PFW-JP among biggest busts last 5 years

[Albany,n.y.]

The latest edition of Pro Football Weekly is out & among the stories is "Major Misses A team--by- team breakdown of the NFL's biggest busts of the past five seasons" Here's what they said:
"J.P. Losman QB/Buffalo Bills First Round (22nd overall) 2004
Blessed with all the physical tools desired in a quarterback, Losman has failed to put it all together during his four years in Buffalo. A combination of inaccuracy, ambivalence in the pocket and overall mismanagement of the offense contributed to his inability to get the Bills back to the playoffs even once during his undistinguished tenure as a starter. When he went down with a sprained left knee in Week Three last season and rookie Trent Edwards showed considerable promise, it signaled the unofficial end to Losman's career in Buffalo."

[Confused]

and the "profoundly obvious " award goes to........

[SquishDaFish]

Way to go out on a limb lol

[TacklingDummy]

Something realist have been saying for a long time.

[Ebenezer]

between Losman and Williams I think TD's drafts can be summed up quite well.

[Mitchy moo]

between Losman and Williams I think TD's drafts can be summed up quite well.

5 years of wounds + 3 years and counting of bleeding.

[Mitchy moo]

Something realist have been saying for a long time.

:respect:

You & I got crucified for calling him out all the time.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

:rolleyes: PFW calls it like everyone else see's it..

[Ingtar33]

Something realist have been saying for a long time.


something i was terrified of when we drafted him.

i was ticked off.

heh... find my posts on that draft... they're in this forum somewhere (weird, i looked and nothing is in here later then 2005)... i hated that pick.

[Romes]

something i was terrified of when we drafted him.

i was ticked off.

heh... find my posts on that draft... they're in this forum somewhere (weird, i looked and nothing is in here later then 2005)... i hated that pick.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=44302

My search skills are elite :D



What I mean, is that Losman has a freakishly strong and accurate arm, he can make throws I’m not sure are possible in the positions he's in when he makes them (mostly all arm, with little to no help from his lower body).

But beyond the golden arm, he's got a mushy head, crappy attitude and piss poor technique, all of which make him a high risk/ high reward pickup.

High risk because people like him are often the guys who end up in jail, or drugging themselves out of the league. Or they simply prove to be too erratic to be dedicated to their career to the degree necessary to make it at this level. However, his physical gifts are such, that if he does, in the end "get it" and grows up, he has enough physical gifts to get him into the hall of fame.

Hence, he is a highly risky pick.

Since he asked me to make him feel better about the pick, all I was saying was that I couldn’t, beyond tell him that Losman had the best arm in the draft.

[Ingtar33]

wow... i was diplomatic.

I nearly threw my drink when the team picked him.

[Romes]

wow... i was diplomatic.

I nearly threw my drink when the team picked him.

I actually think that was posted a day after the pick...you had some time to cool down. :chuckle:

But anyway, its pretty clear from that thread you didn't like the pick at all.


ah.. you're looking for the wrong fellow to make you feal better about this pick.

All i can say possitive about him is he has the best arm in the draft.

I've got nothing else to say that you'll want to hear.

[jamze132]

I can't remember that far back but I do think I was a happy camper when we selected JP. A LOT of people on here were happy about it and they justified it by saying that a lot of scouts said he had one of the better combines of all the QBs.

What a bunch of dumbasses! :respect:

[justasportsfan]

some people that follow the bills closely are clueless about the circumstances. I don't expect any better from national media.

Eli, Ben, Rivers would've been on the bust list if we drafted any of them.

[OpIv37]

While Losman's play certainly warrants the "bust" label, I think it's tough to call him a bust for one reason only: Tom ****ing Donahoe was the only guy in the entire country who thought Losman was worthy of that high of a pick. Donahoe tried to prove that he was smarter than everyone else but ended up proving that he was dumber than everyone else.

[justasportsfan]

While Losman's play certainly warrants the "bust" label, I think it's tough to call him a bust for one reason only: Tom ****ing Donahoe was the only guy in the entire country who thought Losman was worthy of that high of a pick. Donahoe tried to prove that he was smarter than everyone else but ended up proving that he was dumber than everyone else.
Donahoe was the only one who thought that rookie or vets qbs don't need an OL.

[TacklingDummy]

between Losman and Williams I think TD's drafts can be summed up quite well.

If Williams and JP lived up to their potential TD's drafts would have been looked at differently.

Many Bills fans wanted the Bills to draft Williams/Losman. Can they be kicked to the curb also?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I have always called Donahoe over rated. Always! And he showed his true color when he left a well run operation of the Steelers.

Given that, I still won't agree that Losman is a bust, far from the biggest bust for the Bills. Mind you, this is from a strong Edwards supporter.

I don't care much which round you draft a guy, so long as you get him if you want him. Losman has a place in NFL. He's just not the kind of quick cerebral type that can be consistent as a starter in NFL. He can pitch in and have a good game here and there, beating you with unexpected foot work and some long balls. Heck he may even win the Superbowl game if he's forced into duty and sleeps in Holiday Inn the night before.

The problem is what the Bills give up for him - a 1st, 2nd, and a 5th. And the time and effort they spent to develop him with the right supporting cast. I clearly remembered an article detailing what Mularkey told his linemen about block wide (thus having gaps), because "JP will run outside to beat them with his feet if someone rushing in through the gap." The impact is profound. You have linemen onto something that is not technically sound and you make life hard for normal QBs. And then when Losman fails to live up to his promise, you have a total mess on offense.

Losman may yet to mature to his potential, though I'm not betting anything on it. In any event, it was not prudent, to say the least, to draft him for a team like Buffalo who needs to have a playoff season at the time with the defense they had then. It was disaster to thrust him into starter position when he's clearly not ready by miles.

That, my fried, is the lesson.

[justasportsfan]

Losman may yet to mature to his potential, though I'm not betting anything on it..
this is where I stand. Until he's undoubtedly been in a situation to succeed and has had at least a decent OC calling the shots and still fails, only then will I know that he doesn't have what it takes.

He hasn't had anything to work with. No one here will argue that he has the physical tools. On the intellectual side, who was making the decisions, him or the OC? :idunno:

He should've pulled a Flutie and told the OC to drop dead and do his own thing.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

this is where I stand. Until he's undoubtedly been in a situation to succeed and has had at least a decent OC calling the shots and still fails, only then will I know that he doesn't have what it takes.

He hasn't had anything to work with. No one here will argue that he has the physical tools. On the intellectual side, who was making the decisions, him or the OC? :idunno:

He should've pulled a Flutie and told the OC to drop dead and do his own thing.

This is what I don't agree on. I believe the old saying that true gold will always shine. If Losman has the goods, he'll find a way to shine. 4 years in NFL is a long time. Don't give me examples. Rich Gannon is one in a million and no team will pin everything on that hope.

Edwards, on the other hand, might be a typical example of guys who had nothing to work with in college but may show the true color at NFL level.

[justasportsfan]

This is what I don't agree on. I believe the old saying that true gold will always shine. If Losman has the goods, he'll find a way to shine. 4 years in NFL is a long time. Don't give me examples. Rich Gannon is one in a million and no team will pin everything on that hope.

Edwards, on the other hand, might be a typical example of guys who had nothing to work with in college but may show the true color at NFL level.
Farve and Steve Young couldn't shine until they were in a better situation.

Jp was a better qb than Eli until last year but unlike Eli, JP didn't have consistency in a system or HC.

Anyone who thinks an unexperienced qb can shine without an OL is exepcting too much.I think Marv agrees with me wich is why he decided to build an OL unlike TD. He also stated that JP was very unfarily criticized last year. IMO , he was most likely blaming playcalling.

[raphael120]

Well hey, we all may get our chance to see JP with a new OC, same oline, and Hardy if Edwards gets injured, which I think there is a good chance you'll see JP do something.

Also...JP will probably be playing a good chunk of the preseason games...be interesting to see how well he does with the scrubs.

[The Answer]

If Williams and JP lived up to their potential TD's drafts would have been looked at differently.

Many Bills fans wanted the Bills to draft Williams/Losman. Can they be kicked to the curb also?

As I've said many times before - as far as Mike Williams, 31 other teams would have picked him at #4 overall. Keep in mind I'm not trying to defend the clown that drafted him, but some had the lazy, unmotivated slob ranked as the best overall player in the 2002 draft.

As far as Losman though - this to me was Donablow's ultimate blunder. There was nobody that had Losman graded as a 1st round talent, and not only did we reach, but we let Dallas of all teams rape us in the process. If Losman would have panned out it wouldn't really have mattered - but he was a huge bust and that is what set this franchise back another 3 years.

~The Answer

[The Answer]

Farve and Steve Young couldn't shine until they were in a better situation.

Jp was a better qb than Eli until last year but unlike Eli, JP didn't have consistency in a system or HC.

Anyone who thinks an unexperienced qb can shine without an OL is exepcting too much.I think Marv agrees with me wich is why he decided to build an OL unlike TD. He also stated that JP was very unfarily criticized last year. IMO , he was most likely blaming playcalling.

Favre and Young were back-ups with loads of upside and that is why they were traded to teams where they would get the opportunity to start - therefore I don't see how we can compare Losman given the circumstances since he was a starter here, and if he's traded to another team he will likely be nothing more than a career backup or only called upon to start given injury or musical chairs on a really bad team.

~The Answer

[justasportsfan]

Favre and Young were back-ups with loads of upside and that is why they were traded to teams where they would get the opportunity to start - therefore I don't see how we can compare Losman given the circumstances since he was a starter here, and if he's traded to another team he will likely be nothing more than a career backup or only called upon to start given injury or musical chairs on a really bad team.

~The Answer
Not gonna debate your opinion further with you.

[Ingtar33]

As I've said many times before - as far as Mike Williams, 31 other teams would have picked him at #4 overall. Keep in mind I'm not trying to defend the clown that drafted him, but some had the lazy, unmotivated slob ranked as the best overall player in the 2002 draft...

~The Answer


Yep. i know i would have drafted him at no.4

of course if you really dial back your memories...

you'll remember i wanted roy williams or mike williams that year... i knew carr and harrington weren't 1st round prospects, at least they certainly weren't top 5 or even top 10 pick material... and that teams taking them that high would regret it (though unfortunately i think i might have had carr a borderline late 1st round pick... my memory is a bit foggy on that point)... did ed reed come out that year? for some reason i remember wishing the bills taking a flier on him when he slipped back into the mid 20s of his draft.

[The Answer]

Yep. i know i would have drafted him at no.4

of course if you really dial back your memories...

you'll note i wanted roy williams or mike williams that year... i knew carr and harrington weren't 1st round prospects, and that teams taking them that high would regret it.

Exactly - and that is why the draft is a true 'lottery', regardless of all the experts and scouts consensus each year regarding who is going to be a 'safe pick' and instant superstar - there is no such thing anymore, and it's impossible to measure all the intangibles when drafting a player.

~The Answer

[Ingtar33]

yep.

absolutely correct.

that's why when you take a 1st rounder you don't "take a chance" on a "possible" superstar/bust type. but you draft a guy you think has the best chance to be a starter, contribute on day one, fills a need, and [i]maybe]/i] some day might become a probowler.

in short, never gamble with a 1st round pick.

that type of gamble can bite you big (and the "surefire" picks already have an appalling rate of failure... why compound it by taking a "risk"?)

[Albany,n.y.]

Lots of revisionist history in this thread.
1) Brett Favre was a rookie behind an established veteran who got traded before his 2nd season, so how can anyone compare his situation to JP's when he came in his 2nd season with virtually no rookie experience & lit it up enough for the Packers to go from 4-12 in 1991 (without Favre) to 9-7 in 1992 (with Favre). There is no comparison whatsoever between Favre & JP. except that JP fell flat on his face when asked to start in his sophomore year, while Favre became entrenched for the next decade & 1/2.
2) Green Bay & St. Louis both wanted to draft JP in the 1st round in 2004. In order to draft JP, the Bills had to trade up to before picks 25 (GB) & 26 (Stl) to have any chance at him. Anyone who says nobody else would have picked JP in the 1st round is seriously revising history.
3) JP was never EVER EVER better than Eli Manning. The only ones who say that are people with their heads burried in stats who never saw Eli play on a regular basis nor considered the W-L records of both QBs.

[PECKERWOOD]

:respect:

You & I got crucified for calling him out all the time.

I would have to say that TD and Sabz were the first two to really be anti-Losman around here. You were right on that Losman bandwagon with me at the start of last year.

[Mitchy moo]

I would have to say that TD and Sabz were the first two to really be anti-Losman around here. You were right on that Losman bandwagon with me at the start of last year.

All I remember is getting grief for stating the obvious, which is becoming the norm during this offseason.