My training camp report.....lots of stuff!

[Coach Sal]

Thanks for being patient everyone. Hope this gives you some good info:

http://www.salsports.com/2008%20Bill...p%20Report.htm (http://www.salsports.com/2008%20Bills%20Training%20Camp%20Report.htm)

[trapezeus]

i may have misunderstood, but you say Steve Fairchild a couple times when i think you mean turk. other than taht, great stuff

[Coach Sal]

i may have misunderstood, but you say Steve Fairchild a couple times when i think you mean turk. other than taht, great stuff

Yeah. I fixed it a few minutes ago. Thanks.

It's been a long week. :)

[don137]

Awesome well written report Sal!!! Thanks for the feedback.

[LtBillsFan66]

Love the report. Thanks Sal!

[Dr. Lecter]

Very nice write-up.

I hope Crowell's injury heals up and that McKelvin/Corner "get it" soon.

[mybills]

Good job, coach! :up:

[DraftBoy]

Good report Sal, no shock about Hardy its been his knock all throughout college, he will struggle if pressed by a physical corner to break free.

[hydro]

Great, great read Sal.

[Philagape]

Good report.

How's Walker faring at LT? He'd be blocking Schobel, right?

[don137]

Hey Sal, did the Bills say who will be starting at LT- Chambers or Walker?

[patmoran2006]

I can answer that one.
I talked to Ray Brown (Ast OL coach) and their plans for the immediate future is to have Walker play LT and Chambers the RT spot.

That's the starters for tommorow night.

[patmoran2006]

Good report.

How's Walker faring at LT? He'd be blocking Schobel, right?
LOL I’m not trying to steal Sal’s thunder (awesome report BTW, and tonight when I got time I want to offer some additional things to add to what you said) and im sure he has his own opinion on it.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
But <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Walker</st1:place></st1:City> does NOT look comfortable at all and he would much rather be playing the right side. I don’t think he has the athleticism to play the left side with the kind of plays the Bills like to run, and he knows he was very effective on the right side last year (he was my biggest surprise Bill of 2007) Ellis owned him on one play Thursday, and I’m not sure but I think it was Spraggen that blew by him on a blitz.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We all want Peters back obviously, but I’m telling you right now, I HATE the move of <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Walker</st1:place></st1:City> to the left. I’m also willing to bet if Peters isn’t back within a week they put Chambers on the left side, because it looks like to me in a big way that with <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Walker</st1:place></st1:City> on the left they are weaker in two positions instead of one.<o:p></o:p>

[Jan Reimers]

Great report, Sal. I particularly liked your coverage of Whitner, who many of us think is becoming the leader of our defense, and Parrish. Let's hope Roscoe can become a game changer this year.

[patmoran2006]

Very in depth report, I liked it a lot..
I was hoping to finally meet ya last night.

[The last buffalo fan]

Awesome! Thanks coach for your time and effort. :up:

[dasaybz]

I'm curious to see how this offense performs on Saturday. From most of the reports I've read, they look like crap. Edwards is dumping the ball off everywhere, and the line looks terrible.

If this team can't get it together on offense again, it's going to be a long year no matter how good the D is.

[HHURRICANE]

Awesome!!

[Night Train]

I was standing on the sideline during that practice.

Didn't you notice Schouman making lots of nice grabs on the out pattern ?

Hardy did look good on the fade drill, right after the stretching exercises to start practice.

McCargo,down on one knee, sucking wind after some lineman drills in the end zone.

WR Steve Johnson looked good all afternoon.

Will James was limited but all our CB's looked good, including McKelvin. I saw him read the QB early a few times and get an incredible quick break on the ball.

I was very impressed with the talent but practice rarely ever shows what the true playcalling will reflect in game conditions. Speculation is just that.

[raphael120]

Great, McKelvin looks like a Youboty Jr. in the making. Highly touted guy who does jack squat. He can't even crack the punt return lineup behind Parrish. Dude can't even get his brain to speak good English, no wonder he can't understand what the hell is going on at the pro level.

[Dr. Lecter]

It is a little early to give up on McKelvin, don'tcha think?

And he is probably not being used on punt returns so he can concentrate on DB.

[billsburgh]

It is a little early to give up on McKelvin, don'tcha think?

And he is probably not being used on punt returns so he can concentrate on DB.
it's not like we need him neturning punts. we have a pretty good returner in Roscoe.

[dasaybz]

Great, McKelvin looks like a Youboty Jr. in the making. Highly touted guy who does jack squat. He can't even crack the punt return lineup behind Parrish. Dude can't even get his brain to speak good English, no wonder he can't understand what the hell is going on at the pro level.

Wow, a little overreacting huh?

[ddaryl]

Sounds to me like Whitner is becoming a true leader... not just a guy who runs his mouth guarnteeinng Playoffs. I like it !!!!!

Glad to hear Lynch is the beast we need to be.... Interesting thoughts on Roscoe... Now if we can just get him the ball and let him do his thing more often..

JP has been getting a bad wrap in camp from people, but if that thumb is hurting that is a definite reason for much of his horrible showing. Although he is still holding the ball way too long, and that is something we just cannot afford from th QB position no matter how sexy his long ball is

Speaking of long ball... anyone ever see the "Long Ball Larry" episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm... funny stuff !!!


thanks sal, you're a pal... appreciate the report and the effort put in to report it.

[DraftBoy]

McKelvin was raw coming out of school, we all knew he'd take time, anybody who expected him to be a big contributor this year was fooling themselves.

[mysticsoto]

It makes me wonder if perhaps DB and I were right in advocating for Dominique Rogers-Cromartie instead of McKelvin. The original reason the Bills went with McKelvin is b'cse he was more polished than DRC. I understand that hindsight is 20/20, but with Greer playing so well, Youboty stepping it up and Corner being a pleasant surprise, we can now afford to wait for development. And if McKelvin isn't ready, then it might have been better to grab DRC for long term development.

Not saying McKelvin won't improve, but in terms of long term potential, DRC appears to have a higher threshold (which he may or may not reach). The future will show which would have been the better choice....

[dasaybz]

It makes me wonder if perhaps DB and I were right in advocating for Dominique Rogers-Cromartie instead of McKelvin. The original reason the Bills went with McKelvin is b'cse he was more polished than DRC. I understand that hindsight is 20/20, but with Greer playing so well, Youboty stepping it up and Corner being a pleasant surprise, we can now afford to wait for development. And if McKelvin isn't ready, then it might have been better to grab DRC for long term development.

Not saying McKelvin won't improve, but in terms of long term potential, DRC appears to have a higher threshold (which he may or may not reach). The future will show which would have been the better choice....

How can you say that DRC has a higher threshold than McKelvin when neither one of them has played 1 single NFL game.

We are jumping the gun a little bit with all of these camp reports. Until I see for myself what these guys look like on the field, I'll take all of these reports with a grain of salt.

[DraftBoy]

It makes me wonder if perhaps DB and I were right in advocating for Dominique Rogers-Cromartie instead of McKelvin. The original reason the Bills went with McKelvin is b'cse he was more polished than DRC. I understand that hindsight is 20/20, but with Greer playing so well, Youboty stepping it up and Corner being a pleasant surprise, we can now afford to wait for development. And if McKelvin isn't ready, then it might have been better to grab DRC for long term development.

Not saying McKelvin won't improve, but in terms of long term potential, DRC appears to have a higher threshold (which he may or may not reach). The future will show which would have been the better choice....

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2543689

Psst...DRC is already getting 1st team reps in Arizona, and excelling he's been the stand out DB of camp so far for them...just saying.... :respect:

Im not saying I told you so yet, Im just saying. I watched DRC last night on ESPN, he laid Mark "Soup" Campbell out and made him leave the field.

[mysticsoto]

How can you say that DRC has a higher threshold than McKelvin when neither one of them has played 1 single NFL game.

We are jumping the gun a little bit with all of these camp reports. Until I see for myself what these guys look like on the field, I'll take all of these reports with a grain of salt.

The higher threshold refers to his outstanding physical attributes. He's much taller than McKelvin and yet faster!!!

[Night Train]

Great, McKelvin looks like a Youboty Jr. in the making. Highly touted guy who does jack squat. He can't even crack the punt return lineup behind Parrish. Dude can't even get his brain to speak good English, no wonder he can't understand what the hell is going on at the pro level.

A blind reach of epic proportions. Then again, It's your MO.

He's looked fine in the several practices I've attended. He needs to learn the terminology and adjust to the pro game, like ALL rookies. CB's always take a couple years before setttling in.

[DraftBoy]

The higher threshold refers to his outstanding physical attributes. He's much taller than McKelvin and yet faster!!!

Also a higher vertical leap, better bench press, better stats, and need I go on...?

[dasaybz]

That's all fine and well, but the **** does bench press have to do with how he performs on the field?

What is Ed Reed's bench press compared to Bob Sanders?

I mean seriously, all this combine **** drives me crazy.

[OpIv37]

It makes me wonder if perhaps DB and I were right in advocating for Dominique Rogers-Cromartie instead of McKelvin. The original reason the Bills went with McKelvin is b'cse he was more polished than DRC. I understand that hindsight is 20/20, but with Greer playing so well, Youboty stepping it up and Corner being a pleasant surprise, we can now afford to wait for development. And if McKelvin isn't ready, then it might have been better to grab DRC for long term development.

Not saying McKelvin won't improve, but in terms of long term potential, DRC appears to have a higher threshold (which he may or may not reach). The future will show which would have been the better choice....

Have you been taking politician lessons from DraftBoy as well?

That's a long way to go to basically say "we still don't know which one is better yet, so I think I was right but I'm still not entirely sure."

[DraftBoy]

That's all fine and well, but the **** does bench press have to do with how he performs on the field?

What is Ed Reed's bench press compared to Bob Sanders?

I mean seriously, all this combine **** drives me crazy.

You can act like it doesn't matter all you want, but the fact is that it does. How much? Thats an argument but it does play in, if you're 6'2 and can jump 38 inches and run a 4.3, you're going to have a better shot at the ball than somebody who is 5'10, runs a 4.4, and can only jump 33 inches. At top height DRC has an 8 inch difference in how high he can get, thats huge!

[DraftBoy]

Have you been taking politician lessons from DraftBoy as well?

That's a long way to go to basically say "we still don't know which one is better yet, so I think I was right but I'm still not entirely sure."

Oh like you're one to talk about being right....

You should know better by now. About the draft Im always right, no reason to even bother arguing. Its quite simple really :respect:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Great, McKelvin looks like a Youboty Jr. in the making. Highly touted guy who does jack squat. He can't even crack the punt return lineup behind Parrish. Dude can't even get his brain to speak good English, no wonder he can't understand what the hell is going on at the pro level.
What a JOKE.

Mckelvin was the consensus #1 CB in the draft while Youboty was a 3rd rounder. I can tell he will be a bust after two weeks.... :rolleyes:

[DraftBoy]

What a JOKE.

Mckelvin was the consensus #1 CB in the draft while Youboty was a 3rd rounder. I can tell he will be a bust after two weeks.... :rolleyes:

No he wasn't, there was a lot of dispute in who was #1.

[dasaybz]

You can act like it doesn't matter all you want, but the fact is that it does. How much? Thats an argument but it does play in, if you're 6'2 and can jump 38 inches and run a 4.3, you're going to have a better shot at the ball than somebody who is 5'10, runs a 4.4, and can only jump 33 inches. At top height DRC has an 8 inch difference in how high he can get, thats huge!

How many combine freaks have failed in the NFL, and how many guys that had poor numbers have excelled?

Sure, these numbers are OK sometimes, but nothing can replace a guy that can just flat out play football.

[OpIv37]

You can act like it doesn't matter all you want, but the fact is that it does. How much? Thats an argument but it does play in, if you're 6'2 and can jump 38 inches and run a 4.3, you're going to have a better shot at the ball than somebody who is 5'10, runs a 4.4, and can only jump 33 inches. At top height DRC has an 8 inch difference in how high he can get, thats huge!

allow me to play devil's advocate.

Can DRC get himself in a position to use that height advantage as well as McKelvin? If he can't be in the right spot, the 8" aren't going to matter much.

I honestly don't know the answer to that question because I haven't compared the way the two play. But the point is that superior physical attributes only matter if the player has the football instincts to go along with them.

Look at Antonio Brown. The guy could probably STILL beat any current Bill in a footrace except for Parrish, but he couldn't play the game worth a damn.

[DraftBoy]

How many combine freaks have failed in the NFL, and how many guys that had poor numbers have excelled?

Sure, these numbers are OK sometimes, but nothing can replace a guy that can just flat out play football.

This kid isn't a combine freak, he played lights out. He had more INT returns for touchdowns in his career than he allowed people to catch on him. I don't care who you are, thats incredible skills. Look we've been over this countless times since about December of last year when Devin pointed him out to me and I started to really follow him, the kid is a dominant cover corner, he has the skills, he has the build, he has the speed, and he has the character. I think he's going to be a future pro-bowler.

[Goobylal]

You can act like it doesn't matter all you want, but the fact is that it does. How much? Thats an argument but it does play in, if you're 6'2 and can jump 38 inches and run a 4.3, you're going to have a better shot at the ball than somebody who is 5'10, runs a 4.4, and can only jump 33 inches. At top height DRC has an 8 inch difference in how high he can get, thats huge!
McKelvin is 3" shorter than DRC but has the same VJ (38-1/2"). So that (3") is the difference.

[DraftBoy]

allow me to play devil's advocate.

Can DRC get himself in a position to use that height advantage as well as McKelvin? If he can't be in the right spot, the 8" aren't going to matter much.

I honestly don't know the answer to that question because I haven't compared the way the two play. But the point is that superior physical attributes only matter if the player has the football instincts to go along with them.

Look at Antonio Brown. The guy could probably STILL beat any current Bill in a footrace except for Parrish, but he couldn't play the game worth a damn.

I understand exactly where you'r coming from but I dont think DRC would have that issue, as I said in the post above he allowed less touchdowns than he himself scored playing defense. I think he knows how to use his size and speed to his advantage. The kid is a freak physically speaking and 15 teams are going to be kicking themselves for passing on him, in my opinion.

[DraftBoy]

McKelvin is 3" shorter than DRC but has the same VJ (38-1/2"). So that (3") is the difference.

Source? McKelvin only jumped 33" at the combine that was his official number.

[dasaybz]

This kid isn't a combine freak, he played lights out. He had more INT returns for touchdowns in his career than he allowed people to catch on him. I don't care who you are, thats incredible skills. Look we've been over this countless times since about December of last year when Devin pointed him out to me and I started to really follow him, the kid is a dominant cover corner, he has the skills, he has the build, he has the speed, and he has the character. I think he's going to be a future pro-bowler.

I didn't say he was a combine freak. I'm just pointing out the fact that until both of these guys play in a real game, it's almost impossible to say that the Bills should have taken DRC over McKelvin. It's foolish to judge guys based on training camp and the preseason.

[DraftBoy]

Source? McKelvin only jumped 33" at the combine that was his official number.

Ahhh you went with the pro day number, got it, had to go back to my notes. Stupid internet...you are correct.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't say he was a combine freak. I'm just pointing out the fact that until both of these guys play in a real game, it's almost impossible to say that the Bills should have taken DRC over McKelvin. It's foolish to judge guys based on training camp and the preseason.

Im not basing this on TC or preseason at all...

[mysticsoto]

How many combine freaks have failed in the NFL, and how many guys that had poor numbers have excelled?

Sure, these numbers are OK sometimes, but nothing can replace a guy that can just flat out play football.

Agreed, but the stats show that he's strong, fast and has incredible height for his speed. Nobody is saying he can't play either...

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can you guys get DRC's balls out of your mouth already.

[mysticsoto]

Have you been taking politician lessons from DraftBoy as well?

That's a long way to go to basically say "we still don't know which one is better yet, so I think I was right but I'm still not entirely sure."

It's a long way of saying, the reason McKelvin was picked over DRC may no longer matter - which then challenges whether we made the correct pick or not. It's still too early to tell, but I'd say signs are pointing toward DRC...

That being said, at the time he was picked, Youboty hadn't emerged and we had no way of knowing what a steal we'd get in Corner. So given the circumstances, I would not fault the FO for their pick...

[DraftBoy]

Can you guys get DRC's balls out of your mouth already.

Yea I know, god forbid somebody questions a Bills FO decision, its unholy and what not. Blah blah blah....

If you do that you aren't a true Bills fan, and just a negative nancy and yadda yadda yadda.

Did I get that about right?

[mysticsoto]

Can you guys get DRC's balls out of your mouth already.

You can't give credit to other players unless they are Bills???

[DraftBoy]

It's a long way of saying, the reason McKelvin was picked over DRC may no longer matter - which then challenges whether we made the correct pick or not. It's still too early to tell, but I'd say signs are pointing toward DRC...

That being said, at the time he was picked, Youboty hadn't emerged and we had no way of knowing what a steal we'd get in Corner. So given the circumstances, I would not fault the FO for their pick...

Can't fault anybody yet, and I don't think McKelvin will be a bust either, he'll be a good solid CB. I just think they may have slightly missed on DRC. Either way though Im still happy with McKelvin.

[DraftBoy]

You can't give credit to other players unless they are Bills???

No you are not a true fan!!

[Dr. Lecter]

Oh like you're one to talk about being right....

You should know better by now. About the draft Im always right, no reason to even bother arguing. Its quite simple really :respect:

Sure you are.

Should I say it or let Mystic say it?

[DraftBoy]

Sure you are.

Should I say it or let Mystic say it?

Ill be right about that too, just give it time...trust me just have faith. :respect:

[Dr. Lecter]

While the combine is clearly not meaningless, it is way over-used, over-hyped and over-rated.

People get giddy over numbers and forget playing ability.

(I am NOT saying DRC does not have playing ability. This is a general statement.)

[Goobylal]

Ahhh you went with the pro day number, got it, had to go back to my notes. Stupid internet...you are correct.
Yeah, I went with DRC's combine number (since, as you know, he jumped 1" less at his pro day) and McKelvin's pro day number. And I liked DRC's overall package "6' 1-1/2" and 184#, 4.29 speed, and agility drills). But I had to defer to the Bills' scouts.

[DraftBoy]

While the combine is clearly not meaningless, it is way over-used, over-hyped and over-rated.

People get giddy over numbers and forget playing ability.

(I am NOT saying DRC does not have playing ability. This is a general statement.)

No doubt the numbers have to be put into context with the guys proven track record on the field.

However I will also say that there is a recent trend from people who completely discount the combine and its results which is just as foolish as the people who think it means everything.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah, I went with DRC's combine number (since, as you know, he jumped 1" less at his pro day) and McKelvin's pro day number. And I liked DRC's overall package "6' 1-1/2" and 184#, 4.29 speed, and agility drills). But I had to defer to the Bills' scouts.

NFLDraftscout.com, right?

That's accurate, he ran every drill faster than McKelvin except for the three cone drill I believe.

[mysticsoto]

Sure you are.

Should I say it or let Mystic say it?

Everybody knows I'm the real draft expert/guru. DB is just following in my shoes... :dance:

Next year I'll have to show him up again in our 1st disagreement.

[DraftBoy]

Everybody knows I'm the real draft expert/guru. DB is just following in my shoes... :dance:

Next year I'll have to show him up again in our 1st disagreement.

Uh-huh, this year we are making a bet!

[THATHURMANATOR]

You can't give credit to other players unless they are Bills???
go for it, but is just strange all the man love you are giving a guy.

[Dr. Lecter]

The communist vs. :db:!!!!!

[DraftBoy]

The communist vs. :db:!!!!!

:db: = USA! USA! USA!

[mysticsoto]

The communist vs. :db:!!!!!

Da, Comrad...Da!!!

[DraftBoy]

Da, Comrad...Da!!!

Dirty Commie!

[mysticsoto]

go for it, but is just strange all the man love you are giving a guy.

You're reading into it too much. All that was said is that long term DRC may end up being a better prospect than McKelvin - and that's not taking anything away from McKelvin as we both think he won't be bad himself. I talked great about Jason Peters since before we drafted him and said he had tremendous potential. Acknowledging someone's physical skills and potential to be a good football player should transcend homerism and *****ing b'cse he may not be on your team of choice...

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ok great good for DRC. Why would I care in the least about him as he is not on the Bills?

[Goobylal]

NFLDraftscout.com, right?

That's accurate, he ran every drill faster than McKelvin except for the three cone drill I believe.
Yup and yup. NFLDraftscouts is the only free site I've come across that has most of the information.

[mysticsoto]

Dirty Commie!

Ju come over. Ve talk and dreenk Vodka, no? I give ju special Vodka with little bit plutonium...is communist tradition.

[mysticsoto]

Ok great good for DRC. Why would I care in the least about him as he is not on the Bills?

You don't have to care about him at all. DB and I advocated for drafting him #1 and we are curious to see if our hunch of long term potential from him was correct or not. As such, we will keep an eye on him. Nobody is trying to force you to be a fan of his...

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ju come over. Ve talk and dreenk Vodka, no? I give ju special Vodka with little bit plutonium...is communist tradition.
Oh yeah

[DraftBoy]

Yup and yup. NFLDraftscouts is the only free site I've come across that has most of the information.

Even better if you pay their service, I use them a lot as a reference site for my own notes. Best site out there for raw numbers.

[dasaybz]

Im not basing this on TC or preseason at all...

So this is based on the number of regular season games that you've seen each of them play in?

[patmoran2006]

go for it, but is just strange all the man love you are giving a guy.Nobody ever gave more love to a guy before he was drafted than I did to Vernon Davis in 2006.. remember that?

And dont call him a bust, he'lll be a monster if he ever gets someone who can throw the ball in SF

[DraftBoy]

Ju come over. Ve talk and dreenk Vodka, no? I give ju special Vodka with little bit plutonium...is communist tradition.

Better be top shelf...thats all Im saying!

[DraftBoy]

So this is based on the number of regular season games that you've seen each of them play in?

Past 2 years worth while at Tennessee State, and about 7 games of McKelvin at Troy.

[DraftBoy]

Nobody ever gave more love to a guy before he was drafted than I did to Vernon Davis in 2006.. remember that?

And dont call him a bust, he'lll be a monster if he ever gets someone who can throw the ball in SF

I don't know, I was all over DRC (and Josh Johnson) like white on rice this past year...

[mysticsoto]

Better be top shelf...thats all Im saying!

Trust me...ju vill never dreenk another Vodka again...NEVER!

[Goobylal]

Even better if you pay their service, I use them a lot as a reference site for my own notes. Best site out there for raw numbers.
In the past, I've been able to get the numbers completely for free. I guess that's changing. But what they give you for free (top 10-12 players at their positions) isn't too bad.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Nobody ever gave more love to a guy before he was drafted than I did to Vernon Davis in 2006.. remember that?

And dont call him a bust, he'lll be a monster if he ever gets someone who can throw the ball in SF
no

[raphael120]

A blind reach of epic proportions. Then again, It's your MO.

He's looked fine in the several practices I've attended. He needs to learn the terminology and adjust to the pro game, like ALL rookies. CB's always take a couple years before setttling in.

It's the Bills MO to have draft picks that don't do **** to get this team to the playoffs. So excuse me, my skepticism is warranted.

[DraftBoy]

In the past, I've been able to get the numbers completely for free. I guess that's changing. But what they give you for free (top 10-12 players at their positions) isn't too bad.

No the numbers are free but the analysis is what you have to pay for.

[dasaybz]

Past 2 years worth while at Tennessee State, and about 7 games of McKelvin at Troy.

Well, I know that you know your stuff. But I'll put my faith in Russ right now!!

[mysticsoto]

No the numbers are free but the analysis is what you have to pay for.

Why pay for it when you can get mine for free? :D

[DraftBoy]

Well, I know that you know your stuff. But I'll put my faith in Russ right now!!

Ill advised my friend, ill advised.

[DraftBoy]

Why pay for it when you can get mine for free? :D

You know I heard this year that you were writing the whole draft guide, like 200 pages worth, right??

[OpIv37]

Ok great good for DRC. Why would I care in the least about him as he is not on the Bills?

here's why you should care: If DRC turns out to be better than McKelvin, then the Bills end up paying more for a CB who isn't as good because they drafted the wrong guy. Now, it's WAY too early to tell if that's the case, but the reason the Bills have been so bad over the last decade is because of similar mistakes with other players.

Personally, at draft time I preferred McKelvin because no one was talking about DRC seriously until the combine, and for me that's a huge red flag. So I'm not bashing the front office for this pick specifically- it still remains to be seen if they were right or not.

But if you want the Bills to win, these are the kinds of mistakes that the FO can't afford to make.

[mysticsoto]

You know I heard this year that you were writing the whole draft guide, like 200 pages worth, right??

uhhh...uhhh...no hablo ingles.


:ontome:

[DraftBoy]

here's why you should care: If DRC turns out to be better than McKelvin, then the Bills end up paying more for a CB who isn't as good because they drafted the wrong guy. Now, it's WAY too early to tell if that's the case, but the reason the Bills have been so bad over the last decade is because of similar mistakes with other players.

Personally, at draft time I preferred McKelvin because no one was talking about DRC seriously until the combine, and for me that's a huge red flag. So I'm not bashing the front office for this pick specifically- it still remains to be seen if they were right or not.

But if you want the Bills to win, these are the kinds of mistakes that the FO can't afford to make.

You should come in the Scouting Zone.

[DraftBoy]

uhhh...uhhh...no hablo ingles.


:ontome:

Uh-huh, thats what I thought...

[mysticsoto]

Uh-huh, thats what I thought...

You can write up the guides...I'll just correct your rankings...:snicker:

[DraftBoy]

You can write up the guides...I'll just correct your rankings...:snicker:

Uh-huh...

You said you were in for helping with the awards this year though right??

[THATHURMANATOR]

here's why you should care: If DRC turns out to be better than McKelvin, then the Bills end up paying more for a CB who isn't as good because they drafted the wrong guy. Now, it's WAY too early to tell if that's the case, but the reason the Bills have been so bad over the last decade is because of similar mistakes with other players.

Personally, at draft time I preferred McKelvin because no one was talking about DRC seriously until the combine, and for me that's a huge red flag. So I'm not bashing the front office for this pick specifically- it still remains to be seen if they were right or not.

But if you want the Bills to win, these are the kinds of mistakes that the FO can't afford to make.
Why would I care about this?

[mysticsoto]

Uh-huh...

You said you were in for helping with the awards this year though right??


Uhhh...Hugo needs me to centralize the National Pageants Association - the gov't will be taking over all pageant operations and I have to oversee all the pageant candidates and interview them one on one as well as work with the current Miss Venezuela...

[DraftBoy]

Uhhh...Hugo needs me to centralize the National Pageants Association - the gov't will be taking over all pageant operations and I have to oversee all the pageant candidates and interview them one on one as well as work with the current Miss Venezuela...

Ill tell you what you help me with the awards, Ill help you with that, seems like a fair trade!

By the way when you get a chance go to the PF to see my early rankings and All-American teams.

[dasaybz]

Ill advised my friend, ill advised.

Based on what?

[OpIv37]

Why would I care about this?

I'm sorry man- I've already dumbed it down as much as I can. If you can't see why it matters from that, I can't help you any further.

[DraftBoy]

Based on what?

You will see, just give it time.

[Confused]

Give Parrish the ball! Great Report Sal. Thanks.

[RingofFire]

Did you guys all forget DMC only has 1 kidney. a lot riskier!

[DraftBoy]

Did you guys all forget DMC only has 1 kidney. a lot riskier!

Rev Run only has 1 kidney?!?!?

[RingofFire]

Rev Run only has 1 kidney?!?!?

DRC

[DraftBoy]

DRC

You said DMC

[Dr. Lecter]

While I agree there is a risk with one kidney, I would not say it is 'a lot' riskier.

[DraftBoy]

While I agree there is a risk with one kidney, I would not say it is 'a lot' riskier.

Considering every doctor he saw said it wasn't at all an issue. Just people spreading crap around...

[RingofFire]

While I agree there is a risk with one kidney, I would not say it is 'a lot' riskier.

Alonzo Mourning... less physical sport too

[hydro]

Alonzo Mourning... less physical sport too
He was old (relative to sports standards :D:). The kidney didn't have that much to do with it other than the recovery from the surgery.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I DON'T WANT GUYS WITH ONE KIDNEY ON MYYYYYY TEAM.

[DraftBoy]

Alonzo Mourning... less physical sport too

Zo came back and played for years with no complications

[THATHURMANATOR]

To be fair Zo had a kidney disease didn't he?

[RingofFire]

To be fair Zo had a kidney disease didn't he?

He still only had 1 Kidney.

And Zo was never the same again and missed a few seasons.

I rather have the highest ranked guy with 2 Kidneys even tho physically he is smaller and less fast.

Also wasn't DRC from a smaller school?

[DraftBoy]

He still only had 1 Kidney.

And Zo was never the same again and missed a few seasons.

I rather have the highest ranked guy with 2 Kidneys even tho physically he is smaller and less fast.

Also wasn't DRC from a smaller school?

Zo wasn't the same because he was older.

Yes DRC went to Tn St, but McKelvin went to Troy.

[yordad]

You can act like it doesn't matter all you want, but the fact is that it does. How much? Thats an argument but it does play in, if you're 6'2 and can jump 38 inches and run a 4.3, you're going to have a better shot at the ball than somebody who is 5'10, runs a 4.4, and can only jump 33 inches. At top height DRC has an 8 inch difference in how high he can get, thats huge!Well, if he is 4 inches taller and jumps 5 inches higher, that is 9 inches. Add a longer wing span, and you are talking.

I was under the impression most annalist had McKelvin rated a higher pic due to his return skills, and considering we didn't need a return guy, we needed a guy to eventually match up with Moss, I thought DRC was the clear choice.

I wanted DRC too. I was jumping when he was still available. I wasn't happy with the pick, but these guys have seen more then me, so I am waiting, and I hope I never say "I told you guys so".

Edit: Someone added a corrected vertical but i am very surprised such a good first post turned into 5 pages about DRC.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Being a superior return man was not the only reason that McKelvin was higher rated than DRC as a CB going into the draft.

McKelvin was exceptional at the Senior Bowl workouts and game. There was one day when he got his hands on virtually every pass that was thrown to the receiver he was covering during the passing drills, totally frustrating the QBs and WRs who were trying to do the drills. He also took James Hardy completely out of the game, allowing him one short reception late in the game on third down that did not result in a first down.

Despite the fact that DRC is a superior athlete, McKelvin was utterly dominating during the entire Senior Bowl week and was noticeably the best CB there in coverage. The only knock on McKelvin was that, while he got his hands on a lot of passes and batted them down or away, he did not show the ability to catch and intercept the passes that he got his hands on.

Additionally, while both CBs played in D-1AA, McKelvin and Troy played more games against tougher D-1A competion, including a number of games against very good SEC teams, like Auburn and Florida. Also, even though DRC dominated against the D-1AA competition that he faced, the scouts noticed a flaw in his coverage technique (I forget exactly what it was) that Shefter and Woodson did a segment on leading up to the draft on NFLNetwork.

Because of his superior size, athletic ability and family links (Antonio Cromartie is his cousin and, according to an article published prior to the draft, was working with DRC to help prepare him for the Combine, draft and NFL...could this be the reason that DRC is showing more early on as a rookie than McKelvin?), no doubt, DRC has the potential to become a better player than McKelvin in the NFL.

But, McKelvin was higher rated going into the draft because, having gone against tougher competition and demonstrated that he could be utterly dominant in games, including the Senior Bowl, he also has the potential to be a better player than DRC in the NFL.

Looking at the two players strictly from the standpoint of which would become the better NFL CB, it was pretty much a "pick 'em" situation. Did you prefer the guy who was the bigger, more athletic guy who had dominated at a lower level of competition, but had a flaw in his technique? Or, did you prefer the guy who might be a bit smaller and less athletic, but who has a knack for getting his hands on the ball, played against better competition and had shown that he could be utterly dominant in coverage at times? Apples and oranges. Flip a coin.

Those who said that McKelvin's return ability made him the top rated CB were not necessarily denigrating McKelvin's ability to play CB, but, at worst, were saying that his ability as a return man was what broke the tie between him and DRC.

Now, of course, there are some, like DB, who will choose the guy who is bigger and the superior athlete as the one who has the greater "upside" or potential. And, it is hard to disagree with that. But, there are others who will prefer the guy who has played well in games and shown that he can be dominant against a higher level of competition. And, there are plenty of examples that can be used to support taking this approach as well.

With all due respect to DB and mystic, I loved what I saw of McKelvin and was delighted that the Bills were able to get him. It may take some time for him to develop, but I still think that he has the potential to become a top-level shutdown CB in the NFL.

Could DRC become a better player than McKelvin? Sure, with his athletic ability, it is certainly possible. Will DRC end up creating more turnovers than McKelvin and, therefore, get more attention from the likes of ESPN? Yes, I think that is likely. But, I think that ultimately McKelvin will get his hands on more third down passes and be more consistent in coverage than DRC.

I truly believe that both guys are going to be very, very good. I don't think that the Bills would have gone wrong taking either one of them with the 11th pick in the draft. Now, only time will tell, but I also think that it is way too early to make any judgements yet about which one will become the better CB in the NFL.

McKelvin got to camp late and is struggling right now, even though D.Whitner is trying to help him out. But, that doesn't mean very much. I saw D.Revis last year with the Jets and he didn't look very good early on, especially in the preseason. But, he came on as the season progressed. The same with A.Ross with the Giants, although Ross looked better sooner than Revis. Neither was the starter at the beginning of the season. But, both became a starter as the season went on and, by the end of the season, both looked pretty good. I think the same could well be the case with McKelvin, although McKelvin has better CBs ahead of him at both the starting CB position and the nickle position than either Revis or Ross did.

McKelvin hasn't even played a snap in the preseason in the NFL yet. Let's see where he is at the end of next season before we start making any judgements about whether he is good enough for the Bills to have drafted him when they did.

[baalworship]

Hardy as a tight end was the thing that jumped out from this report and I am surprised no one else commented on it.

Of course if Hardy gets used as a tight end in the game tonight I am sure there will be a new thread just for that.

[Goobylal]

Additionally, while both CBs played in D-1AA...
Excellent post. Just wanted to point out that Troy is D-1A.

And for anyone who thinks that a taller CB is better, the majority of Pro Bowl CB's the last 3-4 years have been 5'10" tall.