The official JP doesn't suck thread

[yordad]

First, let me ask you where the game got out of hand. Where you thought, "OK, with the way our defense is playing, even if we score TDs from here on out we will probably still lose". Well, I thought that when Jauron was holding the flag deciding to throw it after Royals fumble. By the time the Bills got the ball back, they were down 3 scores in the fourth quarter with a D that looked like it had no chance of making several keys stops.

I always thought JPs biggest problem was when he had to do too much with too little. For example, playing from behind, with a weak D, and not enough weapons or time to get it done. At this point his strongest asset can actually become his weakest. We all know he is great at throwing the long ball. But, how great is he at it when everyone in the stadium knows it is coming, and our O line is blocking like a bunch of broken sand bags.

The Cards, at this point, could sit back, play a deep zone or prevent in the secondary, throw in a blitz from time to time, and their D-line can pin their ears back. They had no trouble applying pressure all day, even with a four man rush.

Losman's fourth quarter fumble, with the game arguable out of reach, was forced with a 4 man rush. It was done when the Bills had 6 blocking. And a seventh (Royal) chiped the DE before going on a short route. On this play, the DTs both did stunts around their DEs. In zone blocking, these would then become the assignment of the OT. On the O right side, Langston picked up the DT on his end, as Butler moved over to cover the DE. On the left side Dockery started to block the DE, with the help of Jackson. But, Peters complete whiffed as the DT rounded him after his stunt. Jackson then released on the inside DE and whiffed on Gabe Watson the stunting DT also.

Now, should Losman have expected more time with 6.5 people blocking 4? Should Losman had expected Peters and then Jackson to completely wiff? This is his blind side. He was getting set to fire it on a count of 4. Should he have fired it sooner with 7 people coving 3.5 receivers?

Now, Royal was underneath for what would have been a 2 yard play. But, down by three scores in the 4th, on second and 14, with protection called, I think it would have been reasonable to try and get a little more. And reasonable to expect someone to block the stunting DT. Especially when that someone (peters) had help from a RB.

This error put us behind by 4 scores, and ended the game officially.

How did JP play up til this point?

First drive: A Card DT blew between Fowler and Dock as Fowler completely whiffed. He nearly took the hand off JP has zero fault in this one. He hit Lynch in the gut with a handoff, and Lynch looked like a deer in head lights. I'm not saying it was really Lynch's fault either, but at least he had the benifit of seeing the DT coming unblocked, where the QB would have his back turned (as JP did).

Second drive: JP throws a strike to Hardy to convert a third and 7. But honestly I missed the drive in transit. Please tell me what happened.

Third drive: Bills down 14-0 (2 Cards drives, 2 TDs), on a 3rd and 14 deep in their own end, JP dodged a rusher and fired a beautiful pass hitting a sprinting Lee in stride for an 87 yard TD.

Fourth drive: JP went 2 for 2 and scored a TD on a keeper.

Fifth drive: No passes attempted. Field goal

Sixth drive: Losman threw a 5 yard strike to Royal who then blew the game. Jauron decided the game wasn't important enough to challenge the play.

So really, was JP to blame for this loss? Seems everyone is hanging this loss on JP. I think the problem was our defense (pretty much the entire D, but mostly the coverage, which might have been scheme) and our horrible blocking. Oh, and Jauron's brain fart didn't help either.

[Typ0]

it's not about this loss. IT's about the fact that JP has never perfromed that well. Not going to have a lot of takers for this thread the blinders are off....justa should stop by though!

[Inetpub]

lol.

wait...lol....

trying to defend jp with those stats dont work. 4 years of failure vs those stats = fail.

[yordad]

it's not about this loss. IT's about the fact that JP has never perfromed that well. Not going to have a lot of takers for this thread the blinders are off....justa should stop by though!I believe the blinders are still on, considering I don't even think you read this.

I don't think he performed all too poorly.

[Pinkerton Security]

after watching trent play, it was like watching a mental midget try to break down defenses. his decision making is so slow that he holds the ball and takes sacks he shouldnt. trent does still do this once in a while, but he is getting much better, whereas JP has not. he still falls into the same mistakes as he always did.

[mchurchfie]

I always thought JPs biggest problem was when he had to do too much with too little.
Yeah, that would be his brain. He has absolutely no concept or the capacity to manage a game successfully, I don't care how many bombs he throws to Lee Evans.

[yordad]

lol.

wait...lol....

trying to defend jp with those stats dont work. 4 years of failure vs those stats = fail.Stats? I tried to avoid the stats altogether. I don't think they tell the story in this game. But, since you brought it up, JP had a QB rating over 101. It was over 121 prior to the garbage time int.

[yordad]

after watching trent play, it was like watching a mental midget try to break down defenses. his decision making is so slow that he holds the ball and takes sacks he shouldnt. trent does still do this once in a while, but he is getting much better, whereas JP has not. he still falls into the same mistakes as he always did.Pretty easy to take sacks when you call all out protection, and still don't get a lot of time. Considering the Cards were getting this pressure with 4 rushers, it would have been fairly hard to get open, and fairly easy to think your backside would have more time. And, fairly easy to try to wait for something longer to develop considering the score.

[justasportsfan]

it's not about this loss. IT's about the fact that JP has never perfromed that well. Not going to have a lot of takers for this thread the blinders are off....justa should stop by though!
JP sucks. It was his fault that the D couldn't stop the cards on 3rd downs.

The jenkins screw up on ST was JP's fault.

The inability to get a running game with our 1-2 punch was his fault.

[Bill Cody]

I have to give the Lickers credit- they are resilient. 5 sacks, 2 fumbles and a pick- if in the history of the NFL there's been a more misleading 3 digit QB rating I haven't seen it. There's a good reason his last name is Lossman. You'd need to be a truly great team to overcome that many negative plays from the QB. We're not that good.

[justasportsfan]

I have to give the Lickers credit- they are resilient. 5 sacks, 2 fumbles and a pick- if in the history of the NFL there's been a more misleading 3 digit QB rating I haven't seen it. There's a good reason his last name is Lossman. You'd need to be a truly great team to overcome that many negative plays from the QB. We're not that good.

Drew Blesoe.

[Griff]

broken freakin' record. JP is never responsible for his bad performance its always somebody elses fault. I'm glad JP doesn't try to pass the buck as much as his fans do.

[trapezeus]

Yordad, this is what i wrote in the official JP sucks thread for Justa. He was claiming that the offense wasn't dumbed down for him. The stats show otherwise and it shows how the running game didn't fail him. He failed his running game by not being effective.

Bills Drive stats from the cardinals game.

first drive - 5 plays. Key plays, bills come out throwing, but then run 2x after Losman enters. he fumbles.
second drive - 7 plays, really 6 since there was a bills penalty, 2 go for runs. losman tries to scramble for 1st down on 3rd and 3 and gets run down by a 250 lb DE and catches him before losman turns the corner (technically the 3rd run). WEAK! I thought losman was mobile. end result is punt
3rd drive - 4 plays. one bills penalty. so really three plays. First two are rushing plays. TD pass...more a prayer than a good play,but we'll take it.
4th drive- 8plays, two key plays, evans end round for 22 and reed catch for 19. if reed gets a better pass it goes for more yards. five of the 8 plays are rushing plays. End result TD Losman run.
5th drive first of second half - 4 plays. FG. 4 lynch runs. Shows a lot of confidence in the passing game when the game is still within reach of 10 points.
6th drive - 1, royal fumble. Royal is erratic, but he tries too hard when losman is in. He plays better with edwards by playing smart. score is 31-17, down by 3 scores.
7th drive - 2 plays, losman fumbles by sitting in pocket too long and not making a play. zero runs
8th drive - 3 plays, of which losman was sacked 2 times. 66% of the plays on that drive were sacks. Awesome. zero runs because they are down even more
9th drive - 3 plays, Losman throws and INT. 0 throws.
10th drive - 11 plays, losman throws for 58 yards in garbage time. So his 220 yards passing can be reduced to 133 without the lucky bomb play that happened to work out for us and then you can back out 58 because they are thrown when the game's outcome is already known. So losman threw for 77 yards when the game was close and he didn't need a bomb. the 101 QB rating doesn't point that out. 1 rush play by the by.


Of the 28 plays run by the bills when they were within 10 points in the early 3rd Q, the bills chose to run 15 times. That's more than 50%. They came out throwing with edwards, but ran with losman when the game was close. Do you need more proof that they dumbed it down for him and that he ran a piss poor offense?

[Bill Cody]

Drew Blesoe.

Set 10 Bills passing records his first year here and is 7th in all time NFL passing yardage. The only thing JP does well (the deep ball) Drew did better. JP is a bust and a failure. Deal with it.

[trapezeus]

JP sucks. It was his fault that the D couldn't stop the cards on 3rd downs.

The jenkins screw up on ST was JP's fault.

The inability to get a running game with our 1-2 punch was his fault.

you mention the jenkins penalty as though he makes that penalty as frequently as JP blows games. you also fail to mention that it didn't really look like he was offsides when they showed it again. IT was a weak call. and if it was the right call,you give JP the benefite of the doubt a million times. Can we allow Jenkins one mistake. I rarely hear his name so he isn't like chris Watson out there.

If this was a game where we just had to put up more points than the cardinals and not worry about defense, JP failed. he didn't keep up his end of the bargain early. and by doing so, the bills margin of defeat was much larger.

[Pinkerton Security]

Set 10 Bills passing records his first year here and is 7th in all time NFL passing yardage. The only thing JP does well (the deep ball) Drew did better. JP is a bust and a failure. Deal with it.

wow. he didnt help the Bills win, so I dont care about him.

THat,and he hasnt been on the team in like 4 years...

[Pinkerton Security]

Pretty easy to take sacks when you call all out protection, and still don't get a lot of time. Considering the Cards were getting this pressure with 4 rushers, it would have been fairly hard to get open, and fairly easy to think your backside would have more time. And, fairly easy to try to wait for something longer to develop considering the score.

from what i remember, its not like he was sacked within 2 seconds. I understand that we didnt give him AS MUCH time as we should have with only 4 DL's rushing, but from what I recall, I was screaming at the top of my lungs "THROW THE DAMN BALL!!!!" when he kept getting sacked, thinking he just held onto it 1 second too long.

[Bill Cody]

wow. he didnt help the Bills win, so I dont care about him.

THat,and he hasnt been on the team in like 4 years...

Justa brought him up not me, guess it makes him feel better to deflect criticism from his binky. But thanks for posting.

[justasportsfan]

you mention the jenkins penalty as though he makes that penalty as frequently as JP blows games. you also fail to mention that it didn't really look like he was offsides when they showed it again. IT was a weak call. and if it was the right call,you give JP the benefite of the doubt a million times. Can we allow Jenkins one mistake. I rarely hear his name so he isn't like chris Watson out there.

If this was a game where we just had to put up more points than the cardinals and not worry about defense, JP failed. he didn't keep up his end of the bargain early. and by doing so, the bills margin of defeat was much larger.


haha! Instead of blasting Jenkins for this you spin it the other way and make it look like it was JP's fault. Busted.

[patmoran2006]

JP sucks, period.

I dont like him and I cant wait til he's gone.

Having said that, we didnt have a better backup option so lets all just pray Trent can stay healthy for the remainder of the season.

[Pinkerton Security]

Justa brought him up not me, guess it makes him feel better to deflect criticism from his binky. But thanks for posting.

no, its just obvious that if anyone was going to bring up the mostly pre-bills Bledsoe glory, you would. and only you would, seeing as how apparently you are the last blatant Drew fan on the board. but thanks for posting.

[justasportsfan]

Set 10 Bills passing records his first year here and is 7th in all time NFL passing yardage. The only thing JP does well (the deep ball) Drew did better. JP is a bust and a failure. Deal with it.
exactly. :up: Just like the qb stats are not accurate those stats you put up doesn't show how bad he sucked.

[justasportsfan]

no, its just obvious that if anyone was going to bring up the mostly pre-bills Bledsoe glory, you would. and only you would, seeing as how apparently you are the last blatant Drew fan on the board. but thanks for posting.
he's not even a bills fan. He's just pissed that the coaches gave the job to JP and FIRED Drew.

He should be going to cowboys mbs and try to blast Romo.

[Bill Cody]

exactly. :up: Just like the qb stats are not accurate those stats you put up doesn't show how bad he sucked.

If you think JP's good and Drew sucks I know how worthless your opinion is. It really doesn't matter though. After this year Food Lion beckons for your hero.:bigwave:

[Bill Cody]

he's not even a bills fan. He's just pissed that the coaches gave the job to JP and FIRED Drew.

He should be going to cowboys mbs and try to blast Romo.

You don't get to decide who a fan is and who isn't. Just because I liked Drew doesn't make JP any better or worse than he is. It's really pitiful you feel the need to attack Drew every time I post. Drew isn't here, I accept that, why are we even talking about him?

[justasportsfan]

You don't get to decide who a fan is and who isn't. Just because I liked Drew doesn't make JP any better or worse than he is. It's really pitiful you feel the need to attack Drew every time I post. Drew isn't here, I accept that, why are we even talking about him?
Just pointing out that if there is a most misleading stat , it's his entire carreer.

[trapezeus]

haha! Instead of blasting Jenkins for this you spin it the other way and make it look like it was JP's fault. Busted.

didn't say that it was jenkins fault that jp sucks. i'm just saying if you can defend 4 years of shoddy play, surely you'd be willing to give a guy who normally never makes a mistake the benefit of the doubt.

reading comprehension.

[gr8slayer]

Can someone please start an "official" "Who ****ing Cares About J.P. Losman" thread?

[Bill Cody]

Just pointing out that if there is a most misleading stat , it's his entire carreer.

At least he had a career.:snicker:

[mchurchfie]

Bledsoe and JP are two peas in a pod though Bledsoe had more success early in his career. They both had big arms, small brains, were one dimensional longball throwers, and were horrible at game managment. I still remember when we played KC and we were trying to make a last dig drive to save the game and Bledsoe throws the ball away on fourth down so he wouldn't take a sack...brilliant!!:ill:

[Griff]

JP sucks, period.

I dont like him and I cant wait til he's gone.

Having said that, we didnt have a better backup option so lets all just pray Trent can stay healthy for the remainder of the season.
haha pick up Kerry Collins, tell him we released him so he would have a chance to mature as QB.

Then do the same thing with JP in 10 years if he figures out how to play.

[bills_7]

First, let me ask you where the game got out of hand. Where you thought, "OK, with the way our defense is playing, even if we score TDs from here on out we will probably still lose". Well, I thought that when Jauron was holding the flag deciding to throw it after Royals fumble. By the time the Bills got the ball back, they were down 3 scores in the fourth quarter with a D that looked like it had no chance of making several keys stops.

I always thought JPs biggest problem was when he had to do too much with too little. For example, playing from behind, with a weak D, and not enough weapons or time to get it done. At this point his strongest asset can actually become his weakest. We all know he is great at throwing the long ball. But, how great is he at it when everyone in the stadium knows it is coming, and our O line is blocking like a bunch of broken sand bags.

The Cards, at this point, could sit back, play a deep zone or prevent in the secondary, throw in a blitz from time to time, and their D-line can pin their ears back. They had no trouble applying pressure all day, even with a four man rush.

Losman's fourth quarter fumble, with the game arguable out of reach, was forced with a 4 man rush. It was done when the Bills had 6 blocking. And a seventh (Royal) chiped the DE before going on a short route. On this play, the DTs both did stunts around their DEs. In zone blocking, these would then become the assignment of the OT. On the O right side, Langston picked up the DT on his end, as Butler moved over to cover the DE. On the left side Dockery started to block the DE, with the help of Jackson. But, Peters complete whiffed as the DT rounded him after his stunt. Jackson then released on the inside DE and whiffed on Gabe Watson the stunting DT also.

Now, should Losman have expected more time with 6.5 people blocking 4? Should Losman had expected Peters and then Jackson to completely wiff? This is his blind side. He was getting set to fire it on a count of 4. Should he have fired it sooner with 7 people coving 3.5 receivers?

Now, Royal was underneath for what would have been a 2 yard play. But, down by three scores in the 4th, on second and 14, with protection called, I think it would have been reasonable to try and get a little more. And reasonable to expect someone to block the stunting DT. Especially when that someone (peters) had help from a RB.

This error put us behind by 4 scores, and ended the game officially.

How did JP play up til this point?

First drive: A Card DT blew between Fowler and Dock as Fowler completely whiffed. He nearly took the hand off JP has zero fault in this one. He hit Lynch in the gut with a handoff, and Lynch looked like a deer in head lights. I'm not saying it was really Lynch's fault either, but at least he had the benifit of seeing the DT coming unblocked, where the QB would have his back turned (as JP did).

Second drive: JP throws a strike to Hardy to convert a third and 7. But honestly I missed the drive in transit. Please tell me what happened.

Third drive: Bills down 14-0 (2 Cards drives, 2 TDs), on a 3rd and 14 deep in their own end, JP dodged a rusher and fired a beautiful pass hitting a sprinting Lee in stride for an 87 yard TD.

Fourth drive: JP went 2 for 2 and scored a TD on a keeper.

Fifth drive: No passes attempted. Field goal

Sixth drive: Losman threw a 5 yard strike to Royal who then blew the game. Jauron decided the game wasn't important enough to challenge the play.

So really, was JP to blame for this loss? Seems everyone is hanging this loss on JP. I think the problem was our defense (pretty much the entire D, but mostly the coverage, which might have been scheme) and our horrible blocking. Oh, and Jauron's brain fart didn't help either.

Best post i have seen in a while

[Inetpub]

Stats? I tried to avoid the stats altogether. I don't think they tell the story in this game. But, since you brought it up, JP had a QB rating over 101. It was over 121 prior to the garbage time int.

10-21.

think about it while you keep reading your 121 qb rating blah blahs. And the funny thing is, I dont even have to tell you what that stat is.

[Philagape]

The Great Wall of China is not enough room to list the excuses/rationalizations/deflections.

JP Losman must be the unluckiest man in the history of the world to constantly have all these things go wrong around him while he's blameless.

[DrGraves]

Pros: Strong Arm

Cons: No Pocket Presence
Doesn't protect the ball
Stares down his target
Doesn't look off the coverage
His facial hair is so long that he can't see out of his helmet

[zone]

I would take Bledsoe today out of retirement over JP.

[Typ0]

Bledsoe wasn't that bad...but he couldn't move and the game passed him by.

[zone]

Bledsoe wasn't that bad...but he couldn't move and the game passed him by.
Exactly to even compare him to Lossman is insulting, why do you think he left this team. He was like if your going to start this moron over me I am out.

Bledsoe was 4 time pro bowler with a winning career record and a winning post season record.

What has JP done again?

[Typ0]

What has JP done again?

he didn't cause the defense to suck last weekend.

[TacklingDummy]

Bledsoe wasn't that bad...but he couldn't move and the game passed him by.

It's funny that JP gets the excuses of bad o-line, no one to throw to, bad weather, wet ball, etc... but Drew does not.

[Griff]

he didn't cause the defense to suck last weekend.

no he just did a good job of keeping them on the field.

[trapezeus]

i'd take year 5 bledsoe over year 5 losman any day of the week...and most sane people would as well. he was on his way to his first superbowl. losman is flushing games down the bowl....

but to be clear the bledsoe we got was old and way past his prime.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Some of you are just plain gonna blame JP for bank failures, gas prices and the fact that your fruity looms ride up your crack.

Fact is the D stopped the Cards 0 times on 3rd down conversion the entire 1st half... That's 6 out of 6 failed opportunities. At the same time JP led the O to 2 TD's and a FG in 3 successive drives including the 1st drive of the 2nd half.

The second half... When JP supposedly kept the D on the field too long... They managed to stop the Cards 3 out of 6 3rd down attempts (an impressive 50%). But... As I recall... On 2 of those stops, they allowed 4th down conversions... And a FG on the 3rd.

You really gotta wanna hate JP if you wanna put the majority of the blame on him.

Just accept JP for what you all say he is... A BACK-UP... And move on!!

[Philagape]

JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!!!!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/chris-crocker.jpg

[Yasgur's Farm]

Remember the moral integrity you preach!

[Griff]

Pretty easy to take sacks when you call all out protection, and still don't get a lot of time. Considering the Cards were getting this pressure with 4 rushers, it would have been fairly hard to get open, and fairly easy to think your backside would have more time. And, fairly easy to try to wait for something longer to develop considering the score.

All JP does is wait for something to develop. He's probably still in the pocket in Arizona waiting for Lee to get open.

[yordad]

Can we allow Jenkins one mistake. I rarely hear his name so he isn't like chris Watson out there.
Hey, I like Jenkins. I thought it was a way-too-healthy spot to begin with, and I don't think he lined up in the neutral zone. But, it was costly. And, that wasn't JPs fault.

Chris Watson was a CB. Jenkins is a wide receiver. Soo... he, of course, isn't like Chris Watson. And since Jenkins is a wide receiver, it would be nice to hear his name out there.

[Griff]

Hey, I like Jenkins. I thought it was a way-too-healthy spot to begin with, and I don't think he lined up in the neutral zone. But, it was costly. And, that wasn't JPs fault.

Chris Watson was a CB. Jenkins is a wide receiver. Soo... he, of course, isn't like Chris Watson. And since Jenkins is a wide receiver, it would be nice to hear his name out there.

wow you are just looking to blame anybody but JP.

[yordad]

wow you are just looking to blame anybody but JP.Was it not costly? The score was 24-17 before the play. The field goal woulda made it 27-17. Still a ball game. Bills ball w 3 minutes left in the third.

You act like I blamed an entire loss on Jenkins.

[Griff]

Was it not costly? The score was 24-17 before the play. The field goal woulda made it 27-17. Still a ball game. Bills ball w 3 minutes left in the third.

You act like I blamed an entire loss on Jenkins.

I forget how many points did we score after that? I wouldn't have mattered if they took 3 points off for the Cards, JP preceded to throw the one sweet bomb and his only good drive out the window by starting to suck like it was week 2 of 2007.

[Griff]

I love that Draz can't come up with a decent argument so he negs... freakin classic. Maybe he's still waiting for the argument to develop... hope he doesn't fumble.

[gr8slayer]

It simply amazes me that we still have this pointless argument, even to this day.

John Paul Losman is not a starting caliber QB in the NFL. He's a guy who has all the natural god given talent in the world but has no brain to speak of. He is a guy who will come into a game, throw one of the most beautiful deep balls in the league, and then go back under his rock for the rest of the game. He holds on to the ball too long, he doesn't go through all his reads, he turns the ball over, takes too many sacks, and clearly still has nightmares of Troy Vincent because he refuses to run the rock when the play breaks down.

He is a GREAT backup QB, probably one of only five guys in the NFL I'd want backing up my starting QB. He's a good gap filler for a few quarters or even a game or two, but he is not a starter at the NFL level, and if he is it's because someone is hurt and he's the only option available. Good guy, nice guy, extremely gifted, not an NFL QB.

[Yasgur's Farm]

wow you are just looking to blame anybody but JP.And you're looking to blame only JP?

[Yasgur's Farm]

He is a GREAT backup QB, probably one of only five guys in the NFL I'd want backing up my starting QB.Agree!
He's a good gap filler for a few quarters or even a game or twoAgree!

[Yasgur's Farm]

I love that Draz can't come up with a decent argument so he negs... freakin classic. Maybe he's still waiting for the argument to develop... hope he doesn't fumble.
Some of you are just plain gonna blame JP for bank failures, gas prices and the fact that your fruity looms ride up your crack.

Fact is the D stopped the Cards 0 times on 3rd down conversion the entire 1st half... That's 6 out of 6 failed opportunities. At the same time JP led the O to 2 TD's and a FG in 3 successive drives including the 1st drive of the 2nd half.

The second half... When JP supposedly kept the D on the field too long... They managed to stop the Cards 3 out of 6 3rd down attempts (an impressive 50%). But... As I recall... On 2 of those stops, they allowed 4th down conversions... And a FG on the 3rd.

You really gotta wanna hate JP if you wanna put the majority of the blame on him.

Just accept JP for what you all say he is... A BACK-UP... And move on!!

[Griff]

And you're looking to blame only JP?

him, the o line, secondary and Perry. But you people act like his 3 turnovers in our territory and 5 sacks were a blessing.

[feldspar]

JP DOES kinda suck. He is not the guy you want in there when playing from behind.

Sure, he made a couple of big plays in the game, but they were off-set by equally bad plays. The rest of the time he was generally ineffective. And he was absolutely terrible in the fourth quarter, where he turned the ball over twice, was sacked 4 times, and scored zero points. Until the garbage drive at the end with a little over 3 minutes to go, the offense generated a whopping total of about 8 yards in the 4th quarter. We weren't even able to score any points to keep the score more respectable.

The Bills were only down by 10 points near the end of the third quarter when stupid play began to snowball on us. It started with the Jenkins offsides on the field goal, which gave them 4 points. The Royal fumble gave them 3 more...you throw the friggin' challenge flag here, Dick.

So we are down 17 points and have the ball going into the 4th...it's still not entirely out of reach. But JP is not a guy who can change the momentum of a game. JP fumbles the ball on the 3rd play. This was his fault, and it gives Arizona another 7 points.

We get the ball back, JP is sacked on first AND second down, then throws a meaningless pass to Evans, and we punt.

The Bills defense finally gets a 3-and-out. When the Bills get the ball back, JP throws a bone-headed interception at midfield on the third play.

It's right about now that I'm completely thrilled that Jauron didn't challenge the Royal fumble...now we get to call an extra timeout to prolong our suffering. Anyway, the Cards drive to within field goal range but go for it on fourth down because they don't need any more points.

The ball gets turned over on downs, and JP gets to pad his 4th quarter stats by gaining about 40 yards in the air in a drive that ended in a failed 4th down attempt in the Cardinals redzone. At least we get to see JP sacked AGAIN on this drive.

We were in this game until the end of the 3rd quarter.

Some buttplug is going to look at JP's QB rating and think that he played well in this game; he didn't. Certain stats, such as fumbles and sacks, don't show up in the rating. And certain intangibles like leadership, pocket presence, and poise never show up.

[Griff]

It simply amazes me that we still have this pointless argument, even to this day.

John Paul Losman is not a starting caliber QB in the NFL. He's a guy who has all the natural god given talent in the world but has no brain to speak of. He is a guy who will come into a game, throw one of the most beautiful deep balls in the league, and then go back under his rock for the rest of the game. He holds on to the ball too long, he doesn't go through all his reads, he turns the ball over, takes too many sacks, and clearly still has nightmares of Troy Vincent because he refuses to run the rock when the play breaks down.

He is a GREAT backup QB, probably one of only five guys in the NFL I'd want backing up my starting QB. He's a good gap filler for a few quarters or even a game or two, but he is not a starter at the NFL level, and if he is it's because someone is hurt and he's the only option available. Good guy, nice guy, extremely gifted, not an NFL QB.

disagree, great back ups win games because opponents aren't prepared for them, like in the come back game. The Cards just remembered that they just have to cover Lee and JP will collapse.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Atta boy Griff... Go gettem ladd!!!

[yordad]

We were in this game until the end of the 3rd quarter.
And how did JP do up until then?

[feldspar]

And how did JP do up until then?

Not nearly good enough.

He had the long 87-yard pass to Evans...that was blown coverage and Evans was completely WIDE open. ANY QB should make that throw. Not to totally take that away from him, but c'mon. That play was half of his production through 3 quarters.

Besides that play, Losman had about 90 yards passing through 3 quarters. Do you think that is good?

I did like the call to run JP into the endzone on third down. Finally a coordinator that plays to a QB's strengths.

And I don't understand your reasoning. The 4th quarter is when games are won, and JP completely crapped the bed in the 4th quarter.

[yordad]

Not nearly good enough.

He had the long 87-yard pass to Evans...that was blown coverage and Evans was completely WIDE open. ANY QB should make that throw. Not to totally take that away from him, but c'mon. That play was half of his production through 3 quarters.

Besides that play, Losman had about 90 yards passing through 3 quarters. Do you think that is good?

I did like the call to run JP into the endzone on third down. Finally a coordinator that plays to a QB's strengths.

And I don't understand your reasoning. The 4th quarter is when games are won, and JP completely crapped the bed in the 4th quarter.My reasoning? I quoted you.

[feldspar]

My reasoning? I quoted you.

Sorry. I read something into it. I thought you were being facetious and suggested that he played well through 3 quarters...kind of a rhetorical question...if it was an innocent question, the way you phrased it sounded a little like sarcasm, as though I was leaving out something important that would change the importance of what I did say.

Internet conversations will do that to you sometimes.

[yordad]

Sorry. I read something into it. I thought you were being facetious and suggested that he played well through 3 quarters...kind of a rhetorical question...if it was an innocent question, the way you phrased it sounded a little like sarcasm, as though I was leaving out something important that would change the importance of what I did say.

Internet conversations will do that to you sometimes.Well, my main point was he didn't play bad when the game was still in reach.

You stated "We were in this game until the end of the 3rd quarter."

Now, if you add your statement to your answer of my question, "And how did JP do up until then?", then you have my point.

So, you are kind of agreeing with me. But, for some reason your big post curiously focuses on what happened when we were not "in the game".

[feldspar]

Well, my main point was he didn't play bad when the game was still in reach.

You stated "We were in this game until the end of the 3rd quarter."

Now, if you add your statement to your answer of my question, "And how did JP do up until then?", then you have my point.

So, you are kind of agreeing with me. But, for some reason your big post curiously focuses on what happened when we were not "in the game".

I knew your question was laced. Make up your mind, dude; you can't have it both ways.

I'm not agreeing with you at all, either. First of all, like I said, JP did not play very well throughout the first 3 quarters. Apart from a relatively gimme play, he produced about 90 yards passing during the first 3 quarters. Again, do think that's good? Or just "not bad?"

Secondly, the game was not completely out of reach in the 4th quarter, where JP looked absolutely atrocious. We were down by 3 scores, and the Bills had 4 possessions in the quarter. We were good for 3 possessions if we executed...and there was always the possibility of an on-side kick.

Again, games are won or lost in the fourth quarter. JP looked terrible. Even if the game was out of reach (which is wasn't), how do you excuse these drives?...

1st drive: JP fumbles in his own redzone
2nd drive: sack, sack, pass, punt
3rd drive: interception on the third play
4th drive: garbage time...turnover on downs

[yordad]

Apart from a relatively gimme play, he produced about 90 yards passing during the first 3 quarters. He would have only had 6 passes.

So, you want to take out 1 out his first 6 drives? How about you take all of his first six drives. He had a perfect passer rating. And, even if you take out the awesome pass, he had a 97.91.

I think you continue to attribute the opening drive fumble to JP. He can't be faulted for 1 turnover or sack going into the fourth quarter.

[trapezeus]

Hey, I like Jenkins. I thought it was a way-too-healthy spot to begin with, and I don't think he lined up in the neutral zone. But, it was costly. And, that wasn't JPs fault.

Chris Watson was a CB. Jenkins is a wide receiver. Soo... he, of course, isn't like Chris Watson. And since Jenkins is a wide receiver, it would be nice to hear his name out there.

i'm not blaming jp for the jenkins penalty. i'm simply saying if you give JP a million excuses and chances. let's give jenkins one.

also i compared jenkins to watson because watson was the baseline for crappy special teams play.

[yordad]

i'm not blaming jp for the jenkins penalty. i'm simply saying if you give JP a million excuses and chances. let's give jenkins one.

also i compared jenkins to watson because watson was the baseline for crappy special teams play.Hey, I give Jenkins one, so I assume you are refurring to someone else. I mean, I still don't think he was offsides.

[trapezeus]

It simply amazes me that we still have this pointless argument, even to this day.

John Paul Losman is not a starting caliber QB in the NFL. He's a guy who has all the natural god given talent in the world but has no brain to speak of. He is a guy who will come into a game, throw one of the most beautiful deep balls in the league, and then go back under his rock for the rest of the game. He holds on to the ball too long, he doesn't go through all his reads, he turns the ball over, takes too many sacks, and clearly still has nightmares of Troy Vincent because he refuses to run the rock when the play breaks down.

He is a GREAT backup QB, probably one of only five guys in the NFL I'd want backing up my starting QB. He's a good gap filler for a few quarters or even a game or two, but he is not a starter at the NFL level, and if he is it's because someone is hurt and he's the only option available. Good guy, nice guy, extremely gifted, not an NFL QB.

what i don't get is why your first paragraph is spot on, but then can write the second paragraph. if he can't play well consistently, why is he a great backup? a good backup would have let us run our regular offense. he would have had the faith of his offense.

And that is why i write on this subject so much. people seem to think he is a good backup that will keep us competitive. and he isn't. maybe he'll sneak a game or two against a weak team. but he won't give you 3 weeks consistency. reich did. other Backups do around the league. jp doesn't.

[feldspar]

So, you want to take out 1 out his first 6 drives? How about you take all of his first six drives. He had a perfect passer rating. And, even if you take out the awesome pass, he had a 97.91.

I think you continue to attribute the opening drive fumble to JP.

Don't look at his passer rating. Marshawn Lynch had a perfect passer rating for the year last year.

And no, I don't attribute the opening drive fumble to JP. That was the offensive line's fault. A Cardinal was there AS the ball was being handed off.

I DO blame the delay of game penalty on JP on the next drive though...you know, the drive where we punted on 4th and 5...no penalty, no punt.

Look, I know that Arizona had the ball for a good portion of the game...I'm saying that I'm not impressed with how JP played. That Evans TD pass was not particularly impressive only because Evans was completely wide open. 90 yards passing other than that play before the 4th quarter is not impressive.

His 4th quarter play was beyond terrible. How do you somehow vindicate him for that? Teams can easily get the ball 3 times in a quarter, especially with the possibility of an onside kick. THAT was the game right there in the fourth quarter, which is why I focused on it. His two turnovers were 100% his fault. The sacks were his fault.

JP did not play well. He threw the ball 7 times in the first 3 quarters, which accounts for his high rating.

[yordad]

Don't look at his passer rating. Marshawn Lynch had a perfect passer rating for the year last year.


Stats? I tried to avoid the stats altogether. I don't think they tell the story in this game.I laid out the drives in the original post for the exact purposes of skipping the rating argument. I'm beginning to think you didn't read the first post.

[feldspar]

I laid out the drives in the original post for the exact purposes of skipping the rating argument. I'm beginning to think you didn't read the first post.

Dude, you may have said that you are trying to ignore all stats in your first post, but I was responding DIRECTLY to a post where you basically did nothing BUT quote the stat of his passer rating. Yet again, you are trying to have it both ways.



He had a perfect passer rating. And, even if you take out the awesome pass, he had a 97.91.


What about the delay of game penalty that cost a drive?

The thing that I don't understand is why you completely want to ignore the 4th quarter. That's when the game was on his shoulders, and that's when he played like he didn't even belong in the NFL. C'mon. If we score on the first drive in the fourth quarter, we are only down 10 points with plenty of time left. The game wasn't over.

We only had him throw the ball 7 times through three quarters...maybe that was a mistake, but maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe he does suck. As soon as we had him start throwing the ball is when we needed him to...that's when he caved in a huge way.

[yordad]

Dude, you may have said that you are trying to ignore all stats in your first post, but I was responding DIRECTLY to a post where you basically did nothing BUT quote the stat of his passer rating. Yet again, you are trying to have it both ways.

What about the delay of game penalty that cost a drive?

The thing that I don't understand is why you completely want to ignore the 4th quarter. That's when the game was on his shoulders, and that's when he played like he didn't even belong in the NFL. C'mon. If we score on the first drive in the fourth quarter, we are only down 10 points with plenty of time left. The game wasn't over.

We only had him throw the ball 7 times through three quarters...maybe that was a mistake, but maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe he does suck. As soon as we had him start throwing the ball is when we needed him to...that's when he caved in a huge way.

I. I can have it both ways.

A. His rating was good

B. His play wasn't bad

C. You are responding to a response, and not responding to the original post.




II. You said yourself the game was out of reach by the end of the third.




III. I still don't think you read the first post.

A. You don't see the non-stat related "argument", at all.

B. You are asking me about a delay of game penalty and stated it was JPs fault, like a fact.
1) I admitted to not having seen the drive.
2) You couldn't entirely know whose fault it was.

C. I went over, in detail, exactly what unfolded on the first drive of the 4th quarter.

D. You missed the part where I gave reasons why he looked bad when everyone in the stadium knew he was going to throw.
1) You should have had him throw some "before you need him to".
2) the D knew it was coming.
3) Our O-line sucked




IV. You fail to understand that trying to establish the run is a wise choice

A. when facing a very good passing attack

B. with your best CB out.

C. NTM, despite the fact JP was completing 83% (5 of 6) in the first half, the Bills only had 22 plays.




V. You said the game was out of reach, and you said it was on his shoulders in the 4th. Who is trying to have it both ways?

[feldspar]

OK, now I'm questioning your ability to reason, along with your reading comprehension.

I've repeated said that the Bills were in it through end of the third quarter, which is the beginning of the 4th quarter. I felt we were officially out of it when JP fumbled on the first drive of the 4th quarter. My argument has always been consistent.

You seem to want to completely ignore the 4th quarter like it didn't happen. When your argument inevitably breaks down, you revert to the first 3 quarters of stats, where JP threw 7 passes

I was quoting you on a post where you brought up statistics, which you responded to by referring me to your first post where you said statistics didn't matter. When I questioned you about this, you gave me the runaround only to quote stats again. I'm having a conversation, not continuously referring to your first post as though that's the end-all. I don't agree with it.

The delay of game call is always the QB's fault. You should always be aware of the clock...that's YOUR responsibility as the QB. When you see it ticking down to 0, you call a time out.

If you want to totally separate the first 3 quarters from the 4th quarter, be my guest. But that's not realistic.

JP sucked when it mattered...seriously, with all Roman numerals, ABCs, and 123s aside.

[yordad]

OK, now I'm questioning your ability to reason, along with your reading comprehension.

I've repeated said that the Bills were in it through end of the third quarter, which is the beginning of the 4th quarter. I felt we were officially out of it when JP fumbled on the first drive of the 4th quarter. My argument has always been consistent.

You seem to want to completely ignore the 4th quarter like it didn't happen. When your argument inevitably breaks down, you revert to the first 3 quarters of stats, where JP threw 7 passes

I was quoting you on a post where you brought up statistics, which you responded to by referring me to your first post where you said statistics didn't matter. When I questioned you about this, you gave me the runaround only to quote stats again. I'm having a conversation, not continuously referring to your first post as though that's the end-all. I don't agree with it.

The delay of game call is always the QB's fault. You should always be aware of the clock...that's YOUR responsibility as the QB. When you see it ticking down to 0, you call a time out.

If you want to totally separate the first 3 quarters from the 4th quarter, be my guest. But that's not realistic.

JP sucked when it mattered.I questioned if you read the first post, so you question my comprehension? I suggest you had a bit of a predisposition and you call me mentally challenged? I'm trying to keep it clean here.

Your questioning my reading comprehension? LOL, I opted to try and give you an outline to make what I am saying easier to follow.

You said........

We were in this game until the end of the 3rd quarter.
I didn't come up with a "I think I will just count til JP started looking bad" arbitrary time. These are your words.

I explained the sack too. Apparently putting those letters together in a paragraph was hard to follow(?).


I've repeated said that the Bills were in it through end of the third quarter, which is the beginning of the 4th quarter.So, the end of the third is the beginning of the fourth? Thanks for clarifying. I guess "end of the third" encompasses some of the 4th quarter too.

Yeah, that's consistent. NTM, I ain't all too sure what your argument is. I think I will try and sum it up. Correct me if I'm wrong....

"JP sucked in the forth quarter (which is actually part of the end of the third quarter) when the game was out of reach, therefor his first three solid quarters are irrelevant". :idunno:

[Typ0]

is part of the second quarter also part of the fourth? Or is the second quarter only part of the half time show?

[yordad]

is part of the second quarter also part of the fourth? Or is the second quarter only part of the half time show?LOL, I believe it would have to encompass part of the third. At least the first drive for each team.

The real question is "Does part of the first quarter in our next game still count toward the last one?". Because if they start really hot vs the Charges, they might go back to being undefeated.

A wise man once said, "It ain't over til its over, and the next quarter is over, too." In fact, I keep this exact fortune cookie in my hat. I read it when ever I have a down day.

[feldspar]

I questioned if you read the first post, so you question my comprehension? I suggest you had a bit of a predisposition and you call me mentally challenged? I'm trying to keep it clean here.

Your questioning my reading comprehension? LOL, I opted to try and give you an outline to make what I am saying easier to follow.

You said........
I didn't come up with a "I think I will just count til JP started looking bad" arbitrary time. These are your words.

I explained the sack too. Apparently putting those letters together in a paragraph was hard to follow(?).

So, the end of the third is the beginning of the fourth? Thanks for clarifying. I guess "end of the third" encompasses some of the 4th quarter too.

Yeah, that's consistent. NTM, I ain't all too sure what your argument is. I think I will try and sum it up. Correct me if I'm wrong....

"JP sucked in the forth quarter (which is actually part of the end of the third quarter) when the game was out of reach, therefor his first three solid quarters are irrelevant". :idunno:

I didn't call you mentally challenged; I questioned your reasoning ability and still do. If your reading comprehension is good, you are deliberately ignoring what I've said. You also have to take into account that I fundamentally disagree with you on this subject.

Since when is the end of the third quarter NOT the beginning of the 4th quarter? Do I somehow have to account for the commercial break?

You left me no other choice but to go where I have gone...saying that stats don't matter and then bringing up stats continuously...what would YOU say to that?

Your argument holds no water, and this conversation has degenerated into a *****-slap fest. I tried to have a grown-up conversation with you, but it didn't fly.

If you think that JP had "three sold quarters," I don't know what to tell ya. I'll keep the name calling to myself. Regardless of anything else, 7 passes through 3 quarters ain't exactly solid. A drive-killing delay of game call isn't good.

And the 4th quarter DID happen. It was just as much of the game as the first three quarters. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THE 4TH QUARTER FROM THE REST OF THE GAME OR EXCUSE JP'S PLAY DURING THE 4TH QUARTER.

[Meathead]

you know the numbers in these kinds of threads are skewed because many of us dont even bother

when the game still mattered jp was fine. yeah we saw some of the stuff late that weve come to pull our hair out to, but the team was crumbling around him way before he started taking his turn. before that he was one of the better players in the game

its just crazy to blame this on jp

[feldspar]

when the game still mattered jp was fine. yeah we saw some of the stuff late that weve come to pull our hair out to, but the team was crumbling around him way before he started taking his turn. before that he was one of the better players in the game

its just crazy to blame this on jp

What's crazy is to look at the way JP played and say it was "fine." I don't singularly blame him for the loss, but he didn't really help.

If you wanted to say that we should have thrown more passes earlier and left it at that, I'd have more respect for that opinion. If you wanted to say that 7 passes in 3 quarters is not a big enough sample to judge him by, I might leave you alone about that.

But to say that it's pretty much impossible to score 17 points in 15 minutes...that's ****ed up. The game still mattered in the 4th quarter.

I think that nobody should really be OK with the way JP played in this game. I really hope that JP isn't, and I really don't think that he is. I have nothing personally against the guy, but his performance was lacking yet again FOR WHATEVER REASON.

[Ingtar33]

you know... at the start of training camp, i wrote several posts about which quarterback i wanted starting for this team.

I said as a coach I'd want Edwards. why? Because he doesn't have anywhere near the negative plays JP has. JP in his career averaged something insane like 1 negative play (fumble, int, sack) for every 5 or 8 drop backs (i don't recall the actual number).

where Trent was more in a Payton Manning like 1 every 12 or 15 plays... in short... roughly half the negative plays per dropback.

to me as a coach it's a no brainer who you start.

[feldspar]

you know... at the start of training camp, i wrote several posts about which quarterback i wanted starting for this team.

I said as a coach I'd want Edwards. why? Because he doesn't have anywhere near the negative plays JP has. JP in his career averaged something insane like 1 negative play (fumble, int, sack) for every 5 or 8 drop backs (i don't recall the actual number).

where Trent was more in a Payton Manning like 1 every 12 or 15 plays... in short... roughly half the negative plays per dropback.

to me as a coach it's a no brainer who you start.

I can't imagine who would want JP starting for their team...

Kansas City maybe...give him a try over Kitna in Detroit...the Jets if Favre retires...maybe even Minnesota. Maybe he'll end up in Tampa Bay, where Jon Gruden will tear him a new one...

the thing is that these are the teams that will probably draft a QB high in next year's draft. JP MIGHT have a one-year window to show what he can do. If he doesn't produce there, he is most likely on the bench for the rest of his career. There's nothing wrong with that, though. Being on the bench still pays pretty well, and you really don't get hurt.

[JD]

Thread of the year.

JP is a ****ing tool.

An all around failure.

[JD]

I'd actually play Hamden over him.. he'll need the experience

[feldspar]

Thread of the year.

JP is a ****ing tool.

An all around failure.

Yeah, but JP isn't to be held accountable for how he performs in the 4th quarter.

It's ALWAYS somebody else's fault.

We've all heard all of the excuses before, and they are all too old. We should all know who he is by now. I predict that he will be a journeyman backup QB for a while, and then fade away. I'll go out on a limb and say that he will never be any team's franchise QB.

[trapezeus]

I'd actually play Hamden over him.. he'll need the experience

completely agree. hamden couldn't have done worse than 5 sacks, an INT, and several short drives. if he has a quick release, play him and cut losman.

[justasportsfan]

completely agree. hamden couldn't have done worse than 5 sacks, an INT, and several short drives. if he has a quick release, play him and cut losman.
:rofl:

[yordad]

Yeah, the next time TE gets injured lets send out a guy who has never threw an NFL regular season pass, and looked pretty bad against third stringers in preseason. Hamden for Pres!

[justasportsfan]

Trap thinks our coaches are stupid , just like typo.

[trapezeus]

Yeah, the next time TE gets injured lets send out a guy who has never threw an NFL regular season pass, and looked pretty bad against third stringers in preseason. Hamden for Pres!

he actually looked capable against third stringers and moved a preseason drive in methodic fashion. before you get angry about this, think back to how many people sited losman's success in the 2nd preseason game as reason he is a capable starter and a great back up.

Losman played about as poorly as a rookie would have. If the team likes hamdan and knows he's raw. they come into the game knowing, "we got to play better around this guy to give him a chance." If hamdan can manage a game and move drives and know when to throw it because someone is breathing on him, then he's a better choice.

When losman comes in, the players know, "no matter how good I play, this guy is going to screw it up. i know no matter how much time i give him in the pocket he will not throw it. I know if i run the intermediate route and am wide open, he won't throw it. We are going to lose with this sulking QB in our huddle." There is no denying this is how the team comes off when losman is in there.

I really don't think hamden comes in and has drives any worse than the 10 losman gave us.

[justasportsfan]

he actually looked capable against third stringers and moved a preseason drive in methodic fashion. before you get angry about this, think back to how many people sited losman's success in the 2nd preseason game as reason he is a capable starter and a great back up.

Losman played about as poorly as a rookie would have. If the team likes hamdan and knows he's raw. they come into the game knowing, "we got to play better around this guy to give him a chance." If hamdan can manage a game and move drives and know when to throw it because someone is breathing on him, then he's a better choice.

When losman comes in, the players know, "no matter how good I play, this guy is going to screw it up. i know no matter how much time i give him in the pocket he will not throw it. I know if i run the intermediate route and am wide open, he won't throw it. We are going to lose with this sulking QB in our huddle." There is no denying this is how the team comes off when losman is in there.

I really don't think hamden comes in and has drives any worse than the 10 losman gave us.
Unfortunately for you, the coaches disagree.you are however welcome to make assumptions about what the team/coaches think about the situation. You're good at it.

[trapezeus]

Unfortunately for you, the coaches disagree.you are however welcome to make assumptions about what the team/coaches think about the situation. You're good at it.

Thanks. i am good it. you on the other hand apparently take everything at face value and assume there is no layer of nuiance or complexity to issues. i'd love to be your broker.

[justasportsfan]

Thanks. i am good it. you on the other hand apparently take everything at face value and assume there is no layer of nuiance or complexity to issues. i'd love to be your broker.
you however keep pretending to know what they actually mean when they say what they say. :shakeno:

Lets go by their actions instead. AHa! JP is still on the team being paid more than Trent and is still the back up. OWNED!!!

[trapezeus]

you however keep pretending to know what they actually mean when they say what they say. :shakeno:

Lets go by their actions instead. AHa! JP is still on the team being paid more than Trent and is still the back up. OWNED!!!

nope, your still wrong. this isn't about what either of us know about what is happening inside one bills drive. the fact that you derive pleasure that the team is making the wrong decision by playing JP is bizarre.

I'm not claiming to be smarter than the coaches, but i also find it very hard for such bland statements that they make about him to be the "faith and commitment" thatyou think it is. They simplify the plays for him, we can all see he can't get rid of it fast enough. Therefore, there has to be other reasons which i've listed for you numerous times.

I realize you love JP as though he was your brother, or you are just bound to be contrarian because you like being that guy. but the truth is he isn't a good back up. you told us, he'd be a good back up. and i see his play on level with Hamdan. and i think the team could do better with hamdan for a game and lose by 24 points.

the arguement to keep JP was because we'd have a seemless transition. and on paper it would seem that way. but practically speaking, he'll never come in clean up a game unless you're spotting him a lead and the running game is going.

the last of you jp fans seem to like throwing super long once a game than having sustainable drives that chew up clock, demoralize the other team and gives us control of the game. That really eats away at any football credibility you think you may have.

[justasportsfan]

nope, your still wrong. this isn't about what either of us know about what is happening inside one bills drive. the fact that you derive pleasure that the team is making the wrong decision by playing JP is bizarre.

I'm not claiming to be smarter than the coaches, but i also find it very hard for such bland statements that they make about him to be the "faith and commitment" thatyou think it is. They simplify the plays for him, we can all see he can't get rid of it fast enough. Therefore, there has to be other reasons which i've listed for you numerous times.



the arguement to keep JP was because we'd have a seemless transition. and on paper it would seem that way. but practically speaking, he'll never come in clean up a game unless you're spotting him a lead and the running game is going.

the last of you jp fans seem to like throwing super long once a game than having sustainable drives that chew up clock, demoralize the other team and gives us control of the game. That really eats away at any football credibility you think you may have.


:rofl: The team is wrong unless what they are doing agrees with your opinion?

Their actions speak louder than their words and their words are more accurate than what you think they mean.







I realize you love JP as though he was your brother, or you are just bound to be contrarian because you like being that guy. but the truth is he isn't a good back up. you told us, he'd be a good back up. and i see his play on level with Hamdan. and i think the team could do better with hamdan for a game and lose by 24 points. here's proof of you pretending to know what I actually feel about JP. This post of yours is pure stupidity. I don't even own anything that's JP . I've admitted several times that I'm not sold on the guy except that I don't think he's as bad as you make him out to be.

... but then again, you know how I actually feel about the guy. You're getting desperate that you're actually starting to play MIND READER.

Should be interesting when you tell us what Marv actually means in his books.

I hope you never try to interpret the bible.

[trapezeus]

:rofl: The team is wrong unless what they are doing agrees with your opinion?

Their actions speak louder than their words and their words are more accurate than what you think they mean.






here's proof of you pretending to know what I actually feel about JP. This post of yours is pure stupidity. I don't even own anything that's JP . I've admitted several times that I'm not sold on the guy except that I don't think he's as bad as you make him out to be.

... but then again, you know how I actually feel about the guy. You're getting desperate that you're actually starting to play MIND READER.

Should be interesting when you tell us what Marv actually means in his books.

I hope you never try to interpret the bible.

i hope you don't interpret the bible. you'd take everything literally and assume none of it is metaphor.

and i guess you closed this case. you own nothing that's jp. ok. fantastic. The end result is that you find a need to defend him. your defense of him is on stats that don't actually show how poor of a QB he is. he isn't a good back up if he isn't coming in and running the show. the team was behind 14 points because the offense wasn't keeping up. we knew we potentially were going to have a shootout and jp's gun was shooting blanks for the milionth time.

When losman surfaces on a team next year, i'd be interested to see how their fans take to him on their message boards. and i'm going to be interested if you plan to defend him over on that message board as well.

[Mr. Pink]

It simply amazes me that we still have this pointless argument, even to this day.

John Paul Losman is not a starting caliber QB in the NFL. He's a guy who has all the natural god given talent in the world but has no brain to speak of. He is a guy who will come into a game, throw one of the most beautiful deep balls in the league, and then go back under his rock for the rest of the game. He holds on to the ball too long, he doesn't go through all his reads, he turns the ball over, takes too many sacks, and clearly still has nightmares of Troy Vincent because he refuses to run the rock when the play breaks down.

He is a GREAT backup QB, probably one of only five guys in the NFL I'd want backing up my starting QB. He's a good gap filler for a few quarters or even a game or two, but he is not a starter at the NFL level, and if he is it's because someone is hurt and he's the only option available. Good guy, nice guy, extremely gifted, not an NFL QB.

How is he a great backup if he's not an NFL QB?

How do you have confidence in him for a game or two when even you admit, he makes a play or two then goes under a rock the rest of the day? Hell how do you have confidence in him for more than a quarter with that track record?

Losman has one skill - arm strength. His one strength though is nullified completely by his many weaknesses. And those weaknesses will end his NFL career.

[Mr. Pink]

I've repeated said that the Bills were in it through end of the third quarter, which is the beginning of the 4th quarter. I felt we were officially out of it when JP fumbled on the first drive of the 4th quarter. My argument has always been consistent.
.

I gotta give you some credit here, I and many other Bills fans thought we were out of it after the third play of the game.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd actually play Hamden over him.. he'll need the experience


and it's not like he'll do any worse.

[yordad]

When losman comes in, the players know, "no matter how good I play, this guy is going to screw it up. i know no matter how much time i give him in the pocket he will not throw it. I know if i run the intermediate route and am wide open, he won't throw it. We are going to lose with this sulking QB in our huddle." There is no denying this is how the team comes off when losman is in there.
So, the players gave up 2 plays into the game? That explains so much. ;)

Are you sure they didn't give up prior to that? I don't know if you know, but Trent got nailed on the first play.

[trapezeus]

So, the players gave up 2 plays into the game? That explains so much. ;)

Are you sure they didn't give up prior to that? I don't know if you know, but Trent got nailed on the first play.

i think when trent doesn't get up, they are all thinking, "crap." and i think when they fumble 2 plays later they say, "here we go again." And when the cards score they know, "there is no comebacks with Losman at the helm."

As awesome as the 87 yard play was to the average fan, i think anyone who is on the team or follows it as closely as we all do knew, "we really can't expect that play to pay off every drive and we know he can't be consistent. How do they catch up?"

And FYI, Trent got nailed on the 3rd play.