Article on Whitner

[mysticsoto]

Bills’ Whitner reigns, with help from his secondary minions

The best thing about the Buffalo Bills' defense playing generally well is that it's given safety Donte Whitner the chance to play specifically well, as he's excelling this season at his style of vengeful football. Everyone else doing their jobs and holding their ground allows him to be on the prowl, creating nightmares on Sunday afternoons with his instinctual attacks against two offenses so far. The competence of this 2008 edition gives Whitner the freedom to forge a different path thanks to both his and the group’s respective maturity.

He’s managed six tackles in each of Buffalo’s games, but it’s the way he's been ending plays when he wants to and not when the ball carrier does that makes Whitner such a prize. More notably, he’s getting a chance to roam the field like a focused madman, allowing him to truly come into his own. That’s thanks to not only his own development but also because of the fact he has better talent playing alongside him than was deployed as recently as his rookie season. Defensive coordinator Perry Fewell is finally using Whitner as a wild card with his other face cards in place.


http://www.realfootball365.com/index.php/articles/bills/12646

[justasportsfan]

OP's problem with Whitner is that he wants to see big plays reflected in Donte's stats.

[gr8slayer]

OP's problem with Whitner is that he wants to see big plays reflected in Donte's stats.
Who doesn't? Anytime you draft a guy that high he should be a game changer. As long has he continues to improve (which he has) I'm not really that worried about him. He's been pretty damn solid and I guarantee you he'd be welcomed with open arms here in Dallas over Roy Williams.

[justasportsfan]

Who doesn't? Anytime you draft a guy that high he should be a game changer. As long has he continues to improve (which he has) I'm not really that worried about him. He's been pretty damn solid and I guarantee you he'd be welcomed with open arms here in Dallas over Roy Williams.


I do too but sometimes people are quietly contibuting in a way that they are allowing others to make the plays.

[gr8slayer]

I do too but sometimes people are quietly contibuting in a way that they are allowing others to make the plays.
I won't argue that, I actually like the attitude Whitner has brought to the defense. They kind of have a swagger this year and I think that he has a lot to do with that.

And you know what? A lot of people want to compare everyone to Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, etc.... but even they haven't looked that great over the past two seasons.

[madness]

The question of who benefits from whom is ultimately irrelevant; the important point is that everyone is benefiting.

Spot on.

[Pinkerton Security]

My favorite quote:

"...especially when he’s facing energetic sprites like Greer."


Those guys at RF365 spend to much time thinking of clever similes and cute little additions to the article, but they rarely have much of a main component: CONTENT. they ramble about the painfully obvious crap, and thats it.

[OpIv37]

what the hell is he talking about? That doesn't even remotely reflect what I saw on the field from Whitner.

[mysticsoto]

what the hell is he talking about? That doesn't even remotely reflect what I saw on the field from Whitner.
I understand what he's saying about Whitner being a wildcard. Haven't you seen Whitner up on the line on many occasions? He's probably confusing the hell out of our opponents QBs...is he going to blitz? Is he there for run support? Is he just faking and going to drop back? Yet something else for a QB to have to keep track off amidst it all. I think Whitner is being pretty effective...

Not everyone's success should be judged by ints or sacks...

[OpIv37]

I understand what he's saying about Whitner being a wildcard. Haven't you seen Whitner up on the line on many occasions? He's probably confusing the hell out of our opponents QBs...is he going to blitz? Is he there for run support? Is he just faking and going to drop back? Yet something else for a QB to have to keep track off amidst it all. I think Whitner is being pretty effective...

Not everyone's success should be judged by ints or sacks...

how about passes defensed? or big hits? Or being around the ball in the passing game?

Not everyone's success should be assumed because of the name on the back of their jersey.

[raphael120]

I saw a guy with Youboty on his back making more of a, well, visible impact than the guy wearing Whitner.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not all impacts are visible

[yordad]

I saw a guy with Youboty on his back making more of a, well, visible impact than the guy wearing Whitner.Might that be because they don't throw the ball where Whitner is, and they do throw the ball to where Youboty is? Not to mention, they don't play the same position.

[raphael120]

Might that be because they don't throw the ball where Whitner is, and they do throw the ball to where Youboty is? Not to mention, they don't play the same position.

Im just sayin, defensive impact players who ARE visible, I have only seen Whitner stuff one run in the Jags game, and I dont remember him doing anything in the Seahawks game. But i know he's doing good back there. Hell, you dont hear Ellisons name at all but is that good or bad? It's bad because he's not doing anything very impactful but its kinda good because it means that he's not getting burned.

But it will sure be nice to see him have some key pass breakups or an INT. McGee has been stellar so far, having a great INT in two straight games.

[madness]

For the record...

Two ppl here who claim that he wasn't visible both only saw him stuff a run once, when in fact he did it twice.

http://www.thoughttheater.com/WearingBlinders.jpg

[justasportsfan]

Im just sayin, defensive impact players who ARE visible, I have only seen Whitner stuff one run in the Jags game, and I dont remember him doing anything in the Seahawks game. But i know he's doing good back there. Hell, you dont hear Ellisons name at all but is that good or bad? It's bad because he's not doing anything very impactful but its kinda good because it means that he's not getting burned.

But it will sure be nice to see him have some key pass breakups or an INT. McGee has been stellar so far, having a great INT in two straight games.


when role players are doing what they are supposed to do the entire D plays well. Looks like our D has been playing well. We're 2-0 and part of that is that our D has been finishing games.

[OpIv37]

Not all impacts are visible
This is exactly the type of Whitner apology that drives me insane.

The guy doesn't do anything that anyone noticed, yet people still insist he had an impact.

Give me a ****ing break.

[Dr. Lecter]

Roy Williams puts up pretty stats and all that crap, but Whitner is 5X the player Williams is.

My point is, and you know this, that stats alone are not an evaluation.

And it is not about being an apologist. It is pointing out that all of your reasons are not necessarily valid.

[OpIv37]

For the record...

Two ppl here who claim that he wasn't visible both only saw him stuff a run once, when in fact he did it twice.

http://www.thoughttheater.com/WearingBlinders.jpg

the guy was a #8 overall draft pick. He should do more than stuff 2 runs a game. He should do more than get 1 INT a season.

And I don't know where they got two run stuffs. I watched Whitner as much as the TV coverage allows and I specifically looked at the end of every play to see if he was anywhere near it.

In fact, a few times I thought I saw Whitner miss a tackle but I re-wound it to be sure and it turns out it was Ko.

I did the opposite of what you're accusing me of- if Whitner made or missed a play, I made damn sure it was him.

[Dr. Lecter]

the guy was a #8 overall draft pick. He should do more than stuff 2 runs a game. He should do more than get 1 INT a game.



I see.

So now only NFL record breaking seasons are acceptable?

Yes he has the #8 pick. It would be nice if he was better than Ronnie Lott. But he isn't and is only in his 3rd year.

Fact is you have set the bar so high for him, he will never hit it unless he is Lott and Tatum rolled into one.

[OpIv37]

Roy Williams puts up pretty stats and all that crap, but Whitner is 5X the player Williams is.

My point is, and you know this, that stats alone are not an evaluation.

And it is not about being an apologist. It is pointing out that all of your reasons are not necessarily valid.

I agree.... stats alone are not evaluation. But two points:

1. Whitner's stats are TERRIBLE. They're almost non-existent. While stats don't tell the whole story, they do tell a good part of it.

2. You're making the faulty assumption that my evaluation of Whitner is based solely on stats. It's not. I actually watch him play during the games instead of just saying "he made an impact" based solely on his reputation.

[OpIv37]

I see.

So now only NFL record breaking seasons are acceptable?

Yes he has the #8 pick. It would be nice if he was better than Ronnie Lott. But he isn't and is only in his 3rd year.

Fact is you have set the bar so high for him, he will never hit it unless he is Lott and Tatum rolled into one.

Sorry, that was a typo. It was supposed to say 1 INT a SEASON cuz that's what he's done so far.

1 INT a game is ridiculous- a team is lucky to get that, let alone a player.

[madness]

Then I guess you're not happy with Bob Sanders' play either because he avg. about 2 run stuffs per game and exactly 1 INT per season.

[OpIv37]

Then I guess you're not happy with Bob Sanders' play either because he avg. about 2 run stuffs per game and exactly 1 INT per season.

Bob Sanders at least makes big hits and plays on the ball.

The Colts D was terrible when Sanders was injured. It got INSTANTLY better the second he stepped on the field.

Bob Sanders had 2 INT's last year to Whitner's 1. Bob Sanders had 6 passes defensed to Whitner's 1. Bob Sanders had two forced fumbles to Whitner's 0.

Obvious conclusion: Sanders is far superior to Whitner both in terms of stats and in terms of impact on the field.

Next.

[madness]

Really Sanders is better than Whitner? Get out of town. :rolleyes:

Thanks Captain Obvious.

No one is saying he's a top 5 safety. Heck, he isn't even a top 10 safety in my opinion but yet you think everybody else thinks that.

[madness]

Stats are useless if you keep ignoring the big picture.

A safety's stats depends on everything from the scheme to how good every single position on the field is.

[Dr. Lecter]

Sorry, that was a typo. It was supposed to say 1 INT a SEASON cuz that's what he's done so far.

1 INT a game is ridiculous- a team is lucky to get that, let alone a player.

Good. You were scaring the **** out of me with those expectations.

[OpIv37]

Really Sanders is better than Whitner? Get out of town. :rolleyes:

Thanks Captain Obvious.

No one is saying he's a top 5 safety. Heck, he isn't even a top 10 safety in my opinion but yet you think everybody else thinks that.

dude, this article is about how Whitner makes an "invisible impact." I really don't think my premise about people overrating Whitner is all that far-fetched.

[mysticsoto]

Op, just for you, last night I rewatched the JAX game and SOLELY concentrated on Whitner on every defensive play. This is what I saw:

Why doesn't Whitner have more interceptions? Well Garrard only had 3 completions across the middle in the 1st half - and two of those were short in the LB territory toward the end of the 2nd qtr when they were in the 2 minute offense and when we blitzed a couple of times. In the 2nd half he threw 4 times across the middle for completions. He had 2 more incomplete. Overall, Garrard just didn't throw alot across the middle. To the edges he threw 8 times with 5 completions. In general, our Dline collapsed the pocket often and Garrard just didn't have time to throw.

You only remember 1 tackle? He had 4 that I saw:
- 1st qtr 7 mins, he tackled Fred Taylor when he lined up on the line
- end of 2nd qtr, tackle (forgot who)
- 3rd qtr 11 mins left - blitzed and tackled RB (don't remember if it was Taylor or Drew-Jones). This was a nice play. He acted lackadasical close to the line like he was just pretending to blitz and was going to drop back and then sprinted forward full speed.
- 3rd qtr 9 min left - a tackle stopping a big run that had begun over on the sideline

Other notable mentions:
- Appeared ready to blitz next to Kelsay, then, once the ball was snapped - dropped back quickly calling attention to himself by the qb, before Garrard could react from looking at him, Youboty was in his face with a sack.
- Blitzed disrupting the play about 3rd qtr and 3 mins left. He didn't get to make the tackle here, but his blitz forced Fred Taylor to pause and stutter step and then get subsequently tackled for no gain.
- 4th qtr and 4 min, blitzed. Didn't get the sack, but forced the qb to hurry and into an incomplete pass.

One negative I will give to him in this game. The TD by Jax, was on his side and though he got a piece of the RB, he was not able to stop him from getting in. He did have 6'8", 266 lb tight end on his back at the time, but I won't use excuses. A stop there would have been nice.

Still, all in all, Whitner lined up in many places - so I understand the author of the article calling him a wild card. You just don't know what to expect from him. He may or may not line up on the line, just behind, left, right, traditional S spot, etc. He did line up a great deal next to Kelsay and seemed to do best from there. Oh, and overall, b'cse of the heat, like many other players, he was also rotated out quite a bit. So he wasn't always on the field in EVERY defensive play.

But overall, I saw good things from Whitner and confirmed that I think your expectations are just unfounded for him. His play has different effects that are not always tangible. I'll use as an example the fake blitz that forced Garrard to keep an eye on him, then as he ran backward really fast (causing Garrard to look at him) Youboty was in his face before he could react. That may seem inconsequential to you, but to me Whitner's distraction enabled Youboty to have that sack. Intangibles like that will keep us winning - if not loading up his stat sheet - and I'm fine with that!!!

[Dr. Lecter]

BTW, Bob Sanders is injured again and will miss another 4-6 weeks.

Durability is another factor to be considered.

[The Spaz]

BTW, Bob Sanders is injured again and will miss another 4-6 weeks.

Durability is another factor to be considered.

I just saw that as well about Sanders. Apparently Whitner got injured during the Jaguars game as well:

Donte Whitner � after losing his helmet and making a tackle Whitner�s left eye was almost completely swollen shut and needed three stitches, but he came back in the game and finished tied for second in tackles.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

[justasportsfan]

Op, just for you, last night I rewatched the JAX game and SOLELY concentrated on Whitner on every defensive play. This is what I saw:

Why doesn't Whitner have more interceptions? Well Garrard only had 3 completions across the middle in the 1st half - and two of those were short in the LB territory toward the end of the 2nd qtr when they were in the 2 minute offense and when we blitzed a couple of times. In the 2nd half he threw 4 times across the middle for completions. He had 2 more incomplete. Overall, Garrard just didn't throw alot across the middle. To the edges he threw 8 times with 5 completions. In general, our Dline collapsed the pocket often and Garrard just didn't have time to throw.

You only remember 1 tackle? He had 4 that I saw:
- 1st qtr 7 mins, he tackled Fred Taylor when he lined up on the line
- end of 2nd qtr, tackle (forgot who)
- 3rd qtr 11 mins left - blitzed and tackled RB (don't remember if it was Taylor or Drew-Jones). This was a nice play. He acted lackadasical close to the line like he was just pretending to blitz and was going to drop back and then sprinted forward full speed.
- 3rd qtr 9 min left - a tackle stopping a big run that had begun over on the sideline

Other notable mentions:
- Appeared ready to blitz next to Kelsay, then, once the ball was snapped - dropped back quickly calling attention to himself by the qb, before Garrard could react from looking at him, Youboty was in his face with a sack.
- Blitzed disrupting the play about 3rd qtr and 3 mins left. He didn't get to make the tackle here, but his blitz forced Fred Taylor to pause and stutter step and then get subsequently tackled for no gain.
- 4th qtr and 4 min, blitzed. Didn't get the sack, but forced the qb to hurry and into an incomplete pass.

One negative I will give to him in this game. The TD by Jax, was on his side and though he got a piece of the RB, he was not able to stop him from getting in. He did have 6'8", 266 lb tight end on his back at the time, but I won't use excuses. A stop there would have been nice.

Still, all in all, Whitner lined up in many places - so I understand the author of the article calling him a wild card. You just don't know what to expect from him. He may or may not line up on the line, just behind, left, right, traditional S spot, etc. He did line up a great deal next to Kelsay and seemed to do best from there. Oh, and overall, b'cse of the heat, like many other players, he was also rotated out quite a bit. So he wasn't always on the field in EVERY defensive play.

But overall, I saw good things from Whitner and confirmed that I think your expectations are just unfounded for him. His play has different effects that are not always tangible. I'll use as an example the fake blitz that forced Garrard to keep an eye on him, then as he ran backward really fast (causing Garrard to look at him) Youboty was in his face before he could react. That may seem inconsequential to you, but to me Whitner's distraction enabled Youboty to have that sack. Intangibles like that will keep us winning - if not loading up his stat sheet - and I'm fine with that!!!


Op wants to see it in the stats. Going by stats, Wilson should be in there over Whitner and Simpson.

[OpIv37]

Op, just for you, last night I rewatched the JAX game and SOLELY concentrated on Whitner on every defensive play. This is what I saw:

Why doesn't Whitner have more interceptions? Well Garrard only had 3 completions across the middle in the 1st half - and two of those were short in the LB territory toward the end of the 2nd qtr when they were in the 2 minute offense and when we blitzed a couple of times. In the 2nd half he threw 4 times across the middle for completions. He had 2 more incomplete. Overall, Garrard just didn't throw alot across the middle. To the edges he threw 8 times with 5 completions. In general, our Dline collapsed the pocket often and Garrard just didn't have time to throw.

You only remember 1 tackle? He had 4 that I saw:
- 1st qtr 7 mins, he tackled Fred Taylor when he lined up on the line
- end of 2nd qtr, tackle (forgot who)
- 3rd qtr 11 mins left - blitzed and tackled RB (don't remember if it was Taylor or Drew-Jones). This was a nice play. He acted lackadasical close to the line like he was just pretending to blitz and was going to drop back and then sprinted forward full speed.
- 3rd qtr 9 min left - a tackle stopping a big run that had begun over on the sideline

Other notable mentions:
- Appeared ready to blitz next to Kelsay, then, once the ball was snapped - dropped back quickly calling attention to himself by the qb, before Garrard could react from looking at him, Youboty was in his face with a sack.
- Blitzed disrupting the play about 3rd qtr and 3 mins left. He didn't get to make the tackle here, but his blitz forced Fred Taylor to pause and stutter step and then get subsequently tackled for no gain.
- 4th qtr and 4 min, blitzed. Didn't get the sack, but forced the qb to hurry and into an incomplete pass.

One negative I will give to him in this game. The TD by Jax, was on his side and though he got a piece of the RB, he was not able to stop him from getting in. He did have 6'8", 266 lb tight end on his back at the time, but I won't use excuses. A stop there would have been nice.

Still, all in all, Whitner lined up in many places - so I understand the author of the article calling him a wild card. You just don't know what to expect from him. He may or may not line up on the line, just behind, left, right, traditional S spot, etc. He did line up a great deal next to Kelsay and seemed to do best from there. Oh, and overall, b'cse of the heat, like many other players, he was also rotated out quite a bit. So he wasn't always on the field in EVERY defensive play.

But overall, I saw good things from Whitner and confirmed that I think your expectations are just unfounded for him. His play has different effects that are not always tangible. I'll use as an example the fake blitz that forced Garrard to keep an eye on him, then as he ran backward really fast (causing Garrard to look at him) Youboty was in his face before he could react. That may seem inconsequential to you, but to me Whitner's distraction enabled Youboty to have that sack. Intangibles like that will keep us winning - if not loading up his stat sheet - and I'm fine with that!!!

Interceptions: That explains this game but not the other 31 games he's played.

Tackles: I know he had more than one tackle. He was credited with 6. But most of them are exactly what I said: Unremarkable. He makes a tackle on an RB 5 yards downfield. Jeff Posey could do that. In fact, on one play he got lit up by Jones-Drew. The so-called "hard hitter" RECEIVED more big hits than he dished out.

Notable mentions: Players show blitz then back out of it all the time. The reason it worked is because Fewell has shown a willingness to blitz. Whitner deserves some credit for knowing where and when to fake the blitz, but this isn't anything spectacular or uncommon. It's part of the job.

His play has different effects that are NEVER tangible. A S drafted at #8 should do more than intangibles. Big hits, passes defensed, passes tipped, INT's, forced fumbles.... where are they? At the very least, he should be able to make big hits and occasionally force a fumble coming up in run support, but he doesn't.

[OpIv37]

Op wants to see it in the stats. Going by stats, Wilson should be in there over Whitner and Simpson.

F stats.

I want him to make an impact. Faking a blitz? One tackle for a loss? That's not what I consider "impact".

[OpIv37]

Really Sanders is better than Whitner? Get out of town. :rolleyes:

Thanks Captain Obvious.

No one is saying he's a top 5 safety. Heck, he isn't even a top 10 safety in my opinion but yet you think everybody else thinks that.


Just out of curiousity: Why is it acceptable for you to compare Whitner to Sanders when the stats favor Whitner but not acceptable for me to compare Whitner to Sanders when the stats favor Sanders?

Either there's a comparison or there isn't, but don't nitpick one or two stats where they're close then dismiss the whole idea of a comparison when I come up with a whole pile of stats that show Sanders is better.

[gr8slayer]

Then I guess you're not happy with Bob Sanders' play either because he avg. about 2 run stuffs per game and exactly 1 INT per season.
Comparing Whitner to Sanders is flat out crazy. Sanders, when healthy, strikes fear into the opposition, Whitner is still working on that.

[justasportsfan]

F stats.

I want him to make an impact. Faking a blitz? One tackle for a loss? That's not what I consider "impact".

Making the players around you better is not an impact? Mkay!

[Mitchell55]

how about passes defensed? or big hits? Or being around the ball in the passing game?

Not everyone's success should be assumed because of the name on the back of their jersey.




Hes had about 4 big hits. Hes not a pass type of S. Hes more into run stopping.

[Mitchell55]

Making the players around you better is not an impact? Mkay!





He acts like Whitner stole his girl. Also, why did Op go from I want Donte to have more pd and then say stats dont mean anything. He wants Whitner to be Tatum but he wont.

[Mitchell55]

Interceptions: That explains this game but not the other 31 games he's played.

Tackles: I know he had more than one tackle. He was credited with 6. But most of them are exactly what I said: Unremarkable. He makes a tackle on an RB 5 yards downfield. Jeff Posey could do that. In fact, on one play he got lit up by Jones-Drew. The so-called "hard hitter" RECEIVED more big hits than he dished out.

Notable mentions: Players show blitz then back out of it all the time. The reason it worked is because Fewell has shown a willingness to blitz. Whitner deserves some credit for knowing where and when to fake the blitz, but this isn't anything spectacular or uncommon. It's part of the job.

His play has different effects that are NEVER tangible. A S drafted at #8 should do more than intangibles. Big hits, passes defensed, passes tipped, INT's, forced fumbles.... where are they? At the very least, he should be able to make big hits and occasionally force a fumble coming up in run support, but he doesn't.





Dude, he almost broke Drews neck and you say Drew knocked whitner out. Op, you have 1 serious problem.

[mysticsoto]

He acts like Whitner stole his girl. Also, why did Op go from I want Donte to have more pd and then say stats dont mean anything. He wants Whitner to be Tatum but he wont.

Maybe that's it? Maybe Dora has a crush on Donte? :D

[mysticsoto]

Interceptions: That explains this game but not the other 31 games he's played.

Tackles: I know he had more than one tackle. He was credited with 6. But most of them are exactly what I said: Unremarkable. He makes a tackle on an RB 5 yards downfield. Jeff Posey could do that. In fact, on one play he got lit up by Jones-Drew. The so-called "hard hitter" RECEIVED more big hits than he dished out.

Notable mentions: Players show blitz then back out of it all the time. The reason it worked is because Fewell has shown a willingness to blitz. Whitner deserves some credit for knowing where and when to fake the blitz, but this isn't anything spectacular or uncommon. It's part of the job.

His play has different effects that are NEVER tangible. A S drafted at #8 should do more than intangibles. Big hits, passes defensed, passes tipped, INT's, forced fumbles.... where are they? At the very least, he should be able to make big hits and occasionally force a fumble coming up in run support, but he doesn't.

Wrong. A few of the tackles he made were for no gain or even a small loss. And Jones-Drew delivers hard hits on ALOT of people - that's not a negative on Donte.

You're dancing around the issues b'cse you don't want to like guy. That's fine. Up to you. But I watched the game closely to see exactly what he was doing on each play and thought he played well. He's solid, he's not a liability and he tackles really well. No ints, fumbles or sacks? Well, the ball wasn't thrown his way much for ints. Fumbles, he could probably work on that as he tends to tackle low to ensure he doesn't lose you (kinda like Antoine Winfield) and sacks? Well, a QB pressure that he forces into an incomplete pass is just as good to me as a sack.

[Jan Reimers]

Gee, I always thought Donte sucked. sarcasm/off.

Actually, he is developing nicely as a player and team leader. We have a habit on this board of throwing guys under the bus if they are not immediate superstars.

[OpIv37]

Dude, he almost broke Drews neck and you say Drew knocked whitner out. Op, you have 1 serious problem.

you're out of your ****ing mind. Even the announcers commented on how hard MJD hit Whitner. Whitner's head went back like a rag doll.

[OpIv37]

Wrong. A few of the tackles he made were for no gain or even a small loss. And Jones-Drew delivers hard hits on ALOT of people - that's not a negative on Donte.

You're dancing around the issues b'cse you don't want to like guy. That's fine. Up to you. But I watched the game closely to see exactly what he was doing on each play and thought he played well. He's solid, he's not a liability and he tackles really well. No ints, fumbles or sacks? Well, the ball wasn't thrown his way much for ints. Fumbles, he could probably work on that as he tends to tackle low to ensure he doesn't lose you (kinda like Antoine Winfield) and sacks? Well, a QB pressure that he forces into an incomplete pass is just as good to me as a sack.

I watched him closely and thought he played poorly. And even if he did play "solid," "solid" isn't good enough. There are plenty of "solid" safeties who didn't cost their team a #8 draft pick.

[OpIv37]

Gee, I always thought Donte sucked. sarcasm/off.

Actually, he is developing nicely as a player and team leader. We have a habit on this board of throwing guys under the bus if they are not immediate superstars.

:rolleyes:

The guy doesn't make big plays. He's practically invisible on the field.

No one's talking about being a superstar. Let's start with a big play here and there and making an impact. Whitner can't even handle that.

But, no one on this board wants to hear any criticism of him, so when someone like me points out that he's not a factor on the field, I get attacked with BS accusations of "wanting a superstar" or "wanting to see stats."

It's ridiculous.

[Dr. Lecter]

I watched him closely and thought he played poorly. And even if he did play "solid," "solid" isn't good enough. There are plenty of "solid" safeties who didn't cost their team a #8 draft pick.

There is no way he played "poorly". If you want to say he is not playing worthy of the #8 pick or making enough impact, that is reasonable.

But to say he played poorly is hyperbole.

[OpIv37]

There is no way he played "poorly". If you want to say he is not playing worthy of the #8 pick or making enough impact, that is reasonable.

But to say he played poorly is hyperbole.

ok, I agree with that.

I got caught up in the argument.

My initial assessment of him was "incomplete"- ie, wasn't bad but wasn't good either.