Whats wrong? How do we fix this?

[Jan Reimers]

(1.) Everything. (2.) A total housecleaning.

[X-Era]

Well, the answer is that it wont come cheap and we cant be conservative

QB- Trent may or may not be the answer we dont know. The mere fact that he is so up and down directly leads to wins and losses. If you want to be a playoff team, you cant afford that type of situation.

The right move: Draft a QB and sign a vet who can win games for us. A guy like Garcia would be nice. In the draft guys like Harrell, McCoy, maybe Stafford

The Bills likely move: Sign a vet like Charlie Fry or Kyle Boller who wont cost them much of anything but who they can try to argue that has upside still. Then probably not draft a QB at all.

RB- Just fine IMO.

WR- Has anyone seen James Hardy? Im just wondering if we didnt screw ourselves yet again with a 2nd round WR (Josh Reed). The really sick part is that Josh Reed actually looks good these days. Well, hes not getting younger and were not getting better at WR. The thought was that we needed an upgrade at #2 WR spot if we all remember. That mission has failed so far.

The right move: Sign someone like TJ Houshmazilly. He helps us day one, is a true playmaker, and will demand to be covered.

The Bills Likely move: Probably not do muc of anything at WR feeling that Hardy will get better and Reed is good enough.

TE- Royal has played better, Schouman has made some plays as has Fine. But none of them is the Antonio Gates type player, nor the Jason Witten type. These type of playmakers force the D to respect them and make everyone elses lives easier.

The right move: Draft a guy who can play day one, and probably start mid season. Pick your type whether it be the massive blocker who can catch or the speedy, receiver who can sometimes block. Gresham, Pettigrew, Coffman, Cook, all can play and any of them can help us.

The likely Bills move- Either to skip the position in the draft all together or to draft someone late or sign the next Courtney Anderson.

OL- The have played well and not so well. The current lineup is the best temporary solution with Preston at the C spot. Unfortunately, that still leaves us weak-ish at RG and Preston is set to be a FA.


The right move: Draft a C in the mid-rounds and probably a G. Guys like Caldwell, Shipley, or Wood would be good. At G finding guys like Herman Johnson would be nice

The Bills move: Draft a C in round 7 who will keep that spot mediocre will into the future.

DL- We dont have a single DE that is a true playmaker, not one. We also dont have much depth at DT. We simply cant win playoff games (if we ever get there) without a pass rush. Hell, we probably will never beat the Pats either.


The right move- make it a priority to get the sack artist playmaker at DE that we have needed for a decade. Signing Peppers would be ideal but the draft is more likely. GUys like Selvie, Hardy, Johnson, Brown all could be just what we need.

The Bills move- I think they actually address this in the offseason. It probably will be a draftee and may even be an early pick. But they probably screw it up with some "high motor" type who doesnt have the sacks to go with his motor.

LB- Crowell screwed us hard, thats for sure. Mitchell has been sketchy too often for being such a highly touted FA signee. If we dont get better at LB we will continue to be eaten alive in the 10-20 yard seems and over the middle. Poz is a great you talent, but he cant do it alone.


The right move- sign a guy like Terrell Suggs who makes a huge impact at OLB and on the pass rush. Or, draft someone like Curry who looks like he has the potential to be very good. I wouldnt even mind kicking Poz to OLB and drafting a guy like Lauranitis, Brandon Spikes.

The Bills move- They probably go and draft a young guy, and may even gert one that helps us right away.

CB- I think were getting better here even though it looks like were getting worse with Greer out. McKelvin is learning on the field. Weeve seen with Clements, and Winfield that it just takes time and ifthe talent is there, they will become plenty good enough.


The right move- Resign Greer, let McKelvin compete with him. I would also resign Youbouty who has shown he about ready to be trusted to make some plays, just not be one of the outside CB's.

The Bills likely move- Let Greer and Youbouty both walk feeling that Corner and McKelvin will be fine. Then draft a 7th round CB like this years Cox to develop.

S- Without Whitner, were hurting. Simpson can play but only sometimes. I still havent seen much from this group in terms of covering the part of the field they are responsible for.


The right move- draft guys who can hit like trucks and have the speed to cover lots of ground. Guys like Moore, Harris, Rolle, or Mays make a ton of sense.

The Bills move- probably nothing. They keep Scott and continue to bank on Simpson. They probably resign Wilson.

ST- LIndell has been reliable, but he screwed us this last game. I guess after 53 in a row or whatever, hes entitled to make a few mistakes.


The right move- probably stay the course. Add a few speedy guys who can tackle. Consider replacing Neil, adding a LB or two with speed like Casillas.

The Bills move- they probably get it right
Coaching- IM onthe fence on Jauron. I think he manages to get alot out of his talent for the most part. But he screws up too many game day decisions and he doesnt show the leadership to get his tream to turn it around during games. The OC and DC I wouldnt mind jettisoning. But considering the years it will take to get a new offennse installed and working, Id rather just force our OC to to make better calls.


The right move- Go get a guy like the chin who will force the team to win and get a winning spirit.

The Bills move- stick with Jauron

Front office- Its a joke IMO. and yes that includes Ralph.


The right move- get Golisano, which will only happen if Ralph passes. Get rid of Brandon. Bring in a young, proven GM.

The Bills move- stay the course, which happens to be heading us to end up completely lost.

[gr8slayer]

New owner...

[Jan Reimers]

New owner...
Really good start.

[X-Era]

Really good start.

Huge new start. There would be no move that could make a bigger impact than that.

I can blame players for games

I can blame coaches for a year

I can blame a GM for a few years

But I can only blame an owner for decades

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

[quote=EdwardsEra]Well, the answer is that it wont come cheap and we cant be conservative

QB- Trent may or may not be the answer we dont know. The mere fact that he is so up and down directly leads to wins and losses. If you want to be a playoff team, you cant afford that type of situation.
The right move: Draft a QB and sign a vet who can win games for us. A guy like Garcia would be nice. In the draft guys like Harrell, McCoy, maybe Stafford

The Bills likely move: Sign a vet like Charlie Fry or Kyle Boller who wont cost them much of anything but who they can try to argue that has upside still. Then probably not draft a QB at all.

RB- Just fine IMO.

WR- Has anyone seen James Hardy? Im just wondering if we didnt screw ourselves yet again with a 2nd round WR (Josh Reed). The really sick part is that Josh Reed actually looks good these days. Well, hes not getting younger and were not getting better at WR. The thought was that we needed an upgrade at #2 WR spot if we all remember. That mission has failed so far.
The right move: Sign someone like TJ Houshmazilly. He helps us day one, is a true playmaker, and will demand to be covered.

The Bills Likely move: Probably not do muc of anything at WR feeling that Hardy will get better and Reed is good enough.

TE- Royal has played better, Schouman has made some plays as has Fine. But none of them is the Antonio Gates type player, nor the Jason Witten type. These type of playmakers force the D to respect them and make everyone elses lives easier.<blockquote>The right move: Draft a guy who can play day one, and probably start mid season. Pick your type whether it be the massive blocker who can catch or the speedy, receiver who can sometimes block. Gresham, Pettigrew, Coffman, Cook, all can play and any of them can help us.


incredible post. good work. best one I've seen in a while

[yordad]

Good thread Jan, lol, and nice reply edwardsera.

1. Sign Peppers

2. Re-sign Jackson and hopefully Greer.

3. Get me a FS, I'll take Mike Brown

4. Draft me a LB round 1

5. Draft me a TE round 2

6. Draft me a center Round 3

7. Draft me a FB round 4.

8. Oh, and get a real coach.

That's it. I think adding 1 or 2 FA and re-signing a FA or 2 are fairly modest wants. One friggin' guy, one frigging good DE, could make all the difference.

[X-Era]

Good thread Jan, lol, and nice reply edwardsera.

1. Sign Peppers

2. Re-sign Jackson and hopefully Greer.

3. Get me a FS, I'll take Mike Brown

4. Draft me a LB round 1

5. Draft me a TE round 2

6. Draft me a center Round 3

7. Draft me a FB round 4.

8. Oh, and get a real coach.



That's it. I think adding 1 or 2 FA and re-signing a FA or 2 are fairly modest wants. One friggin' guy, one frigging good DE, could make all the difference.

I actually tried to post my long text but it got screwed up and never posted the text.

Anyways, Peppers would be ideal. Hes going toget the tag. Terrell Suggs supposedly isnt. He would fix both the pass rush and fill a OLB spot. Theres draft prospects that might do it but we will have to see.

LB- agree, TE- agree, C- agree, FB? OK maybe. I still would go after a G, a backup ILB, and another CB.

I think the key is to make significant upgrades to the team. Late round draftees are not significant upgrades, thats more of the same. Nor is signing second tier guys.

[SpillerThrills]

I'd like to see us go get a guy like James Laurinaitis from Ohio State at LB

[X-Era]

I'd like to see us go get a guy like James Laurinaitis from Ohio State at LB

Hes a stud no doubt about it.

I like it but only if we think Poz can play outside or if we switch to the 3-4.

Switching to the 3-4 would make way much more sense. Our O would get a ton of reps against it and learn how to beat it, we could play to the strength of the draft which is at ILB rather than OLB. And we could go after someone like Orakpo

[yordad]

Yes a FB. It is the 11th position, and ours sees a good amount of time on the field.
I think we have to do something with the 11th position. Either play w 2 TEs, 3 WRs, or 2 half backs every time... or get a FB that is good and versatile.

I mean, who do you want on the field... Schouman, Fred Jackson, Hardy, Johnson, Parrish.... or McIntyre? I would rather see Kirk Chambers as the 11th guy rather then a crappy FB.

We are practicality fielding 10 guys. Mc probably gets in the way more then he paves one.

I would like to see one that is not only an adequate blocker (run and pass), but one who is an adequate dump-pass-catcher and 2-yard-pounder.

I mean, what the heck is Omon doing? If he converted, he wouldn't be the smallest FB in the league. The NFL has to have added some weight to him too.

Anyways, FB has been as neglected as TE. Either stop playing one, or get one.

[X-Era]

Yes a FB. It is the 11th position, and ours sees a good amount of time on the field.
I think we have to do something with the 11th position. Either play w 2 TEs, 3 WRs, or 2 half backs every time... or get a FB that is good and versatile.

I mean, who do you want on the field... Schouman, Fred Jackson, Hardy/Johnson/Parrish.... or McIntyre? I would rather see Kirk Chambers as the 11th guy rather then a crappy FB.

We are practicality fielding 10 guys. Mc probably get in the way more then he paves one.

I would like to see one that is not only an adequate blocker (run and pass), but one who is an adequate dump-pass-catcher and 2-yard-pounder.

I mean, what the heck is Omon doing? If he converted, he wouldn't be the smallest FB in the league. The NFL has to have added some weight.

Anyways, FB has been as neglected as TE. Either stop playing one, or get one.

Im a huge fan of the 1 back set. It leaves the D guessing as to what were going to do and gives you extra receiving options. We run the zone blocking technique quite a bit so I think we could do it. It also gives the RB more room to run, Lynch does best when he has a bit of run to make moves. Plus it takes the FB off the field.

[SpillerThrills]

I don't know why we don't just use a TE or LB as a fullback like a few other teams do... they aren't usually going to get the ball, their mostly there to clear someone out of the hole...

[Mad Bomber]

(1.) Everything. (2.) A total housecleaning.
Jan,
This may sound REALLY callous, but we need Ralph to die and get new ownership.

New ownership, who completely changes our front office, is the only "housecleaning" that we'll ever get.

I feel bad about the Ralph dying thing, but lets face it....this guy is 2 years younger than my dad. My dad could do a better job with this team than Ralph has....

...trust me....he tells me that all the time.

[The Jokeman]

I actually tried to post my long text but it got screwed up and never posted the text.

Anyways, Peppers would be ideal. Hes going toget the tag. Terrell Suggs supposedly isnt. He would fix both the pass rush and fill a OLB spot. Theres draft prospects that might do it but we will have to see.

LB- agree, TE- agree, C- agree, FB? OK maybe. I still would go after a G, a backup ILB, and another CB.

I think the key is to make significant upgrades to the team. Late round draftees are not significant upgrades, thats more of the same. Nor is signing second tier guys.
Suggs= Jeff Posey with more money. He plays rush OLB in a 3-4 and likely be a bad fit here. If you're going to go that route let's go the cheap and sign Bertrard Berry and let us get more money for a guy like Whoursyourmama at play WR. In all honesty if look closely at thedraft very few players really make big impacts so I wouldn't be opposed trading our 1st for a guy like Tony Gonzalez and get a 5th rounder back from KC.

[X-Era]

Suggs= Jeff Posey with more money. He plays rush OLB in a 3-4 and likely be a bad fit here. If you're going to go that route let's go the cheap and sign Bertrard Berry and let us get more money for a guy like Whoursyourmama at play WR. In all honesty if look closely at thedraft very few players really make big impacts so I wouldn't be opposed trading our 1st for a guy like Tony Gonzalez and get a 5th rounder back from KC.

Suggs = Jeff Posey? Have you lost your mind... wait, your a Bills fan and we all have at this point... OK I digress. No, Suggs is a feared pass rusher, solid tackler, and has the speed to cover the short seem. No, Just because Suggs plays in the 3-4 doesnt mean he cant play here. He can... just fine, no way better than that.

Besides, with any luck we will be running the 3-4 next year anyways.

[The Jokeman]

Suggs = Jeff Posey? Have you lost your mind... wait, your a Bills fan and we all have at this point... OK I digress. No, Suggs is a feared pass rusher, solid tackler, and has the speed to cover the short seem. No, Just because Suggs plays in the 3-4 doesnt mean he cant play here. He can... just fine, no way better than that.

Besides, with any luck we will be running the 3-4 next year anyways.
What your failing to comprehend is that the responsibilities for a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB are far different. 3-4 OLBs are asked to rush the passer where in the 4-3 they asked more to cover TEs/RBs. Look at Joey Porter throughout his career in a 3-4 compared to his one season as a 4-3 OLB last year. In terms of the 3-4 next year I think your nuts as outside of Ryan Denney our DEs would be eaten alive in a 3-4. While Kyle Williams might be able to play DE in a 3-4 that leaves 2 or 3 DE short and an overpriced guy like Chris Kelsay on the bench and/or cut and counting against the cap.

[tat2dmike77]

My dad could do a better job with this team than Ralph has....

...trust me....he tells me that all the time.

My dip**** brother could do a better job with this team and he doesn't know jack about football.

[X-Era]

What your failing to comprehend is that the responsibilities for a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB are far different. 3-4 OLBs are asked to rush the passer where in the 4-3 they asked more to cover TEs/RBs. Look at Joey Porter throughout his career in a 3-4 compared to his one season as a 4-3 OLB last year. In terms of the 3-4 next year I think your nuts as outside of Ryan Denney our DEs would be eaten alive in a 3-4. While Kyle Williams might be able to play DE in a 3-4 that leaves 2 or 3 DE short and an overpriced guy like Chris Kelsay on the bench and/or cut and counting against the cap.

Simply put, no way.

The 3-4 asks its OLB's to be a bit more like tweeners between DE/OLB but this draft is full of that type. Guys like Orakpo, Selvie just to name a few. At DE, it simply often has undersized DE's trying to play it. Schobel is on the smallish side. Denney can take a hike. Kelsay can play the other DE spot if need be, but I would look at upgrading him anyways.

[TedMock]

I think coaching is the biggest problem. I don't think the team lacks a ton of talent the way some do. I think this is a young team with adequate talent that could get better. We definitely have some holes, but the mistakes/issues I see are that of coaching. I was willing to give Jauron 2-3 years. This is year three and I believe it's a talented roster that is underachieving because of coaching, so see ya. Some will look at the stat sheet and wonder why I see talent. I see talent in the limited opportunities to showcase it. I blame the stat sheet on poor coaching. I especially blame the mental lapses on poor coaching. We were fine until teams figured us out. Teams with more talent and/or better coaching. Sometimes one, sometimes both. The constant penalties are a direct reflection of coaching. The lack of intensity are a direct reflection of coaching. I still think Trent could be solid, but I’m not completely sold. Just a feeling. I forgot how bad JP was. Wow. I would love a veteran backup to be there in Trent’s ear with a non-coaching perspective of what’s going on. I would also like a DE, TE and FB to be on the top of the priority list. As for coaches: I’m now afraid of re-treads and rookies. Thank you, Ralph. If I had my choice, Cowher would obviously be on the top of the list. As for rookies, nobody has mentioned Russ Grimm. I would put him on the list of rookies to look at too.

[Mr. Pink]

Suggs would be miscast here in Buffalo, much like Posey was.

I'm guessing that is what he's getting at.

Suggs would be another expensive failure by this organization cause he wouldn't fit.

Unless we're going out and bringing in Rex Ryan as coach, then Suggs is an awesome pickup.

This team needs a. new GM, b. new Coach, c. new Center, d. new QB, e. DE, f. Safety

Those are the top 6 needs as I see it, obviously if we bring in a new coach who changes the scheme around, we're gonna need a lot more than that.

[X-Era]

I think coaching is the biggest problem. I don't think the team lacks a ton of talent the way some do. I think this is a young team with adequate talent that could get better. We definitely have some holes, but the mistakes/issues I see are that of coaching. I was willing to give Jauron 2-3 years. This is year three and I believe it's a talented roster that is underachieving because of coaching, so see ya. Some will look at the stat sheet and wonder why I see talent. I see talent in the limited opportunities to showcase it. I blame the stat sheet on poor coaching. I especially blame the mental lapses on poor coaching. We were fine until teams figured us out. Teams with more talent and/or better coaching. Sometimes one, sometimes both. The constant penalties are a direct reflection of coaching. The lack of intensity are a direct reflection of coaching. I still think Trent could be solid, but I’m not completely sold. Just a feeling. I forgot how bad JP was. Wow. I would love a veteran backup to be there in Trent’s ear with a non-coaching perspective of what’s going on. I would also like a DE, TE and FB to be on the top of the priority list. As for coaches: I’m now afraid of re-treads and rookies. Thank you, Ralph. If I had my choice, Cowher would obviously be on the top of the list. As for rookies, nobody has mentioned Russ Grimm. I would put him on the list of rookies to look at too.

This team has been mediocre for more than a decade, how can we afford to do anything that isn't a vast and significant improvement over what we have done in the past decade.

For that reason, I dont want another rookie HC. We tried that will Mularkey and Williams, they failed miserably. It took a hall of fame coach to go to the Superbowl at all and we lost, why is it so much easier now? On this team?

[X-Era]

Suggs would be miscast here in Buffalo, much like Posey was.

I'm guessing that is what he's getting at.

Suggs would be another expensive failure by this organization cause he wouldn't fit.

Unless we're going out and bringing in Rex Ryan as coach, then Suggs is an awesome pickup.

This team needs a. new GM, b. new Coach, c. new Center, d. new QB, e. DE, f. Safety

Those are the top 6 needs as I see it, obviously if we bring in a new coach who changes the scheme around, we're gonna need a lot more than that.

I must havce missed something, some how Ellison is good enough at OLB?

And who exactly will be the significant upgrade at DE then?

This concept of Suggs not fitting the OLB mold is ridiculous, he plays that position now. Isthere some significant difference in his duties as a OLB in the 3-4 when hes NOT rushing the passer? If he can do it now, he cant do it for us?

[Mr. Pink]

I must havce missed something, some how Ellison is good enough at OLB?

And who exactly will be the significant upgrade at DE then?

This concept of Suggs not fitting the OLB mold is ridiculous, he plays that position now. Isthere some significant difference in his duties as a OLB in the 3-4 when hes NOT rushing the passer? If he can do it now, he cant do it for us?


The responsibilities of a LB in a 3-4 is much different than what we play now.

Look at what Posey did prior to coming here and then look what he did here for an example. Posey was more of a one year wonder than a consistent career contributor but it's the same principle.

Suggs would fit more as a DE here than a LB. Much like in the 3-4 Schobel would be more suited as an OLB than DE. It's not an easy transition to make however.

No Ellison definitely isn't good enough and an upgrade is definitely needed.

But in our system, Suggs wouldn't be an upgrade because he'd be more suited as a DE.

[X-Era]

The responsibilities of a LB in a 3-4 is much different than what we play now.

Look at what Posey did prior to coming here and then look what he did here for an example. Posey was more of a one year wonder than a consistent career contributor but it's the same principle.

Suggs would fit more as a DE here than a LB. Much like in the 3-4 Schobel would be more suited as an OLB than DE. It's not an easy transition to make however.

No Ellison definitely isn't good enough and an upgrade is definitely needed.

But in our system, Suggs wouldn't be an upgrade because he'd be more suited as a DE.

Why are we talking about Posey. Posey was average on a good day. Suggs is a pro-bowler.

Forget Posey.

You did not go into any depth as to what the difference is on a non-pass rushing down between a 3-4 OLB and a Tampa 2 OLB.

During a pass rush down, you basically have another pass rushing DE on the field... thats a good thing.

[Mr. Pink]

Why are we talking about Posey. Posey was average on a good day. Suggs is a pro-bowler.

Forget Posey.

You did not go into any depth as to what the difference is on a non-pass rushing down between a 3-4 OLB and a Tampa 2 OLB.

During a pass rush down, you basically have another pass rushing DE on the field... thats a good thing.

Alright...

The responsibilities Suggs has in Baltimore is mainly pass rushing and making plays without having to fight off blockers. The front line guys take on the blockers which is supposed to free him up to make plays. And Baltimore has a good to great D-Line which is why Ray Ray has flourished for years.

As a 3-4 LB, you're asked more to do what a 4-3 DE does. Get after the passer. You don't drop off into coverage as much as a 4-3 LB does. Sure, there are times when you're in coverage, but mostly you're coming as the 4th guy, much like in the 4-3 how often does one of the DE's drop into coverage?

So, you'd bring Suggs here and expect him to understand and pick up on different assignments quickly. Like coverage, different gap responsibilities, less getting after the QB. You expect him to pick up on this quickly? He's a guy who's been in the league for years playing in the same system. Now, do you think he's gonna wanna go somewhere and basically learn an entirely new system?

He'd be a colossal blunder here, under the current system, IMO

[bflojohn]

I want the Bills coaches, whoever that is in 2009, to turn the athletes loose! Jump a route every once in a while and go deep with SOME regularity, otherwise send Lee Evans and Roscoe Parrish down the road, their games are predicated on SPEED- use it!! Do a few naked bootlegs and tight end screens, let Marshawn throw it at the two yard line, from what I remember, that play WORKED! Quit playing to lose for God's sake, and take the calculated risk or two. Block a field goal, I remember Marv Levy doing this against the Broncos in 1990, and it launched a team into the limelight! Run Moorman on 4ht and 2, if it is apparent on tape that the opponent won't pick up on it!! I am sick and tired of the same old, same old game plan that irrates even the most staunch supporter of this team (I'm one!). The front office MUST get PLAYMAKERS at #2 WR, Tight End, Defensive End and OLB. Center does need an upgrade, so get one! Miami and Atlanta are the latest poster children for the "quick fix" approach, obviously it can work!! The core of this team makes it a solid"sell" to a prospective new Head Coach, so change can be the best thing to do!!!

[yordad]

IMO, Suggs would be a huge upgrade. I mean, come on, we start Ellison who is bad at everything. But, proportionately speaking, if we paid what others would, the same others that would get better production out of him due to scheme, then we aren't getting value.

Where as other teams in a 3-4 could rationalize giving him an X size contract because he would add X size production, the Bills would have to give him an X+2 size contract and probably only get X/2 production.

Now X/2 production is better then the A-100 production we get from Ellison, but we wouldn't get good value paying X+2 to get it. No where near the value another team would.

IMO we should just pay Peppers Z. We could get Z^2 production there. One freakin freak lineman could not only make our line better, but the entire defense.

[X-Era]

Alright...

The responsibilities Suggs has in Baltimore is mainly pass rushing and making plays without having to fight off blockers. The front line guys take on the blockers which is supposed to free him up to make plays. And Baltimore has a good to great D-Line which is why Ray Ray has flourished for years.

As a 3-4 LB, you're asked more to do what a 4-3 DE does. Get after the passer. You don't drop off into coverage as much as a 4-3 LB does. Sure, there are times when you're in coverage, but mostly you're coming as the 4th guy, much like in the 4-3 how often does one of the DE's drop into coverage?

So, you'd bring Suggs here and expect him to understand and pick up on different assignments quickly. Like coverage, different gap responsibilities, less getting after the QB. You expect him to pick up on this quickly? He's a guy who's been in the league for years playing in the same system. Now, do you think he's gonna wanna go somewhere and basically learn an entirely new system?

He'd be a colossal blunder here, under the current system, IMO

I can only see a slight difference in the amount of field that a 3-4 OLB is responsible to cover. The have a bit less due to another ILB being there. Even that is arguable considering DE's due in fact drop back into coverage on passing downs at times in the 4-3 (tampa). You either have the ability to cover or you dont. So far, Suggs has passed that test.

Even in the Tampa 2, we blitz our LB's often. Sometimes all of them. Suggs is an instant upgrade at that phase to ANY of our current LB's.

If we were asking a OLB to try to cover a WR 20 yards down field, chances are we are screwed regardless of who the LB is, the scheme doesnt matter there. On the flip side, any LB 3-4 or 4-3 should be able to cover most of the TE's in this league, and even slot WR's running shorter routes (theres just not that much ground that they need to cover).

Lastly, no one is asking him to learn a new system quickly. He has an entire offseason. Thats IF we keep the Tampa 2... and I see NO reason that we should do that anymore.

[Mr. Pink]

IMO, Suggs would be a huge upgrade. I mean, come on, we start Ellison who is bad at everything. But, proportionately speaking, if we paid what others would, the same others that would get better production out of him due to scheme, then we aren't getting value.

Where as other teams in a 3-4 could rationalize giving him an X size contract because he would add X size production, the Bills would have to give him an X+2 size contract and probably only get X/2 production.

Now X/2 production is better then the A-100 production we get from Ellison, but we wouldn't get good value paying X+2 to get it. No where near the value another team would.

IMO we should just pay Peppers Z. We could get Z^2 production there.

Right.

We'd have to overpay a guy who we wouldn't get his full abilities and production level out of, if we went after Suggs.

And that's if he'd even be willing to come here to begin with.

A 3-4 team can rationalize giving him megabucks, because you know from the get go the guy will perform at the same level in it as he has. It might be a little dropoff because let's be honest here...if say Suggs went to Cleveland...Cleveland's D-line outside of Rogers isn't in the same class as Baltimore's line. So Suggs wouldn't have the complete freedom to roam around as he does now. But, even still, his production would be much higher in Cleveland than it would be here even though both would be dropoffs.

The dropoff would just be greater here.

[X-Era]

Right.

We'd have to overpay a guy who we wouldn't get his full abilities and production level out of, if we went after Suggs.

And that's if he'd even be willing to come here to begin with.

A 3-4 team can rationalize giving him megabucks, because you know from the get go the guy will perform at the same level in it as he has. It might be a little dropoff because let's be honest here...if say Suggs went to Cleveland...Cleveland's D-line outside of Rogers isn't in the same class as Baltimore's line. So Suggs wouldn't have the complete freedom to roam around as he does now. But, even still, his production would be much higher in Cleveland than it would be here even though both would be dropoffs.

The dropoff would just be greater here.

OK, Im still waiting for a solution to our pass rush crisis from you. I also didnt hear a solution to the OLB spot either.

Im offering a huge fix to both (if it works), but your right it isn't a perfect fit. Well, how often will that come along. How often has it come along so far.

[The Jokeman]

OK, Im still waiting for a solution to our pass rush crisis from you. I also didnt hear a solution to the OLB spot either.

Im offering a huge fix to both (if it works), but your right it isn't a perfect fit. Well, how often will that come along. How often has it come along so far.
I brought up Bertrard Berry before because at least he does have some experience in a 4-3 as a DE/OLB and a bit more size then Suggs. Not to mention be a whole lot cheaper, can't say he's better then Suggs but maybe a little more reasonable but in all honesty that probably a pipe dream too. Though in reality neither really fit in what we need. What we need is Julius Peppers and Angelo Crowell but can't see that happening either.

[Mr. Pink]

OK, Im still waiting for a solution to our pass rush crisis from you. I also didnt hear a solution to the OLB spot either.

Im offering a huge fix to both (if it works), but your right it isn't a perfect fit. Well, how often will that come along. How often has it come along so far.


Sign James Farrior to play the ILB position, move Poz outside where he might be do better because let's face it, he's not good enough to play the interior. Vilma also would be a nice signing for the middle. Bring in a vet who has experience in the NFL and knows defensive calls and audibles, etc.

At DE? Bertrand Berry.

I'd also like to see us make a push to sign Jonathan Babineaux to play DT next to Stroud.

[The Jokeman]

Sign James Farrior to play the ILB position, move Poz outside where he might be do better because let's face it, he's not good enough to play the interior. Vilma also would be a nice signing for the middle. Bring in a vet who has experience in the NFL and knows defensive calls and audibles, etc.

At DE? Bertrand Berry.

I'd also like to see us make a push to sign Jonathan Babineaux to play DT next to Stroud.
Babineaux got a 5 year extension earlier this week see link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-falcons-contracts&prov=ap&type=lgns). He was on my short list of DTs to sign but now that's evaporated.

[Mr. Pink]

Babineaux got a 5 year extension earlier this week see link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-falcons-contracts&prov=ap&type=lgns). He was on my short list of DTs to sign but now that's evaporated.

Dayum.

I didn't hear that.

Scratch him then.

[X-Era]

Sign James Farrior to play the ILB position, move Poz outside where he might be do better because let's face it, he's not good enough to play the interior. Vilma also would be a nice signing for the middle. Bring in a vet who has experience in the NFL and knows defensive calls and audibles, etc.

At DE? Bertrand Berry.

I'd also like to see us make a push to sign Jonathan Babineaux to play DT next to Stroud.

None of those guys, not one is a significant upgrade.

Not one of them is even top 10 at there position, probably not even top 15.

Sorry, that's more of the same and that's no good.

Farrior is WAY past his prime and never was that great in his prime.

Berry is more of a light DT, not a true pass rush DE. 5 sacks? friggin Denney almost has that much. And hes 33.

Babineaux is 27 so thats decent. But this is his 1st year being a full time starter and at 3.5 sacks and 27 tackles hes not exactly showing hes a stud. Hes no better than Williams... again not a true upgrade.

Vilma was released and sat out there for a while... that doesnt exactly sound like a true upgrade either.

Seriously, how can you criticize the team and then offer to do more of the same as a solution.

I offered up Suggs, you argue he may not be the best fit and then give me a list of mediocre players that we should skip him for.

[Mr. Pink]

None of those guys, not one is a significant upgrade.

Not one of them is even top 10 at there position, probably not even top 15.

Sorry, that's more of the same and that's no good.

Farrior is WAY past his prime and never was that great in his prime.

Berry is more of a light DT, not a true pass rush DE. 5 sacks? friggin Denney almost has that much. And hes 33.

Babineaux is 27 so thats decent. But this is his 1st year being a full time starter and at 3.5 sacks and 27 tackles hes not exactly showing hes a stud. Hes no better than Williams... again not a true upgrade.

Vilma was released and sat out there for a while... that doesnt exactly sound like a true upgrade either.

Seriously, how can you criticize the team and then offer to do more of the same as a solution.

I offered up Suggs, you argue he may not be the best fit and then give me a list of mediocre players that we should skip him for.

Farrior has 88 tackles with 3 sacks and a FF this season. How that's not an upgrade at ILB and then moving Poz outside isn't an inprovement overall baffles me.

Problem is, Farrior may or may not be resigned. I'm not sure, because I've seen him listed as a free agent and then resigned for 5 years. Seeing he's not everywhere as signed, I'm gonna go with as of right now, he'll be an FA at the end of the year. Doesn't mean he is though.

And Berry as a lighter DT? :rofl: He had 59 career sacks and 16 forced fumbles. His only problem is his durability as of late. But 10 games a year of Berry is better than 16 of Kelsay/Denney. You can compare Berry to Kelsay/Denney when Kelsay or Denney gets over 10 sacks in a season.

And Vilma didn't sit out for a while, he was injured. And is playing well in N.O. this year.

[X-Era]

Farrior has 88 tackles with 3 sacks and a FF this season. How that's not an upgrade at ILB and then moving Poz outside isn't an inprovement overall baffles me.

Problem is, Farrior may or may not be resigned. I'm not sure, because I've seen him listed as a free agent and then resigned for 5 years. Seeing he's not everywhere as signed, I'm gonna go with as of right now, he'll be an FA at the end of the year. Doesn't mean he is though.

And Berry as a lighter DT? :rofl: He had 59 career sacks and 16 forced fumbles. His only problem is his durability as of late. But 10 games a year of Berry is better than 16 of Kelsay/Denney. You can compare Berry to Kelsay/Denney when Kelsay or Denney gets over 10 sacks in a season.

And Vilma didn't sit out for a while, he was injured. And is playing well in N.O. this year.

Berry has that many sacks over how many years? he hasnt had a double digit sack season in the past 4 years.. his numbers show what his birthdate does, he ought to call it quits.

A significant upgrade is double digit sacks.

Why do we move a 80 tacklle machine in Poz to the outside to bring in a 33 year old LB with his best days behind him?

A significant upgrade is needed at OLB, but not at the expense of a now proven ILB. Thats not a upgrade overall.

Vilma was so good that the Jets traded him because a rookie was better (Harris)? on a 4-12 team? I like his youth and his potential.

Buit, again, thats not a PROVEN significant upgrade and again moves Poz outside.

Come on man, serious, significant upgrades or bust.

"if you do what youve always done, you get what youve always got"

[The Jokeman]

None of those guys, not one is a significant upgrade.

Not one of them is even top 10 at there position, probably not even top 15.

Sorry, that's more of the same and that's no good.

Farrior is WAY past his prime and never was that great in his prime.

Berry is more of a light DT, not a true pass rush DE. 5 sacks? friggin Denney almost has that much. And hes 33.

Babineaux is 27 so thats decent. But this is his 1st year being a full time starter and at 3.5 sacks and 27 tackles hes not exactly showing hes a stud. Hes no better than Williams... again not a true upgrade.

Vilma was released and sat out there for a while... that doesnt exactly sound like a true upgrade either.

Seriously, how can you criticize the team and then offer to do more of the same as a solution.

I offered up Suggs, you argue he may not be the best fit and then give me a list of mediocre players that we should skip him for.

You laughed at Berry's 5 sacks this year but I just checked and Suggs has 5.5 this season. I'm not saying that Berry's equal to Suggs because he's not but of note Berry has 7.5 sacks in 19 games played the last two seasons compared to Suggs' 10.5 in 28 games played. I think Berry might be a good nickel pass rusher to say the least possibly playing a Jim Jeffcoat role. As again he'll likely be a helluva cheaper then signing Suggs and might allow us to bring in another player or two and/or keep a guy like Greer and/or Angelo Crowell.

[X-Era]

You laughed at Berry's 5 sacks this year but I just checked and Suggs has 5.5 this season. I'm not saying that Berry's equal to Suggs because he's not but of note Berry has 7.5 sacks in 19 games played the last two seasons compared to Suggs' 10.5 in 28 games played. I think Berry might be a good nickel pass rusher to say the least possibly playing a Jim Jeffcoat role. As again he'll likely be a helluva cheaper then signing Suggs and might allow us to bring in another player or two and/or keep a guy like Greer and/or Angelo Crowell.

So were bringing a "significant" upgrade in for what one year before he retires?

[Night Train]

I think that's it, Jan. A new owner.

I wish Jim Kelly or someone could get through that cement melon Ralph has resting on his shoulders and convince him to sell to a local group.

Right now, I'm actually frightened at who the next coach may be. We already have a non-football marketing grad filling in as GM, which is like having a UPS courier performing your double bypass.

He may pick Billy Facillo as coach, seeing sales as more important than wins.

The black comedy continues.

Go ahead and send me that ticket invoice for 2009. It will find it's way to my cats crapbox.

[TedMock]

This team has been mediocre for more than a decade, how can we afford to do anything that isn't a vast and significant improvement over what we have done in the past decade.

For that reason, I dont want another rookie HC. We tried that will Mularkey and Williams, they failed miserably. It took a hall of fame coach to go to the Superbowl at all and we lost, why is it so much easier now? On this team?

I don't think anything is easy. I just think that there is talent to build on right now because it's still young enough. I agree on Williams and Mularky, but rookies elsewhere have worked. I still think that Williams was a decent choice at the time. He just failed. His defenses had been great and he went on to coach great defenses. John Fox and Marvin Lewis were the other hot DC's hired at the time. Mularky was another story. He was a gadget guy who was lucky enough to have the best O-line in football and bruising running game to lean on. We also failed with Wade (sort of - talented team, but he had no backbone. See Dallas.) and Jauron as the re-tread hires. Where do we go? Is there a Sean Payton or Wisenhutt rookie out there? Is there a Bellichick or Dungy retread out there? We're taking a chance either way. I would love to see a relatively young, proven coach like Bill Cowher, but I don't really believe that Ralph is willing to pull that trigger. Besides, he played and coached in Cleveland at one point, and I think he has to be the top pick there if Romeo gets fired.

[Lone Stranger]

When will you guys learn!!!! We have to draft linemen forever. Good lines on both sides of the ball will cure a lot of ills.

[Night Train]

When will you guys learn!!!! We have to draft linemen forever. Good lines on both sides of the ball will cure a lot of ills.

Many like myself have been saying that all along but if you have poor coaching/schemes, the talent will never be allowed to reach it's full potential.