Why Jauron will never win in this league

[OpIv37]

Ultra-conservatism and not practicing.

In 2007, the Bills were the only team that did not score a TD in the last 2:00 of a game or half.

We had 2 timeouts (because it wouldn't be a Jauron team if we didn't waste a timeout early in the half) and got the ball back with 1:12 left. What does Jauron do? Two straight ****ing draw plays.

We have a 17-0 lead in a ****ing preseason game. There is no better time to practice the 2:00 drill because no bad can come of it. But instead, he pulls the same **** that we pulled late in halfs all year last year. He didn't even take the opportunity to practice.

But, I guess all our young, inexperienced guys are going to get better by not practicing, right? :rolleyes:

[justasportsfan]

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walker is unjured. no need to add more injuries running a 2 min drill in a useless preseason game

[Meathead]

a little over the top but i generally agree

why not take the oppty for some two min drill practice. knucklehead

[OpIv37]

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walker is unjured. no need to add more injuries running a 2 min drill in a useless preseason game

well, either you take a chance at being injured or take a guarantee at not being prepared to do it once the real games start.

The ultra conservative coach takes the guarantee.

[Dr. Lecter]

I agree I would have liked to see them be more agressive, but this a tad little bit of an Op over-reaction.

[justasportsfan]

well, either you take a chance at being injured or take a guarantee at not being prepared to do it once the real games start.

The ultra conservative coach takes the guarantee.
top starters are dropping like flies this weekend. No need to add more to the list. I hate Jaurons conservativeness during games but he chose the right time to be conservative this time.

[Nighthawk]

I agree I would have liked to see them be more agressive, but this a tad little bit of an Op over-reaction.

It's really not an overreaction if it consistently happens. This is why Dickey is a loser as a HC. Until he proves otherwise, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.

[OpIv37]

I agree I would have liked to see them be more agressive, but this a tad little bit of an Op over-reaction.

yeah. It was an overreaction when I:

-complained about the skipped session in OTA's
-complained about the lack of 2-a-days in camp and the general Club Jauron feel
-complained about the lack of work that Trent got in the first preseason game (now that he's injured and getting ZERO work in this game, suddenly it seems even more important)
-complained about missing the opportunity to practice on an aspect of our team that was embarrassingly bad.

All of this is part of a larger trend: the team not being ready early in the season. The team isn't prepared to do certain things and it shows on the field. On top of that, we have a young team and you've said yourself that we're depending on "experience" and "player improvement"- well, if we're skipping practices and passing on these opportunities, where the hell is that experience and improvement supposed to come from?

[patmoran2006]

I like the way we shut it down.


Its 17-0 on the road and you're dominating, why risk a major mistake to let Indy back in the game before the half at home.

[Nighthawk]

top starters are dropping like flies this weekend. No need to add more to the list. I hate Jaurons conservativeness during games but he chose the right time to be conservative this time.

Your logic makes no sense. So you're saying that the 2 minute drill causes more injuries????

[justasportsfan]

Your logic makes no sense. So you're saying that the 2 minute drill causes more injuries????
it could. People can get lost and wreckless.

dick has tp be smart about being consrvative and this was one of them

[Nighthawk]

it could. People can get lost and wreckless

Are you serious or are you just messing with me? Please tell me your just messing with me!

[justasportsfan]

Are you serious or are you just messing with me? Please tell me your just messing with me!
no I'm not.

[Dr. Lecter]

yeah. It was an overreaction when I:

-complained about the skipped session in OTA's
-complained about the lack of 2-a-days in camp and the general Club Jauron feel
-complained about the lack of work that Trent got in the first preseason game (now that he's injured and getting ZERO work in this game, suddenly it seems even more important)
-complained about missing the opportunity to practice on an aspect of our team that was embarrassingly bad.

All of this is part of a larger trend: the team not being ready early in the season. The team isn't prepared to do certain things and it shows on the field. On top of that, we have a young team and you've said yourself that we're depending on "experience" and "player improvement"- well, if we're skipping practices and passing on these opportunities, where the hell is that experience and improvement supposed to come from?


(Or when you went nuts about them drafting Edwards? )

And yet, despite not being ready they are winning 17-0.

I realize it is pre-season, but does that mean a damn thing to you? Or the fact that they have had 90+ yard drives for two consecutive weeks? Ot that the offense looks totally different from last year with actual originality in the scheme and play calling?

I guess it really does not. You get as picky as you can and go out of your way to say ANYTHING positive.

And that ONE skipped session is meaningless. Do you really think it is not? (BTW, you also essentially guarenteed skipped practices and they cancelled none).

Oh look, JP is injured. Maybe that is why they did not go nuts at the end of the half. I guess they should have so he was injured even more!

[mikemac2001]

JP was hurt ass

[justasportsfan]

(Or when you went nuts about them drafting Edwards? )

And yet, despite not being ready they are winning 17-0.

I realize it is pre-season, but does that mean a damn thing to you? Or the fact that they have had 90+ yard drives for two consecutive weeks? Ot that the offense looks totally different from last year with actual originality in the scheme and play calling?

I guess it really does not. You get as picky as you can and go out of your way to say ANYTHING positive.

And that ONE skipped session is meaningless. Do you really think it is not? (BTW, you also essentially guarenteed skipped practices and they cancelled none).

Oh look, JP is injured. Maybe that is why they did not go nuts at the end of the half. I guess they should have so he was injured even more!for someone who said this, it's an overreaction

Per V text.

Why even bother playing at this point? No Peters, no Edwards, and a bunch of no-name receivers. I can't imagine it's even good practice at this point. And this is the game where the starters usually play the whole first half.

[OpIv37]

(Or when you went nuts about them drafting Edwards? )

And yet, despite not being ready they are winning 17-0.

I realize it is pre-season, but does that mean a damn thing to you? Or the fact that they have had 90+ yard drives for two consecutive weeks? Ot that the offense looks totally different from last year with actual originality in the scheme and play calling?

I guess it really does not. You get as picky as you can and go out of your way to say ANYTHING positive.

And that ONE skipped session is meaningless. Do you really think it is not? (BTW, you also essentially guarenteed skipped practices and they cancelled none).

Oh look, JP is injured. Maybe that is why they did not go nuts at the end of the half. I guess they should have so he was injured even more!

with a team this young and inexperienced, ANY missed practice is detrimental.

Yeah, why bother playing? Someone may get hurt, so we have to give up what may be our ONLY opportunity to practice this in a game-like situation. That's cowardly.

[Novacane]

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walker is unjured. no need to add more injuries running a 2 min drill in a useless preseason game



true but I doubt DJ woulda gone for it in a real game either. We've seen it a number of times.

[Dr. Lecter]

with a team this young and inexperienced, ANY missed practice is detrimental.

Yeah, why bother playing? Someone may get hurt, so we have to give up what may be our ONLY opportunity to practice this in a game-like situation. That's cowardly.

Maybe they should run triple sessions every day.

We have been over this countless times - It was an award for progressing. There is nothing wrong with positive re-inforcement.

[OpIv37]

Maybe they should run triple sessions every day.

We have been over this countless times - It was an award for progressing. There is nothing wrong with positive re-inforcement.

there are other forms of positive reinforcement. Wanting players to practice does not automatically mean I'm fundamentally opposed to positive reinforcement, so don't use that weak argument technique.

[jmb1099]

sorry boys, but I'd rather be conservative in preseason rather than lose a top tier player like the giants did, but that's just me

[OpIv37]

sorry boys, but I'd rather be conservative in preseason rather than lose a top tier player like the giants did, but that's just me

then why even put the top tier players on the field? Those guys were on the field for those two chicken-**** draw plays. They just as easily could have been injured doing that as they could have running the 2 minute drill.

That logic just makes no sense. You'd rather GUARANTEE that the team isn't ready to run the 2 min drill than practice the drill because of the outside chance at an injury? Please.

[MikeInRoch]

Because not running it ONE time guarantees that. I'm sure that one time will make ALL the difference.

[ddaryl]

what can anyone say... Some people are just chronic *****es

[OpIv37]

Because not running it ONE time guarantees that. I'm sure that one time will make ALL the difference.

what other chance will they EVER have to practice it in a game-like situation? The starters will be long gone by 2:00 in the first half of the last preseason game.

Practicing it once is better than not practicing at all, and Jauron blew the ONLY chance he had.

[OpIv37]

what can anyone say... Some people are just chronic *****es

because some coaches are just chronic failures and chronically make the same mistakes.

[User Manuel]

Wouldn't this statement carry some more impact after a Bills loss where we COULDNT run the ball or play defense.

I am just saying.

[OpIv37]

Wouldn't this statement carry some more impact after a Bills loss where we COULDNT run the ball or play defense.

I am just saying.

the point is that even as Jauron progresses in some areas, he still continues to make the same stupid mistakes in other areas.

[The Spaz]

We won and I am happy.

[HHURRICANE]

I agree with OP that we need as much preparation as possible considering last year we never scored a TD in the last two minutes of either half all year. READ THAT AGAIN.

If Edwards and Hardy had been in the lineup than I would have ripped Jauron this AM over it. Without them I think it was somewhat irrelevant.

[OpIv37]

We won and I am happy.

I'm happy that we won too, and since it's preseason, I'm more concerned with the starters looking good, which they did.

However, I see stuff like this and I can't help but wonder how many wins could possibly be in our future with Jauron holding us back.

[Dr. Lecter]

With how much the offense has changed from last year and a new OC in charge, I would like to see what happens in regular season when the QB does not have an injured thumb before we pass judgement.

[madness]

Time outs mean **** in preaseason. I've seen preseason games this year where coaches have burned up all three before halfway through the 2nd quarter.

[Philagape]

If JP's thumb was aggravated, then it was absolutely the right call. You don't mess with injuries in the preseason under any circumstances.

[The Spaz]

If JP's thumb was aggravated, then it was absolutely the right call. You don't mess with injuries in the preseason under any circumstances.

It was an injury had had it wrapped with ice on it.

[OpIv37]

Time outs mean **** in preaseason. I've seen preseason games this year where coaches have burned up all three before halfway through the 2nd quarter.

except that Jauron teams have a habit of blowing TO's early in games or halves. It would be nice to see them PRACTICE not doing that, since that's what the preseason is for.

[OpIv37]

If JP's thumb was aggravated, then it was absolutely the right call. You don't mess with injuries in the preseason under any circumstances.

then why put JP on the field at all just to hand the ball off twice? If his injury was bad enough that he couldn't throw the ball, he shouldn't have even been on the field. The injury occurred on a hand-off. If he's injured and they're trying to avoid further injury, it's stupid to put him out there to do the exact same thing that got him injured in the first place.

[madness]

except that Jauron teams have a habit of blowing TO's early in games or halves. It would be nice to see them PRACTICE not doing that, since that's what the preseason is for.

I agree that it would be nice to see, but it will never happen. Coaches #1 priority in preseason games are evaluating their full roster, to see how they do in a live game situation and unfortunately there's not a lot of time for anything else.

[HAMMER]

Op has to find something to scream about, always.

[justasportsfan]

true but I doubt DJ woulda gone for it in a real game either. We've seen it a number of times.
and I have a problem with this. Not during a preseason game.

[justasportsfan]

then why even put the top tier players on the field? Those guys were on the field for those two chicken-**** draw plays. They just as easily could have been injured doing that as they could have running the 2 minute drill.

That logic just makes no sense. You'd rather GUARANTEE that the team isn't ready to run the 2 min drill than practice the drill because of the outside chance at an injury? Please.
you said it yourself. No Trent, no Parrish,etc so why bother even playing or to be more specific, why bother running the 2 minute drill?

[jmb1099]

then why even put the top tier players on the field? Those guys were on the field for those two chicken-**** draw plays. They just as easily could have been injured doing that as they could have running the 2 minute drill.

That logic just makes no sense. You'd rather GUARANTEE that the team isn't ready to run the 2 min drill than practice the drill because of the outside chance at an injury? Please.
LOL!!! Seriously, get a grip.
While I agree with your position on the players being injured at anytime, anyone with any sense at all can figure out that the probability for injury significantly increases when the tension and intensity is ratcheted up. The place to perfect the two minute drill is in practice.
As far as a GUARANTEE is concerned (and I'm still laughing over this) I GUARANTEE if we did run the two minute drill aggressively, and a key player was lost, you'd be the first to start a thread about why Jauron will never win in this league because his over aggressive coaching style during a meaningless preseason game cost us key players.

Anyway... back to sanity

[raphael120]

sorry boys, but I'd rather be conservative in preseason rather than lose a top tier player like the giants did, but that's just me

Most of our starters were out at that point anyways, I don't think the red zone offense would mean jack considering:

1. It's JP,

2. Lynch aint in,

3. our starting WRs arent all in (Hardy also).

I didn't have a problem with it, I liked the play calls earlier in the game (when there was a game) and I think Jauron was happy with what he saw thus far (as was many Bills fans, I'm sure).

[OpIv37]

LOL!!! Seriously, get a grip.
While I agree with your position on the players being injured at anytime, anyone with any sense at all can figure out that the probability for injury significantly increases when the tension and intensity is ratcheted up. The place to perfect the two minute drill is in practice.
As far as a GUARANTEE is concerned (and I'm still laughing over this) I GUARANTEE if we did run the two minute drill aggressively, and a key player was lost, you'd be the first to start a thread about why Jauron will never win in this league because his over aggressive coaching style during a meaningless preseason game cost us key players.

Anyway... back to sanity

if the place to practice the 2 min drill is practice, why were we the WORST team in the league at it last year? You're suggesting doing the same thing that didn't work last year and expecting different results.

And you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about your guarantee. I am so ****ing sick of Jauron taking the safe route. If we lose a key player working on a key element of the game, that's what happens in sports. At least in that circumstance he'd be trying to improve the team. Instead, he always plays it safe and it never works.

[Ebenezer]

if the place to practice the 2 min drill is practice, why were we the WORST team in the league at it last year? You're suggesting doing the same thing that didn't work last year and expecting different results.

And you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about your guarantee. I am so ****ing sick of Jauron taking the safe route. If we lose a key player working on a key element of the game, that's what happens in sports. At least in that circumstance he'd be trying to improve the team. Instead, he always plays it safe and it never works.
they could run 4 offensive plays a quarter...I don't care as long as they win...

but you go ahead with your weekly rant...

[mayotm]

if the place to practice the 2 min drill is practice, why were we the WORST team in the league at it last year? You're suggesting doing the same thing that didn't work last year and expecting different results.

And you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about your guarantee. I am so ****ing sick of Jauron taking the safe route. If we lose a key player working on a key element of the game, that's what happens in sports. At least in that circumstance he'd be trying to improve the team. Instead, he always plays it safe and it never works.I admit, I was a bit annoyed at first. However, that was before I realized JP had just banged up his thumb again. What value does running the two minute offense with Hamden or Baker provide? I don't think it provides much value.

[OpIv37]

they could run 4 offensive plays a quarter...I don't care as long as they win...

but you go ahead with your weekly rant...

because what you fail to understand is that we won't be winning too many games if we continually pass on opportunities to practice problem spots. At some point this season, we will be forced to run a 2 minute drill and the inability to do it could cost us a REAL game.

It's short sighted to always live in the moment, especially when the moment is only preseason.

[OpIv37]

I admit, I was a bit annoyed at first. However, that was before I realized JP had just banged up his thumb again. What value does running the two minute offense with Hamden or Baker provide? I don't think it provides much value.

This is my question: if JP's hand was so bad, why did they put him in there just to hand the ball off? Hamdan or Baker could have handled that. If he's hurt, keep him out. If he can play, let him play the full game. But if he can't throw, then don't put him in there at all.

[Ebenezer]

because what you fail to understand is that we won't be winning too many games if we continually pass on opportunities to practice problem spots. At some point this season, we will be forced to run a 2 minute drill and the inability to do it could cost us a REAL game.

It's short sighted to always live in the moment, especially when the moment is only preseason.
you just hit on the key...what good is it doing a two minute drill in preseason against a vanilla offense? I don't ever remember Kelly or Reich running a two minute drill or the hurryup offense in preseason.

[Ebenezer]

This is my question: if JP's hand was so bad, why did they put him in there just to hand the ball off? Hamdan or Baker could have handled that. If he's hurt, keep him out. If he can play, let him play the full game. But if he can't throw, then don't put him in there at all.
Adrenaline. Haven't we seen guys with ripped ACL's walk off the field with no help?

[OpIv37]

you just hit on the key...what good is it doing a two minute drill in preseason against a vanilla offense? I don't ever remember Kelly or Reich running a two minute drill or the hurryup offense in preseason.

when this team starts setting offensive records and making it deep into the playoffs, THEN you can compare them to Kelly and Reich.

Last year they set a record for futility in the 2 minute drill. They need the practice. Preseason games may be "vanilla", but at least it's full speed and full contact.

[Ebenezer]

when this team starts setting offensive records and making it deep into the playoffs, THEN you can compare them to Kelly and Reich.

Last year they set a record for futility in the 2 minute drill. They need the practice. Preseason games may be "vanilla", but at least it's full speed and full contact.
Hate to burst your bubble....the Bills unveiled the no huddle for the first time in a Regular season game against the Colts. Nobody outside the team knew anything about it. If I remember correctly, they never even practiced it in training camp.

[OpIv37]

Hate to burst your bubble....the Bills unveiled the no huddle for the first time in a Regular season game against the Colts. Nobody outside the team knew anything about it. If I remember correctly, they never even practiced it in training camp.

You're still comparing apples and oranges. The 2 minute drill is something the offense has PROVEN they can't do, so they need to practice it. The no-huddle was a new strategy that had yet to be tested.

[justasportsfan]

You're still comparing apples and oranges. The 2 minute drill is something the offense has PROVEN they can't do, so they need to practice it. The no-huddle was a new strategy that had yet to be tested.
it's a secret weapon that Turk will unvail if needed in regular season.

[Mr. Pink]

I like Op kinda agree...

With the situation, the fact the game was meaningless in the W-L column, it's the right time to practice how well your two minute offense can perform in a "game environment."

However since we weren'y playing all the actual starters on offense I'm not as upset that this wasn't done.

It still woulda be nice to see though.

[jmb1099]

if the place to practice the 2 min drill is practice, why were we the WORST team in the league at it last year? You're suggesting doing the same thing that didn't work last year and expecting different results.

And you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about your guarantee. I am so ****ing sick of Jauron taking the safe route. If we lose a key player working on a key element of the game, that's what happens in sports. At least in that circumstance he'd be trying to improve the team. Instead, he always plays it safe and it never works.

We were the worst team in many categories last year with so many more variables but you know that so I'm not going to rehash for the 1000th time. There are also many reasons why we have the potential be better this year but you know that too so again no need to rehash

And as far as my guarantee is concerned you are almost ABSOLUTELY the first poster to register complaints about Jauron. You would have had a cow had we played a meaningless game aggressively if it ended with Hardy, or Evans breaking a leg. You most definitely would have started a thread about it and the proof of that is in the title of thread we're in now. You could have said Jauron too conservative or anything else, but instead you chose NEVER win... its your opinion and you're entitled to it and you might even be right... but your obvious dislike for the guy would have fueled such a thread.

Now, the truth is that Jauron has not always played it safe. In fact, not playing it safe cost us the Denver game... its one example, but it is what it is

[OpIv37]

We were the worst team in many categories last year with so many more variables but you know that so I'm not going to rehash for the 1000th time. There are also many reasons why we have the potential be better this year but you know that too so again no need to rehash

And as far as my guarantee is concerned you are almost ABSOLUTELY the first poster to register complaints about Jauron. You would have had a cow had we played a meaningless game aggressively if it ended with Hardy, or Evans breaking a leg. You most definitely would have started a thread about it and the proof of that is in the title of thread we're in now. You could have said Jauron too conservative or anything else, but instead you chose NEVER win... its your opinion and you're entitled to it and you might even be right... but your obvious dislike for the guy would have fueled such a thread.

Now, the truth is that Jauron has not always played it safe. In fact, not playing it safe cost us the Denver game... its one example, but it is what it is

You get better with practice. Period. Particularly with a young team. And Jauron finds every ****ing excuse possible to not practice.

You're assuming things about me that you can't possibly know. I would have absolutely given Jauron the benefit of the doubt if he had run the 2 min drill and someone got hurt. That's a hypothetical that DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAPPEN and you're GUESSING at what my reaction would be.

What did actually happen was that JAURON PASSED ON AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRACTICE A HUGE PROBLEM SPOT. You're arguing my tone and my biases rather than the actual point.

And there's one reason and one reason only why I have a problem with Jauron: LOSING. His record in Chicago was horrendous and his record here is mediocre. And he keeps doing the same things over and over again. Or, to say it simply: I keep complaining about Jauron because he keeps providing valid reasons for complaints.

But you have no point. You're arguing a hypothetical reaction that I may or may not have had to a situation that didn't actually occur, which is beyond ridiculous. And you're arguing my biases which I readily admit.

So, tell me this:

How are we going to get better by not practicing something simply because it may or may not result in an injury? If JP's hand was injured, what was he doing on the field?

If you want to keep guessing my reaction to situations that never occurred, don't bother because I have no interest in continuing that meaningless conversation.

[alohabillsfan]

OP you started this thread last night around 9ish stopped posting at 11pm-ish, started again at 8am and it's now after 6pm and your still at it... Get help man, get help!
P.S. Jauron has won in this league!

[alohabillsfan]

P.S. I believe if you look at history the QB makes a coach... With a few exceptions. Belichek looks pretty pedestrian without Tom under center.

[OpIv37]

OP you started this thread last night around 9ish stopped posting at 11pm-ish, started again at 8am and it's now after 6pm and your still at it... Get help man, get help!
P.S. Jauron has won in this league!

your definition of "winning" is suspect. Jauron has 1 winning season out of 7. His overall record is 50-67. That's not my definition of "winning."

[Ebenezer]

You're still comparing apples and oranges. The 2 minute drill is something the offense has PROVEN they can't do, so they need to practice it. The no-huddle was a new strategy that had yet to be tested.
something you know doesn't work = zero
something you never tried before and don't know if it will work = zero

how did you ever pass logic? :shakeno:

[shelby]

Op should write a weekly column for the front page: "Op's Weekly Rant".
That would be freaking epic.

[Mr. Pink]

I agree Shelby...

MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[Ebenezer]

Op should write a weekly column for the front page: "Op's Weekly Rant".
That would be freaking epic.
you could just rerun the same rant 17 times...change the score and the record each week.

[OpIv37]

something you know doesn't work = zero
something you never tried before and don't know if it will work = zero

how did you ever pass logic? :shakeno:

something you never tried before and don't know it will work has at least SOME POSSIBILITY of working.

Something you know doesn't work has ZERO possibility of working.

SOME is more than NONE.

My logic is just fine. Yours is just a little bit off, as is your math.

[OpIv37]

you could just rerun the same rant 17 times...change the score and the record each week.

that's not my fault. That's Jauron's and the rest of the teams' fault for making the same mistakes 17 weeks in a row (well, 16 out of 17- can't hold the bye against them).

[evol4276]

you confuse me op.. are u 13?

[VeggieMan14]

that's not my fault. That's Jauron's and the rest of the teams' fault for making the same mistakes 17 weeks in a row (well, 16 out of 17- can't hold the bye against them).nuh uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh:nono: its JP and trent edwards fault :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

you confuse me op.. are u 13?

huh?

Eb was saying I make the same rant every week.

Well, in case no one bothered to notice, my rants are indirectly correlated to the Bills' performance on the field. Start performing, and the rants will stop.

[jmb1099]

You get better with practice. Period. Particularly with a young team. And Jauron finds every ****ing excuse possible to not practice.

You're assuming things about me that you can't possibly know. I would have absolutely given Jauron the benefit of the doubt if he had run the 2 min drill and someone got hurt. That's a hypothetical that DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAPPEN and you're GUESSING at what my reaction would be.

What did actually happen was that JAURON PASSED ON AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRACTICE A HUGE PROBLEM SPOT. You're arguing my tone and my biases rather than the actual point.

And there's one reason and one reason only why I have a problem with Jauron: LOSING. His record in Chicago was horrendous and his record here is mediocre. And he keeps doing the same things over and over again. Or, to say it simply: I keep complaining about Jauron because he keeps providing valid reasons for complaints.

But you have no point. You're arguing a hypothetical reaction that I may or may not have had to a situation that didn't actually occur, which is beyond ridiculous. And you're arguing my biases which I readily admit.

So, tell me this:

How are we going to get better by not practicing something simply because it may or may not result in an injury? If JP's hand was injured, what was he doing on the field?

If you want to keep guessing my reaction to situations that never occurred, don't bother because I have no interest in continuing that meaningless conversation.
As far as knowing things about you is concerned... you without fail run around the track the same way every time so make of it what you will
As far as practice is concerned are you seriously implying that we don't practice the two minute drill? And yeah, risking a needless injury to "practice" a two minute drill in a meaningless preseason game is stupid. The offense has shown consistent improvement over the last two games. They have in fact dare I say (gasp) looked good. Does that mean they are going to be good at the two minute drill? No. But considering the apparent improvement that is evidenced, there is more evidence to support that they have improved than there is to suggest they have not.

[OpIv37]

As far as knowing things about you is concerned... you without fail run around the track the same way every time so make of it what you will
As far as practice is concerned are you seriously implying that we don't practice the two minute drill? And yeah, risking a needless injury to "practice" a two minute drill in a meaningless preseason game is stupid. The offense has shown consistent improvement over the last two games. They have in fact dare I say (gasp) looked good. Does that mean they are going to be good at the two minute drill? No. But considering the apparent improvement that is evidenced, there is more evidence to support that they have improved than there is to suggest they have not.

If we did practice the two minute drill in camp or at the fieldhouse, the practice sure as hell didn't lead to RESULTS. So, something different is necessary, ie, practicing it in a more game like situation, like PRESEASON.

The O has looked good. They STILL haven't shown the ability to run the two minute drill. I'd much rather take the risk of injury than the risk of being unprepared. But not Jauron. It didn't work before so we might as well try it again!.

[jmb1099]

If we did practice the two minute drill in camp or at the fieldhouse, the practice sure as hell didn't lead to RESULTS. So, something different is necessary, ie, practicing it in a more game like situation, like PRESEASON.

The O has looked good. They STILL haven't shown the ability to run the two minute drill. I'd much rather take the risk of injury than the risk of being unprepared. But not Jauron. It didn't work before so we might as well try it again!.
I can't believe you're serious about this. You're basing this year on Last Years results, but you admit the O has looked good. Tell me, how did the O look in preseason last year? How did the O look during the regular? Besides, let's say for the sake of argument that the Bills went out and pulled off a successful two minute drive during a preseason game... what might you say once someone called it a success? It was nice but remember it was only preseason so...

Besides, you're only assuming they're unprepared because you haven't seen a two minute drive this year... that does not necessarily mean they are unprepared, it simply means you haven't seen one. Had we had two or three failed attempts THIS YEAR then I would very quickly say you had a point. Had our offense been putrid I'd say you had a point... but that isn't the case is it?

[OpIv37]

I can't believe you're serious about this. You're basing this year on Last Years results, but you admit the O has looked good. Tell me, how did the O look in preseason last year? How did the O look during the regular? Besides, let's say for the sake of argument that the Bills went out and pulled off a successful two minute drive during a preseason game... what might you say once someone called it a success? It was nice but remember it was only preseason so...

Besides, you're only assuming they're unprepared because you haven't seen a two minute drive this year... that does not necessarily mean they are unprepared, it simply means you haven't seen one. Had we had two or three failed attempts THIS YEAR then I would very quickly say you had a point. Had our offense been putrid I'd say you had a point... but that isn't the case is it?

You're not too good at this "logic" thing, are you?

I'm basing it on what we've seen so far. Last year, they couldn't do the 2 min drill. They made very few personnel changes on offense in the off season. They haven't attempted the 2 minute drill in a game situation. They have demonstrated that they can't do it. They have yet to demonstrate that they CAN do it.

They were unprepared to do it each of the last 2 seasons, particularly last year.

So yes, I'm assuming that they can't because it's a very reasonable assumption until they prove otherwise. They had the chance to prove otherwise but again, Jauron decided it was good enough, just like it was good enough in practice last year! :rolleyes:

[jmb1099]

You're not too good at this "logic" thing, are you?

I'm basing it on what we've seen so far. Last year, they couldn't do the 2 min drill. They made very few personnel changes on offense in the off season. They haven't attempted the 2 minute drill in a game situation. They have demonstrated that they can't do it. They have yet to demonstrate that they CAN do it.

They were unprepared to do it each of the last 2 seasons, particularly last year.

So yes, I'm assuming that they can't because it's a very reasonable assumption until they prove otherwise. They had the chance to prove otherwise but again, Jauron decided it was good enough, just like it was good enough in practice last year! :rolleyes:
I don't do too badly with the logic thing when I'm having a logical discussion with a reasonable person. Sadly those discussions go out the window when someone begins a post with an attempt to get personal. Usually in a debate that is the first sign that someone is losing credibility in their point. I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking you're assertion that Jauron will never be successful because you say so based upon not having seen a successful two minute drill this year. You have established the foundation of your argument based upon what you have seen over the past two seasons which I will readily admit was not pretty. However, the foundation of your argument is flawed in that you either cannot see or choose to ignore all of the other variables in place past and present. In the two year period you mentioned, it wasn't just the two minute drill that was poor, it was the entire offense. Issues with coaching, issues with QB, the list is large. So again, the entire offense was poor. Had the offense played well in every area but the two minute drill then one could reasonably say that Jauron will never be successful in this league because the man does not know how to coach a two minute drill, but that isn't the case. So the foundation of your argument is severely flawed. Being as that is the case, an argument with a flawed foundation is weak at best. So back to the present and what we have actually seen happen with the offense up to this point. The first game with the Skins looked like last year part two, no question and had we continued to look that way I wouldn't even bother in this long drawn out exercise. But the last two games showed marked improvement on both sides of the ball, especially the offense.
Both QB's seem to be playing well, the oline for all of its shuffling and drama seem to be playing well, the running game needs no discussion, new O Coordinator seems to actually understand the game (but here is where I'll take a page out of your book, we'll see)
So what we have seen is improvement in almost every aspect of the Offense since the first preseason game. That is what we have seen this year.
What we have not seen is a two minute drill. Which also means we haven't seen one fail or succeed. But somehow in your mind this means we cannot perform one, because you can't see it, because of a flawed foundational thought regarding last years poor execution which had nothing to do with the two minute drill as much as it did the failed execution of the entire offensive scheme... which has been changed since last year with the change of the coordinator which has so far shown marked improvement

[justasportsfan]

OP is just being his usual self. He rants about the game being useless because Trent , PArrish and other players aren't there and then rants that running the 2 minute drill without these guys is important.

[Night Train]

Nice job. :bf1:

[Griff]

Nice job. :bf1:

no you can't be happy with 4-0 you have to point and laugh at fellow Bills fans because they were wrong.

:poop:

[OpIv37]

no you can't be happy with 4-0 you have to point and laugh at fellow Bills fans because they were wrong.

:poop:

Well, they've definitely been better with the two minute drill so far this year.

But the jury's still out on Jauron so don't point and laugh too soon. 4 games does not make up for 7 years of mediocrity. But if he continues to coach like he has over the first 4 games of this season, then I'll have to eat my crow.

[justasportsfan]

If we keep bumping OP's rants ,this place would be busier than draft day.

[Griff]

Well, they've definitely been better with the two minute drill so far this year.

But the jury's still out on Jauron so don't point and laugh too soon. 4 games does not make up for 7 years of mediocrity. But if he continues to coach like he has over the first 4 games of this season, then I'll have to eat my crow.

which jury is this? I think most of us are happy with DJ right now, who is 18-16 as our coach.

[OpIv37]

which jury is this? I think most of us are happy with DJ right now, who is 18-16 as our coach.

Check your math.

7-9, 7-9, 4-0

That's 18-18. He STILL doesn't have a winning record. Why would any Bills fan be happy with a coach who doesn't have a winning record?

[justasportsfan]

which jury is this? I think most of us are happy with DJ right now, who is 18-16 as our coach.
The jury that club Jauron won't come out strong at the start of the season. We're already 4-0 and Op is still deciding whether the no practice works for the start of the season.

[OpIv37]

The jury that club Jauron won't come out strong at the start of the season. We're already 4-0 and Op is still deciding whether the no practice works for the start of the season.

EXTREMELY short-sighted.

It didn't work for 2 seasons. It did work for one. Based on the evidence we have so far, it fails twice as much as it works.

[justasportsfan]

EXTREMELY short-sighted.

It didn't work for 2 seasons. It did work for one. Based on the evidence we have so far, it fails twice as much as it works.Extremely Naive.

It didn't work for 2 seasons because our players were inexperienced. Because we were still in the process of rebuilding. It takes 3 years to rebuild a team .

[justasportsfan]

Especially when to rebuild a team via the DRAFT!!!

[OpIv37]

Extremely Naive.

It didn't work for 2 seasons because our players were inexperienced. Because we were still in the process of rebuilding. It takes 3 years to rebuild a team .

well you're drawing a faulty conclusion. There were a lot of different factors that changed, and you're automatically assuming that it means the light practice schedule has no bearing.

Maybe all those changes are what allowed the team to overcome the light practice routine, and we're winning IN SPITE of it. I don't know that for a fact, and neither do you. So there is simply no way you can tell me that "Club Jauron" works because it's logically impossible. You lose.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Check your math.

7-9, 7-9, 4-0

That's 18-18. He STILL doesn't have a winning record. Why would any Bills fan be happy with a coach who doesn't have a winning record?
So if we win two days from now you will come out and apologize, right?

[OpIv37]

So if we win two days from now you will come out and apologize, right?

nope.

2 losing seasons.

1 season still in progress.

Even if we have a winning season this year, he's still had twice as many losing seasons as winning ones in Buffalo, and 2 winning seasons to 6 losing seasons overall.

Some of you have become so accustomed to losing that you are way too easy to please. 4 good games does not make up for years of mediocrity. Neither does 5.

[justasportsfan]

well you're drawing a faulty conclusion. There were a lot of different factors that changed, and you're automatically assuming that it means the light practice schedule has no bearing.

Maybe all those changes are what allowed the team to overcome the light practice routine, and we're winning IN SPITE of it. I don't know that for a fact, and neither do you. So there is simply no way you can tell me that "Club Jauron" works because it's logically impossible. You lose. Maybe , maybe not. But the fact is, Club Jauron the very camp you said "WOULD NEVER WIN " produced WINS which PROVED YOU WRONG. That's why you should never talk like you know whats gonna happen with an exclamation point. The FACTS are out and your prediction was wrong...AGAIN!

[OpIv37]

Remember, Jauron had 1 good season in Chicago compared to 4 losing ones. He has to prove he can win consistently.

[justasportsfan]

nope.

2 losing seasons.

1 season still in progress.

Even if we have a winning season this year, he's still had twice as many losing seasons as winning ones in Buffalo, and 2 winning seasons to 6 losing seasons overall.

Some of you have become so accustomed to losing that you are way too easy to please. 4 good games does not make up for years of mediocrity. Neither does 5.
OP is still blaming Dick for the Donahoe era. :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Maybe , maybe not. But the fact is, Club Jauron the very camp you said "WOULD NEVER WIN " produced WINS which PROVED YOU WRONG. That's why you should never talk like you know whats gonna happen with an exclamation point. The FACTS are out and your prediction was wrong...AGAIN!

You're nitpicking semantics.

Yes, I was wrong in my absolute with the word "never".

However, the results of Club Jauron have been negative more than they have been positive. So, while my tone may have been too harsh, my overall concern remains valid.

[OpIv37]

OP is still blaming Dick for the Donahoe era. :rolleyes:

Huh? That was Jauron's record in Chicago and his record here. it has NOTHING to do with Donahoe whatsoever.

[justasportsfan]

However, the results of Club Jauron have been negative more than they have been positive. So, while my tone may have been too harsh, my overall concern remains valid.
Not when you have a 3 year rebuilding plan via the draft.

did I escpect a turn around in his first 2 years? NO. Not when the plan is rebuilding via the draft. Was the team where we expected it to be the first 2 years? yes.

IS the team at this point in time where it's supposed to be ? NO. He's surpassed the expectation at this point.

[OpIv37]

Not when you have a 3 year rebuilding plan via the draft.

did I escpect a turn around in his first 2 years? NO. Not when the plan is rebuilding via the draft. Was the team where we expected it to be the first 2 years? yes.

IS the team at this point in time where it's supposed to be ? NO. He's surpassed the expectation at this point.

He's surpassed expectations for the last 4 games. He was mediocre for the 32 before that.

How quickly we forget.

[justasportsfan]

Huh? That was Jauron's record in Chicago and his record here. it has NOTHING to do with Donahoe whatsoever.

What happened is chicago has nothing to do with what he did here. Even you admitted in the past that you don't know much about what he did there. You see the record and then you make assumptions that he failed because of Club Jauorn. Anyone will tell you that he failed because he didn't see eye to eye with De Angelo.

Forget what he did there. Where is he NOW? 4-0.

[justasportsfan]

He's surpassed expectations for the last 4 games. He was mediocre for the 32 before that.

How quickly we forget.
WEll obviously he was mediocre his last 2 years. We were rebuilding. YOu still don't understand that word?

Most coaches are mediocre when rebuilding via the draft. If you expected more out of him the last 2 years then you are UNREALISTIC.

[Jeff1220]

Maybe Jauron's camp/practices aren't "light" but well-planned as described by UCLA coaching great John Wooden:

"I spent two hours with my staff planning each practice. Each drill was calculated to the minute. Every aspect of the seeion was choreographed, including where the balls would be placed. I did not want any time lost by players running to a misplaced ball bin.
Practice under some coaches runs for three hours. Mine last an hour and a half to two hours, and we always finish on time. If practice does not end when it's supposed to end, players will hold back a little effort and energy. I wanted my players to give their best effort throughout practice, so I became a stickler for time management...we got more done in a shorter period of time."

Practice doesn't have to be long and drawn out to be effective.

[OpIv37]

What happened is chicago has nothing to do with what he did here. Even you admitted in the past that you don't know much about what he did there. You see the record and then you make assumptions that he failed because of Club Jauorn. Anyone will tell you that he failed because he didn't see eye to eye with De Angelo.

Forget what he did there. Where is he NOW? 4-0.

Wrong. He's 18-18. You made your cut off point for what constitutes "now" based on what makes Jauron look the best. I'm not going to let you get away with that.

And as usual, you are not holding people accountable. You are blaming Jauron's failures in Chicago solely on the GM. No one ever has accountability or personal responsibility with you- it's always someone else's fault. Answer this: you always cite Jauron's 13-3 season in Chicago- why is it that he's responsible for that one but the GM is responsible for the 4 losing seasons he had there? Hmmmm.....

[justasportsfan]

Wrong. He's 18-18. You made your cut off point for what constitutes "now" based on what makes Jauron look the best. I'm not going to let you get away with that......because he had a 3 year window and this is the 3rd year and he is 4-0



And as usual, you are not holding people accountable. You are blaming Jauron's failures in Chicago solely on the GM. No one ever has accountability or personal responsibility with you- it's always someone else's fault. Answer this: you always cite Jauron's 13-3 season in Chicago- why is it that he's responsible for that one but the GM is responsible for the 4 losing seasons he had there? Hmmmm..... Puhlease. I gave Jauron 3 years to fix the mess he inherited. Only those who had UNREALISTIC expectations the last 2 years (YOU) like to keep blaming him for having to rebuild.

[ublinkwescore]

Extremely Naive.

It didn't work for 2 seasons because our players were inexperienced. Because we were still in the process of rebuilding. It takes 3 years to rebuild a team .

add in the benefit of continuity (for the most part).

[OpIv37]

because he had a 3 year window and this is the 3rd year and he is 4-0

Puhlease. I gave Jauron 3 years to fix the mess he inherited. Only those who had UNREALISTIC expectations the last 2 years (YOU) like to keep blaming him for having to rebuild.

Realistic? Unrealistic? It's an irrelevant distinction.

You like to pretend those years don't count because you call them rebuilding years. Well, as a fan who had to watch my team lose, it doesn't really matter. I still had to watch losses.

[justasportsfan]

Realistic? Unrealistic? It's an irrelevant distinction..
it becomes relvant only when you talk about whats ones realistic views ? :rolleyes:


You like to pretend those years don't count because you call them rebuilding years. Well, as a fan who had to watch my team lose, it doesn't really matter. I still had to watch losses.
they do count but the results of the first 2 years were REALISTIC expectations. I don't care if he went 1-15 last year as long as it's fixed in his 3rd year. So far so good. So far he's making your predictions WRONG.

[HAMMER]

You guys will never get Op to admit he is wrong, NEVER. He is always right.

[justasportsfan]

He is always right.

Not when its time to pay up. I wonder if he'll even win a SINGLE bet we made.

[trapezeus]

i think alot of us were upset with jauron's ingame decisions last year. we liked his morale building and getting something from nothing the last 2 years.

Just because we are 4-0 doesn't mean we are out of the woods. Like Justa, i'm waiting through this year for a full 3 years for Jauron to be graded. if he puts this team in a better place than the last 2 years and makes good decisions during the game, then i'm sold. He's the best man for the job. if they fall apart and lose some games because he's wasting timeouts or not running the clock or being conservative, i'm going to be angry with him.

But its really all about how this season ends up relative to the past seasons and if it looks like he's making progress instead of getting hung up on his typical problematic issues.

[raphael120]

He haven't won any playoff births yet...4-0 is nice...but it's just that....4 wins. Can't make it to the playoffs at 4-12. We need to keep winning.

[justasportsfan]

He haven't won any playoff births yet...4-0 is nice...but it's just that....4 wins. Can't make it to the playoffs at 4-12. We need to keep winning.
difference is, the jury is still out while OP already made his decision when he created this thrread.

[OpIv37]

difference is, the jury is still out while OP already made his decision when he created this thrread.

already?

4 losing seasons out of 5 in Chicago.
2 losing seasons out of 2 in Buffalo.

How much more evidence do you need?

[jmb1099]

already?

4 losing seasons out of 5 in Chicago.
2 losing seasons out of 2 in Buffalo.

How much more evidence do you need?
There isn't a doubt in my mind that you are happy with quite a bit of what has happened this season up to this point. That being said this thread was started on the basis of Jauron not being able to win in this league because of ultra conservative play and lack of practice with w special emphasis on two minute drills. So my question is simply this: Considering what you've seen in the season so far, would you say there is evidence of practice? Have we been too conservative? When we've had the opportunity to utilize time management have we done so consistently or do we think we're still lacking in these areas?

[trapezeus]

already?

4 losing seasons out of 5 in Chicago.
2 losing seasons out of 2 in Buffalo.

How much more evidence do you need?

but what happens if its like a blackjack table....and now he's just warming up and the good cards/good coaching is coming out?

[justasportsfan]

already?

4 losing seasons out of 5 in Chicago.
2 losing seasons out of 2 in Buffalo.

How much more evidence do you need?

I need 3 years as a BILLS HC before I say he's a wrong hire or not. What he did as a bear has no bearing as a Bills HC just like Marv's stint with KC had nothing to do with his accomplishments here. All I care is what they do with this team and since I gave Dick 3 years, he's right on track.

You decided he was a wrong hire when we hired him. Then you say the jury is still out and then in this thread said again that he won't win. Again, the jury is still out. How many times do you have to change your mind about Dick?

[trapezeus]

in scary, the world is ending thought, i think i agree with Justa.

[Griff]

Check your math.

7-9, 7-9, 4-0

That's 18-18. He STILL doesn't have a winning record. Why would any Bills fan be happy with a coach who doesn't have a winning record?

whoops my bad, this is why you don't do math in your sleep.

[OpIv37]

There isn't a doubt in my mind that you are happy with quite a bit of what has happened this season up to this point. That being said this thread was started on the basis of Jauron not being able to win in this league because of ultra conservative play and lack of practice with w special emphasis on two minute drills. So my question is simply this: Considering what you've seen in the season so far, would you say there is evidence of practice? Have we been too conservative? When we've had the opportunity to utilize time management have we done so consistently or do we think we're still lacking in these areas?

I've already admitted that I was wrong with the use of the word "never" in regards to Jauron winning, and that so far the 2 min drill has been much better.

[OpIv37]

You guys will never get Op to admit he is wrong, NEVER. He is always right.

Not true.

I admitted that I was wrong about several things in this thread.

But I'll admit when I'm wrong when I'm ACTUALLY wrong- not when Justa or someone else tries to make me appear to be wrong.

[Griff]

nope.

2 losing seasons.

1 season still in progress.

Even if we have a winning season this year, he's still had twice as many losing seasons as winning ones in Buffalo, and 2 winning seasons to 6 losing seasons overall.

Some of you have become so accustomed to losing that you are way too easy to please. 4 good games does not make up for years of mediocrity. Neither does 5.

so it doesn't matter that the title of the thread is Why Jauron will never win in this league, because he's lost in the past he will never be a successful coach?

You know Marv had a record of .423 with only one winning record when the Bills brought him in as the coach. His first two seasons with us he was .410

[justasportsfan]

in scary, the world is ending thought, i think i agree with Justa.
we don't disagree much other than you think JP sucks and I'm not sure that he does until I see him play under good circumstances.

[OpIv37]

so it doesn't matter that the title of the thread is Why Jauron will never win in this league, because he's lost in the past he will never be a successful coach?

You know Marv had a record of .423 with only one winning record when the Bills brought him in as the coach. His first two seasons with us he was .410

And?

Marv isn't Jauron. You're using the exception to prove the rule. Plenty of coaches who failed in their first two seasons were never successful. Plenty of coaches who failed in their previous stint also failed in their subsequent stint.

Marv being able to do it has no bearing on Jauron whatsoever.

[Mr. Miyagi]

nope.

2 losing seasons.

1 season still in progress.

Even if we have a winning season this year, he's still had twice as many losing seasons as winning ones in Buffalo, and 2 winning seasons to 6 losing seasons overall.

Some of you have become so accustomed to losing that you are way too easy to please. 4 good games does not make up for years of mediocrity. Neither does 5.
1. You will never apologize for any reason, because you'll always have a new spin on it.

2. Like you said, Jauron's record is 18-18 right now. One more win will give him a WINNING OVERALL RECORD. Coaches are generally judged by the overall record, not by seasons.

3. Even if you were convinced by #2, refer to #1.

4. Don't you get tired of *****ing your whole life away?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Not true.

I admitted that I was wrong about several things in this thread.

But I'll admit when I'm wrong when I'm ACTUALLY wrong- not when Justa or someone else tries to make me appear to be wrong. Because it involves you believing that you're wrong, but not when you're wrong about not being wrong.

Right?

[Billsforevers]

Wow the twilight zone. Is this the bbmb? I am so confused. I was under the impression that the fans here had some sense.

[OpIv37]

1. You will never apologize for any reason, because you'll always have a new spin on it.

2. Like you said, Jauron's record is 18-18 right now. One more win will give him a WINNING OVERALL RECORD. Coaches are generally judged by the overall record, not by seasons.

3. Even if you were convinced by #2, refer to #1.

4. Don't you get tired of *****ing your whole life away?

1. Not true. What you call "spin" is actually called "facts". In fact, you're spinning right now because I admitted to being wrong about several things in this thread, and have complimented Jauron all year long in my post-game reviews.

2. Define "overall". If you count Jauron's record in Chicago, he's got a long way to go before he has a winning overall record.

3. Meh

4. No. I get tired of having so much to ***** about.

[raphael120]

I'll give Jauron this:

QB's MAKE coaches. QB's BREAK coaches.

This may be the first time in Jaurons career where he had a competent QB.

Look at Bellichick without Brady. The Pats are extremely average.

Even look at Shanahan, Cowher, whoever. When you have a smart, competent QB, the coach benefits greatly.

[Bill Cody]

And?

Marv isn't Jauron. You're using the exception to prove the rule. Plenty of coaches who failed in their first two seasons were never successful. Plenty of coaches who failed in their previous stint also failed in their subsequent stint.

Marv being able to do it has no bearing on Jauron whatsoever.

So because some coaches failed their 2nd time around it's ok to slam ALL coaches as failures in their 2nd job even before they fail there too? Good thing the Broncos with Shanahan and the Patriots with Bellichick didn't see it that way. On the other side of the coin what happened to George Seifert in Carolina after winning 2 titles with the 9ers? As important as coaching is in football the talent level on the team is much more important.

Here's what YOU need to grasp: most experts would tell you that even a great coach isn't worth more than an extra 3 wins a year (which is obviously VERY significant but it's still 3 games not 5 or 6). Exactly where do you think Jauron should have finished the last 2 years based on an HONEST appraisal of our talent? You like to have it both ways. How many hundreds of posts have you made in the past two years slamming the talent on the Bills? Yet you feel no contradiction in blaming Jauron for not winning more here.

So which is it? Did the Bills under Jauron underachieve the last 2 years or was this basically a very young team with a lot of holes that with less effective coaching could easily been 3-5 games worse the last 2 seasons? I vote for the latter. Especially when you consider Jauron has been saddled with JP Losman as his starting QB for most of that 2 years I think you have to give Jauron his due. Let's see how he does assuming continued production from the QB position- so far so good.

[OpIv37]

So because some coaches failed their 2nd time around it's ok to slam ALL coaches as failures in their 2nd job even before they fail there too? Good thing the Broncos with Shanahan and the Patriots with Bellichick didn't see it that way. On the other side of the coin what happened to George Seifert in Carolina after winning 2 titles with the 9ers? As important as coaching is in football the talent level on the team is much more important.

Here's what YOU need to grasp: most experts would tell you that even a great coach isn't worth more than an extra 3 wins a year (which is obviously VERY significant but it's still 3 games not 5 or 6). Exactly where do you think Jauron should have finished the last 2 years based on an HONEST appraisal of our talent? You like to have it both ways. How many hundreds of posts have you made in the past two years slamming the talent on the Bills? Yet you feel no contradiction in blaming Jauron for not winning more here.

So which is it? Did the Bills under Jauron underachieve the last 2 years or was this basically a very young team with a lot of holes that with less effective coaching could easily been 3-5 games worse the last 2 seasons? I vote for the latter. Especially when you consider Jauron has been saddled with JP Losman as his starting QB for most of that 2 years I think you have to give Jauron his due. Let's see how he does assuming continued production from the QB position- so far so good.

no, because record is the best way to judge a head coach, it's ok to assume a coach with a poor record will continue to do poorly.

The answer is that it was both. Jauron made some CLEAR mistakes on the field over the past couple of years. There is no doubt that there were times when the players didn't execute, but that doesn't get Jauron off the hook for poor use of time outs, lousy in game adjustments, not reigning in Fairchild, etc. Fortunately, all of that appears to have changed this year, but Jauron is very much deserving of the criticism, as are the players.

And if you read my post-game reviews I HAVE been giving Jauron his due for THIS year, but 4 games doesn't offset 6 mediocre seasons out of 7 attempts. Jauron has to win consistently before I'll change my opinion on him. In the meantime, I'll continue to give him his props when he deserves it but maintain my skepticism of his coaching abilities.

[Griff]

And?

Marv isn't Jauron. You're using the exception to prove the rule. Plenty of coaches who failed in their first two seasons were never successful. Plenty of coaches who failed in their previous stint also failed in their subsequent stint.

Marv being able to do it has no bearing on Jauron whatsoever.

says you, maybe its not an exception just Marv choosing his true successor.

[OpIv37]

says you, maybe its not an exception just Marv choosing his true successor.

That's crazy.

Jauron is a different person coaching a different team in a league that has changed greatly since Marv's coaching days.

It's absurd to suggest Marv's ability to rebound with the Bills after a bad stint in KC has anything to do with Jauron's ability to improve with Buffalo after a bad stint in Chicago.

You found one example that matches your point, yet you're ignoring all the examples that suggest the opposite and you're ignoring a large number of variables between both situations.

[justasportsfan]

But I'll admit when I'm wrong when I'm ACTUALLY wrong- not when Justa or someone else tries to make me appear to be wrong.
you've admitted to be being wrong in some of your arguments. You've been wrong in all of our bets . I case you haven't noticed, I am not the one making you appear to be wrong. You did that to yourself. You've been flat out wrong without my help.

[Griff]

That's crazy.

Jauron is a different person coaching a different team in a league that has changed greatly since Marv's coaching days.

It's absurd to suggest Marv's ability to rebound with the Bills after a bad stint in KC has anything to do with Jauron's ability to improve with Buffalo after a bad stint in Chicago.

You found one example that matches your point, yet you're ignoring all the examples that suggest the opposite and you're ignoring a large number of variables between both situations.

I'm crazy and you're pessimistic... at least I get to enjoy being 4-0 meanwhile you're too busy waiting for the other foot to drop.

[OpIv37]

I'm crazy and you're pessimistic... at least I get to enjoy being 4-0 meanwhile you're too busy waiting for the other foot to drop.

pessimistic or realistic?

2007: Bills have an outside shot at the playoffs in November. They fall apart against Jacksonville, rebound against the Skins and Miami, then get shut out in Cleveland and blow a 17-0 lead to the Giants.
2005: Bills win the home opener before completely tanking
2004: Team wins 6 games and 8 out of 9 only to lose to Pittsburgh's back-ups with playoffs on the line.
2003: Bills crush good teams in NE and Jax before completely tanking the rest of the season and finishing 5-11.
2002: Team starts 5-3, then the offense goes dormant and they finish 3-5.

Now, I fully realize that other than 2007, this team is not the same as those teams. But after the past history of this team, how could anyone NOT be pessimistic? It's like battered woman syndrome- you keep going back expecting it to be different, and the reward for your loyalty is a boot to the gut.

[trapezeus]

So because some coaches failed their 2nd time around it's ok to slam ALL coaches as failures in their 2nd job even before they fail there too? Good thing the Broncos with Shanahan and the Patriots with Bellichick didn't see it that way. On the other side of the coin what happened to George Seifert in Carolina after winning 2 titles with the 9ers? As important as coaching is in football the talent level on the team is much more important.

Here's what YOU need to grasp: most experts would tell you that even a great coach isn't worth more than an extra 3 wins a year (which is obviously VERY significant but it's still 3 games not 5 or 6). Exactly where do you think Jauron should have finished the last 2 years based on an HONEST appraisal of our talent? You like to have it both ways. How many hundreds of posts have you made in the past two years slamming the talent on the Bills? Yet you feel no contradiction in blaming Jauron for not winning more here.

So which is it? Did the Bills under Jauron underachieve the last 2 years or was this basically a very young team with a lot of holes that with less effective coaching could easily been 3-5 games worse the last 2 seasons? I vote for the latter. Especially when you consider Jauron has been saddled with JP Losman as his starting QB for most of that 2 years I think you have to give Jauron his due. Let's see how he does assuming continued production from the QB position- so far so good.

i agree with a lot of what you have to say on principle, but lets say that a coach can win 2-3 games a year or lose 2-3 games a year based on coaching talent alone. if that's the case, he lost us those games, because he went with a bomb in denver instead of running the clock, he almost had us blow the baltimore game by not telling our QB and punter to snap the ball with 2 seconds on the clock instead of 8-12 when the team was clearly trying to go conservative and run clock, and he lost that cowboys game in conjunction with fewell (who admitted as much after the game).
So he lost us 2 games, and we didn't pull out any games in close games like cleveland. So i'm not sure. how to grade jauron last year. He had us in games that we shouldn't have been in, but we didn't win either meaning that his postive influence was incomplete.

On the more positive side, the bills seem to be doing well this year and he gets the benefit of that. they've won close games this year which makes one believe he isn't putting the team in difficult situations where it can't recover. but he is presiding over a team that can't get its act together in the 1st 3 quarters. if we could see his coached team blow out an opponent or two or beat a chargers team, i think everyone is squarely in the jauron bandwagon and not feeling like they have to drink the koolaid.

[tat2dmike77]

Wow the twilight zone. Is this the bbmb? I am so confused. I was under the impression that the fans here had some sense.

Sense left this place LONG LONG LONG LONG AGO!

[tat2dmike77]

I've grown to like OP rants. They make me laugh. In fact they remind of those artsie college kids who have never left the state they live in and try to tell you how bad the world is. You know the type.

Op makes some good points at times and others i roll my eyes and move on. I have come to realize that he has opinion and i have mine and nothing either of us say to each other will change it. When we do discuss things and it gets turned into a pissin contest i walk away cause it's not worth raising my blood pressure arguing with someone who is as stubborn as i am.

[Griff]

I've grown to like OP rants. They make me laugh. In fact they remind of those artsie college kids who have never left the state they live in and try to tell you how bad the world is. You know the type.

Op makes some good points at times and others i roll my eyes and move on. I have come to realize that he has opinion and i have mine and nothing either of us say to each other will change it. When we do discuss things and it gets turned into a pissin contest i walk away cause it's not worth raising my blood pressure arguing with someone who is as stubborn as i am.

any college kids.

[Mitchy moo]

I've grown to like OP rants. They make me laugh. In fact they remind of those artsie college kids who have never left the state they live in and try to tell you how bad the world is. You know the type.

Op makes some good points at times and others i roll my eyes and move on. I have come to realize that he has opinion and i have mine and nothing either of us say to each other will change it. When we do discuss things and it gets turned into a pissin contest i walk away cause it's not worth raising my blood pressure arguing with someone who is as stubborn as i am.

That and the pot you smoked before you wrote this.

[jmb1099]

I've already admitted that I was wrong with the use of the word "never" in regards to Jauron winning, and that so far the 2 min drill has been much better.
I apologize. I didn't ask the question for admission, I really did want to know how you felt about what you've seen up to this point. Thank you sir.

[Cntrygal]

Good or Bad... Agree or Disagree.....

Props to Op for actually EXPLAINING on his reasoning.

[casdhf]

I think Op needs to find a tall bridge to jump off. But even then, the water will be too cold or the bridge not high enough. Something will be wrong.

[Ingtar33]

jeff fisher never posted a winning season for his first 3 or 5 years as head coach...

(he was popping off 7-9 and 8-8 years over and over again... unless my memory isn't functioning correctly)

[John Doe]

By the logic espoused in this thread, Jauron could take the Bills to the superbowl and still be considered a "loser" if his overall career record is less than .500.

Coaches should be judged on what they do with the talent and circumstances that they are dealt.

[Griff]

By the logic espoused in this thread, Jauron could take the Bills to the superbowl and still be considered a "loser" if his overall career record is less than .500.

Coaches should be judged on what they do with the talent and circumstances that they are dealt.

last year is a great example, normally 7-9 would have been a disappointment, but considering all that happened, from the injuries, to JPs let down, to having to start a rookie RB and MLB, 7-9 was actually pretty surprising and earned DJ coach of the year.