Looking at our depth chart, we have nothing but great players.

[Mitchell55]

QB- Edwards- right now has been the best QB in his class.
RB- Lynch- top 10 and even top 6 back
WR- Evans- best deep ball receiver in the past 2 years. Hardy, tallest starting receiver in the NFL, and had 36 TDS in 4 years. Thats almost a TD a game.
TE- Royal- very good blocking TE. Anderson and Johnson- huge red zone targets.
OL- Peters- one of the best. Doc- another great OL. Walker- probably the biggest OL in the NFL. Butler- great young player. Fowler- ok player. :(
DL- Schobel- has been a dominant pass rusher in the past 4 years. Stroud, one of the most dominant DTs in the past 7 years, McCargo- up and rising DT, Williams and Johnson could be starters for a team like Houston or Arizona.
LB- Pos- 22 tackles in 2 1/2 games. Mitchell- starting LB on the NFL champions. Crowell- 8 in the NFL with tackles. Digi- 20 on the NFL with tackles.
CB- McKelvin- best CB in college. McGee- talk to Ocho Cinco,
S- Whitner- Ocho Cinco again (basically McGee shut him down, Whitner shut him up)

KR- McGee- should of made the pro bowl 2 years ago. McKelvin- best return man in college.
PR- Parrish- Almost set a record.

[OpIv37]

Wow, this post is the very definition of "homer".

Hardy's not a starter (although he probably will be at some point this season).
Teyo Johnson's already been cut. Anderson's done nothing. Royal sucks.

I like both Lynch and Edwards but I think you're giving them both a little too much credit.

Schobel had 6.5 sacks last year. That's anything but dominant. S Johnson could probably be a starter but I'm not sure about Williams.

Whitner's done nothing in 2 years except that hit on Johnson.

[Mitchell55]

Wow, this post is the very definition of "homer".

Hardy's not a starter (although he probably will be at some point this season).
Teyo Johnson's already been cut. Anderson's done nothing. Royal sucks.

I like both Lynch and Edwards but I think you're giving them both a little too much credit.

Schobel had 6.5 sacks last year. That's anything but dominant. S Johnson could probably be a starter but I'm not sure about Williams.

Whitner's done nothing in 2 years except that hit on Johnson.


A few things. Other than last year, Schobel WAS one of the dominant pass rushers in the NFL. Lynch was number 7 in all around stats. Edwards was true in a weird way. Whitner has been our Defensive leader so far. People just knock him because of Ngata was still on the board.


Edit- Royal also has been a good PB but thats it. I havent got on the internet much to find out Teyo was cut. I didnt say much about Anderson except he is good in the red zone.

[Buffatexas]

[QUOTE=OpIv37]
I like both Lynch and Edwards but I think you're giving them both a little too much credit.
QUOTE]

ummm....JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, John Beck, Kevin Kolb and Drew Stanton. All first and second round picks. They saw hardly any playing time. Trent Edwards won the job and performed, thus what MLYNCH23 is saying about Trent being the best in his class thus far is bang on the money.

[OpIv37]

A few things. Other than last year, Schobel WAS one of the dominant pass rushers in the NFL. Lynch was number 7 in all around stats. Edwards was true in a weird way. Whitner has been our Defensive leader so far. People just knock him because of Ngata was still on the board.


Edit- Royal also has been a good PB but thats it. I havent got on the internet much to find out Teyo was cut. I didnt say much about Anderson except he is good in the red zone.

People keep saying Whitner is a defensive leader- why? Where did this come from? Where's the proof? And defensive leader or not, his play and his stats are still awful.

As far as Schobel, a lot of his sacks in those "dominant" years were garbage time sacks that padded his numbers. Plus, his worst year is his most recent.

I think our TE's are terrible. I remember that game against the Colts where Royal got owned by Freeney and gave up the sack that killed our last chance at the game- he's not that great of a blocker. I'm hoping Schouman shows something because the rest of them are worthless.

[OpIv37]

ummm....JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, John Beck, Kevin Kolb and Drew Stanton. All first and second round picks. They saw hardly any playing time. Trent Edwards won the job and performed, thus what MLYNCH23 is saying about Trent being the best in his class thus far is bang on the money.

best in his class because the rest of those guys rode the pine a lot more than he did.

Anyway, it's irrelevant. It's not Edwards' job to be the best in his class. It's his job to play well enough to help the Bills win. And while I think there's a good chance he'll be a decent QB, the season starts in less than two months and he's still inexperienced. And that is going to hurt us.

[Mitchell55]

People keep saying Whitner is a defensive leader- why? Where did this come from? Where's the proof? And defensive leader or not, his play and his stats are still awful.

As far as Schobel, a lot of his sacks in those "dominant" years were garbage time sacks that padded his numbers. Plus, his worst year is his most recent.

I think our TE's are terrible. I remember that game against the Colts where Royal got owned by Freeney and gave up the sack that killed our last chance at the game- he's not that great of a blocker. I'm hoping Schouman shows something because the rest of them are worthless.


I don't care if we are losing by 3 in the last drive and he gets a sack or if we are winning by 63 and he gets a sack. A sack is a sack no matter what point in the game.

[OpIv37]

I don't care if we are losing by 3 in the last drive and he gets a sack or if we are winning by 63 and he gets a sack. A sack is a sack no matter at what point in the game.

Not true- if we're winning by a lot and the other team has to pass to catch up, it gives the DE's a huge advantage because they can go right after the QB without having to worry about playing the run. Just because he was able to get a sack late in the 4th when we're up by 3 scores does NOT mean he could have made that same play if the game was tied or if it was the middle of the 2nd quarter.

[mayotm]

People keep saying Whitner is a defensive leader- why? Where did this come from? Where's the proof? And defensive leader or not, his play and his stats are still awful.

As far as Schobel, a lot of his sacks in those "dominant" years were garbage time sacks that padded his numbers. Plus, his worst year is his most recent.

I think our TE's are terrible. I remember that game against the Colts where Royal got owned by Freeney and gave up the sack that killed our last chance at the game- he's not that great of a blocker. I'm hoping Schouman shows something because the rest of them are worthless.I get a bit sick of the "garbage time" sack theory about Schobel. Here's another perspective. How many times during his career has Schobel been able to just tee off because the Bills had a huge lead and the opponent was forced to pass for the entire fourth quarter? Conversely, how often has a team been milking a lead against the Bills during the fourth quarter and running the ball every play? Schobel hasn't been dominant, but he's been pretty damn good. Certainly a lot better than some like to give him credit for.

[Turf]

The lack of a coach with top strategical skills will kill this lineup. This team needs a gameplan. When I see this coaching staff actually outcoach anyone I'll jump on the bandwagon, until then I'm not a believer.

[Ickybaluky]

ummm....JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, John Beck, Kevin Kolb and Drew Stanton. All first and second round picks. They saw hardly any playing time. Trent Edwards won the job and performed, thus what MLYNCH23 is saying about Trent being the best in his class thus far is bang on the money.

Troy Smith?

[John Doe]

I get a bit sick of the "garbage time" sack theory about Schobel. Here's another perspective. How many times during his career has Schobel been able to just tee off because the Bills had a huge lead and the opponent was forced to pass for the entire fourth quarter? Conversely, how often has a team been milking a lead against the Bills during the fourth quarter and running the ball every play? Schobel hasn't been dominant, but he's been pretty damn good. Certainly a lot better than some like to give him credit for.

Good Post.

And... untill someone does an analysis of all defensive ends and the circumstances behind all of their sacks - then the "Schobel gets a lot of his sacks in garbage time" theory is rubbish itself.

[Buffatexas]

Troy Smith?

I thought Smith was in the later rounds

[Mitchell55]

I thought Smith was in the later rounds




Was but got playing time so I guess he counts.

[SABURZFAN]

the Bills have a few starting positions that are average-below average. if those positions get hit with the injury bug, it could spell immediate trouble. the Bills depth is not really as strong as we Bills fans would like to think.

[Mitchell55]

the Bills have a few starting positions that are average-below average. if those positions get hit with the injury bug, it could spell immediate trouble. the Bills depth is not really as strong as we Bills fans would like to think.




Which positions? Id say DE, SS, TE, OT, and G.

[OpIv37]

Good Post.

And... untill someone does an analysis of all defensive ends and the circumstances behind all of their sacks - then the "Schobel gets a lot of his sacks in garbage time" theory is rubbish itself.

Well his 6.5 sacks last year aren't rubbish- it's fact.

Lining up way outside the tackle and overshooting the play isn't rubbish- it's on the damn tapes.

Whether the garbage time sack theory is accurate or not, he's still overrated and overpaid.

Want a simpler analysis? Go look at the number of times Schobel had a great game then disappeared for weeks at a time with no sacks- even in the years when he was getting double digit sacks. He's not a consistent player and doesn't deserve the accolades or the paycheck.

[Mitchell55]

Well his 6.5 sacks last year aren't rubbish- it's fact.

Lining up way outside the tackle and overshooting the play isn't rubbish- it's on the damn tapes.

Whether the garbage time sack theory is accurate or not, he's still overrated and overpaid.

Want a simpler analysis? Go look at the number of times Schobel had a great game then disappeared for weeks at a time with no sacks- even in the years when he was getting double digit sacks. He's not a consistent player and doesn't deserve the accolades or the paycheck.



Youve spent the whole post bashing our top DE. Just relax and try acting like a bills supporter for once.

[raphael120]

Theres a difference between being a Bills supporter and an irrational Bills fanatic.

[Mitchell55]

Theres a difference between being a Bills supporter and an irrational Bills fanatic.



Hey, im just a big time bills fans who hate seeing our team bashed. I get that enough every where else. A bills forum should be a little different.

[Night Train]

" I'm a little sick of the great player talk "

[Mr. Pink]

Great players in this league....

Brady, Moss, TO, Tomlinson, Urlacher, Ray Ray, KII, Peyton, Samuel...

Who on our squad resembles any of these guys?

[John Doe]

Want a simpler analysis? Go look at the number of times Schobel had a great game then disappeared for weeks at a time with no sacks- even in the years
when he was getting double digit sacks. He's not a consistent player and doesn't deserve the accolades or the paycheck.

Untill someone does a comparative analysis of all of the sacks of all of the defensive ends throughout their careers and the frequency and consistency of when they get them, then I consider that this theory is garbage too. I would suggest that many of the top sack leaders get their sacks in bunches as well.

I nominate you to do that analysis, since you are the most vocal about it.

And do the "garbage time sack" analysis while you are at it.

Try proving your points for a change instead of just making things up.

[mayotm]

Great players in this league....

Brady, Moss, TO, Tomlinson, Urlacher, Ray Ray, KII, Peyton, Samuel...

Who on our squad resembles any of these guys?I agree that the great player term gets over-used. The Bills have several young good players. With a few possibly having the chance to move into the great debate. At this point, you can remove Ray Ray from the list. He is no longer great.

[X-Era]

Wow, this post is the very definition of "homer".

Hardy's not a starter (although he probably will be at some point this season).
Teyo Johnson's already been cut. Anderson's done nothing. Royal sucks.

I like both Lynch and Edwards but I think you're giving them both a little too much credit.

Schobel had 6.5 sacks last year. That's anything but dominant. S Johnson could probably be a starter but I'm not sure about Williams.

Whitner's done nothing in 2 years except that hit on Johnson.

Dont disagree that the starting post was a bit exagerrated.

But, theres a few points that where your taking it too far the other way.

Schobel, has gone to the pro-bowl. Yes, he had a down year last year. So did Freeney, Will Smith who had seven sacks, and Abraham who had 10. Calvin Pace had the same number of sacks as Schobel, and just signed a huge contract (6 years 42 mill, 22 mill guaranteed with the Jets). We resigned Schobel in 07 for 7 years, 50 mill. We have the same production or better (Pace has never been a pro-bowler) at less money.

Im not saying Schobel is a top 5 DE in this league, but he isnt just average either.

I think anyone who says Whitner has done nothing should provide evidence. Only because its hard to "see" what a SS does. They arent going against the top WR's, and they arent the first line of defense against runners. Whats the tangible difference between the top few SS's and Whitner? Is there some stats to point out that he has done nothing? Or is it simply that we assume hes done nothing because he isnt grabbing media attention like Roy Williams?

The DT situation is just fine in my opinion. I think many here want us to have 4 pro-bowl caliper DT's. Thats just never going to happen. Instead we have 1, a vet who was stuck behind the best tandem in the league Williams and Williams (Minn), and two very young guys both of which have shown they can play, and one of which (McCargo) just keeps getting better and better.

Im not going to boast the way the starting post did. But I like what we have and we do not suck by any means talent wise.

[Mitchy moo]

QB- Edwards- right now has been the best QB in his class.
RB- Lynch- top 10 and even top 6 back
WR- Evans- best deep ball receiver in the past 2 years. Hardy, tallest starting receiver in the NFL, and had 36 TDS in 4 years. Thats almost a TD a game.
TE- Royal- very good blocking TE. Anderson and Johnson- huge red zone targets.
OL- Peters- one of the best. Doc- another great OL. Walker- probably the biggest OL in the NFL. Butler- great young player. Fowler- ok player. :(
DL- Schobel- has been a dominant pass rusher in the past 4 years. Stroud, one of the most dominant DTs in the past 7 years, McCargo- up and rising DT, Williams and Johnson could be starters for a team like Houston or Arizona.
LB- Pos- 22 tackles in 2 1/2 games. Mitchell- starting LB on the NFL champions. Crowell- 8 in the NFL with tackles. Digi- 20 on the NFL with tackles.
CB- McKelvin- best CB in college. McGee- talk to Ocho Cinco,
S- Whitner- Ocho Cinco again (basically McGee shut him down, Whitner shut him up)

KR- McGee- should of made the pro bowl 2 years ago. McKelvin- best return man in college.
PR- Parrish- Almost set a record.


http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/to-do-list-tattoo.jpg

[X-Era]

Great players in this league....

Brady, Moss, TO, Tomlinson, Urlacher, Ray Ray, KII, Peyton, Samuel...

Who on our squad resembles any of these guys?

All the players you list have been to the SB. This may be a case where your eating up the media hype thats constantly fed to you.

I just dont listen to the media. They read the stat sheets, and hype the playoff or SB players. Thats their gig.

Great players arent defined by the media, or popularity, they are defined by their play... at least thats how it should be.

[Mr. Pink]

All the players you list have been to the SB. This may be a case where your eating up the media hype thats constantly fed to you.

I just dont listen to the media. They read the stat sheets, and hype the playoff or SB players. Thats their gig.

Great players arent defined by the media, or popularity, they are defined by their play... at least thats how it should be.


KII and LT have been in the SB? TO?

LT is the best player in the game today, period, and has never sniffed a SB let alone been in one.

[X-Era]

KII and LT have been in the SB? TO?

LT is the best player in the game today, period, and has never sniffed a SB let alone been in one.
MY mistake.

Your talking about LT who is the best RB every damn year for years now. TO is not that great, that just how I feel, if he didnt have such a big mouth, he wouldnt be so famous. What has TO EVER done thats so fantastic?

I honestly would take Roy Williams or Chad Johnson over EITHER Randy Moss or TO. They are better, younger players. But thats an opinion that the hype mongering media will never agree with.

LT is one of the best RB's ever so I agree with you there.

I would take Marshawn Lynch over probably 80% of the starting RB's in this league.

Heres a list of guys where I like Marshawn better:
Maroney- hes at the plateau on a SB caliper team, he wont get much better if at all and hes an equal in talent to Lynch now who will get better
Grant
Jacobs
Larry Johnson
Kevin Jones
Julius Jones
Michael Turner
Ronnie Brown
Barber- Barber and Lynch are similar, Barber has lots more stats, I think Lynch has better potential
Reggie Bush- there I said it. Reggie may have all world potential, but its still just potential. Lynch has proven hes pretty damn good.
McGahee
Taylor- hes a better RB than Lynch but can never make it through a whole season, I prefer Lynchs durability
Thomas Jones
Edge- at this point

Guys that are right on par with him:
Brian Westbrook- never been a big fan, but you cant argue with his stats
Steven Jackson
Clinton Portis- He can be a top 3 RB but hes up and down year in year out
Joseph Addai- hes borderline on my "Lynch is better than him" only because I think Addai is an average back, but plays on a star offense (and benefits bigtime). Lynch gets it done with our questionable offense of last year.
Peterson- great year, awesome year, but I still think hes injury prone and a few years will tell a different story more like Fred Taylor.

Guys that I think are better than Lynch:
Frank Gore
LT-duhh

Thats my opinion, its based on gut feel, NOT alot of data.

[Mr. Pink]

MY mistake.

I would take Marshawn Lynch over probably 80% of the starting RB's in this league.

Heres a list of guys where I like Marshawn better:
Maroney- hes at the plateau on a SB caliper team, he wont get much better if at all and hes an equal in talent to Lynch now who will get better
Grant
Jacobs
Larry Johnson
Kevin Jones
Julius Jones
Michael Turner
Ronnie Brown
Barber- Barber and Lynch are similar, Barber has lots more stats, I think Lynch has better potential
Reggie Bush- there I said it. Reggie may have all world potential, but its still just potential. Lynch has proven hes pretty damn good.
McGahee
Taylor- hes a better RB than Lynch but can never make it through a whole season, I prefer Lynchs durability
Thomas Jones
Edge- at this point

Guys that are right on par with him:
Brian Westbrook- never been a big fan, but you cant argue with his stats
Steven Jackson
Clinton Portis- He can be a top 3 RB but hes up and down year in year out
Joseph Addai- hes borderline on my "Lynch is better than him" only because I think Addai is an average back, but plays on a star offense (and benefits bigtime). Lynch gets it done with our questionable offense of last year.
Peterson- great year, awesome year, but I still think hes injury prone and a few years will tell a different story more like Fred Taylor.

Guys that I think are better than Lynch:
Frank Gore
LT-duhh

Thats my opinion, its based on gut feel, NOT alot of data.

I would put Marshawn in the middle of the pack right now RB wise...

His style is very similiar to Jamal Lewis, at least with how he was used in the offense.

He gets the nod over Jamal at this point because he's younger, Lewis is an OLD 29.

But you got Gore, LT, Steven Jackson, Maroney, Portis, Westbrook, Addai, Peterson, McGahee, Ronnie Brown who'd I put all over Marshawn right now. Grant, Barber, Jordan-if he comes back from injury, Lynch are all interchangeable right now as to where they fit in the top backs of the league.

I will agree that Lynch is our closest thing to a "star" outside of Peters, but time will tell if he improves on his season and ascends that ladder. Remember we were all psyched up on McGahee after his rookie year too.

I also completely agree on Bush....Eric Metcalf Jr. Have been saying it since before he was even drafted.

Sadly though, Brian Moorman is our most consistent and best performer and has been for a few years now. I can't call a punter a star though.

[Ickybaluky]

Great players in this league....

Brady, Moss, TO, Tomlinson, Urlacher, Ray Ray, KII, Peyton, Samuel...

Who on our squad resembles any of these guys?

Jason Peters is already among the best at his position. Brian Moorman as well.

Other than those two, I can't think of any Bill who I would put in the top-5 at their position. They have a few who are just beyond that (Schobel, Dockery, Evans for instance).

Part of that is their overall youth, as they have some emerging players. A guy like Lynch falls into that category. Until they do it with some consistency, it is hard to know how they will develop. There is no question Buffalo has brought in some young, talented guys in the last few years. However, until they prove it, it remains potential.

I think one key is Edwards. I really like the kid and think he has a chance to be a real good player at the games most pivotal position. The question I have at this point is: how high is his ceiling? The only way to answer that is proving it over time. That is what makes this such an interesting year in Buffalo.

[mysticsoto]

A few things. Other than last year, Schobel WAS one of the dominant pass rushers in the NFL. Lynch was number 7 in all around stats. Edwards was true in a weird way. Whitner has been our Defensive leader so far. People just knock him because of Ngata was still on the board.


Edit- Royal also has been a good PB but thats it. I havent got on the internet much to find out Teyo was cut. I didnt say much about Anderson except he is good in the red zone.

So substitute Johnson for Schouman at TE and you're fine. And actually, the way the FO has been talking about Schouman, he might surpass Royal on the depth chart...he got to practice alot with the 1st team since he was the only TE there during OTAs and picked up alot! Boy would it be nice for a good TE to step up finally.

[ddaryl]

A few things. Other than last year, Schobel WAS one of the dominant pass rushers in the NFL.
.

Schobel has NEVER been dominant. He has had moments but I would never mention Schobels name next to any HOF DE...

[mysticsoto]

Jason Peters is already among the best at his position. Brian Moorman as well.

Other than those two, I can't think of any Bill who I would put in the top-5 at their position. They have a few who are just beyond that (Schobel, Dockery, Evans for instance).


McGee/Parrish on kick/punt returns?

[HHURRICANE]

This is not a team of great players. Maybe great potential if you are an optimist and not insane.

[OpIv37]

Untill someone does a comparative analysis of all of the sacks of all of the defensive ends throughout their careers and the frequency and consistency of when they get them, then I consider that this theory is garbage too. I would suggest that many of the top sack leaders get their sacks in bunches as well.

I nominate you to do that analysis, since you are the most vocal about it.

And do the "garbage time sack" analysis while you are at it.

Try proving your points for a change instead of just making things up.


I could waste a bunch of time doing that, or I could just watch the games and watch Schobel continuously being ineffective while people like you insist that he's not ineffective.

[Mr. Pink]

McGee/Parrish on kick/punt returns?

That's also a problem for me too...year in and year out someone new emerges as a top thread at KR/PR position...good returners are a dime a dozen these days in the NFL.

And having a McGee/Parrish nets a difference of what? 5-7 on league average?

[OpIv37]

Youve spent the whole post bashing our top DE. Just relax and try acting like a bills supporter for once.

I'm bashing him because I AM a Bills supporter. I want the Bills to win and his lackluster play is one of many reasons why we aren't winning. When he helps the Bills win, I'll stop bashing him.

[Mr. Pink]

I could waste a bunch of time doing that, or I could just watch the games and watch Schobel continuously being ineffective while people like you insist that he's not ineffective.

Some people just look at that stats and go wow he must be good! Look at those sack totals over his career!

Other people like you and I watch the games and see Schoebel running himself out of position 4 out of 5 plays.

[Ickybaluky]

McGee/Parrish on kick/punt returns?

That is a good one.

I think the top-3 returners in the NFL are:

Joshua Cribbs, Devin Hester, Leon Washington

After that, there is a group of pretty good returners. However, the McGee/Parrish combo is probably top-5 in the NFL.

[Mitchy moo]

That is a good one.

I think the top-3 returners in the NFL are:

Joshua Cribbs, Devin Hester, Leon Washington

After that, there is a group of pretty good returners. However, the McGee/Parrish combo is probably top-5 in the NFL.

I bet that McKelvin gets his foot in that door as well, that would basically gives us 3 in the top 10 on one team. That makes us scary on ST and gives us a field position advantage. You also have to add in our probowler's punts into the equation and that tilts the field as well.

[Mr. Pink]

I bet that McKelvin gets his foot in that door as well, that would basically gives us 3 in the top 10 on one team. That makes us scary on ST and gives us a field position advantage. You also have to add in our probowler's punts into the equation and that tilts the field as well.

What?

Why in the hell would the Bills take a first round pick and put him out there returning kicks? That would be friggin stupid especially with what we already have.

[Ickybaluky]

I bet that McKelvin gets his foot in that door as well, that would basically gives us 3 in the top 10 on one team. That makes us scary on ST and gives us a field position advantage. You also have to add in our probowler's punts into the equation and that tilts the field as well.

The Bills are already strong with returners (McGee/Parrish), so it is hard to see that as a huge upgrade. For where he was drafted, McKelvin's impact should be in the secondary.

It will be interesting to see if the Bills ST are impacted by losing some players who have been core ST guys (Wire, Haggans, Aiken).

[gr8slayer]

Give the kid a break, he's only 14.

[Mitchell55]

That is a good one.

I think the top-3 returners in the NFL are:

Joshua Cribbs, Devin Hester, Leon Washington

After that, there is a group of pretty good returners. However, the McGee/Parrish combo is probably top-5 in the NFL.





Well this year we have the best return man in college and Jackson who was a good return man in NFL euro.

[Mitchell55]

I bet that McKelvin gets his foot in that door as well, that would basically gives us 3 in the top 10 on one team. That makes us scary on ST and gives us a field position advantage. You also have to add in our probowler's punts into the equation and that tilts the field as well.




Wouldnt it be scary if we have McGee and Parrish maybe rushing the punter and have McKelvin returning the punt. Or McKelvin and McGee rushing the punter and Parrish returning kicks. You have 2 realy fast players rushing you and a top returner on the other end.

[Mitchell55]

Give the kid a break, he's only 14.





Please dont. And its 15

[raphael120]

I'm tired of speculating that we MIGHT have some good players with nothing to back it up aside from "potential".

I want to SEE we have good players and have solid evidence that we have impact players. I want so much to say that Poz is a difference maker and will be huge on D, but I dont know that. But hopefully we'll all find out he will be and he'll show it on the field by being a leader on our D

[Novacane]

We have nothing but great players? Come on!

[John Doe]

Some people just look at that stats and go wow he must be good! Look at those sack totals over his career!

Other people like you and I watch the games and see Schoebel running himself out of position 4 out of 5 plays.

Schobel is really an amazing player, when you think about it.

Here he is, taking himself out of the play 80% of the time and still managing to have annual averages of:

58 tackles/assists

9.5 sacks

2.5 forced fumbles.

I could not find stats on QB "pressures"

Imagine, if you will, Schobel taking the correct course of action 80% of the time!

We are looking at :

174 tackles/assists!

28.5 sacks!

7.5 forced fumbles!

You have to admit, Schobel is one of the great football players of all time!

He just has a poor sense of direction. It's a pity.

[gr8slayer]

Please dont. And its 15
ok, your post was nothing short of dip****. Better?

[SABURZFAN]

Jason Peters is already among the best at his position. Brian Moorman as well.

Other than those two, I can't think of any Bill who I would put in the top-5 at their position. They have a few who are just beyond that (Schobel, Dockery, Evans for instance).

Part of that is their overall youth, as they have some emerging players. A guy like Lynch falls into that category. Until they do it with some consistency, it is hard to know how they will develop. There is no question Buffalo has brought in some young, talented guys in the last few years. However, until they prove it, it remains potential.

I think one key is Edwards. I really like the kid and think he has a chance to be a real good player at the games most pivotal position. The question I have at this point is: how high is his ceiling? The only way to answer that is proving it over time. That is what makes this such an interesting year in Buffalo.


great post. :up: you hit the nail on the head with your evaluation of the Bills.

[John Doe]

The Bills are already strong with returners (McGee/Parrish), so it is hard to see that as a huge upgrade. For where he was drafted, McKelvin's impact should be in the secondary.

It will be interesting to see if the Bills ST are impacted by losing some players who have been core ST guys (Wire, Haggans, Aiken).

The Bills had no depth at kick returner las season and ended up having guys like Jim Leonhard fill in as punt returner when they gave Roscoe Parrish a break there. McKelvin will help as a returner for sure.

As far as special teams are concerned:

Haggan, Wire, and Josh Stamer will be missed, but Sam Aiken did not really have a very good year on special teams last season - only 3 solo tackles and 1 assist. An injury slowed him down and Jenkins (his replacement) came in and played lights-out as a gunner.

On the plus side, the Bills drafted one of the best college special teams players of 2007 (Derek Fine) and there are hopes that another rookie (Alvin Bowen) will contribut there as well.

Something else to consider: Now that Poz has returned and Mitchell will start at outside linebacker, it frees up John DiGiorgio to return to special teams full time - that is where he made the team in the first place.

Also, Jason Whittle returns from an injury that kept him out for most of last season.

And...Bobby April is still coaching.

[HHURRICANE]

Jason Peters is already among the best at his position. Brian Moorman as well.

Other than those two, I can't think of any Bill who I would put in the top-5 at their position. They have a few who are just beyond that (Schobel, Dockery, Evans for instance).

Part of that is their overall youth, as they have some emerging players. A guy like Lynch falls into that category. Until they do it with some consistency, it is hard to know how they will develop. There is no question Buffalo has brought in some young, talented guys in the last few years. However, until they prove it, it remains potential.

I think one key is Edwards. I really like the kid and think he has a chance to be a real good player at the games most pivotal position. The question I have at this point is: how high is his ceiling? The only way to answer that is proving it over time. That is what makes this such an interesting year in Buffalo.

NE39 just put in the best post on this thread. It would be nice to have more "Bills" posters that are this smart.

[TigerJ]

I like the Bills personnel this year more than I have in some time. I think they have fewer holes. They are one of the younger teams in the NFL, but hey have experienced depth at a lot of positions thanks to an injury riddled '07 season. I'm not ready to say they have nothing but great players though.

Trent Edwards is a promising young QB.
Lynch is a good young RB.
Evans is a burner with hands and blocking ability, who can be taken out of games without another receiver to take the heat off.
Hardy is a big athletic receiver who has done nothing at the pro level (obviously)
Royal is a decent blocking TE who had a down year because of injury. Everyone else at the TE position is a question mark, though they have some potential.
The offensive line is good but could stand to get better. They are not yet a dominant run blocking line, though with Butler having a year of starting under his belt, they stand to get better. They are thin when it comes to second liners though.

Schobel is a good, but not elite DE. Stroud has to prove two injury riddled seasons are behind him. McCargo needs to continue developing. Williams does a good job with limited athleticism while Johnson is undersized but versatile.
The linebacking crew looks to have three solid starters, though we're making some assumptions about Poz based on only three games at the pro level. That can be a risky habit. They also have two solid depth players in Digi and Ellison. The other OLB who figures to make the team will be a rookie.
I do love the secondary. The Bills drafted arguably the best CB in the draft. They have two CBs who started all last season in Greer and McGee, yet another CB with ample starting experience in Will James who seems to have made a full recovery from injury problems. Youboty's been an underachiever so far in his NFL career, but he handled himself OK in limited starts last season. Top it off with a couple additional rookies. At safety, Whitner is a fixture. He hasn't made the big plays we'd hope to see from him, but the explanation from the Bills is that they have not had the right personnel around him to free him up from his run coverage responsibilities enough to let him roam a little more. Ko Simpson is the starter from two years ago at FS. Wilson started and did a credible job last season. Bryann Scott is a pretty solid SS reserve and Wendling is an athletic freak, who with a year under his belt to overcome a weak college background might be ready to challenge Scott for some reps in relief of Whitner.

Add to that a return game that should be in the top 5 in the league and coverage teams that should be among the best, and I am more optimistic about the Bills than I have been in a while. BUT. . .

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

MY mistake.

Your talking about LT who is the best RB every damn year for years now. TO is not that great, that just how I feel, if he didnt have such a big mouth, he wouldnt be so famous. What has TO EVER done thats so fantastic?

I honestly would take Roy Williams or Chad Johnson over EITHER Randy Moss or TO. They are better, younger players. But thats an opinion that the hype mongering media will never agree with.

LT is one of the best RB's ever so I agree with you there.

I would take Marshawn Lynch over probably 80% of the starting RB's in this league.

Heres a list of guys where I like Marshawn better:
Maroney- hes at the plateau on a SB caliper team, he wont get much better if at all and hes an equal in talent to Lynch now who will get better
Grant
Jacobs
Larry Johnson
Kevin Jones
Julius Jones
Michael Turner
Ronnie Brown
Barber- Barber and Lynch are similar, Barber has lots more stats, I think Lynch has better potential
Reggie Bush- there I said it. Reggie may have all world potential, but its still just potential. Lynch has proven hes pretty damn good.
McGahee
Taylor- hes a better RB than Lynch but can never make it through a whole season, I prefer Lynchs durability
Thomas Jones
Edge- at this point

Guys that are right on par with him:
Brian Westbrook- never been a big fan, but you cant argue with his stats
Steven Jackson
Clinton Portis- He can be a top 3 RB but hes up and down year in year out
Joseph Addai- hes borderline on my "Lynch is better than him" only because I think Addai is an average back, but plays on a star offense (and benefits bigtime). Lynch gets it done with our questionable offense of last year.
Peterson- great year, awesome year, but I still think hes injury prone and a few years will tell a different story more like Fred Taylor.

Guys that I think are better than Lynch:
Frank Gore
LT-duhh

Thats my opinion, its based on gut feel, NOT alot of data.

Woah woah, Brain Westbrook is right there with LYNCH? dude, lynch is no where near westbrook yet, no where near him..Steven Jackson? cmon dude, you've got to be kidding me, just because steven jackson had a downfall last year, he was hurt, and his entire O-Line was hurt..And he's not there with peterson, not yet..Dont get wrong, i love marshawn, but he's no where near the guys i have just said.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

QB- Edwards- right now has been the best QB in his class.
RB- Lynch- top 10 and even top 6 back
WR- Evans- best deep ball receiver in the past 2 years. Hardy, tallest starting receiver in the NFL, and had 36 TDS in 4 years. Thats almost a TD a game.
TE- Royal- very good blocking TE. Anderson and Johnson- huge red zone targets.
OL- Peters- one of the best. Doc- another great OL. Walker- probably the biggest OL in the NFL. Butler- great young player. Fowler- ok player. :(
DL- Schobel- has been a dominant pass rusher in the past 4 years. Stroud, one of the most dominant DTs in the past 7 years, McCargo- up and rising DT, Williams and Johnson could be starters for a team like Houston or Arizona.
LB- Pos- 22 tackles in 2 1/2 games. Mitchell- starting LB on the NFL champions. Crowell- 8 in the NFL with tackles. Digi- 20 on the NFL with tackles.
CB- McKelvin- best CB in college. McGee- talk to Ocho Cinco,
S- Whitner- Ocho Cinco again (basically McGee shut him down, Whitner shut him up)

KR- McGee- should of made the pro bowl 2 years ago. McKelvin- best return man in college.
PR- Parrish- Almost set a record.


As for this..We are far from having great players, like NE said, Jason Peters and Brain Mooreman are the only two established at their position..if you wanna throw Dockery in there, maybe..but to they're GREAT? is a little out there, id say they're pretty good..

Trent Edwards is alright, he really hasnt proved much..
MLynch- Shown us what he can do, he'll be a very good running back..
FB-??? enough said..
WR's- Evans is always solid..Hardy, a rookie with no NFL Experiance...
OL- Peters, Dockery..awesome...Butler, Walker, Fowler, not that great, in fact, i dont think they're even that good..besides maybe fowler..
TE- umm, yaa..we're anything but great at this position..this is gonna be awful this year..
DL/DE- OK, Stroud and Schoebel are great..Kelsay, mccargo, williams, ellis, not so great..
LB- Poz, he's promising..Crowell has proven what he can do, and is good..Mitchell, just has a superbowl ring, he did good i suppose didnt really watch him much..only when he picked off TE for a TD =(
DB's- haha..McGee- Gets burned all the time, but is average for the most part..McKelvin, i like this guy alot..hasnt played at the NFL level yet, so unproven..
SS/FS- Donte Whitner, some big mothed ***** better step his game and play better to get this team in the playoffs, or he's gonna look like a real jackass..
Ko Simpson, i dont know if he's starting, he might be? if he is, i like him but really hasnt proved anything..

KR-Awesome.
PR.Awesome.

So to say we have all great players, is really being homerish..which i dont really mind, im just saying that we really dont have any great players, besides peters and mooreman.

[Mitchell55]

As for this..We are far from having great players, like NE said, Jason Peters and Brain Mooreman are the only two established at their position..if you wanna throw Dockery in there, maybe..but to they're GREAT? is a little out there, id say they're pretty good..

Trent Edwards is alright, he really hasnt proved much..
MLynch- Shown us what he can do, he'll be a very good running back..
FB-??? enough said..
WR's- Evans is always solid..Hardy, a rookie with no NFL Experiance...
OL- Peters, Dockery..awesome...Butler, Walker, Fowler, not that great, in fact, i dont think they're even that good..besides maybe fowler..
TE- umm, yaa..we're anything but great at this position..this is gonna be awful this year..
DL/DE- OK, Stroud and Schoebel are great..Kelsay, mccargo, williams, ellis, not so great..
LB- Poz, he's promising..Crowell has proven what he can do, and is good..Mitchell, just has a probowl ring, he did good i suppose didnt really watch him much..only when he picked off TE for a TD =(
DB's- haha..McGee- Gets burned all the time, but is average for the most part..McKelvin, i like this guy alot..hasnt played at the NFL level yet, so unproven..
SS/FS- Donte Whitner, some big mothed ***** better step his game and play better to get this team in the playoffs, or he's gonna look like a real jackass..
Ko Simpson, i dont know if he's starting, he might be? if he is, i like him but really hasnt proved anything..

KR-Awesome.
PR.Awesome.

So to say we have all great players, is really being homerish..which i dont really mind, im just saying that we really dont have any great players, besides peters and mooreman.




A few things to point out. Butler and Walker had a better season than Doc and JP. McCargo had his 1st good season. Ellis hasnt even played and could of been a 2nd round pick with more effort. You forgot about Johnson who was stuck behind 2 all star DT. Last is McGee. He is a good against the run and pass. 78 tackles, 21 PD, and 4 ints. The ints didnt even come at garbage time. They came when the other team was trying to come back. Those stats were better than Champ Baileys. Not trying to compare, just saying. Than Whitner thing was funny. Didnt make much sense but funny.

[justasportsfan]

It would be nice to have more "Bills" posters that are this smart. you missed the bus.

[feelthepain]

MY mistake.

Your talking about LT who is the best RB every damn year for years now. TO is not that great, that just how I feel, if he didnt have such a big mouth, he wouldnt be so famous. What has TO EVER done thats so fantastic?

I honestly would take Roy Williams or Chad Johnson over EITHER Randy Moss or TO. They are better, younger players. But thats an opinion that the hype mongering media will never agree with.

LT is one of the best RB's ever so I agree with you there.

I would take Marshawn Lynch over probably 80% of the starting RB's in this league.

Heres a list of guys where I like Marshawn better:
Maroney- hes at the plateau on a SB caliper team, he wont get much better if at all and hes an equal in talent to Lynch now who will get better
Grant
Jacobs
Larry Johnson
Kevin Jones
Julius Jones
Michael Turner
Ronnie Brown
Barber- Barber and Lynch are similar, Barber has lots more stats, I think Lynch has better potential
Reggie Bush- there I said it. Reggie may have all world potential, but its still just potential. Lynch has proven hes pretty damn good.
McGahee
Taylor- hes a better RB than Lynch but can never make it through a whole season, I prefer Lynchs durability
Thomas Jones
Edge- at this point

Guys that are right on par with him:
Brian Westbrook- never been a big fan, but you cant argue with his stats
Steven Jackson
Clinton Portis- He can be a top 3 RB but hes up and down year in year out
Joseph Addai- hes borderline on my "Lynch is better than him" only because I think Addai is an average back, but plays on a star offense (and benefits bigtime). Lynch gets it done with our questionable offense of last year.
Peterson- great year, awesome year, but I still think hes injury prone and a few years will tell a different story more like Fred Taylor.

Guys that I think are better than Lynch:
Frank Gore
LT-duhh

Thats my opinion, its based on gut feel, NOT alot of data.


Lynch plays one season in the NFL and you think he's better then all the RB's on that list, gut feeling? No, homer feeling!

[justasportsfan]

Lynch plays one season in the NFL and you think he's better then all the RB's on that list, gut feeling? No, homer feeling!
we *****ed slapped the fins the last 2 years and yet you say the fins were better. Thats a dumb feeling.

[SABURZFAN]

we *****ed slapped the fins the last 2 years and yet you say the fins were better. Thats a dumb feeling.


yeah.... because Miami had better stats than Buffalo but only 1 win compared to Buffalo's 7 wins. kind of reminds me of the Losman arguments. :D: