The Whitner vs. Huff debate

[The Spaz]

Don't know how many of you recall but back in the 2006 draft many Bills fans were wondering if the Bills settled for Donte Whitner when the Raiders took Texas S Michael Huff one pick ahead of them (7th overall). Two years later Huff is in a put up or shut up year according to Jerry McDonald of the Contra Costa Times.

Not that it's all Huff's fault. He's more of a free safety, but the Raiders in the only way they know how to sabotage their own picks have played him at strong safety. Huff can't hit like Whitner and belongs in centerfield. He was miscast by Oakland. On Buffalo's board they had Whitner listed as a SS and Huff as a FS.

Either way it's looking more and more like the Bills got the better all-around safety in Whitner. He can cover just as well as Huff and he can hit and tackle. Do you think Whitner is better than Huff?

http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2008/07/08/last-call-for-michael-huff/

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

[coastal]

Whitner hasn't done **** either. Is it Huff's fault Oakland doesn't know what their doing with him?

[gr8slayer]

Neither has lived up to their draft spot so far, but Whitner has been a little bit better than Huff. But let's be honest, the poor bastard plays for the Raiders.

[Confused]

Its like chosing between a poke in the eye or a kick in the junk. I 'd take whitner just because he's a hard hitter.

[Confused]

Whitner hasn't done **** either. Is it Huff's fault Oakland doesn't know what their doing with him?

oakland, where talented players go to die. I'd kill to have Mike Bush in a Bills uni.

[The Spaz]

The whole thing is a lot of people were *****ing that Huff was such a better player and more talented.

[gr8slayer]

The whole thing is a lot of people were *****ing that Huff was such a better player and more talented.
Coming out of college he was.

[OpIv37]

Huff can't hit like Whitner? Admittedly, I haven't watched Huff, but in two full seasons, the only big hit Whitner has had is the one on Chad Johnson. He hasn't lived up to the reputation of a "big hitter" at all. So, unless Huff is just a terrible hitter, I can't imagine him being worse than Whitner.

But, this is the wrong question. The Bills never had a chance at Huff. I could care less how Whitner compares to Huff. I care about whether or not he's living up to the hype of being the #8 pick and being a difference maker for our team.

So far, he hasn't been a difference maker. His big plays are few and far between, he rarely even tips or breaks up a pass (let alone get INT's) and he's never near the play in the passing game. Everyone loves how he comes up and plays the run, but he's been mediocre at best in his main area of responsibility.

Yeah, Huff is worse, but that doesn't help the Bills any so it's irrelevant. It's not Whitner's job to slightly outperform Huff. It's his job to help the Bills win and he hasn't done it yet.

[coastal]

Huff can't hit like Whitner? Admittedly, I haven't watched Huff, but in two full seasons, the only big hit Whitner has had is the one on Chad Johnson. He hasn't lived up to the reputation of a "big hitter" at all. So, unless Huff is just a terrible hitter, I can't imagine him being worse than Whitner.

But, this is the wrong question. The Bills never had a chance at Huff. I could care less how Whitner compares to Huff. I care about whether or not he's living up to the hype of being the #8 pick and being a difference maker for our team.

So far, he hasn't been a difference maker. His big plays are few and far between, he rarely even tips or breaks up a pass (let alone get INT's) and he's never near the play in the passing game. Everyone loves how he comes up and plays the run, but he's been mediocre at best in his main area of responsibility.

Yeah, Huff is worse, but that doesn't help the Bills any so it's irrelevant. It's not Whitner's job to slightly outperform Huff. It's his job to help the Bills win and he hasn't done it yet.kick ass post.

[gil]

Huff can't hit like Whitner? Admittedly, I haven't watched Huff, but in two full seasons, the only big hit Whitner has had is the one on Chad Johnson. He hasn't lived up to the reputation of a "big hitter" at all. So, unless Huff is just a terrible hitter, I can't imagine him being worse than Whitner.

But, this is the wrong question. The Bills never had a chance at Huff. I could care less how Whitner compares to Huff. I care about whether or not he's living up to the hype of being the #8 pick and being a difference maker for our team.

So far, he hasn't been a difference maker. His big plays are few and far between, he rarely even tips or breaks up a pass (let alone get INT's) and he's never near the play in the passing game. Everyone loves how he comes up and plays the run, but he's been mediocre at best in his main area of responsibility.

Yeah, Huff is worse, but that doesn't help the Bills any so it's irrelevant. It's not Whitner's job to slightly outperform Huff. It's his job to help the Bills win and he hasn't done it yet.

absolutely great post - the question I think of is not what Huff could have done, but what could have Ngata done for our run game in these years - whether or not he exactly "fit our scheme"

[The Jokeman]

absolutely great post - the question I think of is not what Huff could have done, but what could have Ngata done for our run game in these years - whether or not he exactly "fit our scheme"
Whitner, Huff and Ngata all have to answer also to whom they're playing with. I think most will agree that the surrounding cast in Baltimore has been better then we've seen in Buffalo and Oakland. While I admit I was someone who felt if took a S at 8 that Huff was the only option yet I can't say that Whitner has played worse then him.

Yet all things considered to me a draft is always about getting the best collection of talent. I feel Whiter was a big time reach at 8 and would have much favored we took a guy like Brodrick Bunkley. I know someone come back and tell me that Ngata's stats are better but again think Bunkley is a better fit in our current defense and really think Ngata's benefitted playing with great players in Baltimore. Not only that buf Bunkley appears he's played better then John McCargo to date. Thusly had we gotten Bunkley we could have stayed put in Round 2 and possibly landed a SS like Roman Harper who's numbers favorable compare to Whitner's thus far. That would also would have left us with an additional Round 3 selection in 2006 that could have been used on O-lineman like a Jason Spitz or a TE like Owen Daniels. Toss in there's a possibility that if had Bunkley we would never had to trade Spikes to Philly and perhaps been able to keep Holcomb and shipped Spikes elsewhere. It's odd how one selection can impact so many more things that follow.

[Ickybaluky]

This is a good argument against taking a S that high, unless he is very special.

If you look at the same draft, Dawan Landry (5th round) and Antoine Bethea (6th round) have arguably had as big or bigger impact as Whitner and Huff. You can find S.

[Turf]

Shoulda been Ngata.

[yordad]

I think Whitner is better. I think he will distance himself this year. I also think that is you are trying to grade the selection you should compare Ngata vs Whitner. But, if you are trying to compare safeties, I think Whitner will be considered top 5 in the next few years, well above Huff.

[Oaf]

The whole thing is a lot of people were *****ing that Huff was such a better player and more talented.
:wave:

If Huff gets cut, we bring him in and play three safeties in our Nickel package. Or just subpackage Ko. :drool:

[coastal]

People are seemingly enamored with Whitner's run stuffing and hitting ability.

Am I the only one who remembers how many bad angles he has taken that have led to 20+ yard scampers by opposing ball carriers?

[mybills]

People are seemingly enamored with Whitner's run stuffing and hitting ability.

Am I the only one who remembers how many bad angles he has taken that have led to 20+ yard scampers by opposing ball carriers?
No, you're not the only one. And some people said he's better than TMac. :cynic:

[DraftBoy]

Stats Comparison;
2007-
Huff-87 Tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT, 1 Sack, 11 PD
Whitner-89 Tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT, 1 PD

2006-
Huff-78 Tackles, 1 PD
Whitner-106 Tackles, 1 INT, 5 PD


Neither has lived up to their billing but Huff is still the better cover guy imo. Huff started to come on more last season after his bye week and the thought by some is that maybe it finally clicked. All 11 of his PD and his INT came after his bye week which was week 5.

Both players however need to step it up big time!

[Jan Reimers]

Do the Whitner detractors realize he has played mostly in the box, against the run, on injury-riddled and mediocre defenses? Because of improvements on the D, he may actually get a chance to showcase his talents this year.

Could we give him a chance before we cut off his head and crap down his neck?

[OpIv37]

Do the Whitner detractors realize he has played mostly in the box, against the run, on injury-riddled and mediocre defenses? Because of improvements on the D, he may actually get a chance to showcase his talents this year.

Could we give him a chance before we cut off his head and crap down his neck?


He was drafted at #8 and plays S, not QB- it should take a lot less than 32 games to show us something. Anyone drafted that high should be an immediate contributor and not a project (with the exception of QB and maybe CB).

As far as the weak D argument, it doesn't make any sense. ANY player would be better with a better supporting cast around him. How good is a player really if they can only perform in a perfect scenario with the exact combination of players around him?

Someone needs to step up and make plays, but instead Whitner is letting the rest of the team bring him down to their level.

[justasportsfan]

Stats Comparison;
2007-
Huff-87 Tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT, 1 Sack, 11 PD
Whitner-89 Tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT, 1 PD

2006-
Huff-78 Tackles, 1 PD
Whitner-106 Tackles, 1 INT, 5 PD


Neither has lived up to their billing but Huff is still the better cover guy imo. Huff started to come on more last season after his bye week and the thought by some is that maybe it finally clicked. All 11 of his PD and his INT came after his bye week which was week 5.

Both players however need to step it up big time!


HArd to compare stats especially since Oakland has had a better DL since they were both drafted.

[DraftBoy]

HArd to compare stats especially since Oakland has had a better DL since they were both drafted.

But Buffalo has had better LBs...We can play semantics all day long but I dont think you can label either guy a bust. Both need to step it up, I think both are in ideal situations to do so. Whitner maybe a little better because he is a natural SS. Huff would be much better for OAK if they'd move him to FS, imo but with the talent around him in the backfield this year, he could excel too. This is a make or break year for both these guys.

[DraftBoy]

:wave:

If Huff gets cut, we bring him in and play three safeties in our Nickel package. Or just subpackage Ko. :drool:

If Huff were to get cut, we should sign him to be our starting FS and Ko can take a seat for all I care. Huff was the best S in football his draft year and can play CF really well, for whatever reason Oakland won't let him do that.

[yordad]

People are seemingly enamored with Whitner's run stuffing and hitting ability.

Am I the only one who remembers how many bad angles he has taken that have led to 20+ yard scampers by opposing ball carriers?No, but your the only one who remembers only those two or three plays.

[OpIv37]

No, but your the only one who remembers only those two or three plays.

it was a LOT more than 2 or 3. And some of them had really bad results, like McGahee's huge TD run.

[yordad]

it was a LOT more than 2 or 3. And some of them had really bad results, like McGahee's huge TD run.Well thats one. Keep counting.

[Ickybaluky]

Buffalo gave up 10 rushing plays of 20 yards or more in all of 2007. That is about middle-of-the-pack in the NFL. It is hard to believe all those plays were Whitner's fault, which leads one to believe Op may be guilty of hyperbole.

I think Whitner is generally considered a promising young player. If he is to be criticized in any one area it is lack of game-changing plays. 2 Ints, 1 Forced Fumble and 0 Sacks in 2 years isn't the kind of production you expect from a big-time S. If he wants to be considered among the best S in the game, he will have to start stepping up and making big plays.

[OpIv37]

Buffalo gave up 10 rushing plays of 20 yards or more in all of 2007. That is about middle-of-the-pack in the NFL. It is hard to believe all those plays were Whitner's fault, which leads one to believe Op may be guilty of hyperbole.

I think Whitner is generally considered a promising young player. If he is to be criticized in any one area it is lack of game-changing plays. 2 Ints, 1 Forced Fumble and 0 Sacks in 2 years isn't the kind of production you expect from a big-time S. If he wants to be considered among the best S in the game, he will have to start stepping up and making big plays.

well maybe not all of them went for 20 yards but he's certainly not Pat Williams in a safety's body like some here are making him out to be.

I can live with the 0 sacks because our D rarely blitzes so he doesn't have that many opportunities. The rest of that stat line is pathetic.