With the **th overall pick in the Draft, the Buffalo Bills Choose...

[BillsWin]

While I don't feel he will drop to us, if he does,

Brian Orakpo, Defensive End.

6' 3'' 255 lb

you guys want a pass rush, well he'll bring it to our D line.

In the second round we can get a starting quality LB (however, I have a REAL good feeling about Alvin Bowen. His rookie year cut short before the season, but the guy is a monster. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/584519)

I wouldnt be suprised if Bowen was our starting "Sam" backer next season. (He needs to add muscle this off season.)

So if We are comfortable with Bowen, or go after a FA LB, I see us going DT in round 2.

I love Kyle Williams. He has my High School number (95) and he plays my position (DL) but I think we need a dominate space eater to compliment Stroud and bully the opponent's o-line.

In the second round, Vince Oghobaase (Duke) may be available. He is probably the 3rd-4th best DT in the draft. If we can get him we should.

Schobel Oghobaase Stroud Orakpo

If that Front 4 doesn't get pressure on the QB, I don't know what we could do.

Oghobaase is 6-6 300 lbs and has pretty good speed. He is more that just a run stuffer, he can get good pressure on the QB.

Man if we could get these guys, I'd already call it a day! but, lets move on.

You really think that 3 centers will be taken before we pick in the third? unlikely. Centers can be taken in later rounds, however we have such a pressing need that we should and probably will use one of our first 3-4 picks on one.

If we can get two playmakers in the first and second like Oghobaase or Orakpo, Then we should get one of the top 3 centers in the 3rd.

We shouldnt take Alex Mack in the first. This team has some really pressing needs on defense, and good centers can be found later.

In the second or third, Johnathan Luigs (Arkansas) or Antoine Caldwell (Alabama) should still be available.

Gettin a top 3 player at their position in the 3rd would be great.


In the 4th, I like taking a depth LB. There will be several available. All good pickings. My favorite would be Mortty Ivy from West Virginia.

We are pretty much drafting the best available from here on out, and to be honest I think a couple FA aquisitions will be made, so we wont have too many needs come draft day.

Lets review my mock so far.

1. Brian Orakpo DE
2. Vince Oghobaase DT
3. Antoine Caldwell C
4. Mortty Ivy LB


Now with the 5th pick, I think we look towards a solid backup QB project.

5. You aren't going to believe it but, *deep breath* Heisman candidate Graham Harrell from Texas Tech. I believe he will drop this far. and he will be a career backup, unless he has something that most tech QBs dont have when they are out of the system. Say hello to my 5th round pick, mr heisman hopeful Graham Harrell! Crazy huh?

6. Rashawn Jackson FB, Virginia.
We need a real FB to help spring Lynch.

7. Louis Vasquez OG Texas Tech
Depth pick for our o-line.


So, let me know what you think. Here is my first mock draft on these boards. Go Bills.


1. Brian Orakpo DE
2. Vince Oghobaase DT
3. Antoine Caldwell C
4. Mortty Ivy LB
5. Graham Harrell QB
6. Rashawn Jackson FB
7. Louis Vasquez OG


:bedard: I'm really interested in what DraftBoy thinks!


EDIT: Oh, and btw, some of you may be wondering why I didnt choose a single offensive "playmaker"

Because we don't really need one. If Edwards is the QB of the future, all he really needs is a better o-line. Look at the starters on Offense:

Trent Edwards throwing to Lee Evans, James Hardy, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish and my personal favorite, Steve Johnson. All those guys can make plays.

Then you have Marshawn Lynch running the rock, with an excellent change of pace back in Fred Jackson.

You get a good FB in there, a better center, and this is a good offense!

We don't need to draft offensive superheros, we just need to improve our run blocking with a new center, and a better scheme and a true FB.

Shore up the defense and some of our schemes and we have a good playoff calibur team.

[Antoni]

Good luck with Orakpo, you'll need to tank the rest of the way to get him. With that said I think he's extremely overrated and besides the bull rush doesn't have much

Greg Hardy from Ole Miss will be a pretty good pickup for the Bills and he'll be available in the middle of the 1st which is where you'll probably be picking

[BillsWin]

Good luck with Orakpo, you'll need to tank the rest of the way to get him. With that said I think he's extremely overrated and besides the bull rush doesn't have much

Greg Hardy from Ole Miss will be a pretty good pickup for the Bills and he'll be available in the middle of the 1st which is where you'll probably be picking

I agree that Hardy would be a good pickup. If Orakpo isn't there, I can def see them picking Hardy.

[clumping platelets]

I just want a talented player :(

[yordad]

We better make some FA moves. Because our offense needs more then a walk on rookie starting center and FB.

But, thanks for the read. I found it informative.

[Nighthawk]

I just want a talented player :(

I just want a good HC!

[Mitchy moo]

I would like to have the last pick in this draft, not by any trades.

[gr8slayer]

I just want a talented player :(
Buffalo is afraid of those types of players, they might actually win some games.

[billogic99]

While I don't feel he will drop to us, if he does,

Brian Orakpo, Defensive End.

6' 3'' 255 lb

you guys want a pass rush, well he'll bring it to our D line.

The last thing the Bills need is another MLB playing DE. They need to start adding size to the Dline and talent to the Oline. I would think the Bills need to rebuild both lines before they do anything else. Than they need to upgrade the LB's.

[DraftBoy]

While I don't feel he will drop to us, if he does,

Brian Orakpo, Defensive End.

6' 3'' 255 lb

you guys want a pass rush, well he'll bring it to our D line.

In the second round we can get a starting quality LB (however, I have a REAL good feeling about Alvin Bowen. His rookie year cut short before the season, but the guy is a monster. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/584519)

I wouldnt be suprised if Bowen was our starting "Sam" backer next season. (He needs to add muscle this off season.)

So if We are comfortable with Bowen, or go after a FA LB, I see us going DT in round 2.

I love Kyle Williams. He has my High School number (95) and he plays my position (DL) but I think we need a dominate space eater to compliment Stroud and bully the opponent's o-line.

In the second round, Vince Oghobaase (Duke) may be available. He is probably the 3rd-4th best DT in the draft. If we can get him we should.

Schobel Oghobaase Stroud Orakpo

If that Front 4 doesn't get pressure on the QB, I don't know what we could do.

Oghobaase is 6-6 300 lbs and has pretty good speed. He is more that just a run stuffer, he can get good pressure on the QB.

Man if we could get these guys, I'd already call it a day! but, lets move on.

You really think that 3 centers will be taken before we pick in the third? unlikely. Centers can be taken in later rounds, however we have such a pressing need that we should and probably will use one of our first 3-4 picks on one.

If we can get two playmakers in the first and second like Oghobaase or Orakpo, Then we should get one of the top 3 centers in the 3rd.

We shouldnt take Alex Mack in the first. This team has some really pressing needs on defense, and good centers can be found later.

In the second or third, Johnathan Luigs (Arkansas) or Antoine Caldwell (Alabama) should still be available.

Gettin a top 3 player at their position in the 3rd would be great.


In the 4th, I like taking a depth LB. There will be several available. All good pickings. My favorite would be Mortty Ivy from West Virginia.

We are pretty much drafting the best available from here on out, and to be honest I think a couple FA aquisitions will be made, so we wont have too many needs come draft day.

Lets review my mock so far.

1. Brian Orakpo DE
2. Vince Oghobaase DT
3. Antoine Caldwell C
4. Mortty Ivy LB


Now with the 5th pick, I think we look towards a solid backup QB project.

5. You aren't going to believe it but, *deep breath* Heisman candidate Graham Harrell from Texas Tech. I believe he will drop this far. and he will be a career backup, unless he has something that most tech QBs dont have when they are out of the system. Say hello to my 5th round pick, mr heisman hopeful Graham Harrell! Crazy huh?

6. Rashawn Jackson FB, Virginia.
We need a real FB to help spring Lynch.

7. Louis Vasquez OG Texas Tech
Depth pick for our o-line.


So, let me know what you think. Here is my first mock draft on these boards. Go Bills.


1. Brian Orakpo DE
2. Vince Oghobaase DT
3. Antoine Caldwell C
4. Mortty Ivy LB
5. Graham Harrell QB
6. Rashawn Jackson FB
7. Louis Vasquez OG


:bedard: I'm really interested in what DraftBoy thinks!


EDIT: Oh, and btw, some of you may be wondering why I didnt choose a single offensive "playmaker"

Because we don't really need one. If Edwards is the QB of the future, all he really needs is a better o-line. Look at the starters on Offense:

Trent Edwards throwing to Lee Evans, James Hardy, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish and my personal favorite, Steve Johnson. All those guys can make plays.

Then you have Marshawn Lynch running the rock, with an excellent change of pace back in Fred Jackson.

You get a good FB in there, a better center, and this is a good offense!

We don't need to draft offensive superheros, we just need to improve our run blocking with a new center, and a better scheme and a true FB.

Shore up the defense and some of our schemes and we have a good playoff calibur team.

Well first off your entire thread is off base since you won't acknowledge where you have us picking here. So if we finish in the mid teens I think Orakpo is a solid pick, as would be Curry, but if we lose out then Johnson would be the better pick, or if we win out it would probably be Hardy. So based just on that, I dont like speculation on taking a guy without knowing what part of the round we are picking in, because you set yourself up for too many what ifs.

I like Orakpo as a player he has a good inside move, and can effectively bull rush and use his speed to the outside. He is athletic enough to run down plays after they get past him or to the other sideline. He has good tackling technique and good hand placement to keep OT's off of him. I think he is a pretty complete back but he does poesses the same issue that Kelsay and Denney do and that is that he is susceptible to losing containment. He is so eager to make a play he will lose his assignment and can be beaten back to his own side on a cut back run or a reverse. Also I fear that he will try and use his athleticism (by far his best attribute at his size) in the NFL when he first gets in and struggle as a rookie. While he has a good inside move (well against Big 12 OT's) I dont see the confidence in it, that other DE's show like Hardy. He won't go inside on a big play, he always speed rushes to the outside. That wont work in the NFL.

Vince Oghobaase is a big DT at 6'6, 310 and an ideal 3-4 DT with that frame. He will put on weight for the combine and probably be closer to 330-340. He is right now closer to 325. So he really doesnt fit our DT scheme, and we aren't changing to a 3-4 in the offseason, so I dont think thats a good pick at all. I do like Oghobaase's skill level and what he brings to the field but I think he'll be a Round 1 pick and that he is a 3-4 DT.

Round to early for Caldwell. I dont think any OC really stands out over the rest. Round 4 is where Id go OC, and that would be one of Mack, Caldwell, Luigis, Shipley, or Wood. So I dont think Round 3 is the most optimal position to go OC but I wouldnt be extremely upset over it either.

Ivy isnt a bad pick and we certainly need to go OLB, but a guy like Ivy who runs in the 4.7-4.8 range wouldnt be a better pick over an Anthony Heygood, or Tyrone McKenzie. Personally I really like Jason Phillips and Zack Follett here most of all over anybody else. Phillips is a punishing tacklet and Follett may have some of the best play recognition skills in the Pac 10 which is saying alot with guys like Mauluga out there.

Harrell is too small for me to really like. He can fling the ball make all the throws and reads defenses pretty well but his size and lack of athleticism really hurt him in my opinion. I like guys like Mike Reilly, Jason Boltus, Tyler Lorenzen, and Rhett Bomar all more. I dont know that Harrell can really add much weigh to his frame, so I dont see him as a player with a lot of upside at this moment.

I dont where you got the FB you draft from because he's only a junior and not even on my radar screen for 2010. Id prefer guys like Brannan Southerland, Eric Kettani, Brock Bolen, Fui Vakapuna, or Tyler Roehl.

I like the Vasquez pick a lot I think its a smart pick and he provides good run blocking and pass blocking skills. While he has upside he is a not a project pick by any means.

Overall Id give your draft a C-. You pick good players for the most part but ignore glaring holes at TE, OLB, and S. You confidence in Bowen is not shared by me, and I dont feel as though you do enough to shore up our WR corp either. Needless to say I would be quite dissapointed if our draft went in this direction, because it would show further confusion and lack of direction on the part of the Tripod of Dysfunction.

[Pinkerton Security]

The last thing the Bills need is another MLB playing DE. They need to start adding size to the Dline and talent to the Oline. I would think the Bills need to rebuild both lines before they do anything else. Than they need to upgrade the LB's.

who is the last MLB we moved to DE?

[billogic99]

who is the last MLB we moved to DE?

I'm talking about Brian Orakpo's size, 6'- 3" 255 that's a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 MLB. He's way too damn small to be playing DE. Look at our Oline for christ sake, they avg. 315, to try and get around a 315 pound linemen for 4 qtrs with a 255 lb DE it ain't gonna happen. We need 290 lb'ers playing DE if we are gonna play the cover 2, otherwise we may as well just pack it in cause we won't scare anyone. My guess, the Bills will be a 3-4 defense by the end of the decade, mark my words.

[Pinkerton Security]

I'm talking about Brian Orakpo's size, 6'- 3" 255 that's a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 MLB. He's way too damn small to be playing DE. Look at our Oline for christ sake, they avg. 315, to try and get around a 315 pound linemen for 4 qtrs with a 255 lb DE it ain't gonna happen. We need 290 lb'ers playing DE if we are gonna play the cover 2, otherwise we may as well just pack it in cause we won't scare anyone. My guess, the Bills will be a 3-4 defense by the end of the decade, mark my words.

gotcha, got confused when you said "another".

Still -

Dwight Freeney - 6'1", 268
Robert Mathus - 6'2" 245
John Abraham - 6'4" 266
Terrell Suggs - 6'3" 260
Demarcus Ware - 6'4" 262

There are many other very successful "Tweener" types in the NFL, and if you really think we will be a 3-4 (which i doubt) you would be ecstatic about Orakpo because he is perfect as a OLB in that scheme.

[X-Era]

Well first off your entire thread is off base since you won't acknowledge where you have us picking here. So if we finish in the mid teens I think Orakpo is a solid pick, as would be Curry, but if we lose out then Johnson would be the better pick, or if we win out it would probably be Hardy. So based just on that, I dont like speculation on taking a guy without knowing what part of the round we are picking in, because you set yourself up for too many what ifs.

I like Orakpo as a player he has a good inside move, and can effectively bull rush and use his speed to the outside. He is athletic enough to run down plays after they get past him or to the other sideline. He has good tackling technique and good hand placement to keep OT's off of him. I think he is a pretty complete back but he does poesses the same issue that Kelsay and Denney do and that is that he is susceptible to losing containment. He is so eager to make a play he will lose his assignment and can be beaten back to his own side on a cut back run or a reverse. Also I fear that he will try and use his athleticism (by far his best attribute at his size) in the NFL when he first gets in and struggle as a rookie. While he has a good inside move (well against Big 12 OT's) I dont see the confidence in it, that other DE's show like Hardy. He won't go inside on a big play, he always speed rushes to the outside. That wont work in the NFL.

Vince Oghobaase is a big DT at 6'6, 310 and an ideal 3-4 DT with that frame. He will put on weight for the combine and probably be closer to 330-340. He is right now closer to 325. So he really doesnt fit our DT scheme, and we aren't changing to a 3-4 in the offseason, so I dont think thats a good pick at all. I do like Oghobaase's skill level and what he brings to the field but I think he'll be a Round 1 pick and that he is a 3-4 DT.

Round to early for Caldwell. I dont think any OC really stands out over the rest. Round 4 is where Id go OC, and that would be one of Mack, Caldwell, Luigis, Shipley, or Wood. So I dont think Round 3 is the most optimal position to go OC but I wouldnt be extremely upset over it either.

Ivy isnt a bad pick and we certainly need to go OLB, but a guy like Ivy who runs in the 4.7-4.8 range wouldnt be a better pick over an Anthony Heygood, or Tyrone McKenzie. Personally I really like Jason Phillips and Zack Follett here most of all over anybody else. Phillips is a punishing tacklet and Follett may have some of the best play recognition skills in the Pac 10 which is saying alot with guys like Mauluga out there.

Harrell is too small for me to really like. He can fling the ball make all the throws and reads defenses pretty well but his size and lack of athleticism really hurt him in my opinion. I like guys like Mike Reilly, Jason Boltus, Tyler Lorenzen, and Rhett Bomar all more. I dont know that Harrell can really add much weigh to his frame, so I dont see him as a player with a lot of upside at this moment.

I dont where you got the FB you draft from because he's only a junior and not even on my radar screen for 2010. Id prefer guys like Brannan Southerland, Eric Kettani, Brock Bolen, Fui Vakapuna, or Tyler Roehl.

I like the Vasquez pick a lot I think its a smart pick and he provides good run blocking and pass blocking skills. While he has upside he is a not a project pick by any means.

Overall Id give your draft a C-. You pick good players for the most part but ignore glaring holes at TE, OLB, and S. You confidence in Bowen is not shared by me, and I dont feel as though you do enough to shore up our WR corp either. Needless to say I would be quite dissapointed if our draft went in this direction, because it would show further confusion and lack of direction on the part of the Tripod of Dysfunction.

Harrell too small? Hes listed as 6' 3" 205, thats just fine.

[DraftBoy]

Harrell too small? Hes listed as 6' 3" 205, thats just fine.

6'2, 205, ideal is 6'4, 215. Harrel at his size and lack of athleticism would be harmed from putting on much more weight.

Also some people are whispering that he's closer to 6'0, 6'1 and that the media guy gave him a boost in his height.

[X-Era]

6'2, 205, ideal is 6'4, 215. Harrel at his size and lack of athleticism would be harmed from putting on much more weight.

Also some people are whispering that he's closer to 6'0, 6'1 and that the media guy gave him a boost in his height.

if hes 6' or over, hes fine.

[DraftBoy]

if hes 6' or over, hes fine.

No he's really not, we have one of the biggest OL in football; Peters 6'4, Dockery 6'6, Preston 6'5, Butler 6'7, Walker 6'8. We need a taller QB to see the passing lanes properly.

[X-Era]

No he's really not, we have one of the biggest OL in football; Peters 6'4, Dockery 6'6, Preston 6'5, Butler 6'7, Walker 6'8. We need a taller QB to see the passing lanes properly.

No we really dont... just ask Drew Brees

[DraftBoy]

:rofl: comparing to Brees to Harrell?? I think you're reaching here...

[X-Era]

:rofl: comparing to Brees to Harrell?? I think you're reaching here...

Check the height. Thats all the comparison was about.

[gr8slayer]

:rofl: comparing to Brees to Harrell?? I think you're reaching here...
Brees also might be the strongest QB in the NFL right now (strength wise)

[Jersey1031]

Harrell is too small for me to really like. He can fling the ball make all the throws and reads defenses pretty well but his size and lack of athleticism really hurt him in my opinion. I like guys like Mike Reilly, Jason Boltus, Tyler Lorenzen, and Rhett Bomar all more. I dont know that Harrell can really add much weigh to his frame, so I dont see him as a player with a lot of upside at this moment.


Tyler Lorenzen sucks!

[BillsWin]

Well first off your entire thread is off base since you won't acknowledge where you have us picking here. So if we finish in the mid teens I think Orakpo is a solid pick, as would be Curry, but if we lose out then Johnson would be the better pick, or if we win out it would probably be Hardy. So based just on that, I dont like speculation on taking a guy without knowing what part of the round we are picking in, because you set yourself up for too many what ifs.

I like Orakpo as a player he has a good inside move, and can effectively bull rush and use his speed to the outside. He is athletic enough to run down plays after they get past him or to the other sideline. He has good tackling technique and good hand placement to keep OT's off of him. I think he is a pretty complete back but he does poesses the same issue that Kelsay and Denney do and that is that he is susceptible to losing containment. He is so eager to make a play he will lose his assignment and can be beaten back to his own side on a cut back run or a reverse. Also I fear that he will try and use his athleticism (by far his best attribute at his size) in the NFL when he first gets in and struggle as a rookie. While he has a good inside move (well against Big 12 OT's) I dont see the confidence in it, that other DE's show like Hardy. He won't go inside on a big play, he always speed rushes to the outside. That wont work in the NFL.

Vince Oghobaase is a big DT at 6'6, 310 and an ideal 3-4 DT with that frame. He will put on weight for the combine and probably be closer to 330-340. He is right now closer to 325. So he really doesnt fit our DT scheme, and we aren't changing to a 3-4 in the offseason, so I dont think thats a good pick at all. I do like Oghobaase's skill level and what he brings to the field but I think he'll be a Round 1 pick and that he is a 3-4 DT.

Round to early for Caldwell. I dont think any OC really stands out over the rest. Round 4 is where Id go OC, and that would be one of Mack, Caldwell, Luigis, Shipley, or Wood. So I dont think Round 3 is the most optimal position to go OC but I wouldnt be extremely upset over it either.

Ivy isnt a bad pick and we certainly need to go OLB, but a guy like Ivy who runs in the 4.7-4.8 range wouldnt be a better pick over an Anthony Heygood, or Tyrone McKenzie. Personally I really like Jason Phillips and Zack Follett here most of all over anybody else. Phillips is a punishing tacklet and Follett may have some of the best play recognition skills in the Pac 10 which is saying alot with guys like Mauluga out there.

Harrell is too small for me to really like. He can fling the ball make all the throws and reads defenses pretty well but his size and lack of athleticism really hurt him in my opinion. I like guys like Mike Reilly, Jason Boltus, Tyler Lorenzen, and Rhett Bomar all more. I dont know that Harrell can really add much weigh to his frame, so I dont see him as a player with a lot of upside at this moment.

I dont where you got the FB you draft from because he's only a junior and not even on my radar screen for 2010. Id prefer guys like Brannan Southerland, Eric Kettani, Brock Bolen, Fui Vakapuna, or Tyler Roehl.

I like the Vasquez pick a lot I think its a smart pick and he provides good run blocking and pass blocking skills. While he has upside he is a not a project pick by any means.

Overall Id give your draft a C-. You pick good players for the most part but ignore glaring holes at TE, OLB, and S. You confidence in Bowen is not shared by me, and I dont feel as though you do enough to shore up our WR corp either. Needless to say I would be quite dissapointed if our draft went in this direction, because it would show further confusion and lack of direction on the part of the Tripod of Dysfunction.


well Im definetly glad you gave your input. Youre right about oghobaase, I may have jumped the gun not thinking about 3-4 vs 4-3 implications. his size and strength and skills got me drooling.

As for Orakpo, I think we will pick 13th, 14th or 15th in the draft, about mid teens, and Im hoping he drops. I love the guy. I was at the OU Texas game and he was fun to watch.

See, I dont like us taking a center too early, but IMO it is a huge glaring need. 3rd to 4th round would be a good time to pick one. and as you said I wouldnt be disapointed if we went third either. (or fourth as you are suggesting.)


As for shoring up TE, while I feel we don't have a HUGE playmaker, I may be the only bills fan in the world who likes what he sees from fine and shouman. and even Royal at times.

As for WR,

I like Evans, Hardy, Reed, Parrish, Johnson and Jenkins. I like all 6. I think they all have certain skills and assets to offer next season and drafting a WR shouldnt be done unless they are the last available.

Harrell is a pretty good viable backup option IMO, and anyone can add weight to their frame and at 6'3'' he's not exactly tiny.

So to address your needs, I like our TE's but feel if we wanted to get one this season we get a vet from somewhere. I for one, like our WRs, and they will only get better as the rookies learn.

as for saftey, Im not sure, but I think Dawkins is a FA this year (not that we'll get them).

Thanks for the critisism I was asking for it.

[PECKERWOOD]

Brees also might be the strongest QB in the NFL right now (strength wise)

Any QB who can wing the ball 50 times each week for 16 games a year is pretty strong. Strength and endurance go hand and hand, imho.

[DraftBoy]

Any QB who can wing the ball 50 times each week for 16 games a year is pretty strong. Strength and endurance go hand and hand, imho.

Majority of Harrel's passes are under 15 yards, alot of his yards come via YAC. He doesnt just throw 50 bombs a game and to compare Harrell to Brees strength and endurance is an insult to Brees. That guy is unbelievably strong.

[X-Era]

Majority of Harrel's passes are under 15 yards, alot of his yards come via YAC. He doesnt just throw 50 bombs a game and to compare Harrell to Brees strength and endurance is an insult to Brees. That guy is unbelievably strong.

Tech has a passing first game for sure, but even last night, you saw Harrell throwing nice 20-30 yarders that were on the money. He can wing it.

Edwards was very small in the arms when he came to us and this year he bulked up. I have no doubt that Harrell could do the same thing.

Im not saying hes the only guy at QB, or even the best. But I like his pocket presence which weve seen has become critical for us. He can make all the throws and has a live arm.

Hes a good option.

[ryjam282]

Am I the only one that it seems like we are always talking DE in the 1st when it comes to the draft? Every year on this board we are talking about this....I may be bashed for this, but I think Schobel is just fine. I think him and Stroud can be beat single coverage blocking and at least one of them will command a double team during the game. I mean, when Schobel was healthy this year, he was getting double teamed and Stroud was playing very well. Now, with Schobel out, he is getting the doubles and no one is stepping up and beating anyone 1 on 1. I really think that our biggest hole on D, is at OLB. Neither of them are very good in coverage and Pittman's best attribute is rushing the passer. I don't think Ellison is all that good and I think that we are missing Crowell in this respect very sorely. He was an above average coverage LB and Ellison is not. That is my 2 cents and let me hear what you think of that..

[X-Era]

Am I the only one that it seems like we are always talking DE in the 1st when it comes to the draft? Every year on this board we are talking about this....I may be bashed for this, but I think Schobel is just fine. I think him and Stroud can be beat single coverage blocking and at least one of them will command a double team during the game. I mean, when Schobel was healthy this year, he was getting double teamed and Stroud was playing very well. Now, with Schobel out, he is getting the doubles and no one is stepping up and beating anyone 1 on 1. I really think that our biggest hole on D, is at OLB. Neither of them are very good in coverage and Pittman's best attribute is rushing the passer. I don't think Ellison is all that good and I think that we are missing Crowell in this respect very sorely. He was an above average coverage LB and Ellison is not. That is my 2 cents and let me hear what you think of that..

I ran a post on this a while ago... pass rush is our lowest ranking vs. the rest of the league. The only way you beat Tom and the Pats is by rushing the **** out of him as the Giants proved.

So yes, DE is a top priority for a team that cant rush well. Id also like to add Terrell Suggs who will add a ton right off the bat to our rush.

[DraftBoy]

Tech has a passing first game for sure, but even last night, you saw Harrell throwing nice 20-30 yarders that were on the money. He can wing it.

Edwards was very small in the arms when he came to us and this year he bulked up. I have no doubt that Harrell could do the same thing.

Im not saying hes the only guy at QB, or even the best. But I like his pocket presence which weve seen has become critical for us. He can make all the throws and has a live arm.

Hes a good option.


Nobody said they didnt, but even last night he threw majority of his passes under 15 yards, He's got a good arm but no way in hell does he have a Drew Brees arm.

Edwards was also 6'4 and had a frame that was easy to add bulk to Harrell doesnt have that. He's already extremely limited athletically adding bulk may further limit him. Not every QB can easily add weight or muscle. It does change things for them.

I dont like him as an option for us and its not because I think he's a gimmick QB either. I think he has the tools to be an average NFL QB but nothing special. Never once when Ive watched him have I said, wow this kid has it, or seen him make an amazing play. He's thrown a good ball and had amazing WR's. His passing accuracy is not where Id like it to be at this point for Senior, 3 year starter. I also don't like his lack of athleticism and his height does bother me.

[ryjam282]

Rushing is one thing. I agree that we need to blitz more, the Cleveland game we saw the blitz work and us blitz more often. But, when we are not blitzing, we need to generate some kind of pressure and I think with what we have on the D-line, we are OK. Don't get me wrong, if there is not better player on the board when it's our pick, take a DE but I don't necessarily think it's a huge need for us. I think OLB is, and if we got Suggs, I would honestly cream myself....He would solidify that LB core and we would be back to where we were with Spikes, Fletcher, and Crowell....I don't think that will happen as it clearly makes too much sense....I agree with the other poster about TE being a bigger need. If we were to land Gonzo, our O would have been MUCH better. I mean, it's obvious how much Edwards checks down to Royal who can't get open consistently and Gonzo would have been a much bigger presence and reliability factor for him....

[DraftBoy]

Am I the only one that it seems like we are always talking DE in the 1st when it comes to the draft? Every year on this board we are talking about this....I may be bashed for this, but I think Schobel is just fine. I think him and Stroud can be beat single coverage blocking and at least one of them will command a double team during the game. I mean, when Schobel was healthy this year, he was getting double teamed and Stroud was playing very well. Now, with Schobel out, he is getting the doubles and no one is stepping up and beating anyone 1 on 1. I really think that our biggest hole on D, is at OLB. Neither of them are very good in coverage and Pittman's best attribute is rushing the passer. I don't think Ellison is all that good and I think that we are missing Crowell in this respect very sorely. He was an above average coverage LB and Ellison is not. That is my 2 cents and let me hear what you think of that..


Well you are correct that for 2 or 3 years now people have been calling for a DE. And I dont think most people have a huge issue with Schobel aside from his age and prior to this year he was run game liability. The issue is the other side, we generate little pass rush when Schobel is in and none when he is out. You gotta get somebody on the other side to punish teams for keying on Schobel. Ideally you need three good DE's to rotate in and out.

I agree OLB is a big hole, but Mitchell is very good (not sure who Pittman is actually), but there is only one OLB worth taking in the top 20 and thats Aaron Curry and his stock is all over the place its hard to pin point where he is going right now.

[DraftBoy]

Rushing is one thing. I agree that we need to blitz more, the Cleveland game we saw the blitz work and us blitz more often. But, when we are not blitzing, we need to generate some kind of pressure and I think with what we have on the D-line, we are OK. Don't get me wrong, if there is not better player on the board when it's our pick, take a DE but I don't necessarily think it's a huge need for us. I think OLB is, and if we got Suggs, I would honestly cream myself....He would solidify that LB core and we would be back to where we were with Spikes, Fletcher, and Crowell....I don't think that will happen as it clearly makes too much sense....I agree with the other poster about TE being a bigger need. If we were to land Gonzo, our O would have been MUCH better. I mean, it's obvious how much Edwards checks down to Royal who can't get open consistently and Gonzo would have been a much bigger presence and reliability factor for him....


How do you figure that with the DL we have we are ok at generating pressure? We have been brutal this year in generating pressure with our front four, with or without Schobel.

[ryjam282]

Well you are correct that for 2 or 3 years now people have been calling for a DE. And I dont think most people have a huge issue with Schobel aside from his age and prior to this year he was run game liability. The issue is the other side, we generate little pass rush when Schobel is in and none when he is out. You gotta get somebody on the other side to punish teams for keying on Schobel. Ideally you need three good DE's to rotate in and out.

I agree OLB is a big hole, but Mitchell is very good (not sure who Pittman is actually), but there is only one OLB worth taking in the top 20 and thats Aaron Curry and his stock is all over the place its hard to pin point where he is going right now.


LOL, Pittman, thanks for pointing that out...I obviously meant Mitchell....LOL, mi malo.

Now, I love me some Kavika. I agree with you about the other side of Schobel, we could definitely benefit from someone else over there but I don't think that is our #1 priority on D. I also think that free agency is a good spot to get that, not the first round of the draft. There are plenty of decent run stuffing DE's or hybrid (run/pass rush) DE's available for little money. Especially when we are talking about a rotation. Not too many teams have 2 very solid DE's. They mostly have a solid one with a solid DT, which I think we have. The other guys play their gaps and do their jobs.

[ryjam282]

How do you figure that with the DL we have we are ok at generating pressure? We have been brutal this year in generating pressure with our front four, with or without Schobel.


When Schobel was in there, we were MUCH better at it. Now, were we good? Not in the least, but I think the combination of us not blitzing but maybe 2 times a game that teams were making the adjustments and with not having any good backups, it wasn't a consistent pass rush. When Schobel and Stroud were in there, I think it was good.

[DraftBoy]

LOL, Pittman, thanks for pointing that out...I obviously meant Mitchell....LOL, mi malo.

Now, I love me some Kavika. I agree with you about the other side of Schobel, we could definitely benefit from someone else over there but I don't think that is our #1 priority on D. I also think that free agency is a good spot to get that, not the first round of the draft. There are plenty of decent run stuffing DE's or hybrid (run/pass rush) DE's available for little money. Especially when we are talking about a rotation. Not too many teams have 2 very solid DE's. They mostly have a solid one with a solid DT, which I think we have. The other guys play their gaps and do their jobs.


I dont agree at all about the availability of these players. There are very few and its rare to find a guy who is a good all-around DE. Even Schobel until this year wasn't that. Its not as easy and just looking at FA.

Lots of teams have two good DE's in the 4-3 scheme;
Falcons-John Abraham and then took DE Jamal Anderson in the 1st Round
Carolina-Julius Peppers and Charles Johnson
Saints-Will Johnson and Charles Grant
Giants-Justin Tuck and Osi Uymenyiora
Chicago-Ogunleye, Mark Anderson, and Alex Brown
Denver-John Engleberger, Elvis Dumervil, and then took Jarvis Moss in Round 1
Indy-Dwight Freeney and Raheem Brock
Minnesota-Jared Allen and Ray Edwards
Tennessee-Jevon Kearse and Kyle Vanden Bosche

[DraftBoy]

When Schobel was in there, we were MUCH better at it. Now, were we good? Not in the least, but I think the combination of us not blitzing but maybe 2 times a game that teams were making the adjustments and with not having any good backups, it wasn't a consistent pass rush. When Schobel and Stroud were in there, I think it was good.

I disagree I think it was brutal and a poor excuse for front four pressure.

[X-Era]

Rushing is one thing. I agree that we need to blitz more, the Cleveland game we saw the blitz work and us blitz more often. But, when we are not blitzing, we need to generate some kind of pressure and I think with what we have on the D-line, we are OK. Don't get me wrong, if there is not better player on the board when it's our pick, take a DE but I don't necessarily think it's a huge need for us. I think OLB is, and if we got Suggs, I would honestly cream myself....He would solidify that LB core and we would be back to where we were with Spikes, Fletcher, and Crowell....I don't think that will happen as it clearly makes too much sense....I agree with the other poster about TE being a bigger need. If we were to land Gonzo, our O would have been MUCH better. I mean, it's obvious how much Edwards checks down to Royal who can't get open consistently and Gonzo would have been a much bigger presence and reliability factor for him....

What I like is that yopur talking major upgrades, what I dislike is that your skipping the D-line which has been sub-par this season.

[kernowboy]

I would like to see the draft going like this

R1. Everette Brown, LE/DE, Florida St, 6ft4 and 250lbs
If the junior comes out, then I think we can plug him in at left end opposite Schobel as I think Denney is in the final year of his contract.

R2. Marcus Freeman, OLB, Ohio St, 6ft2 and 243lbs
With Crowell injured and unlikely to be resigned, then we need to look at an LB to replace him as we have no depth now that we are starting Ellison

R3. Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson, 6ft4 and 313lbs
With McCargo seemingly unlike to play again, a big DT for the rotation would be very useful

R4. A Q Shipley, C, Penn St, 6ft1 and 298lbs
A leader and captain and replacement for Fowler. Another possibility could be Max Unger of Oregon bigger but not as strong

R5. Tom Brandstater, QB, Fresno St, 6ft5 and 220lbs
If JP leaves we need a backup. If the juniors come out and with the seniors slipping, we might be able to get a very good backup, challenger for Trent on Day2. Brandstater has improved every season, not regressing like some of his compatriots.

R6. Dan Growkowski, TE, Maryland, 6ft6 and 255lbs
A reputation as a blocking TE, but has started catching the ball in the redzone to good effect. Another possibility might be John Phillips of Virginia but I expect him to go earlier. The quality here is not as good as it first appears and personally I'd rather wait to 2010 to draft his brother Rob from Arizona


R7. Scott Burley, G, Maryland, 6ft5 and 311lbs
A second Terrapin but plays through pain and can play inside and out on the righthandside.

So the first part of the draft focuses on the defence and second half on the defence. With Denney, Crowell, Losman and Fowler coming to the end of their contracts and with McCargo possibly being replaced on a medical, they will need to be replaced on the roster.

[gr8slayer]

I disagree I think it was brutal and a poor excuse for front four pressure.
It's been brutal for years now, but there's no doubt that it is at least better when Schobel is in there.