If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

[chernobylwraiths]

Why doesn't he raise ticket prices to the league average?

[Typ0]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

because the price sensitivity in the marketplace dictates that price increase will result in less profits due to lost sales...ie ticket sales will tank.

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

But then he could move the team for "lack of support". It's a win/win situation for him. Raise prices and it sells out, more money in his pocket, raise money and not sell out = move the team and make a ton of money.

The Ralph wants more money argument is weak and stupid. There are SO many more ways he could make more money, even right here in Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

however, i think if he moved it to a non football market like LA or Toronto (as it seems now), he'd have to pay up for a better team. he'd have expensive seats, but if the team failed as much as it did, i doubt you'd get half the stadium filled. Like how it works in the rest of the NFL. if the team does poorly, no one comes. buffalo is the only market where we come no matter what.

i do think that ralph is a Bills fan and not just a money fan. He has the trouble of balancing the profits and losses as well as with W's and L's. However, i think he'd be better off with an expensive coach and GM, and let their system of excellence get the most out of young players and let players leave. it's better than overpaying for 4-5 players who can't make a difference when they are playing on a poorly coached team.

[chernobylwraiths]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

however, i think if he moved it to a non football market like LA or Toronto (as it seems now), he'd have to pay up for a better team. he'd have expensive seats, but if the team failed as much as it did, i doubt you'd get half the stadium filled. Like how it works in the rest of the NFL. if the team does poorly, no one comes. buffalo is the only market where we come no matter what.

i do think that ralph is a Bills fan and not just a money fan. He has the trouble of balancing the profits and losses as well as with W's and L's. However, i think he'd be better off with an expensive coach and GM, and let their system of excellence get the most out of young players and let players leave. it's better than overpaying for 4-5 players who can't make a difference when they are playing on a poorly coached team.

While I agree with your first point, going to a big market like Toronto would be a huge windfall. Remember, the money made by a franchise has nothing to do with the actual seating capacity and how many of those seats are sold, but on corporate sponsorship and how many suites you can sell for how much apiece. That is why Dallas is building their mega stadium with all the luxury suites. Plus, they keep all the suite money and share all the other seat money. Logically, if they sell out all the suites and don't sell a single seat, they could make millions.

[OpIv37]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

If Ralph doesn't care about money, why did he sell out our home games against division rivals to another city that doesn't even care about our team? Why does he consistently go cheap with coaches and FO personnel? Why does he let good players walk rather than re-sign them (Winfield, Pat Williams, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, etc)?

And when Ralph does spend money, he spends it poorly: Schobel, Kelsay, Fowler, Royal, the whole litany of FA's that aren't even here anymore (especially on the OL), even Dockery is struggling this season.

This franchise is a failure. It has been a mess from top to bottom for it's entire existence, with the exception of 1964 and a chunk of the 1990's. Yet, people still feel the need to defend Ralph because "at least we have a team." That's what I'm talking about when I say Bills fans should accept mediocrity. We shouldn't be satisfied with just having a team. We should demand more from this organization, starting from the top down. There's no point in having a team if we're just going to get our asses handed to us by New England, Pittsburgh, Indy, Denver, Dallas, the NJ teams, etc every damn season. They're not going to get it right every year because no one does, but they should be able to get it right every once in a while, and this constant defense of Wilson is letting them off the hook even for that.

[Typ0]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

But then he could move the team for "lack of support". It's a win/win situation for him. Raise prices and it sells out, more money in his pocket, raise money and not sell out = move the team and make a ton of money.

The Ralph wants more money argument is weak and stupid. There are SO many more ways he could make more money, even right here in Buffalo.

it's kind of an odd situation because he's near death. There are a lot of costs associated with moving the team and, in the long run, those costs would justify moving it. However, those costs would also never be recouped before his death so it would be a negative to his estate to move the team--especially since costs can help to decrease the tax burden on the estate.

Now, in theory, the value of the company is the net present value of all the future cash flows...and those cash flows are greater in another market any way you look at so the value of the team and it's sale price immediately increases. However, this will still hold true on the open market after his death so the sale price will be inflated by the value of the team in the market they want to place it in and the costs associated moving it will be included in this sale price. These things can all be costed off as immediate costs, like other things, that would decrease the tax burder on the estate. So, looking at it another way, in a perfect market the team might move right now. However, the IRS has created tax rules that make it advantageous to wait until the death of RW to transfer ownership of the team and that is where the risk of relocation will come into play.

I also do believe RW is an old traditionalist fart and would not move the team from Buffalo based on principal.

[Jeff1220]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

I don't necessarily believe Wilson's got this grand scheme of purposely taking the fans for everything they're worth by putting up a team that is constantly doing just enough to make us think that they could turn the corner "next year."

I do think that his management methods with this pro football team became passe about 25 years ago. He just doesn't realize that the way to build a successful team is different in 2008 than it was in 1960 or even 1986.

[Typ0]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

I don't necessarily believe Wilson's got this grand scheme of purposely taking the fans for everything they're worth by putting up a team that is constantly doing just enough to make us think that they could turn the corner "next year."

I do think that his management methods with this pro football team became passe about 25 years ago. He just doesn't realize that the way to build a successful team is different in 2008 than it was in 1960 or even 1986.

couldn't agree more.

[OpIv37]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

I don't necessarily believe Wilson's got this grand scheme of purposely taking the fans for everything they're worth by putting up a team that is constantly doing just enough to make us think that they could turn the corner "next year."

That borders on a conspiracy theory, and I don't think any sane person truly believes it's that manipulative.

I think it works like this: Ralph wants to win, but he also wants to save money and maximize profits. So, he takes the cheap route hoping it will pay off. The mentality isn't "I'm going to spend X, and we'll get as far as spending that much will allow. Screw trying to win." The mentality is "X is what I have, how can we win with that amount?" It seems like semantics, but it's a different mentality behind it. He tries to find ways to win within a certain budget. It hasn't produced results on the field.

However, the team still makes money. The fans still buy tickets and merch. So, while Ralph's methods haven't worked yet, he doesn't have the economic incentive to change them. And that's why this team has remained mired in mediocrity.

[madness]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

If Ralph only cared about money, he'd put a winning team on the field. Losing seasons doesn't not help his wallet.

[Night Train]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

You have to offer at least 4 years 16+ Mil to any name coaching candidate out there. Cowher would demand much more.

Ralph collected a cool 78 Mil from the Toronto deal. He doesn't need to overpay the roster but push that fresh $$ toward GM,coaching & scouting.

Ask yourself if Ralph will do that.

[OpIv37]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

If Ralph only cared about money, he'd put a winning team on the field. Losing seasons doesn't not help his wallet.

the fallacy in your argument is that losing seasons don't hurt his wallet either. we were 7-9 last year and still sold out this entire season, even the overpriced Toronto game.

[Typ0]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

If Ralph only cared about money, he'd put a winning team on the field. Losing seasons doesn't not help his wallet.

that was Jeffs point. RW has the short term vision of the past where you hoard money and exploit labor and the marketplace. Things have changed and the new marketing vision is about meeting peoples needs and profiting from your ability to do that.

[OpIv37]

Re: If all Ralph Wilson cares about is money

Ask yourself if Ralph will do that.

and if he does it, ask yourself if he'll do it right. Who was the last real quality football person Ralph had? And over the history of the organization, how many has he had total?

I'm too young to remember beyond 20 years, but in the last 20 years, Polian and Butler are the only ones I can think of.