McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

[OpIv37]

1. McCargo is no big loss. At first I was disappointed in him, he seemed to come on a little bit last year, then this year he disappointed again. It was a poor choice to trade up for him, but at least the Bills got something in return for him while he still had a tiny bit of value.

2. I am concerned about lack of depth at DT. Currently, Stroud, Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams are the only active DT's on our roster, plus Copeland Bryan lines up at DT sometimes. That's not enough to run the rotation or cover injuries.

3. We passed on Gonzales for a 3rd round pick? That's insane. Royal is mediocre at best and this organization has lacked a quality TE since Metzalaars. I thought the whole point of cash to cap was to have money available to make moves like this when they come available. I'm starting to think it's just a way for Ralph to save money. This organization is always planning for a future that never actually arrives. We have a good record but clearly have some flaws, and Gonzales would have been an instant solution to one of those flaws.

4. Compare the Gonzales situation with the Cowboys. The Cowboys are 4-2 and having a good year (for the most part). Yet, Jerry Jones was not afraid to go out and get an instant upgrade to his team. I hate Jerry Jones, but the man knows how to run a football team. The Cowboys are better on the field, and I suspect their reward for it will be playing football in January while the Bills are playing golf.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

So let me get this straight.

We were 4-1 one week ago, with no Gonzales. Most of us and even you I think were optimistic about the team being on the right track, with a potential playoff run this season.

We are still 4-1 today, not having traded for a guy we never had. And suddenly we'll be playing golf in January and have no hopes for the postseason?

What exactly changed other than our minds?

[OpIv37]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

So let me get this straight.

We were 4-1 one week ago, with no Gonzales. Most of us and even you I think were optimistic about the team being on the right track, with a potential playoff run this season.

We are still 4-1 today, not having traded for a guy we never had. And suddenly we'll be playing golf in January and have no hopes for the postseason?

What exactly changed other than our minds?

I never thought this team was going to make the playoffs. Even though we were winning, we were playing like **** against crappy teams.

Even if the Bills do somehow squeak into the playoffs, Dallas will go deeper. And the reason is moves like this.

[patmoran2006]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

1. McCargo is no big loss. At first I was disappointed in him, he seemed to come on a little bit last year, then this year he disappointed again. It was a poor choice to trade up for him, but at least the Bills got something in return for him while he still had a tiny bit of value.
I will hold off commenting until I see what we got for him in return. If its a good pick, then its the right move. If it was a late pick, then it was worth holding on to him in CASE we get hit with injuries, even if it meant dumping him for nothing at the end of the season.

2. I am concerned about lack of depth at DT. Currently, Stroud, Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams are the only active DT's on our roster, plus Copeland Bryan lines up at DT sometimes. That's not enough to run the rotation or cover injuries.
This leads to point one. i want to see what we got for him.. WE're a playoff contender and we're trading away a guy who may be needed before season's end for an "undisclosed" draft pick? That pick better not be a 5th or 6th rounder.

3. We passed on Gonzales for a 3rd round pick? That's insane. Royal is mediocre at best and this organization has lacked a quality TE since Metzalaars. I thought the whole point of cash to cap was to have money available to make moves like this when they come available. I'm starting to think it's just a way for Ralph to save money. This organization is always planning for a future that never actually arrives. We have a good record but clearly have some flaws, and Gonzales would have been an instant solution to one of those flaws.
IMO.. This was the biggest no-brainer move to me at least, since we targeted Takeo Spikes via FA. Hes' a strengh, our tight ends are a major weakness. It doesnt take an expert to figure that out. A 2nd rounder may have been too high, but a third rounder? A third rounder that could end up being a very late one to boot?

4. Compare the Gonzales situation with the Cowboys. The Cowboys are 4-2 and having a good year (for the most part). Yet, Jerry Jones was not afraid to go out and get an instant upgrade to his team. I hate Jerry Jones, but the man knows how to run a football team. The Cowboys are better on the field, and I suspect their reward for it will be playing football in January while the Bills are playing golf.
Dallas gave up TOO much for Williams. If they win it all this year it was worth it. If they dont, then it was a terrible trade.

[Philagape]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

The issue is not how we're doing during the regular season. This move would have been to increase our chances during the playoffs.
With so many other strong teams having questions, it's fathomable that the Bills have a shot at going to a Super Bowl within the next two seasons, and adding a piece would be to further that goal.
It's all about the Super Bowl.

[Oaf]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

If we would have a 3rd rounder for a 4th, swapping McCargo for Gonzo, I may have died in ecstasy. Why, just why couldn't we have done that?

[patmoran2006]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

So let me get this straight.

We were 4-1 one week ago, with no Gonzales. Most of us and even you I think were optimistic about the team being on the right track, with a potential playoff run this season.

We are still 4-1 today, not having traded for a guy we never had. And suddenly we'll be playing golf in January and have no hopes for the postseason?

What exactly changed other than our minds?

We're still a good team.
I just think we'd be better with Gonzo than we already were, we have tough divisional games to come still.

If we offered a third and it got turned down, oh well.. If we didnt, I think it was a puss move by the FO

[OpIv37]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

Dallas gave up TOO much for Williams. If they win it all this year it was worth it. If they dont, then it was a terrible trade.

They have 2-3 years.Typically it takes several years for a draft class to develop, with the exception of a few positions like RB. 2-3 years from now is when they'll feel the sting of trading away half their draft, and how well the Cowboys do between now and then will determine if this move was worthwhile.

This is what bothers me about the Bills organization. We've been rebuilding since 2001. The current regime has been rebuilding since 2006. And we're STILL hoarding draft picks and building for the future. When the hell is that future going to arrive? The Cowboys are trying to win NOW. I'm glad the Bills didn't trade away half their draft, but we got a 4th for McCargo. The end result would be that we lose a 3rd and pick up a 4th. That's hardly mortgaging the future. Passing on Gonzo was just plain dumb.

[PECKERWOOD]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

So let me get this straight.

We were 4-1 one week ago, with no Gonzales. Most of us and even you I think were optimistic about the team being on the right track, with a potential playoff run this season.

We are still 4-1 today, not having traded for a guy we never had. And suddenly we'll be playing golf in January and have no hopes for the postseason?

What exactly changed other than our minds?

BINGO

Glad somebody gets it.

[Philagape]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

They have 2-3 years.Typically it takes several years for a draft class to develop, with the exception of a few positions like RB. 2-3 years from now is when they'll feel the sting of trading away half their draft, and how well the Cowboys do between now and then will determine if this move was worthwhile.

This is what bothers me about the Bills organization. We've been rebuilding since 2001. The current regime has been rebuilding since 2006. And we're STILL hoarding draft picks and building for the future. When the hell is that future going to arrive? The Cowboys are trying to win NOW. I'm glad the Bills didn't trade away half their draft, but we got a 4th for McCargo. The end result would be that we lose a 3rd and pick up a 4th. That's hardly mortgaging the future. Passing on Gonzo was just plain dumb.

I said it during the Sabres debates ... if you're always building for the future, it will never get here. When your shot at a championship is in the present, then the present should be the top priority.

[OpIv37]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

BINGO

Glad somebody gets it.

nobody changed their mind, at least not me. I have never been convinced that this team can make the playoffs.

[jmb1099]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

1. McCargo is no big loss. At first I was disappointed in him, he seemed to come on a little bit last year, then this year he disappointed again. It was a poor choice to trade up for him, but at least the Bills got something in return for him while he still had a tiny bit of value.

2. I am concerned about lack of depth at DT. Currently, Stroud, Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams are the only active DT's on our roster, plus Copeland Bryan lines up at DT sometimes. That's not enough to run the rotation or cover injuries.

3. We passed on Gonzales for a 3rd round pick? That's insane. Royal is mediocre at best and this organization has lacked a quality TE since Metzalaars. I thought the whole point of cash to cap was to have money available to make moves like this when they come available. I'm starting to think it's just a way for Ralph to save money. This organization is always planning for a future that never actually arrives. We have a good record but clearly have some flaws, and Gonzales would have been an instant solution to one of those flaws.

4. Compare the Gonzales situation with the Cowboys. The Cowboys are 4-2 and having a good year (for the most part). Yet, Jerry Jones was not afraid to go out and get an instant upgrade to his team. I hate Jerry Jones, but the man knows how to run a football team. The Cowboys are better on the field, and I suspect their reward for it will be playing football in January while the Bills are playing golf.

Who might be throwing the ball to Roy Williams for the next four weeks?

Aside from that, I hear what you're saying, but you're drawing conclusions in your anger and frustration that don't even exist.
Ralph has spent plenty of money in the past few weeks so I'm not sure where you're coming from there.
What is most interesting to me is that SanFran was looking for Gonz... what's up with Vernon Davis?
For the record I had hoped we signed him but not for a kings ransom. Looks like every other team in the running thought the same.

[TrEd FTW]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

Jerry Jones is a genius; that's why the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in a dozen years.

Three picks, including a first and a third, for Roy Williams is a joke of a trade.

[OpIv37]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

Who might be throwing the ball to Roy Williams for the next four weeks?

Aside from that, I hear what you're saying, but you're drawing conclusions in your anger and frustration that don't even exist.
Ralph has spent plenty of money in the past few weeks so I'm not sure where you're coming from there.

True, Ralph has not been cheap lately. We got Stroud, we extended Evans, we got Mitchell, etc.

However, the advantage of cash to cap is that there is money and cap room available to make moves like this when the opportunities present themselves. The only way cash to cap will work is if we build as much as possible through the draft then use the cap room on FA's to fill in the pieces and go for broke to make a serious run for a year or two. Now, we're not quite ready to make a serious run, but Gonzales also isn't so expensive that it would have hosed the whole cash to cap strategy.

I guess I just don't see the point of limiting big contracts and vet FA moves if we still pass when these opportunities come up.

[OpIv37]

Re: McCargo, Gonzales and Roy Williams

Jerry Jones is a genius; that's why the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in a dozen years.

Three picks, including a first and a third, for Roy Williams is a joke of a trade.

we haven't won one in a dozen years either or even been IN the playoffs in 10. Oh, and how many Super Bowls does Jones have? I believe it's 4 to our ZERO.

Like it or not, the Cowboys are run much better than the Bills and the results on the field show it.