SO let me get this straight..

[patmoran2006]

I don't know the exact number, but I'm going to venture to say that we're somewhere in the ballpark (help me out, clump?) of say.. umm $30 million or so UNDER the Cash-to-Cap.

Yet we go into camp tommorow with no extensions for our two biggest FA's to be in 2009; Lee Evans and Angelo Crowell. And to boot the guy on the team that is far and away its best and most valuable player, Jason Peters is likely to hold-out, possibly long term because he overperformed the living hell out of his most recent deal and is arguably one of the three best OT's in the NFL.

None of these guys get taken care. yet Kyle Williams gets an extension?
LOL.. wtf man.. I didn't expect all three to walk into day one of camp with chunky extensions/raises.. But NONE of them??

All Kidding Aside.. Why are none of these guys taken care of.. I've never been a team cap or economic guru, but its my understanding that Buffalo is getting a ton more cash revenue via the Toronto deal? If so, and add up our current cap room; what in the bloody blue hell are we waiting for?!?!

[OpIv37]

and you wonder why people were so happy that this FO did something they were SUPPOSED to do and got a 2nd rounder signed in time for camp?

It's because they pull crap like this and no one has any confidence in them to get the basics right.

[Philagape]

Let's take up a collection ..... pass the hat.

[OpIv37]

Let's take up a collection ..... pass the hat.

they already passed it- over 54,000 people threw in.

[Devin]

I don't know the exact number, but I'm going to venture to say that we're somewhere in the ballpark (help me out, clump?) of say.. umm $30 million or so UNDER the Cash-to-Cap.

Yet we go into camp tommorow with no extensions for our two biggest FA's to be in 2009; Lee Evans and Angelo Crowell. And to boot the guy on the team that is far and away its best and most valuable player, Jason Peters is likely to hold-out, possibly long term because he overperformed the living hell out of his most recent deal and is arguably one of the three best OT's in the NFL.

None of these guys get taken care. yet Kyle Williams gets an extension?
LOL.. wtf man.. I didn't expect all three to walk into day one of camp with chunky extensions/raises.. But NONE of them??

All Kidding Aside.. Why are none of these guys taken care of.. I've never been a team cap or economic guru, but its my understanding that Buffalo is getting a ton more cash revenue via the Toronto deal? If so, and add up our current cap room; what in the bloody blue hell are we waiting for?!?!

:bf1:

[Dr. Lecter]

For one, as been discussed a few times here, all deals are not easy to do right now with the CAB expiring.

Somebody like Williams or Butler are generally easier to do due to the amount involved. Since there is time to get the extensions done, I am not sure this is a big cause for concern.

Besides, didn't just say a few days ago that Evans will sign before the season starts?

[PromoTheRobot]

Gee Pat, you are so freakin' smart. Why aren't you running the Bills? It's not that Evans is holding off on a deal so he can measure the market. It's cheapo Ralph. Same with Peters. All we have to do is pull the armored car up to their houses and problem solved.

We can always count on Pat to find the turd in the clover field.

PTR

[OpIv37]

For one, as been discussed a few times here, all deals are not easy to do right now with the CAB expiring.

Somebody like Williams or Butler are generally easier to do due to the amount involved. Since there is time to get the extensions done, I am not sure this is a big cause for concern.

Besides, didn't just say a few days ago that Evans will sign before the season starts?

there's no time left for Peters. Camp starts tomorrow.

Oh, wait, I forgot. People on this board don't think the players need practice. Guess we still have 6 weeks.

[Dr. Lecter]

there's no time left for Peters. Camp starts tomorrow.

Oh, wait, I forgot. People on this board don't think the players need practice. Guess we still have 6 weeks.

Yeah, I think players don't need to practice. You got me.

So the Bills need to establish a precedent that if a player threatens to sit out, they will give them whatever the player wants?

Peters should get more money. I have no problem with that. What would be nice, would be to see him come into camp and work with the team while getting a new deal. The Bills gave him a deal that, at the time, was over paying him. Now he is under paid.

But again, we must always blame the FO for everything, right? None of the responsibility ever rests with the player, does it?

It is not a one way street and if you look at the Bears situation you would see and understand why teams can't let the inmates run the asylum.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, I think players don't need to practice. You got me.

So the Bills need to establish a precedent that if a player threatens to sit out, they will give them whatever the player wants?

Peters should get more money. I have no problem with that. What would be nice, would be to see him come into camp and work with the team while getting a new deal. The Bills gave him a deal that, at the time, was over paying him. Now he is under paid.

But again, we must always blame the FO for everything, right? None of the responsibility ever rests with the player, does it?

It is not a one way street and if you look at the Bears situation you would see and understand why teams can't let the inmates run the asylum.

this isn't just A player. It's a Pro Bowl left tackle. It's one of the hardest position to staff and Peters is severely underpaid. Yeah, he signed the contract and he should honor it, in some ideal world. But in the real world, most of us have the right to change jobs if we're underpaid. Peters doesn't. He's stuck with the Bills and the Bills need him. He holds all the cards here.

And it's not like the FO just found out about this. He skipped mini camp two months ago. They've had time to work this out and didn't. I know the article said he's not talking, but if they made him an offer that's anywhere close to what he wants, I bet he'd be talking.

As far as the practice thing, I don't recall what you personally said, but I got trashed in here when I criticized Jauron canceling the last OTA and running another "Club Jauron" camp. I'm really sick of people talking about how this team is going to improve through "experience" then defending the coach when the team isn't practicing. It's hypocritical- if you're not in that group- sorry, it was more a general comment than specifically directed at you.

[Dr. Lecter]

As far as the practice thing, I don't recall what you personally said, but I got trashed in here when I criticized Jauron canceling the last OTA and running another "Club Jauron" camp. I'm really sick of people talking about how this team is going to improve through "experience" then defending the coach when the team isn't practicing. It's hypocritical- if you're not in that group- sorry, it was more a general comment than specifically directed at you.

I'll comment on the rest later, but you went ballistic over ONE (count it ONE) OTA. That is why you were trashed. There is a bit of a difference between one practice and not practicing at all.

There is a difference between not practicing and cutting out ONE practice. So say they are "not practicing" is stupid and gross hyperbole.

As matter of fact, the point some tried to make, that he had told the players that they might get the day off if the coaches saw improvement in certain areas was proven to be correct. In fact, he used motiviation as a tool.

[Dr. Lecter]

this isn't just A player. It's a Pro Bowl left tackle. It's one of the hardest position to staff and Peters is severely underpaid. Yeah, he signed the contract and he should honor it, in some ideal world. But in the real world, most of us have the right to change jobs if we're underpaid. Peters doesn't. He's stuck with the Bills and the Bills need him. He holds all the cards here.

And it's not like the FO just found out about this. He skipped mini camp two months ago. They've had time to work this out and didn't. I know the article said he's not talking, but if they made him an offer that's anywhere close to what he wants, I bet he'd be talking. .

I would counter that Peters does not hold all the cards. If he does not report, he will not get credit for playing and leaves 4 million on the table he will never get back. And while he is a Pro Bowl LT, and without a doubt extremely valuable, he still needs to show he can stay healthy during an entire season. And he is underpaid, no doubt. He deserves more. But holding out is BS.

And the FO has known about it. But since niether you or I know what discussions have been held (and if any offers or counter offers have even been made), it is pure speculation with no facts (the same concept you got on mybills about today) that the FO has done nothing.

How can they make a deal if his agent and Peters are not talking?

[Goobylal]

[QUOTE=Dr.Lecter]And while he is a Pro Bowl LT, and without a doubt extremely valuable, he still needs to show he can stay healthy during an entire season./QUOTE]
Peters' only injury was in the second-to-last game of last season. He doesn't need to prove he can stay healthy. Actually he doesn't need to prove anything. He's already proven he's one of the best LT's in the game.

[OpIv37]

I would counter that Peters does not hold all the cards. If he does not report, he will not get credit for playing and leaves 4 million on the table he will never get back. And while he is a Pro Bowl LT, and without a doubt extremely valuable, he still needs to show he can stay healthy during an entire season. And he is underpaid, no doubt. He deserves more. But holding out is BS.

And the FO has known about it. But since niether you or I know what discussions have been held (and if any offers or counter offers have even been made), it is pure speculation with no facts (the same concept you got on mybills about today) that the FO has done nothing.

How can they make a deal if his agent and Peters are not talking?

if the Bills were offering something worth talking about, they'd be talking.

Peters is severely underpaid. Tackles have a short shelf life and typically have all sorts of long term injuries after their playing days are over. It's no big secret that the guy isn't booksmart, so coaching is out of the question. In five years his earning power will be ZERO. I don't really like the way he's approaching it either, but the Bills should still pay him.

[Romes]

Peters is severely underpaid. Tackles have a short shelf life and typically have all sorts of long term injuries after their playing days are over. It's no big secret that the guy isn't booksmart, so coaching is out of the question. In five years his earning power will be ZERO. I don't really like the way he's approaching it either, but the Bills should still pay him.

I fully agree with your last sentence.

One more thing to add, is we really do not know what Peters is asking for. Chances are just as high that Peter's and his agent are asking for some ridiculously high dollar amount that the Bills are low-balling him. I'd like to think that if both sides were reasonable there'd be an agreement by now or he'd atleast be in camp. Problem is since we are not privy to their talks we have no idea who to blame for this.

[OpIv37]

I'll comment on the rest later, but you went ballistic over ONE (count it ONE) OTA. That is why you were trashed. There is a bit of a difference between one practice and not practicing at all.

There is a difference between not practicing and cutting out ONE practice. So say they are "not practicing" is stupid and gross hyperbole.

As matter of fact, the point some tried to make, that he had told the players that they might get the day off if the coaches saw improvement in certain areas was proven to be correct. In fact, he used motiviation as a tool.

what everyone who says it's only ONE practice forgets is that the CBA limits the amount of practices the team is allowed to have. And they haven't had ANY practices since then. And they have an easy camp.

Since the O is relying pretty much entirely on "experience" and "cohesiveness" to improve, they damn well better be practicing as much as possible. This team is young and inexperienced and needs all the time on the field they can get.

But hey, let's not practice and let's not add talent and let's still expect to get better. It makes zero sense.

[raphael120]

He's currently the 3rd highest paid olinemen on our team and he is by far the BEST linemen on the team. I'd be pissed if I was him and so should you if you were the best at your job yet 2 people were making more money than you.. The Bills had an idea Peters was good, but they didn't know that he'd be Pro Bowl good...so the Bills are put in a situation that is both good and bad...good because we got a Pro Bowl LT, but bad because he will now command a big chunk of money.

The Bills were stupid last season and overpaid for Kelsey and in turn pissed off Schobel because Kelsey was making more money than him. When you overpay the guys around the Pro Bowlers, youre going to end up ****ing yourself. The Bills got caught in that situation and theyre in it again. But the big difference is, Schobel showed up and was a team player for practice...Peters is being a jackass and not showing up and making a rough situatoin much worse.

Peters is a Pro Bowl player sure...but he proved that in only 1 season...he also is coming off a pretty major groin injury that sidelined him for what..5 weeks? thats a good 1/3 of the season. What happens if he reaggrivates it and we're paying the guy to rehab his crotch for half the season?

I can see why the Bills want to wait and see, considering they were proactive and signed him long term AND the whole injury situation...but I also see Peters side. It's stuff like this where I'm glad I'm not the one calling the shots...but this is the first sticking point for Russ Brandon and I think this will set the tone and attitude of this front office with how this situation is dealt...it's important for Russ to handle things in a positive way because this is his show now and what happens from here on out has his fingerprints all over it.

[tat2dmike77]

Yeah, I think players don't need to practice. You got me.

So the Bills need to establish a precedent that if a player threatens to sit out, they will give them whatever the player wants?

Peters should get more money. I have no problem with that. What would be nice, would be to see him come into camp and work with the team while getting a new deal. The Bills gave him a deal that, at the time, was over paying him. Now he is under paid.

But again, we must always blame the FO for everything, right? None of the responsibility ever rests with the player, does it?

It is not a one way street and if you look at the Bears situation you would see and understand why teams can't let the inmates run the asylum.

Finally someone who sees both sides.

Look over in AZ Boldin who signed a contract at the end of 05 wants a new one and is saying he will not sign a new deal. He is making about 4 mill per year.

I understand the value Peters has to this team. But he needs to get to camp. Let the agent be the bad guy behind closed doors thats what he is there for. He is only hurting himself. What if someone comes in and takes over his position and excells in his absense. Is that scenerio likely? Problly not but you never know and it is a long shot.

I do agree that he deserves a new contract but he does have to prove that he can continue to play at a high level or if he is a one hit wonder. Personally i hate it when players hold out. Thats why they hire agents so they can be the bad guy not the player.

[evol4276]

OH MY GOD this never happened before to anyone ever!

[X-Era]

I don't know the exact number, but I'm going to venture to say that we're somewhere in the ballpark (help me out, clump?) of say.. umm $30 million or so UNDER the Cash-to-Cap.

Yet we go into camp tommorow with no extensions for our two biggest FA's to be in 2009; Lee Evans and Angelo Crowell. And to boot the guy on the team that is far and away its best and most valuable player, Jason Peters is likely to hold-out, possibly long term because he overperformed the living hell out of his most recent deal and is arguably one of the three best OT's in the NFL.

None of these guys get taken care. yet Kyle Williams gets an extension?
LOL.. wtf man.. I didn't expect all three to walk into day one of camp with chunky extensions/raises.. But NONE of them??

All Kidding Aside.. Why are none of these guys taken care of.. I've never been a team cap or economic guru, but its my understanding that Buffalo is getting a ton more cash revenue via the Toronto deal? If so, and add up our current cap room; what in the bloody blue hell are we waiting for?!?!

:clap:

No excuses, pay the frikkin guy or trade him for a boatload (see my post).

[patmoran2006]

I'm not saying (at least not in this post) that the Bills are cheap or uncommitted to winning. I'm also not saying Peters wont report, or he wont eventually get a new deal.

What i'm saying is that if Jason Peters is not on the field, this football team will be worse as a whole. They cannot win without him at left tackle.. If Chambers starts, forget about it. Peters is the most irreplacable guy on this team; in fact it's not even close.

[Patti120]

:movie: [

[OpIv37]

OH MY GOD this never happened before to anyone ever!

patmoran hit the nail on the head:


I'm not saying (at least not in this post) that the Bills are cheap or uncommitted to winning. I'm also not saying Peters wont report, or he wont eventually get a new deal.

What i'm saying is that if Jason Peters is not on the field, this football team will be worse as a whole. They cannot win without him at left tackle.. If Chambers starts, forget about it. Peters is the most irreplacable guy on this team; in fact it's not even close.

Whether it happened before, whether it's Peters' fault or the FO's fault or both, this team is still significantly worse without him on the field.

[mayotm]

patmoran hit the nail on the head:



Whether it happened before, whether it's Peters' fault or the FO's fault or both, this team is still significantly worse without him on the field.No ****! Wake me when Peters still isn't on the field by the third pre-season game. Then I'lll start getting all bent out of shape like the rest of you.

[OpIv37]

No ****! Wake me when Peters still isn't on the field by the third pre-season game. Then I'lll start getting all bent out of shape like the rest of you.

We have a new OC. We have an inexperienced QB. We added no new talent to the O so we're basically depending on "OL cohesiveness" and "experience" to get better. Now, the best player on the OL (arguably the best player on the entire offense) isn't practicing. But hey, why worry? I mean, players and teams can get magically better from one year to the next without even practicing, right?

On top of that, this situation has been going on at least six weeks, since the mini camp. If they didn't get anything done in the last six weeks, what makes you think they will get something done in the next six weeks?

Right now, Peters is not on the field. And that's a very scary prospect.

[mayotm]

We have a new OC. We have an inexperienced QB. We added no new talent to the O so we're basically depending on "OL cohesiveness" and "experience" to get better. Now, the best player on the OL (arguably the best player on the entire offense) isn't practicing. But hey, why worry? I mean, players and teams can get magically better from one year to the next without even practicing, right?

On top of that, this situation has been going on at least six weeks, since the mini camp. If they didn't get anything done in the last six weeks, what makes you think they will get something done in the next six weeks?

Right now, Peters is not on the field. And that's a very scary prospect.Op, you're obviously a guy who cares deeply about the team, so I am. We just see things differently. In my opinion, many people just overreact to everything. In the past couple of months, we've had the Hardy incident and we've had the Lynch incident. In both cases, people (not necessarily saying you) blew things completely out of proportion. People had both players being suspended, cut, etc. However, nothing much really came from either incident. We now have the Peters situation. Obviously, it would be best if Peters was in camp. However, in the big picture, I really don't think him missing a few weeks is really going to matter. I'm 100% confident that something will be worked out and Peters will be at LT come September 7th.

[OpIv37]

Op, you're obviously a guy who cares deeply about the team, so I am. We just see things differently. In my opinion, many people just overreact to everything. In the past couple of months, we've had the Hardy incident and we've had the Lynch incident. In both cases, people (not necessarily saying you) blew things completely out of proportion. People had both players being suspended, cut, etc. However, nothing much really came from either incident. We now have the Peters situation. Obviously, it would be best if Peters was in camp. However, in the big picture, I really don't think him missing a few weeks is really going to matter. I'm 100% confident that something will be worked out and Peters will be at LT come September 7th.

I don't share the same confidence in this FO. Remember how badly we needed a DT last year and they let Darwin Walker slip through their fingers? (granted, it turns out he wouldn't have been much help, but they didn't know that at the time). This team has not re-signed ONE first round draft pick since this playoff drought started, so they really don't have a history of paying top talent.

We have a QB who's developing, but for once, we actually have an OL that can pass block and help him out. Without Peters, that goes straight to hell. Anything that even suggests Peters won't be on the field on game day is an extremely scary prospect. Is it overreacting at this point? Maybe a little because no one knows what will happen. But I can't overstate the importance of having him on the field. This team has no chance without him.

[mayotm]

I don't share the same confidence in this FO. Remember how badly we needed a DT last year and they let Darwin Walker slip through their fingers? (granted, it turns out he wouldn't have been much help, but they didn't know that at the time). This team has not re-signed ONE first round draft pick since this playoff drought started, so they really don't have a history of paying top talent.

We have a QB who's developing, but for once, we actually have an OL that can pass block and help him out. Without Peters, that goes straight to hell. Anything that even suggests Peters won't be on the field on game day is an extremely scary prospect. Is it overreacting at this point? Maybe a little because no one knows what will happen. But I can't overstate the importance of having him on the field. This team has no chance without him.I'm certainly not arguing his importance. He's just not going to miss any regular season time. What's he going to do? Sit out for the next three years?

[mysticsoto]

I have a feeling that they are just waiting to get the draft picks out of the way to then see what they have left and see how they will extend the current players we have. I think people are just too impatient here. The Peters thing isn't a big deal as he knows what he is doing on the line and won't be far behind if he comes in later.

[OpIv37]

I have a feeling that they are just waiting to get the draft picks out of the way to then see what they have left and see how they will extend the current players we have. I think people are just too impatient here. The Peters thing isn't a big deal as he knows what he is doing on the line and won't be far behind if he comes in later.

Yeah, we're being impatient. I mean, why would we want our best player in camp? Why would be frustrated that the FO hasn't dealt with a situation that's at least six weeks old?

The prospect of one of our best players not being on the field is most certainly a big deal.