ESPN Camp Confidential

[Mudflap1]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=graham_tim&id=3531870

[feelthepain]

The Bills easily are the most overlooked team in the AFC East.
Nobody seems to remember the Bills were the second-best team in the division last year. Few recall that the Bills reinforced their most disconcerting issues, or that they welcome back an exciting nucleus of young players who are another season wiser

That's just poor reporting, they were second in the division by default, they had the worst offense and defense in the division and were under 500. I don't think you can look at finishing 2nd in our divsion as a positive when the only good team in our division happens to be the best team in football. Everyone else in the AFC east is just really bad right now and the only team that has hope to compete with NE is NY.

[SquishDaFish]

FTP your UNREAL bro!! :cry: WAHHHHH!!! Pop a titty in the mouth itll help!!

[MikeInRoch]

Poor reporting? Seems pretty factual to me.

Of course, maybe they think wins actually mean something.

[SyraBillsLican]

Actually, the Buffalo Bills were 18th in defense last year for scoring, well above the 30th dolphins....

unless you think yards are more important than points. i also heard that theyre going to change ranking systems for baseball from runs to hits, and for hockey from goals to shots.

its not fair that a team wins because of points! it should be based on yards!

[feelthepain]

Poor reporting? Seems pretty factual to me.

Of course, maybe they think wins actually mean something.

Yeah, if you're a playoff team.

It's amazing how Bill fans can sit there and tell everyone who will listen how you're "7 wins" are important, but your 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense mean nothing and have no rlelvance. Seems to me as long as it favors your argument it's an important stat, but if it doesn't support your argument...it has no importance.

[feelthepain]

Actually, the Buffalo Bills were 18th in defense last year for scoring, well above the 30th dolphins....

unless you think yards are more important than points. i also heard that theyre going to change ranking systems for baseball from runs to hits, and for hockey from goals to shots.

its not fair that a team wins because of points! it should be based on yards!

Well like so many Bill fans want to ignore, 7 wins don't get you any further then 1 win. So because you won six more games your team was in the same exact place the Dolphins and their one win were. At home watching the playoffs. Your 18th ranked scoring defense still didn't help your team win more then one game against an avg. team. Bill fans are so willing to accept credit their team doesn't really deserve becuase they would rather lie to themselves about what they really have then just face facts that the Bills are NOT a playoff team any more then the Dolphins are.

[SyraBillsLican]

and what about the fact 3 bills losses came against teams in the superbowl and two more came on last second 50 yard field goals?

[patmoran2006]

Tim Graham right?


He's a GREAT reporter.. You won't find a person in the business more unbiased than him.

[HAMMER]

1-15 FTP, 1-15. You can talk when you beat the Bills, which hasn't happened in a while.

[Philagape]

There is surely no more embarrassing, humiliating fact in all of sports than to be 0-4 against Dick's Bills.

[X-Era]

That's just poor reporting, they were second in the division by default, they had the worst offense and defense in the division and were under 500. I don't think you can look at finishing 2nd in our divsion as a positive when the only good team in our division happens to be the best team in football. Everyone else in the AFC east is just really bad right now and the only team that has hope to compete with NE is NY.

LOL, Fins fan slamming his own team... sweet

[patmoran2006]

There is surely no more embarrassing, humiliating fact in all of sports than to be 0-4 against Dick's Bills.
The Yankees hitting average with runners in scoring position is getting closer with each passing game though.

[feelthepain]

1-15 FTP, 1-15. You can talk when you beat the Bills, which hasn't happened in a while.

I can talk whenver I feel like it, the Bills were 7-9 not SB winners. On top of that, this site is loaded with threads about all the Bills problems and yet this thread is about the Bills "Stampede to the plyoffs," whatever!

[Mitchell55]

That's just poor reporting, they were second in the division by default, they had the worst offense and defense in the division and were under 500. I don't think you can look at finishing 2nd in our divsion as a positive when the only good team in our division happens to be the best team in football. Everyone else in the AFC east is just really bad right now and the only team that has hope to compete with NE is NY.




Yeah, buffalo was 7-9 with their backups and practice squad. Heres a easy math equation.


Bills practice squad > Miami, NYJ, Balt, Cinc, Was

[Mitchell55]

Yeah, if you're a playoff team.

It's amazing how Bill fans can sit there and tell everyone who will listen how you're "7 wins" are important, but your 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense mean nothing and have no rlelvance. Seems to me as long as it favors your argument it's an important stat, but if it doesn't support your argument...it has no importance.





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It slipped.

[feelthepain]

Yeah, buffalo was 7-9 with their backups and practice squad. Heres a easy math equation.


Bills practice squad > Miami, NYJ, Balt, Cinc, Was

They were 7-9 and had the same offensive and defensive ranking the year before too without all the injuries and more talent. And you your excuse is??

[Oaf]

Pretty lame article if you ask me. Just the 39th national reporter riding on this sensationalist media bandwagon that we're the "dark horse" of the league. I easily see playoffs in 2009 but can't see our offense getting us there this year without another draft and FA.

[Goobylal]

They were 7-9 and had the same offensive and defensive ranking the year before too without all the injuries and more talent. And you your excuse is??
I hope you're just trolling and not really this dense. If the Bills were healthy in 2006, Jauron's first season, and went 7-9, and then went 7-9 the following year despite loads of injuries, it stands to reason that had they not had the injuries, they would have won 2-3 more games, i.e. the closer ones.

[Stewie]

Yeah, if you're a playoff team.

It's amazing how Bill fans can sit there and tell everyone who will listen how you're "7 wins" are important, but your 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense mean nothing and have no rlelvance. Seems to me as long as it favors your argument it's an important stat, but if it doesn't support your argument...it has no importance.

Probably because wins are important and offensive/defensive statistics are meaningless. Just a guess.

[feelthepain]

Probably because wins are important and offensive/defensive statistics are meaningless. Just a guess.


Uh huh, any reason why you NEVER see a team with the 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense in the Playoffs much less the SB? Here's a clue...it has a lot to do with being awful.

[Stewie]

Uh huh, any reason why you NEVER see a team with the 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense in the Playoffs much less the SB? Here's a clue...it has a lot to do with being awful.

You're an idiot.

[Stewie]

Whoops that probably violates tos.

FTP, your verbal diarrhea reminds me of nick tahoes after 12 beers, shooting out of my ass at idiotic speeds and with no sense of decency.

[SquishDaFish]

Ignore the TROLL. Thats all he is. Put the idiot on IGNORE

[trapezeus]

i get the sense the FTP was that kid that liked getting beat up in school. he liked to say the stupidest things just to get beat down.

[feelthepain]

Struck a nerve? I point out a FACT, not an insult, one that no one seems to explain away with "BECAUSE WINS ARE ALL THAT MATTER" and all the excuses stop and the insults fly. Pretty typical here though, rather then just admitting wins only matter if you're a playoff team and who cares what you did if you didn't make the playoffs the ones that throw out the insults are clearly too immature to deal with the facts and are upset cause I'm right.

[justasportsfan]

Struck a nerve? I point out a FACT, not an insult, one that no one seems to explain away with "BECAUSE WINS ARE ALL THAT MATTER" and all the excuses stop and the insults fly..Fact 7-8 > 1-15.. :catfight:

[feelthepain]

Whoops that probably violates tos.

FTP, your verbal diarrhea reminds me of nick tahoes after 12 beers, shooting out of my ass at idiotic speeds and with no sense of decency.

And your immaturity reminds my of my 4 year old.

[Stewie]

And your immaturity reminds my of my 4 year old.

This does not compute. You have a 4 year old who is more mature than you are?

[feelthepain]

i get the sense the FTP was that kid that liked getting beat up in school. he liked to say the stupidest things just to get beat down.

Facts are stupid? Must be some Bill fan logic.

[feelthepain]

This does not compute. You have a 4 year old who is more mature than you are?

Well if you were anywhere near mature, it would compute.

[mayotm]

And your immaturity reminds my of my 4 year old.You have a four year old? It must be crowded down in your mom's basement.

[Goobylal]

Struck a nerve? I point out a FACT, not an insult, one that no one seems to explain away with "BECAUSE WINS ARE ALL THAT MATTER" and all the excuses stop and the insults fly. Pretty typical here though, rather then just admitting wins only matter if you're a playoff team and who cares what you did if you didn't make the playoffs the ones that throw out the insults are clearly too immature to deal with the facts and are upset cause I'm right.
LOL! It's a "fact" that wins and losses only matter if you're a playoff? Okay, whatever helps you accept your team's 1-15 record.

But why stop there? Why not say that record means nothing and all that counts is a SB win? So what if a playoff team has a good record, if they don't win it all (i.e. the Patriots)?

[feelthepain]

You have a four year old? It must be crowded down in your mom's basement.

Must be a commercial break in the Barney the Dinosaur show. K kiddies go back to watching Barney.

[trapezeus]

Facts are stupid? Must be some Bill fan logic.

i'm not sure anything you've said are facts. but i do like that from your perch over on the 1-15 tree that you think our forrest looks like it's burning down.

[justasportsfan]

i'm not sure anything you've said are facts. but i do like that from your perch over on the 1-15 tree that you think our forrest looks like it's burning down.
If you tell FTP 7-9 is better than 1-15 which is a fact, He comes back with the league standings and that 7-9 didn't make playoffs.

He doesn't want to compare 7-9 vs. 1-15 head to head because he would be forced to admit 7 wins is better than 1.

HIs fellow finfans think he's stupid. Please quote me so he can read this.

[Philagape]

Wins or stats ..... hmmmmmm ....

Which one determines how fans (well, most anyway) feel after a game?
Has there ever been a watercooler buzz like this: "Yes!! We lost but we had more yards!!"
Ever hear this cheery chant outside a stadium after a game? "We lost, who cares! More yards through the air!"

Maybe in Miami.

[hydro]

If you tell FTP 7-9 is better than 1-15 which is a fact, He comes back with the league standings and that 7-9 didn't make playoffs.

He doesn't want to compare 7-9 vs. 1-15 head to head because he would be forced to admit 7 wins is better than 1.

HIs fellow finfans think he's stupid. Please quote me so he can read this.

:up:

[trapezeus]

If you tell FTP 7-9 is better than 1-15 which is a fact, He comes back with the league standings and that 7-9 didn't make playoffs.

He doesn't want to compare 7-9 vs. 1-15 head to head because he would be forced to admit 7 wins is better than 1.

HIs fellow finfans think he's stupid. Please quote me so he can read this.

i'd be interested to know where the giants offense and defense ranked when compared to the Pats and the other teams that they were simply better than.I'd also be interested in how many superbowl teams have been ranked 1 on both offense and defense. I think the teams just want to win.

You could, FTP, try and flip this on me by saying, "yeah, but the giants record was worse and they were the better team" however,the giants beat the teams they had to beat. The dolphins never beat the bills. and as bad as you want to knock us, what does that say for the dolphins who couldn't grab the win? The dolphins got lucky the season ended after 16 games and taht the ravens took that weekend off.

Luckily this year, you don't have to play in the snow when you play us in december. hopefully that's the advantage you need.

[yordad]

FTP, we played you. We spanked you. Check that under the facts column.

[feelthepain]

i'd be interested to know where the giants offense and defense ranked when compared to the Pats and the other teams that they were simply better than.I'd also be interested in how many superbowl teams have been ranked 1 on both offense and defense. I think the teams just want to win.

You could, FTP, try and flip this on me by saying, "yeah, but the giants record was worse and they were the better team" however,the giants beat the teams they had to beat. The dolphins never beat the bills. and as bad as you want to knock us, what does that say for the dolphins who couldn't grab the win? The dolphins got lucky the season ended after 16 games and taht the ravens took that weekend off.

Luckily this year, you don't have to play in the snow when you play us in december. hopefully that's the advantage you need.

Still doesn't change the fact that having the 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense is not good...at all! It's why you don't make the palyoffs, the Bills were simply lucky to win 7 games last year, no matter how much Bill fans hate to hear it.

[justasportsfan]

i'd be interested to know where the giants offense and defense ranked when compared to the Pats and the other teams that they were simply better than.I'd also be interested in how many superbowl teams have been ranked 1 on both offense and defense. I think the teams just want to win.

.
been there done that. He won't reply to that . The colts was ranked 32 against the run when they won the sb a couple of years ago.

[justasportsfan]

Still doesn't change the fact that having the 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense is not good...at all! It's why you don't make the palyoffs, the Bills were simply lucky to win 7 games last year, no matter how much Bill fans hate to hear it.
I told you trap. He won't touch 7-9 vs. 1-15 head on.

[Goobylal]

I told you trap. He won't touch 7-9 vs. 1-15 head on.
It's obvious he'll use whatever worthless stats he wants to try and cover-up the fact that his team was horrible, and will be horrible again this year.

[MikeInRoch]

You are what your record says you are
- Bill Parcells. I'll take his word over FTP's.

[hydro]

- Bill Parcells. I'll take his word over FTP's.

It is going to be hard for FTP to discredit a guy that is running his favorite team. But he will try I am sure.

[Mitchell55]

Still doesn't change the fact that having the 30th ranked offense and 31st ranked defense is not good...at all! It's why you don't make the palyoffs, the Bills were simply lucky to win 7 games last year, no matter how much Bill fans hate to hear it.





How were we lucky to win 7 games? Alot of the teams we beat, werent close. Mia, Jets, Balt, Cinci.

Jets- 17-14. If you watched it, you would realize it wasnt that close.

Miami- 38-17

Cinci- 33-21

Jets- 13-3

Balt- 19-14 The score doesnt show the game. Alot of the reason the scores seem close is our end of game slump. We seem to not play hard when winning at the end of a game.

[Mitchell55]

It is going to be hard for FTP to discredit a guy that is running his favorite team. But he will try I am sure.




I like that we have FTP because it gives us someone else to bash other than our own team and QB. If it werent for FTP we would be bashing Losman, others Edwards and others the whole team.

[ublinkwescore]

Struck a nerve? I point out a FACT, not an insult, one that no one seems to explain away with "BECAUSE WINS ARE ALL THAT MATTER" and all the excuses stop and the insults fly. Pretty typical here though, rather then just admitting wins only matter if you're a playoff team and who cares what you did if you didn't make the playoffs the ones that throw out the insults are clearly too immature to deal with the facts and are upset cause I'm right.

I'm starting to wonder if he's not a Bills fan's alter ego and he's just here for our personal entertainment or to rattle some cages.

[feelthepain]

How were we lucky to win 7 games? Alot of the teams we beat, werent close. Mia, Jets, Balt, Cinci.

Jets- 17-14. If you watched it, you would realize it wasnt that close.

Miami- 38-17

Cinci- 33-21

Jets- 13-3

Balt- 19-14 The score doesnt show the game. Alot of the reason the scores seem close is our end of game slump. We seem to not play hard when winning at the end of a game.


The teams that are good have good statistics, the teams that are bad have bad statistics. That's it, that's all. You can have any opinion you like and say whatever you want, your view will not change that simple fact, it is what it is.

I dare any Bill fan here to find one good team in the history of any sport that was good when they produced the next to last overall staistics in the offenesive and defensive sides of the game....any sport you wish.

[justasportsfan]

The teams that are good have good statistics, the teams that are bad have bad statistics. That's it, that's all..
good teams have good records while stinking teams have 1-15.

[Mitchell55]

The teams that are good have good statistics, the teams that are bad have bad statistics. That's it, that's all. You can have any opinion you like and say whatever you want, your view will not change that simple fact, it is what it is.

I dare any Bill fan here to find one good team in the history of any sport that was good when they produced the next to last overall staistics in the offenesive and defensive sides of the game....any sport you wish.





Well then the bills would of been the 1st if they even tried to win the last 2 games.

[feelthepain]

Well then the bills would of been the 1st if they even tried to win the last 2 games.

And the Dolphis would have been 7-9 had they won the 6 games they lost by 3 points or less. The simple fact is 1 win 7 wins it's simply just bad football. The Bill fans think they would have won more games had they had less injuries, I don't think so. The Bills coaching staff is why the Bills are what they are.

[Dr. Lecter]

And the Dolphis would have been 7-9 had they won the 6 games they lost by 3 points or less. The simple fact is 1 win 7 wins it's simply just bad football. The Bill fans think they would have won more games had they had less injuries, I don't think so. The Bills coaching staff is why the Bills are what they are.

If you give the Dolphins the games they lost by 3 or less, do the Bills get credit for two more wins as well? After all they lost two games by 3 or less points

AS for the injury part if you can't understand that a team losing 17 players to injuries makes them worse, I really don't know what to say.

[trapezeus]

been there done that. He won't reply to that . The colts was ranked 32 against the run when they won the sb a couple of years ago.

FTP, you asked for it, you got it. Colts seemed to put up some paltry numbers as provided by Justa, yet crowned champions.

also, you can complain all you want about the bills being 30 and 31 in O and D, yet the only reason they aren't 32 and 32 is because they are playing the dolphins 2 times a year.

[feelthepain]

If you give the Dolphins the games they lost by 3 or less, do the Bills get credit for two more wins as well? After all they lost two games by 3 or less points

AS for the injury part if you can't understand that a team losing 17 players to injuries makes them worse, I really don't know what to say.

Give the Bills whatever you want I could care less, it doesn't change what is. As for your "17" injuries, you had more talent on defense in 06 and your team didn't have "17" injuries and your wins and statistics were the same. Also those "17" injuries, were all on Defense, your offense was basically healthy. You can make whatever excuse you need to make to help you sleep at night, but the fact is the Bills were the exact same team the last two years injured or healthy. And I know it's been just one preseason game, but the Bills looked exactly the same against the Redskins.

[SquishDaFish]

You are not the brightest lightbulb on the Xmas tree are you FTP. Wins are the ONLY thing that matters. Stats are for fantasy and Pro Bowls thats it PERIOD!! We won 7 your ****ty team won 1!! And they were lucky to have 1. :roflmao: Your team is PATHETIC!!

[justasportsfan]

you guys don't get it. In a sb game or any game , the score does not matter in FTP's world.It's not about who wins but who has the better stats.

[feelthepain]

FTP, you asked for it, you got it. Colts seemed to put up some paltry numbers as provided by Justa, yet crowned champions.

also, you can complain all you want about the bills being 30 and 31 in O and D, yet the only reason they aren't 32 and 32 is because they are playing the dolphins 2 times a year.

Well my guess is some people simply can't read, not a surprise considering who it was. Go back and read it again, I said,


I dare any Bill fan here to find one good team in the history of any sport that was good when they produced the next to last overall staistics in the offenesive and defensive sides of the game....any sport you wish.

And if the fact that the Colts had the number one offense in the league take them completely out of that running, I believe that was the season Peyton broke Marino's TD record. Kinda not the same thing as the 30th ranked offense in the league is it??

[feelthepain]

You are not the brightest lightbulb on the Xmas tree are you FTP. Wins are the ONLY thing that matters. Stats are for fantasy and Pro Bowls thats it PERIOD!! We won 7 your ****ty team won 1!! And they were lucky to have 1. :roflmao: Your team is PATHETIC!!

Much brighter then any of the homer Bill lightbulbs that think this Bills team is any good at all. And the Bills are also pathetic!!!