Can you name a Dominating D-Lineman who is White?

[Alluro]

I'm having a hard time doing it.....Statistically there are far more great D-Linemen who are black than white. Why does Donahoe insist on drafting a big white stiff every year?

[Tatonka]

howie long.. trace armstong.. hovan..

there are also alot less white DL players.. so the percentage will be lower.

[losman2evans]

Bryce Paup -was

[The Spaz]

1st off why F does it matter. 2nd yeah I can Grant Winstrom and Justin Smith, Those are 2 pretty goods damn players. If the guy was purple with pick polk-a-dots I would pick him as long as the guy can play football! Go Bills!

[Dman]

Reggie.. :tongue:

[Demon]

Originally posted by Alluro
I'm having a hard time doing it.....Statistically there are far more great D-Linemen who are black than white. Why does Donahoe insist on drafting a big white stiff every year?

Yeah your right...... Aaron Schobel sucks too right. Pleaaaaaaase.

[colin]

Winstrom is freaking great.

[Alluro]

I'm talking great ... Howie Long may be the only one in modern times and i wouldn't put him in the same category as a Bruce Smith or a Reggie White. But even the lesser tier guys like KGB, Jason Taylor, or Hugh Douglas, there are just far more guys that aren't white. I hate to sound negative, but whenever i see a white D-lineman get taken i can't help but think that although he may be good, he more than likely won't be a great player.

[simpletask400]

Alluro, what a moron . That is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

Just pathetic, really. Are you for real?

[The Spaz]

What are you racist?!:(

[Alluro]

I knew the racist card would be thrown out there sooner or later and let me say flat out ..NO, i'm not a racist. What i am is someone who sees that statistically the great majority of dominating D-Linemen in the NFL are black and while TD may have found a diamond in the rough, the NUMBERS are greatly against him.

[HenryRules]

Wheter your feelings are backed up by statistics or not, you're prejudiced to someone based on their skin color - that's racism. Whether its justifiable or not can be argued by your statistics (I don't think its justifiable), but the fact of the matter is that judging someone by skin color is racism.

[Kevikid]

I have to back my Thundercats-loving friend here. He is not being racist, some things are just fact. Look at the NBA. The fact is, on average, African Americans are much more athletic than others. It is true that the odds may be against us, but Kelsay was supposed to be taken in the first, and certain players, such as the ones named, break the mold. Hopefully he will become great.

[Kevikid]

He explained himself, don't keep jumping on him. I'm chinese. Chinese people aren't generally very tall. Ya know what, I guess I'm racist then. Give the Alluro a break.

[HenryRules]

Again, prejudging someone based on their skin color is racism whether its backed up by fact or not. You can't change the definition of a word simply because you feel that word has bad connotations and you're not a bad person.

[Kevikid]

Is Kelsay a big white stiff? YES. Read all the draft reports. He plays with "smarts." He has a motor, but not much speed or athletic ability to go along with it. He's prejudging with fact, which last time I check, also means telling the truth.

[ublinkwescore]

Because most quarterbacks are white, and it gives them a sense of pride hurting white people as retribution for them being held down by the man. (J/K)

Maybe because they try harder, and train harder.

[HenryRules]

KeviKid ... the question Alluro proposed was not, "Is Kelsay a stiff because he doesn't have speed or athletic ability?"

The question was solely related to his skin color - I didn't once hear Alluro mention anything about his ability in the first post.

Just to clear things up for you so that you don't think my definition is off ... here's Webster's definition of racism:

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Where do they once put in the qualifier that its not racism if you have statistics to back it up?

[Ingtar33]

Kelsay ran a faster 40 time than... Suggs, Peterson and Redding... heck ran faster than most of the LBs (including Crowell) who were drafted. What is this stuff about him being slow?

Furthermore, he ran the "10 yard" dash in the fastest time Nebraska ever had (from a DL)

Additionally, Alluro isn't the only one who has preconceptions. For example, how many "black" DEs have you ever head tagged with the "motor" label. NONE. That is because it is something saved for a "good" hard working farm boy from Nebraska, not a hard working inner city boy, no they are described as being "relentless".

The reason why Alluro only hears the motor label on white boys is because it’s only given to white boys. If I were to label these DL, I’d have said McDougal has a “motor”, and Kelsay was “relentless”… but that’s just me.

[Jeff1220]

Why aren't there any Italians in the NBA? (J/K)

[Tatonka]

60% of the prison population is black, while only 30% of the united states population is black.

is that a racist statement, or a fact?

it could probably be taken both ways..

i dont think it is necessary to pull out the race card here.. but calling alluro a racist is also not necesssary. that evaluation of kelsay is way off regardles.. but ingtar pretty much made that evaluation look silly already.

[ublinkwescore]

Why don't eskimos play hockey?

I've got a sports joke about mexicans, but I might catch hell for it, so I'll keep it to myself.

[ublinkwescore]

It's a fact, but it also lends credibility to claims that our system is racist when it hands out sentences - a black person is somewhat more likely to... wait a minute, tatonka has me on ignore because I don't do anything but clutter the boards with 'useless drivel' so I'll refrain from posting this useless drivel.

[HenryRules]

Tatonka, both of your statements are statistics ... you did not judge anyone based on those statistics or imply claims that those statistics were the cause of an inherent attribute belonging to blacks.

Calling Alluro a racist may not have been necessary, but his statements were racist. He implied that because Kelsay is white he will not be a great DE. Regardless of anything anyone else says, that's a racist statement.

[Tatonka]

i guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.. i simply dont see it quite that way bud.

[colin]

30% of the US is NOT black.

It is more like 13-16%.

It's true that more black D linemen play in the NFL, but if you watched the ESPN special a few years ago, it was explained pretty clearly.

More black men have a high enough proportion of "fast twitch" muscle fibers that allow for "explosive" sports like running and football. Along with this, more of these "explosive" black men have body types that are better suited for running, football whatever. These body types include the right height, bone density and frame size, hand size, and it appears mentality (this could be explained by the whole "poor kids want it more" angle that is true without regard to race in so many nations).

This isn't to say that blacks on average have more fast twitch muscle fibers or a better body for football, but that there is a much higher occurrence of these (still) rare individuals amongst black populations, or at least in the American black population.

The same thing occurs in very lean blacks and very obese blacks, there are a disproportionate number of blacks with very low numbers of fat cells, and very high numbers of fat cells.

In the same ESPN special (I know part of it was put on during a pre-game show), a study showed the number of genetic variations amongst some black populations (I think they were looking specifically at blacks in Africa), with respect to the above mentioned observables, were as wide as can be observed in aggregate of all populations studied -- in other words there was a huge variety in these small black populations.

Our take on fast vs. slow athletes really takes a turn when we include some other sports that are NOT dominated by black athletes, sports like swimming, table tennis (yeah I know, but they still move quickly), and especially weightlifting.

Top-level weightlifters move faster (in terms of their whole bodies, not just one limb) than any other athletes in the world, and the sport is far and away the most "explosive". This suggests that that many other factors are not being looked at, like our ability to make rapid judgments in space and distance, or especially the mentality of athletes and coaches.

Some black athletes may feel that they are better suited for playing defensive line, and will be more confident than a white athlete of the same ability, and more importantly some coaches will think that a developing black athlete is more "relentless" (good call on that one Ingtar) and better suited for Dline, while he will put his developing white athlete on the offensive line or at tight end (why do so many freaking coaches want to put every big quick white guy at tight end?).

Either way when you get to the NFL level, you are looking at some very talented, skilled, and determined athletes, and the exceptions to the rules are very common.

[Tatonka]

col.. my stats werent ment to be right on the dot.. i was just using that as an example.. thats all.

[colin]

Sure Tatonka, my point is that the over abundance of dominant black D linemen is ever more disproportionate than what some might assume. If we just look at total population size anyhow.

[Tatonka]

gotcha..

[ublinkwescore]

Hockey is an 'explosive' sport - why isn't it dominated by black people?

Can I bring the stereotype in now, or will I catch hell for that too?

[Throne Logic]

Yao Ming is tall.

John Parella is pretty good.

[BuffaloRanger]

Funny.