Walker Repping at Left Tackle

[Romes]

WALKER REPPING AT LEFT TACKLE: After getting a couple of reps on the left side in one-on-one pass rush drills last night, Langston Walker is lining up at left tackle in the closed morning walk through.

Kirk Chambers is lining up at right tackle. We'll have more on this story later today.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1


:ill:

[trapezeus]

and the bills stick to their guns. It seems fairly obvious that the bills aren't going to sign Peters until he makes an effort. This is pretty awful news.

[DrGraves]

this isnt good news at all... not at all.

[DrGraves]

GET IN CAMP A S S HO L E!!!!!!!!!!!

[justasportsfan]

it could work.

ow much has Peters lost in fines already? :idunno:

[Pinkerton Security]

:poop:

[OpIv37]

not sure how I feel about this- on one hand, it means Chambers isn't getting the job done at LT. On the other hand, it puts Walker, who's probably the better player, in the more important position.

As far as the Peters situation, definitely not good

[Romes]

it could work.

ow much has Peters lost in fines already? :idunno:

15k per day...5 days by my count...$75,000

[OpIv37]

btw, how's that "OL had a year of playing together so the O will be better" working out? The whole line is reshuffled now.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Peters get to ****ing camp already.... GOD DAMMIT

[justasportsfan]

15k per day...5 days by my count...$75,000

Can he use that as a tax write off?

[Jan Reimers]

The Bills are showing Peters that they are serious about playing without him. I think he'll be in camp in a week or so.

[raphael120]

I can hear all of Bills Nation letting out a big "son of a *****" right now. Including me right now.

Son of a *****

[BidsJr]

I agree, and I like the move. I think this just cranks up the pressure on Peters even more.

[mysticsoto]

btw, how's that "OL had a year of playing together so the O will be better" working out? The whole line is reshuffled now.

The WHOLE (???) line is reshuffled now??? C'mon Op. Don't be a master exaggerator just to try and highlight the negative...

They're trying Walker out at LT just in case. Would you prefer they be unprepared? It doesn't mean he's changing position, but they're giving him reps in case they do need him to. That's called smart thinking and thinking ahead.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Peters isn't smart enough to pull this off. It's his ****ing slimeball agent. Mother****er. :mad:

[Philagape]

btw, how's that "OL had a year of playing together so the O will be better" working out? The whole line is reshuffled now.

If Peters is out, line cohesion is the least of their problems :ill:

[Romes]

Can he use that as a tax write off?

Do the Bills qualify as a charity? :idunno:

[Tatonka]

everyone shat on walker last year when he was signed.. saying he was a terrible player and he has x amount sacks given up in oakland and it was a terrible signing, ect..

then he came in and played great.

who is to say that he wont do it again..

whatever.. **** peters.

[justasportsfan]

Do the Bills qualify as a charity? :idunno:
sometimes. :ill:

[Ickybaluky]

Can he use that as a tax write off?

Perhaps. You can't deduct fines, fees or penalties assessed by the government, but the NFL is not the government. Thus, fines are considered "business expenses".

NFL Fines are tax-deductible as a trade or business expense, because they are considered part of doing business. However, I am not sure a contract holdout can be considered an ordinary expense, in the same manner as getting a fine for a unneccesary hit or uniform infraction. Those would definitely be deductible, but is a holdout considered an ordinary expense? I am sure his tax accountant will argue it is, since they are fairly commonplace, but that isn't definite.

In the long run, it doesn't matter. The fines are chicken feed compared to the stakes he is playing for. Top LT are $10M per year players, and that is what Peters is looking at. The fine money isn't even a consideration. Ultimately, he is important enough that the Bills promise to raise his salary this year and address his contract next offseason. That is what the Pats did with Richard Seymour to get him to camp.

[OpIv37]

The WHOLE (???) line is reshuffled now??? C'mon Op. Don't be a master exaggerator just to try and highlight the negative...

They're trying Walker out at LT just in case. Would you prefer they be unprepared? It doesn't mean he's changing position, but they're giving him reps in case they do need him to. That's called smart thinking and thinking ahead.

Every player except Fowler is now playing next to someone different. That means the whole line is reshuffled.

Oh, sorry. 4/5ths of the line will have to adjust. Happy now?

And anyway, you missed the point. Lecter, Jan Reimers and some others have argued that the OL will be better because this is the first time in a while that we've had the same OL from one season to the next and they will "gel". Well, if Peters doesn't show up, then everyone on the line except Fowler will have to adjust. It throws that whole argument right out the window.

I would prefer that Peters got his ass to camp.

[Ickybaluky]

The Bills are showing Peters that they are serious about playing without him. I think he'll be in camp in a week or so.

Right, moving Walker to LT shows they are serious. Serious enough to weaken themselves at 2 positions on the OL instead of one.

[Michael82]

The Bills are showing Peters that they are serious about playing without him. I think he'll be in camp in a week or so.
I actually love this. It's the Bills telling Peters that we are moving Walker to your spot because you are missing camp, you *******! Get back here and maybe we'll talk. Then again, maybe not. We don't deal with *****s!

[TigerJ]

not sure how I feel about this- on one hand, it means Chambers isn't getting the job done at LT. On the other hand, it puts Walker, who's probably the better player, in the more important position.

As far as the Peters situation, definitely not good
I think it means the Bills know Walker is more athletic than Chambers. Big surprise there? Not! What it really means is the Bills are preparing for life without Peters. They have no intention of caving and negotiating with a player who is not honoring his present contract.

Here's what can happen from here on out:

Best Case Scenario-The Bills send Parker a message (if they haven't already), "Get your player into camp and we'll talk." Parkertakes a hint. Peters joins camp and a deal is is negotiated.

Worst Case Scenario-Eather the Bills never contact Parker, or Parker doesn't listen. He keeps Peters out of camp, Peters hold out the entire year. Eventually the Bills trade his rights to another team. Peters is worth a first round pick because he's al all-pro caliber player who is only a fourth year pro in 2009, and will easily have a ten year career as a starter. However, the Bills might not get that because the Bills will be perceived as having to make a deal, and Peters is going to cost his new club a big paycheck. Hopefully, the Bills will get at least a second for him. Meanwhile, the Bills struggle with blocking all year long and it costs two or three games.

Other scenarios-Peters signs by midseason and is less effective because of time missed. Peters doesn't sign, but a young player emerges as a pretty good left tackle by the second half of the year. Walker turns out to be a good left tackle, and the Bills find a serviceable right tackle, or don't. Add your own.

[Romes]

I can hear all of Bills Nation letting out a big "son of a *****" right now. Including me right now.

Son of a *****

You heard me?

:ontome:

[Patrick76777]

WALKER REPPING AT LEFT TACKLE: After getting a couple of reps on the left side in one-on-one pass rush drills last night, Langston Walker is lining up at left tackle in the closed morning walk through.

Kirk Chambers is lining up at right tackle. We'll have more on this story later today.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3725

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

WALKER REPPING AT LEFT TACKLE: After getting a couple of reps on the left side in one-on-one pass rush drills last night, Langston Walker is lining up at left tackle in the closed morning walk through.

Kirk Chambers is lining up at right tackle. We'll have more on this story later today.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3725

ya this is already being discussed patrick.

[yordad]

btw, how's that "OL had a year of playing together so the O will be better" working out? The whole line is reshuffled now.Lets take it one afternoon practice at a time. Op, when something good happens you go, "whoa, lets wait and see guys, they have done nothing yet". Now a little holdout, a little switching the lineman bluff, and the season is doomed?

To be honest, I still don't think Peters is stupid enough to start missing games, let alone the whole season.

What would he have to gain again?

[raphael120]

I think it means the Bills know Walker is more athletic than Chambers. Big surprise there? Not! What it really means is the Bills are preparing for life without Peters. They have no intention of caving and negotiating with a player who is not honoring his present contract.

Here's what can happen from here on out:

Best Case Scenario-The Bills send Parker a message (if they haven't already), "Get your player into camp and we'll talk." Parkertakes a hint. Peters joins camp and a deal is is negotiated.

Worst Case Scenario-Eather the Bills never contact Parker, or Parker doesn't listen. He keeps Peters out of camp, Peters hold out the entire year. Eventually the Bills trade his rights to another team. Peters is worth a first round pick because he's al all-pro caliber player who is only a fourth year pro in 2009, and will easily have a ten year career as a starter. However, the Bills might not get that because the Bills will be perceived as having to make a deal, and Peters is going to cost his new club a big paycheck. Hopefully, the Bills will get at least a second for him. Meanwhile, the Bills struggle with blocking all year long and it costs two or three games.

Other scenarios-Peters signs by midseason and is less effective because of time missed. Peters doesn't sign, but a young player emerges as a pretty good left tackle by the second half of the year. Walker turns out to be a good left tackle, and the Bills find a serviceable right tackle, or don't. Add your own.

Here's 2 scenarios:

1. We work out a deal with Peters before season starts. There is much rejoicing.

2. We don't work out a deal with Peters at any point in the season, therefore making all of this playoff talk moot because we have a below average oline. Lynch will suffer, Jackson will suffer, Trent will suffer, as will Evans, Hardy, Parrish, etc etc etc....amazing how important the LT position is. Second most important position to the QB position.

[Captain gameboy]

I can't believe that anyone did not see this happening.

But....In due time Peters comes back and we get on to other tragic worries.

[DraftBoy]

Merged

[Mitchy moo]

I actually love this. It's the Bills telling Peters that we are moving Walker to your spot because you are missing camp, you *******! Get back here and maybe we'll talk. Then again, maybe not. We don't deal with *****s!

New arrangements are at hand, get back or lose your job. He cannot sit for 3 years, so he is F-ed.

[Ickybaluky]

Here's what can happen from here on out:

I doubt Eugene Parker is going to cave, no matter the message sent. Parker has been through a ton of holdouts. It doesn't bother him. I guess Peters could get the message and come back, but I doubt that happens.

I see the scenarios like this:

1) The Bills make some arrangement with Peters to make him feel good about coming back. Most likely, they may throw him a little money and promise to re-do his deal next year.

2) The Bills give Peters a completely new contract and he comes back a happy man.

3) The Bills refuse to negotiate and Peters holds out into the season, coming in sometime before week 10 so he earns a full year of NFL eligibility.

I'd be shocked if #3 happens. It doesn't serve Peters or the Bills interest to have him miss games. His missing camp really isn't that big a deal, but if he misses games than both sides lose.

[TigerJ]

I can't believe that anyone did not see this happening.

But....In due time Peters comes back and we get on to other tragic worries.I think every Bills fan knew the present situation was possible even though we hoped it could be avoided.

[Captain gameboy]

I doubt Eugene Parker is going to cave, no matter the message sent. Parker has been through a ton of holdouts. It doesn't bother him. I guess Peters could get the message and come back, but I doubt that happens.

I see the scenarios like this:

1) The Bills make some arrangement with Peters to make him feel good about coming back. Most likely, they may throw him a little money and promise to re-do his deal next year.

2) The Bills give Peters a completely new contract and he comes back a happy man.

3) The Bills refuse to negotiate and Peters holds out into the season, coming in sometime before week 10 so he earns a full year of NFL eligibility.

I'd be shocked if #3 happens. It doesn't serve Peters or the Bills interest to have him miss games. His missing camp really isn't that big a deal, but if he misses games than both sides lose.

This is a simple business issue.

A situation wherein both sides lose is rare. (Your #3).

A situation where one side has little legal leverage and wins is rare. (Your #2).

A situation wherein both sides win, (with a little press posturing), is most likely. (your #1).

There are only two players that, ultimately, have a say in this.

Peters runs his agent, and Ralph runs his front office.

When those two players decide that enough time has passed to clear this up, it will end.

Between now and then, peripheral people, his agent and the Bills GM(s), will be jockeying for status.

[Ickybaluky]

This is a simple business issue.

A situation wherein both sides lose is rare. (Your #3).

A situation where one side has little legal leverage and wins is rare. (Your #2).

A situation wherein both sides win, (with a little press posturing), is most likely. (your #1).

There are only two players that, ultimately, have a say in this.

Peters runs his agent, and Ralph runs his front office.

When those two players decide that enough time has passed to clear this up, it will end.

Between now and then, peripheral people, his agent and the Bills GM(s), will be jockeying for status.

Well put.

[Romes]

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6297


Bills head coach Dick Jauron said it was a possibility and six days into training camp it's become reality as Langston Walker has been moved from right to left tackle with holdout Jason Peters still absent.

Walker lined up on the left side next to guard Derrick Dockery for the first time in a closed Wednesday morning walk through practice.

"I'm over there," said Walker. "I was asked to see if I can be put in that position and I agreed to it. We're going to go and test it out and it's still practice. It's not a game or anything like that, but the coaches are confident, I'm confident and I think the rest of the guys on the team are confident about it."

Walker has played on the left side before saying the last time he did it full time was four years ago when he was still with the Raiders. He even played some left tackle his rookie season of 2002 when he stepped in for an injured Lincoln Kennedy for Oakland and performed admirably.

Right now Walker feels he's in a similar situation to that of his rookie year.

"I'm just basically holding down the spot until Jason Peters' situation gets worked out," he said.

[patmoran2006]

This is a simple business issue.

A situation wherein both sides lose is rare. (Your #3).

A situation where one side has little legal leverage and wins is rare. (Your #2).

A situation wherein both sides win, (with a little press posturing), is most likely. (your #1).

There are only two players that, ultimately, have a say in this.

Peters runs his agent, and Ralph runs his front office.

When those two players decide that enough time has passed to clear this up, it will end.

Between now and then, peripheral people, his agent and the Bills GM(s), will be jockeying for status.
Best post I've seen for ya.. Well said.

[patmoran2006]

everyone shat on walker last year when he was signed.. saying he was a terrible player and he has x amount sacks given up in oakland and it was a terrible signing, ect..

then he came in and played great.

who is to say that he wont do it again..

whatever.. **** peters.
Even if Walker is GREAT at left tackle, which is quite different than right tackle, it still leaves Chambers somewhere starting on the football field. That's detrimental to our team.

**** Peters. **** Ralph.. **** whomever.. Just get something done.

[madness]

I actually love this. It's the Bills telling Peters that we are moving Walker to your spot because you are missing camp, you *******! Get back here and maybe we'll talk. Then again, maybe not. We don't deal with *****s!

It's nice to see they finally put the contingency plan in place. This shows that the Bills are serious about their stance. Only reason Chambers was getting LT reps was to get more experience backing up the position. I'm not concerned about the left side even with Walker over there. The right side, however, just stepped back 3 years.

Peters needs to grow the **** up and get to camp.

[patmoran2006]

you guys are out of your skulls.

yes, of course its vital for Walker to learn LT in case Peters comes back.. But to suggest that Peters can go sit home for the season, is your subconcious mind speaking, just waiting for the annual excuse on why this team doesn't make the post-season.

[patmoran2006]

Right, moving Walker to LT shows they are serious. Serious enough to weaken themselves at 2 positions on the OL instead of one.
Don't bother.. peters not being here will be the Billszone official 2008 excuse for another season of hovering around .500.

[patmoran2006]

It's nice to see they finally put the contingency plan in place. This shows that the Bills are serious about their stance. Only reason Chambers was getting LT reps was to get more experience backing up the position. I'm not concerned about the left side even with Walker over there. The right side, however, just stepped back 3 years.

Peters needs to grow the **** up and get to camp.
You should be concerned. Walker is not as good as Peters, or he'd be playing the left side to begin with.. And chambers sucks regardless of where he plays.

So we're for the moment weaker at both tackle positions.

[DraftBoy]

Pat is right on the money here, moving Walker does not make us better, it may make us worse.

[madness]

Walker should have never been signed according to most people who judge talent by the team they played on.

Walker was one of our most consistent lineman last year and I'm confident he can move to the left side without a huge drop off and I've already addressed what I think about the right side. (Hey Royal. Remember all the blocking you had to do when we had that rookie over there? Guess what?)

There's no questioning Peters talent and that he's better then Walker but I'm going to say what most of you don't want to hear. Peters is over hyped.

He went from a young promising LT to the best in the league overnight? I have no problem saying he's one of the best young LT in game but I don't think he's anywhere close of claiming top LT in the NFL. I just don't see it even if a video game disagrees with me.

Unfortunately he's buying into the hype big time and is ignoring any sound advice he's received. We can't do anything but move on until he shows up. You can get stuck in the past but I'm moving onto the present.

[madness]

Pat is right on the money here, moving Walker does not make us better, it may make us worse.

When anybody claims the role of Mr. Obvious, they're usually right.

[Mitchy moo]

When anybody claims the role of Mr. Obvious, they're usually right.

While not an astute observation, it's a valid one.

[ddaryl]

3) The Bills refuse to negotiate and Peters holds out into the season, coming in sometime before week 10 so he earns a full year of NFL eligibility.

I'd be shocked if #3 happens. It doesn't serve Peters or the Bills interest to have him miss games. His missing camp really isn't that big a deal, but if he misses games than both sides lose.

If this is the direction this is going then you have to figure how much in fines it would cost Peters...

10 weeks into the season with
training camp 14 * 15K = 210K
+ preseason 4 practices a week 4 games 16 * 15K = 230K
4 practices a week 40 * 15K = 600K
+ 10 games = 150K

SO roughly it will cost him 990K in fines.

Peters will miss game check of about 200K per game = 2 million

His fines and missed game checks would mean he doesn't make a dime this year even if he plays the last 6 games.

[ddaryl]

Pat is right on the money here, moving Walker does not make us better, it may make us worse.


file that one under the no chit column


But I wouldn't budge on this one either. I'm fed up with Athletes doing this kind of crap and no matter what it does to our season I support the Bills FO stance here. You want to be paid then you show up and prove your a team player dedicated to the organization 1st.

The Bills took him under their wing and groomed him to be a LT when no other team would draft Peters... They gave him an extension and rewarded him ahead of schedule, and now its time for Peters to take his head out of his ass and get in here and prove his dedication.

[Ickybaluky]

If this is the direction this is going then you have to figure how much in fines it would cost Peters...

10 weeks into the season with
training camp 14 * 15K = 210K
+ preseason 4 practices a week 4 games 16 * 15K = 230K
4 practices a week 40 * 15K = 600K
+ 10 games = 150K

SO roughly it will cost him 990K in fines.

Peters will miss game check of about 200K per game = 2 million

His fines and missed game checks would mean he doesn't make a dime this year even if he plays the last 6 games.

Your math is off.

The fines are only for training camp, he doesn't get fined after the season starts. He will get fined about $500K if he misses camp, and that is where it stops. After that, he is on a reserve list (Did Not Report) and his losses are game checks.

Now, what is he bargaining for? He wants a new deal that pays him like a top tackle. That means $10M per season with over $30M guaranteed. The fines don't seem so bad when you think that is your prize.

If he holds out into the season, he does lose. However, so don't the Bills. They will be without his ability, which is unique. Thus, neither side wants that to happen.

That is why they eventually compromise. He probably won't get the new deal, at least not right away, but he will get something which allows him to claim victory. The Bills will give a little, but they will get the player back (which is what they want).

Some of you act like this is the first time a top player held out. It happens all the time, and they usually end the same way.

[Ickybaluky]

The Bills took him under their wing and groomed him to be a LT when no other team would draft Peters... They gave him an extension and rewarded him ahead of schedule, and now its time for Peters to take his head out of his ass and get in here and prove his dedication.

Dedication? Are you crazy?

Peters is a self-employed sub-contractor that has a contract with the team. He gets paid and plays, just like every other player in the NFL. You are being way too dramatic over what is a simple contract dispute.

[ddaryl]

^^^^^


I figured he be fined for not making practices during the year.. I didn't know that.


I guess we'll suck again, and Peters will be traded. I wouldn't budge on this either. He recieved an extension once, and he needs to prove dedication before he will get extended again.

I just will not side with athletes in this situation. If Peters had one year left on the deal it would be a different story, but even Evans showed up and I would have uspported his holdout do to the fact he would basically have one year left.

[The Jokeman]

file that one under the no chit column


But I wouldn't budge on this one either. I'm fed up with Athletes doing this kind of crap and no matter what it does to our season I support the Bills FO stance here. You want to be paid then you show up and prove your a team player dedicated to the organization 1st.

The Bills took him under their wing and groomed him to be a LT when no other team would draft Peters... They gave him an extension and rewarded him ahead of schedule, and now its time for Peters to take his head out of his ass and get in here and prove his dedication.
The Bills also cut him and he was briefly in camp with the Giants, we should be fortunate that they let him go after so we were lucky to get him back. I'm angry Peters is holding out and rather he in camp and would play under his current contract. Yet that doesn't look like an option so to me we should work something out. Preferably an incentive deal as still have questions about just how good Peters is. As one year does not make a career and I don't want to sink franchise LT in to a player who might be a one year wonder.

[raphael120]

In my opinion, if Chambers is playing ANY spot on the o-line, it's a very bad thing.

[justasportsfan]

Pat is right on the money here, moving Walker does not make us better, it may make us worse.
was he right on the money when he made fun of Walkers signing? He may be right this time but the bills are right in trying something than doing nothing.

[The Jokeman]

was he right on the money when he made fun of Walkers signing? He may be right this time but the bills are right in trying something than doing nothing.
To me it shows that the Bills recognize that Chambers isn't an answer at LT. As others have eluded moving one guy to another position just disrupts things even more. I would much rather keep Walker at RT and try someone else at LT even if they aren't as good as Walker.

[ddaryl]

Dedication? Are you crazy?

Peters is a self-employed sub-contractor that has a contract with the team. He gets paid and plays, just like every other player in the NFL. You are being way too dramatic over what is a simple contract dispute.

You're joking right ???

He signed an extension with guarenteed money. Nobody held a gun to his head, and it was a gamble by both sides. If Peters wanted a bigger pay day then he obviously should have said no to the extension and waited another year.

It's going to suck because we finally had a great LT on the OL, but the Bills are not going to budge on this one and I agree.

If Peters had a year left I support the hold out, but there is 3 left on a very recent extension.

If Peters showed up to OTA's and Training camp it would show dedication to the organization and leadership to the team. Traits worthy of a BIG TIME pay raise

All Peters is doing is demonstrating that he will hold out anytime he feels he is not getting enough money which could very well be every 2nd year.

[justasportsfan]

To me it shows that the Bills recognize that Chambers isn't an answer at LT. As others have eluded moving one guy to another position just disrupts things even more. I would much rather keep Walker at RT and try someone else at LT even if they aren't as good as Walker.


LT is the most improtant position in the OL. It protects the qb's blindside. It's not set in stone that Walker will move there but I am all for finding the player to play that spot.

[madness]

LT is the most improtant position in the OL. It protects the qb's blindside. It's not set in stone that Walker will move there but I am all for finding the player to play that spot.

Move Walker to LT and give him a raise. Tell Peters to report because he's back at RT and should be happy with his RT $.

That would be so cold. :evil:

[dannyek71]

Why is this so bad? Even if we had peters signed, we are an injury away from needing walker at LT anyways. It is good for guys to swap roles every now and then

[justasportsfan]

Move Walker to LT and give him a raise. Tell Peters to report because he's back at RT and should be happy with his RT $.

That would be so cold. :evil:that would be funny but
problem is Walker is already paid more than Peters and he's a RT which is probably why Peters is *****ing to begin with. If you are going to give Walker a riase might as well give it to peters and he'll be happy and a probowl LT.

[OpIv37]

Why is this so bad? Even if we had peters signed, we are an injury away from needing walker at LT anyways. It is good for guys to swap roles every now and then

1. It disrupts the "continuity" on the OL that a lot of people are stating as a reason for offensive improvement (I think it's a faulty argument anyway but this completely invalidates it)
2. It means the Bills are preparing long-term for having Peters out, which is not a good sign. If they expected him back tomorrow or Friday, they wouldn't have bothered with this.
3. It still means that if the season started this weekend, Chambers would be the starter. That's scary.

[Oaf]

Let's plug in the next converted UDFA TE. The reports state Murphy is improving. Is he 2nd team now?

[justasportsfan]

2. It means the Bills are preparing long-term for having Peters out, which is not a good sign. If they expected him back tomorrow or Friday, they wouldn't have bothered with this.
3. It still means that if the season started this weekend, Chambers would be the starter. That's scary.
It could POSSIBLY mean. NO absolutes unless you work for the bills please.

[madness]

that would be funny but
problem is Walker is already paid more than Peters and he's a RT which is probably why Peters is *****ing to begin with. If you are going to give Walker a riase might as well give it to peters and he'll be happy and a probowl LT.

Peters gets his money if he just shows up to camp.

[patmoran2006]

Peters gets his money if he just shows up to camp.
Says who?
Who said that if Peters shows up he gets his raise? I certainly haven't heard that; and if that was true, I highly doubt he wouldn't have been here already.

Bottom line.. WE got the cap room, a TON of cap room. .We got Toronto revenue coming in. And we got the best player on our team radically underpaid. Pay the ****ing guy and be done with it!

Its not like we'd have to cut players and stuff to make cap room for Peters' raise.. Then again, knowing Wilson if we pay Peters, it will follow with 1-2 veterans like Royal and Reed getting cut to recoup some of his pennies.

[justasportsfan]

Walker moved to left tackle

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6297

"I'm over there," said Walker. "I was asked to see if I can be put in that position and I agreed to it. We're going to go and test it out and it's still practice. It's not a game or anything like that, but the coaches are confident, I'm confident and I think the rest of the guys on the team are confident about it."

Walker has played on the left side before saying the last time he did it full time was four years ago when he was still with the Raiders. He even played some left tackle his rookie season of 2002 when he stepped in for an injured Lincoln Kennedy for Oakland and performed admirably.

[John Doe]

Peters is a far better player than Chambers - of that there is not doubt.

However, the "continuity" of the offensive line is not being as disrupted as some posters would have us believe.

Last season, Chambers was the "flip tackle" - he was active on game day to fill in at either the left tackle or right tackle position. He practiced at both positions so he is familiar with the play of both starting guards as they are of him. That part of the continuity from last season is intact and is important to the team this season.

As Dannyek71 stated, it makes sense to have Walker get some reps at left tackle anyway, for the flexibility of the line in general. If Peters comes back, signs, plays, and suffers a severe injury, then Walker would be more prepared to take on the role of left tackle if needed.

[madness]

Says who?
Who said that if Peters shows up he gets his raise? I certainly haven't heard that; and if that was true, I highly doubt he wouldn't have been here already.

Bottom line.. WE got the cap room, a TON of cap room. .We got Toronto revenue coming in. And we got the best player on our team radically underpaid. Pay the ****ing guy and be done with it!

Its not like we'd have to cut players and stuff to make cap room for Peters' raise.. Then again, knowing Wilson if we pay Peters, it will follow with 1-2 veterans like Royal and Reed getting cut to recoup some of his pennies.

Upper management has said numorous times that if he showed up in good faith they'd take care of him and they've also stated recently that they are aware that he is underpaid.

[The Jokeman]

LT is the most improtant position in the OL. It protects the qb's blindside. It's not set in stone that Walker will move there but I am all for finding the player to play that spot.
I understand how important it is, I've been calling for the Bills to draft a LT for years. That said I don't like the idea of having to shift Walker there to do so. As to me that takes away what we already have established on the right side.

If you were to ask me what my perfect plan it would be find a way to get Jonas Jennings back here. As to me he'd be an ideal veteran swing OT that Chambers obviously isn't. As I just read a report that the 49ers are planning to move him back to RT after moving their 1st Round pick Joe Staley to the left side. They also signed veteran Barry Simms to compete with Jonas which may mean he could be cut.

Of course I'm not sure if we'd be able to sign him if he did come available as sure he'd want to go elsewhere to start.

[Captain gameboy]

Jonas Jennings?

The last guy I'd want to see here.

[The Jokeman]

Jonas Jennings?

The last guy I'd want to see here.
Let me clarify, if Peters isn't going to be our LT because of a holdout then Jonas is a guy I would feel comfortable manning the spot instead of any of the aforementioned guys.

[mysticsoto]

Every player except Fowler is now playing next to someone different. That means the whole line is reshuffled.

Oh, sorry. 4/5ths of the line will have to adjust. Happy now?

And anyway, you missed the point. Lecter, Jan Reimers and some others have argued that the OL will be better because this is the first time in a while that we've had the same OL from one season to the next and they will "gel". Well, if Peters doesn't show up, then everyone on the line except Fowler will have to adjust. It throws that whole argument right out the window.

I would prefer that Peters got his ass to camp.

Nice try, Op. No way that explanation flies..."Reshuffled" means that people are moved and playing in different positions. There was just a two player shuffle and we don't know if that would even be a permanent thing...they may have just been trying Walker out at LT to see what he had to offer there. Again, that is not the entire Oline like you are trying to make it seem. Why is it that you always have to play the DiscoPatti of the BZ with over-exaggerating everything? They are experimenting at the tackle just in case - but we don't know what's going to happen yet. For all we know, Peters could show up next week and everything fall back in to place. Rather than being an alarmist like you were last year with JP's slight injury that you cried wolf about, why don't we wait and see if it all works out before going nuts and exaggerating that the Oline is 4/5ths reshuffled...

[PECKERWOOD]

First and foremost I want Jason Peters in camp... However, I do think that Langston Walker could become a decent LT in the NFL. I'm sorry but this guy straight up dominated last year at RT and ST's. Who knows? It would be hilarious if he surplanted JP (Jason Peters) and we put JP back at RT where he first started off at!

[ddaryl]

that would be funny but
problem is Walker is already paid more than Peters and he's a RT which is probably why Peters is *****ing to begin with. If you are going to give Walker a riase might as well give it to peters and he'll be happy and a probowl LT.

This is very much a reason why Peters is holding our... Both Walker and Dockery make more then him...

And I fully agree Peters is underpaid, but the team did extend him without him asking for it, and Peters needs to show up before he has any chance of getting that next extension.

You can also bet the farm that the extension he asks for this time will be loaded with incentive for showing up etc...

[OpIv37]

Nice try, Op. No way that explanation flies..."Reshuffled" means that people are moved and playing in different positions. There was just a two player shuffle and we don't know if that would even be a permanent thing...they may have just been trying Walker out at LT to see what he had to offer there. Again, that is not the entire Oline like you are trying to make it seem. Why is it that you always have to play the DiscoPatti of the BZ with over-exaggerating everything? They are experimenting at the tackle just in case - but we don't know what's going to happen yet. For all we know, Peters could show up next week and everything fall back in to place. Rather than being an alarmist like you were last year with JP's slight injury that you cried wolf about, why don't we wait and see if it all works out before going nuts and exaggerating that the Oline is 4/5ths reshuffled...

2 of 5 is 40%, and 80% of the line is playing next to someone different. That's enough to count as a "reshuffle" in my book. And it's more than enough to disrupt the continuity in the OL that some are citing as a reason for improvement.

Don't even try comparing me to Patti.

Walker-Dock-Fowler-Butler-Chambers isn't even close to Peters-Dock-Fowler-Butler-Walker.

And are you even following the Peters situation at all? The two sides are barely talking. This is not "alarmist" by any stretch of the imagination. It's a very serious situation that could have an adverse impact on a season that already doesn't look very good. I'm not being alarmist- you're being naive.

As far as JP last year, stop and think about that for a second. What happened when JP hit the field last year? What are people saying about Trent benefiting from snaps with the first team O this year? On top of that, we had a rookie 3rd rounder behind JP in Trent last year- turns out Trent is better, but we had no way of knowing that at this time last year. There was PLENTY of reason for concern about JP's injury last year.

[OpIv37]

Peters is a far better player than Chambers - of that there is not doubt.

However, the "continuity" of the offensive line is not being as disrupted as some posters would have us believe.

Last season, Chambers was the "flip tackle" - he was active on game day to fill in at either the left tackle or right tackle position. He practiced at both positions so he is familiar with the play of both starting guards as they are of him. That part of the continuity from last season is intact and is important to the team this season.


Nice spin job. Stay near the phone- Karl Rove is about to call and offer you a job.

Continuity is about the SAME players playing next to each other and knowing each other's strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. Chambers didn't learn any of that on the bench, and none of the other 4 guys learned any of that about Chambers while he was on the bench.

[mysticsoto]

2 of 5 is 40%, and 80% of the line is playing next to someone different. That's enough to count as a "reshuffle" in my book. And it's more than enough to disrupt the continuity in the OL that some are citing as a reason for improvement.

Don't even try comparing me to Patti.

Walker-Dock-Fowler-Butler-Chambers isn't even close to Peters-Dock-Fowler-Butler-Walker.

And are you even following the Peters situation at all? The two sides are barely talking. This is not "alarmist" by any stretch of the imagination. It's a very serious situation that could have an adverse impact on a season that already doesn't look very good. I'm not being alarmist- you're being naive.

As far as JP last year, stop and think about that for a second. What happened when JP hit the field last year? What are people saying about Trent benefiting from snaps with the first team O this year? On top of that, we had a rookie 3rd rounder behind JP in Trent last year- turns out Trent is better, but we had no way of knowing that at this time last year. There was PLENTY of reason for concern about JP's injury last year.

Uh-huh...so Trent benefitted from getting snaps from the 1st team, but Chambers cannot benefit or Walker at LT cannot benefit? Jauron has not made a switch yet for Walker to play LT. He got snaps there, that is it. As such, you are jumping to conclusions in that he will now be playing LT and Chambers RT. For all you know, Chambers may remain at LT for the time being and Walker move back to RT in which case it's only 20% of the line. Yes, I know that not having Peters would be a step down no matter who gets reps and how many, but nevertheless you're still exaggerating the issue to play the alarmist role - extremely similar to Patti.

As it has been pointed out before, nobody gains by Peters sitting throughout the season - this will resolve itself one way or another before that - more than likely the FO will give Peters a carrot and offer to re-evaluate his contract at the end of the season.

But go ahead and continue to play the drama queen...

[Ickybaluky]

Uh-huh...so Trent benefitted from getting snaps from the 1st team, but Chambers cannot benefit or Walker at LT cannot benefit? Jauron has not made a switch yet for Walker to play LT. He got snaps there, that is it. As such, you are jumping to conclusions in that he will now be playing LT and Chambers RT. For all you know, Chambers may remain at LT for the time being and Walker move back to RT in which case it's only 20% of the line. Yes, I know that not having Peters would be a step down no matter who gets reps and how many, but nevertheless you're still exaggerating the issue to play the alarmist role - extremely similar to Patti.

What if Walker or Chambers gets hurt?

[Saratoga Slim]

Nice spin job. Stay near the phone- Karl Rove is about to call and offer you a job.

Continuity is about the SAME players playing next to each other and knowing each other's strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. Chambers didn't learn any of that on the bench, and none of the other 4 guys learned any of that about Chambers while he was on the bench.

Dude - we're talking about a 5 man offensive line that drills as a unit every day. Those guys work out, eat, sleep, and hang together. Just because Walker isn't standing next to Butler anymore doesn't mean he's now working with a total stranger--he knows how the other guys play, what their tendancies are etc.

Clearly it'd be ideal if nobody has to do a position change and do new learning, and everyone can continue to rub the elbows of the nieghbor he's used to. But the MAJOR problem is that Jason Peters isn't here and Chambers is. Chambers is a liability at LT, and it's just plain a better idea to have your liability at RT than at LT. Plus, RT is easier to play--Chambers will have a better chance of holding it together there than at LT.

Peters not here: MAJOR Problem.
Reshuffling: MODERATE or possibly MINOR Problem

Bottom line is this situation sucks, but the OL will be likely be better with Walker at LT, reshuffling notwithstanding, than if we leave it alone and simply sub in Chambers for Peters. This is a good move under the current circumstances.

[OpIv37]

Uh-huh...so Trent benefitted from getting snaps from the 1st team, but Chambers cannot benefit or Walker at LT cannot benefit? Jauron has not made a switch yet for Walker to play LT. He got snaps there, that is it. As such, you are jumping to conclusions in that he will now be playing LT and Chambers RT. For all you know, Chambers may remain at LT for the time being and Walker move back to RT in which case it's only 20% of the line. Yes, I know that not having Peters would be a step down no matter who gets reps and how many, but nevertheless you're still exaggerating the issue to play the alarmist role - extremely similar to Patti.

As it has been pointed out before, nobody gains by Peters sitting throughout the season - this will resolve itself one way or another before that - more than likely the FO will give Peters a carrot and offer to re-evaluate his contract at the end of the season.

But go ahead and continue to play the drama queen...

First, I never said Trent benefitted from first team reps- other people did. I was repeating what they said. Second, Chambers does not have NFL starter level talent- hopefully Trent does.

For all I know? Now you're just making **** up. As of RIGHT NOW, Chambers is RT and Walker is LT. There is absolutely no indication that will happen- you simply pulled **** out of your ass when you had no argument. 40% of the OL MOVING AND 80% PLAYING NEXT TO SOMEONE NEW IS A HUGE CHANGE. IT IS NOT ALARMIST OR LIKE PATTI AT ALL TO BE CONCERNED BY THAT.

And **** you with this ****ing drama queen bull****. THis is a SERIOUS problem for our team. You seem to at least somewhat see how bad this team will suffer without Peters. Are you even READING the articles about the negotiations? They're growing farther apart, not closer together.

You know, every time I bring up a concern about this team, you blow it off. Yet, every year the team's ****ing mediocre on the field. Stop and ****ing think about that one for a second.

[OpIv37]

Dude - we're talking about a 5 man offensive line that drills as a unit every day. Those guys work out, eat, sleep, and hang together. Just because Walker isn't standing next to Butler anymore doesn't mean he's now working with a total stranger--he knows how the other guys play, what their tendancies are etc.

Clearly it'd be ideal if nobody has to do a position change and do new learning, and everyone can continue to rub the elbows of the nieghbor he's used to. But the MAJOR problem is that Jason Peters isn't here and Chambers is. Chambers is a liability at LT, and it's just plain a better idea to have your liability at RT than at LT. Plus, RT is easier to play--Chambers will have a better chance of holding it together there than at LT.

Peters not here: MAJOR Problem.
Reshuffling: MODERATE or possibly MINOR Problem

Bottom line is this situation sucks, but the OL will be likely be better with Walker at LT, reshuffling notwithstanding, than if we leave it alone and simply sub in Chambers for Peters. This is a good move under the current circumstances.

One thing you're forgetting- we did NOTHING to improve the offense. I keep hearing about how this "continuity" on the offensive line is going to make the O so much better. And I don't really think the offensive linemen can really learn each other's tendencies during games without practicing/playing next to each other. At the very least, it's going to take them time to adjust.

Couple that with the liability of Chambers at either LT or RT and the fact that nothing was done to the offense and the fact that we have an inexperienced Qb shellshocked from his college days, and we have a major issue.

[mysticsoto]

What if Walker or Chambers gets hurt?

What if they get hurt? What if Stroud gets hurt? What if Trent gets hurt? What if Hardy or Evans gets hurt? There's nothing you can do about it if someone gets hurt. We had that last year with so many players falling like flies. You just continue on the best you can - nothing else you can pretty much do about it...

[mysticsoto]

First, I never said Trent benefitted from first team reps- other people did. I was repeating what they said. Second, Chambers does not have NFL starter level talent- hopefully Trent does.

For all I know? Now you're just making **** up. As of RIGHT NOW, Chambers is RT and Walker is LT. There is absolutely no indication that will happen- you simply pulled **** out of your ass when you had no argument. 40% of the OL MOVING AND 80% PLAYING NEXT TO SOMEONE NEW IS A HUGE CHANGE. IT IS NOT ALARMIST OR LIKE PATTI AT ALL TO BE CONCERNED BY THAT.

And **** you with this ****ing drama queen bull****. THis is a SERIOUS problem for our team. You seem to at least somewhat see how bad this team will suffer without Peters. Are you even READING the articles about the negotiations? They're growing farther apart, not closer together.

You know, every time I bring up a concern about this team, you blow it off. Yet, every year the team's ****ing mediocre on the field. Stop and ****ing think about that one for a second.

Chambers does not have NFL starting talent? Who made you an NFL coach and/or scout. What is your Oline experience that you personally have to be judging him? See, this is one problem I have with how you view things. In your eyes, players cannot improve. Pat Williams never would have gotten the chance to start if you had been the coach. And thankfully, you are not. Last year you *****ed about DiG playing well and said he was crap and that the FO was blowing smoke up our ass b'cse, as you said, "what else was Marv going to say? That he sucks?" And yet, DiG played outstanding while covering for the injured Poz. You also criticized the FO for picking Trent b'cse...as you said, "He's just going to be a clipboard holder and we don't draft in the 3rd rd for a clip holder!" And yet, he's starting for us right now...

People can improve. I've heard you mention numerous times that the offense is going to be crap b'cse Hardy is a rookie and we pretty much have the same people - therefore we are not going to the playoffs and may not even make 8-8. But no mention about Schouman looking good at TE, us having a real FB, a new OC (which I think it going to be alot bigger than people think) and hopefully, Edwards looking better with another year under his belt. Hardy may not amount to much in his 1st year, but I am confident he'll be better than Reed was at #2 - and that in turn will make the #3 WR better also.

Why do I blow off any concern you bring up for the team. B'cse you overreact to anything and everything. B'cse if a player breaks their nail, you're in here whining about the season being over before it's even began. TC has been open 1 week and your whining didn't waste any time. If this is still the case at the end of August, then you'll have some valid concerns. As of now, though, you're just a drama queen...

[Ickybaluky]

What if they get hurt? What if Stroud gets hurt? What if Trent gets hurt? What if Hardy or Evans gets hurt? There's nothing you can do about it if someone gets hurt. We had that last year with so many players falling like flies. You just continue on the best you can - nothing else you can pretty much do about it...

The difference with those other players is their best OL is sitting at home doing nothing. If one of them get hurt, do you continue the hard-line approach or reach out to him?

If you ask me, the Bills should reach out to Parker and see what it would take to get Peters into camp. People can talk all they want about honoring a contract and taking a hard line, but the fact is a contract doesn't mean much in the NFL. Peters is a top player, so he it isn't like most other guys.

The Bills need to find some sort of compromise. Maybe they tell him they re-do his deal if he comes back and plays the season. Maybe they throw him a few bucks in the interim. This closer they get to the season, the more important it becomes. If there is an injury, that only increases his leverage.

You can say the team is willing to let him sit at home and suffer to prove a point, but they are hurting themselves as much as him. It makes no sense, given the positive feelings surrounding the coming season, to let this fester. He is one of their best players, they need to deal with him. Some may see that as weakness, I see it as the opposite.

[HAMMER]

First, I never said Trent benefitted from first team reps- other people did. I was repeating what they said. Second, Chambers does not have NFL starter level talent- hopefully Trent does.

For all I know? Now you're just making **** up. As of RIGHT NOW, Chambers is RT and Walker is LT. There is absolutely no indication that will happen- you simply pulled **** out of your ass when you had no argument. 40% of the OL MOVING AND 80% PLAYING NEXT TO SOMEONE NEW IS A HUGE CHANGE. IT IS NOT ALARMIST OR LIKE PATTI AT ALL TO BE CONCERNED BY THAT.

And **** you with this ****ing drama queen bull****. THis is a SERIOUS problem for our team. You seem to at least somewhat see how bad this team will suffer without Peters. Are you even READING the articles about the negotiations? They're growing farther apart, not closer together.

You know, every time I bring up a concern about this team, you blow it off. Yet, every year the team's ****ing mediocre on the field. Stop and ****ing think about that one for a second.

Now this is rich, Op calling someone else a drama queen. LOL.

[mysticsoto]

The difference with those other players is their best OL is sitting at home doing nothing. If one of them get hurt, do you continue the hard-line approach or reach out to him?

If you ask me, the Bills should reach out to Parker and see what it would take to get Peters into camp. People can talk all they want about honoring a contract and taking a hard line, but the fact is a contract doesn't mean much in the NFL. Peters is a top player, so he it isn't like most other guys.

The Bills need to find some sort of compromise. Maybe they tell him they re-do his deal if he comes back and plays the season. Maybe they throw him a few bucks in the interim. This closer they get to the season, the more important it becomes. If there is an injury, that only increases his leverage.

You can say the team is willing to let him sit at home and suffer to prove a point, but they are hurting themselves as much as him. It makes no sense, given the positive feelings surrounding the coming season, to let this fester. He is one of their best players, they need to deal with him. Some may see that as weakness, I see it as the opposite.

Actually, I'm in agreement. But I understand the other side that will say, "Well what happens next year if all of a sudden Kyle Williams plays great this year...he's going to do the same thing." ...and so on with each player. I think they should be able to find a happy medium for everyone. But one thing I won't do is sit here and cry that the season is over b'cse of where things are in the 1st week of TC...

[OpIv37]

Now this is rich, Op calling someone else a drama queen. LOL.

I wasn't calling him a drama queen- I was cursing him out for calling me one. If anything, he's more of an ostrich than a drama queen. His head is buried in the sand regarding some very serious issues this team has.

[OpIv37]

Chambers does not have NFL starting talent? Who made you an NFL coach and/or scout. What is your Oline experience that you personally have to be judging him? See, this is one problem I have with how you view things. In your eyes, players cannot improve. Pat Williams never would have gotten the chance to start if you had been the coach. And thankfully, you are not. Last year you *****ed about DiG playing well and said he was crap and that the FO was blowing smoke up our ass b'cse, as you said, "what else was Marv going to say? That he sucks?" And yet, DiG played outstanding while covering for the injured Poz. You also criticized the FO for picking Trent b'cse...as you said, "He's just going to be a clipboard holder and we don't draft in the 3rd rd for a clip holder!" And yet, he's starting for us right now...

People can improve. I've heard you mention numerous times that the offense is going to be crap b'cse Hardy is a rookie and we pretty much have the same people - therefore we are not going to the playoffs and may not even make 8-8. But no mention about Schouman looking good at TE, us having a real FB, a new OC (which I think it going to be alot bigger than people think) and hopefully, Edwards looking better with another year under his belt. Hardy may not amount to much in his 1st year, but I am confident he'll be better than Reed was at #2 - and that in turn will make the #3 WR better also.

Why do I blow off any concern you bring up for the team. B'cse you overreact to anything and everything. B'cse if a player breaks their nail, you're in here whining about the season being over before it's even began. TC has been open 1 week and your whining didn't waste any time. If this is still the case at the end of August, then you'll have some valid concerns. As of now, though, you're just a drama queen...

It's not my view that he doesn't have starting talent. Chambers has bounced around the league for 5 years and never been a starter. NFL coaches don't think he has starting talent, so don't play that ****ing cheap game with me. And maybe he can improve, but guess what? The season starts in 6 weeks and he sure as hell won't do it in that amount of time (plus the fact that he hasn't improved over the previous 5 seasons may be a little bit of an indicator....)

If you think DiG played outstanding last year, you have extremely low standards.

and I NEVER said players can't improve. I said players can't improve enough in one season to make the 30th ranked offense playoff caliber. It's just completely unrealistic.

And if I'm such a ****ing drama queen, why is this team always so ****ing bad? All the stuff I complain about matters whether you want to admit it or not. So keep your hand in the ****ing sand. Keep being ignorant. Just don't be surprised when the team is just as mediocre as usual.

[Ickybaluky]

Actually, I'm in agreement. But I understand the other side that will say, "Well what happens next year if all of a sudden Kyle Williams plays great this year...he's going to do the same thing." ...and so on with each player.

That is only going to happen if the player has out-performed his contract to the degree Peters has. If Williams does it, they laugh in his face. He doesn't have the same kind of leverage that Peters does. You can find guys like Williams, but guys like Peters are far harder to come by.

[mysticsoto]

It's not my view that he doesn't have starting talent. Chambers has bounced around the league for 5 years and never been a starter. NFL coaches don't think he has starting talent, so don't play that ****ing cheap game with me. And maybe he can improve, but guess what? The season starts in 6 weeks and he sure as hell won't do it in that amount of time (plus the fact that he hasn't improved over the previous 5 seasons may be a little bit of an indicator....)

If you think DiG played outstanding last year, you have extremely low standards.

and I NEVER said players can't improve. I said players can't improve enough in one season to make the 30th ranked offense playoff caliber. It's just completely unrealistic.

And if I'm such a ****ing drama queen, why is this team always so ****ing bad? All the stuff I complain about matters whether you want to admit it or not. So keep your hand in the ****ing sand. Keep being ignorant. Just don't be surprised when the team is just as mediocre as usual.

"Outstanding" might have been too strong a word, but DiG played very well last year, whether you admit that to yourself or not. But before the season started, you were bashing him without even having seen him once. You also claimed the FO was just blowing smoke up our ass and that they had to say that...but he came in and did really well despite a porous Dline.

And if you're a drama queen, why is the team always so ***** bad? Are you looking for an oscar now? C'mon, there were many reasons to explain why we did so bad last year. On defense, it was obvious, losing Poz and Ko hurt us, we were down to 3rd stringers in certain games, remember? What does that have to do with the personnel we have there today? By all standards are defense has improved in virtually every area.

On offense, not having a real #2 WR was just crazy. And add to that, the terrible play calling by an OC that clearly didn't know what he was doing. Again, those situations are gone. But here you are, doing your usual annual whine. You look for the 1st thing to go wrong to jump on it. If it wasn't the Peters issue, youd find something else...maybe the MRI Ko just had, Schobel going home for a death in the family...you'd find something else to scream your 'end of the world' overreactions.

As I said, we are barely completing the 1st week of TC. Come back in 2 weeks, and if things haven't changed with Peters, then we can start discussing the ramificiations more closely, preferably without the drama...

[HAMMER]

I wasn't calling him a drama queen- I was cursing him out for calling me one. If anything, he's more of an ostrich than a drama queen. His head is buried in the sand regarding some very serious issues this team has.

I read it again and realized my error, sorry. But you are a bit dramatic.

[OpIv37]

"Outstanding" might have been too strong a word, but DiG played very well last year, whether you admit that to yourself or not. But before the season started, you were bashing him without even having seen him once. You also claimed the FO was just blowing smoke up our ass and that they had to say that...but he came in and did really well despite a porous Dline.

And if you're a drama queen, why is the team always so ***** bad? Are you looking for an oscar now? C'mon, there were many reasons to explain why we did so bad last year. On defense, it was obvious, losing Poz and Ko hurt us, we were down to 3rd stringers in certain games, remember? What does that have to do with the personnel we have there today? By all standards are defense has improved in virtually every area.

On offense, not having a real #2 WR was just crazy. And add to that, the terrible play calling by an OC that clearly didn't know what he was doing. Again, those situations are gone. But here you are, doing your usual annual whine. You look for the 1st thing to go wrong to jump on it. If it wasn't the Peters issue, youd find something else...maybe the MRI Ko just had, Schobel going home for a death in the family...you'd find something else to scream your 'end of the world' overreactions.

As I said, we are barely completing the 1st week of TC. Come back in 2 weeks, and if things haven't changed with Peters, then we can start discussing the ramificiations more closely, preferably without the drama...

So, you criticize me for mocking DiG, but then you say losing Poz hurt us. So, that means I WAS RIGHT to criticize DiG.

One of the things I was critical about last year was the WRs, which you admit hurt us. Yet, I was still whining and being a drama queen? Come on. And you think we fixed the WR situation by adding a couple of rookie WR's? Give me a ****ing break.

All those injuries you're talking about- NONE were on the offense. All we did to the O was add a rookie WR. You're ASSUMING player improvement will happen. But not all players improve. People said it last year and it got us 30th on O, 31st on D and 7-9. You have confidence in player improvement despite a complete lack of a basis.

And as far as looking for the first thing to go wrong, just STFU. I've been critical of this team ALL off-season. The Peters thing is just icing on the cake. This team was in trouble before that, and now they're in a LOT of trouble. All the people saying this team will do well was using the already-debunked "player improvement" and the "OL gelling" as the reason. Well, now the OL gelling is completely out the ****ing window too.

But go ahead- just live in your fantasy dream world and pretend all of these problems are just my negative overreactions. As usual, you'll see how wrong you are when the team hits the field.

[justasportsfan]

THis Mystic vs. OP is getting old.

:movie:

[mysticsoto]

So, you criticize me for mocking DiG, but then you say losing Poz hurt us. So, that means I WAS RIGHT to criticize DiG.

One of the things I was critical about last year was the WRs, which you admit hurt us. Yet, I was still whining and being a drama queen? Come on. And you think we fixed the WR situation by adding a couple of rookie WR's? Give me a ****ing break.

All those injuries you're talking about- NONE were on the offense. All we did to the O was add a rookie WR. You're ASSUMING player improvement will happen. But not all players improve. People said it last year and it got us 30th on O, 31st on D and 7-9. You have confidence in player improvement despite a complete lack of a basis.

And as far as looking for the first thing to go wrong, just STFU. I've been critical of this team ALL off-season. The Peters thing is just icing on the cake. This team was in trouble before that, and now they're in a LOT of trouble. All the people saying this team will do well was using the already-debunked "player improvement" and the "OL gelling" as the reason. Well, now the OL gelling is completely out the ****ing window too.

But go ahead- just live in your fantasy dream world and pretend all of these problems are just my negative overreactions. As usual, you'll see how wrong you are when the team hits the field.

Anytime we lose a starter it's always going to hurt. But you made it sound like DiG was going to be pure crap and he wasn't. As usual, you're left eating crow.

Op, you just want to complain, whine and play the drama queen. It's you. Go ahead. And as soon as we lose 1 game, you'll be there to ***** about it. And when we win a game, you'll say, "hmmmpph...we got lucky and could've lost the game" and point out all the negatives. It's who you are. I don't have time to go into long debates about your personality issues. The Peters situation is a concern at this point. Not an "OMG, it's the end of the world issue" - atleast, not yet. In 2-3 weeks, if nothing gets resolved and we are still where we are today, I might start agreeing with you, but I'm not going to be premature in my expectations for what is going to happen in the season at this point in the schedule.

[justasportsfan]

The Peters situation is a concern at this point. Not an "OMG, it's the end of the world issue" - atleast, not yet. .
depends who you're talking to.

[OpIv37]

Anytime we lose a starter it's always going to hurt. But you made it sound like DiG was going to be pure crap and he wasn't. As usual, you're left eating crow.

Op, you just want to complain, whine and play the drama queen. It's you. Go ahead. And as soon as we lose 1 game, you'll be there to ***** about it. And when we win a game, you'll say, "hmmmpph...we got lucky and could've lost the game" and point out all the negatives. It's who you are. I don't have time to go into long debates about your personality issues. The Peters situation is a concern at this point. Not an "OMG, it's the end of the world issue" - atleast, not yet. In 2-3 weeks, if nothing gets resolved and we are still where we are today, I might start agreeing with you, but I'm not going to be premature in my expectations for what is going to happen in the season at this point in the schedule.

Ok, when we win and you claim I say we "got lucky" it's called analysis- ie, noticing what went wrong and why we won't win the next game. And considering we were 7-9, I'd say I had some pretty damn good points.

If Peters doesn't play, it's an "end of the world" issue. And right now, it looks he's not going to play. You assume it will be resolved despite no evidence that it's even being worked on. That's just naive. I am NOT a drama queen just because you don't want to acknowledge the reality of these problems.

[justasportsfan]

You assume it will be resolved despite no evidence that it's even being worked on. That's just naive.

You assume it will be resolved despite no evidence that it's even being worked on. . Pot calling the kettle.
you were one of those who blasted MArv for not doing anything with th OL . The next couple of weeks they brought in Walker, Dockery and Whittle. Jumped the gun and assumed nothing was being done in the FO.

Didn't you just accuse the FO of refusing to pay Peters as well without any evidence?

[mysticsoto]

Ok, when we win and you claim I say we "got lucky" it's called analysis- ie, noticing what went wrong and why we won't win the next game. And considering we were 7-9, I'd say I had some pretty damn good points.

If Peters doesn't play, it's an "end of the world" issue. And right now, it looks he's not going to play. You assume it will be resolved despite no evidence that it's even being worked on. That's just naive. I am NOT a drama queen just because you don't want to acknowledge the reality of these problems.

I don't and am not assuming anything Op. I'm waiting...it's too early in the season and anything can happen. Like I said, in 2-3 weeks we can revisit this again if it's still an issue.

[OpIv37]

I don't and am not assuming anything Op. I'm waiting...it's too early in the season and anything can happen. Like I said, in 2-3 weeks we can revisit this again if it's still an issue.

It's an issue now so why not discuss it now? If it's resolved in 2-3 weeks then we can discuss the resolution.

[OpIv37]

Pot calling the kettle.
you were one of those who blasted MArv for not doing anything with th OL . The next couple of weeks they brought in Walker, Dockery and Whittle. Jumped the gun and assumed nothing was being done in the FO.

Didn't you just accuse the FO of refusing to pay Peters as well without any evidence?

we've been over this before- I didn't blast Marv for not doing anything with the OL in FA last year BECAUSE I DIDN"T EVEN HAVE INTERNET ACCESS THAT WEEK. By the time I got my Internet working again, those three signings were done.

So, I don't know why you keep making that claim when it's patently false.