My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

**trapezeus** · 10-09-2008, 09:37 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

i agree with you and disagree with you.

agree on, the bills could use him and use ellison as a ST and capable backup.

disagree on, teaching him a lesson. if the bills get players to not try this crap of taking a surgery that could have been done at the beginning of OTA's and instead miss the season so they can be paid, fantastic. that really was quite a blow to have your lb tell you he's having a surgery done that the team docs don't agree with or more accurately find it to be a surgery that's needed right now. the team isn't running a day spa. the players have to put a commitment to the team.

jury is out on, crowell wouldn't have been healthy to play in AR anyways. so ellison would have been a starter in that game anyways. if the bills can't correct the underneath dump off play and can't play the run game better, then i'll probably say we should have kept crowell for the year he had left. but if the bills bounce back and play better, then losing crowell wasn't a big deal and hopefully cuts other players from trying the same thing.

Good post by the way.

**Jan Reimers** · 10-09-2008, 09:40 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

I think the Bills have proven on more than one occasion that they won't let the clowns run the circus.

**Dr. Lecter** · 10-09-2008, 09:51 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

I tend to agree Pat, but the last thing I read was that Crowell did have extensive surgery. I'll try to find that again.

**patmoran2006** · 10-09-2008, 10:05 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

Originally posted by Jan Reimers

I think the Bills have proven on more than one occasion that they won't let the clowns run the circus.

The only clown is Ellison. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a starting OLB in the NFL more irrelevant.. Five games running, and he hasn’t gotten his hands on a quarterback, a RB behind the line, or even a pass. .he’s credited for zero passes defended.

He sucks.. Not only does he sucks. He changes the whole complexion of the defense.

I don’t care what you or anyone says.. It was a personal move, and it was a BAD football move. Crowell according to all injury reports would be out 4-6 weeks. That would put him back on the field vs the Chargers Sunday, or at Miami the next week at the latest.

People love to turn on “bad apples” yet forget this is a guy who was 8^th in the NFL with 126 tackles last year, had two sacks, picked off a pass and forced a fumble. Ellision has done and will likely continue to do what he’s done all season long--- absolutely nothing.

To even begin to compare the two is laughable. I think Crowell deciding to opt for the procedure days before the season starts instead of early in camp was a horrible choice too, but by IR’ing him the Bills punished not only him (not really because he still gets paid) but the entire football team.

I’m happy with the Bills right now, but it was a dumb move, a move made for personal reasons.

now.. If it turns out he had extensive surgery, which I have not heard, and he'd be out for most the season.. Then that's another story. But if the injury was a 4-6 week deal like ALL reports have said, and we could've had him for the final 10-11 games as a major (let me say major again) upgrade over Ellison, then that's just horrible management.

**Pinkerton Security** · 10-09-2008, 10:06 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

Originally posted by Dr.Lecter

I tend to agree Pat, but the last thing I read was that Crowell did have extensive surgery. I'll try to find that again.

He had his knee scoped if I'm not mistaken. And I recall reading somewhere that another player had the same procedure done and was expected to be out no more than 6 weeks or so.

**Dr. Lecter** · 10-09-2008, 10:11 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

From Mark Gaughan's live chat yesterday:

[Comment From Aaron]
Wait a minute, the Bills cut ties with Crowell? When and why did that happen?

1:13	He's on IR. They have not cut him, and because his surgery was extensive, he'll get paid for the full year, I expect. I think he'll stay on IR the whole year. (If the team determined he was ready to play, it could cut him.)

Just a moment...

http://buffalonews.typepad.com/billboard/2008/10/chat-with-mark.html

**patmoran2006** · 10-09-2008, 10:13 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

I'd like to see an actual report somewhere stating his surgery was extensive.

Everything I've heard or read is it was a 6 week (max) injury.

**patmoran2006** · 10-09-2008, 10:15 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

here is a follow-up question, semi-related that I don't know the answer to, becuase I dont ever recall it happen.

HYPOTHETICALLY. Say Crowell was "ready" to play next week. If we deeemd him ready to play, we could cut him. Lets say we did that. He didnt find an offer worth signing.

COULD the Bills then resign him?

NOTE-- I'm NOT saying this will happen.. In fact, I know it wont.. Forget its even Crowell. IM talking about any player. Can a team even do that if it and the player choose to do so?

**Dr. Lecter** · 10-09-2008, 10:17 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

No. This was discussed somewhere.

They could have reached an injury settlement and re-signed him after a period of time, but that time has come and gone.

**jamze132** · 10-09-2008, 10:29 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

Originally posted by patmoran2006

Despite the debacle in Arizona, it would be ridiculous for anybody to not be pleased with this team right now. 4-1 going into the bye? Who wouldn’t take that? This football team is a good one. If a few things fall into place, there is no reason they can’t contend for the AFC Title THIS year. New England lost its best player. Indy looks old. San Diego is struggling big time. Tennessee looks great now but has no track record either. The rest of the teams are in the same boat as the Bills.

Yet, I have one beef with this organization. It’s not Jason Peters. Granted, I think the OL would be a lot better if he was playing up to par, and probably would be if he hadn’t missed all of camp, but that falls on Peters just as much, if not more.

No, my one black eye with this organization right now is for them putting Angelo Crowell on IR days before the season started. We don’t need to rehash the details again; Crowell opted to have a procedure done just days before the opener that would force him out for 4-6 weeks. The Bills decided to end his season, and Bills career, by placing him on IR.

It wasn’t a football move, it was a personal move, and now as a result this team isn’t as good as it could be.

Keith Ellison has started this year.. Here is his numbers this year. 5 games, 12 tackles. ZERO sacks. ZERO interceptions.. ZERO quarterback pressures. ZERO forced fumbles. ZERO fumble recoveries. ZERO tackles for losses.

It goes without saying; he’s freegin TERRIBLE. Oh, and Blake Costanza, has two special teams tackles this year.

Meanwhile, by all reports from before and now, Crowell would be in the Bills starting lineup, likely by next week’s game against San Diego. If they don’t “IR” him, they have him for the last 10-11 games.

I HATE what the Bills did here. Ya, they taught Crowell a “lesson”. He probably losses millions now when he becomes a free agent next year.

Who cares! He was gone after this year anyway. Get the most you can from him now. The Bills are a better defense, a far better defense WITH him than without him. But our FO made it personal, and it was a terrible move for the team.

The Bills are 4-1 with Ellison in the lineup. The Bills would be 4-1 with Crowell in the lineup. I don't see the overall difference.

**Oaf** · 10-09-2008, 10:42 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

If we would just start DiG instead, it wouldn't be such a big deal IMO.

**Crisis** · 10-09-2008, 11:05 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

I thought crowell was gonna have some minor work (few weeks like pat said) but when he got placed on IR decided he'd get more done?

**trapezeus** · 10-09-2008, 11:18 AM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

Originally posted by patmoran2006

People love to turn on “bad apples” yet forget this is a guy who was 8^th in the NFL with 126 tackles last year, had two sacks, picked off a pass and forced a fumble.

Ellison is 2 sacks off and one int behind and one fumble behind Crowell with 11 games to go. on the surface of the stat, Crowell isn't that big of a deal.

do you have a breakdown of the 126 tackles? Not super extensive, but just how many have gone for losses? I ask only because you said earlier that ellison hasn't gotten to rb behind the LOS. so of his 9 tackles this year (extrapolated to 31 tackles for the season based on current trends), none were negative plays for the opposing team. if crowelll is making a lot of tackles behind the line of scrimmage then his tackles are great. if he is making a lot of tackles cause he's poor in coverage and teams throw his way, that's bad.

one reason i'm not super high on crowell is that he played last year and they needed a lot of secondary support on tackles. some of that is a function of poor rushing, but the LB crew had it tough last year.

**DynaPaul** · 10-09-2008, 03:55 PM

Re: My ONLY Real Beef With the Bills

Originally posted by Oaf

If we would just start DiG instead, it wouldn't be such a big deal IMO.

Yeah seriously. I was just thinking why couldn't we swap out Ellison for DiGiorgio?