Its not like every other aspect of our team is proven.Why does that argument look so familiar?

[Romes]

Why does that argument look so familiar?

Cause its the same argument. :idunno:

[mysticsoto]

As long as our D is dominant, that's fine. Otherwise, thats not enough.

Dick does not have a year or 2 for Trent to devlop. He ran out of time when he made a mistake by hiring Fairchild. He can't afford to be wrong with Turk as well.

Not being enough and Dick needing to do things now, are not necessarily going to happen b'cse we will them to. Our O needs to develop certain things - the most important being to have a viable #2 WR. They took steps to recruit and address that, but they can't control how long Hardy takes in developing. Worse comes to worse, they can try to grab a vetern FA WR out there. But any WR worthwhile has already been grabbed and what we could likely get would be no different than moving Reed to #2 which is obviously not the best answer. That is outside Dicks' control - as is Trent's development. I'm not sure there is much more Jauron can do now.

I think Dick (and Marv) did a good job in trying to create and foster an environment of good character personnel and now have to hope that the environment is capable of fostering growth in its players.

Time will tell.

[The Answer]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3438951

One of my biggest complaints was Fairchild predictability.

This sounds (On paper) very different then what we were running.

Made the point I made of exclusive short routes and there danger.

Glad to hear out of the OC mouth that it wont be.

I like the way they will use parish and reed...natural for them.

Bills turning back the clock to improve offense


ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- While former Bengals and Bucs head coach Sam Wyche won the Pickens County (S.C.) Republican bid for a county council seat Tuesday, his football legacy lived on in western New York.

As I watched Tuesday's Bills minicamp practice, something didn't look right. A year ago, the Bills ran an offense designed by Steve Fairchild, who learned the Mike Martz system during his stay in St. Louis. The Martz system, which goes all the way back to the Air Coryell days of Don Coryell in San Diego, aggressively sends receivers into routes and stresses the run after the catch.

Tuesday, the motions of the receivers and the formations of the Bills weren't the same. As I racked my brain, I realized the difference. The Bills' offense had the look of a Wyche offense in the 1980s and '90s, only updated with the three-receiver and two-tight end sets of this decade.


Edited: Entire articles can not be posted. Please just post a small segment of it along with the link. Thank you. ~CG

Good Read - however it seems to me that there have been conflicting reports of just what type of offense we are looking to run.

Are we going truly going to be a wide open, vertical passing attack? Or are we going to stick to the 'CorpseBall' mentality (i.e. ball control, conservative passing attack). I hope we have a true offensive mindset, but my intuition tells me our offense will resemble the latter given The Corpse's history.

Either way this is a critical year for Edwards and I really hope this franchise don't squander his talent and ability becaise we have gone through way too may QB's the last 10 years and I'd hate to see the carousel spin yet again in 2009.

~The Answer

[yordad]

Cause its the same argument. :idunno:So, it is a one way street? :idunno:

First, I agree. Second, I think it is a two way street. If people are going to put the win/loss record on JP, they are going to put it on TE also.

Do I think it is fair? No. Just seems many do. And, I think TE has way less excuses, especially if half of Turk's talk comes true.

[gr8slayer]

So, it is a one way street? :idunno:

First, I agree. Second, I think it is a two way street. If people are going to put the win/loss record on JP, they are going to put it on TE also.
Who isn't putting the W/L record on Edwards? If you lose you lose no matter what your experience is.
Do I think it is fair? No. Just seems many do. And, I think TE has way less excuses, especially if have of Turks talk comes true.
Who's making excuses for Edwards? If he sucks he sucks, but that doesn't mean we need to screw up and pull him after three games like we did with Losman. All that does is **** him up mentally.

[Romes]

So, it is a one way street? :idunno:

First, I agree. Second, I think it is a two way street. If people are going to put the win/loss record on JP, they are going to put it on TE also.

Do I think it is fair? No. Just seems many do. And, I think TE has way less excuses, especially if have of Turks talk comes true.

Even though I cringe at starting another JP/TE thread...I'll answer.

No i think its a two way street.

I can't speak for other's opinions on TE or JP. To me wins and losses is a team stat...as are most other stats in football.

Could JP have done better with a better situation around him? Probably. But he's not second string because he's lost more games than TE he is second string because the coaches think TE is the better QB. (now obviously the better QB will tend to win more games, but thats a chicken/egg argument we don't need to get into)

But you're right if everything comes together around TE he'll have even less excuses.

[acehole]

Who are you and what have you done with the answer.




Good Read - however it seems to me that there have been conflicting reports of just what type of offense we are looking to run.

Are we going truly going to be a wide open, vertical passing attack? Or are we going to stick to the 'CorpseBall' mentality (i.e. ball control, conservative passing attack). I hope we have a true offensive mindset, but my intuition tells me our offense will resemble the latter given The Corpse's history.

Either way this is a critical year for Edwards and I really hope this franchise don't squander his talent and ability becaise we have gone through way too may QB's the last 10 years and I'd hate to see the carousel spin yet again in 2009.

~The Answer

[justasportsfan]

Not being enough and Dick needing to do things now, are not necessarily going to happen b'cse we will them to. Our O needs to develop certain things - the most important being to have a viable #2 WR. They took steps to recruit and address that, but they can't control how long Hardy takes in developing. Worse comes to worse, they can try to grab a vetern FA WR out there. But any WR worthwhile has already been grabbed and what we could likely get would be no different than moving Reed to #2 which is obviously not the best answer. That is outside Dicks' control - as is Trent's development. I'm not sure there is much more Jauron can do now.

I think Dick (and Marv) did a good job in trying to create and foster an environment of good character personnel and now have to hope that the environment is capable of fostering growth in its players.

Time will tell.
Everything is under Dicks control except for players running over people .

Dick should be held accountable for anything that goes on on the field from decisions to execution . If he can't do that , we need to find someone who can. He's had 3 years. He decided to go with Trent. The only time the entire team should sacrifice due to a developing qb is if we're rebuilding. This is why I was against JP starting when he wasn't ready because the vets didn't have the luxury to start all over again with a rookie Qb.

[mysticsoto]

Everything is under Dicks control except for players running over people .

Dick should be held accountable for anything that goes on on the field from decisions to execution . If he can't do that , we need to find someone who can. He's had 3 years. He decided to go with Trent. The only time the entire team should sacrifice due to a developing qb is if we're rebuilding. This is why I was against JP starting when he wasn't ready because the vets didn't have the luxury to start all over again with a rookie Qb.

Well, the difference is that JP has had years to develop and whether it be Mularkey or whatever that has screwed him up, he just hasn't developed the way anyone here has hoped. As a result, the best decision was to move to another hopeful that may just yet develop into the next franchise QB. What better time than to do it last year when we knew that it would even be tough for us to make playoffs. Franchise QBs are not made overnight though and need to get in practice and experience. So Trent needs to continue (with progress hopefully) but the decision to replace JP was the right one.

Now, none of that guarantees that Trent will develop. But atleast he's given the chance. JP has had many chances and for whatever reasons, just never has. My guess is, JP will either be traded this year or leave and then Jauron will grab another promising QB in next year's draft. How high he grabs one will depend on how good (or bad) Trent looks this year.

Other than that, again, there's really not much Jauron can do except provide an environment for him to develop...

[justasportsfan]

Well, the difference is that JP has had years to develop and whether it be Mularkey or whatever that has screwed him up, he just hasn't developed the way anyone here has hoped. As a result, the best decision was to move to another hopeful that may just yet develop into the next franchise QB. What better time than to do it last year when we knew that it would even be tough for us to make playoffs. Franchise QBs are not made overnight though and need to get in practice and experience. So Trent needs to continue (with progress hopefully) but the decision to replace JP was the right one.

Now, none of that guarantees that Trent will develop. But atleast he's given the chance. JP has had many chances and for whatever reasons, just never has. My guess is, JP will either be traded this year or leave and then Jauron will grab another promising QB in next year's draft. How high he grabs one will depend on how good (or bad) Trent looks this year.

Other than that, again, there's really not much Jauron can do except provide an environment for him to develop...

Dick chose Fairchild, Dick chose to stick with JP instead of drafting Lienert or Cutler . Dick now chose to go with Trent.

He made the decisions. I don't care if Trent is developing. It's not about the players but Dicks decisions. He's had 3 years. It's time to start winning. Trent is no excuse for failing.

[mysticsoto]

Dick chose Fairchild, Dick chose to stick with JP instead of drafting Lienert or Cutler . Dick now chose to go with Trent.

He made the decisions. I don't care if Trent is developing. It's not about the players but Dicks decisions. He's had 3 years. It's time to start winning. Trent is no excuse for failing.
Well here's another thing to keep in mind. If we get rid of Dick, that means another 3-4 years of crap b'cse a new HC means changes everywhere and it likely means rebuilding, change of philosophy, personnel may no longer fit, veterans may get disgruntled and leave, etc.

The last thing we want is to start a cascade of failure. We need stability on this team and we can't just keep changing coaches every 3 years or so.

Jauron has implemented a philosophy here and it's likely to remain for awhile. I myself am not necessarily a lover of the cover 2, but yet it does seem to work and we are commmitted to it so I will support it along with his other philosophies. If we are again the recipients of a losing season, we need to see why b'cse we should have the puzzles in place to atleast reach the playoffs this year. Now, if we have a ton of injuries like last year, am I going to hold that against Jauron? I won't. Others might, but there are things you just can't account for.

Other than that, if we just played crappy all year round, that might be a reason to can him. But barring that (which I can't see happenning), Jauron needs to continue here and give us some stability.

[justasportsfan]

Well here's another thing to keep in mind. If we get rid of Dick, that means another 3-4 years of crap b'cse a new HC means changes everywhere and it likely means rebuilding, change of philosophy, personnel may no longer fit, veterans may get disgruntled and leave, etc.

The last thing we want is to start a cascade of failure. We need stability on this team and we can't just keep changing coaches every 3 years or so.

Jauron has implemented a philosophy here and it's likely to remain for awhile. I myself am not necessarily a lover of the cover 2, but yet it does seem to work and we are commmitted to it so I will support it along with his other philosophies. If we are again the recipients of a losing season, we need to see why b'cse we should have the puzzles in place to atleast reach the playoffs this year. Now, if we have a ton of injuries like last year, am I going to hold that against Jauron? I won't. Others might, but there are things you just can't account for.

Other than that, if we just played crappy all year round, that might be a reason to can him. But barring that (which I can't see happenning), Jauron needs to continue here and give us some stability.


I realize that, but does this mean we should insist on sticking with a loser if he fails this year?

He has everything he was looking for and got everything he asked for. Time to start winning with the decisions he's made . If he doesn't make playoffs. Can him. Time to find someone who can win with what we have.

We can continue to win with continuity but if that doesn' t happen with Dick I don't want to continue to lose with a loser.

We've made fun of Wanny over the years for being an idiot, at least he took the fins to the playoffs. Jauron hasn't done that.

We've made fun of Mularkey, we didn't even give him 3 years. Dick hasn't even won 9 games.

We wanted Wade canned even though we went to the playoffs.

Dick chose Turk. Turk said there would be conintruity in the O. we'll see how that pans out. If Turk fails this time, it's another mistake by Dick and I won't trust him to know how to choose an OC anymore.

[mysticsoto]

I realize that, but does this mean we should insist on sticking with a loser if he fails this year?

He has everything he was looking for and got everything he asked for. Time to start winning with the decisions he's made . If he doesn't make playoffs. Can him. Time to find someone who can win with what we have.

We can continue to win with continuity but if that doesn' t happen with Dick I don't want to continue to lose with a loser.

We've made fun of Wanny over the years for being an idiot, at least he took the fins to the playoffs. Jauron hasn't done that.

We've made fun of Mularkey, we didn't even give him 3 years. Dick hasn't even won 9 games.

We wanted Wade canned even though we went to the playoffs.

Dick chose Turk. Turk said there would be conintruity in the O. we'll see how that pans out. If Turk fails this time, it's another mistake by Dick and I won't trust him to know how to choose an OC anymore.

Like I said, if we don't make the playoffs, then I want to know the reason why before I just can him. Injuries will likely let him off the hook, but let's put things in perspective...season ticket sales are at the highest they've been since our super bowl years. Clearly the fans like atleast some of the things Jauron has done here. Yes, he hasn't won much, but we did have a tough schedule last year and a rash of injuries. So maybe I cut him more slack than you do on last year. This year is a different story as we have an easier schedule and many starters returning from injury. I expect a good year and can't see Dick getting canned unless we have a total breakdown within our teams that I just can't see happening.

Perhaps it's the anti-Op in me, but I just don't think in those negative terms...

[justasportsfan]

Like I said, if we don't make the playoffs, then I want to know the reason why before I just can him. Injuries will likely let him off the hook, but let's put things in perspective...season ticket sales are at the highest they've been since our super bowl years. Clearly the fans like atleast some of the things Jauron has done here. Yes, he hasn't won much, but we did have a tough schedule last year and a rash of injuries. So maybe I cut him more slack than you do on last year. This year is a different story as we have an easier schedule and many starters returning from injury. I expect a good year and can't see Dick getting canned unless we have a total breakdown within our teams that I just can't see happening.

Perhaps it's the anti-Op in me, but I just don't think in those negative terms...


I doubt we will ever have the same amount of injuries we did last year and even then , he didn't do so badly with lesser talent last year.

IF Trent goes down and we lose with Hamdan, Dick get canned.

If Lynch goes down and we lose with whoever takes his place, Dick gets canned.

Playoffs or bust. Screw continuity. Pay Charlie Weiss or overpay some coach like Cowher.

[yordad]

I'll believe it when I see it; it feels like every year we hear something along those lines and it never turns out to be true.Yep. I was just going to quote this when I opened the thread and add , "yep", but i couldn't resist.

First, I agree. Second, I think it is a two way street. If people are going to put the win/loss record on JP, they are going to put it on TE also.
Who isn't putting the W/L record on Edwards? If you lose you lose no matter what your experience is. Seriously? Oh, I don't know... about 60% of the board. Mostly the same guys who wanted to pin losing seasons on JP.

Wins is a team stat, not a QB stat. He can play a flawless game and we can still lose. Get it?
Do I think it is fair? No. Just seems many do. And, I think TE has way less excuses, especially if have of Turks talk comes true.
Who's making excuses for Edwards? If he sucks he sucks, but that doesn't mean we need to screw up and pull him after three games like we did with Losman. All that does is **** him up mentally. What is the world are you going on about? Do you have selective reading, about 98% of the board makes excuses for him. Heck, I do too. And, if he sucks you want to leave him in? Um... not me. I do not think JP is **** mentally. Gez. I don't understand how you want to pin loses on him, then leave him in if he sucks. :idunno:

[yordad]

Playoffs or bust. Screw continuity. Pay Charlie Weiss or overpay some coach like Cowher.
Justa, If we fire Dick, his replacement is probably already here. So be careful what you wish for. I'm all for Cowher, but we both know that is a pipe dream. A crack pipe dream.

[gr8slayer]

Yep. I was just going to quote this when I opened the thread and add , "yep", but i couldn't resist.
Gez. I don't understand how you want to pin loses on him, then leave him in if he sucks. :idunno:
You clearly don't understand the fact that QB's don't just become Peyton Manning overnight. Question.... Do you have any real football experience other than being an arm chair QB? You don't seem to understand much that's football related....

[yordad]

You clearly don't understand the fact that QB's don't just become Peyton Manning overnight. Question.... Do you have any real football experience other than being an arm chair QB? You don't seem to understand much that's football related....LOL, Make up your mind, now your making excuses. You just got done typing "If you lose you lose no matter what your experience is."

You clearly don't understand I don't think you sacrifice the team to develop your second most talented QB, especially if he sucks. Spare me the "I work in the business" speech.

You have just type yourself in circles. Did you learn that scouting?

Edit: :popcorn:

[gr8slayer]

LOL, Make up your mind, now your making excuses. You just got done typing "If you lose you lose no matter what your experience is."
There's nothing wrong with that statement. Losman has lost plenty of games and you still want him in right? Losman is done as a Bill, Edwards is our future and we need to begin building around our franchise QB. Some QB's take years to develop into SB caliber QB's, some get it right away. Edwards might need a couple of years, he may have just needed last year. Either way he's our QB now and he will be the rest of the year and for the foreseeable future.
You clearly don't understand I don't think you sacrifice the team to develop your second most talented QB, especially if he sucks. Spare me the "I work in the business" speech.
You clearly don't understand that talent doesn't win football games. Who says we are sacrificing anything? If we have to "sacrifice" this year to turn Edwards into a franchise QB then start "sacrificing." It's well worth it to land something that every team NEEDS if they want to win for multiple years.
You have just type yourself in circles. Did you learn that scouting?
Have you read your own posts? You lack the ability to be unbiased and thus have no credibility.

[yordad]

LOL, Make up your mind, now your making excuses. You just got done typing "If you lose you lose no matter what your experience is."
There's nothing wrong with that statement. Losman has lost plenty of games and you still want him in right? Losman is done as a Bill, Edwards is our future and we need to begin building around our franchise QB. Some QB's take years to develop into SB caliber QB's, some get it right away. Edwards might need a couple of years, he may have just needed last year. Either way he's our QB now and he will be the rest of the year and for the foreseeable future.
I explained this once. Already. In this thread. Wins is a team stat. I was using your words against you. I wasn't using my words against you. Plus, I think it is strange your argument in favor of TE is the same argument you have against JP. Is there a magic line somewhere?
You clearly don't understand I don't think you sacrifice the team to develop your second most talented QB, especially if he sucks. Spare me the "I work in the business" speech.
You clearly don't understand that talent doesn't win football games. Who says we are sacrificing anything? If we have to "sacrifice" this year to turn Edwards into a franchise QB then start "sacrificing." It's well worth it to land something that every team NEEDS if they want to win for multiple years. Yeah, I guess I missed that one. Let me make an announcement for the people at home:

"HEY EVERYONE. TALENT DOESN'T WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. IN FACT, I GUESS IT DOESN'T EVEN FACTOR IN. SO, ALL OF YOU TALENTLESS, SMART PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF HEART, JUST DRIVE ON UP TO BUFFALO. WE COULD SURE YOU YOU"

You are assuming several thing. TE will be a franchise QB. It will only take one year. And, JP will never be a franchise QB. All those assumptions, and I am the biased one?

You have just type yourself in circles. Did you learn that scouting?
Have you read your own posts? You lack the ability to be unbiased and thus have no credibility. Have you read my post? I speak in facts. I speak is objectivity. I try not to use subjectiveness at all when making a point. I have to assume you have me confused with someone else with the same user name and avatar, because I rarely use emotion and I rarely speculate. Just because words like "he looks" and "poised" aren't in my argument doesn't mean I am not objective. I have always said I think TE could be a solid 8. You act like I'm hatin' on the guy.

I mean, you are basically saying "I haven't seen enough of Trent, so lets live or die with him". Who is losing credibility again? And, I think we are done here, if anyone is keeping score I think I won in a skunk (7-0), and seeing how I don't have "credibility" with you, and seeing how I don't really care, I see no need to continue. [/i]:up:

[gr8slayer]

Yeah, I guess I missed that one. Let me make an announcement for the people at home:

"HEY EVERYONE. TALENT DOESN'T WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. IN FACT, I GUESS IT DOESN'T EVEN FACTOR IN. SO, ALL OF YOU TALENTLESS, SMART PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF HEART, JUST DRIVE ON UP TO BUFFALO. WE COULD SURE YOU YOU"Talent is a small part of what wins football games. Give me brains over talent any day.


Have you read my post? I speak in facts. I speak is objectivity. I try not to use subjectiveness at all when making a point. I have to assume you have me confused with someone else with the same user name and avatar, because I rarely use emotion and I rarely speculate. Just because words like "he looks" and "poised" aren't in my argument doesn't mean I am not objective. I have always said I think TE could be a solid 8. You act like I'm hatin' on the guy.

I mean, you are basically saying "I haven't seen enough of Trent, so lets live or die with him". Who is losing credibility again? And, I think we are done here, if anyone is keeping score I think I won in a skunk (7-0), and seeing how I don't have "credibility" with you, and seeing how I don't really care, I see no need to continue.
You are about as objective as Fox News and CNN when talking politics. It's not that we haven't seen enough of Edwards, it's that we've seen enough of Losman. Losman has had his chances, he had multiple opportunities this season alone to solidify himself as the #1 QB and he didn't take advantage of the opportunity. He's had his three years alloted to all rookies to at least show improvement and he has failed to do so. This is where the satisfaction with mediocrity comes in....

Are you aware that last year the coaches only gave Losman seven plays to run every game because he couldn't get the play book figured out? Are you aware that Losman has looked disinterested in football since he lost the starting job? Are you aware that he no longer lives in the film room like he once did? Are you aware that he no longer stays 2 hours after every practice to try and work with his WR's? Are you aware that he has started to separate himself from the team since losing his starting job?

Sounds like my kind of QB; a real leader and field general.

[yordad]

OK I guess I am bored enough to continue...
Talent is a small part of what wins football games. Give me brains over talent any day. Brains over talent? LOL, that is silly. Especially considering brains is also a talent.


You are about as objective as Fox News and CNN when talking politics. It's not that we haven't seen enough of Edwards, it's that we've seen enough of Losman. Losman has had his chances, he had multiple opportunities this season alone to solidify himself as the #1 QB and he didn't take advantage of the opportunity. So lets just give it to someone else who did nothing to take it? He's had his three years alloted to all rookies to at least show improvement and he has failed to do so. Oh, so that is where the magic line is. Thanks for clarifing. And, I didn't realize taking one of the most talentless teams in the league to an 8-8 record as one of the higer rated QBs his first year starting was actually a step backwards. This is where the satisfaction with mediocrity comes in And, your solution is to strt the guy that proved less. Great....

Are you aware that last year the coaches only gave Losman seven plays to run every game because he couldn't get the play book figured out? Yeah, but they gave him Wizard of Oz slippers too right? In case he was about to get sacked he was just supposed to click his heals together. Dang those slippers they never work. I actaully blame the magic slippers shoe factory. LINK Are you aware that Losman has looked disinterested in football since he lost the starting job? Yeah, that IS objective. CUT HIM, I THINK HE LOOKS DISINTERESTED Are you aware that he no longer lives in the film room like he once did? Oh, so you want to cut him for the guy who lives in Cali? Sweet logic. Are you aware that he no longer stays 2 hours after every practice to try and work with his WR's Well, if you were aware you weren't in the teams long term plans, would you? Are you aware that he has started to separate himself from the team since losing his starting job? Ahem, LINK

Are you aware this is all speculation? Being the football genius you are, I am sure you can come up with something more objective and substantial other the "well, I think he looks a bit...."

Sounds like my kind of QB; a real leader and field general. Ahem, the guy was ELECTED team captain. Ahem, the team made pretty clear he wasn't in their long term plans. And, Ahem, he is the backup. How many team leading field general backups can you name? OK, man. So I am biased. If wanting what I think is best for my team makes me biased, then so be it.

One last question, if a guy enters his fourth year, and hasn't started a game yet, is it safe to assume he will never amount to anything?

[yordad]

LOL, Make up your mind, now your making excuses. You just got done typing "If you lose you lose no matter what your experience is."

You clearly don't understand I don't think you sacrifice the team to develop your second most talented QB, especially if he sucks. Spare me the "I work in the business" speech.

You have just type yourself in circles. Did you learn that scouting?
I WANT TO POINT IT OUT FOR ALL TO SEE, GR8SLAYER NEG REPPED ME BECAUSE HE CONTRADICTED HIMSELF AND I POINTED IT OUT TO HIM.

SO EVERYONE, BEWARE, DON'T POINT OUT HIS STUPID POST. DON'T POINT OUT WHEN HE TALKS HIMSELF IN CIRCLES. BECAUSE ALTHOUGH I AM SURE SOME PART OF HIS "POST" ARE SMALL, HE HAS MORE REP THEN MOST.

LOOK OUT. YOU MIGHT BE TOLD YOU HAVE NO FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE JUST FOR POINTING OUT HE CAN'T MAKE UP HIS MIND!

<table class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody id="collapseobj_usercp_reputation" style=""><tr><td class="alt2">http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</td> <td class="alt1Active" id="p2487751" width="50%">Great story on our... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2487751#post2487751)</td> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap">06-16-2008 06:37 PM</td> <td class="alt1" nowrap="nowrap">gr8slayer (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=4738)</td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">Wow, you have absolutely no clue.... - gr8slayer</td></tr></tbody></table>

[hydro]

Wow, I can see why you got banned from another bills board. Talk about getting fired up over nothing.

Having brains is a talent :roflmao:

[yordad]

Wow, I can see why you got banned from another bills board. Talk about getting fired up over nothing.

Having brains is a talent :roflmao:<cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)</cite> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=talent&ia=luna) - <cite>Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/talent#sharethis)</cite> <!-- google_ad_section_start(name=def) --> tal&#183;ent http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png <script type="text/javascript"> // <![CDATA[ var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "18", "http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/ (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/)", "6"); interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high"); interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t"); interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FT00%2FT0031600.mp3"); interfaceflash.write(); // ]]> </script><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf" id="speaker" quality="high" loop="false" menu="false" salign="t" flashvars="soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FT00%2FT0031600.mp3" align="top" height="18" width="17"><noscript>http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/T00/T0031600)</noscript> Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html) /ˈt&#230;lhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngənt/ Pronunciation Key (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/)[tal-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnt] Pronunciation Key (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) –noun <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td><td valign="top">a special natural ability or aptitude</td></tr></tbody></table>6.a power of mind or body considered as given to a person for use and improvement:

I know more football then most. And, telling someone they don't know it, just because you talked yourself into circles, when it was barely even football related (it was actually more reading comprehension related) is just insulting. <cite></cite> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html)

[The Answer]

Wow, I can see why you got banned from another bills board. Talk about getting fired up over nothing.

Having brains is a talent :roflmao:

Glad to see somebody else here recognizes that.

Don't let yordad's clever facade fool you - he tries his best to masquerade as an 'unbiased' poster here in regards to the QB situation, but if you knew his history on bb.com you'd be privy to one of the biggest losman trolls ever known.

Clearly his true colors are starting to show....

~The Answer

[Al the Bills Fan]

Great story, I am so excited for this season to start! Going to 2 game and getting Sunday ticket so I don't miss it!

[justasportsfan]

... Do you have any real football experience other than being an arm chair QB? You don't seem to understand much that's football related....
you don't have to have experience in playing football to know football.

[justasportsfan]

Wow, I can see why you got banned from another bills board. Talk about getting fired up over nothing.:

Having brains is a talent :roflmao:

you shouldn't talk and this has got nothing to do with whats being argued .

[hydro]

you shouldn't talk and this has got nothing to do with whats being argued .

Coming from you makes this even more hilarious. I have never got warning points in my time here at the zone. Can you say the same thing?

[yordad]

Glad to see somebody else here recognizes that.

Don't let yordad's clever facade fool you - he tries his best to masquerade as an 'unbiased' poster here in regards to the QB situation, but if you knew his history on bb.com you'd be privy to one of the biggest losman trolls ever known.

Clearly his true colors are starting to show....

~The AnswerMasquerading as an unbiased poster? Read my post. If the post is unbiased, doesn't that make me an unbiased poster?

You calling me a troll is pretty funny. You calling be biased is actually making me laugh. Literally. I think you managed one adjective I would agree with- "Clever", and thanks.

Just because you have a fetish for Digi and hate Poz, doesn't mean you should project your irrational feelings onto fellow posters.

[justasportsfan]

Coming from you makes this even more hilarious. I have never got warning points in my time here at the zone. Can you say the same thing?difference is,I can admit it. I don't go around yelling "teacher, justa did it" . I know I'm not tight with the mods like you are. I don't :kissa: and lie to them.

[acehole]

Coming from you makes this even more hilarious. I have never got warning points in my time here at the zone. Can you say the same thing?

Dont ruin this thread.

Stay on topic.

[hydro]

Dont ruin this thread.

Stay on topic.

What is it again?

[The Answer]

Masquerading as an unbiased poster? Read my post. If the post is unbiased, doesn't that make me an unbiased poster?

You calling me a troll is pretty funny. You calling be biased is actually making me laugh. Literally. I think you managed one adjective I would agree with- "Clever", and thanks.

Just because you have a fetish for Digi and hate Poz, doesn't mean you should project your irrational feelings onto fellow posters.

I don't hate Poz - I just wasn't a fan of drafting him and I don't believe he has proven to be a better LB than The Digi at this point. I do hope that he stays healthy and contributes in 2008, whether as starter or back up.

Just admit that you are pro-Losman and stop dancing around the QB topic. Form an opinion and stick with it - obviously I'm pro Edwards and don't hide that fact.

~The Answer

[yordad]

Sticking with formed opinions is what makes one biased. I want Edwards to prove to me he is better then JP. You want Poz to fail, "and don't hide that fact".

I think I have made it perfectly clear I think JP is the better QB. I formed this opinion after looking at it objectively. I formed this opinion based on what I feel is better for the Bills.

How you could possibly objectively think Digi starting over Poz is best for the team is beyond me. And, I honestly really don't care.

Don't pretend you know me.

[The Answer]

Sticking with formed opinions is what makes one biased. I want Edwards to prove to me he is better then JP. You want Poz to fail, "and don't hide that fact".

I think I have made it perfectly clear I think JP is the better QB. I formed this opinion after looking at it objectively. I formed this opinion based on what I feel is better for the Bills.

How you could possibly objectively think Digi starting over Poz is best for the team is beyond me. And, I honestly really don't care.

Don't pretend you know me.

1) Edwards has already proved to be the better qb based on his success as a rookie compared to a 4 year veterans. Also the Bills owner, front office and coaching staff feels the same way as I do.

2) I have never posted anything on this board that stated I wanted to Poz to fail, only my opinions regarding who should be starting at MLB.

3) I don't know you as a person, but I know your MO and posting history on bb.com - you were permenantly banned for spamming/trolling.

~The Answer

[justasportsfan]

:movie:

[yordad]

1) Edwards has already proved to be the better qb based on his success as a rookie compared to a 4 year veterans. Also the Bills owner, front office and coaching staff feels the same way as I do.

2) I have never posted anything on this board that stated I wanted to Poz to fail, only my opinions regarding who should be starting at MLB.

3) I don't know you as a person, but I know your MO and posting history on bb.com - you were permenantly banned for spamming/trolling.

~The AnswerYou have no idea why I was banned.

And, since your going on libeling my screen name I will share with everyone the ridiculous reason I was banned.

I said, "I hope the Bills ride Dick all the way to the playoffs".

So stick a sock in it.

[justasportsfan]

I said, "I hope the Bills ride Dick all the way to the playoffs".

. It's bb.com. They don't have a sense of humor.


Oh wait... wth? Another warning for me? where did this come from?

[Ingtar33]

There's no doubt that it's all on Edwards' shoulders. If he sucks this year we're going to suck, our entire season rests on him removing his head from his rear this year and playing like an NFL QB. But just like any young QB it might take a few years.

i don't know, we did ok (7-9) last year with crappy qb play, terrible defense, terrible offense, and terrible injuries.

even if trent has a bad year, we still might be able to manage 8-8 or 9-7... baring crippling injuries.