A few things to point out from yesterday

[Dr. Lecter]

1. First, I am not proclaiming Hardy a stud or anything. But there were a few times he was open yesterday. I am not saying wide open. But he was open enough (or more than whomever the ball was forced to) that a pass could have been thrown his way. Instead Trent went back and locked onto his receiver (usually Evans or Roscoe) and never even looked at Hardy. He has to look his way, even if it just to keep the defense honest. Hardy had one ball thrown his way the entire game. He will not get better if Trent and the coaches do not use him more. In fact, the worst part of Trent's performance was him only looking at the primary receiver and then the outlet, and not going through any progressions (at least not to the opposite side of the field)

2. I might be in the minority, but the defense played well until the 4th quarter. In the end the defense gave up 16 points. That should be enough to win a game. The last drive was bad, no doubt. But they had 3 solid quarters. Keith Ellison actually made a couple of nice plays too. I wonder if not having McCargo available to give the DTs a break had an effect?

3. Kawika Mitchell was terrible.

4. Derek Fine was outstanding. Hey it is only one game, but it was something!

5. Aaron Schobel is missed. Has been fantastic against the run this year and at least attracts extra attention from the OL on a pass rush.

6. McKelvin is going to break a KO soon.

7. For those that say Jauron never gets out of his calm mode, he did have one animated discussion with the refs.

8. They better win next week, but I don't see it happening.

[RockStar36]

The season is far from over, however if they don't win next week the playoffs are seriously in doubt. They still control their own destiny but they can't keep playing like this.

I liked what I saw from Fine. Hopefully that spells the end of Royal pretty soon.

[EDS]

There is no way to sugarcoat a three game losing streak, particularly when it is with division foes. Let's hope the Bills bring their A-game against NE.

[mchurchfie]

I agree about Hardy. Trent gets too careful with the ball. When Flutie was here he would throw a jumpball up for Moulds and he would usually come down with it. He needs to use Hardy's best assett, his size and give him a chance even when he isn't WIDE open. He also needs to put the ball in a little better spot for Hardy to go after it too.

[FlyingDutchman]

-I feel ever since the SD game, this team has lost its intensity.

-Im just fed up with our Center situation. I dont care if we have a top 10 pick, we better take a friggin center.

-agree on Fine. im looking forward to seeing him play more

[PECKERWOOD]

I agree about Hardy. Trent gets too careful with the ball. When Flutie was here he would throw a jumpball up for Moulds and he would usually come down with it. He needs to use Hardy's best assett, his size and give him a chance even when he isn't WIDE open. He also needs to put the ball in a little better spot for Hardy to go after it too.

Trent tried this one play in the endzone and I think Rhodes came down with it, Hardy hardly put up a fight for the ball.

[HHURRICANE]

1) Sorry, but Hardy was slow running routes and I saw several times where Hardy looked like the primary and he was completely covered.

2) There were a few times where Evans had one on one and I think Trent should have gone long but who knows.

3) Derek Fine is just another junk hybrid TE. I don't know why this board falls in love with mediocre players. Coy Wire, 10 times over.

Enjoyed meeting some of the zoners!!

[Dr. Lecter]

It was with a minute left and while Hardy did not put up a good fight, the pass was in perfect position for the Jets DB.

BTW, Trent stared Hardy down on that pass too so everybody knew where it was going.

And while I realize (as CoachSal as pointed out) that staring down a reciever is going to happen and QBs are criticized too much for it, I thought it really stood out yesterday. Could be wrong though.

[Dr. Lecter]

1) Sorry, but Hardy was slow running routes and I saw several times where Hardy looked like the primary and he was completely covered.

2) There were a few times where Evans had one on one and I think Trent should have gone long but who knows.

3) Derek Fine is just another junk hybrid TE. I don't know why this board falls in love with mediocre players. Coy Wire, 10 times over.

Enjoyed meeting some of the zoners!!

Who is in love with Fine? He had a very good game yesterday. I think proclaiming him a stud or mediocre is waaaaaaaaaaaaay premature.

[patmoran2006]

The season is far from over, however if they don't win next week the playoffs are seriously in doubt. They still control their own destiny but they can't keep playing like this.

I liked what I saw from Fine. Hopefully that spells the end of Royal pretty soon.
They combined for 7 catches and 113 yards Sunday.. or something like that.

[Saratoga Slim]

1. First, I am not proclaiming Hardy a stud or anything. But there were a few times he was open yesterday. I am not saying wide open. But he was open enough (or more than whomever the ball was forced to) that a pass could have been thrown his way. Instead Trent went back and locked onto his receiver (usually Evans or Roscoe) and never even looked at Hardy. He has to look his way, even if it just to keep the defense honest. Hardy had one ball thrown his way the entire game. He will not get better if Trent and the coaches do not use him more. In fact, the worst part of Trent's performance was him only looking at the primary receiver and then the outlet, and not going through any progressions (at least not to the opposite side of the field)

2. I might be in the minority, but the defense played well until the 4th quarter. In the end the defense gave up 16 points. That should be enough to win a game. The last drive was bad, no doubt. But they had 3 solid quarters. Keith Ellison actually made a couple of nice plays too. I wonder if not having McCargo available to give the DTs a break had an effect?

3. Kawika Mitchell was terrible.

4. Derek Fine was outstanding. Hey it is only one game, but it was something!

5. Aaron Schobel is missed. Has been fantastic against the run this year and at least attracts extra attention from the OL on a pass rush.

6. McKelvin is going to break a KO soon.

7. For those that say Jauron never gets out of his calm mode, he did have one animated discussion with the refs.

8. They better win next week, but I don't see it happening.

Good Post. I especially agree about the defense. If the Jets hadn't reeled off that long drive to clinch the game, I would have said that on the whole our defense played well yesterday. They gave up one touchdown. A stop on that last drive, and they would they have only given up 13 points. That should be enough to win.

Our defense is not dominant, but it's playing well enough for us to make the playoffs if the offense can do its part. I'm not panicking about the defense.

What's killing us is our inability to run the football. That's what we should be panicking about.

[HHURRICANE]

Who is in love with Fine? He had a very good game yesterday. I think proclaiming him a stud or mediocre is waaaaaaaaaaaaay premature.

You said he was "outstanding."

So that means Royal must have been super-duper, exceptional!!

[RockStar36]

You said he was "outstanding."

So that means Royal must have been super-duper, exceptional!!

How do you classify how the guy played yesterday?

[HHURRICANE]

It was with a minute left and while Hardy did not put up a good fight, the pass was in perfect position for the Jets DB.

BTW, Trent stared Hardy down on that pass too so everybody knew where it was going.

And while I realize (as CoachSal as pointed out) that staring down a reciever is going to happen and QBs are criticized too much for it, I thought it really stood out yesterday. Could be wrong though.

Trent didn't have a good game but it seems like winning is completely on his shoulders. 30 yards rushing is a joke.

Beastmode is more like Leastmode.

[Dr. Lecter]

He was outstanding.

I also said it was only one game.

For a guy playing in his 2nd career game, he did pretty well. He blocked well too.

But it is only one game.

[RockStar36]

They combined for 7 catches and 113 yards Sunday.. or something like that.

Royal has entered that "Afinogenov territory" for me. So unless he is catching the winning pass in the Super Bowl, I won't be very impressed with him.

[HHURRICANE]

How do you classify how the guy played yesterday?

"Fine"

[Dr. Lecter]

Trent didn't have a good game but it seems like winning is completely on his shoulders. 30 yards rushing is a joke.

Beastmode is more like Leastmode.


Freddie Jackson had nothing running either. I dare say that I can think og very few RBs that would have ran well behind that line yesterday. Kris Jenkins was in the backfield all day long.

[Forward_Lateral]

You said he was "outstanding."

So that means Royal must have been super-duper, exceptional!!

How can you argue that Fine was anything but outstanding yesterday? It was his first NFL game, he caught every pass thrown to him, including a TD.

Royal also played pretty well yesterday.

Learn to read. Lecter said Fine had an outstanding game, not that he's an outstanding TE.

[HHURRICANE]

Freddie Jackson had nothing running either. I dare say that I can think og very few RBs that would have ran well behind that line yesterday. Kris Jenkins was in the backfield all day long.

Now, now, be fair. You were in the stadium. You heard the collectiove sigh on a bunch of Lynch's run where he, and he alone, lost yardage.

The guy had a bad game. This blame it all on the o-line is starting to get old.

[Typ0]

Royal is a good TE as long as they don't throw him the ball. Fine looked great yesterday.

[Dr. Lecter]

I also heard a sigh when Fred Jackson dropped a screen pass that would have gone for 20 yards or more.

Yesteday's rushing stats: Lynch 9 carries, 16 yards, 1.8 YPC (Long of 6)
Jackson, 7 carries, 15 yards, 2.1 YPC (Long of 7)

So, was the problem the RBs, the line, both or other?

[Forward_Lateral]

Anyone who thinks the problem is with the RBs and not the o-line is either a.) blind, or b.) A complete moron who lacks a single ounce of football knowledge.

[HHURRICANE]

How can you argue that Fine was anything but outstanding yesterday? It was his first NFL game, he caught every pass thrown to him, including a TD.



He played well. So what? He wasn't Tony Gonzales out there. Anyone could have caught that TD pass. He was wide open and unprotected.

Should I pull all of the threads where a guy played well and you guys got all excited.

I just think this board elevates players too much here. It wasn't like I left the game and thought "wow, Fine was outstanding".

[HHURRICANE]

I also heard a sigh when Fred Jackson dropped a screen pass that would have gone for 20 yards or more.

Yesteday's rushing stats: Lynch 9 carries, 16 yards, 1.8 YPC (Long of 6)
Jackson, 7 carries, 15 yards, 2.1 YPC (Long of 7)

So, was the problem the RBs, the line, both or other?

Jacksons' drop was huge.

[HHURRICANE]

Anyone who thinks the problem is with the RBs and not the o-line is either a.) blind, or b.) A complete moron who lacks a single ounce of football knowledge.

Yep, and JP didn't get enough time to throw the ball last year.

The local annoucers even acknowledged that the line might not be super but it's certainly adequate enough to get more than 30 yards from our RBs.

Lynch missed lanes yesterday that we could see from our seats. I was on the 50 yard line, club level, so they were fairly visible.

[Forward_Lateral]

He played well. So what? He wasn't Tony Gonzales out there. Anyone could have caught that TD pass. He was wide open and unprotected.

Should I pull all of the threads where a guy played well and you guys got all excited.

I just think this board elevates players too much here. It wasn't like I left the game and thought "wow, Fine was outstanding".

Are you illiterate, or just plain stupid? Nobody said Fine is Tony Gonzales. Lecter said he had an outstanding game. For a guy that had never played an NFL down before, he did.

[HHURRICANE]

Are you illiterate, or just plain stupid? Nobody said Fine is Tony Gonzales. Lecter said he had an outstanding game. For a guy that had never played an NFL down before, he did.

Your opinion. He caught a pass that wasn't defended. What I would expect from anyone wearing an NFL jersey.

[Forward_Lateral]

Yep, and JP didn't get enough time to throw the ball last year.

The local annoucers even acknowledged that the line might not be super but it's certainly adequate enough to get more than 30 yards from our RBs.

Lynch missed lanes yesterday that we could see from our seats. I was on the 50 yard line, club level, so they were fairly visible.

I don't care if you were in the huddle, there was zero push from the O-line yesterday. ZERO. There were no huge holes or lanes. There was constantly at least one Jet defender in the backfield, and at least 2 Bills linemen on the ground.

[Forward_Lateral]

Your opinion. He caught a pass that wasn't defended. What I would expect from anyone wearing an NFL jersey.

He caught 4 passes, 3 were first downs, the other was a touchdown.

[FlyingDutchman]

HH can you read? or are you trying to turn peoples words to start an arguement?

[OpIv37]

3) Derek Fine is just another junk hybrid TE. I don't know why this board falls in love with mediocre players. Coy Wire, 10 times over.


You may be right but I think this is only the second or 3rd game where Fine has been active and it was the first one where he saw significant action. And he looked pretty damn good. With all the mediocrity we've had at TE, I think fans just cling to any glimmer of hope at the position. He doesn't have to be Jason Witten (although it would be great if he is)- he just has to be good enough to put Robert Royal's ass on the bench where it belongs. I seriously cringe every time I see Royal touch the ball or even a pass going in his direction.

[Forward_Lateral]

You may be right but I think this is only the second or 3rd game where Fine has been active and it was the first one where he saw significant action. And he looked pretty damn good. With all the mediocrity we've had at TE, I think fans just cling to any glimmer of hope at the position. He doesn't have to be Jason Witten (although it would be great if he is)- he just has to be good enough to put Robert Royal's ass on the bench where it belongs. I seriously cringe every time I see Royal touch the ball or even a pass going in his direction.

Wow, someone who can read!

[RockStar36]

He played well. So what? He wasn't Tony Gonzales out there. Anyone could have caught that TD pass. He was wide open and unprotected.

Should I pull all of the threads where a guy played well and you guys got all excited.

I just think this board elevates players too much here. It wasn't like I left the game and thought "wow, Fine was outstanding".

How did Tony Gonzalez play in his rookie year? Or better yet, his first or second game? How can you compare Fine to a future HOF TE. You're being ridiculous.

[Dr. Lecter]

He caught 4 passes, 3 were first downs, the other was a touchdown.

And he, unlike the o-line, was decent in run blocking.

Again, all I am saying about him is that compared to most 4th round picks who are playing in game # 2 of their career he was outstanding and exceeded any reasonable expectations.

He had 4 catches like FL said. 3 first downs and one TD, which while it was easy and he ws wide open, also took patience on his behalf to wait for Trent to move right and find a passing lane.

He is not Kellen Winslow (Sr) or Shannon Sharpe.

But on a day that was fuglier than my last three dates, he stood out as a bright spot.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Speaking of drops, I think we should send a thank you note to Jabbar Gaffney.

I agree that the lack of a running game is beginning to have an effect on the offense as a whole. Hopefully, it becomes a focus this week. We must be telegraphing the run somehow because teams always have someone in the gaps where we run to. The big screen early in the game to Lynch was off of play action that drew the linebackers up to the line. they tried another to Jackson that was dropped and then the play disappeared. One or 2 more effective screens would have possibly kept the LB's guessing leaving more room between the tackles later.

[Akhippo]

Maybe Im missing the design of a play since it all seems to become a jumble of our lineman laying on the ground and our RBs running into a pile; but do we run off tackle? We had some success with toss sweeps and some pulling plays.

That doesnt absolve the lineman from flat our sucking at run blocking though. We are not going anywhere in the playoffs or to the playoffs until they can open up holes consistently.

[OpIv37]

Maybe Im missing the design of a play since it all seems to become a jumble of our lineman laying on the ground and our RBs running into a pile; but do we run off tackle? We had some success with toss sweeps and some pulling plays.

That doesnt absolve the lineman from flat our sucking at run blocking though. We are not going anywhere in the playoffs or to the playoffs until they can open up holes consistently.

I'm not really sure if anyone knows if we run off-tackle or not. There were usually 3 or 4 defenders in the backfield by the time the RB got the ball, so it's really tough to tell where he was planning on going with it.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm not really sure if anyone knows if we run off-tackle or not. There were usually 3 or 4 defenders in the backfield by the time the RB got the ball, so it's really tough to tell where he was planning on going with it.

What!! There was clearly many holes that Lynch didn't see, and the O-line is not to blame!

/sarcasm

[justasportsfan]

2. I might be in the minority, but the defense played well until the 4th quarter. In the end the defense gave up 16 points. That should be enough to win a game. The last drive was bad, no doubt. But they had 3 solid quarters. Keith Ellison actually made a couple of nice plays too. I wonder if not having McCargo available to give the DTs a break had an effect?

.
as much as I want more out of the D, this unit has carried the team all these years.

[Philagape]

You heard the collectiove sigh on a bunch of Lynch's run where he, and he alone, lost yardage.

That's the problem ... by the time he gets to the line, it's him, and him alone, against three defenders.

[Historian]

3. Kawika Mitchell was terrible.

.

I can't figure out what happed to him in the last month.

He must have found Chippewa Street.

[HHURRICANE]

Okay, Fine is awesome. Lynch is an elite back. Than we should be in good shape. There is no way we could go from first place to last place in this division. No way.

Well unless we lose to the Pats and the Jets beat St. Louis and Miami beats the Seahawks this weekend.

[FlyingDutchman]

Okay, Fine is awesome.

are you 6 years old, dumb, or just missing the point. which is it.

[madness]

Yep, and JP didn't get enough time to throw the ball last year.

The local annoucers even acknowledged that the line might not be super but it's certainly adequate enough to get more than 30 yards from our RBs.

Lynch missed lanes yesterday that we could see from our seats. I was on the 50 yard line, club level, so they were fairly visible.

That's because you could see behind Kris Jenkins. All Lynch and Jackson could see was the front of him as they were getting handed the ball. He destroyed our line and we didn't have an answer for him all day.

[Crisis]

leodis fields kicks like they're a punt, a lot of hesitation and he makes people miss in tight space. if we didn't have roscoe back there i think he'd be great on punt returns. with mcgee returning kicks there's zero hesitation, he picks his spot and he's gone.

[yordad]

Lector, when did Jauron get animated? I missed that.

[DraftBoy]

How did Tony Gonzalez play in his rookie year? Or better yet, his first or second game? How can you compare Fine to a future HOF TE. You're being ridiculous.

Tony G Rookie Season:
33 catches, 368yds, 11.2 ypc, 2 TD

His first two games:
3 catches 45 yards, 15.0 ypc, 0 TD


http://www.nfl.com/players/tonygonzalez/gamelogs?id=GON587645&season=1997

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