My postgame comments....

[OpIv37]

A little late, I know....


Given that it's only pre-season, and the first pre-season game at that, expectations need to be tempered. I went in simply hoping to see something to suggest that this team could be better than last year's. Instead, what I saw could have been a replay of any one of our losses from last year: an O that can't stay on the field and a D that can't get off the field (we lost the TOP battle 9:47 to 5:13 in the first quarter).

Let's start with the good. JP Losman, Ashton Youboty and Paul Posluzny all looked good.

Every other player either didn't show up at all or offset their good plays with bad ones. Moorman had one booming punt and one pathetic 38 yarder. Lindell made 2 FG's and looked good on kickoffs but also missed a FG (and those were the two guys I thought we didn't need to worry about). Parrish had two catches but two drops. Hardy had a TD catch but also ran the wrong wrote in the red zone, had a penalty, had a drop, and was out of position leading to an early TO. Spencer Johnson got some pressure on the QB (mostly from the DE spot) but got bowled over in the running game at DT.

On D, I was shocked to see our expensive new starting DT's getting shoved around in the running game. Stroud only played 1 or 2 series but was largely irrelevant. Williams, McCargo and Spencer Johnson were not effective at all against the run. Bryan Scott is useless and I seriously hope Wendling or Wilson can bump him down the depth chart. To be fair, McGee didn't play, Whitner didn't play and if Crowell was out there, it was very sparingly. However, getting those guys back won't help at the point of attack in the running game.

The first string offense was every bit as pathetic as it was last year. Other than a great grab by Parrish, they did nothing worth mentioning. Lynch only played one series and was running hard, but didn't get anywhere due to lackluster blocking. Kirk Chambers is completely out of his element and proved that this team needs Peters and Walker to be available and healthy to have any shot whatsoever. Edwards did not look confident and was trying to force the ball into check down routes, which were generally well-covered (possibly because the D was expecting it?).

On special teams, the kick coverage and return games looked solid but not dominant. McKelvin had some great returns.

Some of these problems can be chalked up to pre-season rust: false start penalties, rookie WR's running the wrong routes, etc. However, some of it is very disconcerting. Veteran WR's dropping passes, kickers/punters botching easy kicks, no blocking by the OL, the DL getting blown off the ball- these are talent issues that have me concerned.

A few other points:
-Edwards threw to Schouman at least twice but he was well covered each time. It was good to at least see that Edwards has confidence in him.
-I realize Hardy's a rookie, but he needs to get his head out of his ass. He made 3 at least 3 mental mistakes. Hopefully he'll learn from them and improve.
-I heard some people say that Edwards was staring down his receivers in camp. I only noticed him doing it once during the actual game.
-Derek Fine missed a block on the play where Losman was sacked, but I'm not sure that it mattered because Chambers got beat by the DE and Losman most likely would have been sacked anyway.
-McKelvin looked good on ST. I didn't notice him doing anything particularly good or bad on D.
-Dwayne Wright came in and fumbled. I thought "he just lost his roster spot to Xavier Omon." Omon came in the game... and promptly fumbled.

Finally, I've been avoiding this topic as much as possible but it's the proverbial 900 lb gorilla in the room. I was really hoping this JP vs Trent debate was over. My personal feeling on the issue is that both were pretty bad last year, but JP has had a lot more experience and opportunities than Trent, and he's done nothing with them. That means Trent has more potential and I liked the decision to go with him. However, JP clearly outplayed Trent on Saturday night. Granted, JP was playing against second stringers, but he was also playing with the 2nd string OL and only had one series with the 1st string WR's/TE's (and it wasn't the one where he threw the TD pass). Hopefully Trent steps it up because if this trend continues throughout pre-season, it's going to be tough for the coaches to go with Trent as the starter.

[BidsJr]

There is no 900lb gorilla in the room.

JP is what he always has been. It is way past time to move on.

[FlyingDutchman]

I respect the time and effort you took to write this OP, but how people can analyze this as anymore than a glorified practice is beyond me. Especially considering most starters played less than 15 plays, and there is no game plan whatsoever. I understand your desire to see improvement, but I dont understand how people can get worked up over this. Did anyone see how bad the Pats looked? Guess they're done for.

[OpIv37]

I respect the time and effort you took to write this OP, but how people can analyze this as anymore than a glorified practice is beyond me. Especially considering most starters played less than 15 plays, and there is no game plan whatsoever. I understand your desire to see improvement, but I dont understand how people can get worked up over this. Did anyone see how bad the Pats looked? Guess they're done for.

Things like false starts and running the wrong routes- those are preseason issues that can be fixed. The OL and the DL getting dominated in the trenches: those are talent issues that can't be fixed. I know we didn't game plan on O but neither did the Skins and that didn't stop them from shoving the ball down our throats. Those are the things that have me concerned.

My expectations were pretty low. I was just hoping to see one or two plays- or maybe one or two individual players- stand out and provide a reason for hope. But not one starter even did that, with the possible exception of Poz.

[OpIv37]

There is no 900lb gorilla in the room.

JP is what he always has been. It is way past time to move on.

I agree to a point.

But if the next three pre-seasons look like this one, where JP clearly outplays Trent, how can the coaching staff legitimately justify leaving Trent in there?

I've been largely avoiding the JP/Trent issue because I don't care- I just want the one who gives us the best chance to win to be on the field. I was hoping Trent would separate himself from JP but so far he hasn't done that.

[mysticsoto]

A reasonable analysis, Op. You forgot to mention the bad play that McKelvin did that led to Betts scoring a TD. I can't believe he jumped to the inside, when he actually had help coming behind him. He actually took his other man out of the play allowed that TD to occur. Yes, he's a rookie, but that was a boneheaded decision.

Other than that, alot was expected and I actually liked that alot of rookies got to play with 1st and 2nd stringers. They are easier to gauge. Hardy clearly made some route mistakes. That will no doubt be corrected long term. Same with Schouman - in fact, if Schouman had not stopped when he got into the endzone, he would have had a TD as TE threw it where he should have been and the ball would have hit him right in the chest had he continued. And his body would have blocked out others. Again, this was inexperience. I also liked that Corner played - which helped gauge him also. Youboty just might become the slot receiver if things continue as is.

But a troubling thing for me during this game was that, if the Dline can't get penetration and cause havoc...our speedy secondary will still get toasted. Cover 2 can do nothing without having a strong Dline...and we don't seem to have that. I know that Stroud played very little, but are we that dependent on him that w/o him there will be very little rush? Kelsay does seem faster, so I'm happy for that, but stopping the run is still a big issue that needs to be corrected.

Until the Bills get a dominant Dline, our cover 2 will still suck!!!

[BidsJr]

I agree to a point.

But if the next three pre-seasons look like this one, where JP clearly outplays Trent, how can the coaching staff legitimately justify leaving Trent in there?

I've been largely avoiding the JP/Trent issue because I don't care- I just want the one who gives us the best chance to win to be on the field. I was hoping Trent would separate himself from JP but so far he hasn't done that.

Rob Johnson looked great against backups too.

[hydro]

There are some things you mentioned that I definitely didn't see. I think you are making too much of Chambers, really. He did better than I had expected. Poz, well he didn't have a great game. He took some bad lines on a few runs. I might have to watch the re-air I DVR'd last night to see if I missed some of our observations.

[OpIv37]

There are some things you mentioned that I definitely didn't see. I think you are making too much of Chambers, really. He did better than I had expected. Poz, well he didn't have a great game. He took some bad lines on a few runs. I might have to watch the re-air I DVR'd last night to see if I missed some of our observations.

there was at least one play where Poz was out of position. But he also came up and made a tackle in the passing game after Corner got beat and had a few other solid tackles in there. Generally he was always getting in on the tackle.

As far as Chambers, he didn't seem to get any push and his footwork against speed rushes was terrible. That's what I saw anyway.

[justasportsfan]

BAltimore/Washington local news stations were saying that the redskins HC wasn't pulling any punches. Unlike GIbbs, he supposedly brought out the regular season playbook and was treating it like one.

Whether we were playing vanilla or using the game as a tryout for the team I don't know. BUt I wasn't impressed by the D at all. WE looked lost.

POz was underneath the pile in the redskins' run TD

[billsburgh]

What I saw from Marcus Stroud really concerned me. I'll I've read from camp so far is that this guy is a beast and has been dominating. All I saw from him on saturday night was him lookin like Tim Anderson and getting pushed back 5 yards. I hope it was just a matter of him not playing hard becuase it's only preseason. Also, if he's been that dominant in practice, what does that tell you about our O-line?

[hydro]

BAltimore/Washington local news stations were saying that the redskins HC wasn't pulling any punches. Unlike GIbbs, he supposedly brought out the regular season playbook and was treating it like one.

Whether we were playing vanilla or using the game as a tryout for the team I don't know. BUt I wasn't impressed by the D at all. WE looked lost.

POz was underneath the pile in the redskins' run TD

He didn't even budge Portis when he went in for the TD.

[justasportsfan]

He didn't even budge Portis when he went in for the TD.
He was busy fixing the grass .

I'm not worried though. Poz is hard on himself. He'll bounce back.

[feelthepain]

I respect the time and effort you took to write this OP, but how people can analyze this as anymore than a glorified practice is beyond me. Especially considering most starters played less than 15 plays, and there is no game plan whatsoever. I understand your desire to see improvement, but I dont understand how people can get worked up over this. Did anyone see how bad the Pats looked? Guess they're done for.

To be fair, had the Bills lit it up against the Redskins, you can bet your ass that wouldn't be the midset right now. You can't simply change your POV to get the most out of wins and loses. Sure it's early and sure no one can take the first pre seasons game results and make it an absolute.

However, trends are trends. If the Bills are showing the same signs they've shown the last two years (and from reading OP's break down, it does seem to be the same trends) it doesn't matter if it's the first pre season game or game 9 of the regular season. My issue with Juron is his losing history, the fact that when hired it wasn't cause he was at the top of a long list of tough choices, he was hired cause no one else wanted the Job for so little money IMO. This then goes back to an owner more worried about the bottom line then winning.

There's still a ways to go before the 08 season is offical, but OP knows what he see's cause he's a Bill fan and from reading what he wrote, it doesn't sound like he's just being whiner, it looks like a solid break down of the Bills Redskins game. Maybe others saw things differently, but by the reaction of the board it would seem OP is right on track.

Like I said it's still early and things will improve that's almost a guarantee, but trends are trends and I think that would and should be a concern for Bill fans.

[justasportsfan]

Like I said it's still early and things will improve that's almost a guarantee, but trends are trends and I think that would and should be a concern for Bill fans.
IF Trend are trends then you should be worried about the fins sucking.

[mybills]

POz was underneath the pile in the redskins' run TD

agree..and in defense of Wright, (not my favorite) he got his bell wrung, that's why he fumbled.

[mysticsoto]

agree..and in defense of Wright, (not my favorite) he got his bell wrung, that's why he fumbled.

He fumbled b'cse he was holding the ball on the wrong side. That's something he needs to correct!!!

[FlyingDutchman]

To be fair, had the Bills lit it up against the Redskins, you can bet your ass that wouldn't be the midset right now. You can't simply change your POV to get the most out of wins and loses. Sure it's early and sure no one can take the first pre seasons game results and make it an absolute.

However, trends are trends. If the Bills are showing the same signs they've shown the last two years (and from reading OP's break down, it does seem to be the same trends) it doesn't matter if it's the first pre season game or game 9 of the regular season. My issue with Juron is his losing history, the fact that when hired it wasn't cause he was at the top of a long list of tough choices, he was hired cause no one else wanted the Job for so little money IMO. This then goes back to an owner more worried about the bottom line then winning.

There's still a ways to go before the 08 season is offical, but OP knows what he see's cause he's a Bill fan and from reading what he wrote, it doesn't sound like he's just being whiner, it looks like a solid break down of the Bills Redskins game. Maybe others saw things differently, but by the reaction of the board it would seem OP is right on track.

Like I said it's still early and things will improve that's almost a guarantee, but trends are trends and I think that would and should be a concern for Bill fans.

My mindset wouldnt have changed that much had they done really well. Obviously it would make me feel better, but I wouldnt put too much stock in it. I understand what the preseason really is. I think OP made some good points as well, I just think its hard to accurately get a feel for these players progression from last year given the amount of playing time they actually received, and the little actual game preparation that goes into it. And im sorry, but trends are trends just doesnt apply to me in preseason.

[mybills]

He fumbled b'cse he was holding the ball on the wrong side.
that too. but did you see his head? I think he knocked out for a second there.

[DraftBoy]

Poz, I think will fix his positioning with time, he's only played in what two games so far?

The OL and DL are huge concerns for me though.

[raphael120]

He fumbled b'cse he was holding the ball on the wrong side. That's something he needs to correct!!!

I dont know man, I've seen Wright run the ball about 5 times, and 2 of those times he fumbled. Not cool.

[hydro]

I dont know man, I've seen Wright run the ball about 5 times, and 2 of those times he fumbled. Not cool.
Well yeah, that is why he needs to correct holding the ball where the tackler making impact ;)

[raphael120]

Well yeah, that is why he needs to correct holding the ball where the tackler making impact ;)

Lynch figured it out. Mendenhall figured it out. Fred Jackson figured it out. I just think he's not good enough. I've seen scrub RBs with less fumble issues than him.

[hydro]

Lynch figured it out. Mendenhall figured it out. Fred Jackson figured it out. I just think he's not good enough. I've seen scrub RBs with less fumble issues than him.

I am all for letting him go if Omon out performs him (although it sucks that we wasted the pick), which should be too hard from the looks of it.

[mysticsoto]

I am all for letting him go if Omon out performs him (although it sucks that we wasted the pick), which should be too hard from the looks of it.

It's still early, but regardless, I don't think either outperformed the other either in Saturday's came or in camp. Bruce Hall looked better in camp, but did nothing in the game...the next 3 games will decide who stays and who goes...atleast Wright showed flashes with his run. Changing where you place a ball can be coached into him if that's his only problem. I don't know if he has other issues (small hands, needing to develop arms more, etc).

[mybills]

Chris Brown on Wright
http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3801

[raphael120]

Chris Brown on Wright
http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3801
Well he sounds like a moron if he's now in his second year and doesn't know basic **** like that.

BTW, in other observations in the game...is it just me or does our whole "not hitting or tackling in camp" really show itself in games. We didn't look physical, most of the time the first tackler to the ball gets bowled over...

[Patti120]

What I saw from Marcus Stroud really concerned me. I'll I've read from camp so far is that this guy is a beast and has been dominating. All I saw from him on saturday night was him lookin like Tim Anderson and getting pushed back 5 yards. I hope it was just a matter of him not playing hard becuase it's only preseason. Also, if he's been that dominant in practice, what does that tell you about our O-line?

Not being able to juice can be a real PITA sometimes!!

[mybills]

Well he sounds like a moron if he's now in his second year and doesn't know basic **** like that.

BTW, in other observations in the game...is it just me or does our whole "not hitting or tackling in camp" really show itself in games. We didn't look physical, most of the time the first tackler to the ball gets bowled over...
It's prolly why he got his bell wrung.
It's not you. They need to change a lot of things in practice. :ill: