Hossa signs with Detroit

[RockStar36]

Just read it on TSN.

The Red Wings just got that much better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ouch!

[Michael82]

:gag:

[Michael82]

In the end, Marian Hossa didn't go to the highest bidder, but joined the NHL team with which he has the best chance to win a Stanley Cup — the defending champion Detroit Red Wings.

Hossa signed a one-year contract, worth $7.4 million, sources familiar with the negotiations told globesports.com. In doing so, Hossa left a small fortune on the table, including an offer from the Edmonton Oilers that reportedly would have paid him in excess of $8 million per season.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080702.wspthossa2/BNStory/GlobeSportsHockey

Wow! A 1-year deal and not a ton of money like he already turned down. :shocked:

He figures that the Red Wings are his best chance to win the Cup. Interesting....

[RockStar36]

Must be because Pittsburgh is not fully committed to winning.

[ddaryl]

yep Detroit gets the added advantage of being able to sign great players for nickels just because they want to sniff the cup...

oh well... I'm sure we'll make a move someday

[Philagape]

Wow, they'll have 30.3 million tied up in five players this season (and that's not even counting Zetterberg). Must be idiots running the show in Detroit.

[ddaryl]

Wow, they'll have 30.3 million tied up in five players this season (and that's not even counting Zetterberg). Must be idiots running the show in Detroit.

yep they is crazy... so crazy they probably have to build a new trophy case.

[The King]

:wtf:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wow, they'll have 30.3 million tied up in five players this season (and that's not even counting Zetterberg). Must be idiots running the show in Detroit.
Detroit isn't a small market though. Apples to Oranges man....

[OpIv37]

Detroit isn't a small market though. Apples to Oranges man....

can we PLEASE cut this small market crap when it comes to the Sabres? The Sabres have one of the highest attendances, are consistently in the top for merch sales, and hockey TV ratings in Buffalo blow the rest of the country out of the water. Their average ticket price is low, but the rest of that more than makes up for it.

When it comes to hockey, Buffalo does NOT function like a small market team. They have as much money as any other team.

[RockStar36]

The ticket price is low??

[Philagape]

Detroit isn't a small market though. Apples to Oranges man....

Same cap. Same league.

[THATHURMANATOR]

can we PLEASE cut this small market crap when it comes to the Sabres? The Sabres have one of the highest attendances, are consistently in the top for merch sales, and hockey TV ratings in Buffalo blow the rest of the country out of the water. Their average ticket price is low, but the rest of that more than makes up for it.
When it comes to hockey, Buffalo does NOT function like a small market team. They have as much money as any other team.
LOL Op you spelled it out perfectly with this line OP.


Their average ticket price is low, but the rest of that more than makes up for it.


NHL teams make a majority of their money on ticket sales as they virtually don't have a TV contract. The team was up on merchandise the last couple years because of the new unis. That is certainly slowing down especially after a down year. The Sabres DO NOT have as much money as the large market teams. That is a fact. It is a known fact that in seasons the team doesn't make the playoffs the team loses money for that year.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Same cap. Same league.
Thats like saying that Bill Gates and I go into a car dealership. He comes out with a 200k Bently and I get a 20k Hyndai.

Same prices, Same Dealership... :shakeno:

[Philagape]

Thats like saying that Bill Gates and I go into a car dealership. He comes out with a 200k Bently and I get a 20k Hyndai.

Same prices, Same Dealership... :shakeno:

No, it's nothing like that.

If Bill Gates was allowed to spend just 25k, then it would be a halfway intelligent comparison.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No, it's nothing like that.

If Bill Gates was allowed to spend just 25k, then it would be a halfway intelligent comparison.
It makes complete sense especially now that the Cap has from 40 to 56 million. It isn't curbing the large markets from throwing around money like it did just 3 years ago.

[Philagape]

If Buffalo teams can't compete, then get the hell out of the league. I don't want perennial mediocrity with a slight chance for a miracle every 15 years. I'd rather go without a team and root for our beloved minor-leaguers.

Golisano can throw around as much as he wants to. He can compete.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If Buffalo teams can't compete, then get the hell out of the league. I don't want perennial mediocrity with a slight chance for a miracle every 15 years. I'd rather go without a team and root for our beloved minor-leaguers.

Golisano can throw around as much as he wants to. He can compete.
Well get rid of them then. How do you not understand that this is the situation.

Beloved minor leaguers? :idunno:

Easy for you to say since it isn't your money. Sure he is worth 1.5 billion but how much of that is tied to his companies? How much free money does he have to spend on a hobby? He runs it like a business because it is a business. The owners that just throw around cash to win are few and far between.

[Philagape]

Well get rid of them then. How do you not understand that this is the situation.

Beloved minor leaguers? :idunno:

Easy for you to say since it isn't your money. Sure he is worth 1.5 billion but how much of that is tied to his companies? How much free money does he have to spend on a hobby? He runs it like a business because it is a business. The owners that just throw around cash to win are few and far between.

As you said somewhere else, it's bad business to miss the playoffs.

[THATHURMANATOR]

As you said somewhere else, it's bad business to miss the playoffs.
Yep it is a fine line small market teams walk.

[Philagape]

If Golisano doesn't want to compete, then he should sell the team. And if no one else thinks Buffalo can compete, then Buffalo doesn't deserve a team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Pack em up baby!

[OpIv37]

LOL Op you spelled it out perfectly with this line OP.



NHL teams make a majority of their money on ticket sales as they virtually don't have a TV contract. The team was up on merchandise the last couple years because of the new unis. That is certainly slowing down especially after a down year. The Sabres DO NOT have as much money as the large market teams. That is a fact. It is a known fact that in seasons the team doesn't make the playoffs the team loses money for that year.

Bull****.

Let's say there's a medium market team with an average ticket price of $40 and a 20,000 seat stadium. Assuming they sell out every game (which isn't a guarantee), their ticket revenue is

20,000 seats x 41 home games x $40 per seat = $32,800,000.

With a cap of $56.7 million, that barely covers half the players' salaries. And that's just revenue- it has no expenses subtracted from it. NHL teams have a lot more expenses than player salaries: coaches, trainers, equipment, practice facilities, stadium leases, FO personnel, office space, travel.... the list goes on and on.

While it is an important source of revenue, it's hardly the only source of revenue and probably isn't the most important one. At best, it's probably 25% of total revenue.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Bull****.

Let's say there's a medium market team with an average ticket price of $40 and a 20,000 seat stadium. Assuming they sell out every game (which isn't a guarantee), their ticket revenue is

20,000 seats x 41 home games x $40 per seat = $32,800,000.

With a cap of $56.7 million, that barely covers half the players' salaries. And that's just revenue- it has no expenses subtracted from it. NHL teams have a lot more expenses than player salaries: coaches, trainers, equipment, practice facilities, stadium leases, FO personnel, office space, travel.... the list goes on and on.

While it is an important source of revenue, it's hardly the only source of revenue and probably isn't the most important one. At best, it's probably 25% of total revenue.
Wait are you agreeing with my assesment or not?

If ticket sales (which are certainly higher than your average of 40 per game) is not the major source of revenue for a Hockey team where does the rest of the money come from?

[OpIv37]

Wait are you agreeing with my assesment or not?

If ticket sales (which are certainly higher than your average of 40 per game) is not the major source of revenue for a Hockey team where does the rest of the money come from?

I'm disagreeing with you. Ticket revenue is 25% AT BEST- it doesn't define if a city is a large market or small market. Washington is a large market but their ticket revenue is less than Buffalo's most years because they can't sell any tickets.

The rest of the money comes from advertising, merch sales, TV contracts, licensing, etc.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The rest of the money comes from advertising, merch sales, TV contracts, licensing, etc.
Right and in a small market these things will always be less than large markets. I know our jerseys sold well the last 2 years but they are no longer new.

[Typ0]

you think MSG is getting good $$$ for commercials during games? What about the station airing the games in Detroit? I'd say there is a significant difference there...might even be as much or more than the total Gate to a Sabres game.


Bull****.

Let's say there's a medium market team with an average ticket price of $40 and a 20,000 seat stadium. Assuming they sell out every game (which isn't a guarantee), their ticket revenue is

20,000 seats x 41 home games x $40 per seat = $32,800,000.

With a cap of $56.7 million, that barely covers half the players' salaries. And that's just revenue- it has no expenses subtracted from it. NHL teams have a lot more expenses than player salaries: coaches, trainers, equipment, practice facilities, stadium leases, FO personnel, office space, travel.... the list goes on and on.

While it is an important source of revenue, it's hardly the only source of revenue and probably isn't the most important one. At best, it's probably 25% of total revenue.

[OpIv37]

you think MSG is getting good $$$ for commercials during games? What about the station airing the games in Detroit? I'd say there is a significant difference there...might even be as much or more than the total Gate to a Sabres game.

Based on what? You ever look at how much higher the TV ratings for hockey are at Sabres games than they are in the rest of the country? The size of the market doesn't determine advertising rates on it's own- the number of people actually watching is figured into the equation.

And even if you're right, this isn't baseball. There's a salary cap. If Detroit's revenue was exactly 56.7 million or if their revenue was 10 billion a game, they could still only spend 56.7 million just like Buffalo or any other team.

[OpIv37]

Right and in a small market these things will always be less than large markets. I know our jerseys sold well the last 2 years but they are no longer new.

you're wrong.

Hockey isn't as popular in a lot of large markets as it is in Buffalo. You think LA and DC care about hockey? I can tell you for a fact that DC doesn't because I live here. Hell, the Lids stores here don't even carry Capitals hats.

You're making the faulty assumption that more people equals more hockey fans. That's not true at all.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The size of the market doesn't determine advertising rates on it's own- the number of people actually watching is figured into the equation.


Not on its own but it is a HUGE percentage.

[THATHURMANATOR]

you're wrong.

Hockey isn't as popular in a lot of large markets as it is in Buffalo. You think LA and DC care about hockey? I can tell you for a fact that DC doesn't because I live here. Hell, the Lids stores here don't even carry Capitals hats.

You're making the faulty assumption that more people equals more hockey fans. That's not true at all.
Ok well the #s for merchandise sales will be readily available after the season. I don't know how I can be wrong for something that hasn't even happened yet but I guess I am.... :ill: It is possible merchandise sales will still be up there but to me it makes sense that they will be down.

[OpIv37]

Ok well the #s for merchandise sales will be readily available after the season. I don't know how I can be wrong for something that hasn't even happened yet but I guess I am.... :ill: It is possible merchandise sales will still be up there but to me it makes sense that they will be down.

you said in reference to merch sales and TV and advertising revenue:


Right and in a small market these things will always be less than large markets.

Don't backpedal and say it hasn't happened yet when you already said that' it's ALWAYS the case. ALWAYS means past and present.

Larger markets don't automatically make more off of hockey than smaller markets because the popularity of hockey isn't universal. The Sabres outsell teams like the Caps all the time.

[THATHURMANATOR]

you said in reference to merch sales and TV and advertising revenue:



Don't backpedal and say it hasn't happened yet when you already said that' it's ALWAYS the case. ALWAYS means past and present.

Larger markets don't automatically make more off of hockey than smaller markets because the popularity of hockey isn't universal. The Sabres outsell teams like the Caps all the time.
Not backpeddling. Merchandise sales is one piece of the puzzle. In the last couple years we were near the top on that, but I am confident in saying that even with those high sales we weren't tops in overall revenue which is all that matters.

Can someone find over all revenues for NHL teams over the last couple seasons to put this argument to rest. Hell I may be way off!

[THATHURMANATOR]

BOOM

http://www.sportscity.com/NHL/Forbes-NHL-Team-Valuations/

[THATHURMANATOR]

The Maple Leaf's revenues in 2007 were $67 million more than the Sabres.

[OpIv37]

BOOM

http://www.sportscity.com/NHL/Forbes-NHL-Team-Valuations/

and your point? It doesn't matter- the higher teams can still only spend $56.7 million a year on player salaries. Our revenue is over that so where's the big market/small market dichotomy you're discussing?

[THATHURMANATOR]

and your point? It doesn't matter- the higher teams can still only spend $56.7 million a year on player salaries. Our revenue is over that so where's the big market/small market dichotomy you're discussing?
Um my point is the Sabres Revenues are only 18 mil more than the Cap. So if we went to the cap the team would have 18 mil to juggle between all of their other expenses.

How do you not see this?

[OpIv37]

The Maple Leaf's revenues in 2007 were $67 million more than the Sabres.

and the Maple Leaf's cap was EXACTLY THE SAME as the Sabres.

Oh, and the Leafs finished worse than the Sabres even though the Sabres sucked, so all that extra revenue didn't give them an advantage on the ice.

[OpIv37]

Um my point is the Sabres Revenues are only 18 mil more than the Cap. So if we went to the cap the team would have 18 mil to juggle between all of their other expenses.

How do you not see this?

Cost of doing business- either figure out how to make more money or figure out how to keep other expenses under $18 million or just accept the fact that this team can't attract top-tier talent and will always be mediocre.

BTW- you're using 2007 revenue with 2008's cap- the 2007 cap was just over $50 million so it's actually closer to $24 or $25 million over player's salaries.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I guess the whole point of all this is the Cap is set too High. If the cap was still at 40-44 million I think I would probably be more in your camp but its not.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How will Nashiville survive with a 56 mil cap when they only make 66 mil?

[OpIv37]

I guess the whole point of all this is the Cap is set too High. If the cap was still at 40-44 million I think I would probably be more in your camp but its not.

I'll agree with that- the cap is definitely too high and it's bad for the long term viability of the league.

[THATHURMANATOR]

just accept the fact that this team can't attract top-tier talent and will always be mediocre.
You are finally getting it man.

OR you could look at it with a different view that with smart decisions a small market team can build from within and make runs every so often. I guess both views are similar in a sense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'll agree with that- the cap is definitely too high and it's bad for the long term viability of the league.
:hi5:

[Typ0]

Based on what? You ever look at how much higher the TV ratings for hockey are at Sabres games than they are in the rest of the country? The size of the market doesn't determine advertising rates on it's own- the number of people actually watching is figured into the equation.


that is exactly my point. Just because the ratings are high in the buffalo area doesn't mean the advertising is worth more. The market is smaller and there are still less people watching.

[Ebenezer]

If Buffalo teams can't compete, then get the hell out of the league. I don't want perennial mediocrity with a slight chance for a miracle every 15 years. I'd rather go without a team and root for our beloved minor-leaguers.


OMG...that is such :bs:. If you don't like the way it is then root for another team. People are going to start rooting for a minor league team?? Sure.

[Ebenezer]

If Golisano doesn't want to compete, then he should sell the team. And if no one else thinks Buffalo can compete, then Buffalo doesn't deserve a team.

Businessmen are not in business to lose money.

[Ebenezer]

Cost of doing business- either figure out how to make more money or figure out how to keep other expenses under $18 million or just accept the fact that this team can't attract top-tier talent and will always be mediocre.

figure it out? so to put a better product on the ice the team should do stuff like cut the scouting department, development department, staff to handle crowds at games...maybe take a taxi to games in Dallas instead of a plane...the ancillary costs are what they are...degrade those and you affect the product on the ice, the potential to get players that want to play here, fans in the seats, etc. Because the cap is too high the Sabres have a lower threshold of margin of error than the rest of the team...the only way to combat that is to have TG start throwing money from his pocket into the team...diverting money from one business to another...altering the books to make everything look legit...:oops: that's been tried already.

[Philagape]

Businessmen are not in business to lose money.

The further the team goes in the playoffs, the more money they'll make. The playoffs are when profits are made. Winning is good business.

[OpIv37]

figure it out? so to put a better product on the ice the team should do stuff like cut the scouting department, development department, staff to handle crowds at games...maybe take a taxi to games in Dallas instead of a plane...the ancillary costs are what they are...degrade those and you affect the product on the ice, the potential to get players that want to play here, fans in the seats, etc. Because the cap is too high the Sabres have a lower threshold of margin of error than the rest of the team...the only way to combat that is to have TG start throwing money from his pocket into the team...diverting money from one business to another...altering the books to make everything look legit...:oops: that's been tried already.

wow, is this ever short-sighted.

There are ways to save money without decreasing performance. No one's talking about cutting the scouting department. Damn, Eb- usually you have more sense than to engage in this kind of hyperbole.

For example: do an analysis of where scouting has been most productive and concentrate on those areas at the expense of less-productive areas. Maybe do more video scouting and only physically send scouts to places when the video suggests it's worthwhile. I don't know- maybe they do things now- but there are ways to save money without shooting yourself in the foot.

[Philagape]

OMG...that is such :bs:. If you don't like the way it is then root for another team. People are going to start rooting for a minor league team?? Sure.

I was talking about the minor-league teams Buffalo ends up with after the major league teams bolt.

[Ebenezer]

I was talking about the minor-league teams Buffalo ends up with after the major league teams bolt.
I have gone to the Bisons' games twice this year. Nobody cares. The stadium was more than half empty. You couldn't find more than a very small percentage of folks in this town that can name 4 Bisons.

[Ebenezer]

wow, is this ever short-sighted.

There are ways to save money without decreasing performance. No one's talking about cutting the scouting department. Damn, Eb- usually you have more sense than to engage in this kind of hyperbole.

For example: do an analysis of where scouting has been most productive and concentrate on those areas at the expense of less-productive areas. Maybe do more video scouting and only physically send scouts to places when the video suggests it's worthwhile. I don't know- maybe they do things now- but there are ways to save money without shooting yourself in the foot.
Stuff your hyperbole. Those are real costs.

Please start listing where this team can save money, Mr. Expert. You really think that TG for all his business success hasn't gone through that team (like his other businesses) and figured out where they can save a buck? BTW, my sister-in-law works for Paychex. Things around there are run pretty tight.

[Philagape]

I have gone to the Bisons' games twice this year. Nobody cares. The stadium was more than half empty. You couldn't find more than a very small percentage of folks in this town that can name 4 Bisons.

They'll care more when they're the only game in town. Maybe the AHL will return.

[Ebenezer]

They'll care more when they're the only game in town. Maybe the AHL will return.
You're high if you believe that or just like to argue. The Bisons are the only sport going on right now. They own June 15 - Sept 1 - there is nothing else other than the racetracks...nobody goes. Nobody, but you, will support minor league sports in this town.

[Philagape]

You're high if you believe that or just like to argue. The Bisons are the only sport going on right now. They own June 15 - Sept 1 - there is nothing else other than the racetracks...nobody goes. Nobody, but you, will support minor league sports in this town.

What happens now is irrelevant because sports fans save their money for the Bills and Sabres.

[chernobylwraiths]

What happens now is irrelevant because sports fans save their money for the Bills and Sabres.

And if one leaves town, then they will save their money for the other. I see little chance that the Bison's attendance will improve.

[Philagape]

And if one leaves town, then they will save their money for the other. I see little chance that the Bison's attendance will improve.

It'll be hard for 50,000 Bills fans to all get Sabres tickets.

My whole point anyway was if Buffalo is a small-market town, then it's better suited to small-market leagues. If we can't have an NHL team that will do whatever it takes to win a championship, then better to have an AHL team that can.

[THATHURMANATOR]

They'll care more when they're the only game in town. Maybe the AHL will return.
The Sabres are not going anywhere man. Why even talk about this AHL nonsense?

[THATHURMANATOR]

and no Buffalo would not care about an AHL team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It'll be hard for 50,000 Bills fans to all get Sabres tickets.

My whole point anyway was if Buffalo is a small-market town, then it's better suited to small-market leagues. If we can't have an NHL team that will do whatever it takes to win a championship, then better to have an AHL team that can.

LOL

If given the choice of having an NHL team that only has a chance to win a championship every 15 or 20 years or an AHL team that won the championship every single season I would ONLY take the NHL team. I couldn't give two ****s about an AHL team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What happens now is irrelevant because sports fans save their money for the Bills and Sabres.
Bison games are like 5 bucks to go to. :rolleyes:

[Philagape]

The Sabres are not going anywhere man. Why even talk about this AHL nonsense?

I'm saying, it may be better if they did. Small-market teams are at a competitive disadvantage, and it won't get any better.
Every team in a league should have relatively equal footing, or else they don't belong in the league.

[Philagape]

Bison games are like 5 bucks to go to. :rolleyes:

Screw baseball anyway. Not the point.

[THATHURMANATOR]

.

My whole point anyway was if Buffalo is a small-market town, then it's better suited to small-market leagues. If we can't have an NHL team that will do whatever it takes to win a championship, then better to have an AHL team that can.
This is complete horse ****

[THATHURMANATOR]

Screw baseball anyway. Not the point.
You are all over the place. You can't pick and choose because you may or may not like baseball(which happens to be my favorite sport by the way)

[OpIv37]

Stuff your hyperbole. Those are real costs.

Please start listing where this team can save money, Mr. Expert. You really think that TG for all his business success hasn't gone through that team (like his other businesses) and figured out where they can save a buck? BTW, my sister-in-law works for Paychex. Things around there are run pretty tight.

So, with no real evidence you're just assuming that the business is run as efficiently as possible already.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

[THATHURMANATOR]

So, with no real evidence you're just assuming that the business is run as efficiently as possible already.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:
Just as you assume they are not. How does that make you any better?

[Ebenezer]

What happens now is irrelevant because sports fans save their money for the Bills and Sabres.
Saving their money?? Any clue how cheap a Bisons game is?? You can get a ticket for $7 and sit almost any where you want. Most people blow that in a day on coffee and McD. :shakeno:

[Ebenezer]

I'm saying, it may be better if they did. Small-market teams are at a competitive disadvantage, and it won't get any better.
Every team in a league should have relatively equal footing, or else they don't belong in the league.
Then root for a big-market team and leave us peions to rest in peace.

[Philagape]

Saving their money?? Any clue how cheap a Bisons game is?? You can get a ticket for $7 and sit almost any where you want. Most people blow that in a day on coffee and McD. :shakeno:

Like I said, Bisons are not a good example. Buffalo's not a baseball town.

[Ebenezer]

So, with no real evidence you're just assuming that the business is run as efficiently as possible already.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:
Yeah, right. I pulled that out of my ass. There is champagne flowing in the water fountains and cavier in the vending machines...which are free. :rolleyes: Put up or shut up - where can they save money?

[Ebenezer]

Like I said, Bisons are not a good example. Buffalo's not a baseball town.
Do you even live here?? Buffalo is an excellent baseball town...it is not a minor league town.

[Philagape]

Then root for a big-market team and leave us peions to rest in peace.

Ah yes, I have to just love everything the team does and stick my head in the sand to be a real fan. Got it.

[Ebenezer]

Ah yes, I have to just love everything the team does and stick my head in the sand to be a real fan. Got it.
Nobody said that. I criticize this team when needed. You said that small market teams can't survive and the Sabres should basically be disbanded. How can you say that and be a fan?

[Philagape]

Do you even live here?? Buffalo is an excellent baseball town...it is not a minor league town.

Yes it is. If it can't support major league teams to be as competitive as the big-city teams, then it is.

[Ebenezer]

Yes it is. If it can't support major league teams to be as competitive as the big-city teams, then it is.
Whatever. Go Muckdogs, YAY!!

[Philagape]

Nobody said that. I criticize this team when needed. You said that small market teams can't survive and the Sabres should basically be disbanded. How can you say that and be a fan?

Just as I wonder how fans can accept perpetual mediocrity, all its excuses, and be a fan. My being a fan includes demanding all-out effort and resources for championships. That's the purpose of pro sports.

[Ebenezer]

Just as I wonder how fans can accept perpetual mediocrity, all its excuses, and be a fan. My being a fan includes demanding all-out effort and resources for championships. That's the purpose of pro sports.
You are welcome to find another team if you think this one is so pathetic.

Go Otters! YAY!

[Philagape]

1. If I wasn't a fan of the team, I wouldn't care whether they won or not.
2. One can be a fan of the team but not the ownership/management/situation.

[Ebenezer]

Go Skychiefs!! Bring it on home.

[Philagape]

I'm in Elmira, so here it's the Jackals and Soaring Eagles.

[hammerbillsfan]

and the Maple Leaf's cap was EXACTLY THE SAME as the Sabres.

Oh, and the Leafs finished worse than the Sabres even though the Sabres sucked, so all that extra revenue didn't give them an advantage on the ice.

it went into the teachers pension fund :ill:

[OpIv37]

Yeah, right. I pulled that out of my ass. There is champagne flowing in the water fountains and cavier in the vending machines...which are free. :rolleyes: Put up or shut up - where can they save money?

Dude, I don't have access to their books or know how/where they spend money.

But, apparently the rules don't work both ways. You're allowed to assume there's nowhere to trim the fat, but I'm not allowed to assume they can save money.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

[Philagape]

Speaking of Tom, my paper's running a Gannett Albany story that says Golisano is set to form a state political action committee and commit $1 million to each candidate who supports his reform agenda.

The guy gives money away like lollipops, but the NHL cap is too high for him?

[chernobylwraiths]

Dude, I don't have access to their books or know how/where they spend money.

But, apparently the rules don't work both ways. You're allowed to assume there's nowhere to trim the fat, but I'm not allowed to assume they can save money.

Makes perfect sense :rolleyes:

But you are putting out this theory that since the Sabres are popular around here, they could charge anything for advertising, and such and it would sell. Sorry, it doesn't work like that in a smaller market. Not everyone is ripping their doors down to advertise with them Come on, one of their big clients is the veins and excessive sweating place. That must be bringing in HUGE revenue. I'm sure there are other ways to trim, but I believe the savings would be pretty small.

[OpIv37]

But you are putting out this theory that since the Sabres are popular around here, they could charge anything for advertising, and such and it would sell. Sorry, it doesn't work like that in a smaller market. Not everyone is ripping their doors down to advertise with them Come on, one of their big clients is the veins and excessive sweating place. That must be bringing in HUGE revenue. I'm sure there are other ways to trim, but I believe the savings would be pretty small.

Well, sometimes you have to spend money to make money. Sabres fans are pretty solid, but like every team, they're more popular when they're WINNING.

So, if they go out and spend some money on players to win now, they'll make it up in a year or two with higher advertising revenue, TV revenue, merch sales, and maybe even higher ticket prices.

There is no easy solution, but they have to cut back where they can while also finding new revenue streams (which is easier when they are winning).

[chernobylwraiths]

Well, sometimes you have to spend money to make money. Sabres fans are pretty solid, but like every team, they're more popular when they're WINNING.

So, if they go out and spend some money on players to win now, they'll make it up in a year or two with higher advertising revenue, TV revenue, merch sales, and maybe even higher ticket prices.

There is no easy solution, but they have to cut back where they can while also finding new revenue streams (which is easier when they are winning).

This is the NHL we are talking about. There is no higher advertising revenue (not in Buffalo), they will never carry their own TV package (no American NHL team can) and the NHL currently has barely any TV revenue. Merchandise sales only go to teams of big popular cities and/or teams with superstars on them. We get Tavares, Ovechkin, Crosby, then MAYBE. Lastly, the can't go much higher with ticket prices. As you have so many times said, people just don't make that kind of money around here.

[LABillsFan]

could be worse, we could be Coyote fans.

[LABillsFan]

Speaking of Tom, my paper's running a Gannett Albany story that says Golisano is set to form a state political action committee and commit $1 million to each candidate who supports his reform agenda.

The guy gives money away like lollipops, but the NHL cap is too high for him?

Correct, the Sabres are an asset that allows him to give away his money for his own personal interests. I'm not being sarcastic, our jobs do that for us as well.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Do you even live here?? Buffalo is an excellent baseball town...it is not a minor league town.
Yep. So many Yankees, Redsox, Indians, and Jays fans.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Speaking of Tom, my paper's running a Gannett Albany story that says Golisano is set to form a state political action committee and commit $1 million to each candidate who supports his reform agenda.

The guy gives money away like lollipops, but the NHL cap is too high for him?
Apparently yes. You don't like then tough.

Also can't campaign contributions be written off? Secondly they probably support agendas that help his companies so it is a business move in a sense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This thread is clearly divided between those who are thinking about this objectively and those who feel the team is somehow maliciously wronging the fans intentionally.

[Ebenezer]

This thread is clearly divided between those who are thinking about this objectively and those who feel the team is somehow maliciously wronging the fans intentionally.
:hi5:

[Ebenezer]

Yep. So many Yankees, Redsox, Indians, and Jays fans.
My kid plays little league. At his age level there are 14 teams of 13 kids. There are 6 age levels. That's almost 750 kids? I would be shocked if they go to more than 2 Bisons games a year or if any of them could name more than 2 Bisons...but they know the MLB players spot on.

[THATHURMANATOR]

My kid plays little league. At his age level there are 14 teams of 13 kids. There are 6 age levels. That's almost 750 kids? I would be shocked if they go to more than 2 Bisons games a year or if any of them could name more than 2 Bisons...but they know the MLB players spot on.
I could only name Morgan Ensberg because I heard a story that the Indians signed him and sent him down.

[Ebenezer]

I could only name Morgan Ensberg because I heard a story that the Indians signed him and sent him down.
BTW, my kid has been to two Bisons game this year and can name exactly zero Bisons. At 13 I knew most of the major league rosters.

[chernobylwraiths]

baseball sucks
now more than ever before

[Ebenezer]

baseball sucks
now more than ever before
Regardless...many people in Buffalo are fans...MLB fans.

[THATHURMANATOR]

baseball sucks
now more than ever before
I guess to you but it is as popular as it ever was in the history of the game. They break attendance records yearly

[Mr. Pink]

Wings = early favorite to repeat.