Henry would be worth more than Ricky Willams .....

[Tatonka]

ok.. hear me out..

the boards will be lit up for weeks to come with the raging debate about draft picks and Henry's feelings and McGahee's recovery and contract... but i just wanted you guys to look at this for a second.

The Bills FO believes that WM is going to be 100% again.. seem that the thought is by the end of this year. So he will either be on PUP or IR.. regardless... this is Henry's year to really shine. All the pieces are in place for henry to do extremely well and he should surpass last years numbers.. there is no question in my mind. He will catch more with no Centers around, and we wont be passing as much, therefore his carries should go up. i am going to predict henry getting at least the 1500 yards rushing he got last year. and at least 500 yards receiving that he would have got if he was not sharing with centers last year.

take a look at henry over the first 3 years then with his projected numbers for this year (these projection could very well end up much higher)

Henry -
2001 - 213 carries for 729 yards and 22 catches for 179 yards + 4 TDs
2002 - 325 carries for 1438 yards and 43 catches for 309 yards + 14 TDs
2003 - 350 carries for 1500 yards and 60 catches for 500 yards + 14 TDs (projected)
*27 total fumbles in that time (using last years 11 fumbles again for 2003)

Now look at Ricky Williams career when he was traded...
1999 - 253 carries for 884 yards and 28 catches for 172 yards + 2 TDs
2000 - 248 carries for 1000 yards and 44 catches for 409 yards + 9 TDs
2001 - 313 carries for 1245 yards and 60 catches for 511 yards + 7 TDs
*20 total fumbles in that time.

From what i can see.. Henry is much further along than Williams was when he netted 2 first rounders. so your telling me that a back with better numbers and just as much potential is gonna get anything less than 2 firsts? if not more? no way..

so look at it this way guys.. Henry is now money (actually draft picks) in the bank if he performs like he should this year and WM gets healthy and looks like the stud we expect.

and if WM doesnt come back, then we keep travis for the next three years.. which is really the window for our superbowl win that we are all hoping for.


:feedback:

[TypicalBill]

but which team would give up all those draft picks?? Only Miami :D

[Tatonka]

not necessarily.. i think teams also saw how well the miami trade worked out for them (simply based on his production, not their record) so a team like the texans, who will have a desperate need for a RB next year is a very likely canidate..

every year teams need RBs that are capable of pushing for 2k in yards.. and i think henry is one of those backs.

[BagdadBob]

No Way!


Ricky Williams was a 1st round draft pick- top 10- and graded out that way!

Travis Henry was not- You will be lucky to get a first round draft pick for him. Maybe from the stupid Vikings... they apparently don't know how to use them!

[Tatonka]

what the hell difference does where they are drafted matter after they have been in the league for 3 years? none.. all that matters is that TH has outproduced RW in his first three years.

[TypicalBill]

if we get 2 first rounders for him, that would be awesome. I hope you're right Tatonka...


But we still dont know if WM is gonna return to his old form, even if he's fully recovered, who's to say that he's gonna run as fast as he did before and do those running cuts that he used to... we still have to wait and see. For now, Henry is the sure bet and he's our solid starter until proven otherwise.

[HenryRules]

I don't want us to trade Travis ... the guy is the next Emmitt Smith with better hands.

[Alluro]

Travis Henry isn't anywhere near the gamebreaker Ricky williams is...I really think the Bills should trade him now because i don't think his trade value will ever be higher. Olandis Gary is good enough to get through the early to mid season to let Willis come on in the end. I would love to see a deal with the houston texans for their first next year and the rights to drew henson.

[HenryRules]

Drew Henson won't sign. That'd be a bad trade.

[Kevikid]

The rights to Drew Henson means nothing, since we will not have the rookie cap space to pay for him. We will most certainly use it up on our current rookies, as teams always do. Henson will want a lot when he quits baseball in 2 years. Thundercasts, ho!

[Tatonka]

alluro, TH can do everything that RW can do.. he can easily put up the season totals that RW put up last season.. and probably will this year.

Typical.. i am not arguing that TH is our back.. and if WM doesnt work out.. i wont lose a bit of sleep over it.. knowing henry is here in buffalo

Henryrules - i love henry too.. but the best player stays..

[Alluro]

Originally posted by Kevikid
Thundercasts, ho!

LMAO ! !

[Kevikid]

Thundercats...

[iceblizzard69]

Henry would definitely NOT get as much on the trade market as Ricky did. Ricky may not have produced as well in New Orleans, but he was everything coming out of college, and he was unhappy which hurt his production. Everyone knew that Ricky wasn't be used properly and was too heavy in New Orleans.

Henry was a second round pick who may be good, but he just isn't Ricky Williams, and he just won't get as much in a trade as Ricky did. Henry could be traded for a late first round pick I guess, but the Bills would not get more than that.

[Alluro]

Didn't Ricky Williams break off not one but TWO 50 yd runs against the Bills late in the year? And that was just one game... Do you know what Travis Henry's longest run of the season was? IT WAS 26 YDS ! ... Ricky Williams is an explosive back with speed while Travis is more of a plodder in the mold of Rodney Hampton or Barry Foster.

[Ebenezer]

i agree you could fetch alot for Henry...however, teams will know that TD has two backs. I fear that you might only get a first and something else.

[Alluro]

I'd take a first from the Cowboys and Joey Galloway since they are going to cut him anyway(allegedly after june 1st)

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by iceblizzard69

Henry was a second round pick who may be good, but he just isn't Ricky Williams, and he just won't get as much in a trade as Ricky did. Henry could be traded for a late first round pick I guess, but the Bills would not get more than that.

your right.. why would nfl personell guys want to trade anything since he was a 2nd rounder.. who has produced at an extremely high level... production is nothing.. draft slot means all! especially after 3 years in the league.. :rolleyes:

the guy could be in position to break 2k in yardage this year on the ground alone.. i am sure people would think nothing of that though..

emmitt smith didnt break alot of long runs either..

and how many long runs did ricky have in his first 3 years?

[Alluro]

Ricky was depressed and overweight for his first three years...Coming out of college though he was the shiznit ( and i freaking hate ricky williams, i don't want to defend him)...There's just a fundamental difference in their talent level regardless of production. I doubt very seriously Travis Henry will ever approach Ricky's yardage total from this season. And to tell you the truth, i think this was a career year for him with Moulds and Price drawing the attention of the defense. It would be shrewd, but i think a very wise move if donahoe traded him now while he can still get a first rounder for him.

[lordofgun]

There's no way TD trades Henry now. The last thing I want is Olandis Gary to be our starter for the entire year.

My prediction:

This year: TH is the feature back all year. McGahee never touches the ball...at least in the regular season.

Next year: TH is still the featured back, but McGahee gets more and more time.

Before the 2005 season: Henry is traded in the offseason for at least 2 #1 picks. There will be enough demand from enough teams that we won't have any trouble getting at least that for him. It doesn't matter that teams know we have 2 RBs. These teams are going to look at what TH can do for them, and they WILL be competing for him. This drives TH's value way up and we take the best offer.

And Tatonka, I think you're right that TH has more value at this point. It's ******ed to say that because RW was more highly touted coming out of college that we'll get less for Henry just because he's was a second-round pick. IceBlizzard, You mean to tell me we couldn't have got 2 first-rounders for Thurman Thomas in his prime because he was a second-round pick? Give me a break!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by lordofgun
Tatonka, I think you're right

join the masses! :D

[lordofgun]

:offtopic: :rolleyes:



:D

[Alluro]

If McGahee is healthy, he is the starter in '04.

[Tatonka]

:bling:

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by Alluro
If McGahee is healthy, he is the starter in '04.

I just don't see it. He needs time in game-situations to make sure he's the real deal. I don't think he gets that time this year.

If we trade Henry away with no proof the McGahee can get it done, I will kill someone.

[Fat Tony]

:couch:

[HenryRules]

Us having two feature backs will not dampen our bargaining position for a while because neither one (I'm guessing on WM) has a large cap hit, so its not a necessity that we trade one of them. Even if Henry ends up being our backup, which I don't think he will, in 2005 that's still a cap hit of around 1.5 mil if my memory is correct, not cheap, but not outrageous if we give him 10 carries or so a game.

Other teams will only have the upper hand if we have to get rid of Henry, until he's a free agent, that's not the case.

Another way to look at it, we got a 1st rounder for Peerless Price. How many people would trade Peerless for Henry, esp. considering the limited cap hit for Henry?

[Captain gameboy]

Ricky Williams if far closer to being the total package than Travis Henry.
Regardless, whenever I hear talk of Henry's inability to break one, I always wonder what he might have done if Peerless ever blocked. Just a thought.
No matter, he isn't nearly as valuable as RW, and there's nobody in the league, I'd guess, who wouldn't worry about his proclivity to put in on the turf.

[Tatonka]

did anyone worry about RWs fumbling as much as he does?

RW had 14 his first two years..

henry had 16 his first two years

[Ð]

http://microscopeworld.com/images/138-microscopes-med.jpg

[mikemac2001]

thurman was a 2nd round pick and he was a solid RB could do everything Dont hate on the 2nd rounders dillion was one to 1st round isnt the most important

[Kicker22705]

Don't forget the original proposal for Ricky was a 1st and a 3rd, not 2 firsts. It wasn't until he met all the quota that the dolphins gave 2 first rounders. 2 first is a stretch, a 1st and a mid-late rounder seems more likely, and thats only if he duplicates lasts year's number's minus the fumbles.

I think its safe to say the offense is built around Henry this year, resulting more attention from defenses to key in on him. It'll be interesting to see how Travis handles the situation. If he can repeat least years numbers against 8 men fronts, he'll demand a lot of attention on the trading block.

[Demon]

Originally posted by TypicalBill
but which team would give up all those draft picks?? Only Miami :D

I dont know if it's already said but Houston i think would give alot of Henry. They have 3 good WR's, a young QB, very good OL and their defense is full of vets. Their weakness is RB and there won't be any excellent RB's next year unless Clarett comes to the NFL which is doubtful and between Clarrett and Henry i would still pick Henry. I would say a fair trade (assuming Houston picks top 5 next year)

Houston: Travis Henry, Bills 2nd Round pick
Buffalo: Houston 1st Round Pick, Houston 2nd round pick and Houston 5th round pick.

Then we can draft DT Vince Wilfolk (They say hes as good as Warren Sapp) with the Houston pick, Kellen Winslow Jr. with our 1st rounder and our QB of the future Casey Clausen early in the second round with Houston's 2nd rounder.

[Ingtar33]

Clausen is going first round early... unless he has an awful year.

[Demon]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
Clausen is going first round early... unless he has an awful year.

No way. Theres not a big need for QB's next season and Eli Manning will cleary be the #1 qb taken. The Miami oh Ohio QB prolly second and that might be it for the first round. The Oregon qb might make into the first round but who knows. Clausen doesn't have much WR's this year so he wont be awsome, hes gonna be mid to late 2nd rounder.

He didn't have a good season last year with no WR's and this year his WR's wont get better so dont expect huge #'s.

[Captain gameboy]

Wow.
We haven't had our first minicamp yet, and we've we've got our pro bowl running back replaced by a guy who hasn't proven he can play this year, and replaced by draft choices to be made a year-out with other team's picks.
It's amazing how clear the future is when you have a few hundred GM's doing pro bono work. JK

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by gameboy
Wow.
We haven't had our first minicamp yet, and we've we've got our pro bowl running back replaced by a guy who hasn't proven he can play this year, and replaced by draft choices to be made a year-out with other team's picks.
It's amazing how clear the future is when you have a few hundred GM's doing pro bono work. JK

Nicely put.......

McGahee may never reach 100% and could end up being the biggest 1st round draft bust in Bills history. Personally, I'm not sold on the guy and think that it was pretty ballsy to throw a 1st round pick onto an injured back. The way the draft was moving, if Oakland passes on him he falls to the Bills in the second. Henry is solid and quickly proving himself. Granted he made just as many mistakes as the rest of the team did last season but let's cut him some slack and hope that he's regrouped from his fumblitis. I feel it only necessary to reward the work horses that play major roles in getting you far. McGahee has a lot to prove.

[Kevikid]

Tennessee would've taken him...or New England. I'm sure there are a lot of teams that had a lot of interest.

[Earthquake Enyart]

McGahee will play this year.

The Bills will trade TH to the first decent team whose big time back blows out a knee.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE


Nicely put.......

McGahee may never reach 100% and could end up being the biggest 1st round draft bust in Bills history. Personally, I'm not sold on the guy and think that it was pretty ballsy to throw a 1st round pick onto an injured back. The way the draft was moving, if Oakland passes on him he falls to the Bills in the second. Henry is solid and quickly proving himself. Granted he made just as many mistakes as the rest of the team did last season but let's cut him some slack and hope that he's regrouped from his fumblitis. I feel it only necessary to reward the work horses that play major roles in getting you far. McGahee has a lot to prove.

Worse than Walt Patulski? #1 overall?

Worse than Perry Tuttle? Worse than Booker Moore? Worse than Tom Rudd? Worse than Al Cowlings?

[Earthquake Enyart]

Worse than Tom Cousineau?

[BillsFanInMass]

Nobody will be questioning this pick if Henry goes down with injury mid season and WM comes in fresh 100% half way threw the year and tears it up!!!!

[HenryRules]

Houston's OL sucks.

[Tatonka]

i didnt even mean for this to come accross like we must trade henry.. i love henry.. honestly.. i think he is great back.. i was just trying to think of a way that the people who were unhappy about the pick could look at it in another way..

i was basically saying.. henry is picks in the bank if WM turns out to be a stud.. and if he doesnt.. we lost a free 1st rounder while taking a chance on greatness (oh well, drew was our #14 pick)..

[TedMock]

Didn't we take Ronnie Harmon in the first round of 1986? He split time in 1987, had less than half the carries but was really starting to come into his own especially as a receiver. From what I remember he had a good average per carry and caught quite a few balls that year. He was also a college all american. It looked like he was going to have a nice career in Buffalo. We also had a nice veteran backup with Rob Riddick. Everybody thought we were nuts when we drafted Thurman in 1988, partly because we didn't need a RB and partly because the year before he blew out his knee playing pick up basketball. I know this years situation is different but hey, ya never know. Luckily Henry has an extension and there's no need to rush this kid back into it. Even if it's two years from now that he's the full time starter, he'll only be 23.

[pmoon6]

Originally posted by Dozerdog


Worse than Walt Patulski? #1 overall?

Worse than Perry Tuttle? Worse than Booker Moore? Worse than Tom Rudd? Worse than Al Cowlings? how about Tony Hunter,J.D.Williams, and Eric Flowers.

[WCoastFin]

Originally posted by Tatonka
ok.. hear me out..

the boards will be lit up for weeks to come with the raging debate about draft picks and Henry's feelings and McGahee's recovery and contract... but i just wanted you guys to look at this for a second.

The Bills FO believes that WM is going to be 100% again.. seem that the thought is by the end of this year. So he will either be on PUP or IR.. regardless... this is Henry's year to really shine. All the pieces are in place for henry to do extremely well and he should surpass last years numbers.. there is no question in my mind. He will catch more with no Centers around, and we wont be passing as much, therefore his carries should go up. i am going to predict henry getting at least the 1500 yards rushing he got last year. and at least 500 yards receiving that he would have got if he was not sharing with centers last year.

take a look at henry over the first 3 years then with his projected numbers for this year (these projection could very well end up much higher)

Henry -
2001 - 213 carries for 729 yards and 22 catches for 179 yards + 4 TDs
2002 - 325 carries for 1438 yards and 43 catches for 309 yards + 14 TDs
2003 - 350 carries for 1500 yards and 60 catches for 500 yards + 14 TDs (projected)
*27 total fumbles in that time (using last years 11 fumbles again for 2003)

Now look at Ricky Williams career when he was traded...
1999 - 253 carries for 884 yards and 28 catches for 172 yards + 2 TDs
2000 - 248 carries for 1000 yards and 44 catches for 409 yards + 9 TDs
2001 - 313 carries for 1245 yards and 60 catches for 511 yards + 7 TDs
*20 total fumbles in that time.

From what i can see.. Henry is much further along than Williams was when he netted 2 first rounders. so your telling me that a back with better numbers and just as much potential is gonna get anything less than 2 firsts? if not more? no way..

so look at it this way guys.. Henry is now money (actually draft picks) in the bank if he performs like he should this year and WM gets healthy and looks like the stud we expect.

and if WM doesnt come back, then we keep travis for the next three years.. which is really the window for our superbowl win that we are all hoping for.


:feedback:


Put down the crack pipe and back away from you keyboard slowly......

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Worse than Tom Cousineau?


At least Cousineau got us Kelly

[Akhippo]

If Henry has a year like last hes two first rounders in the bank. You dont think a detroit or houston or arizona would kill to have Henry right now.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by WCoastFin



Put down the crack pipe and back away from you keyboard slowly......

way to back that idiotic statement with anything of some substance to prove me wrong.. :pee:

[Stewie]

I think Travis would bring in a very similar trade, a #1 and another conditional pick that could be a #1

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog


Worse than Walt Patulski? #1 overall?

Worse than Perry Tuttle? Worse than Booker Moore? Worse than Tom Rudd? Worse than Al Cowlings?

Possibly. If he becomes a "bust", critics will say it was the injury and then point out that the Bills made a horrible mistake drafting an injured back that could easily have dropped to the 3rd round. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard Bills fan and hope the best for the team. I just think that he was too much of a gamble.

[Tatonka]

maybe he drafted WM to be our third down back :D

[Jersey1031]

the reason why miami got so many draft picks for ricky, was because all those numbers he put up in his first year at miami. in the Saints/Fins trade the better he did the more picks miami had to give new orleans...and ricky had a huge numbers his first season wit the fins. if we were able to make a trade like that, we'd benefit more if henry had a good season on his new team, and he will with a decent oline.

[Tatonka]

the fish gave up one 1st round pick for him and the 2nd was a conditional pick.. so the reason they got two 1st round picks for him was his great season.. but they were getting a 1st and a 4th no matter what.