Answer this question for me...

[Nighthawk]

...is there one player who has grown or developed under this coaching staff? Seriously, I can't think of one player who has improved since Jauron & Co. have been running the show. That, to me, speaks volumes of what trouble we are in if we keep this guy around.

[DraftBoy]

Fred Jackson

[DraftBoy]

Brad Butler
Jabari Greer
Trent Edwards
Kyle Williams

I could keep going but I think you get the point.

[gr8slayer]

Brad Butler
Jabari Greer
Trent Edwards
Kyle Williams

I could keep going but I think you get the point.
All less than average players :bf1:

[raphael120]

All less than average players :bf1:

Too bad our first round/2nd round picks aren't playing like they should...you know...the important players that the whole teams future is relying on.

[DraftBoy]

All less than average players :bf1:


Not the point though, he simply asked for somebody to show him players that have improved. One could even make an argument for Terrance McGee, Donte Whitner, Poz, Jason Peters, and Aaron Schobel.

Nighthawk simply wants to lay all the blame at the coaches feet and refuses to accept the fact that we do in fact have less than superior talent. He'd rather find more excuses to blame others than blaming the players for lack of execution of simple plays.

[DraftBoy]

Too bad our first round/2nd round picks aren't playing like they should...you know...the important players that the whole teams future is relying on.

McKelvin and Hardy are playing well up to expectations, just because some fans don't know what realistic expectations are, doesn't mean they aren't playing like they should be.

[Mahdi]

All less than average players :bf1:
None of those players are less than average.

Greer is certainly, without argument an above average CB.

Williams has established himself as a very solid DT.

Edwards, although not lately, has shown that he can play at a high level. Certainly not below average QB. He has led us to a winning record thus far.

Butler is at the very least an average guard. Good at pass pro, decent but not special as a run blocker. That would make him average.


Just because we are losing it doesnt take away from what those players are individually.


Now if you want to say Kelsay and Denney and Fowler are below average then you have an argument.

[OpIv37]

Brad Butler
Jabari Greer
Trent Edwards
Kyle Williams

I could keep going but I think you get the point.

Agree on Greer and Williams.

Jury's still out on Edwards.

Butler sucks.

[gr8slayer]

None of those players are less than average.

Greer is certainly, without argument an above average CB.

Williams has established himself as a very solid DT.

Edwards, although not lately, has shown that he can play at a high level. Certainly not below average QB. He has led us to a winning record thus far.

Butler is at the very least an average guard. Good at pass pro, decent but not special as a run blocker. That would make him average.


Just because we are losing it doesnt take away from what those players are individually.


Now if you want to say Kelsay and Denney and Fowler are below average then you have an argument.
Greer is the only player mentioned that I would take on my team. The rest of them are average-below and are easily replaced.

[Mahdi]

Greer is the only player mentioned that I would take on my team. The rest of them are average-below and are easily replaced.
Our run defense has been pretty good and Kyle Williams has been a big part of that. The only reason our run D sits in 15th spot is because teams have been running the football on us late in games after our D has been on the field most of the game.

Still we only allow 3.7 ypc.

[RockStar36]

Greer is playing good but I have to wonder where he would stand on another team. Would he even be starting on Tennessee or the Giants?

[shelby]

Two words: Ashton Youboty.

Too bad he's on IR.

[psubills62]

Greer is playing good but I have to wonder where he would stand on another team. Would he even be starting on Tennessee or the Giants?

Giants? Sure he would. They've got a good number of decent corners, but I'd say Greer is better than all of them right now, imo.

[psubills62]

Two words: Ashton Youboty.

Too bad he's on IR.

Nice one, I was actually thinking about how Corner did pretty well this game, but Youboty is the best example by far.

[Mahdi]

Greer is playing good but I have to wonder where he would stand on another team. Would he even be starting on Tennessee or the Giants?
Suddenly Tennessee and the Giants have great CBs?

The corners on those teams have the 2 best DL in the league. They have the luxury of jumping routes and making plays on hurried throws. Greer has all-world Ryan Denney and Chris Kelsay.

[Nighthawk]

Not the point though, he simply asked for somebody to show him players that have improved. One could even make an argument for Terrance McGee, Donte Whitner, Poz, Jason Peters, and Aaron Schobel.

Nighthawk simply wants to lay all the blame at the coaches feet and refuses to accept the fact that we do in fact have less than superior talent. He'd rather find more excuses to blame others than blaming the players for lack of execution of simple plays.

Draftboy, you know what kills me about you? You think you are smarter then you really are. Seriously, get over yourself.

[Nighthawk]

Greer is playing good but I have to wonder where he would stand on another team. Would he even be starting on Tennessee or the Giants?

That's my point. If people would stop defending this guy and just see it for what it really is, then maybe the problem can be solved. The only way for Dickey to go away is for everybody to show their displeasure for him.

[Nighthawk]

Agree on Greer and Williams.

Jury's still out on Edwards.

Butler sucks.

I really can't say that Williams has improved. I'll give you Greer, but would he even make another team's roster? Maybe as a nickle corner.

[X-Era]

...is there one player who has grown or developed under this coaching staff? Seriously, I can't think of one player who has improved since Jauron & Co. have been running the show. That, to me, speaks volumes of what trouble we are in if we keep this guy around.

Hmmm, maybe a guy named Trent Edwards? Whitner? Poz?

[evol4276]

reed
mcgee
jabari
i'd say youboty but that doesnt really count

[X-Era]

All less than average players :bf1:

Jabari Greer is less than average? :roflmao:

At worst hes average.

Trent is at worst average too.

[Nighthawk]

Hmmm, maybe a guy named Trent Edwards? Whitner? Poz?

Has Edwards improved? Really, really? Whitner has regressed and never makes any plays. Poz is good, but he hasn't become the superstar that everybody expected out of college, so I'm not sure that he would fall under the "has improved" category.

[EDS]

Suddenly Tennessee and the Giants have great CBs?

The corners on those teams have the 2 best DL in the league. They have the luxury of jumping routes and making plays on hurried throws. Greer has all-world Ryan Denney and Chris Kelsay.

I would argue that Finnigan is a better CB then anyone on the Bills by a long shot.

Also, at least with respect to Tennessee, they have one great d-lineman (Haynesworth) and a bunch of solid guys.

[Nighthawk]

Jabari Greer is less than average? :roflmao:

At worst hes average.

Trent is at worst average too.

Trent needs help and he is not getting it from this staff. Greer is average, at best and only looks better because this team has no other CB's ready to play. I like Greer, but let's not make him out to be more then he is...a nice player.

[X-Era]

McKelvin and Hardy are playing well up to expectations, just because some fans don't know what realistic expectations are, doesn't mean they aren't playing like they should be.

Thats actually a shot at me, although you may not have intended it. And Im thinking your actually right.

Marv used to say the best rookies are last years rookies and that what we SHOULD probably be expecting. However, when you run cash to cap, you place huge pressure on your drafts to get better. I guess Im guilty of feeling like I should expect the kinds of returns that we got from the 07 draft... its probably not realistic.

[DraftBoy]

Draftboy, you know what kills me about you? You think you are smarter then you really are. Seriously, get over yourself.

You ask stupid questions what kind of answers do you expect to get? We all know you're MO you come around and ***** and moan about the administration with no real ideas about what would actually work (yes we've heard to ad nauseum, your fascination with blitzing as a team that is ill equipped to do so). So what kind of responses do you think you're going to get.

Let me tell you a little secret which could of saved you the time of typing this out. As players get older some naturally get better, there bodies develop more to the rigours of the NFL, thier minds catch up with the speed. So regardless of if the coaching staff if awesome or not, the players are going to improve even if its from sucking to sucking less. Do you see the flaw in the question you asked now?

What you should of asked, is what young player has DJ and Co, developed into a team leader and difference maker on the field. Then you'd have a few varied responses but nothing solid to prove you wrong. Which obviously has happened here.

So while I may need to get over myself (depends on who you ask, not that I really would listen anyways). You need to use a little more common sense when issuing a challenge for people to answer to try and prove your point about how the current coaching staff needs to go. Just a little helpful reminder! :up:

[DraftBoy]

Thats actually a shot at me, although you may not have intended it. And Im thinking your actually right.

Marv used to say the best rookies are last years rookies and that what we SHOULD probably be expecting. However, when you run cash to cap, you place huge pressure on your drafts to get better. I guess Im guilty of feeling like I should expect the kinds of returns that we got from the 07 draft... its probably not realistic.


Not a shot at anybody, before the season began there was a thread about rookie expectations and some of the expectations were absolutely ridiculous and impossible for these guys to fulfill. McKelvin and Hardy were project picks taken as high as they were because of their ceiling not because of their current abilities.

[X-Era]

Has Edwards improved? Really, really? Whitner has regressed and never makes any plays. Poz is good, but he hasn't become the superstar that everybody expected out of college, so I'm not sure that he would fall under the "has improved" category.

Edwards could not go 4 and 0 last year IMO. He has had 3 bad games, but many players cough-Favre-cough have bad games, even a series of them, even an entire bad year.

Edwards is better this year than last year, and last year he was a rookie, that says a TON about this staff. Hes an average to good starting QB at this point.

[X-Era]

Trent needs help and he is not getting it from this staff. Greer is average, at best and only looks better because this team has no other CB's ready to play. I like Greer, but let's not make him out to be more then he is...a nice player.

No, Greer is a very solid CB, hes not a superstar but he held up very well against TO and Moss last year and has made big plays for us this year. INT for a TD for one.

We should do everything we can to resign him. Id love for McKelvin to have to beat him for the starting job rather than getting it by default. Again, Greer is FAR from our problem.

[Nighthawk]

You ask stupid questions what kind of answers do you expect to get? We all know you're MO you come around and ***** and moan about the administration with no real ideas about what would actually work (yes we've heard to ad nauseum, your fascination with blitzing as a team that is ill equipped to do so). So what kind of responses do you think you're going to get.

Let me tell you a little secret which could of saved you the time of typing this out. As players get older some naturally get better, there bodies develop more to the rigours of the NFL, thier minds catch up with the speed. So regardless of if the coaching staff if awesome or not, the players are going to improve even if its from sucking to sucking less. Do you see the flaw in the question you asked now?

What you should of asked, is what young player has DJ and Co, developed into a team leader and difference maker on the field. Then you'd have a few varied responses but nothing solid to prove you wrong. Which obviously has happened here.

So while I may need to get over myself (depends on who you ask, not that I really would listen anyways). You need to use a little more common sense when issuing a challenge for people to answer to try and prove your point about how the current coaching staff needs to go. Just a little helpful reminder! :up:

Seriously, how old are you...12? The nonsense you write is hilarious. You try to write these all encompassing responses to make yourself look more intelligent then other people, but in reality are really not saying anything different then the rest of us. It's OK, but don't expect me to kiss your ass because you call yourself Draftboy. Let me say this one more time...you're not more knowledgable then me, just because you play to the posters on this board. My opinion might not be a popular one, but I don't care. I will continue to post my thoughts and I will continue to question what I believe is the biggest problem with this team. This is a place to *****, complain, share thoughts, give credit, and applaud what are favorite teams do or don't do. I don't care what your name is or how long you've posted here, you don't rule the board.

[Nighthawk]

Not a shot at anybody, before the season began there was a thread about rookie expectations and some of the expectations were absolutely ridiculous and impossible for these guys to fulfill. McKelvin and Hardy were project picks taken as high as they were because of their ceiling not because of their current abilities.

Wrong and right. McKelvin WAS drafted because he was deemed the CB who was most polished and ready to play immediately. Hardy on the other hand was a project pick who needed work.

[DraftBoy]

Wrong and right. McKelvin WAS drafted because he was deemed the CB who was most polished and ready to play immediately. Hardy on the other hand was a project pick who needed work.


:rofl: No he wasn't but you keep on thinking that. That's like saying DRC was picked in Round 1 because he was ready too. Come on dude, seriously, you gotta just let that one go, because you are way out of your league here.

[Nighthawk]

:rofl: No he wasn't but you keep on thinking that. That's like saying DRC was picked in Round 1 because he was ready too. Come on dude, seriously, you gotta just let that one go, because you are way out of your league here.

Ok, I think you're a fraud and really clueless, but hey, that's me. Do your thing, make yourself feel like your football intelligent and we'll agree to disagree.

[DraftBoy]

Seriously, how old are you...12? The nonsense you write is hilarious. You try to write these all encompassing responses to make yourself look more intelligent then other people, but in reality are really not saying anything different then the rest of us. It's OK, but don't expect me to kiss your ass because you call yourself Draftboy. Let me say this one more time...you're not more knowledgable then me, just because you play to the posters on this board. My opinion might not be a popular one, but I don't care. I will continue to post my thoughts and I will continue to question what I believe is the biggest problem with this team. This is a place to *****, complain, share thoughts, give credit, and applaud what are favorite teams do or don't do. I don't care what your name is or how long you've posted here, you don't rule the board.


Im actually closer to 8 maturity wise, but I dont know exactly how that factors into my actual age...Ive never been a good math guy, I ll have to get back to you on that one.

I dont really try to make myself look more intelligent, its just kinda comes naturally at this point, but I mean what can you do? Some call it a gift, what can I do?

I dont want you anywhere near my ass thank you very much, and I dont call myself anything. This name was bestowed upon me, it was not of my own choosing. At least gets your facts correct, jeez!

Im not going to get into a who is more knowledgable debate, because well...its kind of childish...then again I am about 12 or so so what the hell! Im smarter than you, do you want to counter now with "nu-huh Im smarter" or would you like to go down even further and say your Dad was smarter than my Dad? I mean there is no telling how immature we could get! You game??

Who the hell is talking about popularity, where did that whole last section even come from? Nobody asked you to leave, simply pointing out a fatal flaw in the question you asked. No more and no less, no need to get dramatic about it.

[DraftBoy]

Ok, I think you're a fraud and really clueless, but hey, that's me. Do your thing, make yourself feel like your football intelligent and we'll agree to disagree.

:rofl:

Another fan! Yes! I think a few people started a fan club about that, I dont remeber it though. Im sure it will pop back up in February or so they'll follow my posts around and disagree, just to disagree. Feel free to join them, I love the attention!

[Nighthawk]

Im actually closer to 8 maturity wise, but I dont know exactly how that factors into my actual age...Ive never been a good math guy, I ll have to get back to you. on that one.

I dont really try to make myself look more intelligent, its just kinda comes naturally at this point, but I mean what can you do? Some call it a gift, what can I do?

I dont want you anywhere near my ass thank you very much, and I dont call myself anything. This name was bestowed upon me, it was not of my own choosing. At least gets your facts correct, jeez!

Im not going to get into a who is more knowledgable debate, because well...its kind of childish...then again I am about 12 or so so what the hell! Im smarter than you, do you want to counter now with "nu-huh Im smarter" or would you like to go down even further and say your Dad was smarter than my Dad? I mean there is no telling how immature we could get! You game??

Who the hell is talking about popularity, where did that whole last section even come from? Nobody asked you to leave, simply pointing out a fatal flaw in the question you asked. No more and no less, no need to get dramatic about it.

Man, you're a clown.

[The Jokeman]

Agree on Greer and Williams.

Jury's still out on Edwards.

Butler sucks.
All I know is the offense seems a whole lot worse without Fowler and Butler in the middle.

[Nighthawk]

All I know is the offense seems a whole lot worse without Fowler and Butler in the middle.

Sad, but true. Imagine if they had some real talent up the middle!

[Nighthawk]

:rofl: No he wasn't but you keep on thinking that. That's like saying DRC was picked in Round 1 because he was ready too. Come on dude, seriously, you gotta just let that one go, because you are way out of your league here.

Visit this link and tell me what it says...this is Rivals.com scouting report. He was the CB that most believed could play early and contribute right away. Now I'm not upset that it's taken him a little longer, but that is how he was viewed.

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?sport=1&player=39066&type=scoutingreport#scouting

[DraftBoy]

Visit this link and tell me what it says...this is Rivals.com scouting report. He was the CB that most believed could play early and contribute right away. Now I'm not upset that it's taken him a little longer, but that is how he was viewed.

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?sport=1&player=39066&type=scoutingreport#scouting


Difference between what you read and what I read is right here;



He is a solid early first-round pick with the athletic ability and a high level of development to be an impact performer in a few roles.

They mean years not roles and Rivals isnt a top tier scouting site. Top tier recruiting site yes, but not scouting.

[DraftBoy]

McKelvin is a great pro prospect. He has round one type skills, but probably will be drafted in the mid to late second round. He will immediately uplift the return game of the team that drafted him. With more experience and good coaching, he should have a smooth transition to DB in the NFL. He has instant contribution characteristics and has a chance to be a very solid pro for years.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1272

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Todd McShay agrees with me...

[Nighthawk]

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1272

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Todd McShay agrees with me...

And fftoolbox is a top scouting site...you're kidding, right?

[DraftBoy]

And fftoolbox is a top scouting site...you're kidding, right?


Is it a reading thing, or are you just imagining that I said the words "FFtoolbox is a top scouting site"....

I figured you were going to pull reports from non-reputable sites what the hell I could o, then I decided to go with a guy who actually gets paid for this whole scouting thing and shocked as I was, he agreed with me...hmmm....

[Nighthawk]

Is it a reading thing, or are you just imagining that I said the words "FFtoolbox is a top scouting site"....

I figured you were going to pull reports from non-reputable sites what the hell I could o, then I decided to go with a guy who actually gets paid for this whole scouting thing and shocked as I was, he agreed with me...hmmm....

I guess you were wrong, I'm not going to through some internet wannabe's draft scouting at you to prove a point. Man, give me some credit.

[DraftBoy]

I guess you were wrong, I'm not going to through some internet wannabe's draft scouting at you to prove a point. Man, give me some credit.


How was I wrong again exactly? I must be missing something...

[Nighthawk]

How was I wrong again exactly? I must be missing something...

I didn't post some obscure website...you did. McShay isn't exactly the most respected NFL expert either.

[X-Era]

I didn't post some obscure website...you did. McShay isn't exactly the most respected NFL expert either.

Id take McShay over most of the internet draft site guys.

Sorry, DB, but I look at it like this as far as on the screen draft talent:

1) Mike Mayock
2) Todd McShay
3) Mel Kiper (thats why Im sorry).

[DraftBoy]

I didn't post some obscure website...you did. McShay isn't exactly the most respected NFL expert either.


Ahh I get it now, its that My Dad is smarter than your Dad argument now. I knew you could do it. You discounting of Todd McShay clearly shows your bias. McShay works for Scouts Inc, and ESPN and no matter if you like him or not, behind Mayock he is the best. If there is only a way to tell what he thought...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/leodis-mckelvin?id=1298#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis


Compares To: R.W. McQUARTERS-New York Giants...Like McQuarters, McKelvin is a solid return specialist, even though he does not always play to his timed speed. He needs some technique refinement, but due to a lack of natural power, he is never going to be a physical tackler. He shows willingness in run support, but is better making plays on the move than getting bounced around in tight quarters. Like McQuarters, he runs hot-and-cold with his ball-reaction skills, sometimes looking like Bambi staring down at the headlights of an oncoming truck. McKelvin has the ability to break a game open once he finds a crease on returns. Until he can prove that he can add strength, his immediate value will be on special teams.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/news/story?id=3368905


What he brings: McKelvin doesn't have elite ball skills and he isn't tough against the run, but he has great speed (4.38), changes directions quickly and flashes great instincts. In addition, he's a dangerous open-field runner who can contribute in the return game and is always a threat to turn an interception into points. If he can adjust to the speed of the pro game, McKelvin can make an immediate impact.
How he fits: The Bills had to improve at corner based on their inability to match up on the perimeter versus explosive passing attacks. The Bills are a heavy Cover 2 team, which makes McKelvin an interesting pick based on his finesse style. The Bills like to be physical on the outside and he is more of a cover guy than run-support player. However, he is a definite upgrade over Jabari Greer and Ashton Youboty. This was definitely a value pick for Buffalo.

Ill await for you to discredt all of these before we can continue further.

[DraftBoy]

Id take McShay over most of the internet draft site guys.

Sorry, DB, but I look at it like this as far as on the screen draft talent:

1) Mike Mayock
2) Todd McShay
3) Mel Kiper (thats why Im sorry).


Putting Kiper over me, for shame!!

[Nighthawk]

Ahh I get it now, its that My Dad is smarter than your Dad argument now. I knew you could do it. You discounting of Todd McShay clearly shows your bias. McShay works for Scouts Inc, and ESPN and no matter if you like him or not, behind Mayock he is the best. If there is only a way to tell what he thought...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/leodis-mckelvin?id=1298#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis



http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/news/story?id=3368905



Ill await for you to discredt all of these before we can continue further.

You must have got your ass kicked a lot...just saying, it seems that way. Oh, no I won't discredit these, but I do recall watching Mayock and he stated that McKelvin would be the CB in this draft that would be the most likely to contribute at CB this season.

[Nighthawk]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=3368905


Quote:
What he brings: McKelvin doesn't have elite ball skills and he isn't tough against the run, but he has great speed (4.38), changes directions quickly and flashes great instincts. In addition, he's a dangerous open-field runner who can contribute in the return game and is always a threat to turn an interception into points. If he can adjust to the speed of the pro game, McKelvin can make an immediate impact.
How he fits: The Bills had to improve at corner based on their inability to match up on the perimeter versus explosive passing attacks. The Bills are a heavy Cover 2 team, which makes McKelvin an interesting pick based on his finesse style. The Bills like to be physical on the outside and he is more of a cover guy than run-support player. However, he is a definite upgrade over Jabari Greer and Ashton Youboty. This was definitely a value pick for Buffalo.

And doesn't this pretty much back up my point? Or am I missing something...?

[DraftBoy]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=3368905


Quote:
What he brings: McKelvin doesn't have elite ball skills and he isn't tough against the run, but he has great speed (4.38), changes directions quickly and flashes great instincts. In addition, he's a dangerous open-field runner who can contribute in the return game and is always a threat to turn an interception into points. If he can adjust to the speed of the pro game, McKelvin can make an immediate impact.
How he fits: The Bills had to improve at corner based on their inability to match up on the perimeter versus explosive passing attacks. The Bills are a heavy Cover 2 team, which makes McKelvin an interesting pick based on his finesse style. The Bills like to be physical on the outside and he is more of a cover guy than run-support player. However, he is a definite upgrade over Jabari Greer and Ashton Youboty. This was definitely a value pick for Buffalo.

And doesn't this pretty much back up my point? Or am I missing something...?

Yes the immediate impact they are talking about in the return game, see the bolded part.

[DraftBoy]

You must have got your ass kicked a lot...just saying, it seems that way. Oh, no I won't discredit these, but I do recall watching Mayock and he stated that McKelvin would be the CB in this draft that would be the most likely to contribute at CB this season.

Do you mean like on the playground or something? Never been hit in my lifetime, sorry to disappoint you. Pays to have big friends!

[gr8slayer]

Wrong and right. McKelvin WAS drafted because he was deemed the CB who was most polished and ready to play immediately. Hardy on the other hand was a project pick who needed work.
Dude, you are clueless, if it wasn't for his return abilities McKelvin would not have been the #1 CB taken in last years draft. He is nowhere near the most polished CB and does not fit what this C2 system is trying to do. He is far more of a man CB than a zone CB and again, if it wasn't for his return ability he would not have been drafted #1.

Need more proof that he was not the most polished CB in last years draft? DRC and Jenkins have both made starts this season and have done very well in both starts. In fact, Jenkins won the game for Dallas vs. Tampa in the forth quarter. DRC made two very big plays last night and halted two drives for SF.

[djjimkelly]

i think kyle williams sucks im sorry this staff has not made a player out of him. hes a pilon that gets run over constantly

[djjimkelly]

Dude, you are extremely clueless, if it wasn't for his return abilities McKelvin would not have been the #1 CB taken in last years draft. He is nowhere near the most polished CB and does not fit what this C2 system is trying to do. He is far more of a man CB than a zone CB and again, if it wasn't for his return ability he would not have been drafted #1.


well the fact hes a man to man cb makes me happy maybe the next set of coaches will know how to use him

[gr8slayer]

well the fact hes a man to man cb makes me happy maybe the next set of coaches will know how to use him
Next set? You mean in three years when Jauron's contract is up? :ill:

[Nighthawk]

Dude, you are clueless, if it wasn't for his return abilities McKelvin would not have been the #1 CB taken in last years draft. He is nowhere near the most polished CB and does not fit what this C2 system is trying to do. He is far more of a man CB than a zone CB and again, if it wasn't for his return ability he would not have been drafted #1.

Need more proof that he was not the most polished CB in last years draft? DRC and Jenkins have both made starts this season and have done very well in both starts. In fact, Jenkins won the game for Dallas vs. Tampa in the forth quarter.

Those are not my impressions, but that IS what was talked about before the draft. I don't agree that he is ready and don't believe CB's contribute much in their first season, but that is what was said.

[gr8slayer]

Those are not my impressions, but that IS what was talked about before the draft. I don't agree that he is ready and don't believe CB's contribute much in their first season, but that is what was said.
The idea that he was the most polished CB was NOT the impression by the majority of NFL scouts, this much I can assure you.

[Nighthawk]

The idea that he was the most polished CB was NOT the impression by the majority of NFL scouts, this much I can assure you.

Maybe not, but I can assure you that he wasn't considered a project.

[gr8slayer]

Maybe not, but I can assure you that he wasn't considered a project.
Yes, he actually was. It was well known that he was not ready to be a starting CB at the NFL level in his first year. He was looked at purely as a KR/PR much like Devin Hester was.

[Mahdi]

Dude, you are clueless, if it wasn't for his return abilities McKelvin would not have been the #1 CB taken in last years draft. He is nowhere near the most polished CB and does not fit what this C2 system is trying to do. He is far more of a man CB than a zone CB and again, if it wasn't for his return ability he would not have been drafted #1.

Need more proof that he was not the most polished CB in last years draft? DRC and Jenkins have both made starts this season and have done very well in both starts. In fact, Jenkins won the game for Dallas vs. Tampa in the forth quarter. DRC made two very big plays last night and halted two drives for SF.
Im going to have to agree with Nighthawk on this one.

Mckelvin WAS the most polished cover corner coming out of the draft this year and for the follwing reasons.

a) scouts said that of all the corners he had the best change of direction and closing speed.

b) he had the best man to man coverage skills and excellent recovery skills.

DRC was considered a great athlete with great size but raw and Jenkins had questionable hips and change of direction abilities.

Mckelvin was NO DOUBT the most polished and best value CB coming out.

[gr8slayer]

Im going to have to agree with Nighthawk on this one.

Mckelvin WAS the most polished cover corner coming out of the draft this year and for the follwing reasons.

a) scouts said that of all the corners he had the best change of direction and closing speed.

b) he had the best man to man coverage skills and excellent recovery skills.

DRC was considered a great athlete with great size but raw and Jenkins had questionable hips and change of direction abilities.

Mckelvin was NO DOUBT the most polished and best value CB coming out.
I'd like to meet the scouts you talk to, they are likely unemployed. You people wouldn't even have known who McKelvin was if he hadn't been drafted by the Bills.

Tell me, what Troy games did you watch during his time in college?

[Mahdi]

I'd like to meet the scouts you talk to, they are likely unemployed. You people wouldn't even have known who McKelvin was if he hadn't been drafted by the Bills.

Tell me, what Troy games did you watch during his time in college?
Mayock himself said he was the most polished CB coming out of the draft. Him and Flowers. Flowers had speed questions though so he was not as highly rated as Mckelvin.

Who exactly do you say was the most polished CB coming out?

[DraftBoy]

Mayock himself said he was the most polished CB coming out of the draft. Him and Flowers. Flowers had speed questions though so he was not as highly rated as Mckelvin.

Who exactly do you say was the most polished CB coming out?

Jenkins and Cason were far and a way were the top two polished CB's in this past draft. It wasn't even close.

[Mahdi]

Jenkins and Cason were far and a way were the top two polished CB's in this past draft. It wasn't even close.
Jenkins and Cason. Really. Then why were they never mentioned by ANY scout as the top CBs in the draft.

Jenkins ran a 4.36 at the combine so what possible reason would keep him behind Mckelvin if he was more polished?