How much will run defense improve?

[justasportsfan]

"He can change a game," said Paul Posluszny of Stroud. "When we've got a guy like that who is able to control the line of scrimmage like he is able to especially inside, it's really going to help us out, especially the linebackers. It's going to be two different worlds having a guy like him up front controlling the line of scrimmage." http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6208

Was POz talking about Stroud in the past or what he saw at OTA's? Hopefully it's the latter.

[yordad]

Top 10 wouldn't surprise me.

[justasportsfan]

Top 10 wouldn't surprise me.
If Stroud is 100% , I agree.

[Luisito23]

Stroud and MC probowl bound!!!.....Book it!!!!!!!

[Patti120]

Please let Stroud stay healthy and return to pro bowl form!!! Please!!!

[Turf]

And if he gets injured our backup is?

[DrGraves]

mccargo and spence johnson!

[Oaf]

Top 10 wouldn't surprise me.
Really? That would surprise me. Although I did believe that last year our pass defense was a bigger liability than the run.

[Night Train]

Let's hope for baby steps before taking a giant leap. Steady improvement as new players get to know each other.

I'm encouraged.

[justasportsfan]

Encouraging stat on Stroud
July 9, 2008 Posted By: Chris Brown | Time: 4:41 PM ET | Link


ENCOURAGING STAT ON STROUD: Granted John Henderson has had just as much to do with Jacksonville's run defense ranking in recent years as Marcus Stroud, but what encourages me most about the potential leap Buffalo's run defense can take is the history of Jaguars run defense rankings with Stroud on the roster.

Since 2001 (Stroud's rookie season) the Jags have ranked 10th, 25th, 2nd, 11th, 14th, 4th and 11th against the run. Over those seven years the average ranking is 11th. Knowing the Bills are just getting Stroud, and not Stroud and Henderson I still believe Buffalo's run defense should be in the top half of the league.

The key is Stroud staying healthy. Can he do it?

---






A realistic run defense ranking
July 9, 2008 Posted By: Chris Brown | Time: 4:31 PM ET | Link


A REALISTIC RUN DEFENSE RANKING: After ranking 25th and 28th the past two years against the run, and now adding Stroud, Johnson and Mitchell to the front seven, what is a reasonable run defense ranking to expect from the Bills assuming they don't incur a rash of injuries similar to that of last year?

Looking over the last seven seasons the greatest increase in ranking from one year to the next for Buffalo occurred in 2003 when Buffalo improved from 29th against the run to 8th in the league. That's a jump of 21 spots. It was also the offseason when they added Takeo Spikes (veteran LB) and Sam Adams (veteran DT) among others.

Adding Mitchell and Stroud looks to be a similar approach. I don't know if jumping 21 spots in the run defense rankings from 25th to 4th is realistic, but I definitely think they have a chance to fall between 12 and 15 provided Stroud stays healthy. Think it's possible?

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

Obviously, Strouds health is still a questionmark. I hope the run D's improvement isn't solely dependent on Stroud. Obviously Spencer is the bac up plan and Dick better make sure there's no drop off.

Spencer seems to be this year Tripplett. Triplett did an awsome job coming off the bench with the colts which is why we hired him only to find out, he's not starter material. Spencer did the same with the Vikes .

[Dujek]

I'm not sure how much it will improve, a lot of it depends on how healthy Stroud stays. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain it can't get any worse

[gr8slayer]

Well there's only one way to go from where we are right now. We'll probably be a top 20 defense this year, but top ten isn't happening.

[OpIv37]

It's tough to predict. The additions of Stroud and Johnson plus the return of Poz should help significantly. But we still have Schobel on the outside lining up 8 yards from the ball and Kelsay on the other side and if Stroud gets injured, it could get bad again.

Assuming everything goes well, I could see us breaking 20 on D, and MAYBE breaking into the top half of the league. There's no way this is a top 10 D yet.

[The Answer]

I expect us to be in the 10 - 15 overall range, but if Stroud is close to 100% and plays motivated we could be in the 5 - 10 range even though we still don't have a DE that can play the run consistently.

~The Answer

[dasaybz]

Poz, McCargo, Stroud, Mitchell, and Crow.

Wow, those are some nice stuffers right there.

Throw in Whitner ... and up the middle, this D looks real nice.

[dasaybz]

There's no way this is a top 10 D yet.

Why not?

On paper, this D has all the pieces, including depth.

[The Answer]

Poz, McCargo, Stroud, Mitchell, and Crow.

Wow, those are some nice stuffers right there.

Throw in Whitner ... and up the middle, this D looks real nice.

Don't forget The Digi - he's been stuffing his face with spaghetti and garlic bread and is primed for a H.U.G.E. season in 2008!

~The Answer

[Dujek]

Don't forget The Digi - he's been stuffing his face with spaghetti and garlic bread and is primed for a H.U.G.E. season in 2008!

~The Answer

You mean a season of growing huge while sitting on the bench.

[justasportsfan]

Don't forget The Digi - he's been stuffing his face with spaghetti and garlic bread and is primed for a H.U.G.E. season in 2008!

~The Answer

THe thing about Dig is that I am sure we won't miss a heartbeat when he has to come in to relieve Poz. I think the MLB will have one hell of a rotation.

[PECKERWOOD]

I'm thinking that our run defense is going to be in the 10-18 range and before we start another thread over this, I think our pass defense will be top 10 this year. Honestly, I've pretty much always been dangerously homeristic but with the addition of Stroud I honestly feel like my optimism may become a reality. The only thing that I'm worried about is our offense. I feel really good about our defense and I think that when people think of Buffalo they are going to immediately think of our defense. Stroud, Schobel, Poz, McKelvin and Whitner in my eyes are big time players. (although some people here will refuse to acknowledge that Schobel and Whitner are exceptional players..) If I had to draw a comparison between the Bills this year and any team last year, it would be Jacksonville. I expect our offense to be able to run the ball and I expect our defense to stop the run.

[PECKERWOOD]

I'm thinking that our run defense is going to be in the 10-18 range and before we start another thread over this, I think our pass defense will be top 10 this year. Honestly, I've pretty much always been dangerously homeristic but with the addition of Stroud I honestly feel like my optimism may become a reality. The only thing that I'm worried about is our offense. I feel really good about our defense and I think that when people think of Buffalo they are going to immediately think of our defense. Stroud, Schobel, Poz, McKelvin and Whitner in my eyes are big time players. (although some people here will refuse to acknowledge that Schobel and Whitner are exceptional players..) I think our team will be alot like Jacksonville was last year. I expect our offense to be able to run the ball well and I expect our defense to stop the run well.

[OpIv37]

Why not?

On paper, this D has all the pieces, including depth.

inexperience on the part of Poz, Simpson and possibly McKelvin (three probable starters), Stroud's health issues, K Williams' inconsistency, Schobel and Kelsay not living up to expectations.

[justasportsfan]

inexperience on the part of Poz, Simpson and possibly McKelvin (three probable starters), Stroud's health issues, K Williams' inconsistency, Schobel and Kelsay not living up to expectations.
all valid questionmarks. But I think we become top 15 D.

[OpIv37]

all valid questionmarks. But I think we become top 15 D.

I think we can be top 20, maybe 15 if all those question marks get answered the right way.

[Mr. Pink]

Realistically 20th would be a good improvement vs the run...

I think we'll fall between 17th and 22nd this year and that hinges on Stroud staying healthy.

[gr8slayer]

Realistically 20th would be a good improvement vs the run...

I think we'll fall between 17th and 22nd this year and that hinges on Stroud staying healthy.That's probably about right.

[PECKERWOOD]

1st off sorry for the double post up above.



Realistically 20th would be a good improvement vs the run...

I think we'll fall between 17th and 22nd this year and that hinges on Stroud staying healthy.

20th would be a big improvement but I think that people are underestimating the potential impact of K. Williams. Everybody talks about McCargo and Stroud but I would say that from an overall standpoint K. Williams has been our best DT the past 2 years and has outplayed McCargo. To be frank, I think Buffalo has 3 starting quality DT's and each one has the potential of making the pro-bowl. I maybe more sold on K. Williams than most others here but he has been one of my favorite players to watch on defense.

[feelthepain]

Why not?

On paper, this D has all the pieces, including depth.


Besides what Stroud did 3 or 4 years ago, where do you get the "On paper" opinion from? The Bills only added McKelvin and Stroud to their 30th ranked Defense. One injury prone the other never played a snap in the NFL.

[Captain gameboy]

Besides what Stroud did 3 or 4 years ago, where do you get the "On paper" opinion from? The Bills only added McKelvin and Stroud to their 30th ranked Defense. One injury prone the other never played a snap in the NFL.

You cannot be serious.
Check out the IR list from last year, and the depth chart at this point.

[OpIv37]

Besides what Stroud did 3 or 4 years ago, where do you get the "On paper" opinion from? The Bills only added McKelvin and Stroud to their 30th ranked Defense. One injury prone the other never played a snap in the NFL.

First, you forgot Kawika Mitchell, who's not exactly Merriman but is a huge upgrade over Keith Ellison. Second, we have Simpson and Poz coming off injury. Again, Simpson's not exactly Bob Sanders, but he's better than WR-turned-S George Wilson and Jim "who? Leonard.

Third, you forgot Spencer Johnson. We run a rotation on the DL and basically swapped Tim Anderson/Jason Jefferson and Larry Tripplett for Stroud and Johnson. how is that NOT an upgrade?

I agree that this D is not going to be dominant- they still lack experience and some depth. They won't be in the top 10 and it's unlikely that they'll be in the top 15. But it's very likely that they'll be significantly better than last year's 31's ranked unit (the offense was 30th, the D was 31st).

[feelthepain]

First, you forgot Kawika Mitchell, who's not exactly Merriman but is a huge upgrade over Keith Ellison. Second, we have Simpson and Poz coming off injury. Again, Simpson's not exactly Bob Sanders, but he's better than WR-turned-S George Wilson and Jim "who? Leonard.

Third, you forgot Spencer Johnson. We run a rotation on the DL and basically swapped Tim Anderson/Jason Jefferson and Larry Tripplett for Stroud and Johnson. how is that NOT an upgrade?

I agree that this D is not going to be dominant- they still lack experience and some depth. They won't be in the top 10 and it's unlikely that they'll be in the top 15. But it's very likely that they'll be significantly better than last year's 31's ranked unit (the offense was 30th, the D was 31st).

For some reason Bill fans equate their IR players with probowlers or All pros. The Bills have none of this either from the IR in 07 or the FA's in 08. You can assume the players the Bills lost in 07 due to injruy will make them better, or the FA addition will make them better, but there's no proof or history to support the assumption. I think if you are going to claim the Bills will be better because players coming off injury will make the team better or FA addition imporve talent, you need proof that the players that were lost have actually made an impact on a lmuch better level not just moderately better.

Mitchell may be better then the player he's replacing, but agin he's no probowler. He's not an upper echelon type of player, besides look at the line he stood behind...rather stellar wouldn't you agree? Will Mitchell be lining up behind a line likr that in Buffalo? NOT A CHANCE!!! He has ability, but if he didn't, he wouldn't be in the NFL. The Bills were the 30th ranked defense the last two years, if they were the 10th best defense in the league in 06 then had a ton of injuries and fell to 30th in 07 I could understand Bill fans thinking on paper they have the makings of a top 15 defense. I'm not sure how you can claim it is the return of the injured and suddenly "On paper" the Bills are good enough to field top half defense. There just isn't any history of this for Bill fans to make the claim.


Here's an example, Miami in 06 had a top 5 defense (FACT), in 07 we had the 25th ranked defense (FACT). We had a ton of injuries in 07 also, we added a few players and lost a few players, just like the Bills. Are the Dolphins suddenly a top 5 defense again "On paper", because we get our injured back and added a few pieces?

Seriously, to claim a team looks good "On paper" shouldn't the players "On paper" have actually done something worthy of that opinion?

[OpIv37]

For some reason Bill fans equate their IR players with probowlers or All pros. The Bills have none of this either from the IR in 07 or the FA's in 08. You can assume the players the Bills lost in 07 due to injruy will make them better, or the FA addition will make them better, but there's no proof or history to support the fact. I think if you are going to claim the Bills will be better because players coming off injury will make the team better or FA addition imporve talent, you need proof that the players that were lost have actually made an impact on a much better level then not just moderately better.

Mitchell may be better then the player he's replacing, but agin he's no probowler. He's not an upper echelon type of player. He has ability, but if he didn't, he wouldn't be in the NFL. The Bills were the 30th ranked defense the last two years, they weren't the 10th best defense in the league in 06 then had a ton of injuries and fell to 30th in 07. I'm not sure how you can claim it is the return of the injured and suddenly "On paper" the Bills are good enough to field top half defense.


Here's an example, Miami in 06 had a top 5 defense, in 07 we had the 25th ranked defense. We had a ton of injuries in 07 also, we added a few players and lost a few players, just like the Bills. Are the Dolphins suddenly a top 5 defense again "On paper", because we get our injured back and added a few pieces? Seriously, to claim a team looks good "On paper" shouldn't the players "On paper" have actually done something worthy of that opinion?

Well Mitchell was an important part of a D that won the Super Bowl, so it's inaccurate to say he's never done anything. Johnson successfully backed up the Williams brothers in Minny and that's essentially the same role he'll be playing here. Poz was leading rookies in tackles last season before he got hurt and was making an impact. Simpson, while still very raw, has proven himself to be better than the guys he's replacing. So again, it's inaccurate to say that they've never proven that they're better than who they're replacing?

Top 5 defense, no friggin way. Top 20 defense- it's very possible.

[feelthepain]

Well Mitchell was an important part of a D that won the Super Bowl, so it's inaccurate to say he's never done anything. Johnson successfully backed up the Williams brothers in Minny and that's essentially the same role he'll be playing here. Poz was leading rookies in tackles last season before he got hurt and was making an impact. Simpson, while still very raw, has proven himself to be better than the guys he's replacing. So again, it's inaccurate to say that they've never proven that they're better than who they're replacing?

Top 5 defense, no friggin way. Top 20 defense- it's very possible.

The Dolphins signed Torbor, is he not just as good as Mitchell? I think he is!



Top 5 defense, no friggin way. Top 20 defense- it's very possible

Funny, the Bills finished with a worse defensive ranking then the Dolphins in 07 despite the fact that we only won one game. Both teams had a boat load of injuries, yet you see the Bills having a chance to be top 15 on defense and the Dolphins only top 20. I think there's as much proof you're wearing your Bill colored glasses as there could be. That's fine, it's a Bills site and you can think what you like and have whatever opinion you want, but how can anyone really take you seriously when you make it so obvious your opinion isn't based on facts, but rather hope. In which case your hope is no more valid then anyone elses.

[The Answer]

The Dolphins signed Torbor, is he not just as good as Mitchell? I think he is!



http://www.nfl.com/players/reggietorbor/profile?id=TOR177981

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

~The Answer

[PECKERWOOD]

Besides what Stroud did 3 or 4 years ago, where do you get the "On paper" opinion from? The Bills only added McKelvin and Stroud to their 30th ranked Defense. One injury prone the other never played a snap in the NFL.

After reading this post, I can't say that I have much respect for your opinion. I see your 2 lengthy posts after this and I couldn't bring myself to read them. You're not an informed poster, do some research before you make silly blank statements. C'mon... How the hell can you leave out Mitchell, Johnson, James, Ellis, Posluszny and Simpson?

[OpIv37]

The Dolphins signed Torbor, is he not just as good as Mitchell? I think he is!



Funny, the Bills finished with a worse defensive ranking then the Dolphins in 07 despite the fact that we only won one game. Both teams had a boat load of injuries, yet you see the Bills having a chance to be top 15 on defense and the Dolphins only top 20. I think there's as much proof you're wearing your Bill colored glasses as there could be. That's fine, it's a Bills site and you can think what you like and have whatever opinion you want, but how can anyone really take you seriously when you make it so obvious your opinion isn't based on facts, but rather hope. In which case your hope is no more valid then anyone elses.

Well to be fair, I said the Bills have a chance to be top 20 and an outside chance at being top 15, but that's only if everything goes perfect, which is unlikely. And I never said anything about the Dolphins' D because I just haven't followed them closely enough to really comment.

and btw do you ever read my posts on here? I'm the LAST person who should be accused of homerism.

[feelthepain]

Well to be fair, I said the Bills have a chance to be top 20 and an outside chance at being top 15, but that's only if everything goes perfect, which is unlikely. And I never said anything about the Dolphins' D because I just haven't followed them closely enough to really comment.

and btw do you ever read my posts on here? I'm the LAST person who should be accused of homerism.
Well to be fair you did, make the statement about the Bills being top 15 and the Dolphins top 20...maybe. That's obviously a homer statement...comon!!

[OpIv37]

Well to be fair you did, make the statement about the Bills being top 15 and the Dolphins top 20...maybe. That's obviously a homer statement...comon!!

to be fair, this is exactly what I said:


It's tough to predict. The additions of Stroud and Johnson plus the return of Poz should help significantly. But we still have Schobel on the outside lining up 8 yards from the ball and Kelsay on the other side and if Stroud gets injured, it could get bad again.

Assuming everything goes well, I could see us breaking 20 on D, and MAYBE breaking into the top half of the league. There's no way this is a top 10 D yet.

The part about maybe breaking the top 15 is a bit homeristic, but even that is qualified and the rest of it is a very reasonable assessment.

I honestly don't recall ever saying that the Dolphins would be in the top 20 or, for that matter, saying anything about the Dolphins' D at all. If I did, please quote it or link it.

[mysticsoto]

For some reason Bill fans equate their IR players with probowlers or All pros. The Bills have none of this either from the IR in 07 or the FA's in 08. You can assume the players the Bills lost in 07 due to injruy will make them better, or the FA addition will make them better, but there's no proof or history to support the assumption.

Since this needs to be explained for those of low intelligence or drug-induced comas, in general, players that are starters are usually better than those that play as depth behind them. Therefore, when you lose a starter, you lose the best player at the position. We lost many starters last year on defense and therefore we are optimistic that the return of those starters will enhance the particular defense of the position they are playing. That coupled with our FA acquisitions and the players they are replacing is what has us optimistic in how much the defense may improve.

The only way this can be explained/simplified more is by using sock puppets...

http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/files/Sock%20Puppet.jpg

[justasportsfan]

I honestly don't recall ever saying that the Dolphins would be in the top 20 or, for that matter, saying anything about the Dolphins' D at all. If I did, please quote it or link it.
it's way up his arse.

[Al the Bills Fan]

And if he gets injured our backup is?

DT is the one position that we actually have "decent" depth!

[feelthepain]

After reading this post, I can't say that I have much respect for your opinion. I see your 2 lengthy posts after this and I couldn't bring myself to read them. You're not an informed poster, do some research before you make silly blank statements. C'mon... How the hell can you leave out Mitchell, Johnson, James, Ellis, Posluszny and Simpson?

I seem to remember Bill fans claiming their Oline would be one of the best in the league in 07. With the addition of Walker and Dockery last year at this time Bill fans were beating that drum LOUDLY. There were no long term or season ending injuries to the Bills starting offensive players in Buffalo, but after the Oline additions the Bills managed the lowest scoring offense in the league in 07 a decline from 06. Hardly the monster Oline Bill fans claimed they would now have in 07!

I think you are way over estimating what I think of your opinion of me. I try to have a logical and reasonable football discussion with Bill fans here, but if anyone questions the talent the Bills have suddenly Bill fans can't handle that and get all offended. Grow up, do the Bills ever have to earn anything before their fans start spewing this will be good and that will be good without expecting others to question that thinking?

I'm not saying the Bills won't be better, I'm just pointing out there isn't any proof the players taking the field this year will make them better based on simple facts. I know Bill fans want everyone in the world to love their team and rerspect them, but it aint gonna happen till the team actually makes it happen, regardless how much faith you Bill fans have.

Seriously, the Bills have nothing to base anything on at this point. So it's not beyond reason for others to question lofty Bill fan expectations, deal with it, it's what grown ups do.

[justasportsfan]

Grow up, .
says the old man that still lives in his parents basement. :snicker:

[feelthepain]

to be fair, this is exactly what I said:



The part about maybe breaking the top 15 is a bit homeristic, but even that is qualified and the rest of it is a very reasonable assessment.

I honestly don't recall ever saying that the Dolphins would be in the top 20 or, for that matter, saying anything about the Dolphins' D at all. If I did, please quote it or link it.


Well Mitchell was an important part of a D that won the Super Bowl, so it's inaccurate to say he's never done anything. Johnson successfully backed up the Williams brothers in Minny and that's essentially the same role he'll be playing here. Poz was leading rookies in tackles last season before he got hurt and was making an impact. Simpson, while still very raw, has proven himself to be better than the guys he's replacing. So again, it's inaccurate to say that they've never proven that they're better than who they're replacing?

Top 5 defense, no friggin way. Top 20 defense- it's very possible.

I assumed since I was the one who mentioned the Dolphins being a top 5 defense this was your response to that, if it wasn't my bad.

[OpIv37]

I assumed since I was the one who mentioned the Dolphins being a top 5 defense this was your response to that, if it wasn't my bad.

ah, there's the confusion. No, I was still talking about the Bills- I should have clarified it more.

[feelthepain]

ah, there's the confusion. No, I was still talking about the Bills- I should have clarified it more.

Sorry.

[mysticsoto]

I seem to remember Bill fans claiming their Oline would be one of the best in the league in 07. With the addition of Walker and Dockery last year at this time Bill fans were beating that drum LOUDLY. There were no long term or season ending injuries to the Bills starting offensive players in Buffalo, but after the Oline additions the Bills managed the lowest scoring offense in the league in 07 a decline from 06. Hardly the monster Oline Bill fans claimed they would now have in 07!


This is exactly why you are so clueless and a laughingstock on this site. The Oline only allowed 26 sacks in 2007 - a franchise low!!!

Stop for a second to put some logic together. Could a rookie QB alongside not having a viable #2 WR or competent TEs actually have been a big part of the reasons the offense was so anemic???

Totally clueless!!!

[gr8slayer]

This is exactly why you are so clueless and a laughingstock on this site. The Oline only allowed 26 sacks in 2007 - a franchise low!!!

Stop for a second to put some logic together. Could a rookie QB alongside not having a viable #2 WR or competent TEs actually have been a big part of the reasons the offense was so anemic???

Totally clueless!!!
Some how you sound surprised.