Trent Edwards: Quick release vs. check down machine

[Coach Sal]

We debate back-and-forth on here a lot about Trent Edwards' quick release vs. his penchant to check down. Some see it that he reads coverages quickly and gets rid of the ball to (who he feels will be) the open receiver as quick as he can. Others believe he takes the first available check-down because he simply can't throw the deep ball effectively enough and is unwilling to take the chance. All depends on your biases either way.

Most Bills fans probably didn't see Trent play in college very much, if at all. However, one of my former players was Trent's teammate for three years at Stanford, and I watched them every Saturday if I was available. Granted, I didn't pay close attention to Edwards specifically (because who knew he'd be a Bill?), but I can tell you that he was one of the only good things about that team for a few years. And I really think he developed a quicker release AND a penchant for checking down quicker than he should while he was at Stanford because he was getting the **** beat out of him so much.

Stanford was a bad football team before Edwards got there, while he was there, and after he left. But while he was under center, they had NO receivers, their OLine was putrid, and their defense and special teams didn't help very much. His senior year, Stanford QBs were sacked 50 times for -359 yards!! And Edwards only played 7 of those games due to injury, so it didn't matter what QB was there - they all got hammered!

Trent's sophomore season, his only decent and real threat catching the ball was Alex Smith....a TIGHT END! And when your TE has to catch a lot of passes, that means he 'aint staying in to block for you, which is what they really needed someone to do there for Trent, because he was getting killed or running for his life almost every time he dropped back.

So, my point is, that 3-4 years of him getting pressured so easily, and knocked around so much, has caused him to have a quicker trigger both mentally and physically.

I met Alex Smith at his football camp last month and asked him about Trent and said, "the knock on him is he can't throw the deep ball." Alex's response to me was: "It's hard to throw deep when you're on your back all the time." Granted, he was referring to when he played with him in college and not as a member of the Bills, but that statement relates directly to what I'm talking about.

[DraftBoy]

Trent's best and worst asset is his check down ability.

[justasportsfan]

So, my point is, that 3-4 years of him getting pressured so easily, and knocked around so much, has caused him to have a quicker trigger both mentally and physically.

.
that's what I thought. It makes sense especially when trent himself recently said that he has to learn to trust that Peters and the ol will block for him.

He has to learn to let the scheme take shape before he panics and dumps the ball. Until he learns how to do this, Lee will become useless.

[Captain gameboy]

I think it was the environment.
A rookie qb, especially a third rounder who is replacing the incumbent. does what he is told, and it looked to me that he was told to not make mistakes, read not take risk.

I think his brain and arm are fine.
I think he will have more options this year because of an incremental increase in talent, and a significant increase in confidence from the staff.

I think that will translate to us getting a good read on where his talents lie, as opposed to last year, when I thought he was playing not to screw up, and robotic.

Regardless of what happens this year, the absolute last thing I am concerned about it Edward's ability to throw long.

Get open-he'll hit you.

[Night Train]

QB's not expected to play in their rookie season, checking down and not taking chances.

It's never been done before until Trent Edwards.

[The Answer]

We debate back-and-forth on here a lot about Trent Edwards' quick release vs. his penchant to check down. Some see it that he reads coverages quickly and gets rid of the ball to (who he feels will be) the open receiver as quick as he can. Others believe he takes the first available check-down because he simply can't throw the deep ball effectively enough and is unwilling to take the chance. All depends on your biases either way.

Most Bills fans probably didn't see Trent play in college very much, if at all. However, one of my former players was Trent's teammate for three years at Stanford, and I watched them every Saturday if I was available. Granted, I didn't pay close attention to Edwards specifically (because who knew he'd be a Bill?), but I can tell you that he was one of the only good things about that team for a few years. And I really think he developed a quicker release AND a penchant for checking down quicker than he should while he was at Stanford because he was getting the **** beat out of him so much.

Stanford was a bad football team before Edwards got there, while he was there, and after he left. But while he was under center, they had NO receivers, their OLine was putrid, and their defense and special teams didn't help very much. His senior year, Stanford QBs were sacked 50 times for -359 yards!! And Edwards only played 7 of those games due to injury, so it didn't matter what QB was there - they all got hammered!

Trent's sophomore season, his only decent and real threat catching the ball was Alex Smith....a TIGHT END! And when your TE has to catch a lot of passes, that means he 'aint staying in to block for you, which is what they really needed someone to do there for Trent, because he was getting killed or running for his life almost every time he dropped back.

So, my point is, that 3-4 years of him getting pressured so easily, and knocked around so much, has caused him to have a quicker trigger both mentally and physically.

I met Alex Smith at his football camp last month and asked him about Trent and said, "the knock on him is he can't throw the deep ball." Alex's response to me was: "It's hard to throw deep when you're on your back all the time." Granted, he was referring to when he played with him in college and not as a member of the Bills, but that statement relates directly to what I'm talking about.

I watched a lot of pac10/stanford games and this hits the nail on the head - Stanford's offense was a joke, from the offensive line to the supporting cast. Trent was the only bright spot even though his playing time was limited. No QB is going to be able to display their arm downfield if the blocking does not allow it.

The thing that scares me the most (in a good way) is that last year was the first year since high school that Trent played behind an average offensive line so he probably was a bit shell shocked - and if the line improves in 2008 as we expect, it should pay huge dividends for Edwards as he looks to take more chances downfield and reacclimate himself to a vertical passing game.

~The Answer

[THATHURMANATOR]

So Coach can he or can't he through the deep ball?

[justasportsfan]

Get open-he'll hit you. The great ones however can hit you even when you're not open but trust the wr's will be by the time the ball gets there or that his wr's can come down with the ball. If he can do that on a consistent basis he can be a really good qb.

[trapezeus]

The great ones however can hit you even when you're not open but trust the wr's will be by the time the ball gets there or that his wr's can come down with the ball. If he can do that on a consistent basis he can be a really good qb.

I think what you are talking about is when good QB's have been playing with good WR's for a prolonged period of time. with all this free agency and injuries occuring, you don't get to see the kelly to reed and montana to rice chemistry. so now its like you have 1 year to get on the same page and show your stuff.

[Philagape]

So Coach can he or can't he through the deep ball?

We don't have to wonder. We saw him do it. It's not a matter of can, but how often.

[justasportsfan]

I think what you are talking about is when good QB's have been playing with good WR's for a prolonged period of time. with all this free agency and injuries occuring, you don't get to see the kelly to reed and montana to rice chemistry. so now its like you have 1 year to get on the same page and show your stuff.
and that would make him a great qb if he can. Manning doesn't need years to have chemistry with his wr's. Then again a lot of their schemes have to do with timing that can be learned at camp.

Flutie didn't need prlonged time with Moulds. He just trusted MOulds would come down with the ball. JP didn't need more than 3 years to have that with Evans. Bledsoe had 2 1,000 wr's in his first year here.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sure I remember 1 bomb to Evans who was wide open. In Coach's assesment is his arm strong enough to consistently go deep?

[trapezeus]

and that would make him a great qb if he can. Manning doesn't need years to have chemistry with his wr's. Then again a lot of their schemes have to do with timing that can be learned at camp.

Flutie didn't need prlonged time with Moulds. He just trusted MOulds would come down with the ball. JP didn't need more than 3 years to have that with Evans. Bledsoe had 2 1,000 wr's in his first year here.

i wouldn't use flutie, JP or bledsoe in the same sentence as Great QB's. Flutie never relied on one WR to make plays. JP connected with Evans on the long ball, but hardly in a consistent manner.

Bledsoe, i'm on the fence with. He was good early. then by 2000, his days were behind him in a league that got much faster. sure he had thebig arm, but he could not make all the throws or keep drives alive.

I was more under the impression that you meant a QB and WR together show that they are really on the same page for all routes.

[Philagape]

Sure I remember 1 bomb to Evans who was wide open. In Coach's assesment is his arm strong enough to consistently go deep?

He wasn't wide open.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/evans.jpg

[DraftBoy]

He wasn't wide open.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/Philagape/evans.jpg

Step and a half is pretty open in the NFL.

[gr8slayer]

every QB in the league can throw the deep ball.

[Philagape]

Step and a half is pretty open in the NFL.

Not at that distance. For a 40-plus pass to hit a moving target within a step and a half is pretty damn good.

[DraftBoy]

Not at that distance. For a 40-plus pass to hit a moving target within a step and a half is pretty damn good.

Sorry but with that much room to fit a ball into I expect an NFL QB to hit that every day, I expect most DI-A QB's to hit that pass all day long. Its an easy throw to make with that much separation and no over the top help.

[Philagape]

Sorry but with that much room to fit a ball into I expect an NFL QB to hit that every day, I expect most DI-A QB's to hit that pass all day long. Its an easy throw to make with that much separation and no over the top help.

Name the NFL QBs who are best at it, then find their percentage on passes over 40 yards. ESPN's splits break it down.

[Confused]

We don't have to wonder. We saw him do it. It's not a matter of can, but how often.
the pass to reed at washington was the best pass I have seen I bills qb make since kelly. I have been hooked since. as long as there is no "sophmore slump", I am a happy camper.

[Confused]

Hardy/Edwards . the next big thing imho

[mybills]

Sure I remember 1 bomb to Evans who was wide open. In Coach's assesment is his arm strong enough to consistently go deep?
I'm pretty sure he didn't throw just one. The coaches weren't calling those plays too often, either. They wouldn't even call them for JP for a while. When they did, for TE, he threw several long ones, but it was still mostly running games. They kill me doing that. I want to see them mix it up more.

[Philagape]

Another thing is, throwing deep isn't just about arm strength; it's also about timing. The QB's clock has to be in synch with the receiver's route. The best measure of any pass is its likelihood to be caught only by the intended receiver. I don't care if a QB can throw it from his own end zone to the other one through an F5 tornado; if it's just as likely to be caught by the other team, it's a bad pass.

[Coach Sal]

So Coach can he or can't he through the deep ball?

Like John Elway or Jim Kelly? No. But not many QBs who've ever played can.

But of course he can throw "deep."


Sure I remember 1 bomb to Evans who was wide open. In Coach's assesment is his arm strong enough to consistently go deep?

I don't think he has to "consistently" go deep. Those shots are usually only there 2 or 3 times a game. The key is caling them when they present themselves and then hitting them when they are called.

[Coach Sal]

Here are Trent's longest throws of the season (at least the ones I could find). Watch and judge for yourself if he can throw the deep ball well enough:

Trent hits Lee against Ravens (ball travels 45 yards in air):
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80382eb1

Trent to Lee vs. Skins (underthrown ball travels 31 yards in air, but Evans makes nice grab):
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d804c2481

Trent to Josh Reed vs. Skins (ball travels only 29 yards, but it was in traffic on a rope):
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d804c3c3e

Trent to Lee vs. Dolphins (ball travels 50 yards in air as he hits Lee in perfect stride):
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d804fc62c

By the way, there were deep throws he did NOT make, but they don't make highlights of those on NFL.com, so I did not/could not post them, or I would have.

[gr8slayer]

There's a difference between a guy who can throw deep and a guy who has a strong arm. Every QB in the league can chunk a ball 40+ yards down the field, it's no secret, and if they couldn't they likely wouldn't be playing in the NFL.

But not every QB has a "strong arm."

[Coach Sal]

There's a difference between a guy who can throw deep and a guy who has a strong arm. Every QB in the league can chunk a ball 40+ yards down the field, it's no secret, and if they couldn't they likely wouldn't be playing in the NFL.

But not every QB has a "strong arm."

I agree.

The long "out" is a much harder and often even more important pass to be able to complete than the 40-yard fly.

[gr8slayer]

I agree.

The long "out" is a much harder and often even more important pass to be able to complete than the 40-yard fly.
And there might be three QB's in the entire league who can hit the 40 yard out more than 20% of the time.

Edwards doesn't have a "strong arm" but he has a great touch on the ball. Something that most QB's with a "strong arm" can't seem to master. Personally I'll take touch and accuracy over strength any day.

[gr8slayer]

On a side note, a pass I'd like to see us throw more of this year is the curl/dig. Should be easy to do in the Red Zone with Hardy.

[Coach Sal]

And there might be three QB's in the entire league who can hit the 40 yard out more than 20% of the time.

40-yard "outs?" Those aren't normally called for no matter who's at QB for any team.

The 20-yard out is pretty far and tough.

The only 40-yarders I've ever seen are probably broken plays are if a WR came back from a corner or fly.

[gr8slayer]

40-yard "outs?" Those aren't normally called for no matter who's at QB for any team.

The 20-yard out is pretty far and tough.

The only 40-yarders I've ever seen are probably broken plays are if a WR came back from a corner or fly.
:meh: sorry. I was reading your post as I was responding to it and put "40" in there instead of "long." Been a long day.

It would be bad ass to see a QB who can throw a 40 yard out on target though.

[Mr. Pink]

QB's not expected to play in their rookie season, checking down and not taking chances.

It's never been done before until Trent Edwards.


I guess Ben Roethlisberger and Bernie Kosar don't count.

And there's others too. But ok!

[Ingtar33]

40-yard "outs?" Those aren't normally called for no matter who's at QB for any team.

The 20-yard out is pretty far and tough.

The only 40-yarders I've ever seen are probably broken plays are if a WR came back from a corner or fly.

yep. the deep out is a 20 yard play.

bledsoe was a master of it, of course while he was here i think the bills took that rout of their playbook... you know gilbride still ticks me off. few QBs have the arm to even try to throw the deep out with regularity.

[zone]

I met Alex Smith at his football camp last month and asked him about Trent and said, "the knock on him is he can't throw the deep ball." Alex's response to me was: "It's hard to throw deep when you're on your back all the time." Granted, he was referring to when he played with him in college and not as a member of the Bills, but that statement relates directly to what I'm talking about.

TE's center from college is a airline pilot now, I meet him on a red eye from San Fran while he was catching a ride to his flight (he was a passenger). I asked him the same thing and he said "He couldn't throw the ball deep because we couldn't protect him for more than half a second. The kid has a bomb, trust me."

For whatever that is worth. He also went on to say that Trent was probably the smartest person he knew, great guy, etc.

[mayotm]

the pass to reed at washington was the best pass I have seen I bills qb make since kelly. I have been hooked since. as long as there is no "sophmore slump", I am a happy camper.More than any throw Edwards made during the season, that throw should put to rest any questions about his arm strength.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The 1st one is rhythm. 3 steps or 5 steps, boom the ball is out. Everyone on offense is on the same pace. O-Linemen know the amount of time for blocking. Receiver knows the timing for a break. And the QB has an internal clock to get rid of the ball in time. WCO is based on this philosophy. And Trent, from what I saw last year, is very strong in all 3 critical components: quick decision, right decision, accuracy.

It's easy to see why capable QBs in this kind of offense are hardly sacked. Someone on offense may be out of rhythm for a play or two; as long as the one who pulls the trigger get rid of the ball in time -- be it throw away --there is little chance of a negative play. You can see it in early days of Manning and Brady.

I hate to bring in Bledsoe and JP into the discussion but they are just the opposite of the kind of QB Trent is. Bledsoe loved 7 steps drop and waited for the down field play. Losman's best plays are broken plays where he can use his legs to buy time and arms to beat you deep. It is hard to plan as a coach and it is hard to play as a teamate. Say you are a lineman, you just don't know how long you should block and which way to block half the time.

Of course guys like Brady and Manning are onto the elite stage where they can use the extra time when they see it, no long on strict internal clock (and I reverse the order intentionally because I think Brady is better than Manning in this regard).

To me, if Trent can be more consistent into his rhythm plays this year, that will be enough in terms of his development. By consistent I mean more completions. I don't care if he does not throw a single long ball all year. If he can improve the completion rate while maintaining the same negative play rate, the Bills are in for a good year.

[justasportsfan]

i wouldn't use flutie, JP or bledsoe in the same sentence as Great QB's. Flutie never relied on one WR to make plays.. Flutie and Bledsoe were not in the same sentence as "great ones". They were in a separate paragraph.

I only mentioned both qb's to show you ,you don't need prolonged periods of time to be able to connect with your wr's deep.



JP connected with Evans on the long ball, but hardly in a consistent manner. .
they were the best at it in 06 in the entire NFL. Again, I mentioned them to show you you don't need any prolonged amount of time.


Bledsoe, i'm on the fence with. He was good early. then by 2000, his days were behind him in a league that got much faster. sure he had thebig arm, but he could not make all the throws or keep drives alive. .
you're preaching to the choir. See my comment before this.



I was more under the impression that you meant a QB and WR together show that they are really on the same page for all routes. thats what I'm hoping for. This is also why Trent wants to practice with Lee. Trent needs to trust both his OL and his wr's

[justasportsfan]

Name the NFL QBs who are best at it, then find their percentage on passes over 40 yards. ESPN's splits break it down.
JP and Lee in 06.

[justasportsfan]

the pass to reed at washington was the best pass I have seen I bills qb make since kelly. I have been hooked since. as long as there is no "sophmore slump", I am a happy camper.
TE to Reed was a beauty but I've seen a lot since Kelly.

[TigerJ]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Coach. It is interesting to note that Losman faced a similar situation at Tulane, poor protection and crappy receivers. He developed a different survival mechanism. He developed a penchant for happy feet and a tendency to try and do everything himself. His problem with the Bills was he could not unlearn the bad habits he picked up in college (at least not enough to this point in his career. The million dollar question with Trent can he unlearn the reflex action of checking down when he should hold on to the ball for an extra half second to let a deeper route develop? I don't think his arm strength and deep accuracy is as much of an issue as some others think. I think it's mostly mental.

[DraftBoy]

Name the NFL QBs who are best at it, then find their percentage on passes over 40 yards. ESPN's splits break it down.

That's not going to tell us anything though. Too many other factors involved in just general stats.

[Philagape]

That's not going to tell us anything though. Too many other factors involved in just general stats.

Many factors are involved at any distance, but the longer the pass, the lower the rate. Therefore it's not "easy." And that just confirms common sense. Every QB in the league has overthrows and underthrows on long passes all the time. No way is it "easy."

[DraftBoy]

Many factors are involved at any distance, but the longer the pass, the lower the rate. Therefore it's not "easy." And that just confirms common sense. Every QB in the league has overthrows and underthrows on long passes all the time. No way is it "easy."

Yes but given the circumstances that the pass you cited was under. 40 yards in the air, a good step and half of seperation, moderate wind conditions. That pass is not as difficult as a 20 yard out route, or a corner fade. Maybe thats just imo, but it tells me very little about Edwards arm strength or propensity to accurately throw a bomb. A number of other throws of his, show that much better.

[Philagape]

Yes but given the circumstances that the pass you cited was under. 40 yards in the air, a good step and half of seperation, moderate wind conditions. That pass is not as difficult as a 20 yard out route, or a corner fade. Maybe thats just imo, but it tells me very little about Edwards arm strength or propensity to accurately throw a bomb. A number of other throws of his, show that much better.

I agree, but people seem to be most concerned about the long ones, so that's what I addressed.

[justasportsfan]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Coach. It is interesting to note that Losman faced a similar situation at Tulane, poor protection and crappy receivers. He developed a different survival mechanism. He developed a penchant for happy feet and a tendency to try and do everything himself. .
:up:



His problem with the Bills was he could not unlearn the bad habits he picked up in college (at least not enough to this point in his career. .
His first look was Lee. Problem is, the OL couldn't hold on long enough at times when Lee was doubled and JP was forced to stay in the pocket by Fairchild.



The million dollar question with Trent can he unlearn the reflex action of checking down when he should hold on to the ball for an extra half second to let a deeper route develop? I don't think his arm strength and deep accuracy is as much of an issue as some others think. I think it's mostly mental.
I hope so. If not, we have another Rob Johnson who didn't trust his wr's to make plays unless they were clearly open and dunked the ball to Larry Centers.

[DraftBoy]

I agree, but people seem to be most concerned about the long ones, so that's what I addressed.

Well some people are just...

you know what Im getting at.

[acehole]

Good post...we shall see what is what...soon enough.

I have my 52 inch high def plasma with tivo and NFL Sunday ticket.

Season upon us.

All theories will be revealed

I love the posters above however.....not giving the last Bills starter at qb a break...and then giving every excuse in the book why he lost/sucked in school.

Where are the "his clock is broken" posts about Trent getting sacked in school

Priceless.




We debate back-and-forth on here a lot about Trent Edwards' quick release vs. his penchant to check down. Some see it that he reads coverages quickly and gets rid of the ball to (who he feels will be) the open receiver as quick as he can. Others believe he takes the first available check-down because he simply can't throw the deep ball effectively enough and is unwilling to take the chance. All depends on your biases either way.

Most Bills fans probably didn't see Trent play in college very much, if at all. However, one of my former players was Trent's teammate for three years at Stanford, and I watched them every Saturday if I was available. Granted, I didn't pay close attention to Edwards specifically (because who knew he'd be a Bill?), but I can tell you that he was one of the only good things about that team for a few years. And I really think he developed a quicker release AND a penchant for checking down quicker than he should while he was at Stanford because he was getting the **** beat out of him so much.

Stanford was a bad football team before Edwards got there, while he was there, and after he left. But while he was under center, they had NO receivers, their OLine was putrid, and their defense and special teams didn't help very much. His senior year, Stanford QBs were sacked 50 times for -359 yards!! And Edwards only played 7 of those games due to injury, so it didn't matter what QB was there - they all got hammered!

Trent's sophomore season, his only decent and real threat catching the ball was Alex Smith....a TIGHT END! And when your TE has to catch a lot of passes, that means he 'aint staying in to block for you, which is what they really needed someone to do there for Trent, because he was getting killed or running for his life almost every time he dropped back.

So, my point is, that 3-4 years of him getting pressured so easily, and knocked around so much, has caused him to have a quicker trigger both mentally and physically.

I met Alex Smith at his football camp last month and asked him about Trent and said, "the knock on him is he can't throw the deep ball." Alex's response to me was: "It's hard to throw deep when you're on your back all the time." Granted, he was referring to when he played with him in college and not as a member of the Bills, but that statement relates directly to what I'm talking about.

[acehole]

I agree, but people seem to be most concerned about the long ones, so that's what I addressed.


You have to do both well in this league.

You have a better chance at teaching the short ball then the long.

The jp statisically did both better.

If you cant/dont throw the long one defenses will eat you alive by stacking the line.

One or 2 bombs in a Miami game dont close the case of "If he can or can't."

Alot of his longer attemts early on went for INT's.

We shall see.

[justasportsfan]

Good post...we shall see what is what...soon enough.

I have my 52 inch high def plasma with tivo and NFL Sunday ticket.

Season upon us.

All theories will be revealed

I love the posters above however.....not giving the last Bills starter at qb a break...and then giving every excuse in the book why he lost/sucked in school.

Where are the "his clock is broken" posts about Trent getting sacked in school

Priceless.
To be fair, I did feel thats why Trent dunks the ball right away plus all the comments about trusting his teammates coincides with that theory.

I also agree with you that when that same theory is made for JP, It's unacceptable even though it's common knowledge that Farichild would not allow JP to use his legs when the OL broke down which is what JP did in college. That would be like forcing Flutie to stay in the pocket no matter what.

I would've loved to see what JP could've done with his legs if Fairchild just let go of the leash. It's pretty obvious that isn't what Dick wants.

Dick wants Trent to go through his deep reads and if it isn't there, dunk the ball. We shall this year if Trent will continue to give up on the deep routes too soon to dunk the ball due to lack of confidence in Lee and the OL.

[The Jokeman]

that's what I thought. It makes sense especially when trent himself recently said that he has to learn to trust that Peters and the ol will block for him.

He has to learn to let the scheme take shape before he panics and dumps the ball. Until he learns how to do this, Lee will become useless.
Which tells me more about Lee's game then anything. A true #1 WR can make plays all over the field not just downfield. Once again showing me that Lee's more of a Terry Glenn #1 WR then a true #1 WR. What makes guys like Moss and Owens so deadly is they have the added size to beat the jam and can catch a short pass and take it the distance whereas Lee didn't show he could do that much last year. As to me Lee compares to a Glenn and Chris Chambers where they're best at on long passes then short routes. Hopefully Hardy can give us what we need there but don't expect it as a rookie.

[justasportsfan]

Which tells me more about Lee's game then anything. A true #1 WR can make plays all over the field not just downfield. Once again showing me that Lee's more of a Terry Glenn #1 WR then a true #1 WR.
Lee's made every catch there is. He's had to adjust to Trent because Trent won't throw the ball deep and looks to dunk the ball. Lee has done fine catching balls either in long or short routes. He can lione up anywhere and he'll be fine. Trent has to be the one to pull the trigger.

[The Jokeman]

who says Lee can't make any catches long or short? He's made every catch there is. He's had to adjust to Trent because Trent won't throw the ball deep and looks to dunk the ball.
Maybe it was play calling but I never recall seeing Lee being too effective on screen routes etc.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe it was play calling but I never recall seeing Lee being too effective on screen routes etc.
playcalling. Farichild does not know what a screen pass is. But I've seen Lee make every catch without a problem.

[Captain gameboy]

playcalling. Farichild does not know what a screen pass is. But I've seen Lee make every catch without a problem.

I think that JP Losman has accuracy problems.

That issue is not coordinator or wide receiver getting opened related.

The guy misses a lot of short passes, and you cannot do that at the NFL level.

[acehole]

I think that JP Losman has accuracy problems.

That issue is not coordinator or wide receiver getting opened related.

The guy misses a lot of short passes, and you cannot do that at the NFL level.

Go see who missed more.

[Captain gameboy]

Go see who missed more.

The fact that Edwards is the starter tells me who missed more.

[acehole]

The fact that Edwards is the starter tells me who missed more.

wrong.

[Mitchy moo]

Another QB debate thread, :oops:

[shelby]

Things were going so well, too....:sigh:

[justasportsfan]

I think that JP Losman has accuracy problems.

That issue is not coordinator or wide receiver getting opened related.

The guy misses a lot of short passes, and you cannot do that at the NFL level.
short passes I agree. LOng balls, he's one of the better ones.

It's been stated, JP took off with the ball in college and Trent dumped the ball in college. One is gonna be better than the other in short and the other in the deep ball.

[justasportsfan]

Things were going so well, too....:sigh:
it still is. It's a decent argument without name calling.

[TigerJ]

His first look was Lee. Problem is, the OL couldn't hold on long enough at times when Lee was doubled and JP was forced to stay in the pocket by Fairchild.The relationship between Fairchild and Losman was interesting. In 2006 it seemed like Fairchild's approach was reasonaqbly effective. I think a lot of us got a little impatient at the start of the season, and excessive conservativism may have cost a game or two, but by the end of the season, Losman looked OK. Then in 2007, Fairchild seemed to go hyper-conservative again. Losman obviously liked Evans. I think in 2006 your assessment of the OL is spot on. The line improved quite a bit during the course of the '07 season though it was shakier at the start. I also wonder if Fairchild's unwillingness to trust his QBs with the authority to audible hindered Losman's development.


I hope so. If not, we have another Rob Johnson who didn't trust his wr's to make plays unless they were clearly open and dunked the ball to Larry Centers. I think a worst case Trent Edwards resembles Kelly Holcomb more than he does Rob Johnson. I'n not going to give that concern to much weight at this point in time. Let's wait and see what Edwards can do through the first few games of the season.

[justasportsfan]

The relationship between Fairchild and Losman was interesting. In 2006 it seemed like Fairchild's approach was reasonaqbly effective. I think a lot of us got a little impatient at the start of the season, and excessive conservativism may have cost a game or two, but by the end of the season, Losman looked OK. Then in 2007, Fairchild seemed to go hyper-conservative again. Losman obviously liked Evans. I think in 2006 your assessment of the OL is spot on. The line improved quite a bit during the course of the '07 season though it was shakier at the start.




I think a worst case Trent Edwards resembles Kelly Holcomb more than he does Rob Johnson. I'n not going to give that concern to much weight at this point in time. Let's wait and see what Edwards can do through the first few games of the season.
The problem was that our FO didn't bring more reinforcements after the 06 season. When teams figured out Fairchilds gameplan, there was no plan B.

ON to 08, our FO finally brought in more talent to help Trent so that the same thing that happened to JP won't happen to Trent.

The Pats already had a better passing game than we did and yet they brought in Welker and Moss.

Rob JOhnson had an arm but Holcomb didn't. I'd say he could be a blend if he refuses to trust his teammates to do their job.


I also wonder if Fairchild's unwillingness to trust his QBs with the authority to audible hindered Losman's development..this was the game Fairchild told JP to air it out and took the shackles off and JP threw for 328 yards .



http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28893&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG3


LIke I've stated I also wonder what would happen if JP was allowed to do this

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K2m1QaZ90EA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K2m1QaZ90EA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

a real coach would know how to use their players strengths instead of take it away.

[Captain gameboy]

I think Losman has accuracy problems.
I have posted that many times.

Losman's issues/troubles are completely self generated.

He is where he is for a reason, and the reason is that he is unpredictable, and a respected coaching staff, who has given him every opportunity, understands that.

[justasportsfan]

Losman's issues/troubles are completely self generated.. the players that backed up JP disagrees with you. They called out Fairchild , not JP. Even marv defended JP.




He is where he is for a reason, and the reason is that he is unpredictable, and a respected coaching staff, who has given him every opportunity, understands that.
I think the reason is because Dick wants a ball control type of O thats Trents strength. He wants the same type of O he had with Miller .