Bills happy to greet new faces on defense/Chris Ellis is struggling

[Patrick76777]

Like a kid at Christmas, Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Perry Fewell was thrilled with the new toys he received this offseason.

Now he can hardly wait to see if they all work.

“On paper, I like them and non pads I really like them,” Fewell said of free agent additions Marcus Stroud, Spencer Johnson and Kawika Mitchell as well as selections in a defensive-oriented draft led by first-round pick Leodis McKelvin. “But we haven’t played a game yet. We still have to see how everything fits together.”


http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/396357.html

[Mitchy moo]

Kill Brady and any other QB that challenges us, pain.

[Patrick76777]

Kill Brady and any other QB that challenges us, pain.


I like that plan.

[Dujek]

I foresee much pain. And a lot of hurting, bleeding opponents.

Go Bills!

[Pinkerton Security]

Fewell would like to see rookie Chris Ellis emerge as the fourth end, but the third-round draft pick has to show more than he did in the OTAs and minicamp. Johnson’s ability to play end gives the Bills some flexibility. Copeland Bryan and Shaun Nua will fight for the fifth end spot, assuming Buffalo keeps that many.
“We’ve got to poke Chris Ellis a little bit to get him rolling,” Fewell said. “If we can get Chris Ellis rolling, we’ll have what we want depth-wise.”




Chris Ellis?? I dont remember hearing much about his OTA performance, but apparently it was less than stellar. That makes me a little upset, because we need him to step up and provide some 3rd down pass rush in situations.

[bigbub2352]

Ellis is learning hopefully he can at the very least provide the same depth as moron Hargrove, plus OTAs is a hard place for Dline to shine in non contact

I am excited to see our LBers, Mitchell Poz and Crowell will be a tuff tandem to block on every play, and with the beef up in size ala Mitchell and Poz and Crowell maning his same position we should be a hard bunch to handle

[Patrick76777]

Fewell would like to see rookie Chris Ellis emerge as the fourth end, but the third-round draft pick has to show more than he did in the OTAs and minicamp. Johnson’s ability to play end gives the Bills some flexibility. Copeland Bryan and Shaun Nua will fight for the fifth end spot, assuming Buffalo keeps that many.
“We’ve got to poke Chris Ellis a little bit to get him rolling,” Fewell said. “If we can get Chris Ellis rolling, we’ll have what we want depth-wise.”




Chris Ellis?? I dont remember hearing much about his OTA performance, but apparently it was less than stellar. That makes me a little upset, because we need him to step up and provide some 3rd down pass rush in situations.


That would be a huge bummer. A high draft pick like that needs to show up.

[OpIv37]

Interesting thing about the article: No mention of DiGiorgio, but they mentioned Alvin Bowen.

Fewell did say they had 5 LB spots filled- I'm assuming he meant DiGiorgio as the 5th after Mitchell, Poz, Crowell and Ellison (although personally I think DiGi is better than Ellison). It just seems odd that DiGi wasn't mentioned by name in that article considering some of the nobody's who were mentioned by name.

[raphael120]

I didn't like the pick then, and I don't like it now. This on top of the fact that McCargo (who we traded up for) is looking like he's going to be starting behind Kyle Williams...I just really question our scouting department. I'll give it this season...but so far out of 3 drafts we have a lot of questions marks and no definite playmakers. Closest to one is Lynch but the jury is still out on him, really.


Fewell would like to see rookie Chris Ellis emerge as the fourth end, but the third-round draft pick has to show more than he did in the OTAs and minicamp. Johnson’s ability to play end gives the Bills some flexibility. Copeland Bryan and Shaun Nua will fight for the fifth end spot, assuming Buffalo keeps that many.
“We’ve got to poke Chris Ellis a little bit to get him rolling,” Fewell said. “If we can get Chris Ellis rolling, we’ll have what we want depth-wise.”


http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/396357.html

[OpIv37]

already a discussion on this article:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=156484

[THATHURMANATOR]

Calm down.

Training camp hasn't even started yet.

Mcargo looks good, Williams looks good. The same scouting dept picked them both.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Interesting thing about the article: No mention of DiGiorgio, but they mentioned Alvin Bowen.

Fewell did say they had 5 LB spots filled- I'm assuming he meant DiGiorgio as the 5th after Mitchell, Poz, Crowell and Ellison (although personally I think DiGi is better than Ellison). It just seems odd that DiGi wasn't mentioned by name in that article considering some of the nobody's who were mentioned by name.


John DiGiorgio was respectable as Posluszny’s replacement and now becomes a reliable backup.

:oops:

[justasportsfan]

Calm down.

Training camp hasn't even started yet.

.
the pads haven't come on either. Some people that looked great at the OTA's may not look good at camp and vice versa.

Larry NAnce comes to mind.

[DraftBoy]

the pads haven't come on either. Some people that looked great at the OTA's may not look good at camp and vice versa.

Larry NAnce comes to mind.

Martin Nance

[THATHURMANATOR]

Larry Nance was an NBA player.

[justasportsfan]

Dig was a pleasnt surprise coming off the bench. I think he set the bar higher for POZ if it isn't already set it himself .

[justasportsfan]

Martin Nance
OOps

[OpIv37]

whoops, guess I skimmed past it somehow. That's what the find feature is for- I'll use it next time.

[DraftBoy]

Not my scouting report but similar to what I had;

10. Chris Ellis, DE Virginia Tech 6’4”, 263lbs, 4.71-40

Pros:
-Quick twitch athlete
-Plays with leverage against the run
-Able to move down the line
-Good production throughout college career

Cons
- Not versatile
-Might be interested in getting to quarterback and not being a complete end
-Will struggle once matched athletically
-Character a concern
-could have a bum right shoulder

We really feel that Chris is a better college player than he will be as a pro. He was able to use his quickness to his advantage at the college level and was productive as a result. When his skill set is matched at the pro level he will struggle to be a difference maker on the field. Some have looked at him as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme, but he lacks the elite athleticism and versatile skill set to make that switch. If Chris brings his lunch pail to the pro level he stands a chance to make it as a situational pass rusher and perhaps even more. If not, this kid has 3 years and off into the land of NFL obscurity written all over him.

[Pinkerton Security]

i am very happy with our additions this offseason, but it would go a long way on D if we could pressure the QB more. not even the sack numbers but making the qb get rid of the ball quicker will help our developing DB's.

[HHURRICANE]

It's really rare that someone sucks in minis and OTAs and than all of sudden gets good.

The fact that the guy got called out that badly is pretty pathetic.

[bigbub2352]

Josh Reed is phenominal in OTAs and Mini Camp ever year and sucks it up all season goin on 6 of them,

Also it is impossible to gauge a Dlineman with no pads on seriously there is no contact on the Lines at all they accept the blocks and run towards the plays

Did u hear Kelsay, Denney, Schobel Nua, bryants names either?

Exactly cause all they do is practice on there line calls, were they line up and what stunts they run and it is always half speed

I will not pass judgment on a rookie DE form OTAs
wait till TC everyone it is a week away

[Tatonka]

I didn't like the pick then, and I don't like it now.

premature evaluate much?

:oops:

[raphael120]

Josh Reed is phenominal in OTAs and Mini Camp ever year and sucks it up all season goin on 6 of them,

Also it is impossible to gauge a Dlineman with no pads on seriously there is no contact on the Lines at all they accept the blocks and run towards the plays

Did u hear Kelsay, Denney, Schobel Nua, bryants names either?

Exactly cause all they do is practice on there line calls, were they line up and what stunts they run and it is always half speed

I will not pass judgment on a rookie DE form OTAs
wait till TC everyone it is a week away

I would be happy if I didnt hear Ellis' name, that would mean that he's doin OK. But they specifically said his name in this aritcle and how Fewell thinks that Ellis needs some kind of more motivation to play well. Wouldn't you be kinda miffed if you heard that same thing about Schobel or Kelsay? "Yeah, I'd like him to get in the rotation here, I think he needs to be motivated better because we don't like what we see out of him so far"

Seems like it's not anything that involves pads or not, it seems like it involves motivation and effort. If that's the case, pads aint going to make him better.

[HAMMER]

I didn't like the pick then, and I don't like it now. This on top of the fact that McCargo (who we traded up for) is looking like he's going to be starting behind Kyle Williams...I just really question our scouting department. I'll give it this season...but so far out of 3 drafts we have a lot of questions marks and no definite playmakers. Closest to one is Lynch but the jury is still out on him, really.



http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/396357.html

Jury is out on Lynch? How? He had a great season as a rookie. You are an eternal pessimist and obviously hard to please.

[OpIv37]

wait till TC everyone it is a week away

This happens every year.

People complain during OTA's and it's "wait til training camp"
People complain during camp and it's "wait til preseason"
People complain during preseason and it's "wait til the game starts and they're actually game planning."

Then the games start and guess what? All the guys who sucked in OTA's, pre-season and camp still suck.

To be fair to Ellis, it is unfair to judge a rookie who hasn't even had the chance to play in pads yet.

But generally speaking, teams and players don't magically get better as the second weekend in September draws closer, despite the fact that some people on here would like to think that they do.

[raphael120]

premature evaluate much?

:oops:

I didn't like McCargo either, nor Youboty. McCargo's going to be beat out by Kyle freakin' Williams and Youboty will be lucky to make the roster.

And there's no "Oops" unless I'm wrong. So far I've not been proven wrong. I'd like to be proved wrong though...the Bills have a bad record of proving me right though.

[HAMMER]

D-Line players typically do not emerge until their third season in the NFL, same with WR's. Take a deep breath, this is the year that Stroud, Williams, and McCargo make the NFL take notice of our D-Line. I think it is going to be a top five D-Line THIS season.

[Tatonka]

This happens every year.

People complain during OTA's and it's "wait til training camp"
People complain during camp and it's "wait til preseason"
People complain during preseason and it's "wait til the game starts and they're actually game planning."

Then the games start and guess what? All the guys who sucked in OTA's, pre-season and camp still suck.



link?
:dance:

[DraftBoy]

Merged

[raphael120]

This happens every year.

People complain during OTA's and it's "wait til training camp"
People complain during camp and it's "wait til preseason"
People complain during preseason and it's "wait til the game starts and they're actually game planning."

Then the games start and guess what? All the guys who sucked in OTA's, pre-season and camp still suck.

To be fair to Ellis, it is unfair to judge a rookie who hasn't even had the chance to play in pads yet.

But generally speaking, teams and players don't magically get better as the second weekend in September draws closer, despite the fact that some people on here would like to think that they do.

I hope Ellis works out, don't get me wrong. We need him. We don't have Hargrove anymore and who knows how healthy or good the other players will be. It's just dissapointing to hear negative things when you hear positive things from Hardy mcKelvin, Poz, greer, etc...

I think the Bills need to stick to just trading down and picking all their players in the very late rounds and UDFA's. Jackson is working out much better than Wright, Greer is doing what Youboty SHOULD have. Kyle Williams is penciled in as the starter next to Stroud over McCargo...

[bflojohn]

He is a ROOKIE playing against professional football players for the first time, so ease away from the ledge and resume normal everyday functioning! Maybe, he is a slow learner, since someone here did make the point that they are more concerned with learning the defensive schemes at this juncture. Bruce Smith was spotty in his first year and didn't break out until year two, so give it time people.

[raphael120]

D-Line players typically do not emerge until their third season in the NFL, same with WR's. Take a deep breath, this is the year that Stroud, Williams, and McCargo make the NFL take notice of our D-Line. I think it is going to be a top five D-Line THIS season.

Funny how we'll give our dlinemen 3 years but our QB half a season.

[Tatonka]

I didn't like McCargo either, nor Youboty. McCargo's going to be beat out by Kyle freakin' Williams and Youboty will be lucky to make the roster.

And there's no "Oops" unless I'm wrong. So far I've not been proven wrong. I'd like to be proved wrong though...the Bills have a bad record of proving me right though.

that is awesome how you always knew all the guys who dont play that well were going to be bad way before.. can i get the lotto numbers too?

im sure you didnt like the lynch pick either, but you just dont want to talk about that now.. did you hate the evans pick also? how about edwards?

and the season has not started yet, but i will bet a nut that williams doesnt start over mccargo.. mccargo looked pretty dominant at times last year.. im sure you didnt see those plays because you didnt like the pick then and you dont like it know.. but he was an animal at times.. and i am confident that he will be even better this season. and if williams does start, then williams must be playing is tail off too.

out of all the complaining, really youbody really has sucked.. and deserves the critism.. but mccargo is coming along file.. and to say ellis is a horrible pick after a few days of pads off running around while trying to learn an nfl defense for the first time is just assinine.

[justasportsfan]

And there's no "Oops" unless I'm wrong. So far I've not been proven wrong. I'd like to be proved wrong though...the Bills have a bad record of proving me right though.


You lost a bet to me that you wouldn't honor. So yes, you've been wrong.

[HAMMER]

Funny how we'll give our dlinemen 3 years but our QB half a season.

Uhhhh, no. I have not evaluated Edwards after half a season. I think it takes at minimum 20 games to see what a QB has, as the mental aspect of the position is so demanding. That's why Bills fans saying other QB's like Miami's Beck are busts is so incredibly silly.

[DraftBoy]

that is awesome how you always knew all the guys who dont play that well were going to be bad way before.. can i get the lotto numbers too?

im sure you didnt like the lynch pick either, but you just dont want to talk about that now.. did you hate the evans pick also? how about edwards?

and the season has not started yet, but i will bet a nut that williams doesnt start over mccargo.. mccargo looked pretty dominant at times last year.. im sure you didnt see those plays because you didnt like the pick then and you dont like it know.. but he was an animal at times.. and i am confident that he will be even better this season. and if williams does start, then williams must be playing is tail off too.

out of all the complaining, really youbody really has sucked.. and deserves the critism.. but mccargo is coming along file.. and to say ellis is a horrible pick after a few days of pads off running around while trying to learn an nfl defense for the first time is just assinine.

Dont you think its a little hypocritical to blast a guy for not liking a player who has sucked so far because he hasn't had time, but your defending players that are far from proven themselves? Lynch, Edwards, McCargo, and Williams are not proven commodities in this league.

Honestly I didn't like the Lynch pick last year, I still think it would of been better to have waited till this year to go RB. Edwards I wasn't a fan of either and nothing shown last year gives me any reason to change my opinion there. As for Ellis this year, I liked the pick for what he'll bring which is a 3rd down situational pass rush in a year or two, but I dont expect anything more from him than that or anything this year really. He'll be a depth player his entire career imo, sad we picked him in Round 3.

[TigerJ]

As a fan, I'd love to hear Fewel elaborate a bit on Ellis. It's probably good that he doesn't though. Is it an issue of mental slowness picking up the scheme and the pro game? Is it a lack of effort. That's what it sounds like.I wonder what it will take to get him moving it that's it.

[ublinkwescore]

Larry Nance was an NBA player.

who's jim nance then?

[bigbub2352]

This happens every year.

People complain during OTA's and it's "wait til training camp"
People complain during camp and it's "wait til preseason"
People complain during preseason and it's "wait til the game starts and they're actually game planning."

Then the games start and guess what? All the guys who sucked in OTA's, pre-season and camp still suck.

To be fair to Ellis, it is unfair to judge a rookie who hasn't even had the chance to play in pads yet.

But generally speaking, teams and players don't magically get better as the second weekend in September draws closer, despite the fact that some people on here would like to think that they do.

Over the last 8 seasons i couldnt agree with you more, but to judge a rookie whos head is spininng and not even have pads on is very premature

Just sayin with this particular case we need to wait and see
But you are right about alot of the pracitce heros that have come across us and every other team in the NFL

Gotta wait and see what he does at TC

[DraftBoy]

As a fan, I'd love to hear Fewel elaborate a bit on Ellis. It's probably good that he doesn't though. Is it an issue of mental slowness picking up the scheme and the pro game? Is it a lack of effort. That's what it sounds like.I wonder what it will take to get him moving it that's it.

One the knocks on Ellis out of college was motivation, if thats the case its really not a good sign at all...

[OpIv37]

I hope Ellis works out, don't get me wrong. We need him. We don't have Hargrove anymore and who knows how healthy or good the other players will be. It's just dissapointing to hear negative things when you hear positive things from Hardy mcKelvin, Poz, greer, etc...

I think the Bills need to stick to just trading down and picking all their players in the very late rounds and UDFA's. Jackson is working out much better than Wright, Greer is doing what Youboty SHOULD have. Kyle Williams is penciled in as the starter next to Stroud over McCargo...

I really don't understand the Williams over McCargo thing

After their first year, McCargo was mediocre and Williams was a pleasant surprise- and I was really hard on McCargo.

But last year, McCargo took about 3 steps forward and Williams took a step back. McCargo CLEARLY outplayed Williams last year- and this is coming from someone who was critical of the McCargo pick in the beginning.

If Williams does start next to Stroud, my guess is that it has more to do with gap technique than actual skill. With our DT's, it's a rotation so it's more like hockey than football: being a starter doesn't necessarily make someone better than the player who comes off the bench to replace him.

[ublinkwescore]

I didn't like McCargo either, nor Youboty. McCargo's going to be beat out by Kyle freakin' Williams and Youboty will be lucky to make the roster.

And there's no "Oops" unless I'm wrong. So far I've not been proven wrong. I'd like to be proved wrong though...the Bills have a bad record of proving me right though.

McCargo and Williams play different tackle spots don't they?

And also, McCargo will not be beat out by Williams - DTs like most linemen usually take like 3 years before they really deserve to have their verdict read anyways.

[bigbub2352]

I would be happy if I didnt hear Ellis' name, that would mean that he's doin OK. But they specifically said his name in this aritcle and how Fewell thinks that Ellis needs some kind of more motivation to play well. Wouldn't you be kinda miffed if you heard that same thing about Schobel or Kelsay? "Yeah, I'd like him to get in the rotation here, I think he needs to be motivated better because we don't like what we see out of him so far"

Seems like it's not anything that involves pads or not, it seems like it involves motivation and effort. If that's the case, pads aint going to make him better.

Hoping that is the coaching staffs suttle way of motivating him right before TC and before he has signed his deal, Just gotta be patient for a rookie Dline man very hard position to judge as it is let alone without pads on

[THATHURMANATOR]

Jim Nance is an announcer UB.

[Oaf]

Martin Nance
What happened to that guy?

[OpIv37]

What happened to that guy?

Let's find out- you order a pizza and I'll go to McDonalds.

[DraftBoy]

What happened to that guy?

He made Minnesota's squad

[OpIv37]

He made Minnesota's squad

in that case, you check the party boat and I'll check the basement.

[DraftBoy]

in that case, you check the party boat and I'll check the basement.

No problem! :up:

[Mr. Miyagi]

Chris Ellis is struggling?

On draft day I wanted Dan Connor or Tee Rucker instead. How are those guys doing?

[Goobylal]

I really don't understand the Williams over McCargo thing

After their first year, McCargo was mediocre and Williams was a pleasant surprise- and I was really hard on McCargo.

But last year, McCargo took about 3 steps forward and Williams took a step back. McCargo CLEARLY outplayed Williams last year- and this is coming from someone who was critical of the McCargo pick in the beginning.

If Williams does start next to Stroud, my guess is that it has more to do with gap technique than actual skill. With our DT's, it's a rotation so it's more like hockey than football: being a starter doesn't necessarily make someone better than the player who comes off the bench to replace him.
You nailed it. With the heavy rotation, who is the starter only matters for the guys who have clauses in their contract giving them more money for starting. As for Ellis, not really encouraging news, but it's early still.

[Tatonka]

Chris Ellis is struggling?

On draft day I wanted Dan Connor or Tee Rucker instead. How are those guys doing?

im pretty sure they are both on the pro bowl roster already.

:clump:

[raphael120]

I'll be ticked if Ellis is a bum because there were a hell of a lot of other players available that we couldve used. A couple TE's come to mind.

[PECKERWOOD]

That article confirmed my thought that Kyle Williams is going to see the majority of the snaps this year next to Stroud.

[mysticsoto]

That article confirmed my thought that Kyle Williams is going to see the majority of the snaps this year next to Stroud.

Don't be too sure. I think alot of people are underestimating Spencer Johnson. He might be a bigger factor than people think...

[gr8slayer]

Ellis was a wasted pick.

[Oaf]

Jury is out on Lynch? How? He had a great season as a rookie. You are an eternal pessimist and obviously hard to please.
You know why?
McGahee in 04'.

[Oaf]

Ellis was a wasted pick.
^ = wasted post.

Where are all those Harvey supporters now? I can't imagine the backlash if we used a 1st on a DE instead of a 3rd on a solid prospect.

[coastal]

Not my scouting report but similar to what I had;

10. Chris Ellis, DE Virginia Tech 6’4”, 263lbs, 4.71-40

Pros:
-Quick twitch athlete
-Plays with leverage against the run
-Able to move down the line
-Good production throughout college career

Cons
- Not versatile
-Might be interested in getting to quarterback and not being a complete end
-Will struggle once matched athletically
-Character a concern
-could have a bum right shoulder

We really feel that Chris is a better college player than he will be as a pro. He was able to use his quickness to his advantage at the college level and was productive as a result. When his skill set is matched at the pro level he will struggle to be a difference maker on the field. Some have looked at him as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme, but he lacks the elite athleticism and versatile skill set to make that switch. If Chris brings his lunch pail to the pro level he stands a chance to make it as a situational pass rusher and perhaps even more. If not, this kid has 3 years and off into the land of NFL obscurity written all over him. I've also heard from a very reliable source that he is very thin.

Poor draft choice.

[mysticsoto]

I've also heard from a very reliable source that he is very thin.

Poor draft choice.

Thin as in weight-wise thin? Low 260s is a pretty good weight - especially for DEs in a 4-3...and when you think that with time he'll be able to add muscle weight to his frame, physically, I don't think he'll be lacking.