WTF is wrong with you people?

[patmoran2006]

Leodis McKelvin has played EIGHT GAMES in his entire career. Relax!!!

If he's not quite ready to start and/or be a heavy contributor yet, THIS year in his rookie season, it doesnt mean he was a bad pick or he sucks.

The kid can play. He will be FINE.. Maybe not this year, and that sucks.. but he will be just fine. Count me in the minority (going by this board, that's an understatement) but I actually think he's going to be good.. He's already outstanding in run support (IMO) and he'll improve against the pass.


Hardy I have mixed feelings about (but not willing to bust him up as a rookie either) and I do NOT like the way this Ellis kid is looking (too weak to play in the NFL from what I see). but man, the piling on Leodis on this board is insane.

[mchurchfie]

The coaching staff needs to relax and give him some more playing time.

[jdbillsfan]

This draft class is a bust.

[bigbub2352]

Leodis McKelvin has played EIGHT GAMES in his entire career. Relax!!!

If he's not quite ready to start and/or be a heavy contributor yet, THIS year in his rookie season, it doesnt mean he was a bad pick or he sucks.

The kid can play. He will be FINE.. Maybe not this year, and that sucks.. but he will be just fine. Count me in the minority (going by this board, that's an understatement) but I actually think he's going to be good.. He's already outstanding in run support (IMO) and he'll improve against the pass.


Hardy I have mixed feelings about (but not willing to bust him up as a rookie either) and I do NOT like the way this Ellis kid is looking (too weak to play in the NFL from what I see). but man, the piling on Leodis on this board is insane.

I am on record that i hate the McKelvin pick, from day 1, and i have to say i dont want to put him in the Bust category and i do understand it is to early to do so.... but he should not have been taken at 11 his in ability to digest the defense is scary as well as his in decisiveness on Kick returns

Maybe we are spoiled wit h McGee and parrish being able to do it right our of college or the countless other Kick returners who did well right out of college
But i am sorry Pat cause normally i agree with you but Leodis has done nothing but mis tackles on run support that was also his biggest knock besides stone hands coming out of college, and i have watched all the replays and been to games, and he has missed alot of tackles an 11th overall pick should have made

We should have went O or D line which is what u suggessted we do and i wanted a WR, i was defintly wrong there, but we need to stop taking DBs in the top 15 not worth it when u can pull someone just as good in the later rounds

Personally i think if Reggie Corner was given playing time he would be contributing more than Leodis at CB just like he did in the preseason

This is looking like a bad draft class up and down
Our best player mite be Steve Johnson but our coaches wont swallow there pride and give the later picks playing time, they just keep letting Hardy be misused and keep letting Leodis get used

[gr8slayer]

Leodis McKelvin has played EIGHT GAMES in his entire career. Relax!!!

If he's not quite ready to start and/or be a heavy contributor yet, THIS year in his rookie season, it doesnt mean he was a bad pick or he sucks.

The kid can play. He will be FINE.. Maybe not this year, and that sucks.. but he will be just fine. Count me in the minority (going by this board, that's an understatement) but I actually think he's going to be good.. He's already outstanding in run support (IMO) and he'll improve against the pass.


Hardy I have mixed feelings about (but not willing to bust him up as a rookie either) and I do NOT like the way this Ellis kid is looking (too weak to play in the NFL from what I see). but man, the piling on Leodis on this board is insane.
Some people expect instant gratification and don't realize that rookies take time to grow.

[patmoran2006]

I am on record that i hate the McKelvin pick, from day 1, and i have to say i dont want to put him in the Bust category and i do understand it is to early to do so.... but he should not have been taken at 11 his in ability to digest the defense is scary as well as his in decisiveness on Kick returns

Maybe we are spoiled wit h McGee and parrish being able to do it right our of college or the countless other Kick returners who did well right out of college
But i am sorry Pat cause normally i agree with you but Leodis has done nothing but mis tackles on run support that was also his biggest knock besides stone hands coming out of college, and i have watched all the replays and been to games, and he has missed alot of tackles an 11th overall pick should have made

We should have went O or D line which is what u suggessted we do and i wanted a WR, i was defintly wrong there, but we need to stop taking DBs in the top 15 not worth it when u can pull someone just as good in the later rounds

Personally i think if Reggie Corner was given playing time he would be contributing more than Leodis at CB just like he did in the preseason

This is looking like a bad draft class up and down
Our best player mite be Steve Johnson but our coaches wont swallow there pride and give the later picks playing time, they just keep letting Hardy be misused and keep letting Leodis get used
I didnt want McKelvin either.. I was praying we'd take an OL Brandon Albert. How much better would our interior OL be with him on it?

but having said that, McKelvin is a good player and he'll be fine.. He just needs time.. He came from a small school, its a bigger adjustment.

[bigbub2352]

I didnt want McKelvin either.. I was praying we'd take an OL Brandon Albert. How much better would our interior OL be with him on it?

but having said that, McKelvin is a good player and he'll be fine.. He just needs time.. He came from a small school, its a bigger adjustment.

Alot of players come from small schools and do well i hope i am dead wrong about him i truly do, i hope i am dead wrong about alot of things i complain about on here, but unfortunalty the last 8 yrs i have been right about alot
maybe i am the problem

[Mitchell55]

So you havent made a opinion on McKelvin in 9 games but you have with ellis in 1?

[BillsWin]

Greer and McKelvin will be our starting CBs in 2 years... I LOVE McGee, but I feel like we drafted McKelvin to replace Greer, but Greer is a ball hawk, and has proven to be pretty close to shut down. The knee injury also sets McGee back a little.

[Mr. Miyagi]

All I know is what I see, that McKelvin looks slow as hell and sucks at returning kicks. Parrish should return every punt and kick.

[Mitchell55]

All I know is what I see, that McKelvin looks slow as hell and sucks at returning kicks. Parrish should return every punt and kick.



Sucks at returning kicks? Hes 7th in yards, 4th in 20 + returns.

[tat2dmike77]

And next year when he plays like th #8 pick that he is everyone will here will be licking his crack.

[patmoran2006]

So you havent made a opinion on McKelvin in 9 games but you have with ellis in 1?
2.. It only seems like he's played in one.. Or none.

I like McKelvin's size and ability.. I don't like Ellis' size and ability. McKelvin has to learn the speed in the NFL to be a good player. that's going to happen.

Ellis has to learn how to not get blocked into the 7th row of a stadium at DE. I don't see that happening.

From everything I've seen, read and people I've talked too..This guy has been a huge dissapointment since the summer and I think that's evidenced by Copeland Bryan not only beating him out in camp, but getting on the field and and the rotation before him.

[Mitchell55]

2.. It only seems like he's played in one.. Or none.

I like McKelvin's size and ability.. I don't like Ellis' size and ability. McKelvin has to learn the speed in the NFL to be a good player. that's going to happen.

Ellis has to learn how to not get blocked into the 7th row of a stadium at DE. I don't see that happening.

From everything I've seen, read and people I've talked too..This guy has been a huge dissapointment since the summer and I think that's evidenced by Copeland Bryan not only beating him out in camp, but getting on the field and and the rotation before him.



Our FO has been to stupid to play him. Hes only played about 10 snaps in his career, he is 6-4 and 250+ pounds so size is not a factor. He will be fine.

[Griz78]

Saying he can't beat out Copeland Bryan is crap right now too since it seems like Bryan is the only guy of our DEs to make a play the last couple of weeks.

[X-Era]

Leodis McKelvin has played EIGHT GAMES in his entire career. Relax!!!

If he's not quite ready to start and/or be a heavy contributor yet, THIS year in his rookie season, it doesnt mean he was a bad pick or he sucks.

The kid can play. He will be FINE.. Maybe not this year, and that sucks.. but he will be just fine. Count me in the minority (going by this board, that's an understatement) but I actually think he's going to be good.. He's already outstanding in run support (IMO) and he'll improve against the pass.


Hardy I have mixed feelings about (but not willing to bust him up as a rookie either) and I do NOT like the way this Ellis kid is looking (too weak to play in the NFL from what I see). but man, the piling on Leodis on this board is insane.

Not agreeing or disagreeing that this class is a bust... we dont know yet.

However, Some of us have noted about the number of smallish school prospects or even prospects that seemed to be reaches. This draft reminds me of our last one:

Erik Flowers- the school was large, but he was a late riser
Traveres Tillman- Ga Tech not a small school, but considered a reach
Corey Moore- Va Tech, undersized and everyone knew it.
Avion Black- Tenn St
Sammy Morris- Tex Tech
Leif Larsen- Tex El Paso
Drew Haddad- Buff
DaShon Polk- Arizona

Almost every pick was either considered a reach, or was a small school guy.

Last year we got 3 starters right off the bat out of the draft (Lynch, Edwards, Poz). This year it looks like we dont have a single one thats ready to start.

Its a significant difference.

If I had a do-over, I would have went with:

1) Albert or DRC
2) Eddie Royal- I was big on him well before the draft
3) Chris Ellis would still have made me smile- but now maybe a guy like Dan Connor would have been better

[Dr. Lecter]

All I know is what I see, that McKelvin looks slow as hell and sucks at returning kicks. Parrish should return every punt and kick.

Sucks at returning kicks?

He is averaging over 25 yards a kick-off return. Not to mention Parrish is a little small to be returnin KOs.

McKelvin is ready to break one. He has been flirting with it. People need to remember that players like Neufeld, Stamer, Haggan, Wire and Aiken are gone from ST and they were the blockers for McGee for years.

[Dr. Lecter]

:

1) Albert or DRC
2) Eddie Royal- I was big on him well before the draft
3) Chris Ellis would still have made me smile- but now maybe a guy like Dan Connor would have been better

Why Eddie Royal? Another small WR?

And while you criticize small school guys you still go for DRC?

Evaluating a do over at this point of these players career is silly. It is way too early.

[HHURRICANE]

Dude chill, I actually said that i thought McKelvin would get a pick if he plays on Sunday. I don't think he's looked that bad in coverage for a rookie.

Hardy, now he might be a bust.

[madness]

This year's draft class is a bust and my 14 month old son has not yet become a man. :wtf:

[RockStar36]

Agreed. Same with Hardy. How long did it take Moulds to break through?

[DraftBoy]

Pat just yesterday you have this crazy idea to bench Peters for no really good reason. You are one of the last people at the moment to being calling people out for overreacting.

[B-DON]

Leodis McKelvin has played EIGHT GAMES in his entire career. Relax!!!

If he's not quite ready to start and/or be a heavy contributor yet, THIS year in his rookie season, it doesnt mean he was a bad pick or he sucks.
Would you expect anything less from a Bills fan? The sky is always falling in the billszone.

[X-Era]

Why Eddie Royal? Another small WR?

And while you criticize small school guys you still go for DRC?

Evaluating a do over at this point of these players career is silly. It is way too early.

I said that Eddie Royal seemed to me to be one of the best prospects at WR this past year. I also said DeSean Jackson. I would have been happy with us taking him in the 2nd round.

As far as height goes, its nice to have height if you also prove you can run routes, break on the ball, and catch. We went after height to get a end zone threat and it hasn't worked out the way we planned so far. Its still very early, but Eddie Royal has done more and to be honest, Im not suprised. I liked him better than Hardy as a prospect. Size is nice if you also are a good receiver all around. But to trade size for all the other receiving abilities, no I wouldnt do that. Im not saying thats what we did, Im just saying that Eddie Royal was a better prospect overall IMO. But yes, only time will tell.

I said DRC should be our guy out of the top 3, but said I was not as fond of McKelvin or Jenkins. He was the best out of 3 small school CB's.

My point is more about us taking risks on smaller school guys. Why is that a risk? Well, some would argue that level of competition affects the ability of a prospect to transition to the NFL. The guys we drafted may have the god given ability but may not have been tested as early and as often with the level of talent that they will face on Sundays.

[Patti120]

:movie:

[thenry20]

Leodis McKelvin has played EIGHT GAMES in his entire career. Relax!!!

If he's not quite ready to start and/or be a heavy contributor yet, THIS year in his rookie season, it doesnt mean he was a bad pick or he sucks.

The kid can play. He will be FINE.. Maybe not this year, and that sucks.. but he will be just fine. Count me in the minority (going by this board, that's an understatement) but I actually think he's going to be good.. He's already outstanding in run support (IMO) and he'll improve against the pass.


Hardy I have mixed feelings about (but not willing to bust him up as a rookie either) and I do NOT like the way this Ellis kid is looking (too weak to play in the NFL from what I see). but man, the piling on Leodis on this board is insane.

I have no prob with his coverage skills because I knew that would be seriously lacking. It's the kicking game he has no confidence in. I don't know what he's doing but he hits the wedge slowly and w/o purpose. He should be going full speed and making people miss. We should consider putting McGee back in here and spell the rookie a bit.

[Luisito23]

Sucks at returning kicks? Hes 7th in yards, 4th in 20 + returns.


I guess he's expecting him to return every single kick to the house?...What a stupid statement that was. Leodis is just fine returning kicks, sooner or later he will eventually break one, but so far he has been putting us in good field position, it's not his fault that this offense can't take advantage of it.

[SquishDaFish]

I agree Pat :clap:

[raphael120]

I'm not pissed at McKelvin, I'm pissed at our crappy scouts.

Miami was 1-15 last year. Now theyve turned it around and are only 1 game behind the Bills who have had the benefit of having 3 years of "building".

[Forward_Lateral]

The coaching staff needs to relax and give him some more playing time.

Agreed.

[feldspar]

Put McGee back there returning kicks. He's much better at it.

[Lexwhat]

Some people expect instant gratification and don't realize that rookies take time to grow.

Pat Moran has been one of the swiftest and harshest critics of this team for years. This includes everything from draft picks to free agents (the moment we draft them or sign them), to the coaches and to the front office, and all the way up to Ralph Wilson ...

It's ironic he's making this thread.

Just sayin.

[Philagape]

The problem is, the team had holes and immediate needs coming in, and they drafted long-term projects. Most of all at receiver.
That's not necessarily a bad way to go, it just requires patience. But Hardy and McKelvin BETTER become damn good to justify the wait for them.

[Lefty2985]

You guys are football fans? you cant call someone a bust after a half a season! He will be fine i told you guys when i went to training camp he looked lost and tired but he is young and needs time. I think he will be just fine.

[yordad]

Seems someone from this class could have shown some kind of "flash" of their limitless potential by now. It is only natural to get a little antsy. NTM, more then half the board questioned picks 1, 3 and 4 right from the start.

Just think what this team would be like if McKelvin, Hardy, Ellis and Fine stepped in as average starting players right from day one. Not likely to have happened. Probably just as likely would have been saying none would contributed at all. Throw in the others that wouldn't have been expected to do anything and haven't exceed expectation: Bowen, Johnson, Omon, Bell, Johnson, Cox.

Maybe the previous two drafts "spoiled" us. We got 8 rookie starters in the '06 and '07 drafts. But then again, those guys started right away because our team was bad, right? Now it is better, right? We can't expect walk on starters now.

Well, we have several positions were we may be fielding the worst starters in the league. Arguably the SLB, C, TE, FB, ands the #2 WR. Our Current CB and DE situations could have those players collectively being the worst at in the league also. And dang, even our line looks bad.

Now look, I hope these guys are going to be good, and I still have a lot of faith they will be at some point. But it would have been really nice to see it from at least one sooner then later.

Seems we have a lot of relatively week positions and have had relatively little instant draft impact. I mean, how many teams had an '08 draft that had as little immediate impact as us?

[yordad]

Heck Omon is bigger then Schouman. Schouman was an H-back last year. Actually, if Omon tried FB, it could give us a lot of versitility. He wouldn't be the smallest FB in the league. :idunno:

[colin]

Sucks at returning kicks? Hes 7th in yards, 4th in 20 + returns.

jesus, is that right?

you know, the way people wax on about our players and who is sheet and how our coaching sucks and all this make me laugh.

we have had HORRIBLE HORRIBLE ball control (TMQ had a bit about our last 15 drives or so, we are giving the ball away on over half of them) and that is why we have lost.

period.

[feldspar]

jesus, is that right?

you know, the way people wax on about our players and who is sheet and how our coaching sucks and all this make me laugh.

Yeah, it's absolutely right that McKelvin is 7th in the league in return yards. It's also true that McKelvin is in a 3-way tie for 5th in the league in kick-off attempts.
So, before you become too impressed, consider this equation:

More attempts = more yards.

The same logic can be applied to the misleading "most 20+ yard returns stat." The more attempts you have, the better you will do with this stat. 21 yards is nothing special at all on a kick return...in fact, you expect it from anybody for the most part.

McGee is better than McKelvin at retuning kicks...I don't know how anyone could ever question that. McKelvin has been average at returning kicks, placing 14th at kick returners for average yards per attempt among players that have had a significant amount of returns.

This is in no way a dig at McKelvin, but a dig at the coaches for not putting the best player on the field, which is McGee when it comes to kick returns. McGee went to the Pro Bowl for it and was an All-Pro for it twice. McGee is one of the best in the league and we've totally abandoned him because a different player showed potential at Troy, who didn't even routinely play nearly the best college teams.

McGee, in no way, deserved to have the kick-off duty taken out from under him. That's what he's best at. I don't even know why we would take a player's kick-off return skill into account when drafting him...we already have one of the best of those. Just give me a solid #1 corner, which McGee isn't. He's would make a very good #2, though.

[TigerJ]

When the season waxes on, the team begins to struggle, and the promise of preseason begins to seem tainted, Joe Average Fan's fancy often turns to . . . scapegoating, looking for places to point fingers, and saying, "My pain is your fault!" It's true that a thorough and careful assessment of the team will need to be done by the Bills' brain trust after the season, and maybe they will finger some of the people we've been blaming, but our scapegoating is more of an emotional catharsis than am objective analysis.

I agree, it's way too early to use the "Bust" label for McKelvin, Hardy and the rest of the draft class. I don't have the access to any information that suggests Ellis has strength issues, so I'll withhold judgement on that.

[Mr. Pink]

Let's see...

Hardy can't run routes and can't catch very well apparently. Two staples of being a WR in this league.

McKelvin can't cover and can't catch. Catching has always been his weakness. It's obvious the coaches don't trust him when they put a hobbled McGee on Ted Ginn and NEVER shifted him off the whole game.

They look to be two very suspect picks at this point. Could either turn it around? Sure. McKelvin's problem might be he doesn't understand the scheme fully yet and his responsibilities in it. Hardy is a bit more problematic when he's struggling at two fundamentals of a WR.

[DrGraves]

fine maybe he'll grow into a corner. he still sucks at returning kicks.