Peters theory

[OpIv37]

Several people mentioned the "precedent" factor- the Bills don't want to start a precedent of signing guys who have 3 years left on their contract because they hold out.

So, maybe the Bills are going to give him his contract, but they're going to make him sweat it out and fine him for a week or two first. The money may not mean much to Peters, but it may to other players considering the same thing. Basically the Bills don't want to look like they buckled- it's a form of playing hardball.

I'm hoping this is what they're doing and they'll give Peters his contract after they hit him with some fines.

[OpIv37]

btw I don't have any rich friends or inside sources and I'm not a junior journalist. This is pure speculation on my part- nothing more.

[RockStar36]

I applaud the Bills FO for taking this stance with Peters.

[OpIv37]

I applaud the Bills FO for taking this stance with Peters.

Why?

The Bills are trying to get top talent without paying market rate. They want a BMW for the price of a Hyundai.

And if Peters isn't on the field when the games start, this team is significantly worse. Will you still be applauding the front office when Trent Edwards spends the entire game on his back and Marshawn averages 2.9 YPC?

[RockStar36]

Why?

The Bills are trying to get top talent without paying market rate. They want a BMW for the price of a Hyundai.

And if Peters isn't on the field when the games start, this team is significantly worse. Will you still be applauding the front office when Trent Edwards spends the entire game on his back and Marshawn averages 2.9 YPC?

Because...The Bills gave him a chance, they rewarded him with a long term deal, and he is turning around and crying about it after one pro bowl season. He isn't showing up to any OTA's or anything. I hate players that hold out.

So are the Bills just supposed to bend at the will of any player. Maybe Peters should take a lesson from Lee Evans and come to practice and work from that point. I'm sure the Bills would be willing to work with him but why would they want to work with and reward a guy who isn't even going to show up.

And if he wants to sit out the season, so be it. I hope the Bills keep him all three years and his career turns to ****.

[OpIv37]

Because...The Bills gave him a chance, they rewarded him with a long term deal, and he is turning around and crying about it after one pro bowl season. He isn't showing up to any OTA's or anything. I hate players that hold out.

So are the Bills just supposed to bend at the will of any player. Maybe Peters should take a lesson from Lee Evans and come to practice and work from that point. I'm sure the Bills would be willing to work with him but why would they want to work with and reward a guy who isn't even going to show up.

And if he wants to sit out the season, so be it. I hope the Bills keep him all three years and his career turns to ****.

Peters isn't just any player. He's a Pro Bowl left tackle. He's also grossly outperforming his contract. What should he do? Just accept the fact that he's underpaid? How many of us would accept that in our jobs? The Bills can cut Peters at any time with no obligation, but Peters should be expected to just accept being underpaid?

I don't like the holdout either- it's a bad way to approach the situation. But he deserves the pay increase and doesn't have too many other options.

The "slippery slope" argument is a weak one. It's unlikely that the Bills are going to face another situation where a player's contract is about half his market value.

[RockStar36]

Peters isn't just any player. He's a Pro Bowl left tackle. He's also grossly outperforming his contract. What should he do? Just accept the fact that he's underpaid? How many of us would accept that in our jobs? The Bills can cut Peters at any time with no obligation, but Peters should be expected to just accept being underpaid?

I don't like the holdout either- it's a bad way to approach the situation. But he deserves the pay increase and doesn't have too many other options.

The "slippery slope" argument is a weak one. It's unlikely that the Bills are going to face another situation where a player's contract is about half his market value.

I've said from day one that he deserves the pay increase but my opinion has changed about him since the official hold-out. I also thought that he should come in and prove this year that he will be a consistent performer and then work out a deal.

And I don't feel to bad for him and him being underpaid....nobody forced him to sign a long term deal at those terms.

[dannyek71]

Why?

The Bills are trying to get top talent without paying market rate. They want a BMW for the price of a Hyundai.


SO if the Bills sign him to a 8 mill yr deal and he sucks, will he give the money back or play for less? Of course not. It works both ways. He signed a deal. Tough for him.

[OpIv37]

SO if the Bills sign him to a 8 mill yr deal and he sucks, will he give the money back or play for less? Of course not. It works both ways. He signed a deal. Tough for him.

No it doesn't work both ways. Teams can cut players at any time, but players are forced to serve out the contract.

If the Bills sign him to an 8 million a year deal, they're only forced to pay him the guaranteed money in the contract. They can cut him at any time and they won't have to pay the rest of the contract. The teams have all the power in those situations.

[dannyek71]

No it doesn't work both ways. Teams can cut players at any time, but players are forced to serve out the contract.

If the Bills sign him to an 8 million a year deal, they're only forced to pay him the guaranteed money in the contract. They can cut him at any time and they won't have to pay the rest of the contract. The teams have all the power in those situations.

So basically what you are saying is that contracts are useless.

[cocamide]

So basically what you are saying is that contracts are useless.

No, because if he doesn't play he doesn't get paid. So he still has to honor his contract if he'd like to make any money.

[Jan Reimers]

SO if the Bills sign him to a 8 mill yr deal and he sucks, will he give the money back or play for less? Of course not. It works both ways. He signed a deal. Tough for him.
My feelings exactly. Let him sit out the next 3 years of his career.

[justasportsfan]

When he signed he signed as a RT. They moved him to LT and he became a probowler. IMO , it would be fair if the extened his contract to what average LT's are being paid these days with incentives should he make probowl. Peters' mistake is that he should've at least showed up at camp in good faith.

Hell even Urlacher showed up at their OTA's . This isn't just OTA's anymore. It's camp and Peters should've been there. He deserves to get fined.

[trapezeus]

SO if the Bills sign him to a 8 mill yr deal and he sucks, will he give the money back or play for less? Of course not. It works both ways. He signed a deal. Tough for him.

true in the real world, but not true with NFL contracts. if the NFL made guaranteed contracts, you could argue and say that Peters took a calculated risk and lost. now he has to honor the contract. but since the NFL can just cancel the contract, they open the door for this kind of behavior.

In fact if an NHL player pulled this, it would really be annoying because the long term deal they signed will be honored regardless of play.

[OpIv37]

So basically what you are saying is that contracts are useless.

no, I'm saying you're wrong when you say it goes both ways. Once the player has the contract, the team holds all the power. The team can cut the player at any time or fine the player if they don't meet the contract. The player has no choice.

So, in the Peters case, where the player is playing well above the contract, there's really nothing he can do. He's stuck with a contract that he signed for a different position when players were making less money.

[raphael120]

When he signed he signed as a RT. They moved him to LT and he became a probowler..

I think a lot of people don't get that point or forget it. He got a contract based on him being a RT. They switched him to a LT and he turned out to be a Pro Bowl LT. He deserves the money. Peters is stupid for not showing up to camp though because it shows he's not a "team player" as Russ suggests. Right now it's a game of who blinks first because it's a stalemate right now.

[Jan Reimers]

When he signed he signed as a RT. They moved him to LT and he became a probowler. IMO , it would be fair if the extened his contract to what average LT's are being paid these days with incentives should he make probowl. Peters' mistake is that he should've a at least showed up at camp in good faith.

He'll even Urlacher showed up at their OTA's . This isn't just OTA's anymore. It's camp and Peters should've been there. He deserves to get fined.
I think the Bills should say to Peters and his agent, "You are under contract to us for three more years. We gave you a large raise and a contract extension just last year. And you played well and are a key member of our team.

"But At least show us some good faith in return. Come to camp, as required by your contract, and we will discuss your concerns, and the possibility of another new deal. But you need to show the Bills some fundamental fairness by attending camp. Otherwise, we have no basis to even consider negotiating with you."

[Michael82]

I think the Bills should say to Peters and his agent, "You are under contract to us for three more years. We gave you a large raise and a contract extension just last year. And you played well and are a key member of our team.

"But At least show us some good faith in return. Come to camp, as required by your contract, and we will discuss your concerns, and the possibility of another new deal. But you need to show the Bills some fundamental fairness by attending camp. Otherwise, we have no basis to even consider negotiating with you."
That's exactly what I'm looking for. :up:

[justasportsfan]

I think the Bills should say to Peters and his agent, "You are under contract to us for three more years. We gave you a large raise and a contract extension just last year. And you played well and are a key member of our team.

"But At least show us some good faith in return. Come to camp, as required by your contract, and we will discuss your concerns, and the possibility of another new deal. But you need to show the Bills some fundamental fairness by attending camp. Otherwise, we have no basis to even consider negotiating with you."
maybe the agent thinks"what if you get injured if you participate? We won't be able to rengotiate".

[Jan Reimers]

maybe the agent thinks"what if you get injured if you participate? We won't be able to rengotiate".
You're probably right justa. But out of principle, I wouldn't negotiate a new contract with a guy who fails to even recognize his existing one.

[HAMMER]

The Bills have a more pressing contract issue to worry about, extending Lee Evans. There are few receivers that have the hands of Lee Evans, he needs to be the priority. Wait your turn Peters, show good faith, get to camp and I bet as soon as the Evans deal is done the FO would take care of Peters. They should not buckle to this holdout as the precedent would cause problems for this administration for many years. People that say Peters holds the cards are mistaken. I'm sure the Bills realize we are a better team with him on the field but he has three years left on a contract. His career could be over if they wanted to let him rot on the bench, that is leverage folks.

[trapezeus]

i'm repeating myself in a bunch of threads, but it's important to view Peters situation within the context of the NFL. in guaranteed contract sports, he'd be a real jerk. But in the NFL, they asked for this. It inflates the cost of salaries, but the NFL and NFLPA agreed to this. So you can't fault Peters in context of the situation.

I wish he were at camp, but he's got a chance to really hurt himself and then he'll lose the remaining years on his contract. In terms of maximizing his earnings, he's doing the right thing.

This is capitalism in a land of non guaranteed contracts.

[Michael82]

The Bills have a more pressing contract issue to worry about, extending Lee Evans. There are few receivers that have the hands of Lee Evans, he needs to be the priority. Wait your turn Peters, show good faith, get to camp and I bet as soon as the Evans deal is done the FO would take care of Peters. They should not buckle to this holdout as the precedent would cause problems for this administration for many years. People that say Peters holds the cards are mistaken. I'm sure the Bills realize we are a better team with him on the field but he has three years left on a contract. His career could be over if they wanted to let him rot on the bench, that is leverage folks.
Good post, Hammer! Sure I was Peters locked up and in camp, but IMO Lee Evans is more of a priority, especially because he's a FA after the season and doesn't have 3 years left on his deal. :bf1:

[Bulldog]

This whole situation sucks. I think we can all agree on a few things.

A.) Peters is currently underpaid and should get a new contract.

B.) Unless the Bills have told him they will not renegotiate his contract, he's going about this all wrong. Hell, I don't even care if he participates, but at least show up and show some good faith.

C.) The Bills, as an organization, have every right to be pissed and refuse to negotiate until Peters arrives at camp.

Like others have said, the best case scenario is for Peters to show up and let the two sides begin hammering out a new deal.

[yordad]

Why?

The Bills are trying to get top talent without paying market rate. They want a BMW for the price of a Hyundai.

And if Peters isn't on the field when the games start, this team is significantly worse. Will you still be applauding the front office when Trent Edwards spends the entire game on his back and Marshawn averages 2.9 YPC?Well, if you buy a BMW and drive it off the lot, and a year later the price of a BMW goes up, would you go back and pay the dealership more? And, if that BMW breaks down within the warrenty period, would you return it/have it fixed?

And, BTW, the Bills averaged about 2.8 ypc rushing while trying to turn the left corner in '07.

Peters had one up-and-coming season, and one good season pass blocking. He isn't even half way through his contract. The Bills were smart, and proactive looking him up cheap.

Maybe he should have added a pro bowl escalator. He didn't. Now he want the Bills to jump, when he says so.

NTM, extending him now limits our ability to extend Lee and Crowell.

I say the Bills play hard ball back. Fine him $15,000 a day til he is back. He has ZERO leverage, despite the fact his agent is trying to fabricate some.

[OpIv37]

Well, if you buy a BMW and drive it off the lot, and a year later the price of a BMW goes up, would you go back and pay the dealership more? And, if that BMW breaks down within the warrenty period, would you return it/have it fixed?

And, BTW, the Bills averaged about 2.8 ypc rushing while trying to turn the left corner in '07.

Peters had one up-and-coming season, and one good season pass blocking. He isn't even half way through his contract. The Bills were smart, and proactive looking him up cheap.

Maybe he should have added a pro bowl escalator. He didn't. Now he want the Bills to jump, when he says so.

NTM, extending him now limits our ability to extend Lee and Crowell.

I say the Bills play hard ball back. Fine him $15,000 a day til he is back. He has ZERO leverage, despite the fact his agent is trying to fabricate some.

The price of the BMW didn't go up. They always had a BMW but they were only getting charged for a Hyundai.

And we're something like 30 million UNDER "cash to cap" and not even close to the actual salary cap, so there's plenty of room for extending other players.

If you got promoted to a more important position with more responsibilities that took more skill at your job, would you accept the same pay you're making now?

[Michael82]

If you got promoted to a more important position with more responsibilities that took more skill at your job, would you accept the same pay you're making now?

If you didn't, they would most likely fire you, especially if you stayed home and watched TV on your couch. Now, if you asked them nicely for a raise, while you state your case and continue to work your ass off at work...odds are you will get the raise. But if you don't bother showing up, they will fire your ass and they should.

[OpIv37]

If you didn't, they would most likely fire you, especially if you stayed home and watched TV on your couch. Now, if you asked them nicely for a raise, while you state your case and continue to work your ass off at work...odds are you will get the raise. But if you don't bother showing up, they will fire your ass and they should.

and if they fired you or refused to pay you, you could go work somewhere else. If they promoted you on their volition, you've already proven that you deserve the raise- you shouldn't have to come in and do it again. Peters doesn't have the option of working somewhere else because of the contract. He really doesn't have too many options.

[ddaryl]

The Bills made a HUGE mistake extending Peters...

What was the purpose of the extension ? We could of just waited tagged him and gone that route which in hindsight was obvioulsy the better choice.

[HAMMER]

and if they fired you or refused to pay you, you could go work somewhere else. If they promoted you on their volition, you've already proven that you deserve the raise- you shouldn't have to come in and do it again. Peters doesn't have the option of working somewhere else because of the contract. He really doesn't have too many options.

I liked your old job better, you know, the one where you couldn't be on BZ all day posting your constant negative drivel.

[OpIv37]

I liked your old job better, you know, the one where you couldn't be on BZ all day posting your constant negative drivel.

I'm not negative- I'm realistic.

What about that post is negative? It's a fact that the Bills promoted Peters to LT. It's a fact that Peters can't go work for another team because of the contract. There's nothing negative or opinionated in there whatsoever.

You're not even reading my posts- you're just posting based on your prejudiced opinion of me.

[justasportsfan]

I'm not negative- I'm realistic.

.

Obviously thats not the way the majority of the board perceives you.

Maybe you're just misunderstood.

[OpIv37]

In your opinion. Obviously thats not they was the majority of the board percieves you.

Maybe you're just misunderstood.

well that's the problem. It is my opinion, but it's a very well justified one. People just choose to dismiss it as "negative" because they don't want to deal with the fact that an opinion that the Bills will have a mediocre season is realistic.

[justasportsfan]

because they don't want to deal with the fact that an opinion that the Bills will have a mediocre season is realistic.since when does opinions become fact before there are any results?

Part of the problem is that when someone makes a positive opinion you're so quick to blast them and then speak in negative absolutes. Playoffs is also a realistic possibility.

While you have come up with realistic possibilities as to why the bills won't make playoffs, some people have also brought up some realistic possibilities as to why we could make playoffs. You however dissmiss their reasons and only accept your own.

[OpIv37]

since when does opinions become fact before there are any results?

Part of the problem is that when someone makes a positive opinion you're so quick to blast them and then speak in negative absolutes. Playoffs is also a realistic possibility.

While you have come up with realistic possibilities as to why the bills won't make playoffs, some people have also brought up some realistic possibilities as to why we could make playoffs. You however dissmiss their reasons and only accept your own.

I didn't say the opinion was fact.

I said I made a strong case that my opinion is realistic.

I blast the so called "positive" opinions because they are not realistic and I'm simply stating the reasons why they are not realistic. If you want to call that "blasting" go right ahead.

I dismiss the reasons why we could make the playoffs because IMO they are far outweighed by the reasons we won't make the playoffs. All the reasons why we will make the playoffs are based on "supposed to's"- OL's are supposed to gel after 1 year of playing together, Edwards is supposed to get better after 1 year of experience, rookies are supposed to contribute, etc. There's nothing concrete to it.

[HAMMER]

Get a grip Op, nearly all of your posts are negative. My comment wasn't directed at one post.

[OpIv37]

Get a grip Op, nearly all of your posts are negative. My comment wasn't directed at one post.

actually, nearly all my posts are realistic. When reality isn't good, what you call being "negative" is actually acknowledging reality.

But I digress.

If so many of my posts are negative, why did you pick one that wasn't to make your point? And why are you so intent on challenging my tone rather than discussing football? If you disagree, fine, but keep it on topic and stop trying to make it about me.

[patmoran2006]

The Bills have a more pressing contract issue to worry about, extending Lee Evans. There are few receivers that have the hands of Lee Evans, he needs to be the priority. Wait your turn Peters, show good faith, get to camp and I bet as soon as the Evans deal is done the FO would take care of Peters. They should not buckle to this holdout as the precedent would cause problems for this administration for many years. People that say Peters holds the cards are mistaken. I'm sure the Bills realize we are a better team with him on the field but he has three years left on a contract. His career could be over if they wanted to let him rot on the bench, that is leverage folks.
Do YOU think they will sign Evans to an extension and prevent him from hitting FA? What's your prediction?

[justasportsfan]

I didn't say the opinion was fact.

I said I made a strong case that my opinion is realistic.

I blast the so called "positive" opinions because they are not realistic and I'm simply stating the reasons why they are not realistic. If you want to call that "blasting" go right ahead.

I dismiss the reasons why we could make the playoffs because IMO they are far outweighed by the reasons we won't make the playoffs. All the reasons why we will make the playoffs are based on "supposed to's"- OL's are supposed to gel after 1 year of playing together, Edwards is supposed to get better after 1 year of experience, rookies are supposed to contribute, etc. There's nothing concrete to it.
thanks for making my point. Their "suppose to's" are on a positive light and they are realistic since it happens to everyone even the bills.

You only believe your negative suppose to's will happen and in your wortld the only realistic things that are LIKELY to happen.

IN your world, Trent is suppose to have a sophomore slump, etc.etc. In the mean time, those who say he is suppose to improve after one year are wrong. Yesn there have been players on every team that have had sophimore slumps , but there are those that didn't too.

Technically, 06 was JP's 2nd year. He didn't have a slump and neither did Evans.

Next year are you gonna use their 3rd year as " we are gonna suck because Trent and co are gonna have a slump like both JP and Lee did in their 3rd year and Hardy , Leodis ,etc,etc are gonna have their sophomore slump"

[OpIv37]

thanks for making my point. Their "suppose to's" are on a positive light and they are realistic since it happens to everyone even the bills.

You only believe your negative suppose to's will happen and in your wortld the only realistic things that are LIKELY to happen.

IN your world, Trent is suppose to have a sophomore slump, etc.etc. In the mean time, those who say he is suppose to improve after one year are wrong. Yesn there have been players on every team that have had sophimore slumps , but there are those that didn't too.

Technically, 06 was JP's 2nd year. He didn't have a slump and neither did Evans.

Next year are you gonna use their 3rd year as " we are gonna suck because Trent and co are gonna have a slump like both JP and Lee did in their 3rd year and Hardy , Leodis ,etc,etc are gonna have their sophomore slump"

those "supposed to's" sometimes happen and sometimes don't. It would take ALL of them happening for the Bills to make the playoffs, and that's simply not realistic.

And I never said Trent would have a sophomore slump. I actually think Trent will improve- just not nearly enough to take this team to the playoffs because that's not realistic. Everyone who thinks this team can make the playoffs is COUNTING on significant improvement from Trent when it's just as likely that he could have a sophomore slump. That argument depends on a "supposed to" and counts on Trent doing something he has yet to prove he can do.

I'll base next year on what all those guys prove they can do this year and on what (if any) changes we make in the off-season.

[patmoran2006]

Why do people compare your "regular" job to a NFL job?
THey couldnt be more different.

MILLIONS of people dont care what you do at your job and how much you make.

[justasportsfan]

those "supposed to's" sometimes happen and sometimes don't. It would take ALL of them happening for the Bills to make the playoffs, and that's simply not realistic.

And I never said Trent would have a sophomore slump. I actually think Trent will improve- just not nearly enough to take this team to the playoffs because that's not realistic. Everyone who thinks this team can make the playoffs is COUNTING on significant improvement from Trent when it's just as likely that he could have a sophomore slump. That argument depends on a "supposed to" and counts on Trent doing something he has yet to prove he can do.

I'll base next year on what all those guys prove they can do this year and on what (if any) changes we make in the off-season.


Trent doesn't have to have significant improvement to make playoffs . Just better role playing by him and other players, injury free team, improvement in playcalling etc.etc.

This team was a mess last year and we almost made playoffs.

Your negative opinions are also based on supposed to's.

Let me make this easier for you OP. You and I didn't see eye to eye last year . I won both our bets. MY suppose to's became THE REALITY . I was right ,you were wrong. So who was the realistic one between you and I? Answer: The one you accused of being a homer. Me :bravo:

[OpIv37]

Trent doesn't have to have significant improvement to make playoffs . Just better role playing by him and other players, injury free team, improvement in playcalling etc.etc.

This team was a mess last year and we almost made playoffs.

Your negative opinions are also based on supposed to's.

Let me make this easier for you OP. You and I didn't see eye to eye last year . I won both our bets. MY suppose to's became THE REALITY . I was right ,you were wrong.

And what was your W-L record prediction? I predicted 6-10 and was only one game off. Big deal- the run D wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but the OVERALL D was was worse than in '06. The D gave up long drives- just like I said. Losman struggled, just like I said. Our receivers sucked, just like I said. Our DL sucked, just like I said.

Yeah I lost a couple bets, but I wasn't nearly as wrong as you're trying to make it seem. On the overall prediction, I was pretty damn close.

[justasportsfan]

And what was your W-L record prediction? I predicted 6-10 and was only one game off. Big deal- the run D wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but the OVERALL D was was worse than in '06. The D gave up long drives- just like I said. Losman struggled, just like I said. Our receivers sucked, just like I said. Our DL sucked, just like I said..8-8 or 9-7


Yeah I lost a couple bets, but I wasn't nearly as wrong as you're trying to make it seem. On the overall prediction, I was pretty damn close.
8-8 or 9-7

I was also closer than you in 06.

Point is, when it came down to putting your money where your mouth is, I won. I was right.TWICE! ;)

[HAMMER]

Do YOU think they will sign Evans to an extension and prevent him from hitting FA? What's your prediction?

I think they will make the effort and offer him a fair contract. I am not sure he will accept it or go to FA seeking other offers. If it were me I would wait until I hit the market and let the chips fall where they may. I don't think he is enamored with Buffalo. All that being said Buffalo should make their best effort to lock him down as I think he has some of the best hands I have ever seen, to go along with blazing speed.

[trapezeus]

for the people not named Op or Justa, i think whoever said that this is all part of the game is right. Players posture, teams balk, and by season's start everyone's playing.

Peters knows the blocking assignments, has proven to be a quick learner seeing that he's gone from ST to TE to RT to LT. I'm confident he'll pick up what he needs to pick up.

I am a little worried that Peters is having some sort of Eric Moulds dilema and thinks, I'm never going to win anything here, i just want out and get a fair contract to the highest bidder.

If that's not the case, then i think Peters will get a fair raise, the bills will tell him behind the scenes that they didn't like how this was dealt with but that they find him to be a valuable piece of the puzzle.

You see how angry the fans get with his holdout. It just proves Peters is right. He is invaluable. You get a guy who holds out and isn't a key piece, no one cares.