Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

**Mitchy moo** · 07-12-2008, 03:40 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

This is actually a awesome breakdown and looks to be a fair glimpse as to what we have, thanks for the read.

**yordad** · 07-12-2008, 03:48 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Originally posted by Skooby

This is actually a awesome breakdown and looks to be a fair glimpse as to what we have, thanks for the read.

E- yes. Thank you Skoobs! I was bored at work. And, I ain't the fastest typist, so it took some time. I've been "waiting" hours for a reply. And to top it off, it was a complimentary one!

I appreciate it.

**hydro** · 07-12-2008, 04:42 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

This further proves the fact that we look great on paper

. Lets hope we don't get bit with the injury bug again because we definitely will be better team.

**Scumbag College** · 07-12-2008, 04:45 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

It is a pretty thorough breakdown. You can see how Marv and now this regime has really improved this team through the draft and developing the younger players, as well as getting starters via free agency and trade to fill in the gaps.

**SquishDaFish** · 07-12-2008, 09:20 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

**raphael120** · 07-12-2008, 09:29 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

You forgot to mention the key issues and question marks with this team.

Jauron, Schonert, and Fewell.

None of them have proven anything. None of them have proven they know how to manage a game or call the right plays at the right times. None of them have proven they know how to utilize their talent on their roster.

I honestly think that if we have a crap year again, we can blame it primarily on coaching. Wouldn't you? If we supposively have gotten better at every position and we only improve 1 or 2 games, i'd say that's a colossal failure.

**yordad** · 07-12-2008, 10:06 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Originally posted by raphael120

You forgot to mention the key issues and question marks with this team.

Jauron, Schonert, and Fewell.

None of them have proven anything. None of them have proven they know how to manage a game or call the right plays at the right times. None of them have proven they know how to utilize their talent on their roster.

I honestly think that if we have a crap year again, we can blame it primarily on coaching. Wouldn't you? If we supposively have gotten better at every position and we only improve 1 or 2 games, i'd say that's a colossal failure.

Your right. Honestly, if we miss the playoffs, a part of me will want heads rollin.

But, the other part of me will think that another switch at the helm will only make our return to the post season even longer.

I guess we aren't the only talented team out there. That 5th and 6th spot looks like it is between us, the Steelers/Browns, the Titans, and the Broncos. I know the season hasn't exactly started yet, but that is how I see it. The Colts, Pats, Charges, and Jags seem even more talented then our talented team.

Maybe we just over achieved last year.

Deep down, I know DJ isn't the best game manager, but Schonert could make a world of difference. And, I know confidence is only half the battle, but Schonert doesn't seem like he is bluffing. He has said more of what I want to hear in one offseason, heck his first interview, then I seen or heard from Fairchild his entire tenure.

Now that you pointed out what I didn't mention, what do you think of what I did? DO you feel these things are likely? How do you feel about my assessment? And, I know some of my questions were kind of specific, and hard to remember, but do you remember how that DE worked early in the season?

**Mr. Pink** · 07-13-2008, 05:20 AM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

A very homeristic breakdown..let me inject some realism...

Trent vs Trent/JP....Worse. If Trent stumbles at all this year, Losman will clamour either publicly or privately that he should be on the field. And, yes, Edwards will stumble so it's more a when not an if. Young QBs have growing pains. Yes, I'm optimistic about Edwards but not if the team plays musical QBs...AGAIN.

RBs we're about even....Let's hope Lynch's off-field issues don't distract him on and as much as the A-train sucked. He did provide some leadership and blocking abilities in the backfield. Jackson being utilized more with be a plus and hopefully Dwayne Wright never touches the ball.

FB? If we use one it'll be an improvement in and of itself.

OLine? Same...still have a huge weak link in the center which is cause for major concern. And then obviously the Peters situation. Depending on how long his holdout lasts depends on if we improve marginally or regress at this position. Also is Langston Walker the guy we saw last year or the guy two years ago in Oakland? Question marks abound at this area.

WRs...Evans and a rookie + scrubs this year vs Evans and scrubs last year. Call it a push now. If Hardy performs we improved, if Hardy has a hard time adjusting it's the same old crap. And having a 4 million dollar 4th wide is plain old bad business. Don't care how good of a returner Parrish is...good returners are a dime a dozen in this league now.

TE...We got junk here...still. Royal? Garbage. Schouman? Garbage. Teyo Johnson? Athletic Garbage. What's that smell like? Manure.

DL...On paper, this is our area of greatest improvement. If Stroud is as good as advertised we're pretty solid here. It would be nice if McCargo can stay healthy though.

LB...We get to deal with POZ's growing pains and learning the MLB position. Remember defensively we improved after he went down. The learning curve at the position is great, lets hope he learned a little by watching.

Corners...eh? Still not happy with Toast McGee as the number 1. McKelvin can make this area improved though. Will James doesn't impress me, he just doesn't suck as bad as Youboty.

Safety? Don't like either guy partically much. Donte was overrated at ohio state and apparently thinks we're playoff bound. Anyone remember last time someone on our defense tooted their own horns? Exactly. And KO Simpson is now a 3rd year "rookie" basically.

Kicker SOLID Punter ALL PRO

there's a position by position breakdown as opposed to just guy vs guy.

**raphael120** · 07-13-2008, 11:30 AM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

All I've got to say is that the people who think that Edwards will be shaky in his second year and won't help us out much, those people should also realize we'll be shaky with Hardy, McKelvin, Poz, and Simpson. All of those guys are either rookies or practically still rookies.

**yordad** · 07-13-2008, 01:17 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Originally posted by FunTimesYaY!

A very homeristic breakdown..let me inject some realism... I think you mean pessimism

Trent vs Trent/JP....Worse. If Trent stumbles at all this year, Losman will clamour either publicly or privately that he should be on the field. And, yes, Edwards will stumble so it's more a when not an if. Young QBs have growing pains. Yes, I'm optimistic about Edwards but not if the team plays musical QBs...AGAIN. So, how is that worst again? Your saying the same situation as last year with a better Edwards is worst? Sounds slightly better, doesn't it? And that is the grim look.

RBs we're about even....Let's hope Lynch's off-field issues don't distract him on and as much as the A-train sucked. He did provide some leadership and blocking abilities in the backfield. Jackson being utilized more with be a plus and hopefully Dwayne Wright never touches the ball. Lynch got a traffic ticket. You say Jackson is a plus, and you say A-train sucked. A-train who is now gone, sucked. Lynch was a rookie last year and he was awesome. You say you shouldn't expect rookies to contribute much, implying they get better their second year. This again sound positive.
FB? If we use one it'll be an improvement in and of itself. Highfive

OLine? Same...still have a huge weak link in the center which is cause for major concern. And then obviously the Peters situation. Depending on how long his holdout lasts depends on if we improve marginally or regress at this position. Also is Langston Walker the guy we saw last year or the guy two years ago in Oakland? Question marks abound at this area. Entering their second full year together, how could they not be better then they were entering their first year? How is giving young guys more experience a bad thing? These things don't turn a crappy line into all pros, but they can make average run blockers better then average.

WRs...Evans and a rookie + scrubs this year vs Evans and scrubs last year. Call it a push now. If Hardy performs we improved, if Hardy has a hard time adjusting it's the same old crap. And having a 4 million dollar 4th wide is plain old bad business. Don't care how good of a returner Parrish is...good returners are a dime a dozen in this league now. I really don't understand your logic here. We are worst off because last years starter will now be a #3? And now our #4 is making too much money? No matter what our #3 and #4 receiver make in money, they aren't gonna get worst. And, Hardy would never touch the field if he wasn't gonna make this group better. So, you are basically trying to tell me no rookie wide receiver will play a down. Realism?

TE...We got junk here...still. Royal? Garbage. Schouman? Garbage. Teyo Johnson? Athletic Garbage. What's that smell like? Manure. We don't even have Teyo anymore man. But you are probably right here. Nothing changed, but that is what I said.

DL...On paper, this is our area of greatest improvement. If Stroud is as good as advertised we're pretty solid here. It would be nice if McCargo can stay healthy though. Highfive

LB...We get to deal with POZ's growing pains and learning the MLB position. Remember defensively we improved after he went down. The learning curve at the position is great, lets hope he learned a little by watching. Poz's first two NFL games he posted 22 tackes. 11 per game. 11 X 16 = 176. Patrick Willis led the NFL last tear with 174. If Poz starts over Digi (no brainer) then the position has been improved. If Digi starts over Poz then position has still been improved because Digi will obviously he would be better after gaining last years experience.

Corners...eh? Still not happy with Toast McGee as the number 1. McKelvin can make this area improved though. Will James doesn't impress me, he just doesn't suck as bad as Youboty. So, your saying we are better this year.

Safety? Don't like either guy partically much. Donte was overrated at ohio state and apparently thinks we're playoff bound. Anyone remember last time someone on our defense tooted their own horns? Exactly. And KO Simpson is now a 3rd year "rookie" basically. Just becasue you don't like our young safeties doesn't mean they didn't improve while gaining experience.

Kicker SOLID Punter ALL PRO Yeah, I didn't even mention our sweet kicker/punter.

there's a position by position breakdown as opposed to just guy vs guy.

I appreciate your reply. But, it sounds like you agreed with me through most, but somehow came to a different conclusion.

**yordad** · 07-13-2008, 01:19 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Originally posted by raphael120

All I've got to say is that the people who think that Edwards will be shaky in his second year and won't help us out much, those people should also realize we'll be shaky with Hardy, McKelvin, Poz, and Simpson. All of those guys are either rookies or practically still rookies.

If you want to call it "shaky", fine. All that means is we were worst then shaky last year, and still average, IMHO.

**feelthepain** · 07-13-2008, 01:28 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

How can you presume better or worse before even one camp? I think to call every position better or even is a bit homerish. Obviously there will be improvements, but there will also be declines. So to say everything is even or better just isn't a fair analysis. It's more wishful thinking then realistic.

**yordad** · 07-13-2008, 01:44 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Originally posted by feelthepain

How can you presume better or worse before even one camp? I think to call every position better or even is a bit homerish. Obviously there will be improvements, but there will also be declines. So to say everything is even or better just isn't a fair analysis. It's more wishful thinking then realistic.

OK, who is on the decline?

**John Doe** · 07-13-2008, 02:50 PM

Re: Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Originally posted by feelthepain

How can you presume better or worse before even one camp? I think to call every position better or even is a bit homerish. Obviously there will be improvements, but there will also be declines. So to say everything is even or better just isn't a fair analysis. It's more wishful thinking then realistic.

At this time of year, almost every fan of every team projects whether their team has improved on paper. It’s a fact of life and that is really all of what Yourdad has done in his post. If people have a problem with the analysis then they should create their own such as that presented by FunTimesYaY! I side with Yourdad – it seems to me that his analysis makes more sense because it is, for the most part, based on the logical assumption that young players get better, and the Bills have a lot of young players entering their 2^nd and 3^rd years. This is a highly motivated hard-working group – intangibles that were stressed by Levy when they were drafted. It reinforces the thought that they will improve. I think that, at this early stage, it is not logical to assume that guys like Whitner, Edwards, Simpson, McCargo, Williams, Peters, Lynch, Butler, Wright, Jackson, Digiorgio, and Poz will regress barring injury.

Of course there are unforeseen variables and contingencies that may not pan out. There is the argument that guys like Walker will revert to previous levels that were deemed inferior by some posters. There does not seem to be a cogent reason for this considering that Walker is in his prime and that this assumption of previous poor play may not even be accurate. After all, the Bills thought his play was pretty good in prior years and that is the reason that he was given a big contract in first place.

Also, players may become injured again. Last season the list seemed endless and a few of the ones left standing that were not on injured reserved played with injuries that normally would have sidelined them. Guys like Kelsay and Royal needed operations during the season but chose to play through. Maybe the same guys that were hurt last year get hurt again – it could happen but I don’t think that the odds are that it will. A lot of posters were projecting McCargo to be a constant injury problem and labeled him a bust. Now he looks quite promising.

At this point, it is much more speculative to consider which players will play worse than to project which ones should improve given that young motivated players usually do improve. If choosing to not address that facet of the game is a flaw in Yourdad’s analysis, then so be it, but this was an exercise on paper and was not presented to be anything else.

Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

Position-by-position side-by-side '07 to '08 Bills roster comparison

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