Zone Original: Bryan Ault

[northernbillfan]

Here we go again. It's the same tired old script that we've seen the last two years. The Bills are in a close game against a quality opponent. They get a small lead, become conservative on offense and go dormant. Meanwhile, the D spends too much time on the field and eventually gives up a big play. It comes down to either one last desperate attempt to score, or one last defensive stand for a team that does not respond well to pressure. Everything was exactly the same.

Except for the outcome.

The Bills went into a hostile environment against a tough defense in oppressive conditions. The offense- save for an excellent first drive- didn't play well. The D couldn't get off the field in the third quarter. Special teams were only "special" in the short bus sense.

OpIV's Post Game Review (http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2008/09/15/opivs_post_game_report_week_2.php)

[Captain gameboy]

Being invisible can be good if you are a pass defender.

I'm intrigued by the fact that there are very few shots being taken at our safetys in the middle of the field.

Poz defended some shallow underneath stuff, but I cannot recall one play that our safetys had to defend over the middle.

Could they be pretty good?

Pretty safe be to suggest that Oakland will.
Then we shall see.

[Dr. Lecter]

To be fair though, neither team played so far has had good deep WR talent on the field.

[Captain gameboy]

To be fair though, neither team played so far has had good deep WR talent on the field.

Allowing one completed pass on third down for the entire game, and that for a meaningless two yards, means someone invisible might be playing pretty well.

[Luisito23]

I always enjoy OP's articles, and post in general and this was no different, but I just have two things to ask you brother....How do we know Edwards is no Brady or Manning right now? This is only his 2nd. year in the league and 1st. year in a new offensive system...So far he has greatly exceeded expectations by pretty much everyone here and in the NFL...He has all the physical tools needed to turn out just as good as those two QBs you mentioned, I mean it's a pretty big goal no doubt, but to say what he will, or will not become right now is just inaccurate....Also you say that McKelvin is nothing special as a returner after what just one game? I wonder if people said the same thing about Parrish the first time he went to return a kick?....

[Forward_Lateral]

I thought the Offense played very well against one of the top D's in the NFL.

I agree, the D played well enough to win, but too many missed tackles. They need to fix that. How many times did they have Garrard tackled for a sack, only to have him escape? At least 5.

[OpIv37]

Being invisible can be good if you are a pass defender.

I'm intrigued by the fact that there are very few shots being taken at our safetys in the middle of the field.

Poz defended some shallow underneath stuff, but I cannot recall one play that our safetys had to defend over the middle.

Could they be pretty good?

Pretty safe be to suggest that Oakland will.
Then we shall see.

Could they be pretty good? Maybe.

But a S drafted at #8 should be better than "pretty good". He should be an impact player and make big plays more than 2x a season (and 2x is being generous).

[Dr. Lecter]

By the same token it is hard to make big plays when teams avoid you.

[OpIv37]

By the same token it is hard to make big plays when teams avoid you.

at this point, I don't think we have enough information to know that teams are avoiding Whitner. I don't recall them challenging Simpson too much either. Both offenses we played were banged up and didn't take too many shots downfield. It's possible that they were avoiding Whitner. It's also possible that they just lack deep ball ability because of their injuries. None of us were on their sidelines so we can't make the assumption either way.

[Dr. Lecter]

I agree and made that point earlier.

Niether assumption should be made.

[mysticsoto]

at this point, I don't think we have enough information to know that teams are avoiding Whitner. I don't recall them challenging Simpson too much either. Both offenses we played were banged up and didn't take too many shots downfield. It's possible that they were avoiding Whitner. It's also possible that they just lack deep ball ability because of their injuries. None of us were on their sidelines so we can't make the assumption either way.

Try and remember also Op that the front four are now disruptive and Stroud collapses the pocket frequently, if the opposing QB takes too long to throw. As a result, they frequently only have time for short passes before Stroud is in their face. That's why Whitner is playing up so much and does not need to worry as much about a deep ball possibility. Stopping Jax's tandem (and Julius Jones/Maurice last week) is a testament to Stroud's cascading effect and Whitner has been playing up quite a bit in helping against the run. I think he made several good plays yesterday including the tackle against Drew-Jones as he took a hit.

[trapezeus]

i liked it. now that you mentioned it, i did notice 99 running down some plays 5 ten yards down the field on the sideline. I didn't notice that the rotation was off in the 3rd to potentially give them time to breathe. I know you catch a lot of stuff that i don't pay attention to. Good stuff.

On Mckelvin, i'd say that he was nothing special on this particular sunday, but i think he'll look good. plus with the heat, you can't have Mcgee sprinting the length of the field and then try to return the kick.

[OpIv37]

I always enjoy OP's articles, and post in general and this was no different, but I just have two things to ask you brother....How do we know Edwards is no Brady or Manning right now? This is only his 2nd. year in the league and 1st. year in a new offensive system...So far he has greatly exceeded expectations by pretty much everyone here and in the NFL...He has all the physical tools needed to turn out just as good as those two QBs you mentioned, I mean it's a pretty big goal no doubt, but to say what he will, or will not become right now is just inaccurate....Also you say that McKelvin is nothing special as a returner after what just one game? I wonder if people said the same thing about Parrish the first time he went to return a kick?....

Returning kicks really isn't that much different between college and pro. The pursuit gets there faster, but I just didn't see any difference in speed between McKelvin and the pursuit. When McGee or Parrish get in space, it's clear that they're a step above the competition. It's possible that McKelvin could get better but I don't see it yet.

As far as Edwards- I don't recall what happened to Manning but Brady was developed slowly as a back up. Trent was thrown to the wolves. I can't see a QB who's shellshocked from college and forced into action in the NFL developing the pocket presence of a Manning or a Brady. And even if he does, I can't see Buffalo running that style of offense (especially with our WR's and without a true receiving threat at TE).

[OpIv37]

Here we go again. It's the same tired old script that we've seen the last two years. The Bills are in a close game against a quality opponent. They get a small lead, become conservative on offense and go dormant. Meanwhile, the D spends too much time on the field and eventually gives up a big play. It comes down to either one last desperate attempt to score, or one last defensive stand for a team that does not respond well to pressure. Everything was exactly the same.

Except for the outcome.

The Bills went into a hostile environment against a tough defense in oppressive conditions. The offense- save for an excellent first drive- didn't play well. The D couldn't get off the field in the third quarter. Special teams were only "special" in the short bus sense.

OpIV's Post Game Review (http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2008/09/15/opivs_post_game_report_week_2.php)

thanks for posting but I just noticed that my "looking forward/general comments" section got cut off on the home page

[Luisito23]

Returning kicks really isn't that much different between college and pro. The pursuit gets there faster, but I just didn't see any difference in speed between McKelvin and the pursuit. When McGee or Parrish get in space, it's clear that they're a step above the competition. It's possible that McKelvin could get better but I don't see it yet.

As far as Edwards- I don't recall what happened to Manning but Brady was developed slowly as a back up. Trent was thrown to the wolves. I can't see a QB who's shellshocked from college and forced into action in the NFL developing the pocket presence of a Manning or a Brady. And even if he does, I can't see Buffalo running that style of offense (especially with our WR's and without a true receiving threat at TE).



Cool OP...I really did enjoy your article bro....:hi5:

[justasportsfan]

....How do we know Edwards is no Brady or Manning right now? lets not get ahead of ourselves here. I know he isn't Brady yet because if he was the refs would've blown the whistle when Trent got sacked and fumbled and the refs would've given the ball back to Brady.

[madness]

Good write up but I suggest leaving your unwarranted biased opinions out of your articles. That's what kills most writers.

Whitner wasn't "spectacular" but was all over the field yesterday. He did his job and Whitner is one tackle short of once again leading the team in tackles. Knock him all you want but these are the types of players that Marv always talks about and loves. If every player on a team did his job, you most likely won't lose and won't need another player to have to make a "spectacular" play in the first place.

The poor defense excuse looks like it may be out the window so why don't you just let it go and let the kid play? There's no doubt that this is a defining season for him, especially being in his 3rd year.

McKelvin also wasn't "spectacular" but isn't doing any worse then McGee for return avg. (1.2 yards better).

[OpIv37]

Good write up but I suggest leaving your unwarranted biased opinions out of your articles. That's what kills most writers.

Whitner wasn't "spectacular" but was all over the field yesterday. He did his job and Whitner is one tackle short of once again leading the team in tackles. Knock him all you want but these are the types of players that Marv always talks about and loves. If every player on a team did his job, you most likely won't lose and won't need another player to have to make a "spectacular" play in the first place.

The poor defense excuse looks like it may be out the window so why don't you just let it go and let the kid play? There's no doubt that this is a defining season for him, especially being in his 3rd year.

McKelvin also wasn't "spectacular" but isn't doing any worse then McGee for return avg. (1.2 yards better).


If the "poor defense" excuse is out the window, then Whitner should make big plays. He hasn't.

And you are simply wrong about Whitner being "all over" the field. I was watching for him and he simply wasn't there.

The bias here isn't mine- it's yours. Many people on this board- you included- can't handle the slightest criticism of Whitner. It doesn't matter how poor (or in this case, not poor but unremarkable) his play is- in your eyes, the criticism is NEVER warranted. I'm not really sure why, but for some reason, Whitner is untouchable around here and I'm really sick of it.

The guy was drafted at #8. So far, he's decent at helping in run support. He never gets his hands on the ball or makes big hits in the passing game, let alone get interceptions. He's average at best but no one here wants to see it. It's frustrating as hell.

[madness]

If the "poor defense" excuse is out the window, then Whitner should make big plays. He hasn't.

And you are simply wrong about Whitner being "all over" the field. I was watching for him and he simply wasn't there.

The bias here isn't mine- it's yours. Many people on this board- you included- can't handle the slightest criticism of Whitner. It doesn't matter how poor (or in this case, not poor but unremarkable) his play is- in your eyes, the criticism is NEVER warranted. I'm not really sure why, but for some reason, Whitner is untouchable around here and I'm really sick of it.

The guy was drafted at #8. So far, he's decent at helping in run support. He never gets his hands on the ball or makes big hits in the passing game, let alone get interceptions. He's average at best but no one here wants to see it. It's frustrating as hell.

No, it's frustrating as hell trying to explain to someone who could give a **** about everybody else's opinion if it isn't on the same page as you. Get a clue man, I'm not about to argue with Mr. "nobody can prove me wrong and if they do I barely admit it". He's a safety!!! Hmm... I wonder why they're were named that in the first place. They aren't supposed to be playmakers and the ones that are... are RARE exceptions.

If I'm simply wrong about him not being all over the field then the stat trackers need to hired by you, so you can blantly lie about his play. You're just simply a hater. Always was... always will be.

[OpIv37]

No, it's frustrating as hell trying to explain to someone who could give a **** about everybody else's opinion if it isn't on the same page as you. Get a clue man, I'm not about to argue with Mr. "nobody can prove me wrong and if they do I barely admit it". He's a safety!!! Hmm... I wonder why they're were named that in the first place. They aren't supposed to be playmakers and the ones that are... are RARE exceptions.

If I'm simply wrong about him not being all over the field then the stat trackers need to hired by you, so you can blantly lie about his play. You're just simply a hater. Always was... always will be.

I'm a hater because I expect a guy we pick at #8 to be a playmaker? That's absolutely ridiculous.

I watched the game. TWICE. I know what I saw. I'm not going to stop believing what I saw with MY OWN EYES because some people on a message board can't handle criticism of Whitner.

If I was a hater I would have said he was terrible. If I was a hater I wouldn't have even mentioned the one good play I saw him make. But that's not what I did. I reported what I saw. He made one good stop at the LOS on a running play. He had a few other tackles but they were downfield and he wasn't around the ball in the passing game. That's what happened. He wasn't terrible, but this was yet another game where he didn't do anything to justify being the 8th pick in the draft.

I don't know why that's so hard for you to hear, but it's the truth.

[madness]

I'm a hater because I expect a guy we pick at #8 to be a playmaker? That's absolutely ridiculous.

I watched the game. TWICE. I know what I saw. I'm not going to stop believing what I saw with MY OWN EYES because some people on a message board can't handle criticism of Whitner.

If I was a hater I would have said he was terrible. If I was a hater I wouldn't have even mentioned the one good play I saw him make. But that's not what I did. I reported what I saw. He made one good stop at the LOS on a running play. He had a few other tackles but they were downfield and he wasn't around the ball in the passing game. That's what happened. He wasn't terrible, but this was yet another game where he didn't do anything to justify being the 8th pick in the draft.

I don't know why that's so hard for you to hear, but it's the truth.

Only McGee has more tackles then him so far this year. Where the heck do you expect a safety to make most of his tackles... behind the line?

The Jags didn't even have 200 yards passing but still was involved and was a force in the run game. He helped forced 1 incompletion, stopped short two big gains from possibly turning into a TD (one pass, one run) and he had two stops for no gains and two tackles 5 and under, one which one was a screen.

...and the truth is if you're going to justify a player on his draft position, you're in for a big letdown 90% of time.

[OpIv37]

Only McGee has more tackles then him so far this year. Where the heck do you expect a safety to make most of his tackles... behind the line?

The Jags didn't even have 200 yards passing but still was involved and was a force in the run game. He helped forced 1 incompletion, stopped short two big gains from possibly turning into a TD (one pass, one run) and he had two stops for no gains and two tackles 5 and under, one which one was a screen.

...and the truth is if you're going to justify a player on his draft position, you're in for a big letdown 90% of time.

I don't want a S making tackles in the run game because that means the front 7 AREN'T making the tackles.

And EVERY tackle stops big gains. That's his job as a S- you said it yourself. And that's exactly what I said he did- he was unspectacular. He wasn't a liability but he didn't make big plays.

If our draft picks are a letdown 90% of the time, then we're the Detroit Lions.

[mysticsoto]

Well from Chris Brown's POV, looks like Dante did okay:


BEST DISPLAY OF TOUGHNESS: Donte Whitner – After losing his helmet and making a tackle Whitner’s left eye was almost completely swollen shut and needed three stitches, but he came back in the game and finished tied for second in tackles.

[OpIv37]

Well from Chris Brown's POV, looks like Dante did okay:






I'll give him points for toughness. But playing tough isn't the same as playing well.

[Captain gameboy]

I don't want a S making tackles in the run game because that means the front 7 AREN'T making the tackles.

And EVERY tackle stops big gains. That's his job as a S- you said it yourself. And that's exactly what I said he did- he was unspectacular. He wasn't a liability but he didn't make big plays.

If our draft picks are a letdown 90% of the time, then we're the Detroit Lions.

The more unspectacular our safety's are, the more I like our chances.

Whitner is playing the run and the pass, and he is doing very well at it.

Sometimes he lines up at his classic safety position.
Sometimes he lines up closer to a linebacker position.
Often, he is close to the line.

I couldn't care less where he was drafted or who came before or after.

He is clearly doing well.

[madness]

I don't want a S making tackles in the run game because that means the front 7 AREN'T making the tackles.

And EVERY tackle stops big gains. That's his job as a S- you said it yourself. And that's exactly what I said he did- he was unspectacular. He wasn't a liability but he didn't make big plays.

If our draft picks are a letdown 90% of the time, then we're the Detroit Lions.

I haven't seen an NFL safety NOT make plays in the run game... unless he obviously stinks.

You said he was invisible and didn't do anything this afternoon.

That's not what I said and you accuse me of comprehension problems. :shakeno: