Whitner Could Face Suspension?

[Bulldog]

According to Fanball.

http://ownersedge.fanball.com/player_notes/nfl



Goddell is out of his mind in Whitner gets suspended for this. What a joke!

[The Spaz]

He won't I am not worried. He didn't body slam him or go for his head or punch him etc.

[The King]

There's no way. Wilson will get suspended. Whitner will not. A late hit shouldnt be a death setence unless its to a qb.

[G Wolly]

It was definitely uncalled for, but it wasn't a dirty hit where he intended to harm him or anything.

[Mr. Miyagi]

It was not intented to hurt the guy, just to send a message.

Late hits are considered Unnecessary Roughness, which was called on the field as a penalty and should be left on the field.

[G Wolly]

I could understand if he like ripped him down by the horse collar or bodyslammed him.

Not this.

[OpIv37]

He shouldn't have done it, but it reallly wasn't a hard hit at all. He barely pulled him down. A suspension would be a huge over-reaction.

[Typ0]

From a fans, players and coaches perspective I think this hit was appropriate. From a league perspective though it's retaliatory and would be appropriate to send a message with a suspension. Sad, but true.

[Confused]

Huge fine maybe. tahts all. One game tops if indeed he is suspended.

[patmoran2006]

You can also say that punching someone in the face during a game is "sending a message"

Its the wrong message.

But having said that, no way in hell whitner is getting suspended.. Thats ridiculous

[Mitchy moo]

No way.

[The Spaz]

You can also say that punching someone in the face during a game is "sending a message"

Its the wrong message.

But having said that, no way in hell whitner is getting suspended.. Thats ridiculous

I think a punch and a tackle are a little different.

[DraftBoy]

I think a punch and a tackle are a little different.
Ask Oklahoma DT DeMarcus Granger about that in his game v. Washington.

[ajsdx]

I would not be surprised if he got suspended for a game. The dude was 5 yards into the end zone and "vulnerable." If he does, though, it's one game tops.

[VeggieMan14]

suspend him for the next game if they are gonna do it even tho it is total bull ****

[Coach Sal]

COULD WHITNER FACE SUSPENSION?: It doesn’t seem likely since it wasn’t a tackle meant to injure, but it bears watching to see if Donte Whitner’s tackle of Johnnie Lee Higgins five yards deep in the end zone following his 84-yard touchdown catch and run will draw any disciplinary action from the league in the wake of Commissioner Goodell’s memo on player safety issued last week. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
The memo, which was sent to all teams emphasized the importance of player safety and that on field conduct that risks injuries will result in severe penalties. The memo read as follows:
<o:p></o:p>
"Player safety on the field is important to all of us in the NFL. Football is a tough game and we need to do everything possible to protect all players--offense, defense, and special teams--from unnecessary injury caused by illegal and dangerous hits.

"From this point forward, you should be clear on the following point: Any conduct that unnecessarily risks the safety of other players has no role in the game of football and will be disciplined at increased levels, including on a first offense.

"Playing by the rules shows respect for your fellow players. No one wants to see unnecessary injuries. Let's have a safe and exciting 2008 season."<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Tampa</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> cornerback Elbert Mack was suspended for a game last week after he had a helmet-to-helmet hit on Atlanta QB Matt Ryan during an interception return in Week 2. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Bills head coach Dick Jauron said he read the Commissioner’s memo to the entire team last week. And while he understood Whitner’s anger over being shown up by Higgins he felt it would have been best to take the 15 yards on the ensuing kickoff.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
“Obviously you don’t want that to happen,” said Jauron of Whitner’s hit. “But (Higgins) should have been flagged for taunting. You’d like to get that 15 yards and not have it canceled out. It is infuriating. There is no doubt about it, but (Whitner’s) got to control himself because it could have been a big advantage for us on their kickoff and added to our return. That’s a first down and a half. In the heat of the battle you can see it happening, but I’m sure he’d like to have that play back.”<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>Trent Edwards gave his take on the play.</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>"I saw that happen and I wasn’t very pleased with the way he showboated a little bit there at the end," said Edwards of Higgins. "I don’t know if he meant to do it. I think he was maybe a little too excited about getting a big play in that situation.

"I’m never going to be a guy that promotes dirty play, but in the same regard I think that Johnnie’s reaction there is almost a dirty play at the Bills too.

"I know Donte takes a lot of pride in that defense as well as I take a lot of pride in the offense. That fired me up too seeing Donte do that. There was still plenty of time left and I think I saw some of the coaches shaking hands on the other sideline and some people get out of the stands and get to their cars to leave early.

"The game wasn’t over and those people that left and those people that were shaking hands on the other sideline were definitely regretting doing that."

</o:p>When asked if he anticipates Whitner possibly facing any league action in the wake of the commissioner’s memo based on how it reads, Jauron chose to leave that to the league’s head man.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
“I read it to the team, but I don’t interpret it,” said Jauron of Goodell's memo. “That’s the commissioner’s job. I don’t have a clue what he’ll do with that. Hopefully not much. Again, I wish he had control, but you can certainly understand why he was a little upset.”


http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=4110

[Typ0]

that's one heck of a quote....looks exactly like the article I read at buffalobills.com.

[Coach Sal]

that's one heck of a quote....looks exactly like the article I read at buffalobills.com.

Yeah, which is why there's a link to it underneath.

Only the FanBall article had been referenced so far, so I linked (and copied) the BB.com one, too.

[njsue]

All he will get is a $ hit in his wallet.

[DynaPaul]

Nah, he won't get suspended for that. If anyone would worry about getting suspended it'd be Gibril Wilson. I think Johnnie Lee Higgins should be a candidate for a fine after that obvious taunting.

[DrastiK]

I don't know how you guys feel about his hit in the endzone, but it really made me like him more. In the replay you can see whoever it was turning around probably talking some **** to Whitner and he was just so frustrated and wanted him to shut his mouth. I would of probably done the same thing, his team was having trouble taking the lead when we should've been completely blowing them out. Knowing that, was probably very agravating. But all in all, i liked the fact that he did that.

[Meathead]

about what time was wilson ejected? i missed it live and i couldnt find it on the tape after the game yes tape i still use vhs *****es

[VeggieMan14]

about what time was wilson ejected? i missed it live and i couldnt find it on the tape after the game yes tape i still use vhs *****esit was right after the second lynch td run

[Mitchy moo]

about what time was wilson ejected? i missed it live and i couldnt find it on the tape after the game yes tape i still use vhs *****es

My Beta-D ran out of tape before that came up, so don't ask me. Knew I shoulda went with that VHS player from twin fair, Twoguys had that going out of business beta sale and I bit. Woolworth had it on sale a week later as well, just my luck.

[Meathead]

it was right after the second lynch td run
the one where the whole offense pushed right through the center of the defense into the endzone? cuz i just watched that segment and still totally missed it

[Mr. Pink]

Bonehead play.

You can set tone, make a statement, etc during the game legally.

Or you can get pissed off that some dude running at half speed is about as fast as you and out of frustration tackle him 7 yards deep in the endzone.

BTW since when is basically jogging taunting exactly?

[Mski]

it happened after the play was over on lynch's second td

[VeggieMan14]

Bonehead play.

You can set tone, make a statement, etc during the game legally.

Or you can get pissed off that some dude running at half speed is about as fast as you and out of frustration tackle him 7 yards deep in the endzone.

BTW since when is basically jogging taunting exactly? not a bonehead move IMO it was a move that changed the tempo of the game and helped us win the gaem

[DraftBoy]

Defending one's stupid actions just because he wears a Bills uniform is just as stupid as what he did. Should he get suspended for it? Meh, could go either way, I dont think its bad enough but I can see the precedent being set by it to.

The ignorance that some fans have been exhibiting here is astonishing, you'd think we'd have actually proven something to somebody yet...we have won 3 games, we could easily lose the next 13. Playoffs are a very real possibility right now but make no mistake that we haven't proven anything to anybody yet.

The same pundits who have been dragged through the mud here for years for "bashing the Bills" are now put on pedestals and applauded for their praise. Going into this game most people thought it would be a blow out. Many have taken the same arrogance among them of the fans we all said we disliked, but it appears many are just envious. Im very proud of the way this team went about its business on Sunday, it won a game it was supposed to and didnt get down when the score was against them. However I can't say Im proud of Whitner for what he did, or of its fans and their reactions none the less. One would think that Bills fans above all else should and would know better. But alas day by day even the painfully obvious is pointed out over and over again.

[OpIv37]

not a bonehead move IMO it was a move that changed the tempo of the game and helped us win the gaem

that's a load of horse ****.

People keep saying that over and over. I think it really tells our team short by suggesting they need a dumb penalty to gather the emotional energy to win.

And even if the tackle did change the tempo, how the hell would you know unless you were on the sideline.

[Mitchy moo]

This is the equiv... of hitting someone late / out of bounds. If that starts becoming a suspendable event, half the freaking league is going to have to serve a suspension. He slowed down and Whitner lost track of where he was, cut and dry.

[Crisis]

well we won so it obviously wasn't a boneheaded play.

thats how we measure things isnt it? all i know is he made a statement and the team responded and we won. that's all i care about.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is the equiv... of hitting someone late / out of bounds. If that starts becoming a suspendable event, half the freaking league is going to have to serve a suspension. He slowed down and Whitner lost track of where he was, cut and dry.

Even Whitner is not saying that.

It was a dumb penalty. But a suspension would be a big over-reaction.

[Dr. Lecter]

The ignorance that some fans have been exhibiting here is astonishing, you'd think we'd have actually proven something to somebody yet...we have won 3 games, we could easily lose the next 13. Playoffs are a very real possibility right now but make no mistake that we haven't proven anything to anybody yet.



Easily lose the next 13?

But I do agree with your basic point. We saw it during the Lynch incident too.

[DraftBoy]

Easily lose the next 13?

But I do agree with your basic point. We saw it during the Lynch incident too.

Easily as in "Any given Sunday"

I dont mean to imply the team is a push over, but one injury to Edwards, or Lynch and this season is over with.

[YardRat]

Whitner was penalized, even though it was off-set. Wilson was ejected. Both were 'punished' for their infractions, relative to their severity. I could see a monetary fine for both, possibly, but if game suspensions are involved for either then Goodell is a bigger dumb-ass than I already think he is.

If he wants to suspend somebody, he can start with the scumbags in New England.

[Mski]

Easily as in "Any given Sunday"

I dont mean to imply the team is a push over, but one injury to Edwards, or Lynch and this season is over with.

just look at how the cheatriots got rolled this week

[Mski]

i thought game ejections were automatic 1game suspensions :idunno:

[Mitchy moo]

we have won 3 games, we could easily lose the next 13. Playoffs are a very real possibility right now but make no mistake that we haven't proven anything to anybody yet.

.

Yeah, we're going to lose this week to a team that has lost their first 3 games by a average of 29 points a game. St. Louis has looked aweful, I mean just aweful. This week is a possible trap game if I have ever seen one but it can also be a blowout of significant proportions, the latter is looking more realistic.

[OpIv37]

well we won so it obviously wasn't a boneheaded play.

thats how we measure things isnt it? all i know is he made a statement and the team responded and we won. that's all i care about.

peters gave up two sacks but we won. Does that mean those weren't bonehead plays?

Evans fumbled, but we won. does that mean those weren't bonehead plays?

Poz, Whitner and Simpson gave up an 82 yard TD, but we won. Does that mean that wasn't a bonehead play?

Winning doesn't mean nothing bad happened. It means we did enough good to negate the bad.

[Crisis]

peters gave up two sacks but we won. Does that mean those weren't bonehead plays?

Evans fumbled, but we won. does that mean those weren't bonehead plays?

Poz, Whitner and Simpson gave up an 82 yard TD, but we won. Does that mean that wasn't a bonehead play?

Winning doesn't mean nothing bad happened. It means we did enough good to negate the bad.
that's extremely different.

whitner did something that sent a message to the team, the fans, everybody watching.

next offensive possession was a touchdown and next defensive possession was a huge 3 and out.

he didnt turn the ball over, he didnt cost us points, he didn't cost us ANYTHING.

maybe it was dumb, i dont think so, the team responded behind him and thats all that matters.

[Mr. Pink]

What message did Whitner send exactly?

That he was pissed off because Huggins jogging is as fast as he is full speed?

I'm curious as to what message tackling someone so obviously late is sending any message that's positive.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah, we're going to lose this week to a team that has lost their first 3 games by a average of 29 points a game. St. Louis has looked aweful, I mean just aweful. This week is a possible trap game if I have ever seen one but it can also be a blowout of significant proportions, the latter is looking more realistic.

You either dont understand the context of my post, or just like being exhibit A, one or the other, I haven't quite decided yet...

[DraftBoy]

that's extremely different.

whitner did something that sent a message to the team, the fans, everybody watching.

next offensive possession was a touchdown and next defensive possession was a huge 3 and out.

he didnt turn the ball over, he didnt cost us points, he didn't cost us ANYTHING.

maybe it was dumb, i dont think so, the team responded behind him and thats all that matters.

No the team responded because they were down and thats what they get payed to do. Whitner's stupidity did nothing but make it harder for them to respond.

[DraftBoy]

What message did Whitner send exactly?

That he was pissed off because Huggins jogging is as fast as he is full speed?

I'm curious as to what message tackling someone so obviously late is sending any message that's positive.

"Welcome to the league, rook. Are you wearing PF Flyers to make you run so fast?"

[DraftBoy]

I think what irks me a lot about this play is that its the guys first touchdown catch of his career and Whitner who is a leader for this team does some so classless, and yet some fans defend him...

[Mr. Pink]

"Welcome to the league, rook. Are you wearing PF Flyers to make you run so fast?"

"damn man, reebok pumps? Maybe I need to pump up and air out to keep up with you. In fact I'm gonna take your ass down when I finally do catch you and steal those kicks!"

[Coach Sal]

I have three reactions about this play/incident, in three different roles.

1. As a Bills teammate: "That's right, Donte! Show that mother f k r he can't show us up in our house. We're still in this game, dammit. Let's get that s*** back right NOW and win this thing! I'm pissed!"

2. As a coach: "What the f k are you doing, Donte!? This game isn't over. Use your friggin' head. You just cost us 15 yards, you moron."

3. As a Bills fan: We still won, so who gives a s***? He just better not get suspended. That would be ridiculous."

[Mitchy moo]

I have three reactions about this play/incident, in three different roles.

1. As a Bills teammate: "That's right, Donte! Show that mother f k r he can't show us up in our house. We're still in this game, dammit. Let's get that s h t back right NOW and win this thing! I'm pissed!"

2. As a coach: "What the f k are you doing, Donte!? This game isn't over. Use your friggin' head. You just cost us 15 yards, you moron."

3. As a Bills fan: We still won, so who gives a s h t? I just better not get suspended. That would be ridiculous."

2.) Revised coach outlook - Offsetting penalties, no harm / no foul.

[Coach Sal]

2.) Revised coach outlook - Offsetting penalties, no harm / no foul.

You're wrong.

If he doesn't do it, the Raiders kick off from their own 15. Instead, they got to kick from their own 30 as usual.

That's 15 yards of field position at a critical point in the game when you need yards and need to save time.

[Mitchy moo]

You're wrong.

If he doesn't do it, the Raiders kick off from their own 15. Instead, they got to kick from their own 30 as usual.

That's 15 yards of field position at a critical point in the game when you need yards and need to save time.

Higgins might of not gotten up to taunt us extra if he didn't get tackled in the end zone in the first place. Higgins saw the flag and wanted to dance to show us how smart he was, so he who gets the last penalty is smarter or dumber??

P.S. Whitner's tackle was a F-you tackle to his jogging azz, you slow down and you're gonna pay. Higgins M-Fed us all the way into the EZ and got B-slapped, we M-Fed his team in the end. Who won again??

[Coach Sal]

Offsetting penalties, no harm / no foul.

If the Bills had a 60-yard gain on a pass to Lee Evans, even though the DB was called for defensive holding......but then one of the Bills O-Linemen was called for holding, too......would you still say, "no harm/no foul?"

Just because penalties "offset" doesn't mean your team didn't suffer because of it.

[Mitchy moo]

If the Bills had a 60-yard gain on a pass to Lee Evans, even though the DB was called for defensive holding......but then one of the Bills O-Linemen was called for holding, too......would you still say, "no harm/no foul?"

Just because penalties "offset" doesn't mean your team didn't suffer because of it.

There is a huge difference between a exact yardage penalty on a specific play and a before the kickoff return yardage adjustment. Worse case scenario was a touchback, which is ~10-13 yards off of a normally good runback. You cannot compare a 60 change of field to a potential 10-13 yard variance, under normal circumstances.

<TABLE class=bgBdr cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bgHdr1Home><TD colSpan=3>Bills ball, 6:18</TD></TR><TR class=bgC vAlign=top><TD width=90></TD><TD width=100>Kickoff</TD><TD>Sebastian Janikowski kicks 60 yards from Oak30 to Buf10, Leodis McKelvin returns to Buf31 for 21 yards




Ironically after just looking it up...look what happened above. 11 yard variance from a touchback.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Coach Sal]

There is a huge difference between a exact yardage penalty on a specific play and a before the kickoff return yardage adjustment.

So I guess Dick Jauron has no idea what the hell he's talking about then?:

“Obviously you don’t want that to happen,” said Jauron of Whitner’s hit. “But (Higgins) should have been flagged for taunting. You’d like to get that 15 yards and not have it canceled out. It is infuriating. There is no doubt about it, but (Whitner’s) got to control himself because it could have been a big advantage for us on their kickoff and added to our return. That’s a first down and a half.


You cannot compare a 60 change of field to a potential 10-13 yard variance, under normal circumstances.

Tell that to the QB at Washington who got called for the (undeserving) unsportsmanlike for throwing the ball over his shoulder after scoring the would-be tying TD against BYU. The penalty made them kick the XP from 15 back which caused it to be blocked, which cost them the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q96NNj0xpE

You can't assume the end result would be the same. A kickoff from the 15 would probably have made the Raiders kick it much differently. There are a ton of different things that could have happened.

And, of course, it's easy to go back and say it didn't matter. But when it happens, it matters a lot, as far as field position, because again, you just don't know.

[Coach Sal]

By the way, there is still confusion over exactly who and what the Raiders penalty was on.

Jerry Sullivan said it was on JaMarcus Russell in the Buffalo News.
It could have been on Higgins before he got into the end zone.
It could have been on Higgins after the Donte hit.

Ironically, there is no official listing of their penalty on NFL.com, but the one on Donte clearly states that.

[PECKERWOOD]

Defending one's stupid actions just because he wears a Bills uniform is just as stupid as what he did. Should he get suspended for it? Meh, could go either way, I dont think its bad enough but I can see the precedent being set by it to.

The ignorance that some fans have been exhibiting here is astonishing, you'd think we'd have actually proven something to somebody yet...we have won 3 games, we could easily lose the next 13. Playoffs are a very real possibility right now but make no mistake that we haven't proven anything to anybody yet.

The same pundits who have been dragged through the mud here for years for "bashing the Bills" are now put on pedestals and applauded for their praise. Going into this game most people thought it would be a blow out. Many have taken the same arrogance among them of the fans we all said we disliked, but it appears many are just envious. Im very proud of the way this team went about its business on Sunday, it won a game it was supposed to and didnt get down when the score was against them. However I can't say Im proud of Whitner for what he did, or of its fans and their reactions none the less. One would think that Bills fans above all else should and would know better. But alas day by day even the painfully obvious is pointed out over and over again.

It wasn't stupid, don't showboat like that in our house, our team responded well to what Whitner did, especially Edwards. I jumped to my feet and cheered after Whitner knocked his ass out.

[Crisis]

What message did Whitner send exactly?

That he was pissed off because Huggins jogging is as fast as he is full speed?

I'm curious as to what message tackling someone so obviously late is sending any message that's positive.

that no one is going to show us up in our house.

i'm glad whitner did it, i wish huggins would've been knocked out cold.

[Mr. Pink]

By the way, there is still confusion over exactly who and what the Raiders penalty was on.

Jerry Sullivan said it was on JaMarcus Russell in the Buffalo News.
It could have been on Higgins before he got into the end zone.
It could have been on Higgins after the Donte hit.

Ironically, there is no official listing of their penalty on NFL.com, but the one on Donte clearly states that.


I'm still trying to figure out what the penalty on the Raiders was for...

Higgins for easing up on running? I've never seen a player flagged for jogging before.

Higgins for his celebration? No, the rule is basically as long as the guy doesn't go on the ground...Higgins didn't...or if it's not a group celebration...it wasn't...it's not a flag. He celebrated a TD much like any other player does, a little dance, and it's over.

That leaves us to Sullivan's comment on JMarc...maybe that is what the penalty is for. Seeing we never saw what JMarc did on that play. Maybe if someone was at the game they could comment on whether or not he got in someone's face or started taunting after the throw?

Nothing I saw on TV said "unsportsmanlike foul" on the Raiders.

[Crisis]

i'd put this right up there with "late hit on tom brady" as acceptable penalties for bills players to take.

[Mr. Pink]

that no one is going to show us up in our house.

i'm glad whitner did it, i wish huggins would've been knocked out cold.


There's a better way for Whitner to get that effect actually...take a better angle and tackle Higgins before the endzone. The best way of all to stop that play though falls on Poz. He made a bad gamble on the throw. Let Higgins catch it, short of the first, tackle him. Instead he erratically dove and missed the ball entirely.

But no one is talking about that part of the play. Just the aftermath.

By the logic of this board...Gibril Wilson was just "sending Lynch a message."

[Crisis]

lol, if gibril wilson was a bill we'd all be *****ing about his ejection right now. there's a line to draw obviously...whitner didn't cross it.

[Mr. Pink]

lol, if gibril wilson was a bill we'd all be *****ing about his ejection right now. there's a line to draw obviously...whitner didn't cross it.

Honestly, what Whitner did was worse...

A slap to the head where you have a helmet on...what's that gonna hurt? Absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile a tackle 7 yards deep in the end zone when you're usually not tackled and tackled from behind on top of it? More risk of you letting up and hurting a knee, ankle, etc.

But what Bills players do is fine, no matter what, and what the other team does is egregious. That's what this message board has taught me.

If Huff would have done that to Steve Johnson, for example, the entire board would be pitchin a fit over it.

[DraftBoy]

It wasn't stupid, don't showboat like that in our house, our team responded well to what Whitner did, especially Edwards. I jumped to my feet and cheered after Whitner knocked his ass out.


You're right it was beyond stupid. Showboat like what, the guy eased up over the last 30 because he had smoked our D down the middle, it happens all the time when players pull away. Again don't excuse Whitner's stupidity because of the jersey he wears, the same play happens in Miami to Lynch and everybody is crying afoul. Again the team responded because thats what they get paid to do not because of Whitner did, he hurt the team more than he helped anything. Why would you cheer a blatant cheap shot?

[DraftBoy]

that no one is going to show us up in our house.

i'm glad whitner did it, i wish huggins would've been knocked out cold.

Who is Huggins?

[PECKERWOOD]

You're right it was beyond stupid. Showboat like what, the guy eased up over the last 30 because he had smoked our D down the middle, it happens all the time when players pull away. Again don't excuse Whitner's stupidity because of the jersey he wears, the same play happens in Miami to Lynch and everybody is crying afoul. Again the team responded because thats what they get paid to do not because of Whitner did, he hurt the team more than he helped anything. Why would you cheer a blatant cheap shot?

He earned the cheapshot by being an ******* and by blatantly taunting which he was penalized for. To be frank, I wish Whitner had hit him harder. If Joey Porter did this for Miami or Harris for NY I would understand 100%. Anyways, I thank the random who taunted Whitner because in reality it rallied up our team and we circled the wagons as an end result.

[Jan Reimers]

I love the NFL. Whitner could get suspended for a late, but clean, tackle, while Wilfork gets a slap on the wrist for a dirty, elbow-out hit on JP's knee.

[OpIv37]

that's extremely different.

whitner did something that sent a message to the team, the fans, everybody watching.

next offensive possession was a touchdown and next defensive possession was a huge 3 and out.

he didnt turn the ball over, he didnt cost us points, he didn't cost us ANYTHING.

maybe it was dumb, i dont think so, the team responded behind him and thats all that matters.

you don't know that the team responded to him. That's all conjecture. There's a good chance that **** would have happened anyway. But this board has a pathological need to defend Whitner no matter what, so they make up crap to make him look good after committing a dead ball personal foul. It's ****ing ridiculous.

[Dr. Lecter]

you don't know that the team responded to him. That's all conjecture. There's a good chance that **** would have happened anyway. But this board has a pathological need to defend Whitner no matter what, so they make up crap to make him look good after committing a dead ball personal foul. It's ****ing ridiculous.

While I am NOT defending Whitner, there have been teammates who said the hit got them even more fired up.


Again, it was still a dumb penalty but teammates have said they found it motivating, whether or not it whould have.

[OpIv37]

While I am NOT defending Whitner, there have been teammates who said the hit got them even more fired up.


Again, it was still a dumb penalty but teammates have said they found it motivating, whether or not it whould have.

because the alternative to saying that is bashing a teammate to the media, and they're not going to do that.

Just because a player says something to a reporter doesn't make it true.

[Dr. Lecter]

because the alternative to saying that is bashing a teammate to the media, and they're not going to do that.

Just because a player says something to a reporter doesn't make it true.

I don't disagree, although it is more than conjecture and I can see how him doing that very well could get teammates fired up, so it is not impossible and falls more in the "likely" category.

Still a dumb move though......

[DraftBoy]

I love the NFL. Whitner could get suspended for a late, but clean, tackle, while Wilfork gets a slap on the wrist for a dirty, elbow-out hit on JP's knee.

There was nothing clean about that tackle, it was from behind, after the play had ended.

[DraftBoy]

He earned the cheapshot by being an ******* and by blatantly taunting which he was penalized for. To be frank, I wish Whitner had hit him harder. If Joey Porter did this for Miami or Harris for NY I would understand 100%. Anyways, I thank the random who taunted Whitner because in reality it rallied up our team and we circled the wagons as an end result.


No he was not penalized, the penalty was on a Raiders player which nobody has yet been able to identify. Some think it was on Russell, some think it was on Higgins AFTER the Whitner tackle. He did not taunt prior to the Whitner's hit, he did nothing.

In reality Whitner lost his head, did a stupid thing, may get suspended, probably will be fined, and the team rallied because thats what they are supposed to do, not because of some hit. Do you really think a blatant cheap shop rallied this team? Please give them and their skill level a little more credit than that.

[Jan Reimers]

There was nothing clean about that tackle, it was from behind, after the play had ended.
I said it was late. It was not a dirty hit. But don't ever miss an opportunity to criticize.

Why don't you defend Wilfork while you're at it?

[DraftBoy]

I said it was late. It was not a dirty hit. But don't ever miss an opportunity to criticize.

Why don't you defend Wilfork while you're at it?

You also dont mention the fact that it was from behind and against a player who had almost come to a complete stop and never saw still chasing him beyond the goal line Whitner. But dont miss an opportunity to blindly support the Bills! How anybody is defending stupidity is beyond me, yet my post from early again rings true.

Ive discussed the Wilfork hit numerous times, just go back and read the threads from there. The comparison is apples to oranges, but feel free to try and pull in something that isnt really valid.

[Bulldog]

I think what irks me a lot about this play is that its the guys first touchdown catch of his career and Whitner who is a leader for this team does some so classless, and yet some fans defend him...

Yeah, slowing down and looking back at the defender is so classy.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, slowing down and looking back at the defender is so classy.

no one said it was.

But Donte's defense is the kindergarten "But he started it!"

[DraftBoy]

Yeah, slowing down and looking back at the defender is so classy.

You mean looking back to make sure you are gone and then slowing down because you are?

[Bulldog]

no one said it was.

But Donte's defense is the kindergarten "But he started it!"

DB and FTY sure seem to think he did nothing wrong. I just found it refreshing the somebody on the Bills actually has some pride and cares enough about winning to not allow somebody to show them up in their own stadium. Christ, DB and FTY act as though Whitner delivered some sort of cheapshot to the head or something.

[Pinkerton Security]

Honestly, what Whitner did was worse...

A slap to the head where you have a helmet on...what's that gonna hurt? Absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile a tackle 7 yards deep in the end zone when you're usually not tackled and tackled from behind on top of it? More risk of you letting up and hurting a knee, ankle, etc.

But what Bills players do is fine, no matter what, and what the other team does is egregious. That's what this message board has taught me.

If Huff would have done that to Steve Johnson, for example, the entire board would be pitchin a fit over it.

did you actually see the play? it was not a slap as much as it was a pissed off, "i wanna punch you but i'm a pansy so i'll punch you with an open fist". It was pretty much a punch. I'm not saying it was gonna hurt anyone but it was clearly more than a slap, and thats why he got ejected.

And no s*** what the other team did was egregious, its a Bills board! what do you expect! Look at Raiders forums and see that they still have a decent shot of making the playoffs for gods sake.

[madness]

This is our house! :flex:

[Bulldog]

You mean looking back to make sure you are gone and then slowing down because you are?

Yeah, thats what he was doing. For all the crap your giving people for defending Whitner, you sure seem hell bent on defending Higgins. He clearly did something to draw the ire of Whitner, namely slowing down and looking back as he coasted into the endzone.

[OpIv37]

DB and FTY sure seem to think he did nothing wrong. I just found it refreshing the somebody on the Bills actually has some pride and cares enough about winning to not allow somebody to show them up in their own stadium. Christ, DB and FTY act as though Whitner delivered some sort of cheapshot to the head or something.

if he didn't want to get showed up in his own stadium, he should have made the play in the first friggin place. It was a cheap shot. He tackled the guy after the play was over, 5 steps into the endzone, where you're not supposed to get tackled.

No one said Higgins was right. Higgins shouldn't have taunted him. But there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to respond to it. Whitner took an inappropriate way.

[Jan Reimers]

You also dont mention the fact that it was from behind and against a player who had almost come to a complete stop and never saw still chasing him beyond the goal line Whitner. But dont miss an opportunity to blindly support the Bills! How anybody is defending stupidity is beyond me, yet my post from early again rings true.

Ive discussed the Wilfork hit numerous times, just go back and read the threads from there. The comparison is apples to oranges, but feel free to try and pull in something that isnt really valid.
Oh, I forgot. Only your nit-picking opinions are valid.

BTW, I was neither defending or condoning Witner, just making the point that Wilfork's hit was more flagrant. I wouldn't mind Whitner getting a fine, but a suspension seems a bit much in light of what other players have gotten for far more egregious acts.

But it's OK. I know your opinions are fact, and mine are simply crap from a blind, stupid homer.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah, thats what he was doing. For all the crap your giving people for defending Whitner, you sure seem hell bent on defending Higgins. He clearly did something to draw the ire of Whitner, namely slowing down and looking back as he coasted into the endzone.

Im glad you are so sure of that given you were obviously on the field and heard that Higgins said something. Im not defending Higgins because he doesn't need it because he didnt do anything.

There is no head bob in the replay that would show that he was talking, he only looks back for a second or two twice, once to ensure he is gone and another after he has begun coasting to make sure he's not caught. The kid has no character issues whatsoever and was known as a quiet humble person at UTEP, so for Bills fans to asusme that he was jawing with Whitner without knowing anything about the guy is ridiculous, but because a Bills player was in the wrong, they cannot just stand up and say it was a dumb move and go on from that, instead they have to try and twist logic and make excuses for their guy. Yet they blasted Pats fans for doing the same thing about Wilfork...funny how the consistencies between the fans of teams we dislike and now our own teams fans continue to grow and grow. Ignorance, Cocky Attitude, Inflated Ego, Excuse Making...lets see what else happens as the season goes on.

[DraftBoy]

Oh, I forgot. Only your nit-picking opinions are valid.

BTW, I was neither defending or condoning Witner, just making the point that Wilfork's hit was more flagrant. I wouldn't mind Whitner getting a fine, but a suspension seems a bit much in light of what other players have gotten for far more egregious acts.

But it's OK. I know your opinions are fact, and mine are simply crap from a blind, stupid homer.

Here come the dramatics again, can you discuss just one topic without your typical overreaction and taking everything to the farthest possible degree?? Just one time, thats all I ask.

Your point about Wilfork is mute because its a different situation, first its a shot to the leg, not a tackle, it came from the front, not the back, it came during the process of a play not after. Wilfork probably should of gotten suspended for it, but I dont think he went out trying to take out Losman as Ive said numerous times before, but thats an argument for a different thread and one we've had before.

I agree with you Whitner deserves a fine and a suspension may be a bit much, but I can see where a precedent needs to be set. I said as much in my first post, did you not read that to see that we actually agree?

Your last paragraph is classic though, you do have a flair for the dramatic. Tell me something though, if your characterization of my thoughts was accurate, then why would I spend my time discussing it with "blind, stupid homers"?

[The Spaz]

This is going to be hilarious when he doesn't get suspended or fined...lol

[Jan Reimers]

DB, you should subscribe to Marv's theory that you can disagree without being disagreeable.

Your name-calling when anyone disagrees with you, and your presentation of your opinions as fact, have become extremely disagreeable.

[madness]

Im glad you are so sure of that given you were obviously on the field and heard that Higgins said something. Im not defending Higgins because he doesn't need it because he didnt do anything.

There is no head bob in the replay that would show that he was talking, he only looks back for a second or two twice, once to ensure he is gone and another after he has begun coasting to make sure he's not caught. The kid has no character issues whatsoever and was known as a quiet humble person at UTEP, so for Bills fans to asusme that he was jawing with Whitner without knowing anything about the guy is ridiculous, but because a Bills player was in the wrong, they cannot just stand up and say it was a dumb move and go on from that, instead they have to try and twist logic and make excuses for their guy. Yet they blasted Pats fans for doing the same thing about Wilfork...funny how the consistencies between the fans of teams we dislike and now our own teams fans continue to grow and grow. Ignorance, Cocky Attitude, Inflated Ego, Excuse Making...lets see what else happens as the season goes on.

:rofl: His TD celebration definitely showed how quiet and humble he is. DB, the human saint, reporting for duty.

Jauron's take... (and I can't say I don't agree with him)


On Donte Whitner’s late tackle of Johnnie Lee Higgins in the end zone:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Obviously, you don’t want that to happen. He should have been flagged for taunting, and you’d like to get that 15-yard penalty and not have it cancelled out. It is infuriating, there’s no doubt about it, but he’s just got to control himself, because it could have been a big advantage for us to get that 15 (yards) on the kickoff and add it to our return. That’s a first down and a half. In the heat of the battle, you can see it easily happening, but I’m sure he’d like to have that play back.

[OpIv37]

This is going to be hilarious when he doesn't get suspended or fined...lol

Doesn't change the fact that it was stupid and undisciplined. Doesn't change the fact that it cost the team yards.

[The Spaz]

Oh it does with everybody claiming they are right in here.

[DraftBoy]

Oh it does with everybody claiming they are right in here.

So by your logic then the Wilfork hit on Losman was 100% legal because the NFL didnt take any action...

[DraftBoy]

DB, you should subscribe to Marv's theory that you can disagree without being disagreeable.

Your name-calling when anyone disagrees with you, and your presentation of your opinions as fact, have become extremely disagreeable.

Point out the name calling please, and report to because its a clear violation of our TOS. Point out one place where I can a poster a name of any kind. This is way too easy Jan, you're better than this.

[The Spaz]

So by your logic then the Wilfork hit on Losman was 100% legal because the NFL didnt take any action...

I could have sworn he was fined.

[justasportsfan]

I Loved Trents comment on the play. He doesn't condone what happened but he pretty much backed up Whitner in so many words. Thats how you win your teammates over.

[justasportsfan]

I could have sworn he was fined.
he was.

[Pinkerton Security]

I could have sworn he was fined.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/28/wilfork_hit_with_12500_fine_by_nfl/


yup

[The Spaz]

I could have sworn he was fined.

Actually by my logic I am right:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/27/wilfork_fined_12500_for_hit_on_losman/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+New+England+Patriots+news

[DraftBoy]

Actually by my logic I am right:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/27/wilfork_fined_12500_for_hit_on_losman/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+New+England+Patriots+news

Ok then so we have it straight, if Whitner is fined in any way it makes his actions illegal, and wrong, correct?

[The Spaz]

Ok then so we have it straight, if Whitner is fined in any way it makes his actions illegal, and wrong, correct?

Yes and he was penalized. I just am not agreeing with it being a dirty and him being suspended.

[justasportsfan]

Ok then so we have it straight, if Whitner is fined in any way it makes his actions illegal, and wrong, correct?
NO, because Wilfork claimed he has friends on the bills team and Whitner has no friends on the raiders side . That would make Whitners tackle justified. You don't cheap shot friends.














jk

[DraftBoy]

Yes and he was penalized. I just am not agreeing with it being a dirty and him being suspended.

It was dirty but I agree a suspension is a bit much.

[madness]

Edwards reaction...


On Donte Whitner’s late hit on Johnnie Lee Higgins and his reaction to the hit:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I saw that happen and I wasn’t very pleased with the way he kind of showboated a little bit there at the end. I don’t know if he meant to do it, I think he was maybe a little too excited about them getting a big play in the situation. I’m never going to be a guy that promotes dirty play, but in the same regard, I would say that Johnnie’s reaction there is almost a dirty play at the Bills, too. I know Donte (Whitner) takes a lot of pride in the defense as well as I take a lot of pride in the offense, and that fired me up, too, seeing Donte do that, that there was still plenty of time left. I think I saw some of the coaches shaking hands on the other sideline and I saw some people get out of the stands and leave and get to their cars early. The game wasn’t over and those people that left and those people that were shaking hands on the other sideline were definitely regretting doing that.<o:p></o:p>

[Bulldog]

Im glad you are so sure of that given you were obviously on the field and heard that Higgins said something. Im not defending Higgins because he doesn't need it because he didnt do anything.

There is no head bob in the replay that would show that he was talking, he only looks back for a second or two twice, once to ensure he is gone and another after he has begun coasting to make sure he's not caught. The kid has no character issues whatsoever and was known as a quiet humble person at UTEP, so for Bills fans to asusme that he was jawing with Whitner without knowing anything about the guy is ridiculous, but because a Bills player was in the wrong, they cannot just stand up and say it was a dumb move and go on from that, instead they have to try and twist logic and make excuses for their guy. Yet they blasted Pats fans for doing the same thing about Wilfork...funny how the consistencies between the fans of teams we dislike and now our own teams fans continue to grow and grow. Ignorance, Cocky Attitude, Inflated Ego, Excuse Making...lets see what else happens as the season goes on.

And as far as I know, Whitner doesn't have any character issues either. I don't know whats so hard for you to understand. Whitner felt like Higgins was showboating and wasn't going to stand for it. I for one have no problem with it. I guess that's the difference between you and me.

[Dr. Lecter]

From where I was sitting, it sure as hell loked like Higgins was jawing (That was in my end).

It does not defend what Whitner did.

It is kinda funny how some totally disregard this and others want Whitner in front of a firing squad.

He took a dumb penalty. It is probably the first personal foul of his career. He over-reacted.

And it is, or should be, done with. The league should not take any more action and he and the team shold grow and learn from it.

[Agent007]

Whitner got penalized for it.

Nothing else will come out of this.

It was not a dirty hit or anything.

[DraftBoy]

From where I was sitting, it sure as hell loked like Higgins was jawing (That was in my end).

It does not defend what Whitner did.

It is kinda funny how some totally disregard this and others want Whitner in front of a firing squad.

He took a dumb penalty. It is probably the first personal foul of his career. He over-reacted.

And it is, or should be, done with. The league should not take any more action and he and the team shold grow and learn from it.

I haven't seen anyone who wants Whitner in front of a firing squad most posters agree that a fine may be necessary but a suspension is probably overkill.

[justasportsfan]

All depends what your definition of dirty is. IMO dirty means hitting someone to cause injury.

[DraftBoy]

All depends what your definition of dirty is. IMO dirty means hitting someone to cause injury.

I feel as though any hit that is either well after a play ends, is intended to send a message*, or is unneccesary is a dirty hit.

The intended to send a message part is tricky because you have LB's and DB's who lay good licks on WR's over the middle that are legal with the message not to try them anymore there.

However a hit like Warren Sapp's on Chad Clifton a few years back on the oppositte side of the field was a dirty hit. Its really a big judgement call, to me Whitner hit on Higgins was dirty, but that does not make him a dirty player.

[trapezeus]

even if the raiders don't get their personal foul, whitner's only puts the ball at the 50 for a kick out of the endzone. if he did it after a play where the raiders still held the ball, then it would have been stupid. in context of this specific situation, the message sent outweighed the penalty received. and then it was cancelled in the end by the raiders.

Higgins didn't do anything all day and gets one catch and looks back at the 20 as though he's been burning the bills all day. their offense was nothing special and one play doesn't entitle you to show boat in, especially when there is so much time left on the clock.