The Interior run game must improve

[THATHURMANATOR]

What can be done to improve this aside from getting a new Center and RG.

[madness]

Scrap the zone blocking scheme... again.

[hydro]

Scrap the zone blocking scheme... again.

Yes! One of the biggest lines in the NFL shouldn't be using the zone blocking scheme. One of the teams that had the most success with it was the Broncos and they were noted to always have one of the smallest lines.

[mchurchfie]

We have the third biggest OLine in the NFL, we need to start moving some bodies off the ball. I agree, scrap the zone blocking and lets start smashmouthing it.:punk:

[THATHURMANATOR]

We have the third biggest OLine in the NFL, we need to start moving some bodies off the ball. I agree, scrap the zone blocking and lets start smashmouthing it.:punk:
I am for this however while our line is big overall the center and RG are tiny and get blown up virtually every run between the tackles(especially Fowler)

[TacklingDummy]

Let Jackson start or give him more carriers.

[Dr. Lecter]

Great idea TD. Bench our best RB. Just brilliant.

I would also say that Butler has been better than Dockery, so LG is a bigger problem and that Butler is not tiny.

[HHURRICANE]

Let Jackson start or give him more carriers.

This is going to be unpopular on this site, and very hard to pull off at OBD. There is some merit if Jackson wasn't so good in the passing game.

[HHURRICANE]

The scheme is the problem. The running game should be better and it's not all on Fowler.

Fowler is small and the weakest link but the running game shouldn't still have the problems we are having.

[TacklingDummy]

Great idea TD. Bench our best RB. Just brilliant.



What do you mean, Jackson is already the backup.

[mchurchfie]

Let Jackson start or give him more carriers.
"Fred really has a knack for being able to move north and south," said Bills guard Brad Butler

[homeslice5484]

put Preston at center....whenever he played against the starters in pre season our running game up the middle was so much better!

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is going to be unpopular on this site, and very hard to pull off at OBD. There is some merit if Jackson wasn't so good in the passing game.
It just wouldn't be true either. Lynch is clearly better than Jackson.

[justasportsfan]

Lynch softens up the D for Jackson to come in and make plays.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not to mention Jackson gets to run on 3rd down when the defense is more often in pass defense mode and there will be more room to run.

[Jan Reimers]

What can be done to improve this aside from getting a new Center and RG.
We definitely need a Center, but I think Butler is coming along nicely at RG and may end being a stud there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Not to mention Jackson gets to run on 3rd down when the defense is more often in pass defense mode and there will be more room to run.
Exactly! Jacksons big runs are always in obvious passing situations. This isnt meant to be a shot at Jackson either as he is very good in his own right. I am happy the team has that kind of depth.

[HHURRICANE]

It just wouldn't be true either. Lynch is clearly better than Jackson.

Actually it's not a question of better but of what you are trying to accomplish. I think Fred Jackson is a quicker, more ellusive back, and might actually do more for this team as the starter. Than Lynch could come in and just pound it down the opposing teams throat by wearing them down later in the game.

A bunch of Bills fans I was with yesterday thought this was a good idea but the problem that I see is that you would be eliminating Jackson as one of your passing threats. I think Trent needs all the targets he can get right now.

Plus there is no way Lynch would ever be happy with this so I really don't ever see this as a real option anyway.

[gr8slayer]

Quit zone blocking, more smash mouth football.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Actually it's not a question of better but of what you are trying to accomplish. I think Fred Jackson is a quicker, more ellusive back, and might actually do more for this team as the starter. Than Lynch could come in and just pound it down the opposing teams throat by wearing them down later in the game.

A bunch of Bills fans I was with yesterday thought this was a good idea but the problem that I see is that you would be eliminating Jackson as one of your passing threats. I think Trent needs all the targets he can get right now.

Plus there is no way Lynch would ever be happy with this so I really don't ever see this as a real option anyway.
It is a ridiculous idea IMO.

[mchurchfie]

Lynch is a our "Take it to Da hause" back on any given play.:punk:

[justasportsfan]

It is a ridiculous idea IMO.


What do you expect from HH?

Two back sets, fine. 1-2 punch, fine. Jackson before LYnch . Nah. Just fix the OL and we won'thave to call back Lynch's runs for 1st down.

[mchurchfie]

. I think Fred Jackson is a quicker, more ellusive back, and might actually do more for this team as the starter.
I totally disagree, Lynch is in another class ability wise, he just needs to use his blocks a little better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What do you expect from HH?

Two back sets, fine. 1-2 punch, fine. Jackson before LYnch . Nah. Just fix the OL and we won'r have to call back Lynch's runs for 1st down.
:shakeno:

I am with you here. It is obvious that Jackson is an intregal part of the offense and I don't mind that he gets in so often becuase the guy can play and is a better receiver out of the backfield.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I totally disagree, Lynch is in another class ability wise, he just needs to use his blocks a little better.
Its not even that they just need to open a freaking hole for the guy or stop continuing to run up the middle.

[gr8slayer]

Jackson over Lynch? Now I've heard it all :lmao:

Now people are just trying to be stupid and say things to get people going.

[justasportsfan]

:shakeno:

I am with you here. It is obvious that Jackson is an intregal part of the offense and I don't mind that he gets in so often becuase the guy can play and is a better receiver out of the backfield.
When Lynch is on the bench, D's expect a pass which enables Jackson to make plays.

[mchurchfie]

Its not even that they just need to open a freaking hole for the guy or stop continuing to run up the middle.
Very true.

[madness]

Jackson speed is his only asset over Lynch until this line's run blocking gets better. He's just making it through 5 sec. hole faster then Lynch can.

Jackson's not going to do much once he gets into the second level unless he has room. Lynch just makes room.

[TacklingDummy]

How did Jackson do last year when Lynch was injuried?

Washington: 16 Att, 82 yards, 5.1 YPC, 4 Rec, 69 yards.

Miami: 15 Att, 115 yards, 7.7 YPC, 1 Rec, 6 yards

Jackson may be the better back.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How did Jackson do last year when Lynch was injuried?

Washington: 16 Att, 82 yards, 5.1 YPC, 4 Rec, 69 yards.

Miami: 15 Att, 115 yards, 7.7 YPC, 1 Rec, 6 yards
Right he is a good player. No one is going to argue with that. However Lynch is a better player and there is no doubt about it.

[Dr. Lecter]

Stats rarely tell the entire story TD.

Watch the two run. Watch the damn game and it is clear that Lynch is a better back.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Right he is a good player. No one is going to argue with that. However Lynch is a better player and there is no doubt about it.This has poll written all over it :biggrin:

[hydro]

TD never fails to ruffle feathers. It's a gift...

[justasportsfan]

How did Jackson do last year when Lynch was injuried?

Washington: 16 Att, 82 yards, 5.1 YPC, 4 Rec, 69 yards.

Miami: 15 Att, 115 yards, 7.7 YPC, 1 Rec, 6 yards

Jackson may be the better back.
Wasn't miami ranked at the bottom last year in rush D? That usually works for you when you talk about JP beating weak teams. You might want to be consistent with your way of thinking.

[HHURRICANE]

It is a ridiculous idea IMO.

The idea isn't ridiculous and it's not the first time I've heard it either. It's just not going to happen.

Justa want's to block any thoughts that might actually allow people to talk about other ideas that he doesn't like or agree with.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The idea isn't ridiculous and it's not the first time I've heard it either. It's just not going to happen.

Justa want's to block any thoughts that might actually allow people to talk about other ideas that he doesn't like or agree with.
It really is ridiculous.

[justasportsfan]

It really is ridiculous.
I only block ridiculous ideas. Don't want to scare lurkers away with HH posts and threads. I'm doing it for the good of BZ.

[TacklingDummy]

Wasn't miami ranked at the bottom last year in rush D? That usually works for you when you talk about JP beating weak teams. You might want to be consistent with your way of thinking.

Lynch against Miami was:

Away:19 A, 61 yards, 3.2 YPC, 1 TD, 3 Rec, 24 yards

Home: 23 A ,107 yards 4.7 YPC, 0 Rec, 1 fumble


It's clear by comparing Jackson/Lynch Miami games that Jackson is the better overall back. Plus Jackson is the better runner, quicker, has more speed, more ellusive, better in passing game, better blocker, the only thing Lynch has that Jackson doesn't is power.

[HHURRICANE]

I totally disagree, Lynch is in another class ability wise, he just needs to use his blocks a little better.

I'm not the one that proposed that Jackson should start and I don't think it's something we should do. I just said the idea had some merit.

With that said, if he's truly in another class ability than he better start improving his YPG because it's one of the worst in the league. He plays like a FB.

[gr8slayer]

Stat people :shakeno:

Watch the damn game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Stat people :shakeno:

Watch the damn game.
Seriously!!!

Also Lynch had 2 nice runs called back on penalties that had nothing to do with the run.

[gr8slayer]

Seriously!!!

Also Lynch had 2 nice runs called back on penalties that had nothing to do with the run.
Jackson is a role player at best, Lynch is an every down back. There's not a person in the league that thinks otherwise.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Pretty much sums it up G8

[TacklingDummy]

Also Lynch had 2 nice runs called back on penalties that had nothing to do with the run.

That's part of football.

[HHURRICANE]

Stat people :shakeno:

Watch the damn game.

I watch the games. Lynch needs to add a few extra long runs to his game. He's got great potential but he doesn't break many long ones to the house.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Jackson is a role player at best, Lynch is an every down back. There's not a person in the league that thinks otherwise.
I would venture to say that only the most novice of football fans could try to argue otherwise.

[TacklingDummy]

Jackson is a role player at best, Lynch is an every down back.


Every down back that gets replaced by Jackson on 3rd down. That's not really an "every down" back. :snicker:

[gr8slayer]

I watch the games. Lynch needs to add a few extra long runs to his game. He's got great potential but he doesn't break many long ones to the house.
It's amazing that you notice Lynch's lack of statistics but you don't notice the lack of blocking in front of him. The guy is having to make his own holes because our sorry ass OL can't block their own shadows.

[TacklingDummy]

I watch the games. Lynch needs to add a few extra long runs to his game. He's got great potential but he doesn't break many long ones to the house.

His style of running is spastic.

[TacklingDummy]

It's amazing that you notice Lynch's lack of statistics but you don't notice the lack of blocking in front of him. The guy is having to make his own holes because our sorry ass OL can't block their own shadows.

Maybe his field vision is not that great. Jackson seems to have no problem finding the holes.

[theanswer74]

IMO I think Lynch has bad vision sometimes and the OL blocks bad sometimes, the combination of the two is the problem.

Zone blocking requires the RB to find the hole, meaning he must read the blocks. There are times I am screaming at Lynch wonder where he is going, other times I am yelling at the OL. We hardly get everyone blocking and reading well at the same time, that's our problem.

Just from watching Lynch, I think he is better off having a designated hole to run in instead of making him read the blocks.

Fred Jackson seems a little better at reading blocks then Lynch.

[justasportsfan]

Lynch against Miami was:

Away:19 A, 61 yards, 3.2 YPC, 1 TD, 3 Rec, 24 yards

Home: 23 A ,107 yards 4.7 YPC, 0 Rec, 1 fumble


It's clear by comparing Jackson/Lynch Miami games that Jackson is the better overall back. Plus Jackson is the better runner, quicker, has more speed, more ellusive, better in passing game, better blocker, the only thing Lynch has that Jackson doesn't is power.
Lynch makes things easier for Jackson by ounishing D's and softening them up for Jackson to make plays when Lynch is resting. Again teams don't think we're running wheh Lynch is one the bench which amkes it easier for Jackson to make plays.

[TacklingDummy]

IMO I think Lynch has bad vision sometimes and the OL blocks bad sometimes, the combination of the two is the problem.

Zone blocking requires the RB to find the hole, meaning he must read the blocks. There are times I am screaming at Lynch wonder where he is going, other times I am yelling at the OL. We hardly get everyone blocking and reading well at the same time, that's our problem.

Just from watching Lynch, I think he is better off having a designated hole to run in instead of making him read the blocks.

Fred Jackson seems a little better at reading blocks then Lynch.
Pretty much sums it up 74

[HHURRICANE]

IMO I think Lynch has bad vision sometimes and the OL blocks bad sometimes, the combination of the two is the problem.

Zone blocking requires the RB to find the hole, meaning he must read the blocks. There are times I am screaming at Lynch wonder where he is going, other times I am yelling at the OL. We hardly get everyone blocking and reading well at the same time, that's our problem.

Just from watching Lynch, I think he is better off having a designated hole to run in instead of making him read the blocks.

Fred Jackson seems a little better at reading blocks then Lynch.

Uh oh, your posts makes complete sense.

People will never understand that there are a few issues that might be contributing to some of the running problem with Lynch.

[TacklingDummy]

Lynch makes things easier for Jackson by ounishing D's and softening them up for Jackson to make plays when Lynch is resting. Again teams don't think we're running wheh Lynch is one the bench which amkes it easier for Jackson to make plays.

I like how you took out the part by the time Miami came to town. Just figure out the Jackson/Lynch played in the same game? :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

I like how you took out the part by the time Miami came to town. Just figure out the Jackson/Lynch played in the same game? :snicker:

I wasn't so sure where we played first but in the 2nd game miami was definitely injured and I remain that Jackson benefits from Lynch wearing down D's when he's running the ball.

[HHURRICANE]

It's amazing that you notice Lynch's lack of statistics but you don't notice the lack of blocking in front of him. The guy is having to make his own holes because our sorry ass OL can't block their own shadows.

This site needs to lose the all or nothing attitude around here.

I never said that the o-line isn't part or most of the problem here. Hell I didn't even come up with the Jackson idea but I'm getting called out for it. But to say it has no merit is ridiculous because I've heard it a ton down here in Atlanta from fans that just "watch the games."

The blocking scheme doesn't work. Agreed. However it appears as though Jackson does a little better with it at times and is more of a threat to break some bigger runs.

You don't agree that Lynch has struggled to break some big runs?

[Mahdi]

Scrap the zone blocking scheme... again.
We dont run a zone blocking scheme,,,, I dont know where that idea is coming from. The Bills are a man blocking scheme... just not good at it.

Denver, Oakland, Houston... those are zone blocking teams. They run stretch plays often and get their OL on the move and cut down defenders low to create cutback lanes. The Bills dont do that. The Bills are a man to man blocking team with pulling guards and tackles. That aint zone blocking.

[Mahdi]

How did Jackson do last year when Lynch was injuried?

Washington: 16 Att, 82 yards, 5.1 YPC, 4 Rec, 69 yards.

Miami: 15 Att, 115 yards, 7.7 YPC, 1 Rec, 6 yards

Jackson may be the better back.
How good Lynch is is evidenced by how many times he gets hit in the backfield or at the LOS and either makes a man miss or plants him in the ground with a stiff arm. Jackson is good but if he got all Lynch's carries he would not be able to do what Lynch does.

[njsue]

Replace Melvin Fowler.

***** Slap Jason Peter's.