Sabres offer contract to Nagy

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

Buffalo, Atlanta, and Florida have made offers to winger Ladislav Nagy. Vancouver and Carolina have also shown an interest in Nagy.

http://www.theinsideronpittsburghsports.com/search?q=Ladislav+Nagy

[clumping platelets]

Then ditch Max :nod:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Hmm he has a bunch of talent but doesn't seem to put it all together. Much like Max.....

[bigbub2352]

i hope it is for a two way contract, he is a bum

[THATHURMANATOR]

Honestly I would rather keep Max.

[Nighthawk]

Umm, let's offer another soft player a contract...that makes tons of sense...not!

[RockStar36]

He was really good for me on NHL 08.

[Nighthawk]

He was really good for me on NHL 08.

Nice!

[OpIv37]

and this is why I was so impatient a few weeks ago when the Sabres didn't make any moves in FA.

We still need to improve the team and the FO is finally making an effort, but the only guys left really aren't any better than what we have.

[THATHURMANATOR]

IMO OP they don't need any other forwards. They are very deep there.

[RockStar36]

Unless they are planning on signing someone like Nagy for 3 years and then dumping Max and another forward with a contract up soon?

[OpIv37]

IMO OP they don't need any other forwards. They are very deep there.

Deep in terms of numbers, yes.

Deep in terms of talent, no.

[RockStar36]

You don't think they have good talent at forward?

I think Roy is going to be an even bigger beast this year. What a steal they got with him.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Deep in terms of numbers, yes.

Deep in terms of talent, no.
How do you figure Op.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You don't think they have good talent at forward?

I think Roy is going to be an even bigger beast this year. What a steal they got with him.
Of course he doesn't

The team has a log jam of talented forwards at the NHL and AHL levels.

[OpIv37]

How do you figure Op.

did you see the lines we had the other day? The best one was Vanek- Roy-Stafford.

Stafford did nothing last year, Vanek went through a huge slump. And it only gets worse from there.

Pommers is good, Hecht is solid. I love Gaustad's toughness but he's not a scorer- 3rd liner at best. Kotalik refuses to throw his weight around, Max is a waste. Connolly is good but always injured.

There's just not a lot there.

[RockStar36]

Jeeze, what an outlook on the team that was only a few points out of the playoffs. I had no idea that Drury and Briere were the only players worthwhile. I suppose I'd say with no talent at forward you should just scrap the season and not watch them...oh wait...you don't watch them already.

[bigbub2352]

i think our biggest problem is not so much talent, it is the fact that we will get thrown around again, i was hoping to hang on to Big Bear for that reason only, i think we should have traded someone else maybe MacArther or Connonlly for those picks,

We are soft up front real soft, Kaleta is a punching bag so is Mair, Gaustad is tuff and Peters thats it the rest are small and submissive

[RockStar36]

Kaleta and Mair are punching bags?

[OpIv37]

Jeeze, what an outlook on the team that was only a few points out of the playoffs. I had no idea that Drury and Briere were the only players worthwhile. I suppose I'd say with no talent at forward you should just scrap the season and not watch them...oh wait...you don't watch them already.

they're not the only players worthwhile. But they were the only elite scorers on our roster and we've failed to add any elite scorers since they left. Just because we pay Vanek like he's an elite scorer doesn't make him one.

[OpIv37]

Kaleta and Mair are punching bags?

Kaleta hits hard but he doesn't fight back. It's annoying. And as far as production, he hasn't shown any yet.

Mair is what he is- a tough guy 4th liner. I think he's more than just a big body and he will score from time to time, but he's not going to give consistent production. I'm not dissing him. He plays a role and plays it well. I'm just saying that having Mair doesn't make us "deep" at fwd.

[Dr. Pepper]

did you see the lines we had the other day? The best one was Vanek- Roy-Stafford.

Stafford did nothing last year, Vanek went through a huge slump. And it only gets worse from there.

Pommers is good, Hecht is solid. I love Gaustad's toughness but he's not a scorer- 3rd liner at best. Kotalik refuses to throw his weight around, Max is a waste. Connolly is good but always injured.

There's just not a lot there.

Vanek went through a huge slump and still managed 38 goals. Bad arguement IMO. You're right in that Stafford did nothing last year but hopefully he rebounds. Connolly will have a huge season and will remain healthy, it's a contract year afterall. Max is a waste, but he can't get much worse than last season. Gerbe and Kennedy will be up after a season in the minors. We're fine at forward, it's the #1 pairing of Tallinder and Lydman that scares the :poop: out of me.

[RockStar36]

As long as Rivet plays this season he should be part of the top defensive pairing.

[Dr. Pepper]

As long as Rivet plays this season he should be part of the top defensive pairing.

Him and Spacek should be the top pair for sure, but Ruff has a man crush on the Tallinder/Lydman combo for some reason....

[OpIv37]

Vanek went through a huge slump and still managed 38 goals. Bad arguement IMO. You're right in that Stafford did nothing last year but hopefully he rebounds. Connolly will have a huge season and will remain healthy, it's a contract year afterall. Max is a waste, but he can't get much worse than last season. Gerbe and Kennedy will be up after a season in the minors. We're fine at forward, it's the #1 pairing of Tallinder and Lydman that scares the :poop: out of me.

Did Vanek's 38 goals get us into the playoffs?

Streaky players won't get us anywhere- we need more consistency than what Vanek has offered so far. In 06-07 he started slow then really picked it up after the break. I was hoping that would happen again when he hit a hot streak in February, but then he choked in March when it counted the most. So far, he has yet to show he can perform over a full 82 game season.

Gerbe and Kennedy- well that's great for 09 but what about 08?

I think Tallinder's fine but Lydman plays with his head up his ass. He makes some bonehead plays, especially for someone with as much experience as he has.

[rbochan]

Did Vanek's 38 goals get us into the playoffs?

Streaky players won't get us anywhere- we need more consistency than what Vanek has offered so far. In 06-07 he started slow then really picked it up after the break. I was hoping that would happen again when he hit a hot streak in February, but then he choked in March when it counted the most...

IIRC, he actually took more penalties than he had SOG for the first 3 weeks of March.
:crap:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lydman needs to play smarter.

Vanek only had 36 goals last year.

[BlackMetalNinja]

We should go out and buy Crosby and Malkin...

[OpIv37]

We should go out and buy Crosby and Malkin...

or we could just use the same guys who couldn't win the Cup WITH Drury and Briere and couldn't even make the playoffs without them. That's smart too.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Well there are just so many elite level scorers available out there, I don't understand why we haven't gone out and gotten several of them.

[OpIv37]

Well there are just so many elite level scorers available out there, I don't understand why we haven't gone out and gotten several of them.

Ok, so no one is available.

How does that make the team we have to put on the ice any better? We still have the same guys who couldn't win the Cup with Drury and Briere and couldn't make the playoffs without them.

[THATHURMANATOR]

or we could just use the same guys who couldn't win the Cup WITH Drury and Briere and couldn't even make the playoffs without them. That's smart too.
Malkin and Crosby didn't get the job done either. The Pens management are ******s.

[OpIv37]

Malkin and Crosby didn't get the job done either. The Pens management are ******s.

Correct me if I'm wrong but they got to the Conference Finals. We didn't even make the playoffs. Those guys are young and getting better- they'll be there eventually.

[RockStar36]

I think the Pens are going to drop off this season. Too many other losses to make up for.

[Philagape]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they got to the Conference Finals. We didn't even make the playoffs. Those guys are young and getting better- they'll be there eventually.

Stanley Cup finals.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they got to the Conference Finals. We didn't even make the playoffs. Those guys are young and getting better- they'll be there eventually.
You are wrong they got to the Stanley Cup finals... :ill:

[SpillerThrills]

so, our team is young and gonna get better.... but in OP's eyes we suck because we don't have any vets like Briere and Drury.....

[OpIv37]

so, our team is young and gonna get better.... but in OP's eyes we suck because we don't have any vets like Briere and Drury.....

No, we suck because we didn't make the playoffs. And we didn't add anyone to get better except Rivet and a back up goaltender.

Our team was young from 06-07 going into 07-08. Did we get better? No, we got worse. And several of the young guys who were supposed to improve got worse. Stafford and Vanek come immediately to mind.

This is the same old story as the Bills. "We'll get better because the guys we have will improve." It's not enough- it never has been and it never will be. Trying the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

[THATHURMANATOR]

oh just shut up already..... :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

oh just shut up already..... :rolleyes:

intelligent, well-reasoned reply :rolleyes:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Whats the difference? You don't listen to anything anyways.

[OpIv37]

Whats the difference? You don't listen to anything anyways.

Just because someone else's reasoning isn't as good as mine doesn't mean I'm not listening.

The Sabres' playoff chances this year are ENTIRELY dependent on two things: young guys getting better (which didn't happen last year) and getting a few wins out of a backup goaltender.

I do think that they'll make the playoffs but I highly doubt they'll go anywhere. The talent level just isn't there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Its to the point where I don't even know what the argument is anymore(Bills or Sabres)

Your reasoning is that because the team lost drury and briere they will never win again no matter what, especially because they don't overspend in Free agency, although doing that would doom the franchise in a small market.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I think the biggest reason the young guys didn't get a ton better was because they were all thrust in new roles. Vanek went from being the #3 or 4 option to the main guy. Roy stepped up big time though, and I still see the potential in others to do so. I think they team will be more comfortable this year and won't stumble out of the gates like they did last year.

With Miller hopefully being able to rest a bit more through the season, I see this team making the playoffs. No, I don't think they'll be in the Conference Finals again or anything, but I'm fine with progress and I think they've finally learned from their past mistakes. They're addressing problems while trying to maintain fiscal responsibility, which is all you can really hope for at this point.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Right on Ninja! And to not totally disagree with OP these guys might not get any better. I assume they will though.

[OpIv37]

Its to the point where I don't even know what the argument is anymore(Bills or Sabres)

Your reasoning is that because the team lost drury and briere they will never win again no matter what, especially because they don't overspend in Free agency, although doing that would doom the franchise in a small market.

That's not my reasoning at all.

My reasoning is that until they get guys that are the caliber of Briere and Drury, this team will not win. If they choose to bring the guys up through the system rather than spend in FA, then expect to lose until those guys reach the level Briere and Drury were at. Or, more simply, my argument is that it takes talent to win and we won't do it until we replace the talent we lost. And currently, we don't have that level of talent on the roster.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ok Op to that point. Is it impossible to believe that Roy, Pommenville, Vanek could be at that level this season? Roy is right there with Briere already if you ask me. Pommer has some of the qualities I saw in Drury already. Drury didn't light the world on fire last year either. At 32 or 33 he isn't going to get any better.

[OpIv37]

Ok Op to that point. Is it impossible to believe that Roy, Pommenville, Vanek could be at that level this season? Roy is right there with Briere already if you ask me. Pommer has some of the qualities I saw in Drury already. Drury didn't light the world on fire last year either. At 32 or 33 he isn't going to get any better.

Here's the problem: Let's assume that you're right and Vanek/Roy/Pominville equal Drury and Briere.

Well, who plays the role of Vanek, Roy and Pominville then? They were all on the teams that made the conf finals too. Vanek even had 43 goals during the second trip.

If that is the case and those guys can be the top level talent, then we're in better shape because it means we need to add second tier talent rather than first tier talent. But that second tier talent still has to come from somewhere. Stafford and Paille definitely don't have me convinced. Kaleta is on the way up but it's still too early to tell one way or the other.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Here's the problem: Let's assume that you're right and Vanek/Roy/Pominville equal Drury and Briere.

Well, who plays the role of Vanek, Roy and Pominville then? They were all on the teams that made the conf finals too. Vanek even had 43 goals during the second trip.

If that is the case and those guys can be the top level talent, then we're in better shape because it means we need to add second tier talent rather than first tier talent. But that second tier talent still has to come from somewhere. Stafford and Paille definitely don't have me convinced. Kaleta is on the way up but it's still too early to tell one way or the other.
Stafford, Hecht, and Connolly.

You are living in a dreamworld where teams like Buffalo sign every player to huge contracts and spend over the salary cap.

[OpIv37]

Stafford, Hecht, and Connolly.

You are living in a dreamworld where teams like Buffalo sign every player to huge contracts and spend over the salary cap.

Oh really? How is it that the Rangers signed Drury AND Gomez AND had Jagr on the roster, yet we couldn't manage to keep Drury OR Briere?

I think you are clouding two separate (however related) issues.

1. Is the FO making the right moves?
2. Is this team good enough to win?

When was the last time this organization brought in a premier FA? I'm not saying we can or should sign every guy out there, but sometimes it's necessary to get outside talent.

Eventually, the "FO should have done this or that or the other thing" discussion is moot and it comes down to whether or not this team has the talent to win. Every time someone expresses concern about the team, you immediately go back to the "well we can't sign every FA out there!" argument. And that may be true. But sometimes it's not the point. Whether or not the FO had a legit shot at landing a top FA doesn't make the players we have any better (or worse, for that matter). It becomes about evaluating what we have.

When I see Vanek's contract compared to the other players in the league who are equally or more productive, it makes me sick to my stomach. I know the FO's hand was somewhat forced, but if they had managed the Briere OR the Drury situation better, it would have been irrelevant.

I don't want the team to bring in every FA out there. I want them to pay superstars like superstars (whether they're FA's or developed internally) and pay role players and depth like they're role players and depth. The FO is getting closer to that with some of the recent re-signings, but they're not there yet.

As far as the specific guys you mentioned, Stafford actually got WORSE last year compared to the year before and Connolly would be great if he can stay healthy, but so far he hasn't. I think Hecht is the most underrated player on the team and most people don't realize how much he contributes.

[SpillerThrills]

the only problem I have with your statement earlier about Pitt is that you said they are young and going to get better..... but the Sabres are young and gonna suck because we don't have someone like Drury or Briere. my question is, who does Pitt have leading that team??? Crosby, Malkin, Fleury.... all YOUNG guys. we have Roy, Pominville, Miller.... again all YOUNG guys. I just don't understand your reasoning. I could understand if Pitt had a guy like Jagr, Drury, Briere, Gomez, ect....... but they don't, sure they have Satan and Sykora but they aren't the "leaders" of that team.... the young guys are.....

[Ebenezer]

did you see the lines we had the other day? The best one was Vanek- Roy-Stafford.

Stafford did nothing last year, Vanek went through a huge slump. And it only gets worse from there.

Pommers is good, Hecht is solid. I love Gaustad's toughness but he's not a scorer- 3rd liner at best. Kotalik refuses to throw his weight around, Max is a waste. Connolly is good but always injured.

There's just not a lot there.


And the minute Pommers has a huge slump, Hecht does nothing for a year and Gaustad doesn't check anybody for two games you will start *****ing about them. Gretzky never hit a fly. Stop pointing out the obvious about Max and Connolly - you going to buy them out and have dead cap? Put the keyboard down and get some air.

[Ebenezer]

As far as the specific guys you mentioned, Stafford actually got WORSE last year compared to the year before

yup, they should cut all players that have a bad year. Philly should chuck DB and his -22 right now...and by your definition the Sabres shouldn't pick him up. Samething for CD - only had 58 points last year and was a -3. The Rangers better throw him under the bus now. And before you say "yeah, but they paid Vanek $10 mil last season" please remember that this is the NHL. You have to use average per year. DB is getting $6.5mil. CD $7mil. Vanek $7.14 mil. not much difference between production and pay there.

[OpIv37]

the only problem I have with your statement earlier about Pitt is that you said they are young and going to get better..... but the Sabres are young and gonna suck because we don't have someone like Drury or Briere. my question is, who does Pitt have leading that team??? Crosby, Malkin, Fleury.... all YOUNG guys. we have Roy, Pominville, Miller.... again all YOUNG guys. I just don't understand your reasoning. I could understand if Pitt had a guy like Jagr, Drury, Briere, Gomez, ect....... but they don't, sure they have Satan and Sykora but they aren't the "leaders" of that team.... the young guys are.....

All young guys who aren't as talented as Pitt's young guys. Can they get better? Sure. Will they improve enough to challenge teams like NJ, Ottawa, NYR, even Pitt or up and comers like Washington or Philly? I doubt it (well, Ottawa's on the verge of collapse but that's another story).

[OpIv37]

yup, they should cut all players that have a bad year. Philly should chuck DB and his -22 right now...and by your definition the Sabres shouldn't pick him up. Samething for CD - only had 58 points last year and was a -3. The Rangers better throw him under the bus now. And before you say "yeah, but they paid Vanek $10 mil last season" please remember that this is the NHL. You have to use average per year. DB is getting $6.5mil. CD $7mil. Vanek $7.14 mil. not much difference between production and pay there.

I never said they should cut him. You're putting words in my mouth.

What I said is that they should replace guys like that if they can, and if they can't then don't expect to win. BTW, TERRIBLE examples. DB and CD have YEARS of being productive- if they have an off year, it's a good chance that it's an anomaly. Stafford has been in the league for less than 2 years and one of them was an off year. You do the math.

[Ebenezer]

All young guys who aren't as talented as Pitt's young guys. Can they get better? Sure. Will they improve enough to challenge teams like NJ, Ottawa, NYR, even Pitt or up and comers like Washington or Philly? I doubt it (well, Ottawa's on the verge of collapse but that's another story).
well then, working on your philosophy we should cut everybody, hire a bunch of drunks and suck like hell so we pick first the next couple of years..then we will have Taveras and a couple of other studs and rule the hockey world. :rolleyes:

[Ebenezer]

I never said they should cut him. You're putting words in my mouth.

What I said is that they should replace guys like that if they can, and if they can't then don't expect to win.


they "should not cut him" but they "should replace guys like that"...yeah, that computes. Of course that leaves a trade but who wants somebody Op thinks is garbage?

[OpIv37]

they "should not cut him" but they "should replace guys like that"...yeah, that computes. Of course that leaves a trade but who wants somebody Op thinks is garbage?

It's quite simple really.

I never think we should cut guys without replacing them with someone better. If there's no replacement, cutting is just stupid.

[Ebenezer]

It's quite simple really.

I never think we should cut guys without replacing them with someone better. If there's no replacement, cutting is just stupid.
does Dora just walk away from you when you are arguing? you make little sense and the circular :bs: is just frustrating.

[OpIv37]

does Dora just walk away from you when you are arguing? you make little sense and the circular :bs: is just frustrating.

There's no circular logic going on. I'm talking about upgrading players. You never said anything about upgrading or replacing- you just said "cut".

What purpose does cutting a player serve if you don't have someone who's equal or better?

[Ebenezer]

There's no circular logic going on. I'm talking about upgrading players. You never said anything about upgrading or replacing- you just said "cut".

What purpose does cutting a player serve if you don't have someone who's equal or better?
you rip into Stafford for a sophomore slump...Vanek went through a slump...etc. etc. So, if you never said cut them you just want to *****...the defense rests.

Three teams scored more goals than the Sabres last year. Two of them won their respective conferences. One of them didn't make it to the Cup. Your venom needs to be redirected...The offense was fine. Look to the defense that was troubled by injury, Teppo being out all year and a miserable performance after January (especially after Campbell was traded) and a failed venture at backup goalie. In fact, I'll say that if T-bo played up to the level that most everybody thought he could the team makes the playoffs - they only missed by 4 points.

[OpIv37]

you rip into Stafford for a sophomore slump...Vanek went through a slump...etc. etc. So, if you never said cut them you just want to *****...the defense rests.

Three teams scored more goals than the Sabres last year. Two of them won their respective conferences. One of them didn't make it to the Cup. Your venom needs to be redirected...The offense was fine. Look to the defense that was troubled by injury, Teppo being out all year and a miserable performance after January (especially after Campbell was traded) and a failed venture at backup goalie. In fact, I'll say that if T-bo played up to the level that most everybody thought he could the team makes the playoffs - they only missed by 4 points.

and we added exactly 2 players to that D, and one's a back up goalie who will probably only play in 25% of the games.

They were 3rd in scoring? So what? That still wasn't good enough to make the playoffs with this team. They're going to have to score more for this team to win games because the D is what it is.

I just want to *****? Yes and no. I'm trying to make the point that this team isn't good enough. Guys like Vanek and Stafford have been ineffective for roughly half of their NHL careers. That's not a reason to *****? That's not a reason to be concerned that this team doesn't have the talent to win? Yeah, we could cut them, but then who would we replace them with? We'd have to bring up someone from the farm system who isn't ready yet and may not even be as good. That makes us worse, not better.

[Ebenezer]

and we added exactly 2 players to that D, and one's a back up goalie who will probably only play in 25% of the games.

They were 3rd in scoring? So what? That still wasn't good enough to make the playoffs with this team. They're going to have to score more for this team to win games because the D is what it is.

I just want to *****? Yes and no. I'm trying to make the point that this team isn't good enough. Guys like Vanek and Stafford have been ineffective for roughly half of their NHL careers. That's not a reason to *****? That's not a reason to be concerned that this team doesn't have the talent to win? Yeah, we could cut them, but then who would we replace them with? We'd have to bring up someone from the farm system who isn't ready yet and may not even be as good. That makes us worse, not better.
1. 29 teams were not good enough last year.

2. Stafford and Vanek are third and fourth year players...please stop judging their careers as failures (sucking half the time would be a 50 and would be failing).

3. I never said to replce Stafford and Vanek. If the Sabres had your attitude they would never had resigned Roy or given Pommers a second chance.

[OpIv37]

1. 29 teams were not good enough last year.

2. Stafford and Vanek are third and fourth year players...please stop judging their careers as failures (sucking half the time would be a 50 and would be failing).

3. I never said to replce Stafford and Vanek. If the Sabres had your attitude they would never had resigned Roy or given Pommers a second chance.

1. 29 teams weren't good enough but at least 16 were better than us. We have to do better than that.

2. At this point in their careers, I would rate them as failures, especially Stafford. Granted, their careers aren't over yet so it's too soon to judge completely. However, if their careers ended today, no one would even remember Stafford in 2 years and Sabres fans would talk about what might have been with Vanek but no one outside of Buffalo would remember him in 2 years either.

3. As usual you're mischaracterizing what I say. You have to give players chances to develop, but you can't develop the ENTIRE team at once and at some point more talent is necessary.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wow Vanek has had consecutive seasons of 43 and 36 goals and he is a failure????

Stafford barely had any seasoning in the minors before was brought up....

[OpIv37]

Wow Vanek has had consecutive seasons of 43 and 36 goals and he is a failure????

Stafford barely had any seasoning in the minors before was brought up....

He's a failure because he's inconsistent. Look at his 06-07 stats before the all star break. Take out February and look at his 07-08 stats. He has yet to put together a full season.

Also, look at his salary. Someone making that much money needs to lead the team- instead, he lets the rest of the team either prop him up or bring him down.

[rbochan]

All young guys who aren't as talented as Pitt's young guys. Can they get better? Sure. Will they improve enough to challenge teams like NJ, Ottawa, NYR, even Pitt or up and comers like Washington or Philly? I doubt it (well, Ottawa's on the verge of collapse but that's another story).

I think there's a factor here you may not be considering...

Those "young players" have never NOT made it to the playoffs. They pretty much expected to be this last season, simply because they always had gone there before. Hopefully that might be a bit of a wake up call to them so they start to step up, rather than step aside.

Perhaps I'm being a bit naive or too optimistic, but this is my team, I want them to do it.

:gosabres:

[OpIv37]

I think there's a factor here you may not be considering...

Those "young players" have never NOT made it to the playoffs. They pretty much expected to be this last season, simply because they always had gone there before. Hopefully that might be a bit of a wake up call to them so they start to step up, rather than step aside.

Perhaps I'm being a bit naive or too optimistic, but this is my team, I want them to do it.

:gosabres:

what are you talking about?

Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Stafford and I think Paille were all part of the team that went to the conf finals. Some of the young guys haven't had the playoff experience but a lot of the young guys were there for one if not both of the deep playoff runs.

[BlackMetalNinja]

what are you talking about?

Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Stafford and I think Paille were all part of the team that went to the conf finals. Some of the young guys haven't had the playoff experience but a lot of the young guys were there for one if not both of the deep playoff runs.

Come on now Op... learn to read. He said they've never NOT been to the playoffs until year. I believe he is implying that they may have coasted a bit expecting to make it and that perhaps this year they'll realize that doesn't work at all.

[OpIv37]

Come on now Op... learn to read. He said they've never NOT been to the playoffs until year. I believe he is implying that they may have coasted a bit expecting to make it and that perhaps this year they'll realize that doesn't work at all.

fair enough- I misread it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He's a failure because he's inconsistent. Look at his 06-07 stats before the all star break. Take out February and look at his 07-08 stats. He has yet to put together a full season.

.
Wow. I dont even understand this. He scores goals and puts in a solid effort every night. Define inconsistent.

[SpillerThrills]

being third in scoring does mean alot, it means we can find the back of the net.... the problem last year was keeping it out of our own net.... with a capable backup goalie in Lalime, Miller will be able to get some rest and be more focused come crunch time.....

[OpIv37]

Wow. I dont even understand this. He scores goals and puts in a solid effort every night. Define inconsistent.

Going huge stretches of the season without a goal. Missing several consecutive chances at open nets from point blank range.

Again, go back and look at Vanek's 06-07 stats from before the break. Look at his February 08 stats vs March 08 stats. Sometimes he shows up, sometimes he doesn't , and it's largely due to the effort the rest of the team puts forth. If the rest of the team shows up, he does well. If the rest of the team is having an off-night, he doesn't have the ability to take the game over and make something happen himself.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The guy puts in a hardworking effort every night. If he loafed around the ICE I could see your point. At least he puts himself in the right spots.

[Crisis]

how can you tell someone's effort by reading a stat line?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly! I watched every single sabres game last season. The guy tries every night.

[hydro]

Exactly! I watched every single sabres game last season. The guy tries every night.
He gets pounded in front of the net constantly while trying to deflect a 80+ mph puck coming at him. The guy has gorges of talent while playing in front of the goalie. Not to mention you will see him consistently race down the ice on opponents breakaways breaking up goal scoring opportunities.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Exactly! I watched every single sabres game last season. The guy tries every night.

That's where you're ahead of the game... We're being told about how these guys play by somebody that watches ~10 games a season. I'm sure you can see his effort pretty clearly via online radio broadcasts and stat lines too though :idunno:

[OpIv37]

The guy puts in a hardworking effort every night. If he loafed around the ICE I could see your point. At least he puts himself in the right spots.

getting to the right spots is only half the battle.

The other half is putting the puck IN the net. And Vanek doesn't do it consistently.

Consistent effort is not the same as consistent results. Consistent results wins games.

[OpIv37]

what the hell is this anyway? A 3rd grade report card? Tee ball?

Since when do we rank people on effort rather than results?

[hydro]

what the hell is this anyway? A 3rd grade report card? Tee ball?

Since when do we rank people on effort rather than results?
You said he takes game off and we didn't agree. I watched 50+ games last year and he hardly ever takes games off. Now every now and a again players have bad days.

Overall he puts in the effort even though that doesn't always translates into goals while coming out with 64 pts (36 G) and a -5 (+/-). That isn't bad for a player that was thrown into a new role as our "star" player along with the fact he has to deal with constant harassment about his contract that was not his fault. If he doesn't improve upon these numbers next season in the same role you will be right in critiquing his impact on our team.

[Ebenezer]

You said he takes game off and we didn't agree. I watched 50+ games last year and he hardly ever takes games off. Now every now and a again players have bad days.

Overall he puts in the effort even though that doesn't always translates into goals while coming out with 64 pts (36 G) and a -5 (+/-). That isn't bad for a player that was thrown into a new role as our "star" player along with the fact he has to deal with constant harassment about his contract that was not his fault. If he doesn't improve upon these numbers next season in the same role you will be right in critiquing his impact on our team.
and add in the fact that he went from the third line to being star...facing the checking line every night...

[OpIv37]

You said he takes game off and we didn't agree. I watched 50+ games last year and he hardly ever takes games off. Now every now and a again players have bad days.

Overall he puts in the effort even though that doesn't always translates into goals while coming out with 64 pts (36 G) and a -5 (+/-). That isn't bad for a player that was thrown into a new role as our "star" player along with the fact he has to deal with constant harassment about his contract that was not his fault. If he doesn't improve upon these numbers next season in the same role you will be right in critiquing his impact on our team.

No, I never said he took games off. I said he wasn't consistent. I was talking about results, not effort.

[User Manuel]

On another note....

Ladislav Nagy would be a great risk/reward pickup. He is coming back from a neck injury, somewhat similar to what Gary roberts went through. He is very talented and owuld be a steal if he can still bring it.

As with anything, it depends on the contract. I would offer him 1/2.5m with a club option for the next year at the same or slightly higher.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah did Nagy chose a team yet?