Props to Darcy Regier!

[Michael82]

I didn't think he could do it, but he went from being hated by the fans for the way the Sabres kept letting all their players go to earning our respect again. I gotta admit, I really didn't think he'd do it. I was counting on either Ryan Miller or Jason Pominville to leave, but he did it, just like he also locked up Jochen Hecht, Paul Gaustad, Derek Roy, Thomas Vanek. :bf1:

[Dr. Pepper]

just think, if we had re-signed drury, briere, and campbell (any 2 of the 3) theres no way in hell we keep vanek miller and pominville. somehow the whole free agent debacle of the past couple years is swinging back in our favor. didnt see that one coming..

[LivingTheLife]

It's nice to have a good player locked up.

[Michael82]

just think, if we had re-signed drury, briere, and campbell (any 2 of the 3) theres no way in hell we keep vanek miller and pominville. somehow the whole free agent debacle of the past couple years is swinging back in our favor. didnt see that one coming..
Good point. :up:

[BlackMetalNinja]

Good point. :up:Are you f'n kidding me??? How long have a couple of us been saying exactly that while you *****ed and moaned the whole time, now all the sudden it's a "good point"???? God Mikey, you are King Flip Flopper.

[Philagape]

just think, if we had re-signed drury, briere, and campbell (any 2 of the 3) theres no way in hell we keep vanek miller and pominville. somehow the whole free agent debacle of the past couple years is swinging back in our favor. didnt see that one coming..

Yeah, good thing we didn't keep the players that gave us a real shot at the Cup so we could keep players who haven't even led us to the playoffs yet! :phew:

[Michael82]

Are you f'n kidding me??? How long have a couple of us been saying exactly that while you *****ed and moaned the whole time, now all the sudden it's a "good point"???? God Mikey, you are King Flip Flopper.
Bite me. I'm in a good mood today, so I'm saving my *****ing even though we had another good chance at the cup last year, but pissed it away by giving our stud players away for nothing. :ill:

[Ebenezer]

Yeah, good thing we didn't keep the players that gave us a real shot at the Cup so we could keep players who haven't even led us to the playoffs yet! :phew:
you are mad because they did the opposit of what you would have done....they made two runs and then cut the ties and started to build for the future...you would have continued to bankrupt the future...re: New York Yankees, MLB.

[Philagape]

you are mad because they did the opposit of what you would have done....they made two runs and then cut the ties and started to build for the future...you would have continued to bankrupt the future...re: New York Yankees, MLB.

Yeah, I'm sure Yankees fans totally regret the course they've taken over the past 15 years or so. If asked, I'm sure they'd be glad to give back the four Series titles they won in that time. How bout it, Mikey?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah, good thing we didn't keep the players that gave us a real shot at the Cup so we could keep players who haven't even led us to the playoffs yet! :phew:
Yes we all agree on this man but can we agree that it seems as if they have learned from their mistakes?

[Ebenezer]

Yes we all agree on this man but can we agree that it seems as if they have learned from their mistakes?
no...phil will still be pissing about it when he is 90 if they don't win a cup...failing to realize they were a worse play off team the second go round than the first.

[Dr. Lecter]

Bringing the Yankees into the conversation is a bad argument. There is no cap in baseball and the Yankess have a much, much larger economic base.

[RockStar36]

I know it's hard to realize this, but did it ever occur to some people that maybe the Sabres had a nice two year run but didn't win the Cup so management realized they would have to let some of the older players to go in anticipation that in the coming years they would need that money to lock up the younger core players? Like I said, I know this is a hard concept but try to think about it for a little bit.

[Philagape]

no...phil will still be pissing about it when he is 90 if they don't win a cup....

Damn right.

Pro sports is meaningless without championships.

[RockStar36]

Damn right.

Pro sports is meaningless without championships.

:rofl:

That coming from a fan of Buffalo teams makes me laugh.

[Dr. Lecter]

Meaningless?

Then why so fixated on CD and DB? They did not win with them, so in your theory they are failures.

Quite honestly, right now I would prefer the Sabres having Pominville than Briere as he is a better player.

[Philagape]

Championships is the reason they play. It's the purpose of their existence.

[Philagape]

:rofl:

That coming from a fan of Buffalo teams makes me laugh.

Yes, we lowly Buffalo fans should just be happy to have teams, right? Winning titles is for other cities. Who do we think we are to demand championships?

[Philagape]

Meaningless?

Then why so fixated on CD and DB? They did not win with them, so in your theory they are failures.

Quite honestly, right now I would prefer the Sabres having Pominville than Briere as he is a better player.

Their time was trying was cut short.
I think the results of what happened -- both the Sabres and the Flyers -- speak for themselves

[Ebenezer]

I know it's hard to realize this, but did it ever occur to some people that maybe the Sabres had a nice two year run but didn't win the Cup so management realized they would have to let some of the older players to go in anticipation that in the coming years they would need that money to lock up the younger core players? Like I said, I know this is a hard concept but try to think about it for a little bit.
I think that is what I have been trying to say. If not DR would have lost his job long ago.

[Ebenezer]

Their time was trying was cut short.
I think the results of what happened -- both the Sabres and the Flyers -- speak for themselves
crap I missed that....the Flyers won the cup last year. Congrats, Philly. :bf1:

In case you didn't notice they bearly squeaked by the NYI and NYR on the way to getting ramrodded by the Sens. They were not a good playoff team the second go round.

[Dr. Lecter]

Their time was trying was cut short.
I think the results of what happened -- both the Sabres and the Flyers -- speak for themselves

Their contracts expired and the two were into their primes, while guys like ROy, Vanek and Pominville are entering their's. The Sabres would not have won without Vanek and Roy last year either.

This is not like MLB where teams can go and but whomever they want. You build and plan not just for one season, but rather for current and future seasons.

And excuse me, the Flyers did not win a championship last year so they had no success, correct?

[Philagape]

crap I missed that....the Flyers won the cup last year. Congrats, Philly. :bf1:

In case you didn't notice they bearly squeaked by the NYI and NYR on the way to getting ramrodded by the Sens. They were not a good playoff team the second go round.

Well the third time ... oh wait, there wasn't a third time ....

[Philagape]

Their contracts expired and the two were into their primes, while guys like ROy, Vanek and Pominville are entering their's. The Sabres would not have won without Vanek and Roy last year either.

This is not like MLB where teams can go and but whomever they want. You build and plan not just for one season, but rather for current and future seasons.

And excuse me, the Flyers did not win a championship last year so they had no success, correct?

They got a lot closer. Relative success, if not ultimate success, is measured only by how close you get to the Cup.
Yes, current and future seasons ... and the Sabres pissed away the current, so there goes half the equation.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Well the third time ... oh wait, there wasn't a third time ....Yeah, there wasn't because the team was worse than the previous year the 2nd time around. But don't worry, we'll all enjoy the trip to the postseason this year, and hey, we even have a shot at going a few years in a row now because we locked up some real good, young talent! :up:

Try not to let your misery keep you from enjoying it at least a little bit too.

[Philagape]

Yeah, there wasn't because the team was worse than the previous year the 2nd time around. But don't worry, we'll all enjoy the trip to the postseason this year, and hey, we even have a shot at going a few years in a row now because we locked up some real good, young talent! :up:

Try not to let your misery keep you from enjoying it at least a little bit too.

I've set my bar. Until then, it's merely entertainment. Like pro wrestling.

[Ebenezer]

Well the third time ... oh wait, there wasn't a third time ....
truthfully? they should have been home after the first round...they were pitiful that post-season.

[Dr. Lecter]

They got a lot closer. Relative success, if not ultimate success, is measured only by how close you get to the Cup.
Yes, current and future seasons ... and the Sabres pissed away the current, so there goes half the equation.

Newsflash - teams are not contenders every year.

Like you said, sports is meaningless w/o championships. So, therefore, the Flyers were meaningless last year.

As for pissing away the current, you conviently ignore the point that w/o Roy and Vanek (who would have gone had they kept Briere and Drury) they would have had a hell of a time winning.

You build for a run. The Sabres did that and it did not succeed. So you re-load and try again.

Being this bitter and refusing to say they did the right thing this offseason by extending Miller, Pominville and trading for Rivet is silly. That is all most of are trying to say.

[RockStar36]

I've set my bar. Until then, it's merely entertainment. Like pro wrestling.

So what exactly was your bar set at before the lockout?

[Ebenezer]

I've set my bar. Until then, it's merely entertainment. Like pro wrestling.
then turn it off...why hurt yourself in that way...or do you just like to make yourself miserable? Truthfully, the way you are taking this whole thing you act as if they stole your kid. Give it a rest already. The night they lost to Carolina I went to work to have my first patient be some kid. There are things in life way way more important.

[RockStar36]

Yes, we lowly Buffalo fans should just be happy to have teams, right? Winning titles is for other cities. Who do we think we are to demand championships?

That wasn't my point.

My point was you talk all high and mighty like unless they win the championship they are garbage and you would spit on them if you saw them in public.

You have an attitude that I would expect from a Yankee fan or a fan of a team that has won multiple championships.

Seeing that Buffalo has never won a championship, you must live a pretty miserable life.

[Ebenezer]

They got a lot closer. Relative success, if not ultimate success, is measured only by how close you get to the Cup.
Yes, current and future seasons ... and the Sabres pissed away the current, so there goes half the equation.
four Bills SB loses...awe, hell...they should have gone for five...damn RW. I hate him forever...I will now be pissed at every game I ever attend.

[Philagape]

then turn it off...why hurt yourself in that way...or do you just like to make yourself miserable? Truthfully, the way you are taking this whole thing you act as if they stole your kid. Give it a rest already. The night they lost to Carolina I went to work to have my first patient be some kid. There are things in life way way more important.

Well let's just shut down the Zone then, especially if certain opinions aren't welcome.

[RockStar36]

I love it. Seriously.

If the Sabres didn't extend Pominville and Miller this whole season would've been *****ing about it. So the FO is proactive, signs both to long term deals for good money, and we STILL ***** about it. Talk about a lose-lose.

[Ebenezer]

Well let's just shut down the Zone then, especially if certain opinions aren't welcome.
why shut off the zone because you are miserable...even when our teams lose nobody carries on like this but you and Op. It's been over two years...move on.

[Philagape]

Newsflash - teams are not contenders every year.

Like you said, sports is meaningless w/o championships. So, therefore, the Flyers were meaningless last year.

As for pissing away the current, you conviently ignore the point that w/o Roy and Vanek (who would have gone had they kept Briere and Drury) they would have had a hell of a time winning.

You build for a run. The Sabres did that and it did not succeed. So you re-load and try again.

Being this bitter and refusing to say they did the right thing this offseason by extending Miller, Pominville and trading for Rivet is silly. That is all most of are trying to say.

I've already said good things about this offseason.
And no, that is NOT all people are trying to say. They're also saying that this is vindication for the FO, that it makes up for what you agree were mistakes, that the skeptics are wrong even though as of right now, the new-era team has yet to make the playoffs.
And my reply is, they'll be vindicated when they get back to where they were, because that's the only way to make up for it. I'm saying, I'll wait for the results before I agree.
It's those people who were looking to pick a fight, and I bit.
A team is vindicated by how much it tries to win a championship, and its measure of success is whether or not they achieve that goal.

[Philagape]

I love it. Seriously.

If the Sabres didn't extend Pominville and Miller this whole season would've been *****ing about it. So the FO is proactive, signs both to long term deals for good money, and we STILL ***** about it. Talk about a lose-lose.

I haven't said a bad word about THIS offseason. I'll evaluate it according to the results.

[Ebenezer]

I've already said good things about this offseason.
And no, that is NOT all people are trying to say. They're also saying that this is vindication for the FO, that it makes up for what you agree were mistakes, that the skeptics are wrong even though as of right now, the new-era team has yet to make the playoffs.

Find me one post where I said I agree with the moves. Find me one post where I "vindicated" the FO. I explained the possible reasons behind what happened in response to your opinion that they are a bunch of bozos who just found out how to run a business.

[Ebenezer]

I haven't said a bad word about THIS offseason. I'll evaluate it according to the results.
In other words you are going to ***** until they win a cup...we got it.

[Philagape]

That wasn't my point.

My point was you talk all high and mighty like unless they win the championship they are garbage and you would spit on them if you saw them in public.

You have an attitude that I would expect from a Yankee fan or a fan of a team that has won multiple championships.

Seeing that Buffalo has never won a championship, you must live a pretty miserable life.

Why should fans in different cities have different attitudes? The goal is the same. If anything, a history of zero titles should increase the demand for one.

[rbochan]

crap I missed that....the Flyers won the cup last year. Congrats, Philly...

Perhaps not, but they did come back from being dead last (or second to dead last, I forget which) from the season before. It was a damn fine comeback for them.

[Philagape]

Find me one post where I said I agree with the moves. Find me one post where I "vindicated" the FO. I explained the possible reasons behind what happened in response to your opinion that they are a bunch of bozos who just found out how to run a business.

Are you the only one here? OMG
I wasn't even replying to you.

[Ebenezer]

Perhaps not, but they did come back from being dead last (or second to dead last, I forget which) from the season before. It was a damn fine comeback for them.
yes...but they did a hell of a lot more than just add DB...it's not like he single handedly pulled them from the bowels of hell.

[Ebenezer]

Why should fans in different cities have different attitudes? The goal is the same. If anything, a history of zero titles should increase the demand for one.
It really is time to "turn the other cheek" and let go...Honestly, if they made a serious run (conference final) but didn't win this year would you still go on like you do now? Because you have already said they don't get vindicated until they win it. Are you serious about that?

[Philagape]

It really is time to "turn the other cheek" and let go...Honestly, if they made a serious run (conference final) but didn't win this year would you still go on like you do now? Because you have already said they don't get vindicated until they win it. Are you serious about that?

I said they'll be vindicated when they get back to the level they were at (nine posts above)

[Ebenezer]

I said they'll be vindicated when they get back to the level they were at (nine posts above)
Got it...President trophy winners that squeaked by two weaker teams and got pommeled by the Sens. :up:

[Philagape]

I guess the Broncos should have let Elway go after losing three SBs

The Red Wings should have dumped Yzerman after he went 13 seasons with no Cup

When you get close, you keep trying with the guys who led you there.

[Ebenezer]

I guess the Broncos should have let Elway go after losing three SBs

The Red Wings should have dumped Yzerman after he went 13 seasons with no Cup

When you get close, you keep trying with the guys who led you there.
again, both examples you give were pre-Salary Cap.

Why are you not upset with the Bills to this day for not going for a fifth SB? Do you still hold the bar at a SB appearence?

[RockStar36]

I guess the Broncos should have let Elway go after losing three SBs

The Red Wings should have dumped Yzerman after he went 13 seasons with no Cup

When you get close, you keep trying with the guys who led you there.

You never answered the question.

What was your bar set at before the lockout?

[Ebenezer]

You never answered the question.

What was your bar set at before the lockout?
hell...I was happy to see them stay in town.

[Philagape]

You never answered the question.

What was your bar set at before the lockout?

The goal is the same every year. The credit I give is proportional to how much they try and how feasible it is.
For example, if the Bills don't win the SB this year, it's a failure but I won't feel bad about it because I didn't see them as a legit contender to begin with.
I want players and front offices to do their best to win a title. If I don't feel they're doing that, I'll ride them.
There's failure to achieve a goal, and there's failure to try, or give up prematurely. I can live with the first, not the second.

[Philagape]

again, both examples you give were pre-Salary Cap.

Why are you not upset with the Bills to this day for not going for a fifth SB? Do you still hold the bar at a SB appearence?

They tried, and they kept it going as long as they could by committing to the leaders who got them there. They failed, and I was disappointed, but not upset. There's a difference.

[RockStar36]

The goal is the same every year. The credit I give is proportional to how much they try and how feasible it is.
For example, if the Bills don't win the SB this year, it's a failure but I won't feel bad about it because I didn't see them as a legit contender to begin with.
I want players and front offices to do their best to win a title. If I don't feel they're doing that, I'll ride them.
There's failure to achieve a goal, and there's failure to try, or give up prematurely. I can live with the first, not the second.

Ok, fair enough.

Now basically what you're saying is that the FO didn't try because they let Briere and Drury walk.

But are you denying that maybe after the two year run and realizing that those two guys weren't taking the team to the Finals, let alone winning it, that they decided they needed to focus money on the younger core and build for more runs instead of sink money into aging guys that may or may not lead the team to the Cup?

Do you not think this was part of the plan from the beginning?

[RockStar36]

They tried, and they kept it going as long as they could by committing to the leaders who got them there. They failed, and I was disappointed, but not upset. There's a difference.

By committing to the leaders who got them there do you mean they cut those guys and didn't even tell them, instead letting them find out via ESPN Bottomline while watching tv at home?

[Philagape]

By committing to the leaders who got them there do you mean they cut those guys and didn't even tell them, instead letting them find out via ESPN Bottomline while watching tv at home?

That has nothing to with anything we're talking about, and you know it.

[RockStar36]

That has nothing to with anything we're talking about, and you know it.

It doesn't?

[BlackMetalNinja]

I haven't said a bad word about THIS offseason. I'll evaluate it according to the results.I guess my question then is why are you still holding such a grudge over the events of two years ago? What possible good is going to come of that? It's over and done with and staying pissed surely isn't going to change it now?

We pretty much all agree mistakes were made and things could have been done a little better at the time... but it's over and done with. Isn't the best we could hope for now that they learn from those mistakes and make better choices moving forward? Isn't that essentially what's being done by locking up these guys now (and at decent prices for that matter, Vanek excluded perhaps)?

I guess I really just don't understand the logic in being so angry about something that is done with and you have no ability to do anything about. They're clearly heading down a better path now with this crop of talent so what more do you want at this point in time.

[RockStar36]

I guess my question then is why are you still holding such a grudge over the events of two years ago? What possible good is going to come of that? It's over and done with and staying pissed surely isn't going to change it now?

We pretty much all agree mistakes were made and things could have been done a little better at the time... but it's over and done with. Isn't the best we could hope for now that they learn from those mistakes and make better choices moving forward? Isn't that essentially what's being done by locking up these guys now (and at decent prices for that matter, Vanek excluded perhaps)?

I guess I really just don't understand the logic in being so angry about something that is done with and you have no ability to do anything about. They're clearly heading down a better path now with this crop of talent so what more do you want at this point in time.

Well said #2.

[Philagape]

Ok, fair enough.

Now basically what you're saying is that the FO didn't try because they let Briere and Drury walk.

But are you denying that maybe after the two year run and realizing that those two guys weren't taking the team to the Finals, let alone winning it, that they decided they needed to focus money on the younger core and build for more runs instead of sink money into aging guys that may or may not lead the team to the Cup?

Do you not think this was part of the plan from the beginning?

They don't know what would have happened if they kept trying.
People keep using the word "core" ... what they let get away WAS their core.
Younger doesn't mean better. The core that got away wasn't that old, not in hockey. Yzerman won his first Cup at 32, which is how old they would have been at the END of the deals they would have signed. They were right smack in their prime.

[Dr. Lecter]

I think saying they are not trying is pretty dumb.

You might not like the approach, but saying they are not trying is the height of arrogance - "Only my approach would work!"

BTW, they would not have won a cup last year without Vanek and Roy as I have brought up 3 times now.

[Philagape]

I guess my question then is why are you still holding such a grudge over the events of two years ago? What possible good is going to come of that? It's over and done with and staying pissed surely isn't going to change it now?

We pretty much all agree mistakes were made and things could have been done a little better at the time... but it's over and done with. Isn't the best we could hope for now that they learn from those mistakes and make better choices moving forward? Isn't that essentially what's being done by locking up these guys now (and at decent prices for that matter, Vanek excluded perhaps)?

I guess I really just don't understand the logic in being so angry about something that is done with and you have no ability to do anything about. They're clearly heading down a better path now with this crop of talent so what more do you want at this point in time.

I get angry about things I care about.

What more do I want? Results! Is that too much to ask? This season is likely better than last season, but that doesn't mean much when last season was out of the playoffs.
I've said repeatedly that they can make up for it, and I've said how multiple times, and I'll give them credit if they do. But they have to do it first! Until then, all I'm left with is the results of the mistakes they made. That has to be undone first. If the team they're building now is inferior to the one that had before, then the net result of their tenure is negative, by their own doing IMO.

[RockStar36]

I get angry about things I care about.

What more do I want? Results! Is that too much to ask? This season is likely better than last season, but that doesn't mean much when last season was out of the playoffs.
I've said repeatedly that they can make up for it, and I've said how multiple times, and I'll give them credit if they do. But they have to do it first! Until then, all I'm left with is the results of the mistakes they made. That has to be undone first. If the team they're building now is inferior to the one that had before, then the net result of their tenure is negative, by their own doing IMO.

So instead of getting your blood pressure up and getting all red in the face on September 19th, why don't you let it play out this season. Watch to see what they have now. Watch them make the playoffs.

You keep holding the bar high but they can't meet your expectations before the season even starts.

[Philagape]

So instead of getting your blood pressure up and getting all red in the face on September 19th, why don't you let it play out this season. Watch to see what they have now. Watch them make the playoffs.

You keep holding the bar high but they can't meet your expectations before the season even starts.

That's all I've been doing. My blood pressure's fine. But I'll respond to those who declare or imply that the FO is vindicated or already making up for their mistakes. They're the ones who aren't waiting for results.

[Ebenezer]

They don't know what would have happened if they kept trying.

I'll be blunt...they sucked against the inferior Isles and Rangers. As Lecter has said, they would have lost more talent last season (and hurting the team long term). They wouldn't have been much better, really. Do you think having DB and CD instead of Vanek and somebody else would have produced better results? Sure, I think they would have made the playoffs that way. No, they would not have won the President's Cup nor won a round in the playoffs. They would have been a year older and possibly worse off in the long run.

[Ebenezer]

I get angry about things I care about.

Angry? Because a sports team you root for didn't win it all? How much money did you lose on your ownership of the team? How did it feel to sit dejected in the dressing room? Angry? Really? You need to take a step back.

[Ebenezer]

That's all I've been doing. My blood pressure's fine. But I'll respond to those who declare or imply that the FO is vindicated or already making up for their mistakes.

You keep using the word mistakes. You don't think this could have been the plan all along? Again, you act as if the FO is a bunch of bumbling fools.

[Philagape]

You keep using the word mistakes. You don't think this could have been the plan all along? Again, you act as if the FO is a bunch of bumbling fools.

Other people use the word mistakes too. You yourself denied that you agree with what happened.
And no, I don't believe they planned to lose both all along. In the summer/fall of 2006, yes I think they were bumbling fools. I think they were timid and afraid to take risks. During the post-Black Sunday news conference, they looked sullen, shaken and divided. If it was planned, then it was an extreme failure in judgment.

And I get emotional about my sports teams. That's what makes a fan, isn't it?

And yes, I think if they had kept Briere and Drury, they would have remained legit contenders even if they lost Vanek. They were the leaders. When they left, the team cut off its head.

[Ebenezer]

Other people use the word mistakes too. You yourself denied that you agree with what happened.

I didn't agree with what happened means I don't support them losing CD and/or DB. That doesn't mean I think the theory that this was all planned is bunk. I believe they had all the intents of making a two year run once everybody realized coming out of the strike that the team had a chance...I also think they might have made a run #3 had they not sucked so badly against the Isles, Rangers and Sens. They BLEW. At that point the dye was cast.

[Dr. Lecter]

And yes, I think if they had kept Briere and Drury, they would have remained legit contenders even if they lost Vanek. They were the leaders. When they left, the team cut off its head.

I prefer Vanek, Roy and Pominville to Briere.

And to think they could have lost Roy and Vanek and remained contenders is a point we have to agree to disagree. I think that is crazy talk.

[Philagape]

Whether it was a mistake in planning or a mistake in being too timid, it's still a mistake either way, and a monumental one.

[Ebenezer]

I prefer Vanek, Roy and Pominville to Briere.

And to think they could have lost Roy and Vanek and remained contenders is a point we have to agree to disagree. I think that is crazy talk.
And in 2009 when they were also rans everybody would have been so happy? Hardly. We would have heard - why didn't they shore the team up with more scoring? We didn't have this...we didn't have that...

The 2007-8 CD/DB led Sabres would have made the playoffs, lost in the first round and been busted up...and we wouldn't have Vanek, Miller and a couple of others...or worse...we would have been stuck with CD/DB, lost BC to FA with no compensation and we would be watching players sliding on the backsides of their careers.

[Ebenezer]

Whether it was a mistake in planning or a mistake in being too timid, it's still a mistake either way, and a monumental one.


Monumental?? You exaggerate. The team was floundering in the postseason with DB and CD...2007 would not have been a good season either way.

[Philagape]

And in 2009 when they were also rans everybody would have been so happy? Hardly. We would have heard - why didn't they shore the team up with more scoring? We didn't have this...we didn't have that...

The 2007-8 CD/DB led Sabres would have made the playoffs, lost in the first round and been busted up...and we wouldn't have Vanek, Miller and a couple of others...or worse...we would have been stuck with CD/DB, lost BC to FA with no compensation and we would be watching players sliding on the backsides of their careers.


I don't support them losing CD and/or DB.

Which is it? Do you agree with what happened -- their "plan," as you believe -- or don't you?

[Philagape]

Monumental?? You exaggerate. The team was floundering in the postseason with DB and CD...2007 would not have been a good season either way.

I disagree.

[Ebenezer]

Which is it? Do you agree with what happened -- their "plan," as you believe -- or don't you?
I have said three times this morning that I don't agree with their plan...I also believe that was their plan. Just because I don't agree with something doesn't mean it can't be so. IMO, they should have kept CD. They didn't. I also believe though that the 2007-8 Sabres with CD wouldn't have been much better than we saw. I can't state it any clearer than that.

[Philagape]

I have said three times this morning that I don't agree with their plan...I also believe that was their plan. Just because I don't agree with something doesn't mean it can't be so. IMO, they should have kept CD. They didn't. I also believe though that the 2007-8 Sabres with CD wouldn't have been much better than we saw. I can't state it any clearer than that.

So you wanted them to do something that in your opinion would have been a couple steps back and limited the future?

[Ebenezer]

So you wanted them to do something that in your opinion would have been a couple steps back and limited the future?
Again, I disagreed with letting CD go. That has nothing to do with what I think the Sabres business plan was. And I'm sorry that I am not having the visceral reaction you are having. And I know where you are going...mistake. Mistake implies the inability to do something or that something is wrong. I have not judged whether the Sabres have made a mistake. I can understand the reasoning. I don't agree with it...that does not make it a mistake...I do say however that they would have been at the same place regardless...struggling to make the playoffs...may have even lost Vanek in the process.

[LivingTheLife]

I guess my question then is why are you still holding such a grudge over the events of two years ago? What possible good is going to come of that? It's over and done with and staying pissed surely isn't going to change it now?

We pretty much all agree mistakes were made and things could have been done a little better at the time... but it's over and done with. Isn't the best we could hope for now that they learn from those mistakes and make better choices moving forward? Isn't that essentially what's being done by locking up these guys now (and at decent prices for that matter, Vanek excluded perhaps)?

I guess I really just don't understand the logic in being so angry about something that is done with and you have no ability to do anything about. They're clearly heading down a better path now with this crop of talent so what more do you want at this point in time.


You've made some excellent points. However, the fact is that this FO has not replaced the talent and leadership that they lost...that is why some on here still seem to be angry with the FO. We're all happy they finally decided to lock up our own players, but they've never addressed the shortcomings of this team and they didn't do it this offseason. Rivet is a great pickup, but more still needed to be done to have a legit shot at winning the cup. IMO

[LivingTheLife]

Again, I disagreed with letting CD go. That has nothing to do with what I think the Sabres business plan was. And I'm sorry that I am not having the visceral reaction you are having. And I know where you are going...mistake. Mistake implies the inability to do something or that something is wrong. I have not judged whether the Sabres have made a mistake. I can understand the reasoning. I don't agree with it...that does not make it a mistake...I do say however that they would have been at the same place regardless...struggling to make the playoffs...may have even lost Vanek in the process.

Your argument is hard to backup. What I mean is, we have evidence that this team is a playoff and Cup contender with Drury and Briere, but you don't have evidence that they wouldn't be if we lost Vanek and took the 4 1st rounders. Maybe somebody else takes his ice time and contributes more (like Roy did in Briere & Drury's absence). The only people who actually are right (and that might be a bad word, but it's the only one I can think of right now) are the people who can argue with facts and the fact is the Sabres didn't make the playoffs without Briere and Drury.