Polian on Rome Today

[patmoran2006]

Listened to Bill Polian today on the Jim Rome show.. God, that guy is so freegin brilliant. In my opinion, he’s the best GM in football in terms of drafting and who to resign and let walk.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Sometimes I still find it hard to get over the fact <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wilson</st1:place></st1:City> got rid of this guy. In my not humble opinion, that is hands down the single-worst move in the history of this franchise.<o:p></o:p>

[LtBillsFan66]

One of Wilson's many screwups.

[patmoran2006]

Every owner has screwups in Ralphie's defense.

But this one was the worst in the history of the team, I think anyway. NO way we go a near decade postseason-less with him here.

[Ebenezer]

Listened to Bill Polian today on the Jim Rome show.. God, that guy is so freegin brilliant. In my opinion, he’s the best GM in football in terms of drafting and who to resign and let walk.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Sometimes I still find it hard to get over the fact <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wilson</st1:place></st1:City> got rid of this guy. In my not humble opinion, that is hands down the single-worst move in the history of this franchise.<o:p></o:p>
A great football mind.....who verbally berated your daughter more than once....tough to swallow that as an employer.

[Ebenezer]

One of Wilson's many screwups.
Most problems from the start of the team have been RW's fault...that is one of the main reasons why he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF...and never will be. He did some good things for the NFL but had it not been for Polian this team would never have seen the light of day in the late 80s and 90s.

[patmoran2006]

A great football mind.....who verbally berated your daughter more than once....tough to swallow that as an employer.
If I was the owner he could have his way with my daughter if it meant my team was going to the playoffs every year.

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[ddaryl]

Yes and he was fired because he called Wilsons daughter some choice names. From what I understand Polian was 100% correct then to


yes I agree, firing Polian was by far the stupidest decision Ralph ever made. Followed closely by hiring Tom Donahue and allowing Butler to become a GM

[Ebenezer]

If I was the owner he could have his way with my daughter if it meant my team was going to the playoffs every year.

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Yeah...sure...how many businesses have you ever run. Hire me and let me do that to your daughter...you'll fire me.

[LtBillsFan66]

What did he say exactly?

[HAMMER]

If I was the owner he could have his way with my daughter if it meant my team was going to the playoffs every year.

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What a ridiculous thing to say.

[PECKERWOOD]

A great football mind.....who verbally berated your daughter more than once....tough to swallow that as an employer.

I admire your ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes but try to put yourself into Polian's shoes.. What would you think of an over-privelaged person who has gone on the record of wanting to destroy something that you're trying to build? Wilson's daughter has already made it clear that she would sell the team if she inherits it and as a Bills fan, I would not even want to be in the same room as Wilson's daughter.

[hydro]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Football has a unbreakable grasp on Pat's life. Next step, he will give up his virginity to Ralph for a super bowl.

[patmoran2006]

What a ridiculous thing to say.
You don't know his daughter

[hydro]

You don't know his daughter

She is butt ugly...

[madness]

Don't forget who taught him how to evaluate talent.

[Ebenezer]

I admire your ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes but try to put yourself into Polian's shoes.. What would you think of an over-privelaged person who has gone on the record of wanting to destroy something that you're trying to build? Wilson's daughter has already made it clear that she would sell the team if she inherits it and as a Bills fan, I would not even want to be in the same room as Wilson's daughter.
The disagreement was 17 years ago...long before she said anything about not wanting the team.

And guys, it shouldn't matter if she was ugly, whether you agree with the business decisions or whatever...You would really choose something over your family? Really? If memory serves getting rid of Polian didn't destroy the team. The Bills still went to two SB without him and made it back to the playoffs twice. I am not defending RW but you guys make sound as if BP was shown the door and the team dropped to 1-15 never to see the light of day again. The downslide was going to happen BP being here or not. The problem is what has happened since Butler was shown the door.

[patmoran2006]

The Bills went to a SB after he left, but it was a team that was built by Polian.

Butler did a decent job but also put us in cap hell. After him, is when it really got ugly, although initially Donahoe did a great job of gettting us out of a cap mess.

[Ickybaluky]

And guys, it shouldn't matter if she was ugly, whether you agree with the business decisions or whatever...

I think that matters a great deal. If she was hot, there is no way he could get away with insulting her.

[patmoran2006]

If my memory serves me correct, Bill Polian called a "fn *****" very publicly.

[ddaryl]

What did he say exactly?

If your replying in regards to what Polian said to Ralph's daughter... From what my Uncle told me, and he has some ins on this.. he called her a "dumb b_tch"

or something to that effect.

[Ebenezer]

If my memory serves me correct, Bill Polian called a "fn *****" very publicly.
I don't remember it publicly but there were reports soon after it came to light that it had been going on awhile. Supposedly, it wasn't like it happened once. I am pretty sure I remember Vic Carucci discussing this a long time ago.

[Ebenezer]

If your replying in regards to what Polian said to Ralph's daughter... From what my Uncle told me, and he has some ins on this.. he called her a "dumb b_tch"

or something to that effect.
I believe, if memory serves, Pat is a little closer in his quote...and like I said, if I remember Carucci talking about it it happened on more than one occasion. For all his football knowledge and sense BP was a known hot head.

[Ickybaluky]

Well, if she was one then the firing wasn't justified.

[Ebenezer]

Well, if she was one then the firing wasn't justified.
If somebody said that more than once to my daughter they would be more than unemployed...and from what Carucci (or Jim Kelley) reported Polian was fired before the season began and allowed to work through the season...RW didn't have to be that kind.

[patmoran2006]

And it's not feasible she gave him ample reason for his comments?

And even if true; you don't fire the best GM in the NFL over it. Make arrangements so that they're not around each other anymore. It's not like she was the VP of football operations.

ANyway it's looked at; his firing is easily the single-worst move in the history of the franchise, unless you want to say that Ralphie hiring his daugther to work for the Bills is the worst move ever, since it ultimately got him fired.

[Ickybaluky]

If somebody said that more than once to my daughter they would be more than unemployed...and from what Carucci (or Jim Kelley) reported Polian was fired before the season began and allowed to work through the season...RW didn't have to be that kind.

That would depend if your daughter was, in fact, a *****. Perhaps she was unaware of it. Maybe she had it coming. Maybe he was doing her a favor.

Really, by firing Polian his daughter may have gone on being a ***** all these years without realizing it. Ralph could have saved her a lot of trouble.

What kind of father is that?

[trapezeus]

yeah, you don't pick the other guy over your kid, but still, knowing how valuable he is to your team, you move your kid to another area and scold polian to not do it again and that he's on thin ice.

I don't think you go to the extreme to firing a guy who literally has you within inches of tasting a superbowl win. You find a common ground and move from there.

And to whoever said, the daughter doesn't want to inherit the team so why side with her. I say amen.

[Philagape]

So .... The Bills suffer, and Polian goes on to build a SB team elsewhere.



Way to show him, Ralph. That'll teach him!

[raphael120]

One of the many things about this franchise that makes me want to stab myself in the ****ing face.

[chernobylwraiths]

You don't know his daughter

But apparently you would sell yours into prostitution for Bills wins. Nice.

[chernobylwraiths]

Bills fans are so fickle. Many were trying to run him out of town before that. The issue with the daughter wasn't a one shot deal, they hated each other for a while and I had heard that the comments weren't uttered only once. He's also the same guy who told people who live here to get the hell out of town if they didn't like how he ran his football team.

Hey the guy's smart and a very good football talent evaluator, but he has won ONE superbowl. And many feel that it is because of the defense that he did that. Plus, he got to pick really high a few times to get his guys. Peyton Manning number 1 overall. Let's not cannonize him yet. He has admitted he made mistakes in the past and he was a big hothead.

[Ebenezer]

how many of the guys defending Polian have daughters or run a business?

You are looking at history through the colored glasses of no playoffs since 1999. I'm not happy that he fired BP. Hell, I have been one of RW's worst critics. He is a meddler and has always been the number 1 problem with this team...however, family always comes first. At the time, the rumors were that she would be the eventual owner. Again, it was 17 or more years ago. She had not given any indication that she didn't want the team.

[Jan Reimers]

As Bruce once famously said, "This is water over the bridge."

[Philagape]

Bills fans are so fickle. Many were trying to run him out of town before that. The issue with the daughter wasn't a one shot deal, they hated each other for a while and I had heard that the comments weren't uttered only once. He's also the same guy who told people who live here to get the hell out of town if they didn't like how he ran his football team.

Hey the guy's smart and a very good football talent evaluator, but he has won ONE superbowl. And many feel that it is because of the defense that he did that. Plus, he got to pick really high a few times to get his guys. Peyton Manning number 1 overall. Let's not cannonize him yet. He has admitted he made mistakes in the past and he was a big hothead.

"but he has won ONE superbowl."


Winning a Super Bowl gets a "but" before it? OMG


Are you just trying to be contrarian here? Don't like the loudmouths, so you have to come up with something, anything, to try to argue with them?

Like putting a "but" before a Super Bowl title?
Like saying something about the defense? (yeah, like Polian only built the offense)
Like talking about high draft picks as if that's a guarantee? Tell the Lions or Browns or even the BILLS that. Drafting ANYWHERE still requires good drafting.


But he told some people to get the hell out of town, so let's downplay one of the greatest FO careers of all time. Nice.


Only one Super Bowl :rofl:

[Goobylal]

If Polian wasn't fired after the 3rd SB loss, he would have been fired after the 4th one, and definitely after the 1994 season when the Bills missed the playoffs. The Bills had run their course and weren't going to win it all and Polian's abrasive personality were wearing thin. In addition, Polian's penchant for overpaying guys like Wright and Kelso were main reasons why the defense failed in those SB's, particularly the first.

And don't forget what he did to Carolina, despite a boatload of picks. Outside of them going to the NFCCG in their 2nd season, the Panthers were set-up to fail under Polian.

[chernobylwraiths]

"but he has won ONE superbowl."


Winning a Super Bowl gets a "but" before it? OMG


Are you just trying to be contrarian here? Don't like the loudmouths, so you have to come up with something, anything, to try to argue with them?

Like putting a "but" before a Super Bowl title?
Like saying something about the defense? (yeah, like Polian only built the offense)
Like talking about high draft picks as if that's a guarantee? Tell the Lions or Browns or even the BILLS that. Drafting ANYWHERE still requires good drafting.


But he told some people to get the hell out of town, so let's downplay one of the greatest FO careers of all time. Nice.


Only one Super Bowl :rofl:

He is a great talent evaluator who has mellowed with age. He was completely and totally wrong for some of the things he did and said and totally deserved to be fired for it. That is my argument. The one superbowl comment is for those who have deified him like he has never lost and never makes mistakes.

Having Peyton Manning sure makes things a bit easier to win, and drafting earlier makes is easier (in theory) to get better players.

You and others act as if there is nothing he could have done to cause him to be fired.

[HAMMER]

You don't know his daughter

Umm, you said "if it was my daughter".

[Philagape]

He is a great talent evaluator who has mellowed with age. He was completely and totally wrong for some of the things he did and said and totally deserved to be fired for it. That is my argument. The one superbowl comment is for those who have deified him like he has never lost and never makes mistakes.

Having Peyton Manning sure makes things a bit easier to win, and drafting earlier makes is easier (in theory) to get better players.

You and others act as if there is nothing he could have done to cause him to be fired.

People give credit to a guy who built the only team to go to a SB four straight times, and then built a SB winner and perennial playoff team. That deserves some pretty high praise, and it's only people who have some kind of grudge who want to paint that as deification, distort it into saying he's perfect (which no one is saying) or downplay his record.
It's guys like Polian who turn "theory" into reality.

My point earlier was that it's ironic to say Polian "deserved" to be fired; because he went on to much better things than the Bills did. Firing Polian was good for Polian, bad for the Bills. Only the team was hurt. However understandable or justified it was, it was a bad call.

[chernobylwraiths]

People give credit to a guy who built the only team to go to a SB four straight times, and then built a SB winner and perennial playoff team. That deserves some pretty high praise, and it's only people who have some kind of grudge who want to paint that as deification, distort it into saying he's perfect (which no one is saying) or downplay his record.
It's guys like Polian who turn "theory" into reality.

My point earlier was that it's ironic to say Polian "deserved" to be fired; because he went on to much better things than the Bills did. Firing Polian was good for Polian, bad for the Bills. Only the team was hurt. However understandable or justified it was, it was a bad call.

Went on to much better than the Bills did? How many Superbowls have his teams been to since leaving Buffalo?

[Ebenezer]

Went on to much better than the Bills did? How many Superbowls have his teams been to since leaving Buffalo?
One...but his record far outweighs what the Bills have done since.

[Goobylal]

My point earlier was that it's ironic to say Polian "deserved" to be fired; because he went on to much better things than the Bills did. Firing Polian was good for Polian, bad for the Bills. Only the team was hurt. However understandable or justified it was, it was a bad call.
The Colts "went on to much better things than the Bills did" because they faced a weak team in the SB. The Bills never did.

[chernobylwraiths]

One...but his record far outweighs what the Bills have done since.

Bills have gone to two since. technically

some people only see championships as success

Also, with Butler we were successful, but the cap got screwed and Butler wanted out. Wilson then did something that everybody wanted and hired a "proven" football guy and relinquished his team president duties. That didn't turn out so well either.

[Philagape]

This is unbelievable that this is being argued.

Since 1999, the Bills are 64-80 with one playoff berth.

The Colts are 102-42 with eight playoff berths and a CHAMPIONSHIP, which alone is more the Bills' entire history.

Unbelievable.

[Philagape]

The Colts "went on to much better things than the Bills did" because they faced a weak team in the SB. The Bills never did.

And along the way they beat the Patriots, which was the real Super Bowl.

[Goobylal]

And along the way they beat the Patriots, which was the real Super Bowl.
Doesn't make a difference. I'm talking about once they were in the SB. Had the Bills faced an NFC opponent as weak as the 2006 Bears, they would have won at least 1 SB.

Polian's Bills teams had 4 tries and failed. How much longer did anyone think Polian would have been kept, even if he hadn't insulted Ralph's daughter? And what about his work in Carolina?

[Ickybaluky]

how many of the guys defending Polian have daughters or run a business?

I have two, and I hope if they were being *****es someone would try to set them straight.

Bottom line is Polian has a track record of building teams. He bulit the Bills. He left and built the Panthers expansion franchise and brought them to the NFC Championship. Then he left and built Indy to one of the premier teams of this decade.

The guy may be a world-class ass, but his track record speaks for itself. Lombardi wasn't always the easiest guy to get along with either. Parcells. Ron Wolf. All of them curmudgeons, but great team-builders.

Maybe Ralph should have kept his daughters away from the guys running the team.

[Philagape]

Doesn't make a difference. I'm talking about once they were in the SB. Had the Bills faced an NFC opponent as weak as the 2006 Bears, they would have won at least 1 SB.

They were the best team in the league. Period.


Polian's Bills teams had 4 tries and failed. How much longer did anyone think Polian would have been kept, even if he hadn't insulted Ralph's daughter? And what about his work in Carolina?

The homerism in this place that tries to downplay anything that makes a Buffalo team look bad is unreal. Yeah, Polian's future was in jeopardy after four straight Super Bowls (so was it his fault they didn't face a weak opponent?). Yeah, a stint in Carolina (only an NFC title game!) ruins everything else he's done.
UNBELIEVABLE. :banghead:

[chernobylwraiths]

I have two, and I hope if they were being *****es someone would try to set them straight.

Bottom line is Polian has a track record of building teams. He bulit the Bills. He left and built the Panthers expansion franchise and brought them to the NFC Championship. Then he left and built Indy to one of the premier teams of this decade.

The guy may be a world-class ass, but his track record speaks for itself. Lombardi wasn't always the easiest guy to get along with either. Parcells. Ron Wolf. All of them curmudgeons, but great team-builders.

Maybe Ralph should have kept his daughters away from the guys running the team.

His daughter was/is part of the FO.

Fact is, call your bosses daughter a ***** or C word and see if you keep your job. That is where Eb and myself are coming from. Do stupid stuff like that and you won't have your job long. Learn from it and you will keep your job (which I bet Polian has done).

[Night Train]

As Bruce once famously said, "This is water over the bridge."
:rofl:

[Ickybaluky]

His daughter was/is part of the FO.

Sound like nepotism was an issue.


Fact is, call your bosses daughter a ***** or C word and see if you keep your job. That is where Eb and myself are coming from. Do stupid stuff like that and you won't have your job long. Learn from it and you will keep your job (which I bet Polian has done).

Fact is if you own an NFL franchise you let the football people run things. You don't inject your kids into things and let them upset the apple cart. You don't let a personality conflict get in the way of winning.

[coastal]

The blind love of ones children has led many wealthy businessmen to **** up good companies by entilting these lechorous nipple suckers to somehow think they hold any value or power within these companies.

Ralph Wilson fired the best GM in Bills' history (and arguably one of the best GM's ever) all because Bill told daddy's little girl the truth.

To this day, the Bills are still trying to recover from that decision.

[chernobylwraiths]

Sound like nepotism was an issue.



Fact is if you own an NFL franchise you let the football people run things. You don't inject your kids into things and let them upset the apple cart. You don't let a personality conflict get in the way of winning.

Or playing by the rules in some circumstances.

[Bling]

I'm torn here. I would can anyone that said stuff like that about my daughter. I don't give two ****s about how he performs. Money isn't worth the respect my daughter deserves.

With that said, you should never put your daughter in that kind of position. Especially one that's always known what it's like to have money. He should've immediately wondered why his daughter is being called that, especially from a guy that's career is in your hands. It's not like he's some jealous boyfriend.

[chernobylwraiths]

And as Eb said, if she were going to own the team after his death, she has to learn about it.

[Goobylal]

The homerism in this place that tries to downplay anything that makes a Buffalo team look bad is unreal. Yeah, Polian's future was in jeopardy after four straight Super Bowls (so was it his fault they didn't face a weak opponent?). Yeah, a stint in Carolina (only an NFC title game!) ruins everything else he's done.
UNBELIEVABLE. :banghead:
No it wasn't his fault the Bills didn't face a weaker team in the SB. Please. But his Bills teams lost 4 straight SB's. He didn't get it done in Buffalo. Period. I don't care what he's done with the Colts because they're not my team and 15 years have passed since he was last with the Bills.

And you can't homeristically ignore his work in Carolina. So what if they made the NFCCG in the 2nd year? They were a doormat for 5 years afterwards because of his moves. He had the 1st overall pick in the draft, but there wasn't a Peyton Manning or Bruce Smith waiting for him.

[Philagape]

I don't care what he's done with the Colts because they're not my team

Here's the crux of the argument. I rest my case.

[Goobylal]

Here's the crux of the argument. I rest my case.
If that's what you think is the crux, you should rest your case.

[yordad]

A great football mind.....who verbally berated your daughter more than once....tough to swallow that as an employer.Nepotism at it's finest.

[Ebenezer]

Sound like nepotism was an issue.



Fact is if you own an NFL franchise you let the football people run things. You don't inject your kids into things and let them upset the apple cart. You don't let a personality conflict get in the way of winning.


here is the kicker...to this day nobody really knows what the issues were and how many times there were words between the two. General Managers do a lot...what if this wasn't even a football issue? What if RW agreed with his daughter on the issue? What if BP truly was wrong?

:drama:

[Ebenezer]

Guys, I am not saying that what RW did didn't affect the team long term. I'm not saying that RW isn't the original meddler - he is. He has always been problem #1 on this team.

But, I will say this to the guys still defending BP...go into work tomorrow and go ahead and call random women you work with by the names that BP supposedly called RW's daughter. The first time it is reported to your superior you might get to go to sensitivity training (if they don't fire you outright)...the next time - you're fired.

[RedEyE]

Polian should have a seat in the Hall of Fame.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

First off, let me say that, in the time that he has owned the Bills, Ralph Wilson has made some incredibly bad decisions that have really hurt the quality of the teams that the Bills have put on the field. A LOT of bad decisions, including many that were largely made for personal reasons, before he fired Polian and ended up hiring Donahoe later on: losing Lou Saban, hiring Harvey Johnson (a worse GM than Donahoe, just without as much power), driving Chuck Knox to leave, etc.

IMHO most of the good things that Wilson has done--the biggest being keeping the team in Buffalo--have been offset by his amazingly poor judgement in football matters over the years.

That being said, while I've never been happy about his firing of Bill Polian and hated the impact that it had on the team, I simply can't support the vitriolic take on it that some here have: primarily because hindsight is 20/20, but Ralph didn't know what we know now when he made the decision.

While the Bills were a Super Bowl quality team at the time, Polian was not yet the "genius" who has built three franchises into playoff teams, taken two of them to the Super Bowl and won the Lombardi Trophy in one of five appearances.

At the time he was fired by Wilson, he was a first time NFL GM who hadn't even drafted the Bills' two biggest stars, Bruce Smith and Jim Kelly. Yes, he had done an excellent job in bringing in James Lofton and Kent Hull, drafting Andre Reed, Nate Odomes, Will Wolford, Shane Conlan and Thurman Thomas, surrounding them with key role players like Steve Tasker, etc., and swinging the Corneillus Bennett trade (which, if you recall, was a somewhat risky trade because the Bills gave up a 1,000 yard rusher and what figured to be a high # 1 draft choice for Bennett), but he was not yet considered "the best GM in the NFL". Without question, Polian was known as a top personnel evaluator, but he was not yet the certain Hall of Famer that he is now.

At the time, Wilson had every reason to wonder whether the success of those Bills teams was due to Polian's ability as a talent evaluator or Marv Levy's ability to work with Polian (who Levy had given his first full-time scouting job in the CFL) and develop the talent that Polian provided to him. Wilson might well have thought that, given the fact that Levy had spotted Polian's talent in the first place, Marv could help him to replace Polian if he let him go. And, besides which, with Butler and AJ Smith, the guy who is now San Diego's GM, still remaining in the Bills' FO, Wilson may have felt that Polian was replaceable--he would have to continue to live with his daughter...and more importantly, her mother!--and he no longer needed to tolerate Polian's insults and insubordination.

And, I say insubordination because you might be able to get away with insulting your boss' daughter once--as has been suggested already, the boss may take you aside and tell you he'll let it go this time, but don't do it again--but no employer in the world is going to let you get away with doing it twice. And, as has been stated, there are reports that Polian insulted Wilson's daughter on more than one occasion.

Sorry, guys, but that's going to get you fired in any business. That's just the way things work.

Now, you can argue that Wilson's daughter is a *****--and butt-ugly to boot--and that she deserved to be put in her place by someone. And, you might be right (I don't know about the ***** part, but, from what little I have seen of her, I do think that she is butt-ugly and I wasn't impressed by her attitude). But, still, as an employee, you cannot come out and say that: not to your boss or to anyone where there is even the slightest chance that it will get back to your boss! Not unless you are looking to get fired.

You might be the best person in the world at your job. And, one of your boss' kids might be interfering in you doing your work and making your job harder. But, there are ways to deal with that which do not involve publicly calling your boss' kid insulting names. If you are the best in the world at your business, you should be smart enough to know that and to know that, if you do come out and call your boss' kid those names you are going to put your boss in an untenable situation where he's pretty much going to have to fire you to keep domestic peace at home.

Now, as I have said, Ralph Wilson has made some incredibly bone-headed decisions in running the Bills and a number of them have been driven by personal reasons and his ego, so I can't help but place some of the fault on his shoulders. But, if you are working for a guy who owns a business in the kind of position that Polian was in, you have to know that the guy you are working for has a big ego, particularly if he has had a history of letting personal matters and his ego get in the way of his business decisions in the past. If you know that, you have to realize that you can't go around insulting his kids--even if they deserve to be insulted--because eventually it is going to get back to either him or his wife and he will end up seeing that as an affront to his ego, his family, etc. And, you will lose your job.

Polian should have known that and, no matter what he thought of the daughter, he should have kept his mouth shut. But, he let his ego get in the way and he ran his mouth. And, he got himself fired. Something that he should have been smart enough to know would happen.

So, thanks to having a pile of draft picks in Carolina and lucking into getting Peyton Manning for Indy (the riskiest and perhaps most brilliant things that Polian did there were drafting E.James and hiring T.Dungy), Polian has gone on to become the best GM in the game and a likely HOFer. And, the Bills have been in a decline that has seen them out of the playoffs every year this century.

But, nobody knew that would be the case the day that Wilson fired Polian. And, at least insofar as the case of the Bills' decline, that didn't have to happen: while the firing of Polian might have been the beginning of the Bills' decline, its continuation has been due to other personality conflicts and bad-decisions that can, more properly, be laid at Wilson's doorstep--the worst of which was the hiring of T.Donahoe (which also didn't look like such a bad move at the time).

Personally, I find more to fault Wilson on in his handling of Butler and AJ Smith and the way that he let Donahoe destroy his team and its image in the area than for his firing of Polian. Taken together, I see these things as being further evidence of Ralph's poor judgement in running the team--poor judgement that has hampered the franchise since its inception--in terms of putting the best, most competitive team possible out on the field year in and year out. That is something, however, that the team can and has been able to overcome from time to time and that I, as a fan, am resigned to having to continue to hope that the FO, coaches and players will be able to do for as long as Wilson continues to own the team.

Firing Bill Polian wasn't the first--or, one could argue, the worst--bad decision that Ralph Wilson made that set the Bills back on the field (you can complain about having to live through 8 years without going to the playoffs, but do you have any idea what it is like to live through a one or two win season, like the ones the Bills had in the late 1960s, with no hope that the team would get better or even be competitive?). And, sadly, it is not likely to be the last. IMHO it was just one of the bigger ones, yet one that he may have had some reasonable justification for making (more than in some other instances).

PS: There are and have been other owners who have shown much better judgement than Ralph over the years. And, there have also been others who have been far worse (including Ralph's best friend, Willam C. Ford, owner of the Detroit Lions). I just hope that, when the Bills are ultimately sold, they get an owner who not only keeps the Bills in WNY, but is in the former category and not the latter!

[Ickybaluky]

here is the kicker...to this day nobody really knows what the issues were and how many times there were words between the two. General Managers do a lot...what if this wasn't even a football issue? What if RW agreed with his daughter on the issue? What if BP truly was wrong?

Say what you want, but Polian wins. That is the bottom line in the NFL. As a fan, I want my team to win.

Granted, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. If he had raped her or something, he would deserve to be fired. However, calling her a name? Having a personality conflict with the owner's daughter? That is something to be managed.

[chernobylwraiths]

Granted, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. If he had raped her or something, he would deserve to be fired. However, calling her a name? Having a personality conflict with the owner's daughter? That is something to be managed.

Really?! He would have had to rape her in order to be fired in your eyes?

[Ickybaluky]

Really?! He would have had to rape her in order to be fired in your eyes?

I was using hyperbole for effect.

He certainly would have to do something more serious than call someone some names.

The bottom line is good owners in the NFL hire experienced people to run their team and them stay out of the way and let them do their job. Their job performance is easy to measure in wins and losses, and Polian obviously did a great job with those Bills' teams.

Polian's fault wasn't having a personality conflict with someone in Wilson's family, the fault was Wilson not keeping his family from getting in the way of Polian doing his job.

[chernobylwraiths]

I was using hyperbole for effect.

He certainly would have to do something more serious than call someone some names.

The bottom line is good owners in the NFL hire experienced people to run their team and them stay out of the way and let them do their job. Their job performance is easy to measure in wins and losses, and Polian obviously did a great job with those Bills' teams.

Polian's fault wasn't having a personality conflict with someone in Wilson's family, the fault was Wilson not keeping his family from getting in the way of Polian doing his job.

So, you are telling me that Polian only had personality conflicts with Wilson's daughter, a person who was in a high ranking position on the team?

Regardless of his conflict with Wilson's daughter, you are completely wrong as he had high profile personality conflicts with others including fans and the media.

[HughC]

It seems like Polian was, and still is, one of those very talented individuals who comes with a lot of baggage - just like many NFL players. There's a right way and wrong one to do things, whether it be in the Bills offices or in any one of our own workplaces. With 20-20 hindsight it's easy to say Ralph made the wrong decision, but at the time I thought it was the right move.

Since it wasn't an islolated incident, I would say that there was a very good chance that Polian had been pulled aside and told to knock it off. Maybe Ralph should have come up with some type of other punishment (fine? apology?) and also placed her in another department, but at some point the owner risks losing respect and control in a situation like that (TO with the Eagles.) It's like a company who's top salesman doesn't obey any rules, comes and goes when he wants, and eventually forces his employer to let him go despite his production.

Personally I think it's just a matter of time before Polian crosses the line again; I disagree with earlier comments that he has mellowed over time or learned from his mistakes. Two years ago he shoved a Jets employee, and then there was the time the Patriots QB - not sure if it was Brady or Flutie - was scrambling and Polian was screaming 'break his leg, break his f'n leg.' One thing for one of us to say that, it's another for a team GM to say it. To me, that's the personality of a person that will likely cross the line again.

[Ickybaluky]

So, you are telling me that Polian only had personality conflicts with Wilson's daughter, a person who was in a high ranking position on the team?

Regardless of his conflict with Wilson's daughter, you are completely wrong as he had high profile personality conflicts with others including fans and the media.

Big whoop! The guy won. That is the bottom line. Short of breaking laws, you deal with it.

Parcells was an arrogant jerk-off as well. Lombardi had some legendary run-ins with people. However, they won. Like Polian, they were paranoid about anyone who criticized them.

Let's face it, letting Polian go was a dumb move. The guy is one of the best GMs in the game. I don't like him either, but he won. You can't take that away.

[chernobylwraiths]

Big whoop! The guy won. That is the bottom line. Short of breaking laws, you deal with it.

Parcells was an arrogant jerk-off as well. Lombardi had some legendary run-ins with people. However, they won. Like Polian, they were paranoid about anyone who criticized them.

Let's face it, letting Polian go was a dumb move. The guy is one of the best GMs in the game. I don't like him either, but he won. You can't take that away.

I think I have said several times that he is a great GM/talent evaluator. Being a jerk is one thing, being a complete idiot and forcing a person to fire you is another.

Of course, I can understand this attitude from someone who follows the team that WILL do anything to win, whether it is against the rules or not.

[HughC]

In case anybody was interested, I stumbled across this Polian interview today.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AknjP2d8mLQt7XvY49S3JyJDubYF?slug=jc-polianqanda080808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I get the impression that everything he does and says is very calculated - when he has his emotions under control - looking ahead three moves, like he's playing a game of chess.

[Ebenezer]

First off, let me say that, in the time that he has owned the Bills, Ralph Wilson has made some incredibly bad decisions that have really hurt the quality of the teams that the Bills have put on the field. A LOT of bad decisions, including many that were largely made for personal reasons, before he fired Polian and ended up hiring Donahoe later on: losing Lou Saban, hiring Harvey Johnson (a worse GM than Donahoe, just without as much power), driving Chuck Knox to leave, etc.

IMHO most of the good things that Wilson has done--the biggest being keeping the team in Buffalo--have been offset by his amazingly poor judgement in football matters over the years.

That being said, while I've never been happy about his firing of Bill Polian and hated the impact that it had on the team, I simply can't support the vitriolic take on it that some here have: primarily because hindsight is 20/20, but Ralph didn't know what we know now when he made the decision.

While the Bills were a Super Bowl quality team at the time, Polian was not yet the "genius" who has built three franchises into playoff teams, taken two of them to the Super Bowl and won the Lombardi Trophy in one of five appearances.

At the time he was fired by Wilson, he was a first time NFL GM who hadn't even drafted the Bills' two biggest stars, Bruce Smith and Jim Kelly. Yes, he had done an excellent job in bringing in James Lofton and Kent Hull, drafting Andre Reed, Nate Odomes, Will Wolford, Shane Conlan and Thurman Thomas, surrounding them with key role players like Steve Tasker, etc., and swinging the Corneillus Bennett trade (which, if you recall, was a somewhat risky trade because the Bills gave up a 1,000 yard rusher and what figured to be a high # 1 draft choice for Bennett), but he was not yet considered "the best GM in the NFL". Without question, Polian was known as a top personnel evaluator, but he was not yet the certain Hall of Famer that he is now.

At the time, Wilson had every reason to wonder whether the success of those Bills teams was due to Polian's ability as a talent evaluator or Marv Levy's ability to work with Polian (who Levy had given his first full-time scouting job in the CFL) and develop the talent that Polian provided to him. Wilson might well have thought that, given the fact that Levy had spotted Polian's talent in the first place, Marv could help him to replace Polian if he let him go. And, besides which, with Butler and AJ Smith, the guy who is now San Diego's GM, still remaining in the Bills' FO, Wilson may have felt that Polian was replaceable--he would have to continue to live with his daughter...and more importantly, her mother!--and he no longer needed to tolerate Polian's insults and insubordination.

And, I say insubordination because you might be able to get away with insulting your boss' daughter once--as has been suggested already, the boss may take you aside and tell you he'll let it go this time, but don't do it again--but no employer in the world is going to let you get away with doing it twice. And, as has been stated, there are reports that Polian insulted Wilson's daughter on more than one occasion.

Sorry, guys, but that's going to get you fired in any business. That's just the way things work.

Now, you can argue that Wilson's daughter is a *****--and butt-ugly to boot--and that she deserved to be put in her place by someone. And, you might be right (I don't know about the ***** part, but, from what little I have seen of her, I do think that she is butt-ugly and I wasn't impressed by her attitude). But, still, as an employee, you cannot come out and say that: not to your boss or to anyone where there is even the slightest chance that it will get back to your boss! Not unless you are looking to get fired.

You might be the best person in the world at your job. And, one of your boss' kids might be interfering in you doing your work and making your job harder. But, there are ways to deal with that which do not involve publicly calling your boss' kid insulting names. If you are the best in the world at your business, you should be smart enough to know that and to know that, if you do come out and call your boss' kid those names you are going to put your boss in an untenable situation where he's pretty much going to have to fire you to keep domestic peace at home.

Now, as I have said, Ralph Wilson has made some incredibly bone-headed decisions in running the Bills and a number of them have been driven by personal reasons and his ego, so I can't help but place some of the fault on his shoulders. But, if you are working for a guy who owns a business in the kind of position that Polian was in, you have to know that the guy you are working for has a big ego, particularly if he has had a history of letting personal matters and his ego get in the way of his business decisions in the past. If you know that, you have to realize that you can't go around insulting his kids--even if they deserve to be insulted--because eventually it is going to get back to either him or his wife and he will end up seeing that as an affront to his ego, his family, etc. And, you will lose your job.

Polian should have known that and, no matter what he thought of the daughter, he should have kept his mouth shut. But, he let his ego get in the way and he ran his mouth. And, he got himself fired. Something that he should have been smart enough to know would happen.

So, thanks to having a pile of draft picks in Carolina and lucking into getting Peyton Manning for Indy (the riskiest and perhaps most brilliant things that Polian did there were drafting E.James and hiring T.Dungy), Polian has gone on to become the best GM in the game and a likely HOFer. And, the Bills have been in a decline that has seen them out of the playoffs every year this century.

But, nobody knew that would be the case the day that Wilson fired Polian. And, at least insofar as the case of the Bills' decline, that didn't have to happen: while the firing of Polian might have been the beginning of the Bills' decline, its continuation has been due to other personality conflicts and bad-decisions that can, more properly, be laid at Wilson's doorstep--the worst of which was the hiring of T.Donahoe (which also didn't look like such a bad move at the time).

Personally, I find more to fault Wilson on in his handling of Butler and AJ Smith and the way that he let Donahoe destroy his team and its image in the area than for his firing of Polian. Taken together, I see these things as being further evidence of Ralph's poor judgement in running the team--poor judgement that has hampered the franchise since its inception--in terms of putting the best, most competitive team possible out on the field year in and year out. That is something, however, that the team can and has been able to overcome from time to time and that I, as a fan, am resigned to having to continue to hope that the FO, coaches and players will be able to do for as long as Wilson continues to own the team.

Firing Bill Polian wasn't the first--or, one could argue, the worst--bad decision that Ralph Wilson made that set the Bills back on the field (you can complain about having to live through 8 years without going to the playoffs, but do you have any idea what it is like to live through a one or two win season, like the ones the Bills had in the late 1960s, with no hope that the team would get better or even be competitive?). And, sadly, it is not likely to be the last. IMHO it was just one of the bigger ones, yet one that he may have had some reasonable justification for making (more than in some other instances).

PS: There are and have been other owners who have shown much better judgement than Ralph over the years. And, there have also been others who have been far worse (including Ralph's best friend, Willam C. Ford, owner of the Detroit Lions). I just hope that, when the Bills are ultimately sold, they get an owner who not only keeps the Bills in WNY, but is in the former category and not the latter!
As always...incredbly awesome...(and, no, I am not just saying that because we agree - great stuff!)