Never seen a Bill's QB more responsible

[MountainMan]

On a night in Buffalo that our return teams gave our offense 9 drive starts between the 38 and the 50 plus a TD; our running backs and OLine combined for 179 yards; our defense held all the extra Cleveland short field extra opportunites at bay and the Oline rarely allowed any pressure in PassPro, it's unimaginable that there are still fans insisting the finger should be pointed anywhere but QB.

The fact that Edwards was horrible Monday doesn't necessarily mean the team should be rewriting the depth chart at his position. At the same time with the record compiled by the California kid so far in cold games, any objective fan of the team has got to begin considering whether Trent will ever be effective in winter weather in Western New York.

[justasportsfan]

It was Lindells fault. Ask Dummy.

[TacklingDummy]

It was Lindells fault. Ask Dummy.


Agreed.

It was also Edwards fault, Jackson's fault for fumbling, the D's fault for letting Harrison run for a 72 yard TD, etc...

It's a team game. It's not baseball where pitchers get the W or L.

[RockStar36]

Agreed.

It was also Edwards fault, Jackson's fault for fumbling, the D's fault for letting Harrison run for a 72 yard TD, etc...

It's a team game. It's not baseball where pitchers get the W or L.

Then what the hell are you trying to prove with your signature stat?

[bigbub2352]

He just turned 24 and hasnt even played a full season yet
nothing to do with the fact our play calling is a joke
Our offensive line finally gave him consistent protection for the 2nd time all season
we have no clear cut number 2 wr
we have no starting capable TE
gotta play thru the growing pains all the great QBs did it

[justasportsfan]

Then what the hell are you trying to prove with your signature stat? :roflmao:

take a guess

[yordad]

I seen a game where our QB could be asmuch to blame as the last game. It was last year vs. Dallas.

[Philagape]

I seen a game where our QB could be asmuch to blame as the last game. It was last year vs. Dallas.

Yeah, a defense giving up two scores in 20 seconds is way more common and understandable.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, a defense giving up two scores in 20 seconds is way more common and understandable.
the D didn't do as badly last monday so there's no blaming anyone but trent this time.

[yordad]

Yeah, a defense giving up two scores in 20 seconds is way more common and understandable.We scored 3 offensive points. He threw the losing Int. when all he had to do was throw an incompletion and they win. Don't even try it.

[Philagape]

We scored 3 offensive points. He threw the losing Int. when all he had to do was throw an incompletion and they win. Don't even try it.

So "all he had to do" applies more to an interception -- which occurred with an 8-point lead and led to zero Dallas points -- than to giving up two scores in 20 seconds? There's nothing to "try."
It's only that kind of insanity that helps explain such creepy love for a bad quarterback.

[patmoran2006]

When you take into factor all the things we were able to do we haven't been able to do all year (drive starts, ST TD, run the ball, etc) and we still lose-- its on the QB. Its one of the worst performances I've ever seen when u factor the 3 INT and his unwillingness to throw the ball to anyone but Lynch in the flat.

And i've been a big time Trent guy.

[MountainMan]

It's a team game.

But the team put in a very good to excellent game.

It was just one player who stunk from top to bottom, from beginning to end.

The shame is at the QB position, there's so much mental pampering that we didn't do what we might have done had it been a LB or WR absolutely polluting the field Monday- like most teams I'd hope we'd have pulled the player and given someone else a chance in order to win a game within our grasp instead of needlessly conceding the game due to some psychiatric exercise.

Then again, we didn't do that when Jauron wanted TMcGee to come back and we allowed another game to slip away without trading out for someone who offered a better chance on that day.

Maybe the biggest problem we're having this season is the team philosophy regarding replacing players, even if it's for spurts?

[feldspar]

C'mon...let's go get him...seriously, this Lynch mob mentality is a little much. We made some huge mistakes in every facet of the game. Let me remind you...and I'm not defending Trent here, so keep that in mind.

The defense gave up 29 points. They gave up an 83 yard drive and a 94 yard drive, both for TDs. They didn't cause a single turnover. I'll give them props for damage control by only allowing 6 points off Trent's three turnovers in the first quarter, but the defense didn't really play all that great...let's face it. They had their moments, though.

You know that if you get a lot of kick-off returns, that means the other team is scoring often. Our kick-returns were excellent and got us a TD. Roscoe was great returning punts too...except for the one he botched, allowing Cleveland to down it at the one instead of us being on at least the 20 or so. Moorman did some good things, but Lindell is another story. He missed the field goal at the end, in which case you could totally blame the loss on him...but I wouldn't go that far because a 47 yarder isn't a gimme. I can only think of 2 game winners this guy has kicked in 5 and a half years in Buffalo...I still question his ability in the clutch. Apart from that, Lindell actually kicked the ball out of bounds at the Cleveland 43 yard line on one of his kickoffs. How bad was THAT?

On offense, Freddie Jackson fumbled the ball at the Cleveland 28...that cost us points. On a different drive, Steve Johnson dropped an easy short pass on 3rd down at the Cleveland 40, causing us to punt...that most likely cost us points as well.

This is not even mentioning some of the horrendous coaching decisions we made.

Notice how I didn't talk about Trent in this post. But, to the thread-starter, if you really have never seen a QB more responsible for a loss, you haven't watched too much football or you are thirsting for someone's blood. There is plenty enough to bash Trent with without exaggerating or inventing things. If you want to see a QB more responsible for a loss, watch Brett Favre throw 6 interceptions in a playoff game against a not-so-good D. How about Jake Plummer? He threw 24 interceptions as opposed to 9 TDs one year, with a passer rating of 50.8...the examples are endless.

[mybills]

“You only have a limited amount of preparation time, so you prepare for what they’ve shown you,” said Jauron. “If you tried to prepare for every potential defense that they could throw against you, you wouldn’t get any kind of repetitions against what they’ve done.”

They can prepare for the current opponent on the field, but what about the days they're not practicing? They should have him watching film on the various types of defenses. He could have done that on the bye week while he was resting from his injury. I'm sure they knew back then that they'd be facing the same defense 4 games in a row. :cynic:

[yordad]

So "all he had to do" applies more to an interception -- which occurred with an 8-point lead and led to zero Dallas points -- than to giving up two scores in 20 seconds? There's nothing to "try."
It's only that kind of insanity that helps explain such creepy love for a bad quarterback.We finally agree. Your love and defense for TE, in this case, is kinda creepy.

[Philagape]

We finally agree. Your love and defense for TE, in this case, is kinda creepy.

I know you are but what am I :insane:

[SABURZFAN]

it's unimaginable that there are still fans insisting the finger should be pointed anywhere but QB.



the Lickers never held Lossman responsible either. it was everybody elses fault. :rolleyes:

[gr8slayer]

This loss was all on Edwards.

[MountainMan]

to the thread-starter, if you really have never seen a QB more responsible for a loss, you haven't watched too much football

Please excuse me- I didn't realize you were one of such eminence as to be capable of judging the "amount" of football others have been exposed to based upon some sixth sense that you feel you possess.

I find it curious that this "special skill" you have is clearly unrelated in any way to your ability to comprehend what others have offered in opinion- my post is titled "Never seen a Bill's QB..." but your lack of any attention or consideration of the actual topic I suggested ends up in the following Hansel and Gretel meander away from the clearly defined trail:


If you want to see a QB more responsible for a loss, watch Brett Favre throw 6 interceptions in a playoff game against a not-so-good D. How about Jake Plummer? He threw 24 interceptions as opposed to 9 TDs one year, with a passer rating of 50.8...the examples are endless.

[feldspar]

Please excuse me- I didn't realize you were one of such eminence as to be capable of judging the "amount" of football others have been exposed to based upon some sixth sense that you feel you possess.

I find it curious that this "special skill" you have is clearly unrelated in any way to your ability to comprehend what others have offered in opinion- my post is titled "Never seen a Bill's QB..." but your lack of any attention or consideration of the actual topic I suggested ends up in the following Hansel and Gretel meander away from the clearly defined trail:



Well, aren't we feeling especially snotty today?

Jim Kelly has cost us games a lot more than Trent did in this one. How about this one? 48% completions for 116 yards, 4 INTs, 0 TDs, with a passer rating of 18.4...that's bad.

As I said before, while Trent played poorly, there were plenty of other things that other people did wrong as well. You give him a good portion of the blame, but not all of it. Had Lindell earned his pay and made that kick, the storyline would have been about how Trent Edwards battled through adversity to set us up for the game-winning kick...just like it was for Tony Romo last year...Tony Romo, who single-handedly turned the ball over 6 times. People were actually saying positive things about him after the game.

[yordad]

Well, aren't we feeling especially snotty today?

Jim Kelly has cost us games a lot more than Trent did in this one. How about this one? 48% completions for 116 yards, 4 INTs, 0 TDs, with a passer rating of 18.4...that's bad.

As I said before, while Trent played poorly, there were plenty of other things that other people did wrong as well. You give him a good portion of the blame, but not all of it. Had Lindell earned his pay and made that kick, the storyline would have been about how Trent Edwards battled through adversity to set us up for the game-winning kick...just like it was for Tony Romo last year...Tony Romo, who single-handedly turned the ball over 6 times. People were actually saying positive things about him after the game.So, are you saying had Lindell made that kick you would be talking about TE's good game? I think it is a valid question if all you could come up w was 20 year old stats from Jim Kelly's 3rd NFL game vs. the Steelers in their hayday.

[patmoran2006]

When it comes to Jim Kelly, I liken it to remembering a person that's dead.

You choose to only remember the good times. On that note, Jimbo NEVER had a bad game!

[feldspar]

So, are you saying had Lindell made that kick you would be talking about TE's good game? I think it is a valid question if all you could come up w was 20 year old stats from Jim Kelly's 3rd NFL game vs. the Steelers in their hayday.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the details of a game don't matter so much when you win. I'm talking about the storyline...the slant we would be hearing. Say what you want, but Trent just scored a TD on a QB sneak and then threw an excellent 22 yard pass to Royal to set us up for the win. That meant something even with the loss, but with a win, it would have made all the difference, everything else aside. You win or lose games at the end is my point, and people could easily forgive Trent for his mistakes in the rest of the game had Lindell made that kick.

And Kelly's 12-year-old game (not 20) wasn't "all I could come up with." I'm not trying to write a book here. I used Kelly because he was the best Bills QB of all time and a Hall of Famer, and he cost his team the game more than Trent did in this one...and more than once. Every Bills QB that has been given any amount of starts had cost the Bills a game just as much as Trent did in this one. Bad games happen to everyone, even bad stretches of games. And before someone starts to argue against a strawman, I'm not making excuses for Trent or saying he is going to be a Hall of Famer because Kelly has had worse games...somebody always seems to do that.

[justasportsfan]

As I said before, while Trent played poorly, there were plenty of other things that other people did wrong as well. You give him a good portion of the blame, but not all of it. Had Lindell earned his pay and made that kick, the storyline would have been about how Trent Edwards battled through adversity to set us up for the game-winning kick...just like it was for Tony Romo last year...Tony Romo, who single-handedly turned the ball over 6 times. People were actually saying positive things about him after the game.
people who've said the same thing about another qb on the team have ben called lickers. Careful

[feldspar]

When it comes to Jim Kelly, I liken it to remembering a person that's dead.

You choose to only remember the good times.

Remember that time Hitler kissed that baby?

That was sweet.

[patmoran2006]

Remember that time Hitler kissed that baby?

That was sweet.
Reading comprehension issues?

I made it pretty clear in my quote "when it comes to Jim Kelly"

[feldspar]

people who've said the same thing about another qb on the team have ben called lickers. Careful

Those people are like John Madden in a roomful of Brett Favres...there is more than one person on the team, and coaching plays a big factor too.

Like I say, there is plenty of real things to slam Trent Edwards about...people should stick to those things and not pretend like everything else on this team is just peachy.

I think a lot of people don't have the attention span to consider the big picture. They need a quick and easy scapegoat...one thing to point at and say "that's the problem...the ONLY problem."

[feldspar]

Reading comprehension issues?

I made it pretty clear in my quote "when it comes to Jim Kelly"

No sense of humor issues?

Stick up the crack issues?

[patmoran2006]

Those people are like John Madden in a roomful of Brett Favres...there is more than one person on the team, and coaching plays a big factor too.

Like I say, there is plenty of real things to slam Trent Edwards about...people should stick to those things and not pretend like everything else on this team is just peachy.

I think a lot of people don't have the attention span to consider the big picture. They need a quick and easy scapegoat...one thing to point at and say "that's the problem...the ONLY problem."
There's plenty of problems.. Trent's just one of many.

I'd go as far to say their isn't a single strength on this team right now. Sorry, but I'm not ready to herald our running game as solid, based on a performance against a pathetic Browns defense. lets see us run the ball down Miami or the Jets throats, then I'll call it a strength.

This team has SOME talent, but its not talented enough, and it starts with a bungling owner right down to his cheap selections at GM, head coach and everything else (get what you pay for) down to the underachieving of the players.

[MountainMan]

Well, aren't we feeling especially snotty today?



Think of it more along the lines of a means to quickly learn who in a forum is capable of having an objective discussion about the Buffalo Bills versus those so locked into a player or position that they can't accept facts. Like the fact that Edwards was awful Monday. The record shows you can't accept that. You've blamed the Bill's marketing department, the check out boy at Wegmans and Irv Weinstein, but you can barely bring yourself to say that Edwards "didn't have a good game". I'll keep that in mind by ignoring your posts in the future so as not to be a threat to the corner you've got yourself backed into here- and I'll fully support your ignoring all my "snotty" opinions.

[patmoran2006]

Edwards was discraceful on Monday, and he also played like a coward.

and there are few people on this board who want him to be good more than I do.

[feldspar]

There's plenty of problems.. Trent's just one of many.

Thanks, that was all I was trying to say. And I'll add that I haven't give up on Trent. I don't see this bad stretch as evidence that he'll suck forever; I've seen him play extremely well and come through in the clutch. We'll see what happens. We'll know a lot more by the end of the year. If healthy, Trent should start every week IMO. Hopefully, he can gain his confidence back by beating a couple of pretty bad teams we have coming up. The real test will come against our division opponent rematches, though.


I'd go as far to say their isn't a single strength on this team right now. Sorry, but I'm not ready to herald our running game as solid, based on a performance against a pathetic Browns defense. lets see us run the ball down Miami or the Jets throats, then I'll call it a strength.

I agree with you. The slant we heard early on was that, while the Bills weren't great at anything, they made up for that by not having any real glaring weaknesses, that they were at least passably good at everything...but I don't think that's true either. It seemed like it was true while we were beating some of the worst teams in the league.

As far as the running game against the Browns, they rushed three men and dropped eight into coverage a lot. This would free the offensive line up quite a bit, causing them to look better than they really are...the same goes for the running game. This also made things more difficult for Trent, who needs to find a way past this defensive scheme. This is why teams have game-planned against us this way: it works.


This team has SOME talent, but its not talented enough, and it starts with a bungling owner right down to his cheap selections at GM, head coach and everything else (get what you pay for) down to the underachieving of the players.

I think that, with better coaching, the Bills would have won 2 of their last four. The owner is absolutely ridiculous as times...crucial times. How about putting Crowell on IR? I was irate about that when it happened, and I'm still beside myself about how we would deliberately make ourselves a worse team like that. The irony is that Crowell would have been back in action by the time the Bills started their 4-game skid. We waited as long as Crowell would have been out for Derek Fine to get healthy, a rookie 4th round pick who is a borderline contributor.

[feldspar]

Think of it more along the lines of a means to quickly learn who in a forum is capable of having an objective discussion about the Buffalo Bills versus those so locked into a player or position that they can't accept facts.

Wow. It's amazing to me that you just accused me of the exact thing that you are guilty of.

Talk about a hypocrite.

I just presented a world of facts about the rest of the team, and I barely mentioned Trent for a reason. I've littered my posts with those reasons by way of disclaimers.

YOU are the one locked into a player or position. I've been talking mainly about other things other than Trent. If somebody wants to change the subject from Trent, he gets attacked for not knowing what's what...because Trent is the only problem on this team and the only reason we are losing. Yeah, right. I'm not just saying "Trent sucks" over and over again, so I don't know what I'm talking about...yeah, right.

Trent has won us a few games this year too, if you remember.