So Jason Peters is our best player???

[Novacane]

All you that kept saying that all offseason still think so?

[shelby]

Put Walker back in as far as i'm concerned.

[gr8slayer]

Absolutely.

[Novacane]

Absolutely.

does not say much for the rest of the team then

[LivingTheLife]

He really has looked awful so far.

[Novacane]

He really has looked awful so far.


Glad we did not give him the contract all the armchair GM's here were screaming for.

[Joe Fo Sho]

All you that kept saying that all offseason still think so?

Kind of hard to erase a few years of solid "probowl" play with a bad half game this week and a bad play last week...

[Mitchy moo]

Jason looks like crap, he better keep his mouth shut until his probowl play is repeated.

[Jeff1220]

Kind of hard to erase a few years of solid "probowl" play with a bad half game this week and a bad play last week...

He's made one (1) pro bowl. Even Kordell Stewart has done that.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He's made one (1) pro bowl. Even Kordell Stewart has done that.

I understand that, which is why I put probowl in quotes. So he's had one year of probowl type play and 2 bad games where he missed training camp (not pleased about that BTW). I'm not saying that he's the best LT ever, I'm just saying give him some time before we call for him to get benched.

[Tatonka]

Absolutely.

the only thing that is absolute is that peters is getting absolutely owned every play.

[gr8slayer]

the only thing that is absolute is that peters is getting absolutely owned every play.
You obviously aren't watching the game if you think he's getting owned on every play.

[Oldbillsfan]

He isn't in football shape yet.

[ParanoidAndroid]

He looks slow and out of shape. He'll get better, though.

It looks bad for him if he wants a big contract because he is not playing like the franchise LT he is supposed to be. He should have shown up in better shape.

[mchurchfie]

He stiffened up significantly in the second half, much better play after that. The coaches must have read him the riot act after the second half.

[Novacane]

Yeah.........he redeemed himself in the 4th quarter. Still not our best player though.

[gr8slayer]

the only thing that is absolute is that peters is getting absolutely owned every play.
How did that end up working out for you? :snicker:

You make it so obvious that you don't even watch the games, remember saying what a great pass rusher Ellis was going to be? :roflmao:

[ServoBillieves]

He's made one (1) pro bowl. Even Kordell Stewart has done that.

Good call.

A lot of people were calling for MW to make a Pro Bowl early on in his career too.. but JP cost us a turnover and a couple unnecessary QB rough ups/hurries this week.

I was happy to see Kirk step in.

[ServoBillieves]

He stiffened up significantly in the second half, much better play after that. The coaches must have read him the riot act after the second half.

I almost want to fork this, but who is then?

I've seen some fantastic play from Freddy J, Marshawn, Poz, Trent has been steady, and Josh kept Gibril out of the game today (past that have seen steady play, too :-P!).

I'd have to honestly go with not just one RB, but both. The backfield has proven so much to me these past few weeks.

[mchurchfie]

At times in this game and the last game you could see flashes of his old dominating self.That is why we have to just take our lumps with him and let him get up to speed. When he is at 100% he is still our best lineman.

[LivingTheLife]

I'll give the guy a break considering he missed all of training camp. However, that was his own doing, so Peters has get his act together and quick.

[Crisis]

If it was an injury or something that kept him out I think we'd all give him more slack.

But the guy being out of shape and getting his ass handed to him is all his own fault. He gave up 2 sacks today right? No way a "top 3" LT should be giving up 2 sacks a game...

[YardRat]

He'll come around when he gets a couple of more games under his belt.

Fowler, however, will still suck.

[Stewie]

the AP game notes say he was benched for poor play today, then re-inserted into the lineup.. I missed that

[Tatonka]

How did that end up working out for you? :snicker:

You make it so obvious that you don't even watch the games, remember saying what a great pass rusher Ellis was going to be? :roflmao:


your post is a ****ing moron.. i have seen every play of every game for the past 14 years.

peters looked like **** for the good portion of the game.. peters also got benched for KIRK CHAMBERS for a few plays.. how embarrassing is that..

and ellis is a rookie who has yet to play.. your right.. hes a bust for sure.. you're the same guy that would have traded youboty to cleveland for a 7th round pick.

bottom line is this.. peters is not in football shape.. and it is because he is a greedy selfish player who has begged for a new contract with all three agents he has had.. but it doesnt matter.. because he is locked up for 3 years.. and if he keeps playing like this.. he will be playing on that contract for all 3 years.

it is almost like you're peters mother or girlfriend. i cant see how you can stand up for the guy who has been 100% responsible for both of trents fumbles.. because he is getting burned by less than stellar defensive ends.. you wont be giving him a reach around when he gets trent killed on this once a game blind side pace he is on and Losman ends up being the starter for the remainder of the season due to peters.

[Tatonka]

i just realized why you love peters despite the way he is playing.. your a cowgirls fan. i forgot..

i lived in dallas for 10 years.. your a typical cowgirls fan.

[gr8slayer]

your post is a ****ing moron.. i have seen every play of every game for the past 14 years.

peters looked like **** for the good portion of the game.. peters also got benched for KIRK CHAMBERS for a few plays.. how embarrassing is that..

and ellis is a rookie who has yet to play.. your right.. hes a bust for sure.. you're the same guy that would have traded youboty to cleveland for a 7th round pick.

bottom line is this.. peters is not in football shape.. and it is because he is a greedy selfish player who has begged for a new contract with all three agents he has had.. but it doesnt matter.. because he is locked up for 3 years.. and if he keeps playing like this.. he will be playing on that contract for all 3 years.

it is almost like you're peters mother or girlfriend. i cant see how you can stand up for the guy who has been 100% responsible for both of trents fumbles.. because he is getting burned by less than stellar defensive ends.. you wont be giving him a reach around when he gets trent killed on this once a game blind side pace he is on and Losman ends up being the starter for the remainder of the season due to peters.
I highly doubt you even saw every snap from today's game much less the past 14 years because if you had you wouldn't have made the ignorant statement that he's getting his ass kicked every play. You said it, not me. But I've come to expect it from you so it's really no surprise.

And yeah, Ellis is a bum and a waste of a draft pick just like 90% of the DeAngelo Halls that come out of VT.

[Tatonka]

At times in this game and the last game you could see flashes of his old dominating self.That is why we have to just take our lumps with him and let him get up to speed. When he is at 100% he is still our best lineman.
agreed. it just wasnt until late.. but the whole oline played great when we needed them to.

[gr8slayer]

i just realized why you love peters despite the way he is playing.. your a cowgirls fan. i forgot..

i lived in dallas for 10 years.. your a typical cowgirls fan.
:roflmao:

[Tatonka]

If it was an injury or something that kept him out I think we'd all give him more slack.

But the guy being out of shape and getting his ass handed to him is all his own fault. He gave up 2 sacks today right? No way a "top 3" LT should be giving up 2 sacks a game...
you are 100% correct.

:rockon:

[camelcowboy]

You obviously aren't watching the game if you think he's getting owned on every play. Since your the only one defending him maybe you should check your reception. He has looked like ****

[gr8slayer]

agreed. it just wasnt until late.. but the whole oline played great when we needed them to.
Flip flop.

[gr8slayer]

Since your the only one defending him maybe you should check your reception. He has looked like ****
I'm not denying that he doesn't look like his dominating self. But someone made the ignorant statement that he's getting "absolutely destroyed every play" and it simply wasn't true.

[ALL D]

His job is to get in football shape and stay in football shape...

If he wants the big bucks he should play like he deserves it...

Did you see T.O. when he was in between teams... Top physical shape and he didn't ever miss a beat...

I hope Peters dumb decision costs him millions by years end...

[Tatonka]

I highly doubt you even saw every snap from today's game much less the past 14 years because if you had you wouldn't have made the ignorant statement that he's getting his ass kicked every play. You said it, not me. But I've come to expect it from you so it's really no surprise.

And yeah, Ellis is a bum and a waste of a draft pick just like 90% of the DeAngelo Halls that come out of VT.
clearly you're trying to take my statement literally.. but obviously he didnt get beat on every play.. he did give up 2 sacks though and was not effective on many rushing plays.. and it is his own fault.. he has also been 100% at fault for all the fumbles trent has had.. and has nearly got the qb killed from blindside hits..

but most top LTs in the league do that i am sure.

and i have had the nfl sunday ticket since the day it came out.. i have not missed a bills game since i was in dallas in 1993... aside from the occassional bathroom break..

:up:

edited for TOS~shelby

[Tatonka]

Flip flop.
im not trying to say he is not our best lineman.. im saying that he looked like **** for a good portion of the day.. you act like i want him to do bad.. i would love for him to be the player he has been for teh past few years.. but he is not right now.. he finally showed up to play consistently in the 4th quarter today.

[gr8slayer]

clearly you're trying to take my statement literally because you're a douche.. but obviously he didnt get beat on every play.. he did give up 2 sacks though and was not effective on many rushing plays.. and it is his own fault.. he has also been 100% at fault for all the fumbles trent has had.. and has nearly got the qb killed from blindside hits..

but most top LTs in the league do that i am sure.

and i have had the nfl sunday ticket since the day it came out.. i have not missed a bills game since i was in dallas in 1993... aside from the occassional bathroom break.. which i need on occassion after reading most of your posts.

:up:
:rofl: now you're backtracking. So sad.....

It's hilarious that you are stupid enough to actually blame a players fumbles on another player. Please keep going, your posts are becoming FTPish.

[Tatonka]

:rofl: now you're backtracking. So sad.....

It's hilarious that you are stupid enough to actually blame a players fumbles on another player. Please keep going, your posts are becoming FTPish.

so what you are saying is that peters is not responsible for trents two fumbles that came on sacks by peters guy?

you really are peters girlfriend or mother.. because those are the only two people that cant admit that.. wow..

im done.

[gr8slayer]

im not trying to say he is not our best lineman you tool.. im saying that he looked like **** for a good portion of the day.. you act like i want him to do bad.. i would love for him to be the player he has been for teh past few years.. but he is not right now.. he finally showed up to play consistently in the 4th quarter today.
Have you taken into consideration that he has not played a down of football (until last week) in nearly a year?

Have you taken into consideration that perhaps he's still not 100%

Have you taken into consideration that he still hasn't figured out the play-book? (possible)

Or maybe he just didn't have a good game? It happens, even to the best players, ask T.O. and Romo last year vs. Buffalo.

Did he **** up by holding out when we're trying to install a new system? Sure, you'd be stupid not to think so, but to constantly berate the guy week in and week out is dumb. Tell me how many plays Peters screwed up on today and I can point out five other players on the team that screwed up just as much if not more. **** happens, and you know what? It's going to happen again, the man is human, he's likely not 100% mentally or physically, but he's still our best player hands down. You don't just magically forget how to play football overnight.

[Agent007]

Peters got schooled today.

There is no other way to put it.

Whether or not he gets it together remains to be seen.

I really hope so. I hate to see him be a liability out there the rest of the season.

[gr8slayer]

so what you are saying is that peters is not responsible for trents two fumbles that came on sacks by peters guy?

you really are peters girlfriend or mother.. because those are the only two people that cant admit that.. wow..

im done.
What are you in fifth grade? Wow....

No, the fumbles are the QB's fault; you are taught to feel the pressure and cover up the ball if you know you're going down. One could argue that Edwards took too much time in the pocket and the fumbles were his fault either way.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

No TC and no PS wont exactly help a player.

[Crisis]

No TC and no PS wont exactly help a player.

yeah but the point is that's his own doing...

[Agent007]

No, the fumbles are the QB's fault; you are taught to feel the pressure and cover up the ball if you know you're going down. One could argue that Edwards took too much time in the pocket and the fumbles were his fault either way.


No they're not. Not all the time.

A qb could be ready to pass and get hit as he is about to release.

On both fumbles trent was getting ready to release the ball.

Those were on Peters.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

yeah but the point is that's his own doing...

I know, imo he would be playing better if he showed up and got into game shape. No one to blame but himself.

[Tatonka]

What are you in fifth grade? Wow....

No, the fumbles are the QB's fault; you are taught to feel the pressure and cover up the ball if you know you're going down. One could argue that Edwards took too much time in the pocket and the fumbles were his fault either way.

6th grade actually.

i guess if peters is going to keep playing this way, then trent needs to concentrate more so he can hear peters scream "LOOK OUT, TRENT!!!!".. so he knows when to "sense" an immediate blind side sack and hold the ball tightly.

[gr8slayer]

No they're not. Not all the time.

A qb could be ready to pass and get hit as he is about to release.

On both fumbles trent was getting ready to release the ball.

Those were on Peters.
Ok, I'll give you a counter argument.

One of the first things you teach a QB (from day one) is how to feel pressure. Edwards should have felt the pressure coming and tucked the ball, perhaps he needs to work on that some more.

[Tatonka]

No they're not. Not all the time.

A qb could be ready to pass and get hit as he is about to release.

On both fumbles trent was getting ready to release the ball.

Those were on Peters.

not according to peters girlfriend.

:drama:

[Tatonka]

maybe we can draft a qb that has eyes in the back of his head.. that would eliminate this problem completely!

[gr8slayer]

not according to peters girlfriend.

:drama:
:snicker: the words of a defeated man.

[Tatonka]

:snicker: the words of a defeated man.

im defeated? you're the only one that is trying to stand up for peters. the only one. some guys wouldnt know wrong if it kicked them in the taint. i guess you are one of those guys.

[LABillsFan]

Ok, I'll give you a counter argument.

One of the first things you teach a QB (from day one) is how to feel pressure. Edwards should have felt the pressure coming and tucked the ball, perhaps he needs to work on that some more.

It's a lot of Peter's but you are right, Trent has to get a better feel. On the longer throws, he gets hit and grabbed, it's like he steps up a hair too late. He's only in his 2nd year, he'll get better at it.

[gr8slayer]

im defeated? you're the only one that is trying to stand up for peters. the only one. some guys wouldnt know wrong if it kicked them in the taint. i guess you are one of those guys.
Yeah, you're defeated. You made one of the most ignorant statements in the history of the board and now you're trying to use elementary insults as a way to backtrack and retract from your ignorant statement.

You've gone from saying that he got "absolutely destroyed every play", to saying it was a good portion of the day, to admitting that he's still our best OL. Make up your mind Sally.

[Agent007]

Ok, I'll give you a counter argument.

One of the first things you teach a QB (from day one) is how to feel pressure. Edwards should have felt the pressure coming and tucked the ball, perhaps he needs to work on that some more.



No he doesn't.

Edward's clock is fine.

Those sacks were on Peters.

[gr8slayer]

No he doesn't.

Edward's clock is fine.

Those sacks were on Peters.
No doubt about it, Peters got beat on both sacks, they are 100% his fault. But the fumbles aren't.

[Agent007]

It is quite evident that Edwards did not have this issue against a good Seahawks defense.

Peters has struggled since his holdout.

Peters has gotten beat many times.

Edwards has gotten praise for hanging in the pocket and throwing the ball as he is about to get hit.

Those plays are praised, but now it's his fault that his tackle can't hold up enough for him to release the ball without getting hit?

Edward's clock is not the problem.

[Agent007]

[/B]
No doubt about it, Peters got beat on both sacks, they are 100% his fault. But the fumbles aren't.

You're right.

Next time Trent should put Gorilla Glue on his hands so he won't lose the ball.

[gr8slayer]

It is quite evident that Edwards did not have this issue against a good Seahawks defense.

Peters has struggled since his holdout.

Peters has gotten beat many times.

Edwards has gotten praise for hanging in the pocket and throwing the ball as he is about to get hit.

Those plays are praised, but now it's his fault that his tackle can't hold up enough for him to release the ball without getting hit?

Edward's clock is not the problem.
Since I haven't had a chance to go over the tape again tell me, how long did Edwards have to throw the ball on both sacks?

[Agent007]

Since I haven't had a chance to go over the tape again tell me, how long did Edwards have to throw the ball on both sacks?

I didn't time it.

I do know that he had his man and was about to unwind and got hit.

Have you ever tried to tuck the ball in as you are in your throwing motion to sling it down the field?

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, would it?

Just by example, i've seen it happen to Tom Brady.

I've seen it happen to Jim Kelly.

They get hit and fumble because their guy could not hold the defender a second longer.

Qb's can't control fumbles when they are in their throwing motion.

Not unless they had a freeze watch.

[gr8slayer]

I didn't time it.

I do know that he had his man and was about to unwind and got hit.

Have you ever tried to tuck the ball in as you are in your throwing motion to sling it down the field?

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, would it?

Just by example, i've seen it happen to Tom Brady.

I've seen it happen to Jim Kelly.

They get hit and fumble because their guy could not hold the defender a second longer.

Qb's can't control fumbles when they are in their throwing motion.

Not unless they had a freeze watch.
I'll have the times for you tomorrow when I do the OL. If he had more than 3.0 seconds he took too long either way and it's even more his fault that he fumbled.

I've also seen Brady feel the pressure coming and do what every QB is taught to do and tuck the ball.

[Agent007]

I'll have the times for you tomorrow when I do the OL. If he had more than 3.0 seconds he took too long either way and it's even more his fault that he fumbled.

I've also seen Brady feel the pressure coming and do what every QB is taught to do and tuck the ball.

This is relatively night and day.

If he hangs in the pocket too long because he has time and throws a nice pass when he is about to get hit and could have lost the ball, then he made an exceptional play.(TD pass to Parrish)

Are you going to say he took too long and should have tucked the ball in even though he was going to get nailed?

Had he not hung in and took the extra second the TD pass would not have happened.

[Philagape]

This is relatively night and day.

If he hangs in the pocket too long because he has time and throws a nice pass when he is about to get hit and could have lost the ball, then he made an exceptional play.(TD pass to Parrish)

Are you going to say he took too long and should have tucked the ball in even though he was going to get nailed?

Had he not hung in and took the extra second the TD pass would not have happened.

The big pass to Evans last week also took a long time to develop simply because of the route, and it was successful because Trent took a step forward to avoid a pass rusher.

[Agent007]

The big pass to Evans last week also took a long time to develop simply because of the route, and it was successful because Trent took a step forward to avoid a pass rusher.


Agreed, though on both sacks he could not step forward because he had no open lanes to step into.

You can't fault a qb for losing the ball in his throwing motion.

If he lost the ball when he tucked it or was standing in the pocket making his progressions I would agree.

[Philagape]

I was agreeing with both of you ... You can't blame a QB for waiting for a route to develop or losing the ball on a throwing motion, but the great ones do have that sixth sense so they know when not to wind up

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

All you that kept saying that all offseason still think so?


ya PAY THE MAN right? get the f outta here dude..he has looked like *****, like i said, if he's trying to play for a contract, this is working out better for us, clearly showing that he deserves no raise at all, maybe step it up a little bit? idk, try not get owned on every play you scrub.

[gr8slayer]

ya PAY THE MAN right? get the f outta here dude..he has looked like *****, like i said, if he's trying to play for a contract, this is working out better for us, clearly showing that he deserves no raise at all, maybe step it up a little bit? idk, try not get owned on every play you scrub.
Tatonka, tell me you didn't go out and get another screen name just to keep this going?

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

Tatonka, tell me you didn't go out and get another screen name just to keep this going?

Naw, this used to be Dembillsown..

im just saying, Jason Peters is clearly just in this for money..not playing with heart at all, i didnt want peters starting at all, we were doing fine without him..if you still think JP deserves his money, i think you're crazy..an thats my opinion.

[Agent007]

but the great ones do have that sixth sense so they know when not to wind up

I don't agree.

This happened countless times to Jim Kelly.

He would attempt to throw and the defender behind him locked into a lineman would just reach out and tomahawk the ball out of his hand.

It's not the qb's fault. He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

It's a crapshoot. Sometimes it's luck.

That's why you must have good and dependable linemen and vice versa.

The combintation of both decreases the chances of those type of fumbles from happening.

Trent had done a good job of locating pressure and where's it's coming from.


Sometimes not even the greats can avoid everything.

I only saw one bad play he made in the pocket all game and that was when he did not step up into an open lane and instead rolled out to throw the ball away.

[Philagape]

I don't agree.

This happened countless times to Jim Kelly.

He would attempt to throw and the defender behind him locked into a lineman would just reach out and tomahawk the ball out of his hand.

It's not the qb's fault. He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

It's a crapshoot. Sometimes it's luck.

That's why you must have good and dependable linemen and vice versa.

The combintation of both decreases the chances of those type of fumbles from happening.

Trent had done a good job of locating pressure and where's it's coming from.


Sometimes not even the greats can avoid everything.

I only saw one bad play he made in the pocket all game and that was when he did not step up into an open lane and instead rolled out to throw the ball away.

Of course no one does it every time ... and I'm not getting on Trent at all. It's still just his 12th start ever in the NFL. The pocket poise he's shown is astounding for someone of his experience. It's because of that poise that we're 3-0 instead of 1-2.

[DrGraves]

peters sucks nuts... he almost cost us the jags and raiders games...

[casdhf]

Since I haven't had a chance to go over the tape again tell me, how long did Edwards have to throw the ball on both sacks? :rofl: You gonna dissect things with Pat?

[Merc]

Peters played like ass yesterday. He'd better get his act together or Mr. Probowl will find himself benched till he can get into game shape and show that he knows how to play the position again. Terrible performance and he was arguably the worst player on that field yesterday.

[FlyingDutchman]

peters sucks nuts... he almost cost us the jags and raiders games...

i agree, hes almost cost us 2 games and this great start. Ill chalk it up as being out of football shape, but he better turn it around in a hurry or he can kiss that new contract, and the respect of Bills fans buh bye.

[Ebenezer]

Glad we did not give him the contract all the armchair GM's here were screaming for.
not that we will name any names :gag: