Wyche on Losman [Archive] - BillsZone.com

raphael120

06-27-2008, 12:57 PM

“I think J.P.’s got the arm, the quick feet and the escapability. When he came into the league he had to learn the presence of the game, the timing, how long he could hold onto that ball, when to get rid of it and lay it off to a secondary receiver. Plus the learning you have to do in terms of recognizing defenses. In college you don’t see as many as you do in the pros. He’s been through that now. I haven’t been around him the last couple of years so I don’t know how far along he’s come, but when I left I know he had the God-given skills. He’s certainly smart enough. He’s an intriguing guy in terms of the charisma aspect and the players like him and like being around him. So he’s got all the parts it just has to be put together the right way. Part of that is being put on a team that complements that particular guy’s talents. Those teams are out there and the best thing that his agent can do for him is try to find that team and get him there.”

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

yeah, alot of people have god given abilities they just can't put it all together, such as it is for Losman. look at all the football players that have faded out of existence because they had all the measurables but not the ability to be great on the football field on gameday.

justasportsfan

06-27-2008, 01:00 PM

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

yeah, alot of people have god given abilities they just can't put it all together, such as it is for Losman. look at all the football players that have faded out of existence because they had all the measurables but not the ability to be great on the football field on gameday.
I blame Fairchild. I don't care if you're Manning . if you have an OC that puts you in a situation to fail, you will fail.

Oaf

06-27-2008, 01:11 PM

ZBs says he plays in 08. Not that I want him to, but I see him playing around 2 games due to injury then who knows what. He's done good so far keeping a low profile in Mini camps.

acehole

06-27-2008, 01:21 PM

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

yeah, alot of people have god given abilities they just can't put it all together, such as it is for Losman. look at all the football players that have faded out of existence because they had all the measurables but not the ability to be great on the football field on gameday.

What jp did not have is he is not thier guy...plain and simple.

justasportsfan

06-27-2008, 01:33 PM

What jp did not have is he is not thier guy...plain and simple.

not at this point at least. Trent is the typical QB that Dick likes. Ball control type of qb.

The coaches know JP has deep game ability. I think they're keeping him to see if he can improve on his short/ball control game.

If Trent on the other hand does not gain the consistent ability to have a deep game or the ability to make teams pay when their D plays the short passing game, his job won't be safe if JP learns how to become a ball control type of qb to go with his proven deep game.

This is why Trent needs to go practice with Evans like he said he would.

Both qb's are different. ONe can make you pay deep while the other has better bal control short passing game. They both need to learn the other qb's strength.

The Answer

06-27-2008, 01:34 PM

What jp did not have is he is not thier guy...plain and simple.

I will agree that part of the reason for JP's demise was that Levy and The Corpse had it out from him since day one because he was part of the previous regime's mess. No arguement there.

But again - JP had multiple chances to prove himself, especially in 2007 when he knew that he needed to take the next step and prove he was the guy knowing they drafted a QB in the 3rd round - but even as training camp started, it was clear that Edwards was the best QB on the roster and it wasn't even close. But the front office and coaching staff still gave JP the starting job - and even a 2nd chance when Trent was injured.

~The Answer

justasportsfan

06-27-2008, 01:38 PM

But again - JP had multiple chances to prove himself, especially in 2007 when he knew that he needed to take the next step and prove he was the guy knowing they drafted a QB in the 3rd round - but even as training camp started, it was clear that Edwards was the best QB on the roster and it wasn't even close. But the front office and coaching staff still gave JP the starting job - and even a 2nd chance when Trent was injured.

~The Answer

I will say this once since it's been said several times, even Trent would've failed under the same circumstances JP was in. Why do you think our FO brought in OL (regardless of who the qb was) and more weapons for Trent (weapons JP never had)

ddaryl

06-27-2008, 01:46 PM

JP's position on the Bills is his own doing IMO... Sure Fairchild hasn't handled him 100% correctly... but the fact is JP had just way to many games where he barely threw for 100yds ... Nor did he appear to be able to process his reads fast enough

I will root for JP whenever he steps in to be the Bills QB, and I still hope the light comes on for him... in fact I like JP enough to follow his post Bills career and wish him well if thats what happens.

BUT like most here I agree he just didn't show the improvement necessary to allow him to have the strarter position.. if anythingn he'll have to re-earn it, and fight off the belief by many that any success he does have can not be sustained.

TacklingDummy

06-27-2008, 01:48 PM

JP had the same weapons.

with JP 10-21
without JP 9-8

That's really all we need to know.

justasportsfan

06-27-2008, 01:56 PM

JP's position on the Bills is his own doing IMO... Sure Fairchild hasn't handled him 100% correctly... but the fact is JP had just way to many games where he barely threw for 100yds ... Nor did he appear to be able to process his reads fast enough

.
who was he going to throw to when teams clamped down on Evans? Why do you think the FO brought in more weapons for Trent? Just so that the same thing doesn't happen to Trent when teams figure him out. Unlike JP, Trent will have more options.

It was all Fairchilds doing. Even willis who wasn't known for his hands was a target in the ravens passing game in his first year with the team.

The Answer

06-27-2008, 02:50 PM

I will say this once since it's been said several times, even Trent would've failed under the same circumstances JP was in. Why do you think our FO brought in OL (regardless of who the qb was) and more weapons for Trent (weapons JP never had)

Most QB's are not going to have any kind of success under in the gadgetman (mularkey) offensive system. But then again Kordell Stewart who's talent level is comparable to JP, was able to have a few decent years and at least make the playoffs.

But regardless of the circustances or lack of talent, if you are a good QB that understands NFL defenses than you are going to make plays and put up numbers regardless of the win/loss record. And I just didn't see JP as that type of QB. Sure he had a nice long ball, but when he was bad - he was really bad, especially against playoff teams. And even when he looked good, the teams in questions weren't anything to write home about.

Plus you have to look at his progress year to year:

2004 - rode the bench and was injured half the year, had a few appearances in garbage time. Rookie year so gets pass regardless.

2005 - Benched after 1-3 start, reinserted over nice game against the chiefs, only to sputter and be benched again for the remainder of season. Had a 1-7 record overall, but did come in against the chiefs and played well even though Holcomb started.

2006 - JP's best season, ranked #11 in terms of QB rating. 7-9 record highlighed by comeback win at Texans and win on the road against playoff bound Jets. When playoffs were on the line in final two weeks, made a lot of bad plays that cost us those games.

2007 - Horrendous 0-3 start, enter Trent and we get right back in the mix, exit Trent and re-enter JP and he has nice game against bengals, barely beats winless dolphins, destroyed by the pats and jags, and re-enter Trent. Likely end of JP's Bills career as we know it.

The window of opportunity to win a championship in is this league is a small one and The Corpse and front office know that, and QB is the most important position on the team so why not spin the carousel again because based on Losman's career progression it's highly unlikely he is going to get any better.

~The Answer

LtBillsFan66

06-27-2008, 02:50 PM

Sounds like PR to create trade bait.

ddaryl

06-27-2008, 03:04 PM

who was he going to throw to when teams clamped down on Evans? Why do you think the FO brought in more weapons for Trent? Just so that the same thing doesn't happen to Trent when teams figure him out. Unlike JP, Trent will have more options.

It was all Fairchilds doing. Even willis who wasn't known for his hands was a target in the ravens passing game in his first year with the team.

You have to shine or show improvement with whatever you have to work with...

JP basically had the same set of players to play with for a couple of years and regressed. Yes I do agree that JP didn't have the same advantage that Trent had in his 1st year... but he also didn't shine last year when he and Trent shared the same team...

The ball is only in JP's court and all he can do is take advantange of any and all opportunites he gets to redeem himslef. This is JP's battle, and if he does prevail in his opportunites then it will demonstrate a mental toughness that many say JP lacks.

I'm all for JP winning back the job, but he has to shine, and can not struggle when his opportunity developes... JP has to earn it and fight twice as hard for it... only then can he regain the confidence of Bills fans coaches and management...

No more debating for me.. that's my full opinion on JP's and his chances to ever regain the starting job

John Doe

06-27-2008, 03:33 PM

I don't believe in the theory that coaches are hell-bent on playing a QB just because they drafted him.

Coaches want to win. They will play the QB who they believe gives them the best chance to win.

X-Era

06-27-2008, 05:17 PM

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

yeah, alot of people have god given abilities they just can't put it all together, such as it is for Losman. look at all the football players that have faded out of existence because they had all the measurables but not the ability to be great on the football field on gameday.

Ryan Leaf
Jeff George
Mike Vick

Thats a quick list of similar situations

X-Era

06-27-2008, 05:18 PM

I don't believe in the theory that coaches are hell-bent on playing a QB just because they drafted him.

Coaches want to win. They will play the QB who they believe gives them the best chance to win.

I agree, I think they get sucked into believing a player has all the right tools... that they arent the best talent evaluators all the time.

gr8slayer

06-27-2008, 05:46 PM

He was set up to fail from the start and he did. Time to move on.

acehole

06-27-2008, 07:32 PM

I am ok with the below.

I will just add not the best chance possible or ideal situation to develope a qb...and I think the bust label is premature. We shall see...

I will agree that part of the reason for JP's demise was that Levy and The Corpse had it out from him since day one because he was part of the previous regime's mess. No arguement there.

But again - JP had multiple chances to prove himself, especially in 2007 when he knew that he needed to take the next step and prove he was the guy knowing they drafted a QB in the 3rd round - but even as training camp started, it was clear that Edwards was the best QB on the roster and it wasn't even close. But the front office and coaching staff still gave JP the starting job - and even a 2nd chance when Trent was injured.

~The Answer

justasportsfan

06-27-2008, 09:51 PM

You have to shine or show improvement with whatever you have to work with...

JP basically had the same set of players to play with for a couple of years and regressed. Yes I do agree that JP didn't have the same advantage that Trent had in his 1st year... but he also didn't shine last year when he and Trent shared the same team...

The ball is only in JP's court and all he can do is take advantange of any and all opportunites he gets to redeem himslef. This is JP's battle, and if he does prevail in his opportunites then it will demonstrate a mental toughness that many say JP lacks.

I'm all for JP winning back the job, but he has to shine, and can not struggle when his opportunity developes... JP has to earn it and fight twice as hard for it... only then can he regain the confidence of Bills fans coaches and management...

No more debating for me.. that's my full opinion on JP's and his chances to ever regain the starting job teams are able to adjust and plan against you. Your OC should have a back up plan when they do. Fairchild didn't.
Why do you think Drew regressed after his first probowl season with the bills?IF a seasoned vet like Drew couldn't improve with what he had you can't expect an unexperienced qb who in his 3rd year in a new system to improve. You can't expect a developing qb to develop with a horrid OL.Again ,not even Drew could do anything.

Why do you think the Pats needed to bring in moss and Welker? Because they knew they could'nt do much without bringing in more talent. THey needed to retool because teams were going to learn how to beat them with what they had.

Even the colts have to upgrade every year.

justasportsfan

06-27-2008, 09:57 PM

Most QB's are not going to have any kind of success under in the gadgetman (mularkey) offensive system. But then again Kordell Stewart who's talent level is comparable to JP, was able to have a few decent years and at least make the playoffs.

But regardless of the circustances or lack of talent, if you are a good QB that understands NFL defenses than you are going to make plays and put up numbers regardless of the win/loss record. And I just didn't see JP as that type of QB. Sure he had a nice long ball, but when he was bad - he was really bad, especially against playoff teams. And even when he looked good, the teams in questions weren't anything to write home about.

Plus you have to look at his progress year to year:

2004 - rode the bench and was injured half the year, had a few appearances in garbage time. Rookie year so gets pass regardless.

2005 - Benched after 1-3 start, reinserted over nice game against the chiefs, only to sputter and be benched again for the remainder of season. Had a 1-7 record overall, but did come in against the chiefs and played well even though Holcomb started.

2006 - JP's best season, ranked #11 in terms of QB rating. 7-9 record highlighed by comeback win at Texans and win on the road against playoff bound Jets. When playoffs were on the line in final two weeks, made a lot of bad plays that cost us those games.

2007 - Horrendous 0-3 start, enter Trent and we get right back in the mix, exit Trent and re-enter JP and he has nice game against bengals, barely beats winless dolphins, destroyed by the pats and jags, and re-enter Trent. Likely end of JP's Bills career as we know it.

The window of opportunity to win a championship in is this league is a small one and The Corpse and front office know that, and QB is the most important position on the team so why not spin the carousel again because based on Losman's career progression it's highly unlikely he is going to get any better.

~The Answer
MUlarkey wasn't the HC. Cowher was . They also had Bettis in his prime. THey didn't have an OL with a converted udrfa as their best OLman .You're comparing apples and oranges

mayotm

06-28-2008, 06:22 AM

Most QB's are not going to have any kind of success under in the gadgetman (mularkey) offensive system. But then again Kordell Stewart who's talent level is comparable to JP, was able to have a few decent years and at least make the playoffs.

But regardless of the circustances or lack of talent, if you are a good QB that understands NFL defenses than you are going to make plays and put up numbers regardless of the win/loss record. And I just didn't see JP as that type of QB. Sure he had a nice long ball, but when he was bad - he was really bad, especially against playoff teams. And even when he looked good, the teams in questions weren't anything to write home about.

Plus you have to look at his progress year to year:

2004 - rode the bench and was injured half the year, had a few appearances in garbage time. Rookie year so gets pass regardless.

2005 - Benched after 1-3 start, reinserted over nice game against the chiefs, only to sputter and be benched again for the remainder of season. Had a 1-7 record overall, but did come in against the chiefs and played well even though Holcomb started.

2006 - JP's best season, ranked #11 in terms of QB rating. 7-9 record highlighed by comeback win at Texans and win on the road against playoff bound Jets. When playoffs were on the line in final two weeks, made a lot of bad plays that cost us those games.

2007 - Horrendous 0-3 start, enter Trent and we get right back in the mix, exit Trent and re-enter JP and he has nice game against bengals, barely beats winless dolphins, destroyed by the pats and jags, and re-enter Trent. Likely end of JP's Bills career as we know it.

The window of opportunity to win a championship in is this league is a small one and The Corpse and front office know that, and QB is the most important position on the team so why not spin the carousel again because based on Losman's career progression it's highly unlikely he is going to get any better.

~The AnswerWow. That was actually a fairly rationale assessment of Losman's career thus far.

Jan Reimers

06-28-2008, 07:58 AM

Meathead

06-28-2008, 08:07 AM

it is just as likely that edwards will crash and burn as it is he will succeed as the designated starter

it is also just as likely that losman will tear it up as it is he will continue to struggle when he gets his next chance here - which he will

should be fun to see what happens

acehole

06-28-2008, 08:30 AM

This is exactly my sentament.

After all the stat sifting and claims of busts or Joe Mantanna's...

The season is around the corner and shall reveal all.

it is just as likely that edwards will crash and burn as it is he will succeed as the designated starter

it is also just as likely that losman will tear it up as it is he will continue to struggle when he gets his next chance here - which he will

should be fun to see what happens

TacklingDummy

06-28-2008, 08:30 AM

Let's just hope Trent does well. If he doesn't that probably will mean that the Bills will suck yet again.

acehole

06-28-2008, 08:34 AM

Agree 1000% I was in the NY market and the fans sound just like they did with JP as with Eli..."He is a bust" ...."He will never be like his brother" .."We gave up to much for him"...."Stupid".....The Giants did the right thing...got him a line a deffense and weapons and a good coordinator and time.

Never say never ...but I think you are right on this one.

They will live and die by Trent.

So be it.

I still think JP may become a good, and perhaps better-than-good, QB in this league. In fact, he has the tools to be great.

But he needs the right situation, and a coaching staff like the Giants' that will leave him out there (like they did with Eli) to take his lumps, learn, and gain the confidence he needs to become an accomplished NFL QB.

But unless Trent really falls on his face, and JP comes in and has immediate success, it will never happen in Buffalo.

TacklingDummy

06-28-2008, 08:40 AM

good coordinator and time.

Bills fans ran Kevin Gilbride out of town. Now he's a good coordinator. The hypocrisy in this place is running wild lately.

Meathead

06-28-2008, 08:55 AM

ok i would love to see edwards do well but it would also be really cool if jp got a another shot and did really well this time

and as weird as it is to say, it would be better if that was due to an edwards injury, hopefully very minor, and that he too was doing well before being forced out

could happen

djjimkelly

06-28-2008, 11:36 AM

I will agree that part of the reason for JP's demise was that Levy and The Corpse had it out from him since day one because he was part of the previous regime's mess. No arguement there.

But again - JP had multiple chances to prove himself, especially in 2007 when he knew that he needed to take the next step and prove he was the guy knowing they drafted a QB in the 3rd round - but even as training camp started, it was clear that Edwards was the best QB on the roster and it wasn't even close. But the front office and coaching staff still gave JP the starting job - and even a 2nd chance when Trent was injured.

~The Answer

to be honest in 2006 JP played rather well for the most part going 7-9 with i dont care what anyone says 2 sure losses vs the patriots along with the 32nd ranked D in the nfl.

but this staff GM and so on dont want him its a shame because talent should prevail everytime no matter what you do in life.

but this story of JP and the bills still isnt over so we will see what happens.

we can just add JP to the long list of buffalo 1st rounders and difference makers that never see a 2nd contract in buffalo.

djjimkelly

06-28-2008, 11:40 AM

I still think JP may become a good, and perhaps better-than-good, QB in this league. In fact, he has the tools to be great.

But he needs the right situation, and a coaching staff like the Giants' that will leave him out there (like they did with Eli) to take his lumps, learn, and gain the confidence he needs to become an accomplished NFL QB.

But unless Trent really falls on his face, and JP comes in and has immediate success, it will never happen in Buffalo.

just think if we actually had a HC that understood this from the day bledsoe left.

we would have a JP with 48 starts under his belt

instead of going through the joke we have gone through

48 starts we would know 100% instead of what we have now a qb that took major steps in 2006 and one that was set up to fail miserably in 2007.

PECKERWOOD

06-28-2008, 11:43 AM

I blame Fairchild. I don't care if you're Manning . if you have an OC that puts you in a situation to fail, you will fail.

absolutely

jmb1099

06-28-2008, 11:55 AM

acehole

06-28-2008, 01:00 PM

Bills fans ran Kevin Gilbride out of town. Now he's a good coordinator. The hypocrisy in this place is running wild lately.

gilbride had no o-line to run his hybrid run and shoot which takes plays a while to develope.

TacklingDummy

06-28-2008, 05:06 PM

gilbride had no o-line to run his hybrid run and shoot which takes plays a while to develope.

Eli and the Giants ran the run and shoot? :huh: That's news to me.

TDummy actually wanted Gilbride as the head coach over Gregg Williams.

acehole

06-28-2008, 06:44 PM

Eli and the Giants ran the run and shoot? :huh: That's news to me.

TDummy actually wanted Gilbride as the head coach over Gregg Williams.

Gilbride is a chuck and duck disciple.

TacklingDummy

06-28-2008, 07:11 PM

Gilbride is a chuck and duck disciple.

He would have been a better choice than Williams, Mularkey, and Jauron.

Mr. Cynical

06-29-2008, 01:44 AM

:deadhorse:

TE is our QB. Move along.

acehole

06-29-2008, 02:19 AM

:deadhorse:

TE is our QB. Move along.

Until he sucks it up or gets hurt

PECKERWOOD

06-29-2008, 12:50 PM

:deadhorse:

TE is our QB. Move along.

You're 100% correct for now, but what happens when he gets injured? Do we keep Losman on the bench so we can watch the Palestinian Pistol throw bombs down the field or do we play him?

justasportsfan

06-30-2008, 08:26 AM

Bills fans ran Kevin Gilbride out of town. Now he's a good coordinator. The hypocrisy in this place is running wild lately.
he did suck while he was here. BUt nothing was worse than Fairchild.

justasportsfan

06-30-2008, 08:28 AM

There is little doubt in my mind that Losman was mishandled in what might have been his most formative period. But there is also little doubt in my mind that it is up to him to rise above that and at the very least be consistent. He failed to do that. It could very well be he simply needs a change of scenery, for his sake I hope that's the case. All that being said the qb debate is over for me.
you can't be consistent when you don't have consistency in playcalling. Turk himself said it. Fairchild would not call what they praticed during the week. Trent would've failed miserably if he even lived through 1 year under the same conditions.

mybills

06-30-2008, 08:54 AM

Both qb's are different. One can make you pay deep while the other has better bal control short passing game. They both need to learn the other qb's strength.
This thread should've ended right here. :bf1:

djjimkelly

06-30-2008, 10:37 AM

you can't be consistent when you don't have consistency in playcalling. Turk himself said it. Fairchild would not call what they praticed during the week. Trent would've failed miserably if he even lived through 1 year under the same conditions.

to win in this league u need consistent play not only from QB but O LINE DEFENSE and a solid base of coaching,

whether we speaking of the JP or the bills as a hole we rarely have had more then 1 of the things going for us on any given week for the last several years

acehole

06-30-2008, 10:48 AM

to win in this league u need consistent play not only from QB but O LINE DEFENSE and a solid base of coaching,

whether we speaking of the JP or the bills as a hole we rarely have had more then 1 of the things going for us on any given week for the last several years

Oh god why can't folks get this simple point.

HHURRICANE

06-30-2008, 11:03 AM

I blame Fairchild. I don't care if you're Manning . if you have an OC that puts you in a situation to fail, you will fail.

I don't. If anything Fairchild and Jauron got credit for basically dedicating half of the 2006 season to letting him struggle in the pocket and get his mechanics right. He showed improvement and development in the second half of the year.

In 2007 it looked like he forgot everything they taught him. How is that all Fairchild's faullt? The double clutch, not avoiding the pass rush, errant screen passes. That's not on the OC.

Dujek

06-30-2008, 11:10 AM

who was he going to throw to when teams clamped down on Evans? Why do you think the FO brought in more weapons for Trent? Just so that the same thing doesn't happen to Trent when teams figure him out. Unlike JP, Trent will have more options.

It was all Fairchilds doing. Even willis who wasn't known for his hands was a target in the ravens passing game in his first year with the team.

These "more weapons for Trent" you're referring to, you mean one rookie WR yeah? Wow, super. If the passing attack takes off next year will it all be down to the addition of Hardy?

Saying that I don't expect Edwards to light it up next year, but I expect him to be more consistent than Losman would be.

I agree that Fairchild has to take a large chunk of blame, however Losman is not a safe pair of hands to put your team in. He'll win you games, but he'll lose you more, Edwards will simply keep you close enough in games for either Lynch or the D to win them and at the minute that's what the Bills need.

That reply is all over the place, but you get my point.

justasportsfan

06-30-2008, 11:30 AM

I don't. If anything Fairchild and Jauron got credit for basically dedicating half of the 2006 season to letting him struggle in the pocket and get his mechanics right. He showed improvement and development in the second half of the year.

In 2007 it looked like he forgot everything they taught him. How is that all Fairchild's faullt? The double clutch, not avoiding the pass rush, errant screen passes. That's not on the OC.
Ask Turk. Ask the players. They called out Fairchilds playcalling.

justasportsfan

06-30-2008, 11:34 AM

These "more weapons for Trent" you're referring to, you mean one rookie WR yeah? Wow, super. If the passing attack takes off next year will it all be down to the addition of Hardy?

Saying that I don't expect Edwards to light it up next year, but I expect him to be more consistent than Losman would be.

I agree that Fairchild has to take a large chunk of blame, however Losman is not a safe pair of hands to put your team in. He'll win you games, but he'll lose you more, Edwards will simply keep you close enough in games for either Lynch or the D to win them and at the minute that's what the Bills need.

That reply is all over the place, but you get my point.
One rookie wr or not, they grabbed one who they thought could be a redzone target. Pretty obvious that the FO agrees. They needed more weapons no matter who the qb was.

Great , Edwards is caretaker? No thanks. He better be a qb that can win you games or bench him. I hope he's not the 2nd coming of Trent Dilfer.

trapezeus

06-30-2008, 01:00 PM

i am not looking to start up the JP vs TE threads again, but i do have to say this. There seems to be alot of excuses made for JP, yet in a year where TE played with the same deficienies, he out performed JP. You can spin it as TE love or JP hating, but that is why the majority of bills fans are ok with TE starting. He deserved it. He obviously has to keep climbing for everyone to buy into it and that's fine.

But JPcould have come back last yearand earned his job back with a big win in Jax. Yet he makes the same mistakes that we saw in his first and second year as starter. With the window of opportunity so short for each team, he's done in buffalo. We don't have the time to coddle him if there is someone who is pushing ahead with less.

I think there are a lot of QB's who come into the NFL system who don't need so many factors to be in their favor (such as great OC, great HC, great WR talent, and great TE talent) to just show that they are capable and deserve to be on the field. And especially in buffalo where we go cash to cap, we will not have great coaches and great offenses and defenses. We'll have some deficiences and we'll need others to over come those deficiences. QB is one of those positions where a true great has to be able to lift his team on his back and win some games.

If jp got all the things like coaching and weapons on the field, alot of us would still be left wondering, "can he do it?". It's due to his timidness in the pocket, his inability to dissect a defense at the line. Perhaps he could have gotten that with coaching, but other qb's with less skills are doing it at a faster rate. and that's a sign that he's not really ever going to put it all together. That's my opinion. it's obviously not fact....yet

if he does show that he's an allstar this year with the bills or with another team in 09, i'll happily eat it and say I'm wrong.

mybills

06-30-2008, 01:09 PM

Out performed? lol, I thought he was just as good/bad. Like justa said, they need to learn each others strength.

justasportsfan

06-30-2008, 01:13 PM

Out performed? lol, I thought he was just as good/bad. Like justa said, they need to learn each others strength.
he did out perform JP when it comes to ball control. When it came to Dicks preferred style of O, Trent did do a better job . Thats his forte. Doesn't mean he's the better qb.

mybills

06-30-2008, 01:15 PM

justasportsfan

06-30-2008, 01:18 PM

and JP out performed him in the long game. You can't just say it as a whole, when you mean one part. If TE played his strength PLUS jp's strength, then yeah, I'd agree that he out performed jp. That's just not the case.

I don't disagree but people will point out one qb's strengths depending on which qb they prefer.

Philagape

06-30-2008, 01:19 PM

I think there are a lot of QB's who come into the NFL system who don't need so many factors to be in their favor (such as great OC, great HC, great WR talent, and great TE talent) to just show that they are capable and deserve to be on the field.

This is the thing.
It is no credit to any player if everyone else carries him. A good player is someone who makes others look good .... not someone who needs others to look good.
Even if everything else is crap, a good QB can still do what he does well. Quality of passes. Intelligence of decisions. Demeanor under pressure. The offense as a whole may still fail, but most observers can tell if the QB is still doing what he's supposed to be doing .... things that the QB alone does, of which there are plenty. That's how most observers can tell if the QB is part of the problem.