An idea for RB situation

[Judge]

I haven't been around much lately- here's a salvo for discussion:

Some may recall that I've never been a big Travis Henry fan. He had a solid year last season, but the fumbling problems were significant and have been given a little revisionist history in the media lately. He'd be fine IF he can hold on to the ball- that's a gigantic IF though, as he's fumbled alot over the 2 seasons here.

Drafting McGahee tells me that Henry's out of here no matter what if McGahee is truly healthy. Either Henry fizzles this year and is shipped or waived, or he shines this year and is traded for a big-time #1 draft choice.

For the fun of it, here's my thought: let's trade Henry now! We've got Olandis Gary to mind the store until McGahee is ready to play every down. A Henry/McGahee tandem would never work b/c both guys need alot of carries. Why not get rid of Henry now before he could permanently derail his career with fumbilitis? Gary could do well as a starter on this team for 1 season- he was arguably a legit starter in Denver.

[Dozerdog]

No way.


Biggest risk without the best return. Next year will be a deep draft, but for the third season in a row very weak in RB's. No significant FA running backs out there either.

Gary has had significant injuries the past 2-3 seasons and has not proven he wasn't a 1 year wonder.

McGahee is not recovered.

Henry - fumbler but at this point, our only proven run threat.


I just don't see the advantages of trading him right now. We gain nothing by dropping Henry here. If we get a #1 or more from people, we still can't use it for 12 months. Get miles of of TH, than do it 11 months from now. Or keep both. Denver prooved the value of depth at Running back the past few seasons.

[LABillsFan]

You know what Judge, the day of the draft I posted a thread that asked if people were confident with the backfield if it consisted of Gash, Gary, Crosby, Morris and throw in Simonton for the same reason you stated above. All I got was a few bitter responses about how I left out our "Pro bowl" RB. Pro bowl because Holmes was down with an injury. I asked because it is a possibility but some don't want to hear it. I like Henry but from day one was not convinced he is a RB that can be relied on. I would say go for it and let the experience of Gary and Gash head the backfield.

[Dozerdog]

My only question to you would be-


For what? Forget who for the moment- What would we trade Henry for? Draft picks? Why lose his services for the season if we can't draft again until after the season?

[Brian H]

While were at it let's trade Bledsoe as well.Hey what the hell why not?

[LABillsFan]

Bonly???? Do you mean dog bonly? :D If, I repeat If there was enough confidence in the backfield w/o Henry, I'd like to see at least a 1st. round pick. The Bills could be and should be a playoff team next year which means a low roulnd 1st pick again. It would be nice to have 2 picks and be able to grab another big play maker. If The coaching staff doesn't feel that there would be enough production w/o Henry then waiting a year may be the only thing they can do.

[LABillsFan]

If we had Steve Young in the wings maybe.

[Dozerdog]

I agree on the pick we get- I just don't agree giving Henry away now.

Why let someone else use him while McG recovers? Get another 1200 yards 12 TDs out of him then ship him off.

[LABillsFan]

For all we know he could come on like gang busters this year, It's just one possibility. It's just that WM has the "intangebles" that TH doesn't seem to have. I think TH would fit in with straight forward offenses. The Bills have a dynamic O that could use a faster RB with better hands.

[Dozerdog]

He being McGahee? The Bills will take a very cautious approach.

There will not be any rush to get him on the field.

Even if McG defies all th odds and does play..... again, why would you let someone else use him for the year? If we trade him now for a #1 or later, for the SAME #1? If anything, he makes a team better, thus dropping said #1 pick deeper into the draft. it just does not make sense to me to trade TH for anything now unless you get immediate impact help.....

[Tatonka]

they would never ever trade henry before the season.. and why give another team his services for this season, like doz said.. for example..

say we trade him to the texans.. imho.. henry could help them win at least 3 more games.. if not more.. they have a strong d, a good young qb, have been working on their line, and obviously have good young wrs.. they could be a good team.. so we get their first rounder, which would end up being lower than if we keep henry for the season, and then they get him when it is over.

see my point?

[LABillsFan]

Even if the Bills wait, there is a chance TH will help that team win 3 more games. I don't think TD would trade TH just for the sake of getting another draft choice. It would have to be for the right price and to the right team. If NE wanted TH I really don't think TD would make that trade, if lets say ARZ or CAR possibly. It's all a guessing game right now.

[LABillsFan]

He being Henry.

[Billz_fan]

If we let Henry go now just as the Bills are supposedly going to a more run oriented offense this season would be offensive suicide IMO.

No way you let a 1400 yard rusher go just as you are slanting your offense towards the run.

[Typ0]

I am pretty much on the same page as you guys but I think we have to open up the scope of our thought a little bit. What I mean by that is we are here analyzing the current situation and trying to say this is what is going to happen. TD is a good GM. He wakes up every day and asks himself "what can I do to make the team better today". This is the beauty of the McGahee pick. The fans are all pumped up about the team and with good reason. But the reality is we have a lot of maybe's in key areas that really won't be ferreted out until we start to move towards the season how they will perform. Some players are going to work out and some are not as far as the if's go and we aren't going to know until we get closer to game situations. So come the second and third week of pre-season the staff is going to be looking at a few areas of the team and really seeing where another player may make a big difference. Additionally, they are going to be looking to see if Henry has learned that lesson about the extra half a yard at the end of the play. It's going to be clearer to the staff if he has learned that lesson by this time. If he hasn't they are going to be looking at him as someone who is going to shorten their career with that effort; be a bigger risk for short term injuries and be a bigger risk for the fumble.

This is where I can see a possibility they may pull the trigger on a trade with Henry before next season--but there is still only a small possibility this will happen. The following things would have to fall into place I think:

1) Henry did not learn the aforementioned lesson. If he learns that lesson, I don't see them ever trading him--he will ride out his contract. Because he will have learned the differnce between when that half a yard was important and when it could wait until the next play, he will be a back that can be put on the field in third and short or inside the five yard line and pound the ball forward. That is invaluable and with some offensive line maturity he has the ability to be one of the best in the league.

2) McGahee is ready to play. I think there is a good chance this can happen. I think in McGahee's mind this is going to happen. This is something that can make it happen.

3) There is a win-win trade available that we can't pass up. Another team has their first string back get injured in camp and they are deep in one of our if areas that isn't working out. We point out to them what you guys said about Henry dropping the stock of their draft picks. We get a player that will help us in our if area right now...and we get their first round draft pick in the following season. We would have two first rounders and be able to easily trade up to get a player we really wanted or get two excellent players later in the round.

Pretty unlikely, but let's not rule it out until we start to see how the cards are falling as the season approaches. I think those three points are not all that far fetched. If McGahee is anything near what people are saying he can be we can slant out team towards the run if he is our back.

[DraftBoy]

Nicely said Typ0, I agree with you on all point, but Im worried about Henry,a nd McGahee pushing each other too hard. I see Henry trying so hard to be the best NFL back he gets frustrated and makes stupid mistakes, and does not correct his problems. Whil I also worry that McGahee will over rehab his knee too much too soon and reinjure it or possibly set him back months in rehab. All possible situations, but to go back to the question from the original post. I can say that I would have so sort of faith in a backfield led by Olandis Gary. If we did not have TH.

[ublinkwescore]

You guys are sick. You seem to forget that while Henry did have a fumbling problem, he also found the endzone 14 times. I say we keep him and McGahee next year, and say sayonara to Gary if we have to get rid of someone in our backfield. Henry because he's proven to be able to stay healthy, and because he's proven himself in my opinion. During our 3-13 season, I knew he was going to be a good back in this league - this is the same Running back that made Jamal Lewis leave Tennessee early out of fear of getting benched in favor of Henry.

Henry isn't going anywhere - that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[The_Philster]

No way do we trade away Henry this year. Olandis Gary as our starter with Sammy Morris and Joe Burns backing him up does not give me a good feeling.

[Throne Logic]

I really love how some folks have WM's path to the Hall-Of-Fame paved in stone. Not only has he never played a down, he's currently not physically able to play a down.

Henry is a lock to Buffalo's starter this season. Furthermore, I see him as a lock to be the starter next season, also. The only way this doesn't happen, is if Henry shoots himself in the foot with bad play, or if he gets seriously injured.

If WM can even play this year, is still in question. Now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt concerning his rehab and say he'll be ready to go mid-season. Remember, he's not going to be fighting for playing time with Henry. Nope, he's going to be fighting for playing time with Gary. If WM can prove he's a better back than Gary in the 2 or 3 carries per game he gets, than all the power to him. But it won't happen. WM won't get the consistant reps with the first team until next off-season. Then, assuming he's worked himself ahead of Gary leading into the 2004 regular season (I think he will), he'll still have to proove that he's a better option than Henry, while getting 5 - 10 carries per game.

If Henry puts up 1500 yards on the ground and 400 via the air, there is no way GW replaces him with an unproven back, I don't care what that back's name is.

Again, the only way WM gets any serious playing time over the next two seasons is if Henry doesn't play well.

Going into 2005 is when I see this truly becoming an issue. I don't care where he was picked, how much he gets paid, or what his name is. It just doesn't make good football sense any other way.

And if some of you start rooting for Henry to get injured so that WM gets his chance earlier, I'm going to be sick.

[Dozerdog]

I really don't think it wil get to that.

Unlike a QB controversy, you can pull a RB any time and substitute another without destroying continuity. QB's are different because they run the offense, and there are timing issues with Receivers, the snap, hand offs, reading defenses, and the general complexity of the job.

If Travis struggles in a game, yank him- Denver had no problems with that approach with Gary, Anderson. Portis, and to an extent, Davis. Their running attack never suffered to much from competition.

[Typ0]

Like I said you guys are looking at things in terms of Henry is this and WM is that. The people who are looking at the big picture are asking the question "when faced with ten different choices which choice best benefits the team". That is the difference between the way you and I are looking at it. You have closed down some options because you see Henry as this and WM as that. Things are not this or that. They have to be continually evaluated. The thiss and the thats are constantly being flushed out and exposed.

[BillsOwnAll]

are you crazy?!? willis isnt a definite starter for next year he might never play again we dont know yet.. so dont assume and trade a probowl RB for something we cant use this year...if Wills gets hurt then we would be screwed with only gary who has been know for injuries..and about this fumbleing thing..if you did research youd find alot of the ALL-Starts like baryy sanders had a fumbleing problem there first year as a starter. i mean do you not think he worked on that over the off season im not worried about it at all..

p.s not sure if sanders had that problem i just used his name but i remember watching SC and they said a bunch of people who had that problem.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Throne Logic
IAnd if some of you start rooting for Henry to get injured so that WM gets his chance earlier, I'm going to be sick.

You know what's scary? If McGahee is able to play late in the season, that's exactly what I expect some to do. It happened a few years ago with Flutie/RJ

[Typ0]

But the situation with WM will become more apparent as time goes on. What does it matter if TH is a probowl RB...the best back that ever lived if we can't get to the superbowl with him because we were too stubborn to trade him away because we needed help at DE or LB? I see what you guys are saying but there comes a point you have to evaluate the returns on what you are doing like Dozer was saying. What good is it to us to have the best receiving tandem in the league if it costs us so much we can't stop the other offense on a third and short?

[Typ0]

Phil that is because Futile is a midget jerk who lobbied to the public for those reactions.

[HenryRules]

I agree Typ0, the Flutie/RJ is the exception rather than the rule for competition for starting jobs at most NFL locations. However, IMO, the problem was not either of the players (not that they helped the situation) but the fact that the organization never said which player was the starter. That created confusion on the team which allowed Flutie's actions to create the disruption.

The coaching staff has been clear so far that Henry is the starter and they don't expect to get much, if anything, from McGahee this year.

Also, fans do not cause much distraction to the players IMO. I remember near the end of Kelly's career when there was a significant amount of fans calling for Reich to be the starter. That didn't create much tension in the team, if I recall correctly. As long as the staff and front office handle this properly, there's no reason to expect that a problem will develop.

[Typ0]

You are right HenryRules. They failed to tell Futile he was a second rate midget looser so things got out of hand.

[The Natrix]

All I know is we have Gary, Henry and Willis on the roster. I really don't see how a Bills fan who knows anything about football could have a problem with this.

Good point Dozer about the platoon working well in Denver.

Just be happy it isn't the feared 1-2-3 punch of A. Smith, Derrick Holmes and Sammy Morris.

[Typ0]

I don't have a problem with it at all. I love it. I'm just saying if the team is better overall with a different configuration I don't see how a bills fan can be oblivious to that just so we can have several above average backs on the team. That's a "lets sell tickets attitude" as opposed to a "let's win a superbowl attitude" as far as I'm concerned. The objective is to make the team the most competetive it can be given the parameters not to make one position the strongest on the field.

[buffaloscott]

Whatever it seems a pretty sweet spot to be in.But don't forget Garys' injurys,and the fact that TD just exstended TH at a yard sale price.Give TH a chance WG just might be the slap in the face he needs to wake up and work harder on his fumblitis.Then who knows???But it sure is fun to watch!!!

[BillsOwnAll]

good point why are people mad we have so many good guys....jeez i think TD knows what hes doing with this one..:pray:

[Bert102176]

Bledsoe and Henry for Donovan McNabb:drunks:

[Bert102176]

that is the only trade I would trde them for other than that I really like Henry, and well Bledsoe is ok.

[lordofgun]

Sorry, but there's no way I want to go into this season with Olandis Gary as our starter. NO WAY!

[Earthquake Enyart]

TD will wait until late in training camp. He will know by then if McG will be able to play this year. Then, if a NFC condender has a back blow his knee out, TD can rob them. :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

Henry is our best rb. Although the bills winning the SB this year is far fetched, we have a better chance with Henry than Gary.

Let's worry about next year, next year.