Happy? Yes...BUT! [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Ebenezer

11-23-2008, 06:43 PM

OK, time for me to hit the pessimism button. Don't get me wrong I am happy they won but how do you give up 31 points to that team? Moreover, check the running stats...the Bills basically shut them down but gave up four runs of longer than 20 yards. That's inexcusable. The defense was still porous and another team would have put a 50 spot on us. The way the offense played they should have put up more and it could really have been one of the biggest blow outs ever. Today showed that this defense is just not ready to lead a playoff team.

FatalShot

11-23-2008, 06:48 PM

We should make clones of McKelvin and put him at every defensive position!

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 06:49 PM

The team isn't ready to be a playoff team yet, not just the defense. But they have no doubt made huge strides from last year and the year before. I said at the start of the year that they are two years away and I still think they are. But you'd be stupid not to recognize that they are getting there, slowly but surely.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 06:52 PM

Dr. Lecter

11-23-2008, 06:55 PM

Perry Fool just isn't a good coach and he is somebody that must be replaced at the end of the season...whether Dickey is here or not!

I don't think it is Fewell's (Fool was funny the first 500 times - didn't you tell Sue to get off Edwards in the Gameday thread?) fault when players miss tackles or are badly out of position.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 06:57 PM

I don't think it is Fewell's (Fool was funny the first 500 times - didn't you tell Sue to get off Edwards in the Gameday thread?) fault when players miss tackles or are badly out of position.

Well, until he proves he isn't a fool, then that's what he gets called. I don't even need to argue this with you...he's bad and there is no arguement.

HHURRICANE

11-23-2008, 07:04 PM

Romeo Crennel as our D coordinator.

chernobylwraiths

11-23-2008, 07:17 PM

No serious pass rushing DE, Keith Ellison as a starting OLB and injured DBs and it's Fewell's fault?

chernobylwraiths

11-23-2008, 07:19 PM

BTW Eb, I posted it first. :D

But since you asked. My questions:

1. Why was Edwards still in there late in the game?
2. Why was Edwards still throwing the ball with a 30 point lead?
3. Why the hell did we kneel the ball down and give it back to them? At least run the ball and try to get a first.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 07:28 PM

No serious pass rushing DE, Keith Ellison as a starting OLB and injured DBs and it's Fewell's fault?

And who decided that these backups were good enough to play for this defense? Yes, Perry Fool has say on who is on his defense. You excuse makers are funny.

hydro

11-23-2008, 07:32 PM

And who decided that these backups were good enough to play for this defense? Yes, Perry Fool has say on who is on his defense. You excuse makers are funny.

People that always blame coaching on everything are funny too. Should we have brought in every elite player there was on the market? THEY ARE BACKUPS! You won't find world burners that want to be backups.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 07:33 PM

People that always blame coaching on everything are funny too. Should we have brought in every elite player there was on the market? THEY ARE BACKUPS! You won't find world burners that want to be backups.

If it wasn't right, it would be funny. However, since it is right, there really isn't anything funny about it.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 07:34 PM

People that always blame coaching on everything are funny too. Should we have brought in every elite player there was on the market? THEY ARE BACKUPS! You won't find world burners that want to be backups.

By the way, the people who try to say it isn't coaching, say we don't have enough talent. Well, guess what? The coach gets a say who stays and who goes on this roster...he's kept a lot of garbage.

Dr. Lecter

11-23-2008, 08:05 PM

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:08 PM

So who should have they kept over these guys?

Coy Wire might have been nice (who is still in the NFL, btw). But other than that, who did they have better than the guys they have?

These guys are back-ups for a reason. You don't get starter production out of back-ups.
:meh: there are a few guys who have been pretty good with other teams but they haven't been anything amazing. Jim Leonard has done a good job in Baltimore, Bannan has done well, Jennings was doing okay before injuries hit, Stamer has made a few good plays, Haggan is up to be a possible starter in Denver and has done some good things on ST's, but really, that's about it.

That being said, the Bills screwed up letting Fletcher go. Posluszny is not fit for a C2 MLB and would have been better off on the outside with Fletcher in the middle. It would have also kept the veteran leadership this team needs so bad.

Nate Clemets got destroyed by T.O. today and Spikes got to meet the Barbarian in the hole and the Barbarian won. :snicker:

Mad Bomber

11-23-2008, 08:10 PM

Happy? Yes....BUT!

Kiss my BUT!

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:11 PM

No serious pass rushing DE, Keith Ellison as a starting OLB and injured DBs and it's Fewell's fault?

Yes and no.

No doubt we have some talent limitations, but it's the D coordinator's job to get the most out of what he has. Not every team can have the Steelers' or Giants' D. And no one expects Fewell to get the results with our players that they get with their players because it's just not going to happen. But he's still responsible for the D and right now there are some serious flaws in the scheme that have nothing to do with talent level.

Dr. Lecter

11-23-2008, 08:12 PM

:meh: there are a few guys who have been pretty good with other teams but they haven't been anything amazing. Jim Leonard has done a good job in Baltimore, Bannan has done well, Jennings was doing okay before injuries hit, Stamer has made a few good plays, Haggan is up to be a possible starter in Denver and has done some good things on ST's, but really, that's about it.

Nate Clemets got destroyed by T.O. today and Spikes got to meet the Barbarian in the hole and the Barbarian won. :snicker:

As I recall, he wanted all of those guys outta here as well. (except for maybe Nate)

hydro

11-23-2008, 08:13 PM

right now there are some serious flaws in the scheme that have nothing to do with talent level.

Like what?

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:14 PM

As I recall, he wanted all of those guys outta here as well. (except for may Nate)
Out of the mentioned players I wish the Bills had kept Bannan and Leonard based on the way they've played this season. But anyone who plays defense for the Ravens and gets to play next to Ray Lewis usually turns into a pretty good player.

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:15 PM

Like what?
There are some players who are currently out of place in the C2 defense. I would like to see a more complicated blitz scheme and more man coverage.

hydro

11-23-2008, 08:17 PM

A.)There are some players who are currently out of place in the C2 defense.
B.)I would like to see a more complicated blitz scheme and more man coverage.
Could B be a result of A??

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:19 PM

Could B be a result of A??
Good point, that's a possibility. Honestly, the C2/T2 is the most dangerous and confusing defense a QB can face, but unlike other D's you can't just plug random players in; everyone has to be fit to play their particular position. The same doesn't necessarily apply to the CB's but the front seven require special players, and the Bills leave a lot to be desired on the front seven.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:21 PM

As I recall, he wanted all of those guys outta here as well. (except for maybe Nate)

I love how you speak for me! I don't understand people who constantly make excuses. What a joke.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:23 PM

Good point, that's a possibility. Honestly, the C2/T2 is the most dangerous and confusing defense a QB can face, but unlike other D's you can't just plug random players in; everyone has to be fit to play their particular position. The same doesn't necessarily apply to the CB's but the front seven require special players, and the Bills leave a lot to be desired on the front seven.

It's been said many times over on here, this defense does not fit a lot of the players on this team. But isn't it the coach's job to put the players in the best scheme that suits the personnel or am I missing something? That's is my point, we keep trying fit square pegs into round holes.

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:23 PM

Good point, that's a possibility. Honestly, the C2/T2 is the most dangerous and confusing defense a QB can face, but unlike other D's you can't just plug random players in; everyone has to be fit to play their particular position. The same doesn't necessarily apply to the CB's but the front seven require special players, and the Bills leave a lot to be desired on the front seven.

I've been trying to say that since we implemented the T2. It requires almost the perfect personnel and at least one freak of an athlete like Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp, Bob Sanders. The Bills don't have any of that, which is why it doesn't work.

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:24 PM

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:25 PM

square pegs are cheaper than round pegs.

That probably is it! Great point!

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:26 PM

I've been trying to say that since we implemented the T2. It requires almost the perfect personnel and at least one freak of an athlete like Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp, Bob Sanders. The Bills don't have any of that, which is why it doesn't work.
Yeah, you basically start from the DL and work your way up. If your DL can't provide a pass rush you might as well run a different defense because it isn't going to happen. The Bills have one good rusher in Schobel but they need someone else who can flat out destroy on the other side. The Colts have this great combination in Mathis and Freeney, they open it up for the interior DL to do their damage which opens it up for the other seven players on the defense to cause their destruction. It's an amazing domino effect.

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:27 PM

It's been said many times over on here, this defense does not fit a lot of the players on this team. But isn't it the coach's job to put the players in the best scheme that suits the personnel or am I missing something? That's is my point, we keep trying fit square pegs into round holes.
Well, it goes beyond the coaching staff when the players being drafted don't fit it themselves. Generally speaking, the coach has say in who is drafted but the ultimate decision goes to the GM; problem is, the Bills don't have a GM so there's really no one to lay the blame on.

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:28 PM

square pegs are cheaper than round pegs.
Come on Op, you and I both know that the money being spent is hardly the problem. It has more to do with the football I.Q. of the people spending the money; they simply aren't making the right choices.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:29 PM

Well, it goes beyond the coaching staff when the players being drafted don't fit it themselves. Generally speaking the coach has say in who is drafted but the ultimate decision goes to the GM; problem is, the Bills don't have a GM so there's really no one to lay the blame on.

Then it goes to the ultimate problem with this organization and that is the owner.

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:29 PM

Like what?

1. Over-pursuit. On LJ's long run, Kelsay went straight after the QB and never even looked at the RB. For years, Schobel has just torn upfield around the tackle and left a huge running lane open. Everyone on the team tries too hard to swarm to the ball and bites on every single play fake.

2. Gap between the 1st and second level of the D. The LB's take deep drops in pass coverage, so if a runner gets through the first level or a WR runs an underneath route, there is TONS of open field where the opposing offense's playmakers can make our guys miss.

3. Deep zone- the D is based on giving up the big play, but that requires a S to drop deep and it leaves a bunch of soft spots in the zone.

4. Over-reliance on a zone that creates mismatches. How many times this season have we seen a stud TE or a WR matched up on one of our LB's (who are pretty piss-poor at pass coverage)? We don't play enough man and we don't double star players enough.

Anyone else care to add to the list?

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:30 PM

Then it goes to the ultimate problem with this organization and that is the owner.
And this has been my point for years now, I'm glad someone else agrees.

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:31 PM

Come on Op, you and I both know that the money being spent is hardly the problem. It has more to do with the football I.Q. of the people spending the money; they simply aren't making the right choices.

it depends. The notion that Ralph is cheap has been mostly dispelled, but the Bills still rely far too much on unknown players and recent draft picks to make an impact and it rarely works.

I definitely agree that the Bills don't spend money wisely though. They rarely get production from some of the highest paid players, and that's a definite losing formula.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:31 PM

And this has been my point for years now, I'm glad someone else agrees.

I've thought this for sometime, but it's taboo to criticize him because people are so scared that we'll lose the team. This guy is a joke and pretty much has always been.

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:33 PM

Yeah, you basically start from the DL and work your way up. If your DL can't provide a pass rush you might as well run a different defense because it isn't going to happen. The Bills have one good rusher in Schobel but they need someone else who can flat out destroy on the other side. The Colts have this great combination in Mathis and Freeney, they open it up for the interior DL to do their damage which opens it up for the other seven players on the defense to cause their destruction. It's an amazing domino effect.

The scary part is that it's not due to lack of effort. A week or so ago, I listed all the moves that the post-Donahoe era has made on the DL and they have done a lot of work in terms of re-signings, FA's, trades and drafting, but so far it hasn't paid off.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:35 PM

The scary part is that it's not due to lack of effort. A week or so ago, I listed all the moves that the post-Donahoe era has made on the DL and they have done a lot of work in terms of re-signings, FA's, trades and drafting, but so far it hasn't paid off.

It's pretty obvious if you overpay for garbage...ie Kelsey...then it won't improve. This team needs to start doing their homework and they need to bring in playmakers...not just guys they "like". If I here Dickey say that one more time, I'm going to puke!

gr8slayer

11-23-2008, 08:36 PM

The scary part is that it's not due to lack of effort. A week or so ago, I listed all the moves that the post-Donahoe era has made on the DL and they have done a lot of work in terms of re-signings, FA's, trades and drafting, but so far it hasn't paid off.
That would be an interesting list to see, you should post it sometime.

There's no doubt that they have tried, but again, it takes a special type of player to play in the C2. It's a very complicated defense and you have to actually have a brain to make it work.

The front four for the C2 is kind of like the Nose for the 3-4. If you don't have one you might as well give up.

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:37 PM

That would be an interesting list to see, you should post it sometime.

There's no doubt that they have tried, but again, it takes a special type of player to play in the C2. It's a very complicated defense and you have to actually have a brain to make it work.

No wonder Perry has a tough time putting guys in position to be successful!

OpIv37

11-23-2008, 08:45 PM

It's pretty obvious if you overpay for garbage...ie Kelsey...then it won't improve. This team needs to start doing their homework and they need to bring in playmakers...not just guys they "like". If I here Dickey say that one more time, I'm going to puke!

but Kelsay has a "high motor"!

Nighthawk

11-23-2008, 08:47 PM

but Kelsay has a "high motor"!

That must be why he is always out of position...it drives him out of position!

chernobylwraiths

11-24-2008, 06:20 AM

1. Over-pursuit. On LJ's long run, Kelsay went straight after the QB and never even looked at the RB. For years, Schobel has just torn upfield around the tackle and left a huge running lane open. Everyone on the team tries too hard to swarm to the ball and bites on every single play fake.

2. Gap between the 1st and second level of the D. The LB's take deep drops in pass coverage, so if a runner gets through the first level or a WR runs an underneath route, there is TONS of open field where the opposing offense's playmakers can make our guys miss.

3. Deep zone- the D is based on giving up the big play, but that requires a S to drop deep and it leaves a bunch of soft spots in the zone.

4. Over-reliance on a zone that creates mismatches. How many times this season have we seen a stud TE or a WR matched up on one of our LB's (who are pretty piss-poor at pass coverage)? We don't play enough man and we don't double star players enough.

Anyone else care to add to the list?

DEs trying to cover RB out of the backfield?