QBs After Kelly [Archive] - BillsZone.com

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 09:13 AM

Someone posted a poll a while back about who has been the worst QB for the Bills since Kelly and it sparked a little debate. I've had some free time recently so I decided to do a little research on those quarterbacks and their time spent in Buffalo. Honestly, the numbers are somewhat surprising.

For the sake of having some conversation and not just posting the numbers, lets stretch this out for part of the day.

Does anybody want to give a shot as to who had the best winning percentage as a starter and who was the worst?

I'd also like to note it will be easier to throw Holcomb, Van Pelt, and Collins out of the mix since they all started less than 20 games in Buffalo. This will make the comparison much more fair between the others.

The King

11-26-2008, 09:16 AM

I would have to say its Drew or Flutie

And JP

DraftBoy

11-26-2008, 09:16 AM

Flutie had top win pct, just a guess

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 09:17 AM

Flutie W and Robosack L

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 09:32 AM

You guys are on the right path...kinda.

Flutie had the best winning percentage as a starer (.700) posting a 21-9 record. Edwards is next with an 11-9 record. The rest are all below .500.

Bledsoe is the best of the worst with a 23-25 record followed by Johnson (9-17) and Losman (10-21). Losman has one more win but with more games started Johnson has the better winning percentage.

If I were to include the "thrown away" quarterbacks only Van Pelt would have posted a worse winning percentage than Losman.

Anyone wanna guess completion percentage and QB rating?

Philagape

11-26-2008, 09:35 AM

Johnson's the highest-rated, right?

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 09:36 AM

Johnson's the highest-rated, right?

Yep. He also had the third best touchdown to interception ratio. Guess who is the worst td/int ratio.

DraftBoy

11-26-2008, 09:50 AM

Bledsoe

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 09:52 AM

Yep. He also had the third best touchdown to interception ratio. Guess who is the worst td/int ratio.
I'm not surprised. Hard to throw INTs when you're throwing sideways to Larry Centers most of the time because you're too gay to take chances throwing downfield.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 09:54 AM

This isn't quite working out the way I wanted but oh well.

You're wrong DB.

Edwards has the worst with -1. He has thrown for 17 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. Obviously that is bound to change this season.

Losman would be next with 2 more TDs than INTs.

Johnson had 10, Bledsoe had 12, and Flutie had 17.

So basically if Edwards can finish the season with +3 or better ratio that would make Losman the worst in that category.

gr8slayer

11-26-2008, 09:56 AM

I would have said Flutie.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 09:59 AM

I would have said Flutie.

Flutie had 47 touchdowns to only 30 interceptions.

It's the same number of picks that Losman has thrown in 1 less game started (same amount played), however it's far more touchdowns. Only Bledsoe threw more (55) but also started in 18 more games (9 played) .

Historian

11-26-2008, 10:05 AM

All sucked.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 10:11 AM

All sucked.

Thank you for your wonderful input.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 10:12 AM

I was hoping this would actually spark some debate because today is going sllloooowww but apparently not. Here are the numbers, keeping in mind Edwards will change by Sunday.

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mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2377" width=65><COL style="WIDTH: 23pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1133" width=31><COL style="WIDTH: 30pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1462" width=40><COL style="WIDTH: 63pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 3072" width=84><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 86pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=115 height=15></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 35pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=46>Games</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 19pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=25>GS</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50>W/L Rec</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=50>Win Pct.</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 25pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=33>Cmp</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 23pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=31>Att</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=42>Cmp%</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=40>Yds</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 19pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=25>TD</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 49pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=65>TD Per Gm</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 19pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=25>Int</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 49pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=65>Int Per Gm</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 23pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=31>Rate</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=40>Sacks</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 63pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=84>Sacks Per Gm</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=15>Drew Bledsoe</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>48</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>48</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">23-25</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.47899999999999998">0.479</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>905</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1531</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>59.1</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="10151">10,151</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>55</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="1.1458333333333333" x:fmla="=J2/B2">1.15</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>43</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.89583333333333337" x:fmla="=L2/B2">0.90</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>79.2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>140</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="2.9166666666666665" x:fmla="=O2/B2">2.92</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=15>JP Losman</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>39</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>31</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">10-21</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">0.322</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>510</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>858</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>59.4</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="5847">5,847</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>32</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.82051282051282048" x:fmla="=J3/B3">0.82</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>30</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.76923076923076927" x:fmla="=L3/B3">0.77</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>77.9</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>93</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="2.3846153846153846" x:fmla="=O3/B3">2.38</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=15>Doug Flutie</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>39</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>30</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">21-9</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>0.7</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>598</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>1063</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>56.3</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="7582">7,582</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>47</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="1.2051282051282051" x:fmla="=J4/B4">1.21</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>30</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.76923076923076927" x:fmla="=L4/B4">0.77</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>81.7</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>48</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="1.2307692307692308" x:fmla="=O4/B4">1.23</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=15>Rob Johnson</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>30</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>26</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">9-17</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">0.346</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>401</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>663</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>60.5</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="4798">4,798</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>27</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num x:fmla="=J5/B5">0.90</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>17</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.56666666666666665" x:fmla="=L5/B5">0.57</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>85.5</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>110</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="3.6666666666666665" x:fmla="=O5/B5">3.67</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 11.25pt" height=15><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=15>Trent Edwards</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>21</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>20</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">11-9</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">0.55</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>355</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>572</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>62.1</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="3896">3,896</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>17</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.80952380952380953" x:fmla="=J6/B6">0.81</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>18</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="0.8571428571428571" x:fmla="=L6/B6">0.86</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>79</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>32</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num="1.5238095238095237" x:fmla="=O6/B6">1.52</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Forward_Lateral

11-26-2008, 10:14 AM

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 10:15 AM

I was hoping this would actually spark some debate
you should get a warning for doing so.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 10:17 AM

Until I broke this down I didn't realize just how successful Flutie was in Buffalo.

The best part is I did some past stats and although there is no way to breakdown who they played, only 4 QB's out of 12 had above .500 records as a starter. Flutie , Edwards, Kelly, and Kemp.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 10:17 AM

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 10:17 AM

you should get a warning for doing so.

No, it's not a throwdown between Losman and Edwards. It's a comparison of all QB's since Kelly. There is a huge difference. I'm also not name calling and turning it into a fight, just presenting numbers. And to be honest, after this thread it should cease most of the fighting between the fans.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 10:23 AM

No, it's not a throwdown between Losman and Edwards. lets hope it doesn't turn out that way

It's a comparison of all QB's since Kelly. There is a huge difference. I'm also not name calling and turning it into a fight, just presenting numbers. And to be honest, after this thread it should cease most of the fighting between the fans..
wishful thinking on your part. This thread alone is sparking qb controversies whether it's in the past or present. It's been years since DF vs. RJ and yet we're still talking about it.

You would also have to consider when talking about qb's who their supporting casts and coaches were . You also have to consider the strength of the other AFCE during their time.

A lot of factors have to be taken into account when determining the success or failure of a qb.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 10:35 AM

Those things are near impossible to figure out. The only thing I could go on was their numbers while in Buffalo. The others are borderline impossible. The only thing we can go on is agreeing is that once Levy retired none have had great coaching staffs backing them up.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 10:39 AM

Those things are near impossible to figure out. The only thing I could go on was their numbers while in Buffalo. . wrs help a qbs nos too.

Flutie's nos. were padded by the fact that he simply threw the ball up in the air and Moulds did the rest.

Robosacks comp percentage were padded by the fact that he dumped off to Centers and would rather take a sack than take a chance doing what Flutie did by trusting Moulds to come down with the ball.

The only thing we can go on is agreeing is that once Levy retired none have had great coaching staffs backing them up. And that there was no better GM than Polian who built Marv Levy's team.

SABURZFAN

11-26-2008, 10:41 AM

they've ALL seemed horrible after Kelly. :(

trapezeus

11-26-2008, 10:52 AM

gr8slayer

11-26-2008, 10:54 AM

they've ALL seemed horrible after Kelly. :(
And they still are :ill:

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 10:55 AM

i'd love to know how flutie's stats hold up to other QB's at the time. Was he just one of the best Bills qb in recent memory, or was he in the top ten amongst all QBs?

good stat information by the way on all QB's.
Tom Donahoe was the biggest idiot for getting rid of the guy who saved the franchise in favor of the franchises worst qb besides getting rid of Pat Williams.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 10:56 AM

And they still are :ill:
I'm almost sure that BB could make Trent a 400 yd qb like he has with Cassel the last 2 games.

Jeff1220

11-26-2008, 11:10 AM

I'm almost sure that BB could make Trent a 400 yd qb like he has with Cassel the last 2 games.

Having Moss to toss it up to doesn't hurt either.

Thurmal

11-26-2008, 11:10 AM

It should be noted that Flutie had MUCH more to work with offensively than Johnson, and that he also was fortunate enough to start during a period when the Bills had, statistically, the best defense in the league.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 11:15 AM

Having Moss to toss it up to doesn't hurt either.

It doesn't but I remember when Brady threw for over 4000 yards without Moss even when people called him noodle arm.

BB just has the knack of making probowlers out of nobodies.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 11:15 AM

i'd love to know how flutie's stats hold up to other QB's at the time. Was he just one of the best Bills qb in recent memory, or was he in the top ten amongst all QBs?

good stat information by the way on all QB's..

I threw out 2000 because Flutie only started 5 games. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
In 1998 Flutie played in 13 games and started 10. His completion percentage was 57.1 which was good for 18<SUP>th</SUP> in the league. He threw 20 touchdowns which was tied for tied for 11<SUP>th</SUP> in the league. His QB rating was 87.4 which was 11<SUP>th</SUP> in the league. He also made the Pro-Bowl that season with Testaverde and Elway.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
In 1999 he played and started in 15 games. His comp percentage was 55.2 which was 28<SUP>th</SUP> in the league. He threw 19 touchdowns which was tied for 10<SUP>th</SUP> in the league. His QB rating was 75.1 which was 24<SUP>th</SUP> in the league.<o:p></o:p>

yordad

11-26-2008, 11:15 AM

Does anyone think Kelly's success might have had something to do with Kent Hull, Ballard, Wilford, Reed, Thomas, Lofton, Pete M., Marv Levy, et al.?

Win's is a team stat. And, I always thought Futie was the fan favorite. I mean, he even had "Flutie Flakes".

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 11:16 AM

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 11:16 AM

It doesn't but I remember when Brady threw for over 4000 yards without Moss even when people called him noodle arm.

BB just has the knack of making probowlers out of nobodies.

I wouldn't get too high on Cassell just yet. The last two games have been great statistically but two games doesn't make an entire body of work.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 11:16 AM

Does anyone think Kelly's success might have had something to do with Kent Hull, Ballard, Wilford, Reed, Thomas, Lofton, Pete M., Marv Levy, et al.?
no doubt.

SABURZFAN

11-26-2008, 11:18 AM

It should be noted that Flutie had MUCH more to work with offensively than Johnson

:roflmao:

you're kidding, right?

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 11:18 AM

I wouldn't get too high on Cassell just yet. The last two games have been great statistically but two games doesn't make an entire body of work.
I'm not too high on the guy at all but I'm sure Trent would be in a much better situation statistically if he was with the PAts. BB knows how to put his players in situations to succeed.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 11:30 AM

I'm not too high on the guy at all but I'm sure Trent would be in a much better situation statistically if he was with the PAts. BB knows how to put his players in situations to succeed.

So basically what you're saying is that BB is a better coach than DJ.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 11:38 AM

So basically what you're saying is that BB is a better coach than DJ.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

I hate to say it he's the best HC in this era or one of the best ever.

That wasn't my point either, my point is Trent is not such a bad QB, he's just not in the best situation .

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 11:40 AM

I hate to say it he's the best HC in this era or one of the best ever.

That wasn't my point either, my point is Trent is not such a bad QB, he's just not in the best situation .

He is the best in the league right now and could probably be considered one of the best ever as well. Problem is how much of it was really good coaching and how much has been aided by the video cameras? I guess without knowing it's a moot point.

Jan Reimers

11-26-2008, 11:44 AM

I never understood the hatred for Doug Flutie by some fans. All he did was win games, and create a lot of exciting plays. Sure, he may have tucked and ran too often (when guys were open), but he also didn't have the strongest of arms. What he lacked in physical stature, he made up for with heart. You'd think a town like Buffalo would appreciate that, but a lot didn't, for some reason.
I agree, and have said as much many times. It wasn't always pretty, and maybe Flutie wasn't a great lockerroom guy, BUT HE WON. He was as competitive as any player I have ever seen, and he found ways to win. Yes, you can credit the defense for some of Flutie's success, but Johnson lost over and over again with that same defense.

Flutie not only won, but created a lot of excitement and sold a bunch of critical premium seats at a very crucial time for the Bills' franchise.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 11:45 AM

He is the best in the league right now and could probably be considered one of the best ever as well. Problem is how much of it was really good coaching and how much has been aided by the video cameras? I guess without knowing it's a moot point.

I don't think Cassel has been using cameras to throw for 400 yards. I don't think BB has needed cameras to make Ellis-Green look better than Lynch either. I don't think he's needed cameras to make Aiken or Morris look better than they ever did as a bill.

Lets face it, he knows how to make other teams garbage into something decent while we've made our top talent look mediocre even when facing weak teams.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 12:30 PM

Morris is the same exact player he was in Buffalo and Miami. I don't understand where you keep coming up with this conclusion that he is some kind of god in New England.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 12:42 PM

Morris is the same exact player he was in Buffalo and Miami. I don't understand where you keep coming up with this conclusion that he is some kind of god in New England.

he's played his best football once he left buffalo.

Historian

11-26-2008, 12:49 PM

Okay...hey all sucked badly.

RockStar36

11-26-2008, 01:11 PM

he's played his best football once he left buffalo.

He's had more opportunities outside of Buffalo He definitely isn't a better player. He's the same guy.

justasportsfan

11-26-2008, 01:25 PM

He's had more opportunities outside of Buffalo He definitely isn't a better player. He's the same guy.
which falls into my point. Coaches seem to make the same players we had play better elsewhere. This is why I implied BB would get better production out of our players.

TheBrownBear

11-26-2008, 02:27 PM

Flutie was by far the best. The guy was such a winner. Just look at how the Bills did with him on the field in 2000 versus Robosack. Robosack = 4-7. Flutie = 4-1 (the lone loss being a very narrow defeat at the Metrodome). Giving Johnson the ball in Tennessee was the worst decision in Bills history and directly led to the past eight years of futility.

Mr. Pink

11-26-2008, 02:31 PM

I think the Bruce Mathison vs Vince Ferragamo argument is more exciting than the past decade of Bills QBs we've seen paraded in here.

I still contend that instead of trading the future for Drew Bledsoe we would have been better off signing Jeff Blake as a UFA. Have thought and said that before the deal was ever finalized.

In fact, Pat Moran and I had several discussions on that situation.

The best QB we had since Kelly in my opinion was Doug Flutie.

TacklingDummy

11-26-2008, 02:40 PM

Until I broke this down I didn't realize just how successful Flutie was in Buffalo.

If Flutie starts the Tenn. game, the Bills make the Super Bowl.

Ingtar33

11-26-2008, 02:45 PM

small note on the pats.. with the way the pat's defense has been playing this year, Brady would be 11-0 atm... that team would be unstoppable.

gr8slayer

11-26-2008, 03:53 PM

small note on the pats.. with the way the pat's defense has been playing this year, Brady would be 11-0 atm... that team would be unstoppable.
I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if they won the Super Bowl this year.