"this looks like the Browns team of last year"

[OpIv37]

That's what Chris Collinsworth just said after Brady Quinn threw his second TD to put Cleveland up 17-7.

Plus they have a long week to prepare.

We're in trouble...

[Dr. Lecter]

If there is any good news, you and I could run on Denver's defense.

[Saratoga Slim]

Denver's defense is terrible.

I'm more concerned about going on the road against NE. If we win that, we can handle Cleveland.

[Saratoga Slim]

Also, there's sometimes an advantage for a QB starting for the first time--especially a guy like Quinn that isn't a true rookie anymore. If he comes out on his game, no one has any film on him. Remember how good Trent initially looked when Losman went down against NE last year?

[OpIv37]

If there is any good news, you and I could run on Denver's defense.
I'll feel better when Meathead can run on Denver's D.

[Dr. Lecter]

BTW, last week I went through the gate with him.
It was awesome.

[OpIv37]

well, the good news is that the Broncos look like absolute garbage, so that game may be winnable.

[Dr. Lecter]

Kellen Winslow just did a great Robert Royal impression.

But Royal is cheaper, less injury prone, a better blocker and not a locker room distraction.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's too bad the Brown's D can't stop anyone. They make Buffalo's D look spectacular.

[mybills]

Bills don't have to worry about either of these teams.

[Dr. Lecter]

Bills don't have to worry about either of these teams.

Like they did not worry about Miami?

[patmoran2006]

Cleveland sucks.. DUmb mistakes, dropped passes and NO DEFENSE at all. And I dont know if it was serious, but didn't Shaun Rogers go down tonight?

[RedEyE]

Teams get hot and cold. If Buffalo can pull off a win against the Patsies in NE, the Monday night game verse the Borwns is going to be a lot of fun to watch.

[mybills]

Like they did not worry about Miami?
like....
There's more to worry about with Miami than there is with either of these teams.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's what Chris Collinsworth just said after Brady Quinn threw his second TD to put Cleveland up 17-7.

Plus they have a long week to prepare.

We're in trouble...
LOL!!!! :puke:

Could you lick the Browns balls any harder?

[RockStar36]

like....
There's more to worry about with Miami than there is with either of these teams.

Really?

[RockStar36]

LOL!!!! :puke:

Could you lick the Browns balls any harder?

I don't think it has anything to do with that and has everything to do with the Bills playing on MNF. In case you haven't realized this, anytime the Bills are on national tv they lose in the worst way possible. They should just give up every playing on national tv.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't think it has anything to do with that and has everything to do with the Bills playing on MNF. In case you haven't realized this, anytime the Bills are on national tv they lose in the worst way possible. They should just give up every playing on national tv.
It is OP being happy the Browns looked good (In the first half only) because it backs up his acertion that the Browns will beat us next Monday. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

[Tatonka]

the game was fun to watch because i had the over 46.5, but i saw HUGE holes in both of those team. i hope that denver wins their division because i would feel fine with playing in the playoffs. their defense is one of the worst i have seen in a long time.

jamal lewis hasnt looked so good since 2001. quinn will make rookie mistakes. period. all rookie qbs do.

[HAMMER]

Chicken Little spoke too soon huh.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Chicken Little spoke too soon huh.
:hi5:

[Tatonka]

Chicken Little spoke too soon huh.

:rofl:

nice. i agree.

[trapezeus]

Cleveland sucks.. DUmb mistakes, dropped passes and NO DEFENSE at all. And I dont know if it was serious, but didn't Shaun Rogers go down tonight?

you're talking about cleveland and not buffalo right? if you didn't write cleveland sucks and a comment about shaun rogers you were talking about the bills.

[OpIv37]

Chicken Little spoke too soon huh.

Um, no.

That offense looks damn good, even though they lost. Have you watched our D lately? On top of that, now we have injuries AND we're fighting the pressure of a Monday night game.

We're 0-2 in the division and about to go 0-3. The sky already fell. You just can't take your head out of the sand long enough to look around and notice.

[BillsOwnAll]

Chris collinsworth said it...it must be true.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Um, no.

That offense looks damn good, even though they lost. Have you watched our D lately? On top of that, now we have injuries AND we're fighting the pressure of a Monday night game.

We're 0-2 in the division and about to go 0-3. The sky already fell. You just can't take your head out of the sand long enough to look around and notice.
LOLOLOLOL You must be so happy about this....

[OpIv37]

Chris collinsworth said it...it must be true.

what does it take to please some of you people? Who exactly is credible in your view?

I make a post about something football-related, and people blow it off because I'm not a football expert.

Someone who actually PLAYED NFL football and now follows NFL football as part of his occupation makes a comment and you STILL blow it off.

So, again, go ahead and bury your head in the sand. Assume the comment doesn't mean anything. Ignore all the problems the Bills have. Reality will hit you in the face on Sunday and again next Monday.

[OpIv37]

LOLOLOLOL You must be so happy about this....

um, you're one of the people who complains about my negativity and now you're accusing me of being happy? Make up your mind.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Your happiness towards the Bills losing is seen as negativity to us.

[OpIv37]

Your happiness towards the Bills losing is seen as negativity to us.

show me one post where I ever expressed any happiness at the Bills losing.

In fact, when the Bills lose, I'm even more negative than usual. So just cut the ****.

Btw, I don't even know why you're calling me out on this one because in the injury thread, even you said 5-4 was "looking like a reality."

[THATHURMANATOR]

Its because I am a Realist OP!

[RockStar36]

Um, no.

That offense looks damn good, even though they lost. Have you watched our D lately? On top of that, now we have injuries AND we're fighting the pressure of a Monday night game.

We're 0-2 in the division and about to go 0-3. The sky already fell. You just can't take your head out of the sand long enough to look around and notice.

I'm gonna jump in here to inform you that Kansas City, yes Kansas City, tore up Denver. They have ZERO defense. Did you see them lose 41-7 to New England? Let me put this into perspective for you.

They have let up 14,38,32,33,16,24,41,26,30 so far this season.

Does that strike you as a good defense?

Now are you really surprised that the Browns offense looked good last night?

[OpIv37]

I'm gonna jump in here to inform you that Kansas City, yes Kansas City, tore up Denver. They have ZERO defense. Did you see them lose 41-7 to New England? Let me put this into perspective for you.

They have let up 14,38,32,33,16,24,41,26,30 so far this season.

Does that strike you as a good defense?

Now are you really surprised that the Browns offense looked good last night?

Just to remind you, the Jets, Dolphins and Cardinals tore up our D. if they can do it, so can the Browns

[psubills62]

Just to remind you, the Jets, Dolphins and Cardinals tore up our D. if they can do it, so can the Browns

Could you please define "tore up?" Last I knew, the Jets couldn't get positive yards when they started a drive on our 6 yard-line. Last I knew, the Jets got one offensive touchdown all game, and 201 yards passing (how many did you expect Favre to get again?).

The Dolphins did tear up our defense. But even so, that game was within reach for us until we started the turnover frenzy in the 4th quarter.

You also didn't reply to that poster about Denver's defense...almost every QB that plays Denver's defense has a career day. They were also missing Champ Bailey. The only impressive performance by the Browns has been against the Giants. One game is not a trend. A trend would be Braylon Edwards sucking it up all year except for that one game.

If Favre and Rivers can barely get over 200 yards passing while playing in Buffalo, I SERIOUSLY doubt that Brady Quinn will do that well.

[OpIv37]

Could you please define "tore up?" Last I knew, the Jets couldn't get positive yards when they started a drive on our 6 yard-line. Last I knew, the Jets got one offensive touchdown all game, and 201 yards passing (how many did you expect Favre to get again?).

The Dolphins did tear up our defense. But even so, that game was within reach for us until we started the turnover frenzy in the 4th quarter.

You also didn't reply to that poster about Denver's defense...almost every QB that plays Denver's defense has a career day. They were also missing Champ Bailey. The only impressive performance by the Browns has been against the Giants. One game is not a trend. A trend would be Braylon Edwards sucking it up all year except for that one game.

If Favre and Rivers can barely get over 200 yards passing while playing in Buffalo, I SERIOUSLY doubt that Brady Quinn will do that well.

EIGHT minute drive in the 4th quarter. Let me repeat that. EIGHT MINUTES.

This was after the O dominated ball control in the first half (albeit without scoring), so the D doesn't even have the "we were on the field too long" excuse.

And once again, you're assuming that the Bills are capable of exploiting an opponents' weakness when they have yet to demonstrate that ability. Where were those passing and return yards against the Fish? Where were the sacks against Arizona? Where were the sacks and turnovers against the Jets? So far this season, other teams have consistently and conveniently fixed their problems when playing the Bills.

[Dr. Lecter]

The defense had one bad series, they were hardly torn up. They gave up 16 points.

It should have been better, but torn up is hyperbole.

[OpIv37]

The defense had one bad series, they were hardly torn up. They gave up 16 points.

It should have been better, but torn up is hyperbole.

Argue semantics all you want.

Dolphins still tore up our D. Cardinals absolutely shredded the D, and they run a similar O to the Browns. Even worse, both of those games were before all the injuries.

[Dr. Lecter]

The Dolphins tore them up passing, but did nothing on the ground.

I am not saying the defense has been good, but except for Arizona it has not been awful either.

They are still 10th in yards, 12th in points allowed per game, 6th in 3rd down % and 14th in ToP (with a struggling running game)

So your claims of being torn up all of the time are wrong.

[psubills62]

EIGHT minute drive in the 4th quarter. Let me repeat that. EIGHT MINUTES.

This was after the O dominated ball control in the first half (albeit without scoring), so the D doesn't even have the "we were on the field too long" excuse.

And once again, you're assuming that the Bills are capable of exploiting an opponents' weakness when they have yet to demonstrate that ability. Where were those passing and return yards against the Fish? Where were the sacks against Arizona? Where were the sacks and turnovers against the Jets? So far this season, other teams have consistently and conveniently fixed their problems when playing the Bills.

And again, one drive isn't necessarily being "torn up." You want to talk about torn up? How about Denver getting over 200 yards in the 4th quarter ALONE against the Browns? That's torn up.

It's hard not to exploit a weakness when the entire Denver defense is a weakness. They have been terrible at trying to stop the run and the pass, week after week.

I agree, the Bills haven't necessarily been able to exploit a team's weaknesses. Maybe they're outthinking themselves when they gameplan, I don't know. But I do know that they've been competitive in each of the last two losses, despite having many horrible mistakes in each game. I don't understand how you think they'd play even worse against teams that are significantly worse than the Jets and Dolphins. Edwards got 289 passing yards against the Jets D, we got over 100 yards rushing against the Miami D. How would the Bills not do well against Denver?

And FYI, I wouldn't call Favre throwing a pick-six having "fixed his problem."

[OpIv37]

The Dolphins tore them up passing, but did nothing on the ground.

I am not saying the defense has been good, but except for Arizona it has not been awful either.

They are still 10th in yards, 12th in points allowed per game, 6th in 3rd down % and 14th in ToP (with a struggling running game)

So your claims of being torn up all of the time are wrong.

They were shredded by Ted Ginn Jr, who isn't half the receiver that Braylon Edwards or Kellen Winslow are. They were shredded by a Cardinals' O that's very similar to the Browns' O. And again, that was before the injuries. You can say I'm exaggerating all you want, but the fact remains that the Browns are a VERY bad matchup for us.

[psubills62]

Argue semantics all you want.

Dolphins still tore up our D. Cardinals absolutely shredded the D, and they run a similar O to the Browns. Even worse, both of those games were before all the injuries.

How can you even compare the Browns to the Cardinals? The Browns have Braylon Edwards, who could be a good WR, but has well over 10 drops on the season. They've also got Kellen Winslow, who puts up good stats but drops passes or fumbles at key moments (like Robert Royal). The Cardinals have Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston, which IMO is THE premiere wide receiver corps in the nation.

Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Laughable, actually.

[RockStar36]

WOW...Nice job completely avoiding my point Op. You can't even compare the Bills D to the Broncos D. They aren't even in the same category. Nice spin job.

[Dr. Lecter]

They were shredded by Ted Ginn Jr, who isn't half the receiver that Braylon Edwards or Kellen Winslow are. They were shredded by a Cardinals' O that's very similar to the Browns' O. And again, that was before the injuries. You can say I'm exaggerating all you want, but the fact remains that the Browns are a VERY bad matchup for us.

From what I have seen of them, they are not. No defense. A rookie QB. A TE who has the dropsies. A WR who has the dropsies. They do better airing it out than they do playing it short and quick.

And the point is you are exagerrating by saying the Bills defense has been torn up or shredded in the games you cited (except the Cards)

The numbers and facts dispute those points.

[OpIv37]

How can you even compare the Browns to the Cardinals? The Browns have Braylon Edwards, who could be a good WR, but has well over 10 drops on the season. They've also got Kellen Winslow, who puts up good stats but drops passes or fumbles at key moments (like Robert Royal). The Cardinals have Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston, which IMO is THE premiere wide receiver corps in the nation.

Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Laughable, actually.
do you watch football?

Yes, the Cardinals are more talented than the Browns. But they run a similar offense. Quick slants to big receiving targets and YAC.

You're assuming the Browns won't execute against us. They may, they may not. But the Bills can't count on their opponents' failure to execute. They have to find a way to shut down that style of attack, and so far they haven't.

[RockStar36]

do you watch football?

Yes, the Cardinals are more talented than the Browns. But they run a similar offense. Quick slants to big receiving targets and YAC.

You're assuming the Browns won't execute against us. They may, they may not. But the Bills can't count on their opponents' failure to execute. They have to find a way to shut down that style of attack, and so far they haven't.

And NOW you're comparing Cleveland and Arizona? Really?

The Cardinals have scored 62 more points in 1 less game.

[OpIv37]

WOW...Nice job completely avoiding my point Op. You can't even compare the Bills D to the Broncos D. They aren't even in the same category. Nice spin job.

Your point was that the Broncos' D is bad because it got shredded by a bad team.

My point was that the Bills' D has also played poorly against some pretty mediocre offenses, albeit none quite as bad as KC.

But I didn't avoid your point at all. If the Browns can shred the Broncos' D, they can shred our D. You can go ahead and keep believing that this D is better than it is, but they have SERIOUS problems, especially with all the injuries.

[OpIv37]

And NOW you're comparing Cleveland and Arizona? Really?

The Cardinals have scored 62 more points in 1 less game.

Can you even ****ing READ?

I said the Cards are more talented, duh.

The STYLE is similar and it's a bad matchup for us. Did you WATCH the Bills/Cards game? Damn, you people have tunnel vision sometimes.

[Dr. Lecter]

Damn, you people have tunnel vision sometimes.

lol.

[RockStar36]

Your point was that the Broncos' D is bad because it got shredded by a bad team.

My point was that the Bills' D has also played poorly against some pretty mediocre offenses, albeit none quite as bad as KC.

But I didn't avoid your point at all. If the Browns can shred the Broncos' D, they can shred our D. You can go ahead and keep believing that this D is better than it is, but they have SERIOUS problems, especially with all the injuries.

Gotcha. I expect Cassel to completely dominate on Sunday. At least 3 TDs and at least a 30 point win margin for NE.

[RockStar36]

Can you even ****ing READ?

I said the Cards are more talented, duh.

The STYLE is similar and it's a bad matchup for us. Did you WATCH the Bills/Cards game? Damn, you people have tunnel vision sometimes.

Yeah, I've watched every single Bills game. The Bills defense was pretty bad. But they are nowhere near as bad as Denver. And Cleveland is nowhere near as good as Arizona. Similar styles doesn't mean **** when the talent isn't the same.

[psubills62]

do you watch football?

Yes, the Cardinals are more talented than the Browns. But they run a similar offense. Quick slants to big receiving targets and YAC.

You're assuming the Browns won't execute against us. They may, they may not. But the Bills can't count on their opponents' failure to execute. They have to find a way to shut down that style of attack, and so far they haven't.

There's a reason I'm assuming the Browns won't execute, because they've barely been able to all year.

OK, so the level of talent suddenly doesn't matter? Just because they run the same style of offense doesn't mean they're as good at running it as the Cardinals are.

And again, how will Quinn do so well when Rivers and Favre come in and barely scratch 200 passing yards?

So going from allowing Pennington to get 300+ yards with mediocre WR's to allowing Favre to get 201 yards with very solid WR's in Coles and Cotchery means they haven't done ANYTHING to stop that kind of passing game?

[OpIv37]

Yeah, I've watched every single Bills game. The Bills defense was pretty bad. But they are nowhere near as bad as Denver. And Cleveland is nowhere near as good as Arizona. Similar styles doesn't mean **** when the talent isn't the same.

It means a LOT when the Bills have no ability to stop it.

[Dr. Lecter]

It means a LOT when the Bills have no ability to stop it.

And when Edwards and Winslow drop the passes?

Or the Browns defense lets Evans get 20 yards past any defender?

[evol4276]

lol i think some people on here just thrive to make you feel like a douche every time you post something op. however they still are a tough team, and while it will NOT be a gimme game on monday (especially since as long as i can remember this team has never won when I have been able to watch them on tv) this should still be a fun game to watch. i just hope to hell they can get rid of the mistakes and get the running game going, otherwise our offense will be a less deadly Denver offense.

[Mr. Pink]

If they were the Browns of last year, they wouldn't be 3-6...

[evol4276]

If they were the Browns of last year, they wouldn't be 3-6... theey like to show up on primetime. well kinda.

[OpIv37]

There's a reason I'm assuming the Browns won't execute, because they've barely been able to all year.

OK, so the level of talent suddenly doesn't matter? Just because they run the same style of offense doesn't mean they're as good at running it as the Cardinals are.

And again, how will Quinn do so well when Rivers and Favre come in and barely scratch 200 passing yards?

So going from allowing Pennington to get 300+ yards with mediocre WR's to allowing Favre to get 201 yards with very solid WR's in Coles and Cotchery means they haven't done ANYTHING to stop that kind of passing game?

We're no good at stopping it. All the Browns have to do is be mediocre and they'll be able to beat us. They've shown flashes of being better than mediocre. And you're obsessed with Favre's passing yards but you're forgetting one very important thing: his team still WON. Teams have lit up our pass D and other teams have beaten us without throwing the ball all that well.

[psubills62]

Your point was that the Broncos' D is bad because it got shredded by a bad team.

My point was that the Bills' D has also played poorly against some pretty mediocre offenses, albeit none quite as bad as KC.

But I didn't avoid your point at all. If the Browns can shred the Broncos' D, they can shred our D. You can go ahead and keep believing that this D is better than it is, but they have SERIOUS problems, especially with all the injuries.

LOL

Buffalo Bills: allowing 202.8 ypg passing, with opponents' passer rating of 83.8
Denver Broncos: allowing 242.8 ypg passing, with opponents' passer rating of 103.2.

And that's WITH the Broncos getting 1.5 times the number of sacks that the Bills have. Yet the opponents' passer rating is 20 points higher than the QB's that the Bills play? Yeah, real comparable defenses.

[RockStar36]

It means a LOT when the Bills have no ability to stop it.

It's a sad day when a Bills fan is actually scared to face the Browns offense. I've seen enough Browns games this year to know what they are bringing to the table.

[OpIv37]

And when Edwards and Winslow drop the passes?

Or the Browns defense lets Evans get 20 yards past any defender?

The Bills can't assume the Browns are going to make those mistakes. Why is it that people here think the Bills can protect the ball better and block better and correct all the mistakes they've been making, but other teams can't?

[RockStar36]

We're no good at stopping it. All the Browns have to do is be mediocre and they'll be able to beat us. They've shown flashes of being better than mediocre. And you're obsessed with Favre's passing yards but you're forgetting one very important thing: his team still WON. Teams have lit up our pass D and other teams have beaten us without throwing the ball all that well.

The Jets won because of the Bills lack of a running game and Edwards turning into Captain Turnover. Are we assuming those two things will stay the same on MNF?

BTW, why the hell are we discussing a Monday night game when they play NE this Sunday?

[OpIv37]

It's a sad day when a Bills fan is actually scared to face the Browns offense. I've seen enough Browns games this year to know what they are bringing to the table.

that's how little confidence I have in this team right now. They've been bad all year and it took 4 games for it to catch up with them.

[OpIv37]

The Jets won because of the Bills lack of a running game and Edwards turning into Captain Turnover. Are we assuming those two things will stay the same on MNF?

BTW, why the hell are we discussing a Monday night game when they play NE this Sunday?

In a Monday Night game, hell yes. Given the way the Bills have played historically in night games and the way this specific Bills team played in night games last year, it's hardly the time to try to fix problems.

We're discussing it because the NE game is practically a loss already.

[psubills62]

We're no good at stopping it. All the Browns have to do is be mediocre and they'll be able to beat us. They've shown flashes of being better than mediocre. And you're obsessed with Favre's passing yards but you're forgetting one very important thing: his team still WON. Teams have lit up our pass D and other teams have beaten us without throwing the ball all that well.

No, the Bills beat themselves in that game.

You're completely changing the point. I am obsessed with Favre's passing yards because that's what we're arguing about - the Bills pass defense. We're not arguing whether teams beat us or not. Fact is, they pretty much stopped Favre from passing all that well, yet you think Brady Quinn will waltz in and toss it all over our D.

The Bills CAN stop the passing game, whether you like it or not. They haven't been able to stop it two times: against Arizona and Miami. Two games don't make a trend.

[RockStar36]

that's how little confidence I have in this team right now. They've been bad all year and it took 4 games for it to catch up with them.

Well that is nothing new. I don't think you've ever had confidence in them. For the record though, the Browns have been disgusting this year on every side of the ball. This move to Brady Quinn was just RC's way of saving his job, which won't happen.

[OpIv37]

No, the Bills beat themselves in that game.

You're completely changing the point. I am obsessed with Favre's passing yards because that's what we're arguing about - the Bills pass defense. We're not arguing whether teams beat us or not. Fact is, they pretty much stopped Favre from passing all that well, yet you think Brady Quinn will waltz in and toss it all over our D.

The Bills CAN stop the passing game, whether you like it or not. They haven't been able to stop it two times: against Arizona and Miami. Two games don't make a trend.


Quinn waltzed in and tossed it all over the Broncos' D. The Bills stopped the Jets passing game and STILL lost. They CAN stop the passing game but they don't always, and even when they do they can still lose. You're assuming they won't beat themselves again. Remind me what happened in our last Monday Night game? Right, the D created 6 turnovers and we led the game for 59:58 and STILL lost.

[RockStar36]

This wouldn't have anything to do with your man love for Brady Quinn, would it Op?

[Dr. Lecter]

The Bills can't assume the Browns are going to make those mistakes. Why is it that people here think the Bills can protect the ball better and block better and correct all the mistakes they've been making, but other teams can't?

For the same reason you assume the Bills are going to make the same mistakes.

You always assume the Bills negatives continue while the other team's negatives will stop.

[psubills62]

Quinn waltzed in and tossed it all over the Broncos' D. The Bills stopped the Jets passing game and STILL lost. They CAN stop the passing game but they don't always, and even when they do they can still lose. You're assuming they won't beat themselves again. Remind me what happened in our last Monday Night game? Right, the D created 6 turnovers and we led the game for 59:58 and STILL lost.

That was last year's team. This time, we're the team turning the ball over a LOT. I was disappointed they had 3 turnovers against the Jets. This is not typical of Bills football, and I expect it to stop. It's happened in two games out of seven so far (for Edwards, that is) and it's something that is correctable.

I'm not assuming they won't beat themselves again. I'm simply challenging your assumption that Quinn will come into the Ralph and toss it all over the field. Heck, the Bills could lose that game. But I still maintain that Quinn will not do very well throwing the ball against our defense.

[psubills62]

For the same reason you assume the Bills are going to make the same mistakes.

You always assume the Bills negatives continue while the other team's negatives will stop.

:clap: Well said.

[OpIv37]

For the same reason you assume the Bills are going to make the same mistakes.

You always assume the Bills negatives continue while the other team's negatives will stop.

Because other team's negatives DO stop against the Bills. Where were the return yards against Miami? Or the passing yards? Where were the sacks against Arizona? I don't know why this happens but it does and it happens consistently.

[Ed]

Op,
You may not think much of the Bills right now, but if you were a Broncos or Browns fan right now you would think even less of your team. Browns are 3-6. Broncos should be 3-6. Both of these teams are garbage.