Quick observation on Peters....

[gr8slayer]

After re-watching the last two games I have come to the conclusion that his problems in pass protection have less to do with conditioning and more to do with bad technique. This is somewhat odd because his greatest strength to this point in his career has been his technique.

First off; one of the first things you are taught as an offensive lineman is the "kick step". It's nearly impossible to explain without an visuals but it's a way of creating space between you and the defender so that you can decide what he's going to do and react to it in a timely manner. The kick step should be straight back and your other leg should not leave the ground or else you are literally jumping. Jumping is the worst thing you can do because that gives the DE a split second head start on you and you can't react to it as fast. Observe Peters' left leg in this picture, he is in the process of executing the kick step, all while staying low:
<img src="http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/78649516.jpg?v=1&amp;c=NewsMaker&amp;k=2&amp;d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193587004028B1CDC4E870471EED65F16D6" id="ctl12_ctlComp_imgThumb" class="thumbHeight">

The second thing you are taught is to keep your elbows tight and close to your body with your hands out and open so you can dish out the punishment with the punch straight to the chest in hopes of knocking that DE off balance. One thing that you see a lot of guys do which is horrible technique is literally jump straight back and throw their arms half way up in the air. Here's what the elbows should look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/gr8slayer/340x.jpg

If both of these are done correctly you should be in a good stance with both feet firmly planted on the ground, your butt down, and knees bent. This allows you to get better leverage on the defender, something that a lot of these 6'4+ guys struggle with at times.

These are two techniques which if you master you can become what Peters was last year in pass protection. Sadly these are two techniques that have, for one reason or another, left his mind. I question just how healthy he is and if his knee has anything to do with him jumping instead of having that powerful kick step.

If all of this sounds ******ed and doesn't make sense I'll try and find some pictures to illustrate exactly what I'm talking about and hopefully it will help you to understand. This is about as elementary as it gets in describing the inner workings of good technique but it's pointless to go in too deep with it.

[syracuse76]

naw its all good. i just want to the guy to step it up a notch. against JAX i saw it a couple times. but against the raiders he was exposed.......ALOT!!! he is not the same as last year that is for sure. but the guy is an all pro. i think this game at st louis will be a different story and he will be back in form.
i hope

[jamze132]

Uh, he's out of shape. That's his problem.

[Luisito23]

Yeah, his bad play so far is definitely because he's not 100% in playing form right now...Glad he won't even have to break a sweat this week though. I expecyt (and hope) for him to be back to his old self after our bye.

[casdhf]

Quicker observation: he's been getting beat like Tina Turner.

[Dr. Lecter]

Great breakdown.

I am sure it is not helping him that he missed 6 weeks of practicing these techniques and getting his timing down.

[jamze132]

Great breakdown.

I am sure it is not helping him that he missed 6 weeks of practicing these techniques and getting his timing down.
That and he's out of breath by the 8th play of the drive.

[The Spaz]

He better be drilling Chris Long into the ground quite often this game!!

[Pride]

Great analysis...

I'm all for hating on Jason Peters at this point... but is it possible that bad technique is due to him being out of shape? A lot of athletes fall to bad technique when they are too tired.

[Coach Sal]

Gr8 job, Gr8.

You broke it down well and were correct in mostly everything you wrote, as far as good pass protection technique.

The only thing I will add/counter is that it also often depends on what pass protection scheme you use. You may not take the same first step or have your arms/hands in the exact same position if your pass protection scheme changes from one play to another.

For example, a team may "slide" their protection to one side (maybe on a rollout). They may "tight protect" (every OL takes his inside gap), or they may "fan protect" (very common in the NFL now.....OL take their outside gap, and sometimes guards loop around the tackle to take the DE).

A lot of the same principles apply to all of these, but there are slight deifferences in steps and movements and arm/hand angles.

[Coach Sal]

I don't know if anyone else caught it, but during Dick Jauron's presser this week he was asked about Jason Peters' play.

He said Peters has been very, very good this year and even dominant at times. He acknowledged that he has been beaten a few times, but said while those plays stand out to everyone, he has otherwise been great and thinks its amazing he's been so good after coming in so late.

Just thought I'd share that, whether you agree or disagree.

[justasportsfan]

Peters is rusty.

[TigerJ]

The only thing I would disagree with, gr8slayer is that I've heard one of the criticisms of Peters is that he sometimes gets lazy on technique and tries to use his freakish athleticism to get by. If that is the case, he as much as anyone needed training camp to drill the fundamental techniques, and that is he area where he will struggle to catch up.

[gr8slayer]

Gr8 job, Gr8.

You broke it down well and were correct in mostly everything you wrote, as far as good pass protection technique.

The only thing I will add/counter is that it also often depends on what pass protection scheme you use. You may not take the same first step or have your arms/hands in the exact same position if your pass protection scheme changes from one play to another.

For example, a team may "slide" their protection to one side (maybe on a rollout). They may "tight protect" (every OL takes his inside gap), or they may "fan protect" (very common in the NFL now.....OL take their outside gap, and sometimes guards loop around the tackle to take the DE).

A lot of the same principles apply to all of these, but there are slight deifferences in steps and movements and arm/hand angles.
Oh of course; I was actually referring more to the two sacks he gave up vs. the Raiders and the lack of technique on both. Both were straight up the field rushes and he executed the kick step on both leading me to believe that both were the same type of protection scheme. Obviously you always want to protect your inside gap but in this case he didn't even look inside so I have a feeling it was more of a 1 on 1 DE vs. OT, I'll have to check again to see who had that gap.

[gr8slayer]

The only thing I would disagree with, gr8slayer is that I've heard one of the criticisms of Peters is that he sometimes gets lazy on technique and tries to use his freakish athleticism to get by. If that is the case, he as much as anyone needed training camp to drill the fundamental techniques, and that is he area where he will struggle to catch up.
I don't care who you are you NEED training camp. I hated going to spring training every year while playing but I NEEDED it because it's a great refresher and you can find out what you aren't good (or have forgotten) and figure it out in a few weeks.

[madness]

The only thing I would disagree with, gr8slayer is that I've heard one of the criticisms of Peters is that he sometimes gets lazy on technique and tries to use his freakish athleticism to get by. If that is the case, he as much as anyone needed training camp to drill the fundamental techniques, and that is he area where he will struggle to catch up.

I totally agree, technique also tends to go out the window as players tire which may be the reason Peters broke down on those plays.

Peters has been solid for the most part and have no doubt he'll return to form as the season goes on but you can be damned sure he's thanking his stars that none of his letdowns didn't cost the Bills a game. I bet even he has second guessed his holdout strategy at one point during this three game span.

[Bufftp]

being out of shape is a quick way to impact your technique negatively....

[gr8slayer]

being out of shape is a quick way to impact your technique negatively....
True, but the knee might not be helping the cause any. I'm not saying I know anything, just a hunch.

[Ed]

Peters looked dominant in the second half, particularly the 4th quarter, so I don't think his bad play had much to do with conditioning. Even if he wasn't in game shape, I would expect his technique to break down as the game went on, not in the first quarter. He just seemed to be playing kind of lazy or unmotivated. Our whole O looked pretty flat though for the first half.

So I'd agree that his technique definitely looked bad, but had a lot more to do with effort then conditioning.

[gr8slayer]

Peters looked dominant in the second half, particularly the 4th quarter, so I don't think his bad play had much to do with conditioning. Even if he wasn't in game shape, I would expect his technique to break down as the game went on, not in the first quarter. He just seemed to be playing kind of lazy or unmotivated. Our whole O looked pretty flat though for the first half.

So I'd agree that his technique definitely looked bad, but had a lot more to do with effort then conditioning.
I don't know, re-watching some of the games from last year his technique looked sound throughout most of the game. We'll see, I imagine he's a couple of weeks away from being back to 100%

[RedEyE]

Poor conditioning will inevitably effect technique. His fat ass should have been at camp rather pouting about negating a contract he agreed to sign.

[trapezeus]

i don't know specifics of linemen's play and i think between gr7slyer and coachsals post, i'll definitely be looking at that more carefully this week.

I am going with the lack of conditioning crowd, because he has played well at times, even late in games after getting a break.

[Bufftp]

I think his technique also suffrered from no training camp "getting the rust out" and reps.

[DrGraves]

i quickly observed that peters is a dumb and better whip is ass into shape.

[jamze132]

Gr8 job, Gr8.

You broke it down well and were correct in mostly everything you wrote, as far as good pass protection technique.

The only thing I will add/counter is that it also often depends on what pass protection scheme you use. You may not take the same first step or have your arms/hands in the exact same position if your pass protection scheme changes from one play to another.

For example, a team may "slide" their protection to one side (maybe on a rollout). They may "tight protect" (every OL takes his inside gap), or they may "fan protect" (very common in the NFL now.....OL take their outside gap, and sometimes guards loop around the tackle to take the DE).

A lot of the same principles apply to all of these, but there are slight deifferences in steps and movements and arm/hand angles.
Yeah, that and the fact that he's out of shape.

[jamze132]

Guys this is really simple.

Peters is like Barnes from "Platoon".

Only Peters can kill Peters.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yeah, that and the fact that he's out of shape.

Except he really is not our of shape. If he was, he would have struggled more in the 4th quarter instead of improving.

[buffalony85]

It's like his second week of training camp, damn what do you want?

[hydro]

Yeah, that and the fact that he's out of shape.

I didn't know that when your body fat % goes down that means your are out of shape...

He might not be in football shape but the guy is fit.

[Saratoga Slim]

Great analysis...

I'm all for hating on Jason Peters at this point... but is it possible that bad technique is due to him being out of shape? A lot of athletes fall to bad technique when they are too tired.

Exactly what I was going to say. If you're sucking wind, technique is the first thing out the window, whatever sport you happen to be playing.

[camelcowboy]

He just playing to his current deal. Getting beat by scrubs isn't helping his cause no matter how dominate he has been the other plays. The "few" times he's been beat have led to turnovers.

[Billiever86]

Ive noticed his outside technique is rusty....nobody is bullrushing Peters....peters hardly gets beat on the inside...which is good...for now....

but his outside needs some work...we saw it last week....getting beat by the outside...ends and LBs...ran wide and hard to the outside...and were beating him with the basic forearm block and getting around him....i think his outside speed is the question for me..plus hes not getting the best pushes on the defenders that rush around...they are staying up after first contact....

[jamze132]

Except he really is not our of shape. If he was, he would have struggled more in the 4th quarter instead of improving.
Well you can contribute your theory to him being taken out of the game frequently for a breather. And lets not forget, he was one on one almost the entire 4th qtr only having to worry about a DE. The rest of the game he was taking on DEs, LBs, and DTs.

He even admitted he was out of shape.

[jamze132]

I didn't know that when your body fat % goes down that means your are out of shape...

He might not be in football shape but the guy is fit.
Ok sniper, lets not get picky. We are talking about football so logically I am reffering to football shape.

I do a lot of working out with my profession and I can tell you that someone who has a small bodyfat measurement doesn't necessarily mean you are "fit".

[justasportsfan]

he may have played well at times, but he wasn't his dominating probowl self that he was using to get more $$$

[gr8slayer]

Saw some of the same today. But this was a better all-around game for him.

[Dr. Lecter]

Right now his biggest problem is that he is messing up at the worst times and making big plays. Big negative plays. When he misses he totally wiffs on the block and will get Trent killed.

I agree he is not as bad as one perceives, but he is also not close to Pro Bowl level. And since he held out like he did, people expect him to come in and be ready to be all the All-Pro level.

[DraftBoy]

I agree with Gr8 overall, I dont think that knee is 100%. His kick step on some of the bad plays either doesnt come or is slow to start, which would lead me to think he's got one bad wheel. His freakish athleticism is not as freakish and he is a little slower in moving, which again says to me he has a bad knee.

I dont know that this issue is as simple as conditioning as we all hope it to be. Either way while Peters is improving he is not dominating and as Doc pointed out his bad plays come at the worst possible time.

[gr8slayer]

:bf1: He's getting his form back over the past month or so.

[M]

:bf1: He's getting his form back over the past month or so.

Too bad the season's almost over.