Bills make roster moves

[Dr. Lecter]

Released: Cox, Fitzpatrick, Nua, Hawthorne.

Waived/Injured: Baker.

[trapezeus]

matt baker is potentially injured? That leaves only hamdan as the fullyhealthy QB on our team.

[TigerJ]

I think Edwards and Losman are both going to be fully healthy by Thursday.

[Romes]

I guess with Baker already getting cut Edwards will play at least a quarter against the Lions.

[Romes]

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6454

well, apparently Baker broke a rib against the Colts.

[mybills]

Fitzpatrick? L&M aren't getting any younger.

[Mr. Miyagi]

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6454

well, apparently Baker broke a rib against the Colts.
The ball must've jammed into his chest when he tripped over and fell on it on his very first play.

:bigwave:

[hydro]

Fitzpatrick? L&M aren't getting any younger.

Nobody carries more than one kicker or punter. NOBODY.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Fitzpatrick? L&M aren't getting any younger.
Lindell is 31, Moorman is 32. For kickers they're nowhere near old.

[Dr. Lecter]

Fitzpatrick? L&M aren't getting any younger.

So are you suggesting getting rid of one of them?

They are not old for their positions either.

[TigerJ]

What Mr. Miyagi and Dr. Lecter said.

[mybills]

Nobody carries more than one kicker or punter. NOBODY.
nobody?

[DraftBoy]

Hopefully we sign Baker to the PS, or some QB at least.

[mybills]

So are you suggesting getting rid of one of them?

hell no. it was just a comment.

[DraftBoy]

nobody?

Atlanta has before. One PK, one KOS, and one P.

[hydro]

Atlanta has before. One PK, one KOS, and one P.

But with as many injuries as the NFL has had, it just doesn't make sense. I am sure he would be ready to come aboard if someone was to get injured.

[The Spaz]

Sucks about Baker. Hopefully Baker and Cox get put on the PS.

[THATHURMANATOR]

nobody?
Right NOBODY EVER.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Atlanta has before. One PK, one KOS, and one P.
Sure but our kickoffs are fine. No need for a specialist.

[DraftBoy]

Sure but our kickoffs are fine. No need for a specialist.

I agree with that, Im just saying that it has happened before.

[DraftBoy]

Pisses me off that we spent a pick on a guy that didnt even make the team...

[EDS]

Pisses me off that we spent a pick on a guy that didnt even make the team...

A few (alright, many) years ago the Bills drafted Bucky Brooks in the second round and he didn't make the team. I kind of expect 7th rounders to be 50/50 on making the team.

[Dr. Lecter]

Pisses me off that we spent a pick on a guy that didnt even make the team...

While I agree in principle that it is nice if all picks make the team, I bet most teams cut one or two guys.

[Romes]

Pisses me off that we spent a pick on a guy that didnt even make the team...

A bit yeah, but he was 1 pick away from being Mr. Irrelevant and two from being an UFA.

[Dr. Lecter]

A few (alright, many) years ago the Bills drafted Bucky Brooks in the second round and he didn't make the team. I kind of expect 7th rounders to be 50/50 on making the team.

Bucky did spend a year on the roster.

[The Spaz]

I would have liked Cox to make the team as well but the odds were stacked against him. They Signed Will James and drafted McKelvin and Corner add that with McGee and Greer, Youboty and it isn't looking good...lol.

[DraftBoy]

I didnt like the pick when we made it having signed James, and already taken Corner and McKelvin. It made little sense to me, why spend yet another pick on a very crowded DB field.

[OpIv37]

I didnt like the pick when we made it having signed James, and already taken Corner and McKelvin. It made little sense to me, why spend yet another pick on a very crowded DB field.

Best Player Available.

It's ALWAYS the best strategy, even when it leads to having 27 CB's and 2 OT's because position doesn't matter after the first two rounds :rolleyes:

[Wally The Barber]

THERE GOES THE SUPERBOWL!

[DraftBoy]

Best Player Available.

It's ALWAYS the best strategy, even when it leads to having 27 CB's and 2 OT's because position doesn't matter after the first two rounds :rolleyes:

Cox was not the BPA, not over guys like Ali Highsmith, and Erin Henderson.

[The Spaz]

Cox was not the BPA, not over guys like Ali Highsmith, and Erin Henderson.

Guys who were UDFA? I know how you are going to respond to this because you have already and you know where I am on that subject. No need for insults.:D:

[DraftBoy]

Guys who were UDFA? I know how you are going to respond to this because you have already and you know where I am on that subject. No need for insults.:D:

Guys who will make final 53 man rosters as opposed to Cox who is now not on any roster. I actually have no idea where you are on this. Do you really think Kennard Cox had more skills than Highsmith or Henderson?

[Dr. Lecter]

Serious question: If Highsmith and Henderson are so wonderful, why were they not drafted?

And neither are guarenteed a spot either.

[The Spaz]

Guys who will make final 53 man rosters as opposed to Cox who is now not on any roster. I actually have no idea where you are on this. Do you really think Kennard Cox had more skills than Highsmith or Henderson?

I guess it depends on depth for other teams that Highsmith or Henderson will make the team. As far as Cox I thought he had a shot if Youboty was still a disappointment. I thought he could have beat out Fox as wll but I heard Fox was also being used at safety which I don't believe Cox was. Like I said I see Cox going on the PS.

[mayotm]

I guess with Baker already getting cut Edwards will play at least a quarter against the Lions.I would be shocked if Edwards plays a full quarter. Especially if the rest Walker. You want to expose Edwards in the pre-season with Bell (although he's played well) at LT?

[DraftBoy]

Serious question: If Highsmith and Henderson are so wonderful, why were they not drafted?

And neither are guarenteed a spot either.

I love your flair for the dramatics in calling them "wonderful" since I never used that term.

Why where they not drafted? Highsmith has a size issue, and Henderson was report to potentially have off the field issues. Their skill level was never in question though. We have also already been over this about 10 times.

Neither are guaranteed one, no but both are currently being looked at as safe on their teams. Henderson not as safe as Highsmith is in Arizona. Highsmith is challenging Stewart for the #2 OLB spot. Henderson is currently 11th amongst rookies in tackles with 14 and 1 FF.

Cox stats so far...3 tackles and unemployed.

I dont know of one person scouting wise who had Cox ahead of either of these guys skill wise. That includes two NFL teams scouting departments. It was a bad pick when it was made and this cut proves that.

[DraftBoy]

I guess it depends on depth for other teams that Highsmith or Henderson will make the team. As far as Cox I thought he had a shot if Youboty was still a disappointment. I thought he could have beat out Fox as wll but I heard Fox was also being used at safety which I don't believe Cox was. Like I said I see Cox going on the PS.

I don't know why they didnt try Cox out as a S, at 6'1 and slower feet S makes more sense for him...

[Dr. Lecter]

I love your flair for the dramatics in calling them "wonderful" since I never used that term.

Why where they not drafted? Highsmith has a size issue, and Henderson was report to potentially have off the field issues. Their skill level was never in question though. We have also already been over this about 10 times.

Neither are guaranteed one, no but both are currently being looked at as safe on their teams. Henderson not as safe as Highsmith is in Arizona. Highsmith is challenging Stewart for the #2 OLB spot. Henderson is currently 11th amongst rookies in tackles with 14 and 1 FF.

Cox stats so far...3 tackles and unemployed.

I dont know of one person scouting wise who had Cox ahead of either of these guys skill wise. That includes two NFL teams scouting departments. It was a bad pick when it was made and this cut proves that.

My flair for the dynamic? And you are the one pissed over the 251st pick in the draft getting cut??????

My point is that: 1. Skill alone is not a determining factor. 2. The two choices you listed (and have harped on) are not a roster as of yet. 3. While he is cut he can still be on the PS.

I respect your knowledge, but every time the Bills make a move you disagree with it is not stupid.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't know why they didnt try Cox out as a S, at 6'1 and slower feet S makes more sense for him...

They did try him at safety. It says so in the article.

[DraftBoy]

They did try him at safety. It says so in the article.

I didnt see him play once of S or see it reported in any camp report. But if they did it and he sucked there which he did, then oh well. Still a bad pick, but at least they tried him there.

[The Spaz]

I didnt see him play once of S or see it reported in any camp report. But if they did it and he sucked there which he did, then oh well. Still a bad pick, but at least they tried him there.

I didn't see him play S either but oh well.

[mysticsoto]

I don't know why they didnt try Cox out as a S, at 6'1 and slower feet S makes more sense for him...

The Safety position is crowded also. I doubt he'd have made it there also. It was a bad pick from the start...we should have atleast drafted a Center. Can anybody be worse than Gaddis??? Brennen Carvalho might have been a good choice or Fernando Velasco...Doug Legursky...there were a few that could have been brought in.

[justasportsfan]

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6454

well, apparently Baker broke a rib against the Colts.
Its a smokescreen so teams will pass on him a we can put him on PS :D

[Ed]

Pisses me off that we spent a pick on a guy that didnt even make the team...
It's not really that big of a dissapointment that we cut a 7th rounder when you take into consideration that we had 10 draft picks. With the addition of free agents too it's hard for them to all make it. Cutting 7th rounders isn't that uncommon in the NFL.

He still has a chance at the practice squad too.

[DraftBoy]

My flair for the dynamic? And you are the one pissed over the 251st pick in the draft getting cut??????

My point is that: 1. Skill alone is not a determining factor. 2. The two choices you listed (and have harped on) are not a roster as of yet. 3. While he is cut he can still be on the PS.

I respect your knowledge, but every time the Bills make a move you disagree with it is not stupid.

Your damn right Im pissed that our biggest draft in years and we can't even pick guys capable of making a team with about as many holes as a slice of swiss cheese. Drafting for depth isn't rocket science here, we aren't talking about the #1 pick, this crap is pretty easy to find good depth guys to at least make the team.

1. You are correct but that does not mean that Cox is a better pick
2. I can name 50 more if you'd like those are just two of the most aggregious
3. Does making the PS, automatically mean something? If he doesn't make it, will you suddenly agree with me that the pick was stupid and sucked?

The Bills make moves everyday I disagree with, but there are some moves that are just painful to watch and our drafting history is not good or even average (yes we went there yesterday no need to rehash). Ive said many time I think I could do a better job if given the shot to do it. But I am also wrong sometimes too (Omar Jacobs, Alex Smith, Delaine Walker, Todd Watkins, Chris Henry, JP Losman, Claude Wroten, etc.) but Im right more often than not (Tavaris Jackson, Marques Colston, Eric Weddle, Jacoby Jones, Laurent Robinson, Kamerion Wimbley, Antonio Cromartie, John McCargo, Thomas Howard, Kellen Clemens, Max Jean-Gilles, etc.). Kennard Cox was a stupid pick when made, but it was made and now we have 1 wasted pick already from the 2008 NFL Draft and nobody can be happy about that.

[DraftBoy]

The Safety position is crowded also. I doubt he'd have made it there also. It was a bad pick from the start...we should have atleast drafted a Center. Can anybody be worse than Gaddis??? Brennen Carvalho might have been a good choice or Fernando Velasco...Doug Legursky...there were a few that could have been brought in.

Agreed but I thought he was a better fit at S than CB.

All 3 of those guys I would of loved to bring in with that pick, but dont doubt the Buffalo scouting department.

[DraftBoy]

It's not really that big of a dissapointment that we cut a 7th rounder when you take into consideration that we had 10 draft picks. With the addition of free agents too it's hard for them to all make it. Cutting 7th rounders isn't that uncommon in the NFL.

He still has a chance at the practice squad too.

My philosophy is that you should never have a draft pick not make your 53 man roster.

[justasportsfan]

there are not enough teams to put all these 7th rd picks. There are more than enough players that are currently already on the rosters that could easily beat out 7th rd. picks. Sure there will be guys like Peters, or Digi's out there that are diamonds but diamonds are rare.

[justasportsfan]

Your damn right Im pissed that our biggest draft in years and we can't even pick guys capable of making a team with about as many holes as a slice of swiss cheese. Drafting for depth isn't rocket science here, we aren't talking about the #1 pick, this crap is pretty easy to find good depth guys to at least make the team.

1. You are correct but that does not mean that Cox is a better pick
2. I can name 50 more if you'd like those are just two of the most aggregious
3. Does making the PS, automatically mean something? If he doesn't make it, will you suddenly agree with me that the pick was stupid and sucked?

The Bills make moves everyday I disagree with, but there are some moves that are just painful to watch and our drafting history is not good or even average (yes we went there yesterday no need to rehash). Ive said many time I think I could do a better job if given the shot to do it. But I am also wrong sometimes too (Omar Jacobs, Alex Smith, Delaine Walker, Todd Watkins, Chris Henry, JP Losman, Claude Wroten, etc.) but Im right more often than not (Tavaris Jackson, Marques Colston, Eric Weddle, Jacoby Jones, Laurent Robinson, Kamerion Wimbley, Antonio Cromartie, John McCargo, Thomas Howard, Kellen Clemens, Max Jean-Gilles, etc.). Kennard Cox was a stupid pick when made, but it was made and now we have 1 wasted pick already from the 2008 NFL Draft and nobody can be happy about that.

you forgot to mention you were wrong about Hughes over trent.

[DraftBoy]

you forgot to mention you were wrong about Hughes over trent.

That was Pat not I. Im not wrong on Trent either thats on the TBD list along with guys like Micheal Coe, Courtney Brown, Aundrae Allison, Antonio Johnson, Ben Patrick, and Tyler Thigpen to name a few.

[justasportsfan]

That was Pat not I. Im not wrong on Trent either thats on the TBD list along with guys like Micheal Coe, Courtney Brown, Aundrae Allison, Antonio Johnson, Ben Patrick, and Tyler Thigpen to name a few.
nope. You and OP were insisting that we need a cb , Hughs was still there which the colts snagged after we drafted Trent

[DraftBoy]

nope. You and OP were insisting that we need a cb , Hughs was still there which the colts snagged after we drafted Trent

Yes but that doesnt mean I think we should of gone Hughes over Trent that was just one of a few options. I liked Coe and Brown over Hughes anyways.

[justasportsfan]

Yes but that doesnt mean I think we should of gone Hughes over Trent that was just one of a few options. I liked Coe and Brown over Hughes anyways.
The bills still got it right by going for Trent :up:

[DraftBoy]

The bills still got it right by going for Trent :up:

Not quite but keep telling yourself that.

[justasportsfan]

Not quite but keep telling yourself that.

Coe
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10616

which Brown were you reffering to? Eitherways, trent was a better pick than any of those guy you wanted over Trent. Otherwise, please provide an argument defending your opinion.

[DraftBoy]

Coe
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10616

which Brown were you reffering to? Eitherways, trent was a better pick than any of those guy you wanted over Trent. Otherwise, please provide an argument defending your opinion.

I didnt say I wanted them over Trent, please use my words as I say them not as you want to twist them. I said I liked Coe and Brown better than Hughes.

[justasportsfan]

I didnt say I wanted them over Trent, please use my words as I say them not as you want to twist them. I said I liked Coe and Brown better than Hughes.
Oh okay. My bad. But the fact remains that we got it right by going for Trent instead of those guys :up:

[DraftBoy]

Oh okay. My bad. But the fact remains that we got it right by going for Trent instead of those guys :up:

No we didn't, we cannot accurately gauge that at this juncture its not fair to Trent or those guys.

[justasportsfan]

No we didn't, we cannot accurately gauge that at this juncture its not fair to Trent or those guys.
SO FAR its looking that way. We got ourselves a starting qb and all those other guys are back ups

[DraftBoy]

SO FAR its looking that way. We got ourselves a starting qb and all those other guys are back ups

Again I disagree. You cannot accurately gauge that. Your comparing a Day 1 pick to two Day 2 guys from small schools not a fair comparison at this point.

[justasportsfan]

Again I disagree. You cannot accurately gauge that. Your comparing a Day 1 pick to two Day 2 guys from small schools not a fair comparison at this point.

So far, meaning at this point. Fair or not, the results are in. Trent is a starter those 2 small school cbs and on the bench.

You argued that we should've gone for Hughs instead of Trent (now you're telling us you liked the other cb's)
eitherways, we were right in going after Trent over a cb in the 3rd last year.

Stats and facts are there. Trent has conributed more for his team and all of those cb's combined... SO FAR

[DraftBoy]

So far, meaning at this point. Fair or not, the results are in. Trent is a starter those 2 small school cbs and on the bench.

You argued that we should've gone for Hughs instead of Trent (now you're telling us you liked the other cb's)
eitherways, we were right in going after Trent over a cb in the 3rd last year.

Stats and facts are there. Trent has conributed more for his team and all of those cb's combined... SO FAR


So far the results are inconclusive. We don't even know if Trent can be a starter for the whole year.

[Oaf]

Why we picked Cox in the first place is beyond me. Camp fodder and warm bodies are what UDFAs are for. Could of used a developmental prospect almost anywhere else, even QB.

[justasportsfan]

So far the results are inconclusive. We don't even know if Trent can be a starter for the whole year.
You can spin it any way you want but based on contribution, Trent has done more for his team than those sitting at the bench. .

[DraftBoy]

You can spin it any way you want but based on contribution, Trent has done more for his team than those sitting at the bench. .

Its not spin its fact. You cannot accurately grade picks from last year yet.

[justasportsfan]

Its not spin its fact. You cannot accurately grade picks from last year yet.
I can grade the draft at this point in time. Should things change in the future then so be it but for now. Trent contributed more. The facts are there.

[Dr. Lecter]

My philosophy is that you should never have a draft pick not make your 53 man roster.

Then be prepared to tell ~25 teams their drafts are bad.

That is not a realistic expectation and you know it as well as I do.

[Dr. Lecter]

Its not spin its fact. You cannot accurately grade picks from last year yet.

But you can grade guys from this year's draft? Huh?

[John Doe]

Why we picked Cox in the first place is beyond me. Camp fodder and warm bodies are what UDFAs are for. Could of used a developmental prospect almost anywhere else, even QB.

I think that the strategy with Cox was to draft him for the practice squad.

Now, some would argue that all ten draft picks should have made the team. I have to question that line of thinking.

The Bills are a fairly young team to start off with. Lots of 2nd and 3rd year players. It would not seem prudent to add 10 rookies to that mix. Having Cox on the practice squad (if he does not go somewhere else) gives the team added depth at corner and safety.

Given the number of injuries that teams suffer through the entire season, the practice squad is a very important component of the team now.

[DraftBoy]

Then be prepared to tell ~25 teams their drafts are bad.

That is not a realistic expectation and you know it as well as I do.

Ill tell all 32 their pick sucks that didnt make their team. It is a very realistic expectation, some times its not met, things happen and teams have to move on from that. Nobody (or team) is perfect.

[DraftBoy]

But you can grade guys from this year's draft? Huh?

Grade guys? Yes especially when they get cut in the first set of cuts. Thats pretty easy and a bad comparison and you know it.

[DraftBoy]

I can grade the draft at this point in time. Should things change in the future then so be it but for now. Trent contributed more. The facts are there.

Yes you can but it doesnt mean anything. First your opinion is bias, and secondly its too early nobody can grade a draft based on results for about 3 years.

[Dr. Lecter]

Your damn right Im pissed that our biggest draft in years and we can't even pick guys capable of making a team with about as many holes as a slice of swiss cheese. Drafting for depth isn't rocket science here, we aren't talking about the #1 pick, this crap is pretty easy to find good depth guys to at least make the team.

1. You are correct but that does not mean that Cox is a better pick
2. I can name 50 more if you'd like those are just two of the most aggregious
3. Does making the PS, automatically mean something? If he doesn't make it, will you suddenly agree with me that the pick was stupid and sucked?

The Bills make moves everyday I disagree with, but there are some moves that are just painful to watch and our drafting history is not good or even average (yes we went there yesterday no need to rehash). Ive said many time I think I could do a better job if given the shot to do it. But I am also wrong sometimes too (Omar Jacobs, Alex Smith, Delaine Walker, Todd Watkins, Chris Henry, JP Losman, Claude Wroten, etc.) but Im right more often than not (Tavaris Jackson, Marques Colston, Eric Weddle, Jacoby Jones, Laurent Robinson, Kamerion Wimbley, Antonio Cromartie, John McCargo, Thomas Howard, Kellen Clemens, Max Jean-Gilles, etc.). Kennard Cox was a stupid pick when made, but it was made and now we have 1 wasted pick already from the 2008 NFL Draft and nobody can be happy about that.

1. It is not easy to find a draft with all picks making the team and contributing.
2. I can say the pick was bad, but calling the 251st pick overall "stupid" is focusing on minutia and not the big picture.
3. There is no sense in rehashing draft history since you changed your evaluation on a number of players and ignored a number of points made. So we will agree to disagree.
4. Glad to see you think you can do better. Of course, it is not a simple as you like to think and while we can all share opinions there are often other factors. It is a nice theory to think you can do better (albeit a little arrogant), but hindsight is a great tool especially when al the facts are not known to you.
5. I am not saying we should be happy he got cut, just that the idea that finding somebody else is not a lock like you think it is.

I am just glad you were around when drafts were 12 rounds long. You would have really gone nuts with the number of players that were cut each year!

[justasportsfan]

Yes you can but it doesnt mean anything. First your opinion is bias, and secondly its too early nobody can grade a draft based on results for about 3 years.


haha! Bias? You're more bias about YOUR OWN opinions of who you think the bills should've drafted when we drafted Trent.

The facts are there. Go argue with facts until you are blue in the face. Trent was a better pick until further notice.

[Dr. Lecter]

Grade guys? Yes especially when they get cut in the first set of cuts. Thats pretty easy and a bad comparison and you know it.

Jason Peters was once cut in the first wave, so that is not an exact science either.

Sometimes players get cut in the first wave for different reasons.

[Ickybaluky]

My philosophy is that you should never have a draft pick not make your 53 man roster.

I disagree. I think if you have all your draft picks make your team it is most likely the team sucked to begin with.

[DraftBoy]

1. It is not easy to find a draft with all picks making the team and contributing.
2. I can say the pick was bad, but calling the 251st pick overall "stupid" is focusing on minutia and not the big picture.
3. There is no sense in rehashing draft history since you changed your evaluation on a number of players and ignored a number of points made. So we will agree to disagree.
4. Glad to see you think you can do better. Of course, it is not a simple as you like to think and while we can all share opinions there are often other factors. It is a nice theory to think you can do better (albeit a little arrogant), but hindsight is a great tool especially when al the facts are not known to you.
5. I am not saying we should be happy he got cut, just that the idea that finding somebody else is not a lock like you think it is.

I am just glad you were around when drafts were 12 rounds long. You would have really gone nuts with the number of players that were cut each year!

1. Woah, again stick to the words I say, I didnt say contribute I said make the team, dont put words in my mouth.
2. Bad=Stupid, every pick matters not just the first one or two but you know that as well as I do.
3. Changed what evaluation?
4. I know exactly what happens in the war room and the process by which these guys deal with arrogant as it may sounds. Why the hell would I sit here and spend my time doing this stuff if I wasn't confident in my ability to do it. With confidence comes arrogance, its a natural blend. Everybody has some of it in them. If you have any fact to present thats not been presented then please do so but I judge based on what is available not on some mystery fact that may or may not be out there.
5. I think it really is, see I said that we should of taken Henderson or Highsmith before we took Cox, ask a number of people who I spoke with during the draft (Devin and Gr8 are two) and when they make their teams they will prove to have been smarter picks. Its really that simple.

[DraftBoy]

I disagree. I think if you have all your draft picks make your team it is most likely the team sucked to begin with.

You saw the Bills from last year and the last decade...I think the sucking part kind of goes without saying.

[DraftBoy]

Jason Peters was once cut in the first wave, so that is not an exact science either.

Sometimes players get cut in the first wave for different reasons.

You know better.

[justasportsfan]

I think it's hilarious that some people think that a 7th round pick should be a sure thing.

[DraftBoy]

haha! Bias? You're more bias about YOUR OWN opinions of who you think the bills should've drafted when we drafted Trent.

The facts are there. Go argue with facts until you are blue in the face. Trent was a better pick until further notice.

I dont grade drafts years after they happen, so Im not sure what you are talking about. I do grades based only on college exp and where I had them rated on my board.

Facts are incomplete and not finished or even big enough to be accurate.

[DraftBoy]

I think it's hilarious that some people think that a 7th round pick should be a sure thing.

Who said that?

[Dr. Lecter]

You saw the Bills from last year and the last decade...I think the sucking part kind of goes without saying.

I would not say they "sucked" last year.

Not good enough? Sure. The Rams sucked. So did Miami.

THe Bills? Not so much that ten picks needed to make the team, espcially with 17 players coming off IR and 3 key vets joining the team.

[justasportsfan]

Facts are incomplete and not finished or even big enough to be accurate.

Of course you grade them incomplete because the only data we have seems to go against your opinion. The little data we have says you're wrong!

The facts may not be accurate but What else do we have to go by, your opinion again?

We don't know how Turk and his O will turn out. We can only go by the incomplete data called preseason.

[DraftBoy]

I would not say they "sucked" last year.

Not good enough? Sure. The Rams sucked. So did Miami.

THe Bills? Not so much that ten picks needed to make the team, espcially with 17 players coming off IR and 3 key vets joining the team.

Ketchup-Catsup pretty much here, you got a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade, suck is a pretty accurate description of that.

[Ickybaluky]

You saw the Bills from last year and the last decade...I think the sucking part kind of goes without saying.

So... his getting cut is a sign of improvement, right?

BTW, the Pats cut pretty much their entire draft last year (Meriweather and Richardson are the only guys left, and Richardson spent last year on IR and has been hurt all camp). They managed to recover.

The fact is, there are about 255 picks each year, or a little less than 8 per team (with comps). Considering most teams return the bulk of their roster and fill some holes in FA, there aren't that many holes to fill.

It makes no sense to expect all your draft picks to make the team. There just aren't that many jobs open each year.

[DraftBoy]

Of course you grade them incomplete because the only data we have seems to go against you opinion. The little data we have says you're wrong!

What in the hell are you talking about? Maybe in Justa's world half a season is enough to judge a player on but in the real world the people who do this stuff (read: the people who get paid to do this) don't grade for three years. It has nothing to do with my opinion, which you have no idea about because you don't even know where I had Trent rated on my board, so your assumption is just completely off base and ridiculous.

[justasportsfan]

Who said that


My philosophy is that you should never have a draft pick not make your 53 man roster.

[Dr. Lecter]

Ketchup-Catsup pretty much here, you got a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade, suck is a pretty accurate description of that.

So they should have had 10 rookies make the team, 3 new vets, some of the 17 returning players and one or two UDFAs (I threw that one in there)?

They did not need a 25%+ roster turnover.

[DraftBoy]

So... his getting cut is a sign of improvement, right?

BTW, the Pats cut pretty much their entire draft last year (Meriweather and Richardson are the only guys left, and Richardson spent last year on IR and has been hurt all camp). They managed to recover.

The fact is, there are about 255 picks each year, or a little less than 8 per team (with comps). Considering most teams fill the bulk of their roster and fill some holes in FA, there aren't that many holes to fill.

It makes no sense to expect all your draft picks to make the team. There just aren't that many jobs open each year.

Do you think its a sign of improvement? I know the Pats cut the majority of their picks last year, I hated their draft last year and graded it very low. Can't argue with their success but its not my own philosophy.

I expect that when I take a pick (assuming I did) that he makes the team, because he should either be better than somebody else on the team (hence why Im taking him) or be good depth/fill a hole. I dont like the BPA philosophy and I don't often follow it when doing mocks and such.

[DraftBoy]

So they should have had 10 rookies make the team, 3 new vets, some of the 17 returning players and one or two UDFAs (I threw that one in there)?

They did not need a 25%+ roster turnover.

I disagree with that but thats a different argument.

[Dr. Lecter]

And if a guy makes the roster, but never contributes why is it a good pick?

[justasportsfan]

What in the hell are you talking about? Maybe in Justa's world half a season is enough to judge a player on but in the real world the people who do this stuff (read: the people who get paid to do this) don't grade for three years. It has nothing to do with my opinion, which you have no idea about because you don't even know where I had Trent rated on my board, so your assumption is just completely off base and ridiculous.
I don't care where you had Trent. You argued that Hughs could've been had where we drafted Trent.

[DraftBoy]

Where did I say the words "sure thing" which is completely different then just making a roster. For the third time now please use the words I say, not the way you want to twist my words to fit your argument.

[DraftBoy]

And if a guy makes the roster, but never contributes why is it a good pick?

Did I say it was?

[DraftBoy]

nope. You argued that Hughs could've been had where we drafted Trent.

Where? I seriously think you are confusing me with Pat.

[mybills]

BTW, the Pats cut pretty much their entire draft last year (Meriweather and Richardson are the only guys left, and Richardson spent last year on IR and has been hurt all camp). They managed to recover.

and yet you disagree that the Pats are getting too old? :chuckle:

[Dr. Lecter]

Do you think its a sign of improvement? I know the Pats cut the majority of their picks last year, I hated their draft last year and graded it very low. Can't argue with their success but its not my own philosophy.

I expect that when I take a pick (assuming I did) that he makes the team, because he should either be better than somebody else on the team (hence why Im taking him) or be good depth/fill a hole. I dont like the BPA philosophy and I don't often follow it when doing mocks and such.

Bill Polian disagrees with you about the BPA philosophy as do most NFL GMs, espcially in later rounds.


Hell Polian drafted 3 centers this year.

[DraftBoy]

Bill Polian disagrees with you about the BPA philosophy as do most NFL GMs, espcially in later rounds.


Hell Polian drafted 3 centers this year.

2 of which will play OG which fills a depth need for them. They had two of those guys on their board as OG's not OC's.

I know it goes against the grain, I have no issue with that. Im anything but traditional. I like small school players, I like boom or bust guys, I like combine numbers, I prefer late round picks, I dont like BPA.

[Dr. Lecter]

2 of which will play OG which fills a depth need for them. They had two of those guys on their board as OG's not OC's.

I know it goes against the grain, I have no issue with that. Im anything but traditional. I like small school players, I like boom or bust guys, I like combine numbers, I prefer late round picks, I dont like BPA.

Ugh. Way over-rated.

And we know you are not traditional. :D

And boom or bust is great. When the guys boom.

[DraftBoy]

Ugh. Way over-rated.

And we know you are not traditional. :D

And boom or bust is great. When the guys boom.

Not so much so but time will tell, I have a theory Im testing over multiple years.

:respect:

Its a risk for sure, but one Id be willing to take 9 times out of 10.

[justasportsfan]

Where? I seriously think you are confusing me with Pat.on drafting trent


3rd Round-Im not even going to go with thobvious choice of Daymeion Hughes but rather say we could of taken a guy who was falling and arguably had 1st Round talent in Tanard Jackson of Syracuse. He would of been a steal this late and he went early in the 4th to Tampa.

4th Round-Fred Bennett, Tarrelle Brown, Micheal Coe, CJ Gaddis-All good players with 1 raw prospect in Gaddis. Bennett and Brown could of provided great depth imo, and Wright was a questionable pick in the 4th we could of gotten a similar player in the last round or as a UDFA, imo.

6th Round- David Irons, Ryan Smith, Courtney Brown-This pick Im not sure about because some sites list Wendling at CB and some at safety. If he plays CB then it could be a good pick and a real steal, or if he moves Whitner to CB it still gets us depth, but if he just plays S behind Whitner and Ko then we missed on some good value this late.

Honestly I love the idea of Youboty as a starting CB and I think he's going to excel this year, however I think McGee is going to be getting worse and Ive never been sold on him as a starting CB and I thought we should of drafted his replacement. Currently the cupboard is bare and we have to hope that these UDFA show something and that the Wendling situation works itself out.

As for the cop out line "I trust our coaches more than you...blah, blah, blah" All your saying is that you have no real response so instead of intelligently discussing an issue your going to try and hide behind the decision the coaches make. Yes they are more knowledgable, and yes they do much more work than any of us, but they make mistakes, and to say that they know what will come of Youboty is ridiculous. They hope he will play a certain way obviously, but they know no more than we do about what will really happen, so all speculation is fair game. I do think saying he's going to suck bc he was a 3rd round pick is stupid. In all honestly it was really a head scratching draft, and if it works out great, but after a solid 1st rounder, a good 2nd rounder, we really took the path less travelled and didnt get much help for this year.

[DraftBoy]

on drafting trent

Hughes was the obvious choice, as was Jackson both were first round graded players by a number of services and had better college careers which is what Ive already said I judged on. However after that I dropped it and haven't brought it up since my first grade which is why I think you are confusing me with Pat.

[mysticsoto]

Hughes was the obvious choice, as was Jackson both were first round graded players by a number of services and had better college careers which is what Ive already said I judged on. However after that I dropped it and haven't brought it up since my first grade which is why I think you are confusing me with Pat.

Agreed. Justa, Op was also one arguing against Trent strongly. I recall a thread in which I got into it with him and he called Trent a "clipboard holder and nothing more" or something like that.

I wasn't ecstatic with the pick, but I acknowledged that if they liked Trent Edwards that much like they were gushing on about him, then I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...

[DraftBoy]

Agreed. Justa, Op was also one arguing against Trent strongly. I recall a thread in which I got into it with him and he called Trent a "clipboard holder and nothing more" or something like that.

I wasn't ecstatic with the pick, but I acknowledged that if they liked Trent Edwards that much like they were gushing on about him, then I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...

I really think he's confusing me with somebody else, I thought it was Pat because he went nuts when we passed on Hughes for Trent.

[Ickybaluky]

and yet you disagree that the Pats are getting too old? :chuckle:

Actually, it was one of their best drafts. They traded picks in that draft for Randy Moss, Wes Welker and a future #1 that turned into Jarod Mayo, who is starting at ILB as a rookie this year. Outside of getting Brady, it might be their best draft work.

As for them getting old, they are a veteran team. However, if you really look at it the average age of the team is forced up because Belichick loves to keep a group of older veterans around as role players.

If you look at the starters on offense, the average age is about 28 and a half years old.

if you look at the starters on defense, the average age is about 28 and 3/4 years old.

That is prime age, around long enough to know what they are doing but not so old they can't play anymore. The difference between them and some other teams is they keep a lot of veterans around as reserve role players. However, the flip side to that is they win a lot of games, so I can live with it.

[justasportsfan]

Agreed. Justa, Op was also one arguing against Trent strongly. I recall a thread in which I got into it with him and he called Trent a "clipboard holder and nothing more" or something like that.

I wasn't ecstatic with the pick, but I acknowledged that if they liked Trent Edwards that much like they were gushing on about him, then I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...
NO doubt OP did but Draftboy based on that post agreed that it should've been Hughes over Trent.

[DraftBoy]

NO doubt OP did but Draftboy based on that post agreed that it should've been Hughes over Trent.

Based on rankings of the board yes it should of been. How many times are you going to repeat the same point which proves nothing that I haven't already admitted to over again?

[mysticsoto]

Based on rankings of the board yes it should of been. How many times are you going to repeat the same point which proves nothing that I haven't already admitted to over again?

Well, then I'm guilty too. At the time, we had a CB weakness and it seemed prudent to pick a CB who was tall with long hands for a cover 2 type system. When they took Trent, it let me know that they weren't convinced with JP anymore. They talked about Edwards so much and how ecstatic they were at him being available, that I then gave them the benefit of the doubt that maybe he was a pick worth developing. My bigger disappointment was that they didn't take a CB later - which is why we were worried about CB last year. This year, they more than addressed the position - maybe too much. As I've agreed with you now and before, didn't like the Cox pick and felt we could have gotten another position of need - especially since we got 2 DBs and with Ko and Wilson coming back from injury, we'd be fine at S also. My pick would have been a Center!

[mysticsoto]

5 have been released:

<table width="100%" border="0"><tbody><tr><td class="list" width="20%" height="20">August 26</td> <td class="list" width="80%" height="20">released DB Kennard Cox</td></tr> <tr> <td class="list" width="20%" height="20">August 26</td> <td class="list" width="80%" height="20">released WR CJ Hawthorne</td></tr> <tr> <td class="list" width="20%" height="20">August 26</td> <td class="list" width="80%" height="20">released DE Shaun Nua</td></tr> <tr> <td class="list" width="20%" height="20">August 26</td> <td class="list" width="80%" height="20">placed QB Matt Baker on the waived/injured list</td></tr> <tr> <td class="list" width="20%" height="20">August 26</td> <td class="list" width="80%" height="20">released P DJ Fitzpatrick</td></tr></tbody></table>

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/Transactions.jsp

[Night Train]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=158965

[mysticsoto]

Yeah, I just realized that also - I thought that thread was predicting who might, not reporting who was.

Can someone delete this thread?

[Dr. Lecter]

Typical left-winger.

Comes in, starts something that somebody else already started and tries to take credit for it.


:shakeno:

[mysticsoto]

Typical left-winger.

Comes in, starts something that somebody else already started and tries to take credit for it.


:shakeno:

Just shaddup and delete the thread...

[RockStar36]

Merged...