Reality check...Lynch is not that great.

[HHURRICANE]

The guy is slow hitting holes. Fred Jackson hits the holes so much faster. I think this is going to be a problem long term.

People thought this was nuts a few weeks ago but Jackson needs to start and Lynch needs to come in and pound the ball later on.

[Forward_Lateral]

Here we go. The Sky is falling. Everyone on the team sucks and is over rated. Trent is JP Jr. Lynch stinks. The coaches are pathetic.

Why do some of you even watch on Sundays?

[HHURRICANE]

Here we go. The Sky is falling. Everyone on the team sucks and is over rated. Trent is JP Jr. Lynch stinks. The coaches are pathetic.

Why do some of you even watch on Sundays?

I don't think Lynch sucks but are you going to argue that he isn't slow to hit holes?

[psubills62]

I think you picked a bad time to rail on Lynch. He averaged 4.7 ypc in that game against a pretty darn good run D.

[yordad]

Um, Lynch is a stud. You are wrong.

[Luisito23]

Lynch has all the moves, and heart that it takes to be an elite back, sadly though his vision for hitting holes is horrible, mix that with this terrible line and you have nothing but problems...

[Forward_Lateral]

I don't think Lynch sucks but are you going to argue that he isn't slow to hit holes?

If you think he's slow hitting holes, you either haven't watched a Bills game in the past season and a half, or you have no idea what you are watching.

So, yes, I'm going to argue it.

[trapezeus]

Lynch thrives on contact. He isn't as squirmy as Jackson is. And until the OL starts openning bigger holes in the middle or Turk admits that his pulling Guard outside runs work better, Lynch will struggle to get his 3 yards a carry and Jackson will be a little more shifty.

I still like lynch and expect him to continue to do well. They gave up on the run in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Lynch continues to run well late in the game when we are trying to ice it. i'd love to see him get into that groove early. it's going to happen at some point.

[EDS]

I agree. Lynch has the talent to be a top running back but there are definitely things he needs to work in order to realize his potential.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I just don't get this setiment.

How can someone watch the games and say that Lynch isn't very good??? I don't agree he is slow to hit holes AT ALL.

This just seems like a thread designed to rile people up.

[Forward_Lateral]

I just don't get this setiment.

How can someone watch the games and say that Lynch isn't very good??? I don't agree he is slow to hit holes AT ALL.

This just seems like a thread designed to rile people up.

That's what trolls do. They stir up crap just to get a reaction.

[blackonyx89]

The guy is slow hitting holes. Fred Jackson hits the holes so much faster. I think this is going to be a problem long term.

People thought this was nuts a few weeks ago but Jackson needs to start and Lynch needs to come in and pound the ball later on.

Really? I don't have a problem with BM (Beast Mode),he just have a crappy line!

[HHURRICANE]

Um, Lynch is a stud. You are wrong.

Okay, no 100 yard games. He's ranked 18th in the league. He has a terrible YPC, but we'll keep telling ourselevs this.

[HHURRICANE]

I just don't get this setiment.

How can someone watch the games and say that Lynch isn't very good??? I don't agree he is slow to hit holes AT ALL.

This just seems like a thread designed to rile people up.

This is such BS.

NO 100 yard games!!!! None this year. Explain that.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is such BS.

NO 100 yard games!!!! None this year. Explain that.
This can EASILY be explained by the fact that they do not give him enough carries. They use Jackson almost equally. I don't necessarily have a problem with this but it certainly does not let Lynch get into a groove and pound it out and wear down the D.

[OpIv37]

This is such BS.

NO 100 yard games!!!! None this year. Explain that.

**** OL (for run blocking) and splitting time between two backs.

Lynch averaged 4.7 YPC yesterday, but only got 13 carries. In order to get 100 yards on 13 carries, he'd have to average 7.7 YPC. Those are Madden numbers, not real numbers.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is such BS.

NO 100 yard games!!!! None this year. Explain that.
Plus this has nothing to do with the argument you were making.... Slow to the hole.

[Forward_Lateral]

This is such BS.

NO 100 yard games!!!! None this year. Explain that.

HOw many explanations do you want?

1.) the run blocking has been mediocre, at best up until yesterday
2.) the coaches abandon the run at the first sign of trouble
3.) this team is clearly a pass-first team right now
4.) Lynch is getting 15-20 carries a game, it's tough to get 100 yard with so few carries.

[THATHURMANATOR]

**** OL (for run blocking) and splitting time between two backs.

Lynch averaged 4.7 YPC yesterday, but only got 13 carries. In order to get 100 yards on 13 carries, he'd have to average 7.7 YPC. Those are Madden numbers, not real numbers.
Exactly.

Guys enough with this ******ed thread. Lynch/Jackson were the least of our worries from yesterday.

[CUHATIN]

LMAO!!!!!! How can anyone say Lynch isnt that good?? Do you watch football??

[HHURRICANE]

Plus this has nothing to do with the argument you were making.... Slow to the hole.

Re-watch the games. Jackson hits the holes way faster. This isn't even debatable.

[HHURRICANE]

HOw many explanations do you want?

1.) the run blocking has been mediocre, at best up until yesterday
2.) the coaches abandon the run at the first sign of trouble
3.) this team is clearly a pass-first team right now
4.) Lynch is getting 15-20 carries a game, it's tough to get 100 yard with so few carries.

This looks like the Willis McGahee argument from 2005.

[Forward_Lateral]

**** OL (for run blocking) and splitting time between two backs.

Lynch averaged 4.7 YPC yesterday, but only got 13 carries. In order to get 100 yards on 13 carries, he'd have to average 7.7 YPC. Those are Madden numbers, not real numbers.

Thank you. Even the ultimate pessimist has some football knowledge. (Sorry Opi, I had to take a jab).

Expectations around here are borderline ******ed sometimes. Lynch has to avg 5 ypc and get 100 yards every game to be an effective back.

It's funny how quickly some forget his effectiveness in the passing game, or how he turned a 2 yard loss into a touchdown.

How many times did he make the first man miss on 3rd down, and pick up the first? At least a couple, not counting the TD.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Re-watch the games. Jackson hits the holes way faster. This isn't even debatable.
Does that mean Lynch is slow to the hole though? NO

Damn you man..

[THATHURMANATOR]

This looks like the Willis McGahee argument from 2005.
If you can't see the difference between Willis and Marshawn I don't know what to tell you.

[HHURRICANE]

Lynch's longest run this year was 22 yards. Not exactly impressive.

[Ebenezer]

Okay, no 100 yard games. He's ranked 18th in the league. He has a terrible YPC, but we'll keep telling ourselevs this.
Emmitt Smith wasn't one of the top 10 backs to ever play the game...he ran behind what was possibly the best OL ever. ML has the opposite problem. This line is terrible at run blocking.

[HHURRICANE]

Thank you. Even the ultimate pessimist has some football knowledge. (Sorry Opi, I had to take a jab).

Expectations around here are borderline ******ed sometimes. Lynch has to avg 5 ypc and get 100 yards every game to be an effective back.

It's funny how quickly some forget his effectiveness in the passing game, or how he turned a 2 yard loss into a touchdown.

How many times did he make the first man miss on 3rd down, and pick up the first? At least a couple, not counting the TD.

Has Lynch had a dominant game this year?

[yordad]

This is such BS.

NO 100 yard games!!!! None this year. Explain that.OK. He has to, and has been, break three tackles just to get back to the LOS. Kind of plain as day too. Where ya been?

[HHURRICANE]

Lynch has yet to dominate or even come close to dominating a game. Great backs do that.

[Ebenezer]

Has Lynch had a dominant game this year?
Has the OL had a dominant run blocking game this year? If Jackson is so much better than why hasn't he broken one for more than 40 yards...it's the line.

[Ebenezer]

Lynch has yet to dominate or even come close to dominating a game. Great backs do that.
Correct. I forgot, none of the great backs ever had an OL blocking for them. :rolleyes:

[yordad]

Re-watch the games. Jackson hits the holes way faster. This isn't even debatable.Yeah, those runs on the goal line were like lightning.

[HHURRICANE]

Correct. I forgot, none of the great backs ever had an OL blocking for them. :rolleyes:

Yeah, JP wasn't getting enough time to throw the ball. Same argument.

Why does Fred Jackson run better behind the same line?

[Ebenezer]

Yeah, those runs on the goal line were like lightning.
didn't he trip over the LOS on one of them?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah, JP wasn't getting enough time to throw the ball. Same argument.

Why does Fred Jackson run better behind the same line?
Did Fred Jackson really fair any better than Lynch though? They had a similar amount of carries. Not meant to knock Jackson because I like him a lot.

[Ebenezer]

Yeah, JP wasn't getting enough time to throw the ball. Same argument.

Why does Fred Jackson run better behind the same line?
Really? Better? Come on.

Fred Jackson's longest run is only...guess what...22 yards also. His average is also a non-significant 0.5 yards a carrier greater than Lynch's. So, after two Lynch runs and an incomplete pass instead of 4th and 3 and a punt the Bills would have two Jackson runs, an incomplete pass, a 4th and 2 and a punt. Put the shovel down.

[hydro]

Plain and simple. If we take and put in Jackson for what was our only TD of the day I am convinced he wouldn't have scored. Lynch was great on that TD yesterday and I don't believe Jackson would have came out with the same result.

[airdog32]

you are crazy if Jackson carries the load he will get hurt! Lynch is a long term back who can carry the ball 300+ carries a year he does not get tackled easily he does not fumble! We are watching a possible future HOF early in his career on a good young team! You will be greatful to have Lynch come december and playoff time when playing D and running is most important!!!! So don't get your panties in a bunch because he does not get 100+ every game! Believe in now or go root for the Steelers!!!!

[TacklingDummy]

The guy is slow hitting holes. Fred Jackson hits the holes so much faster. I think this is going to be a problem long term.

People thought this was nuts a few weeks ago but Jackson needs to start and Lynch needs to come in and pound the ball later on.

Jackson does need to start and Lynch can come in as the change of pace back.

Jackson is the overall better running back. Quicker, field vision, blocker, reciever. Lynch is the better power runner.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Jackson does need to start and Lynch can come in as the change of pace back.

Jackson is the overall better running back. Quicker, field vision, blocker, reciever. Lynch is the better power runner.
This makes no sense to me though.

Lynch is the power back. He wears down the Defense.

Jackson is the shifty speed back. He comes in when the d is worn down.

Why would you switch that up?

[TacklingDummy]

If the run blocking was improved for Lynch wouldn't it be safe to say that the run blocking would also be improved for Jackson, making him even that much better?

[TacklingDummy]

This makes no sense to me though.

Lynch is the power back. He wears down the Defense.

Jackson is the shifty speed back. He comes in when the d is worn down.

Why would you switch that up?

Because it would make Lynch more effective. The D would be tired from chasing Jackson all over the place. Then Lynch comes in and runs over them.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Because it would make Lynch more effective. The D would be tired from chasing Jackson all over the place. Then Lynch comes in and runs over them.
I don't believe they would be chasing Jackson all over the place. Jackson is a straight ahead runner. He is fast but not one that seems to be juking defensive players all over the place.

[Philagape]

Lynch is not the problem. The o-line is pathetic.

Jackson's quickness is WAY more offset by Lynch's power. Lynch is the more complete back.

Jackson usually has more room to run because you seem him more on passing downs. When Lynch is in on first and second down, the D keys on him, as they should because the Bills still only have one receiver that anyone needs to be concerned about. And the line is not up the the task. Lynch has nowhere to go.

[Pinkerton Security]

Because it would make Lynch more effective. The D would be tired from chasing Jackson all over the place. Then Lynch comes in and runs over them.

And it could also be argued that if Marshawn ran more, it would tire down the D from getting beaten on, and Jackson could come in a bust one.

Its either Jackson runs around and tires them out, or Lynch beats their heads in. PLUS, its not like Jackson is Barry Sanders or even Reggie bush out there, hes not that much quicker than marshawn.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lynch is not the problem. The o-line is pathetic.

Jackson's quickness is WAY more offset by Lynch's power. Lynch is the more complete back.

Jackson usually has more room to run because you seem him more on passing downs. When Lynch is in on first and second down, the D keys on him, as they should because the Bills still only have one receiver that anyone needs to be concerned about. And the line is not up the the task. Lynch has nowhere to go.
More great points.

[TacklingDummy]

And it could also be argued that if Marshawn ran more, it would tire down the D from getting beaten on, and Jackson could come in a bust one.



True. It's a good problem to have.

[TacklingDummy]

Jackson's quickness is WAY more offset by Lynch's power. Lynch is the more complete back. Complete as in how? IMO, Jackson is the more complete back. Pass receiving, Pass blocking, field vision, quickness.

Does anyone know who actually is faster?

[Jan Reimers]

We'll never know how good Lynch is, or could be, until he gets some blocking.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Complete as in how? IMO, Jackson is the more complete back. Pass receiving, Pass blocking, field vision, quickness.

Does anyone know who actually is faster?
Complete as in Power, Agililty, pass catching, elusiveness.

Jackson is straight ahead speed and very good receiving.

Lynch has more power, makes more people miss, is also a good receiver.

There you go with the explanation.

[TacklingDummy]

Lynch has more power, makes more people miss, is also a good receiver.

There you go with the explanation.

Except for that screen pass yesterday. :puke:

Thanks for the explanation. Jackson still is the better overall back.

If the Bills o-line blocked better, Jackson would be a star in this league.

[Historian]

I want Lynch wearing the opposing defense down.

Then I counterpunch with Jackson.

[Mr. Pink]

I've said he seems a split second hesitant in getting to the hole, doesn't seem to always know where the hole is, doesn't see the cutback lane consistently and doesn't always follow his blockers.

You can have all the talent in the world and Lynch has a ton of it BUT when you don't do the little things it holds you back from getting to that elite level.

Right now Lynch is somewhere in the middle of the pack amongst his peers.

And to be honest, outside of attitude, I don't know if he's an improvement on the field over McGahee.

[Oaf]

If the coaches don't believe that Lynch can gain 5 goalline yards in 4 tries even with the line we have, they deserve to be fired.

[Mahdi]

The guy is slow hitting holes. Fred Jackson hits the holes so much faster. I think this is going to be a problem long term.

People thought this was nuts a few weeks ago but Jackson needs to start and Lynch needs to come in and pound the ball later on.
Lynch - 13 car, 61 yards

Jackson 10 car, 41 yards


Sorry but Lynch hits the hole just fine. And more than that he never goes down on first contact and on top of that he turns what should be 1 and 2 yard runs into 4 and 5 on his own. The OL is weak and thats all there is to it.


If Lynch was running behind most other OL in the league he would be the leading rusher in the NFL.

The man has the scariest stiff arm in the league. Sorry but as good as Jackson is as a #2 Lynch has so much more.

[shelby]

Can we all recognize that this is Lynch's second pro season?

Does he have learning to do? Sure.

Let's improve our O line in the offseason, so he gets some blocking, and then see what the kid can do.

All respect for Fred Jackson, he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. i like them both, but i have to agree that Lynch is the power back.

[NJFINSFAN1]

I could not understand why you didn't give Lynch the ball more, Feguson was hurt and not 100% and you guys did not try and exploit that, and in the first half and the first drive in the second half you were getting big chunks on the ground, than you stopped running.

[Jan Reimers]

Lynch runs with as much determination as any back I have ever seen in the NFL, and I go back before Jim Brown. I don't know how good he might become, but he fights for every inch of turf and just refuses to go down without a mighty struggle.

[shelby]

I could not understand why you didn't give Lynch the ball more, Feguson was hurt and not 100% and you guys did not try and exploit that, and in the first half and the first drive in the second half you were getting big chunks on the ground, than you stopped running.
i'm wondering the same thing. The outcome may have been different if we had stuck with the run.

[EDS]

Can we all recognize that this is Lynch's second pro season?

Does he have learning to do? Sure.

Let's improve our O line in the offseason, so he gets some blocking, and then see what the kid can do.

All respect for Fred Jackson, he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. i like them both, but i have to agree that Lynch is the power back.


I am curious to see what they do with the offensive line for next season. There are some big contracts already on the books (Dockery, Walker and presumably Peters) so I wonder how much money they are willing to commit to the line as a group.

[yordad]

He might be slow hitting the hole because there isn't one. Maybe he is trying to see if one will develop. Well, that and he is too busy breaking two tackles in the backfield first.

[TheMan08]

Guess, you missed the beautiful run for endzone by Lynch

[Pinkerton Security]

Guess, you missed the beautiful run for endzone by Lynch

paladin warrior?

[X-Era]

The guy is slow hitting holes. Fred Jackson hits the holes so much faster. I think this is going to be a problem long term.

People thought this was nuts a few weeks ago but Jackson needs to start and Lynch needs to come in and pound the ball later on.

Reality check?

Only if your reality is one game or one play long.

[DrGraves]

WRONG! OUR OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS!

[Bone]

Hurricane just stop talking, do I need to breathalyze you?

[Night Train]

Lynch is a bigger Travis Henry, without the penchant for weed & 14 year old girls.

I like our backfield and wish our OL could run block better.

[SquishDaFish]

You smoke entirely too much CRACK! Put down the crackpipe and get HELP!

[Bone]

This dude is always talking like he knows more then any other fan, like the threads with supposedly inside information on bradys injury and TG. Get real bro.

[DynaPaul]

Come on... Lynch is good, he just needs better blocking.

[shelby]

Gentlemen, you can disagree with HH without making it personal.

Surely you have an opinion you can post, rather than nonsense about breathalyzers and crack pipes.

[Ingtar33]

there aren't many holes to hit.

Henry used to miss the holes, his biggest problem was poor vision. I'm not seeing poor vision on Lynch's part. I'm seeing no holes.

sure, sometimes there are some cutback lanes, but Lynch isn't a cutback runner.

[mush69]

there aren't many holes to hit.

Henry used to miss the holes, his biggest problem was poor vision. I'm not seeing poor vision on Lynch's part. I'm seeing no holes.

sure, sometimes there are some cutback lanes, but Lynch isn't a cutback runner.


I remember sitting in the stands and watching Henry and McGahee and thought the very same thing. Willis had much better vision and Travis always ran with his head down.

Lynch is by no means a cutback runner. Its all downhill and straight forward. He looks for contact and moves the pile forward on most plays. I'm quite certain if you are took look around the league most offenses these days have multiple running backs that split the carries. It just makes sense in todays game. The O-line could still use some quickness. We finally got the size now we need to work on getting some spark under their butts and fire off the ball!

[Lefty2985]

relax he is good. how about the fact he only got 13 carries in the game!!!!!!!!

[HHURRICANE]

This looks like the Schobel thread I posted earlier this year. You all go nuts and we all saw how that turned out.

I didn't say Lynch sucked or that I don't want him. But he's not the elite RB that so many of you have him pegged for and I personally think that he should be used differently.

Thank's Shelby for recognizing the difference.

[X-Era]

This looks like the Schobel thread I posted earlier this year. You all go nuts and we all saw how that turned out.

I didn't say Lynch sucked or that I don't want him. But he's not the elite RB that so many of you have him pegged for and I personally think that he should be used differently.

Thank's Shelby for recognizing the difference.
Anytime you start a thread with "reality check" you can expect a strong response.

Thats a fact, and yeah thats a reality check for you.

Your opinion is not reality... its an opinion and holds no more truth than any of our opinions.

Marshawn's play speaks for itself. You want to say the guy doesnt hit the hole hard? show it. prove it. Because until you do, your just talking an opinion.

Many of us fans have seen plenty of his games and feel he hits the hole harder than 90% of the RB's in the league.

Anyone who drags tacklers for extra yards cant be accused of hitting the hole soft. And theres plenty of proof for that, take your own Youtube tour and you can find plenty of runs that make my point.

[SquishDaFish]

Anytime you start a thread with "reality check" you can expect a strong response.

Thats a fact, and yeah thats a reality check for you.

Your opinion is not reality... its an opinion and hold no more truth than any of our opinions.

Marshawn's play speaks for itself. You want to say the guy doesnt hit the hole hard? show it. prove it. Because until you do, your just talking an opinion.

Many of us fans have seen plenty of his games and feel he hits the hole harder than 90% of the RB's in the league.

Anyone who drags tacklers for extra yards cant be accused of hitting the hole soft. And theres plenty of proof for that, take your own Youtube tour and you can find plenty of runs that make my point.

Awesome posting :clap:

[HHURRICANE]

Marshawn's play speaks for itself.

No 100 yard games, ranked 18th in the league, and not even in the top 30 for YPC. Yep.

Hard running team player who I like. Yep.

I'm coming to the Jets game so I'm more than happy to back up my smack in person.

Reality check is when you say someone is "great" and they are ranked 18th in the league.

What game did he carry on his back and win for us?

[X-Era]

No 100 yard games, ranked 18th in the league, and not even in the top 30 for YPC. Yep.

Hard running team player who I like. Yep.

I'm coming to the Jets game so I'm more than happy to back up my smack in person.

Reality check is when you say someone is "great" and they are ranked 18th in the league.

What game did he carry on his back and win for us?

Your right, he sucks.

It will be great to have a true "fan" like you at the Bills game this Sunday.

[Bone]

No 100 yard games, ranked 18th in the league, and not even in the top 30 for YPC. Yep.

Hard running team player who I like. Yep.

I'm coming to the Jets game so I'm more than happy to back up my smack in person.

Reality check is when you say someone is "great" and they are ranked 18th in the league.

What game did he carry on his back and win for us?

What the hell is wrong with you and this 100 yard game bull****, he get 13 carries a game how many yards do you want him to average on 13 carries? Look at the touchdown difference compared to last season, he has 7 in week 8 and he had I believe 8 all of last season. He finds the endzone. Maybe if we played somewhat like the Titans and manage the clock and run the ball to set up the pass rather than pass to set up the run his stats would be different.

[TacklingDummy]

No 100 yard games, ranked 18th in the league, and not even in the top 30 for YPC. Yep.

Hard running team player who I like. Yep.

I'm coming to the Jets game so I'm more than happy to back up my smack in person.

Reality check is when you say someone is "great" and they are ranked 18th in the league.

What game did he carry on his back and win for us?


Thanked post

[TheBrownBear]

Both of the backs are pretty good. I just think Jackson is better. Better vision, quicker, and he's a north-south runner. Better in the passing game too. I'd like to see Jackson get a few more carries. Maybe like 18 for Jackson and 12 for Lynch.

[SquishDaFish]

:roflmao: Some of you are nuts

[yordad]

I'm coming to the Jets game so I'm more than happy to back up my smack in person.
I really don't know what to make of this statement. Are you gonna some how prove Lynch doesn't hit the hole hard in person?

[Billzz]

I really don't know what to make of this statement. Are you gonna some how prove Lynch doesn't hit the hole hard in person?


Atleast he admitted his posting is smack and not based on facts.

[Griff]

yeah a RB with 6 TDs, almost all of what he had his rookie year, sucks...

[Mahdi]

Some of you forget what Lynch can do and what he does on a weekly basis to defenses. Remember his run against the Rams, Witherspoon bursts through the line untouched Lynch looked to have no chance at getting out of the backfield, instead, he stiff arms Witherspoon (MLB) to the ground and takes it around LT for 9 yards.

THAT is something an elite RB does. And Lynch does that it seems every game now. Jackson is probably among the top 3 RB2's in the league but he does NOT have the ability Lynch has.

[Mr. Pink]

I wasn't saying that Lynch sucks, btw, I'm just saying that all of the gushing that is done around here about him is totally unwarranted. People act like he's a top 10 back in this league and I can guarantee you outside of Buffalo that NO one shares that sentiment.

Backs of the top of my head that are better than Lynch now...LT, Turner, S. Jackson, LJ - when healthy, Ronnie Brown, Willie Parker - when healthy, Peterson, Gore, Westbrook...there's 9 without even really trying. Lynch is equal to McGahee, Jamal, Maroney - when healthy, Marion Barber. Does that mean Lynch is bad? No, he's in the middle of the pack somewhere which translates to good but not elite.

Like I said, I don't even think he's an upgrade to McGahee on the field. McGahee ran behind an even worse line here and put up similar numbers. The TDs are different because we have a QB now that can move the ball consistently in the passing game. McGahee coulda racked up 14 TDs too if he had an offense that could move the ball into the RZ consistently.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

I wasn't saying that Lynch sucks, btw, I'm just saying that all of the gushing that is done around here about him is totally unwarranted. People act like he's a top 10 back in this league and I can guarantee you outside of Buffalo that NO one shares that sentiment.

Backs of the top of my head that are better than Lynch now...LT, Turner, S. Jackson, LJ - when healthy, Ronnie Brown, Willie Parker - when healthy, Peterson, Gore, Westbrook...there's 9 without even really trying. Lynch is equal to McGahee, Jamal, Maroney - when healthy, Marion Barber. Does that mean Lynch is bad? No, he's in the middle of the pack somewhere which translates to good but not elite.

Like I said, I don't even think he's an upgrade to McGahee on the field. McGahee ran behind an even worse line here and put up similar numbers. The TDs are different because we have a QB now that can move the ball consistently in the passing game. McGahee coulda racked up 14 TDs too if he had an offense that could move the ball into the RZ consistently.

Lynch is a very good back, not great. He doesn't have breakaway speed. He isn't a great receiver. He isn't a great blocker in pass protection.

All that being said, he is still better than Jackson. Lynch is plenty explosive and very difficult to tackle. He will get yards after contact. He is clearly a harder worker and a better RB than McGahee. Who cares where he ranks in the league. All of the RBs mentioned are very good. Some are great. The Bills are set at RB with a solid 1-2 combination. Both players will likely get better still.

Bills fans should look elsewhere for suggested improvements to the team.

[Philagape]

McGahee would be doing worse (and he is, in Baltimore). Lynch fights for yards like McG never did.

[Mr. Pink]

McGahee's last season here 258 for 990 70.7 a game 3.8 ypc 6 TDs

Lynch 280 for 1115 85.8 a game 4.0 ypc 7 TDs last year
McGahee 294 for 1207 80 a game 4.1 ypc 7 TDs last year

This year...
Lynch 123 for 450 64.3 a game 3.7 ypc 6 TDs
McGahee 100 for 351 58.5 a game 3.5 ypc 3 TDs

You really wanna argue that on the field Lynch is better? They're equals on the field.

Last years line was much better than 2 years ago line and McGahee put up similar numbers, go back to McGahee's rookie year on an even more pathetic line and he put up even better numbers.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This whole thread is an embarrassment. Why would we be calling out Lynch? He has been a good player for us in his short time in Buffalo. He has a great attitude and gives it his all. I am done with this ******ED THREAD!!!

<img src=http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/littlehuddy_87/ForumWars07/thread-******ed-batman.jpg>

[DraftBoy]

Lynch is what he is and some people are never going to fully embrace him for that. He'll never be Tomlinson or Peterson. He's going to be a grinder who gets tough yards, that's the way he is.

[HHURRICANE]

This whole thread is an embarrassment. Why would we be calling out Lynch? He has been a good player for us in his short time in Buffalo. He has a great attitude and gives it his all. I am done with this ******ED THREAD!!!



Wow. Can some of you actually read?

1) Love having Lynch here. Way better than McGahee for this team.

2) Never said he sucks, show me where I said it.

3) I didn't say he needed to be cut or he was a wasted pick.

4) I did say that we should run Jackson first and bring in Lynch later. Why he wasn't in at the goal line is mind boggling to me as well.

5) He's not a great back. Period. Great backs dominate games. If he was so great than they wouldn't be using Jackson as much. Obvioulsy, the Bills have already recognized this.

The embarrasment is when some of you are such homers that you can't be objective.

I took crap for calling out Schobel as well and the same people whiinng in that thread are now whinning in this one. Want to re-open the Schobel debate?

[Philagape]

McGahee's last season here 258 for 990 70.7 a game 3.8 ypc 6 TDs

Lynch 280 for 1115 85.8 a game 4.0 ypc 7 TDs last year
McGahee 294 for 1207 80 a game 4.1 ypc 7 TDs last year

This year...
Lynch 123 for 450 64.3 a game 3.7 ypc 6 TDs
McGahee 100 for 351 58.5 a game 3.5 ypc 3 TDs

You really wanna argue that on the field Lynch is better? They're equals on the field.

Last years line was much better than 2 years ago line and McGahee put up similar numbers, go back to McGahee's rookie year on an even more pathetic line and he put up even better numbers.

As a veteran of the QB debates, you should know better than to put up nothing but blind numbers. I know that watching them, and watching how Lynch fights for yards compared to "One hit and fall" McGahee, I'd take Lynch 10 times out of 10. Lynch carries piles several times a game; I don't remember McG doing that. Lynch has 100 times that punk's heart. McG's first year was impressive, when the Bills made a nice run, but he lost it after that. I don't want that kind of player.

[Mr. Pink]

As a veteran of the QB debates, you should know better than to put up nothing but blind numbers. I know that watching them, and watching how Lynch fights for yards compared to "One hit and fall" McGahee, I'd take Lynch 10 times out of 10. Lynch carries piles several times a game; I don't remember McG doing that. Lynch has 100 times that punk's heart. McG's first year was impressive, when the Bills made a nice run, but he lost it after that. I don't want that kind of player.


They're both different kinds of backs. Willis would get the yardage he got and go down at first contact because he'd make guys miss originally. Lynch seems to seek out contact before following blockers 75% of the time.

In the end they both end up with similar numbers, just a different way of doing it.

On top of the fact McGahee is a better receiver than Lynch, stats and usage do show that to be true.

Neither can block worth a damn too.

The only place where Marshawn outshines Willis is the fact he actually seems to like the area or if he doesn't keeps it to himself. He has done 10 times the job endearing himself to fans.

BUT, I don't care what my player thinks of the town, I care what he does on the field. JP great community guy but I won't be sad to see him not here next year. On the field the end result for the two is no different. Hence why I said it's a lateral move.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this topic.

[HHURRICANE]

I'll take Lynch any day of the week over McGahee. McGahee's numbers could be superior and I wouldn't want that cancer on my team.

That's not the thread I started.

Lynch is slow to hit holes and I think Jackson could do better as the starter with Lynch coming in after.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wow. Can some of you actually read?

1) Love having Lynch here. Way better than McGahee for this team.

2) Never said he sucks, show me where I said it.

3) I didn't say he needed to be cut or he was a wasted pick.

4) I did say that we should run Jackson first and bring in Lynch later. Why he wasn't in at the goal line is mind boggling to me as well.

5) He's not a great back. Period. Great backs dominate games. If he was so great than they wouldn't be using Jackson as much. Obvioulsy, the Bills have already recognized this.

The embarrasment is when some of you are such homers that you can't be objective.

I took crap for calling out Schobel as well and the same people whiinng in that thread are now whinning in this one. Want to re-open the Schobel debate?
NO ONE CARES.

[Philagape]

McG is not a better receiver. Lynch was woefully underused that way by an idiot coordinator last year. Now he's on pace for 55 catches, which is much more than McG's ever had in a season. Lynch's receiving skills were one of his strengths coming out of college.

[HHURRICANE]

NO ONE CARES.

Check-mate.

[THATHURMANATOR]

McG is not a better receiver. Lynch was woefully underused that way by an idiot coordinator last year. Now he's on pace for 55 catches, which is much more than McG's ever had in a season. Lynch's receiving skills were one of his strengths coming out of college.
Yep

[Mr. Pink]

McG is not a better receiver. Lynch was woefully underused that way by an idiot coordinator last year. Now he's on pace for 55 catches, which is much more than McG's ever had in a season. Lynch's receiving skills were one of his strengths coming out of college.

McGahee had 43 catches last year when he was properly used in an offense away from the same idiot coordinator.

[Ebenezer]

Wow. Can some of you actually read?

1) Love having Lynch here. Way better than McGahee for this team.

2) Never said he sucks, show me where I said it.

3) I didn't say he needed to be cut or he was a wasted pick.

4) I did say that we should run Jackson first and bring in Lynch later. Why he wasn't in at the goal line is mind boggling to me as well.

5) He's not a great back. Period. Great backs dominate games. If he was so great than they wouldn't be using Jackson as much. Obvioulsy, the Bills have already recognized this.

The embarrasment is when some of you are such homers that you can't be objective.

I took crap for calling out Schobel as well and the same people whiinng in that thread are now whinning in this one. Want to re-open the Schobel debate?

But your arguement that Jackson is better than Lynch does not hold water as shown by the real statistics I provided earlier.

[PECKERWOOD]

Are you kidding me? Lynch has a knack for getting in the redzone and he thrives off of contact. Jackson is a heckuva good back too but he will never be the redzone threat that Marshawn is. I have to direct some blame at Turk Schonert as well for not getting Lynch more involved. With a RB like the beast, he needs to be seeing 20-25 carries in a game.

[HHURRICANE]

But your arguement that Jackson is better than Lynch does not hold water as shown by the real statistics I provided earlier.

I'm pretty sure that I didn't say that Jackson was the better RB. I did say he was faster through the hole.

The styles are completely different. I'll admit that it's not a "for sure" that if Jackson started that it would make a difference.

I'm not sure how people can argue that Lynch is a great back when he's not had one really explosive game. Oakland is 27th against the run and the Bills gave Marshawyn the ball 23 times but he still couldn't muster better than 3.6 yard YPC.

The Bills aren't going to pull Marshawyn off the field if he's running well. He just hasn't had that dominate game and since he's been here he's had one spectacular game.

[Marvelous]

Instead of putting down Lynch, why not put down Jackson? Not much to complain about. I like em both. Lynch is struggling, Jackson isnt atm..

--Schobel should not be rated based on sacks. He seems to always get great pressure and force ealy throws.. But i don't expect everyone to care about anything but sacks.. Or 100 yard games from Lynch..

[feldspar]

Sorry guys, but among running backs with at least 6 carries per game, Marshawn Lynch is 39th in yards per attempt. This is nothing to brag about. Blame it on the line all you want, but our line isn't the worst in the league. It's not so bad as to justify only 3.7 yards per carry, especially if Lynch is as great as some people think he is. Freddie Jackson has a better YPC average...that's Fred Jackson from Coe College, the National Indoor Football League, the United Indoor football League, and NFL Europe...not a #1 draft pick. Jackson is 13 spots higher on that same YPC list.

Lynch is definitely talented, but I have to question his vision at this point. I think he's too eager to take people on rather than juking them out or finding a hole.

Don't get me wrong; I'm excited to have him. Again, I think he's talented and he really does run like a beast. But I'm not about to give him mad props for average-to-below-average play this year.

Yeah, yeah...it's not his fault. But can you prove that? It was the O-line's fault in Houston, not David Carr's too...that's what they kept saying. I do believe that our run blocking leaves much to be desired, but you can't blame them alone.

[Mahdi]

I wasn't saying that Lynch sucks, btw, I'm just saying that all of the gushing that is done around here about him is totally unwarranted. People act like he's a top 10 back in this league and I can guarantee you outside of Buffalo that NO one shares that sentiment.

Backs of the top of my head that are better than Lynch now...LT, Turner, S. Jackson, LJ - when healthy, Ronnie Brown, Willie Parker - when healthy, Peterson, Gore, Westbrook...there's 9 without even really trying. Lynch is equal to McGahee, Jamal, Maroney - when healthy, Marion Barber. Does that mean Lynch is bad? No, he's in the middle of the pack somewhere which translates to good but not elite.

Like I said, I don't even think he's an upgrade to McGahee on the field. McGahee ran behind an even worse line here and put up similar numbers. The TDs are different because we have a QB now that can move the ball consistently in the passing game. McGahee coulda racked up 14 TDs too if he had an offense that could move the ball into the RZ consistently.


You're analyzing these RBs purely on their production rather than using football knowledge.

LT is clearly a better RB, I'll give you that. Turner, Brown, Parker, Peterson, LJ, Gore are all running through massive holes. Lynch creates holes on his own either by running someone over, stiff arming them or juking them.

The simple fact that you mention Turner as a better RB than Lynch proves that you are basing your arguments on stats only. In that case Schobel would be better than Freeney also. Clearly not true though.

What does Turner have that Lynch doesn't? Lynch is stronger, more elusive and harder to bring down. Turner is faster that's all. If Lynch was running through Turner's holes he would have longer runs as well. but since Lynch has to run away from so many tacklers every time he touches the ball it doesn't happen. Parker, Peterson, LJ and Gore also have the advantage of better run blocking OLs so saying they are better runners is inaccurate. Imagine if Lynch had the benefit of getting to the second level on a more consistent basis like these other RBs you mentioned. That is when Lynch will have the gaudy numbers like they have. There aren't many DBs in the league who can take him down one on one and like we have seen he has sick moves and ability to make guys miss.

From a football standpoint, stats aside, Lynch is definitely top 10 in the league and I would even say top 5-7, because once this OL actually gets going (when Fowler is let go) Lynch will explode.

[DraftBoy]

Have you seen the Falcons play this year, Turner isnt running through massive anything. Turner is earning every yard he is getting and is becoming an elite back in the process.

[feldspar]

Have you seen the Falcons play this year, Turner isnt running through massive anything. Turner is earning every yard he is getting and is becoming an elite back in the process.

What we are witnessing here is sheer homerism at it's best from a bunch of people that act like they've been watching every run by every running back in the league. What they've really probably been watching are the highlights on ESPN.

[Typ0]

definately a thread full of blind homers. Lynch has done nothing to warrant being called a top back other than be the only guy you folks watch every sunday. If anything "based on football knowlege" we should be looking for another back because he's not going to last. I'm not ready to blame our poor running attack on Lynch but I'm not going to just look past him either. He runs hard and punishing. It's nice to watch those runs. That doesn't make him a top back in the league though.

[Luisito23]

Even an average back should have been able to get at least one 100 yard game by this point of the season, or is that asking too much?...

[SpillerThrills]

Lynch needs to be getting 25+ touches per game... not the 6-12 that he's getting now.... there is a big part of the problem right there.....

[Typ0]

Even an average back should have been able to get at least one 100 yard game by this point of the season, or is that asking too much?...


I don't think that is fair as he has been sharing the running duties.

[X-Era]

definately a thread full of blind homers. Lynch has done nothing to warrant being called a top back other than be the only guy you folks watch every sunday. If anything "based on football knowlege" we should be looking for another back because he's not going to last. I'm not ready to blame our poor running attack on Lynch but I'm not going to just look past him either. He runs hard and punishing. It's nice to watch those runs. That doesn't make him a top back in the league though.

At worst your looking at a sophomore curse

At best, your looking at a guy who would be a significant part of a plyoff push, and yet again earns 1000+ yards... hes on track for that by the way and leads us in TD's, DOUBLE the number of any other Bill.

[Ebenezer]

definately a thread full of blind homers. Lynch has done nothing to warrant being called a top back other than be the only guy you folks watch every sunday. If anything "based on football knowlege" we should be looking for another back because he's not going to last. I'm not ready to blame our poor running attack on Lynch but I'm not going to just look past him either. He runs hard and punishing. It's nice to watch those runs. That doesn't make him a top back in the league though.
The original point of HH was that Jackson is better than Lynch. The numbers are just not showing that. If the problem was Lynch than Jackson should be running all over the field...he is not.

[feldspar]

Lynch needs to be getting 25+ touches per game... not the 6-12 that he's getting now.... there is a big part of the problem right there.....

Complete exaggeration...Dude, a word of advice. Don't invent figures to further your argument...people tend to not take you seriously when you do that...

Seriously, we hand the ball off to Lynch about 17 and a half times per game on average. If you take into account the catches he's made, he has been getting exactly 21 touches per game.

21 touches...that's pretty close to your invented goal of 25, isn't it?

What should we do, take touches away from Jackson just so we could give them to Lynch? Why would we do that when Jackson is actually averaging more yards every time he catches or runs the ball?

[Ebenezer]

Complete exaggeration...Dude, a word of advice. Don't invent figures to further your argument...people tend to not take you seriously when you do that...

Seriously, we hand the ball off to Lynch about 17 and a half times per game on average. If you take into account the catches he's made, he has been getting exactly 21 touches per game.

21 touches...that's pretty close to your invented goal of 25, isn't it?

What should we do, take touches away from Jackson just so we could give them to Lynch? Why would we do that when Jackson is actually averaging more yards every time he catches or runs the ball?
Jackson is averaging 0.5 yards more a carry than Lynch. As I said earlier in the thread - two Lynch rushes and an incomplete pass and it's 4th and 3. Two Jackson runs and an incomplete pass and it's 4th and 2. The result is the same...punt.

[FlyingDutchman]

NO ONE CARES.


Thank you

[feldspar]

Jackson is averaging 0.5 yards more a carry than Lynch. As I said earlier in the thread - two Lynch rushes and an incomplete pass and it's 4th and 3. Two Jackson runs and an incomplete pass and it's 4th and 2. The result is the same...punt.

Now you are just being difficult...if a running back always gained his exact average, two runs by most running backs and an incomplete pass and it's 4th down and punt time.

And I never said that Jackson was a better player than Lynch...not in so many words. But Lynch isn't performing any better this year, really. They are two different players, anyway, with two completely different styles. It's good to have both, and I'm not a person that suggests starting Freddie over Lynch.

[SquishDaFish]

Good points EB

[HHURRICANE]

The original point of HH was that Jackson is better than Lynch. The numbers are just not showing that. If the problem was Lynch than Jackson should be running all over the field...he is not.

One more time: I NEVER SAID THAT!!!!

I did say he's quicker through the hole.

Nice try though, and by the looks at how this thread is turning out seems like some people agree with me.

[HHURRICANE]

Sorry guys, but among running backs with at least 6 carries per game, Marshawn Lynch is 39th in yards per attempt. This is nothing to brag about. Blame it on the line all you want, but our line isn't the worst in the league. It's not so bad as to justify only 3.7 yards per carry, especially if Lynch is as great as some people think he is. Freddie Jackson has a better YPC average...that's Fred Jackson from Coe College, the National Indoor Football League, the United Indoor football League, and NFL Europe...not a #1 draft pick. Jackson is 13 spots higher on that same YPC list.

Lynch is definitely talented, but I have to question his vision at this point. I think he's too eager to take people on rather than juking them out or finding a hole.

Don't get me wrong; I'm excited to have him. Again, I think he's talented and he really does run like a beast. But I'm not about to give him mad props for average-to-below-average play this year.

Yeah, yeah...it's not his fault. But can you prove that? It was the O-line's fault in Houston, not David Carr's too...that's what they kept saying. I do believe that our run blocking leaves much to be desired, but you can't blame them alone.

Great post.

I'm a fan of Lynch but if you say he's anything less than "great" or "elite" than your not a fan.

Bottom line is that Lynch would be out there more if he had any runs longer than 22 yards this year.

[Ebenezer]

One more time: I NEVER SAID THAT!!!!

I did say he's quicker through the hole.

Nice try though, and by the looks at how this thread is turning out seems like some people agree with me.
Wanting Jackson to start over Lynch tells me you think that Jackson is the better back...even if you meant "more suited to produce behind the offensive line as assembled" the numbers still do not prove you out.

[PECKERWOOD]

lol, look at how many TD's Lynch has scored already, people are acting moronic here.

[X-Era]

At worst your looking at a sophomore curse

At best, your looking at a guy who would be a significant part of a playoff push, and yet again earns 1000+ yards... hes on track for that by the way and leads us in TD's, DOUBLE the number of any other Bill.

[Bone]

Marshawn is the ****ing man, end of discussion.

[Mad Bomber]

lol, look at how many TD's Lynch has scored already, people are acting moronic here.
:bf1:

If anyone thinks that Lynch is not good, compare any of this year's draft picks to him.

If this guy had a halfway decent run blocking line in front of him, I'd be scared at what he could do.

[HHURRICANE]

I apologize for not realizing that Lynch was an elite back.

[acehole]

The guy is slow hitting holes. Fred Jackson hits the holes so much faster. I think this is going to be a problem long term.

People thought this was nuts a few weeks ago but Jackson needs to start and Lynch needs to come in and pound the ball later on.

This post is a complete joke.
This post and its poster are trying
to shift blame of the QB to the RB.
Dont buy it..there is an elephant in
the room that everyone has to ignore.

[HHURRICANE]

This post is a complete joke.
This post and its poster are trying
to shift blame of the QB to the RB.
Dont buy it..there is an elephant in
the room that everyone has to ignore.

You really are a joke. Your answer is Losman and everyone here knows this. So go back to your little hole.

[yordad]

I apologize for not realizing that Lynch was an elite back.Well, that's a start. Admittence is the first step. Fake it til you make it.

[HHURRICANE]

Well, that's a start. Admittence is the first step. Fake it til you make it.

All joking aside, Lynch is to blame for the numbers more so than the line. The guy is not patient when he needs to be, doesn't follow blockers when they are there, and has poor vision.

[acehole]

You really are a joke. Your answer is Losman and everyone here knows this. So go back to your little hole.

I dont think losmen could have overcome the 2007 bills on its back.
I dont think Trent Edwards can do the same with the 2008 Bills either.
My first post on the topic is valid.

I said last year if your offense and QB are short game heavy they will stack the box (8) stop the run and the short game and dare you to go long..

If anything Edwards is hurting Lynchs game.

Lynch is a stud = you are wrong

Seem like one of us was right.

[EDS]

:bf1:

If anyone thinks that Lynch is not good, compare any of this year's draft picks to him.

If this guy had a halfway decent run blocking line in front of him, I'd be scared at what he could do.

That doesn't exactly make sense because rookies like Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and others (is Steve Slaton a rookie?) have better stats then Lynch.

I am not saying that I would want those other guys instead, although Johnson would be tempting, but I don't understand the logic of your post.

[henrybacker]

His average is also a non-significant 0.5 yards a carrier greater than Lynch's.


So .5 is insignificant? When did that happen?

[evojoe67]

Can't see your problem with Lynch. I think he's a big time runner.

[HHURRICANE]

Can't see your problem with Lynch. I think he's a big time runner.

Our big time runner will be lucky to break 1000 yards which is a fairly well established bench mark.

[evojoe67]

Think you should be more worried about the o-line, rather then Lynch, or Edwards.

[HHURRICANE]

Think you should be more worried about the o-line, rather then Lynch, or Edwards.

I'm going on record as saying that it's not entirley on the o-line. This o-line is good enough to support a good runner and QB.

Edwards hung onto the ball too long yesterday. Lynch missed holes yesterday. I was there and saw it with my own eyes.