What if:

[User Manuel]

Your team, in the time frame of one off-season:

1) significantly improved its back-up goaltending
2) significantly improved its defense
3) Kept the leagues 3rd highest scoring forwards corp in tact
4) signed all of its top prospects and totally reloaded its farm system

How would you feel?

I would feel pretty damned good.

Interestingly, this is what the Sabres have done this off season, yet, Regier has been torched for it.

On top of that he has done all of this and maintained enough money to resign Paille, Miller and Pominville while staying under the self imposed 50 million they have said they would spend.

Guys and gals. I know Regier can be irritating, but... losing him would be far worse than losing any of the players this team has ever lost.

[OpIv37]

1. We marginally improved the back up goaltending
2. the D should be better but 1 guy can't make the entire defense "significantly better"- he can't be on the ice all the time and all 5 guys on the ice have to play defense
3. The 3rd highest scoring forwards corp couldn't get us into the playoffs and couldn't even win the conference when they had Drury and Briere with them
4. Prospects and farm system are great for 3-5 years from now, but do nothing to help us win now.

[User Manuel]

1. We marginally improved the back up goaltending
2. the D should be better but 1 guy can't make the entire defense "significantly better"- he can't be on the ice all the time and all 5 guys on the ice have to play defense
3. The 3rd highest scoring forwards corp couldn't get us into the playoffs and couldn't even win the conference when they had Drury and Briere with them
4. Prospects and farm system are great for 3-5 years from now, but do nothing to help us win now.

1) Lalime is significantly better than Thibault, i beg to differ with you on that.

2) Rivet is a three fold addition, he pairs up tremendously with Spacek, he is right handed, a lockerrom leader guy and nasty as all get out. He is every ingrediant we have been begging for.

3) Point is,w e gave up nothing to improve the team. Bernier was effectively driftwood (ie a Pyatt clone)

4) Zagrapan, Weber, Enroth, Gerbe will see time this year and Butler and Kennedy next.

This team will be just fine. Though I do see where you are coming from.

[OpIv37]

I think it's just frustrating to watch other teams make obvious improvements while we make incremental ones. Chicago completely reloaded. Detroit won the Cup yet still added some guys to improve, etc.

I know a lot of the FA's out there were either too expensive or not a good fit for this team, so I'm not necessarily saying that spending a fortune is the answer. But teams that were at our level and teams that were a lot better than us alike went out and made serious upgrades while our FO is content to just tweak what we have. I'm hoping it's enough but on paper it doesn't look like it is.

[RockStar36]

The defense is much better considering the addition of Rivet and the loss of Kalinin.

People rip Regier to shreds but the guy knows what he is doing. He makes very good trades the majority of the time.

[OpIv37]

The defense is much better considering the addition of Rivet and the loss of Kalinin.

People rip Regier to shreds but the guy knows what he is doing. He makes very good trades the majority of the time.

you mean like when he traded Campbell for Bernier so we didn't lose Campbell for nothing at the end of the season, but then we didn't make the playoffs and we ended up ditching Bernier at the end of the season anyway?

[Dr. Lecter]

Since San Jose got little out of Campbell, I would say it was a good deal.


Campbell, a 7th and a 2nd for Rivet, a 1st, 3rd and a 7th.

Not bad at all.

[OpIv37]

Since San Jose got little out of Campbell, I would say it was a good deal.


Campbell, a 7th and a 2nd for Rivet, a 1st, 3rd and a 7th.

Not bad at all.

San Jose got little out of Campbell? They had the longest winning streak in the NHL this past season after trading for him and they made the playoffs.

In case you forgot, we didn't make the playoffs and were hot in February but went cold in March shortly after the Campbell trade.

I really don't think we would have made the playoffs if we had kept Campbell, but it's inaccurate to say the Sharks got nothing out of it.

[Dr. Lecter]

For somebody who expects his teams to win it all or else, you are less judgmental on other teams.

They rented him and he left. For nothing at all. They certainly did not get what they wanted out of him.

[hydro]

you mean like when he traded Campbell for Bernier so we didn't lose Campbell for nothing at the end of the season, but then we didn't make the playoffs and we ended up ditching Bernier at the end of the season anyway?

You make it sound bad until you remember we also got a first round pick. Doesn't make it much better but not as bad as getting nothing for Campbell.

[RockStar36]

I would be mad as hell if the Sabres game Campbell the kind of money Chicago did. Considering the Bernier trade was just temporary and it basically came out to be Campbell for Rivet, I like the trade a ton.

[THATHURMANATOR]

1. We marginally improved the back up goaltending
2. the D should be better but 1 guy can't make the entire defense "significantly better"- he can't be on the ice all the time and all 5 guys on the ice have to play defense
3. The 3rd highest scoring forwards corp couldn't get us into the playoffs and couldn't even win the conference when they had Drury and Briere with them
4. Prospects and farm system are great for 3-5 years from now, but do nothing to help us win now.
1. Lalime is MUCH better than Thibault at this point.

2. I am with you here. Currently our 5 and 6 are virtual rookies. I like Sekera and Weber but there will be growing pains for sure.

3. So should they start scoring less? Would that help? I don't see your point here.

4. Agreed although they can be packaged to get players to help win now. Either way having a good farm system is always a good thing? Would you rather they have no prospects?

[RockStar36]

San Jose chokes in the playoffs every season whether it be the first round or the second roung. Considering they did the same with Campbell as they did in previous years, I'd say he was a failure in San Jose.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would be mad as hell if the Sabres game Campbell the kind of money Chicago did. Considering the Bernier trade was just temporary and it basically came out to be Campbell for Rivet, I like the trade a ton.
No it was Campbell for Rivet, Ennis(our 2nd first rounder this year) and Vancouvers 2nd and 3rd round next year.

[Dr. Lecter]

Weber, as of now, will likely start the season in Portland as he is #7 and can be sent down w/o waivers.

[RockStar36]

No it was Campbell for Rivet, Ennis(our 2nd first rounder this year) and Vancouvers 2nd and 3rd round next year.

Ok, I just wasn't specific enough. But we are basically saying the same thing. And IMO Campbell was good offensively but he struggled back on defense. I'd much rather have Rivet, and that is before I consider the price tag of each guy.

[Philagape]

This team will be just fine.

I see that term a lot, both here and in the Bills forum

What does "fine" mean? Because if it's anything besides a legit, top-level Cup contender, then no, it's not "fine."

[SpillerThrills]

ok, we weren't going to make the playoffs with or without Campbell. had we kept him here in Buffalo, he would have left at the end of the season and signed his big payday and we would have gotten nothing out of it. we got draft picks and a rental player for Campbell, then traded the rental player (Bernier) for more draft picks. then traded extra draft picks for Rivet. so please explain to me where we lost here????? we weren't going to pay Campbell his big payday, so getting draft picks and Bernier for him was a good thing... we used both Bernier and some draft picks to free up cap space to be able to bring in a good defenseman and a better backup goalie......

[RockStar36]

You guys were pissed when Darcy didn't do anything at the start of free agency and now you're just as pissy and negative now that he filled a need on defense perfectly for what the team needed. He is in a lose-lose situation.

[OpIv37]

For somebody who expects his teams to win it all or else, you are less judgmental on other teams.

They rented him and he left. For nothing at all. They certainly did not get what they wanted out of him.

they got a whole bunch of wins and got into the playoffs, which is far better than we did. Obviously the Sharks and their fans were hoping for more, but they did get wins and a playoff appearance out of a rent-a-player, which is the purpose of a rent-a-player.

[don137]

For somebody who expects his teams to win it all or else, you are less judgmental on other teams.

They rented him and he left. For nothing at all. They certainly did not get what they wanted out of him.

I have to agree with Lecter here. Op, if Buffalo was like San Jose and made that type of trade such as a first rounder and Stafford for Hossa last year and Hossa left after the Sabres did not even get to Stanley Cup finals you would of ripped them a new one.

[Philagape]

You guys were pissed when Darcy didn't do anything at the start of free agency and now you're just as pissy and negative now that he filled a need on defense perfectly for what the team needed. He is in a lose-lose situation.

We won't know it's what they needed until we see the results. If we don't get back to at least the final four, then we needed more. He's in a lose-lose situation until that happens.

[OpIv37]

You guys were pissed when Darcy didn't do anything at the start of free agency and now you're just as pissy and negative now that he filled a need on defense perfectly for what the team needed. He is in a lose-lose situation.

he filled one of many needs. When he fills the rest, then he can win. And whatever situation he's in, he put himself there by breaking down a final four team with his incompetence instead of taking it to the next level.

[Dr. Lecter]

they got a whole bunch of wins and got into the playoffs, which is far better than we did. Obviously the Sharks and their fans were hoping for more, but they did get wins and a playoff appearance out of a rent-a-player, which is the purpose of a rent-a-player.

They were locked in before they got Campbell.

Your are being inconsistent on your evaluations here.

[Dr. Lecter]

We won't know it's what they needed until we see the results. If we don't get back to at least the final four, then we needed more. He's in a lose-lose situation until that happens.

Maybe he should be in a "Wait and see" situation.

I know the idea is silly to assume that we don't know all, but we could try it.

[OpIv37]

I have to agree with Lecter here. Op, if Buffalo was like San Jose and made that type of trade such as a first rounder and Stafford for Hossa last year and Hossa left after the Sabres did not even get to Stanley Cup finals you would of ripped them a new one.

yes and no.

If that happened. I'd be happy that they made the attempt but pissed that they picked the wrong guy in Hossa. At least Pittsburgh and San Jose tried to get better at the trade deadline- all Reiger did was move Campbell to avoid the fan criticism that would have come from losing an all-star with no compensation for the third time in a year.

[OpIv37]

They were locked in before they got Campbell.

Your are being inconsistent on your evaluations here.

how so? The Sharks made an attempt to get better at the trade deadline- we didn't. They did the opposite of what we did.

[Dr. Pepper]

Weber, as of now, will likely start the season in Portland as he is #7 and can be sent down w/o waivers.

If Paetsch starts this year over Weber, I for one will be PISSED!

[Dr. Lecter]

If Paetsch starts this year over Weber, I for one will be PISSED!

No, it makes sense.

If Weber will only get 10 minutes or so a game or will be a scratch, he is better off in Portland playing 20-25 minutes a night. Nate can't be sent down, so let him be the 6th/7th guy onthe roster.

Tallinder-Lydman
Spacek-Rivet
Sekera- Teppo?Smith?

Paestch.

Weber starts the year in the AHL.

[RockStar36]

he filled one of many needs. When he fills the rest, then he can win. And whatever situation he's in, he put himself there by breaking down a final four team with his incompetence instead of taking it to the next level.

I think it has been discussed ad nauseum that Darcy can only do what he is told by the two guys above him. Darcy's track record speaks very favorably for him in terms of bringing people in and building a winning team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No, it makes sense.

If Weber will only get 10 minutes or so a game or will be a scratch, he is better off in Portland playing 20-25 minutes a night. Nate can't be sent down, so let him be the 6th/7th guy onthe roster.

Tallinder-Lydman
Spacek-Rivet
Sekera- Teppo?Smith?

Paestch.

Weber starts the year in the AHL.
Weber was our best Dman at the end of the year. I feel he is ready for the NHL.

[Dr. Pepper]

No, it makes sense.

If Weber will only get 10 minutes or so a game or will be a scratch, he is better off in Portland playing 20-25 minutes a night. Nate can't be sent down, so let him be the 6th/7th guy onthe roster.

Tallinder-Lydman
Spacek-Rivet
Sekera- Teppo?Smith?

Paestch.

Weber starts the year in the AHL.

If we in fact pick up another defenseman via trade or FA, I agree 100%. I'll take Paetsch as our 7th. If he plays on a regular basis though, regardless of the situation I'll be upset.

As for Teppo: I would take him back for one year at $1 million, and have him play 2 or 3 games in a row. Then Paetsch could come in and play for 1 game giving Teppo a rest.

As for Smith: He would bring toughness but I don't know if his slow skating would allow for a good fit in our system. If he comes cheap I'd take the risk.

[JD]

Man, I cannot wait to see Gerbe in blue and gold. Gerbe, Kennedy and Poms would be a sweet line :up:

[Nighthawk]

Your team, in the time frame of one off-season:

1) significantly improved its back-up goaltending
2) significantly improved its defense
3) Kept the leagues 3rd highest scoring forwards corp in tact
4) signed all of its top prospects and totally reloaded its farm system

How would you feel?

I would feel pretty damned good.

Interestingly, this is what the Sabres have done this off season, yet, Regier has been torched for it.

On top of that he has done all of this and maintained enough money to resign Paille, Miller and Pominville while staying under the self imposed 50 million they have said they would spend.

Guys and gals. I know Regier can be irritating, but... losing him would be far worse than losing any of the players this team has ever lost.


How would you feel if your team finished out of the playoffs, picked up another average to below average backup (can be argued), replaced an All-star defenseman with a tougher guy, but not an all-star and didn't change the makeup of the team one bit. How would you feel? I think I made my point.

[RockStar36]

How would you feel if your team finished out of the playoffs, picked up another average to below average backup (can be argued), replaced an All-star defenseman with a tougher guy, but not an all-star and didn't change the makeup of the team one bit. How would you feel? I think I made my point.

You're really going to argue the "all-star" angle on Campbell?

[BlackMetalNinja]

You're really going to argue the "all-star" angle on Campbell?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he "not worth of being an all star" when he was still on our team???

[RockStar36]

:scratch:


Brian Campbell is the lone Sabres All Star


Good for him, but he hasn't been playing like one


That's one too many. We deserved to be shut out.


The NHL All-Star game is so stupid because every team has to be represented, and for crap teams like us, that usually means a defenseman.


I hope this changes his game for the better, but I doubt it.

[Ebenezer]

they got a whole bunch of wins and got into the playoffs, which is far better than we did. Obviously the Sharks and their fans were hoping for more, but they did get wins and a playoff appearance out of a rent-a-player, which is the purpose of a rent-a-player.
they lost...they didn't win the cup. The price was not worth renting Campbell. PERIOD.

[Ebenezer]

OK...let me sum this and every single off season Sabres threads up in one post.

Phil, Op and Nighthawk are pissed and hate the team and want the FO hung from the highest yardarm. Demanding the final four in hockey?? You guys are higher than a kite. It was great when the Sabres were coming in 6th, 7th and 8th and upsetting teams in the playoffs but if were to happen to us....:endoftheworld:

Everybody else sees some improvement.

Nobody is entirely happy and realizes that we won't win the cup this year. Good. Except for the Wings we are in the same boat as 28 other teams. Carry on.

[Philagape]

What kind of so-called fans bash other fans for fervently wanting championships? Has it become so bad in Buffalo that merely making the playoffs has become the equivalent of winning it all?? Have we become such pathetic losers that we should just be happy with that and pretend the Detroits are in another league? With that kind of attitude, we're in the minors already.
This team set the bar for itself with its final-four runs. That level of contention did not have to end the way it did. It did not naturally run its course. Therefore I'm not lowering the bar.
Maybe it is Detroit and 29 other teams, but we damn well better be near the top of the 29 and take our best shot, with all our resources allowed by the league. Hoping to squeak in and make a Cinderella run isn't good enough. If Cinderella stories happened often enough to justify settling for them, they wouldn't be Cinderella stories. It's great when the Sabres win at ANY seed, and it's more likely to happen at the higher ones. Upsets are the exception, or else they wouldn't be upsets! I don't want to hope for an exception!
But no, we're Buffalo, so we have to accept half-assing it, forgetting about free agency as a tool to seriously improve, and hoping for an upset, and if you don't like it, shut up so you don't offend our Charlie Brown mentality.
Championships are the reason for sports teams existing. They are the end-all, be-all, the first and only priority. We've become so used to never winning one that we've been conditioned to settle for less and actually find reason to celebrate being one of 16, while at the same time *****ing about the *****ing more than about the losing.
Don't try and impose your defense mechanisms on me.

[Dr. Lecter]

And don't get high and mighty on the rest of us, tell us we accept half-assign it (which none of us do, but it is your way of dismissing our opinions), acting like your **** does not stink and getting pissed when we try to look at the moves THIS year as positive.

At least with Op and Nighthawk one can have a reasonable, adult discussion without being told we want mediocrity or don't care about winning. We might disagree, but is done respectfully.

We all want a championship. We really do. Honestly. You are not better than us about that, although you are 100% convinced you are.

Did they front office make some mistakes? No doubt. Of course we can't go back and change that. And if you really think that it was possible to keep the entire team together, you are delusional. And while you rant about the FO letting guys go and saying they know nothing, you also forget it was Darcy and crew (not Quinn) that built that team in the first place.

As for not using FA, that is actually a positive. Look at the salaries thrown around in FA and the young players the team has. If you want the Sabres to go nuts in FA (And in the history of major sports, FA has built very few championship teams), you will soon see 6 Mike Ryan's on the team.

So while you don't want our "defense mechanisms" imposed on you, don't expect unrealistic expectations on us.

[Philagape]

Like I've said before, I'll tolerate you if you tolerate me. Someone calls me out for my attitude, then I'll respond in kind.

[RockStar36]

All I know if that so far in this off-season I've learned that both Pittsburgh and Philly aren't fully committed to winning.

[Philagape]

Pittsburgh's re-signed its best players and signed at least three more outside FAs. May work, may not, but they're trying with every available means. That's all I ask.

[SpillerThrills]

soooo spend everything the cap has to offer on FA's and say screw you to our guys that have been here since they were drafted....... overspend on a goalie and let Miller walk next year, goodbye Pommers.... the only reason we have Vanek (who is greatly overpaid for his production) is because of the outragous offer from Burke. we got lucky with Roy and locked him up early and somewhat cheap compared to the contracts being thrown around this off season. so yeah, lets thrown away all the young core guys we have and sign a couple "older" vets who are gonna cost alot more than they are worth, have 1 or 2 good lines and then fill them with guys like Mac, Kaletta and the guys that should be getting time to develope in Portland.... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[OpIv37]

OK...let me sum this and every single off season Sabres threads up in one post.

Phil, Op and Nighthawk are pissed and hate the team and want the FO hung from the highest yardarm. Demanding the final four in hockey?? You guys are higher than a kite. It was great when the Sabres were coming in 6th, 7th and 8th and upsetting teams in the playoffs but if were to happen to us....:endoftheworld:

Everybody else sees some improvement.

Nobody is entirely happy and realizes that we won't win the cup this year. Good. Except for the Wings we are in the same boat as 28 other teams. Carry on.

It's not demanding the final four. It's demanding improvement from one season to the next.

For two seasons, we were IN the final four- the only way to improve on that is to get to the finals and/or win the Cup. Instead, we went BACKWARDS and now we're not even in the playoffs.

And now people like you are content with some incremental improvements.

Well nuts to that. If we had made incremental improvements at this time last year, maybe we'd be where Detroit is and the other 28 teams would be looking up at us. Instead, we upgraded one of 6 slots in the main D rotation and the backup goalie- the next Stanley Cup champ won't be crowned for another 11 months and you're already admitting that we won't win the Cup even as you're defending the FO. See the problem now?

[RockStar36]

Pittsburgh's re-signed its best players and signed at least three more outside FAs. May work, may not, but they're trying with every available means. That's all I ask.

They let Malone, Roberts, Laraque, Hossa, and Conklin go. And that is just off the top of my head.

That will make a huge difference this season.

[User Manuel]

How would you feel if your team finished out of the playoffs, picked up another average to below average backup (can be argued), replaced an All-star defenseman with a tougher guy, but not an all-star and didn't change the makeup of the team one bit. How would you feel? I think I made my point.

Not really.

[Philagape]

They let Malone, Roberts, Laraque, Hossa, and Conklin go. And that is just off the top of my head.

That will make a huge difference this season.

And they've brought others in, and they've locked up their top priorities. Whether the results are the same or worse, they're at least trying using every available resource. It's better to fail by signing the wrong players than by signing no one at all.
They are nowhere near the equivalent of what the Sabres have done, if that's what you're trying to imply. Not even close. Some teams have no choice but to let certain players go. That was NOT the case with the Sabres.
If the Pens had let Crosby and Malkin go for nothing and replaced them with no one, then they can be brought into this conversation.

[BlackMetalNinja]

And they've brought others in, and they've locked up their top priorities. Whether the results are the same or worse, they're at least trying using every available resource. It's better to fail by signing the wrong players than by signing no one at all.
They are nowhere near the equivalent of what the Sabres have done, if that's what you're trying to imply. Not even close.

Matt Cooke, Miro Satan, and Ruslan Fedotenko are not even close to what they lost either. Yes, at least they locked up Malkin and Fleury, but they will take a step back this year. The problem is "they've used every available resource", which is leading them to not having any money left to keep people they need. They're using a different approach and they're going to have a small window of opportunity because of it.

[Philagape]

Matt Cooke, Miro Satan, and Ruslan Fedotenko are not even close to what they lost either. Yes, at least they locked up Malkin and Fleury, but they will take a step back this year. The problem is "they've used every available resource", which is leading them to not having any money left to keep people they need. They're using a different approach and they're going to have a small window of opportunity because of it.

They've prioritized the people they need and kept them. What should they have done? Let Malkin or Fleury go? Trade Crosby or Malkin? If they take a step back, it's because they had no choice, like I said. The window like they had last year wasn't going to last in any circumstance. That wasn't the case here. And they're trying as hard as they can to restock quickly. Again, not the case here.

[BlackMetalNinja]

They've prioritized the people they need and kept them. What should they have done? Let Malkin or Fleury go? Trade Crosby or Malkin? If they take a step back, it's because they had no choice, like I said. The window like they had last year wasn't going to last in any circumstance. That wasn't the case here. And they're trying as hard as they can to restock quickly. Again, not the case here.

I disagree with the restock quickly part, I think they've downgraded with all the signings they made basically.

I guess the argument is, do you sign back your big name, big money guys, and give them no help at all, or do you let those guys walk and try to build a solid all around team?

[Philagape]

I disagree with the restock quickly part, I think they've downgraded with all the signings they made basically.

I guess the argument is, do you sign back your big name, big money guys, and give them no help at all, or do you let those guys walk and try to build a solid all around team?

We saw the results when the Sabres let their big names go.
And the Pens aren't giving their stars no help at all. Lesser help, yes, but still help. They're doing what they can.
While occasionally a few no-name teams will go far, most of the champions have big names making big bucks. Detroit this year had three guys making 20.3 million, and now it's four making 27.7. Anaheim won a Cup with three salaries over 6 million. It does work, and it's trending in that direction.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You should become a Pens fan! :bf1:

[RockStar36]

I think the loss of Conklin is going to be huge for the Pens. Where would they have been this past season without him? And to think...they just let him walk.

And what about Philly? Umberger was a beast in the playoffs and they shipped him off for a few draft picks. Then they let their captain walk away with no attempt to resign him.

[Philagape]

Again, neither Philly nor Pitt any in any situation analogous to us, so they're irrelevant.
Philly has a couple of mega contracts and several more big ones. They've made some questionable decisions to be sure, but at least they're trying. They still have very capable leaders in Briere and Richards.
And for the xxth time, Pitt prioritized their needs and locked up the top priorities.
Neither of those situations describes the Sabres.

[RockStar36]

So you would have been happy if the Sabres locked up Drury and Briere last off-season but in locking up that money would've had to let Vanek, Miller, Pominville, Roy, and Stafford go in the coming seasons? Gotcha...

[Philagape]

So you would have been happy if the Sabres locked up Drury and Briere last off-season but in locking up that money would've had to let Vanek, Miller, Pominville, Roy, and Stafford go in the coming seasons? Gotcha...

Not LAST offseason ...

2006, when they were reasonable and not budget-busting. Like I've said a thousand times.

[Dr. Lecter]

So we can't move forward over what happened two years ago?


It is in the past and while we don't like it, does that mean we still have to obsess over it?

Tell me, when you get your evaluation at work does your boss bring uo things you ****ed up two years ago and tell you no raise or bonus?

[Philagape]

So we can't move forward over what happened two years ago?


It is in the past and while we don't like it, does that mean we still have to obsess over it?

Tell me, when you get your evaluation at work does your boss bring uo things you ****ed up two years ago and tell you no raise or bonus?

I was answering a question.

And if I had done something of the equivalent magnitude, I would have gotten fired.

[Nighthawk]

First, people need to stop speaking for others on this board and realize that everybody's opinions are going to be different. Anybody who doesn't realize that needs to get a reality check. People can rip me all they want, I don't take it personally, but they better have some logic to back it up or I'll call them out on it everyday of the week. That being said, can't we all get along? :)

[JD]

First, people need to stop speaking for others on this board and realize that everybody's opinions are going to be different. Anybody who doesn't realize that needs to get a reality check. People can rip me all they want, I don't take it personally, but they better have some logic to back it up or I'll call them out on it everyday of the week. That being said, can't we all get along? :)

:rock:

[Nighthawk]

:rock:

Aww, come on!?!?!?