Steve Johnson starts next year.

[BillsWin]

just a completely BOLD statement by me. But I think he has more immediate upside then Hardy at this point. With Hardy's lack of experience in football, his injury, him being benched... well, I just have this feeling that it will take Hardy another year maybe 2 to completely become a number 2 WR.

I think Steve is ready to be a #3 now.


crazy huh?

be gentle I have been drinking all day, but what do you guys think?

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I think cowher will whip him into shape

[Night Train]

He's ready to be a #2 right now, let alone a #3. Great hands & patterns.

The next coach will have some talent to work with.

It's only hopeless with the current staff & schemes.

[BillsWin]

Im sobering up, and I still have a feeling my bro Steve will be starting.

[Mitchy moo]

I think cowher will whip him into shape

:rockon:

[Jaybird]

i thought he would turn into the steal of the draft prior to the season... so let's see it

[DraftBoy]

Ummm....No....

If he is thats not a good sign at all...

[BillsWin]

Ummm....No....

If he is thats not a good sign at all...

youre always bias on players. especially if you didnt want us to take them. The Bills can't always go off your board DB!

GIVE THE KID A CHANCE! what has he done to show he's NOT ready?

[DraftBoy]

youre always bias on players. especially if you didnt want us to take them. The Bills can't always go off your board DB!

GIVE THE KID A CHANCE! what has he done to show he's NOT ready?


Its not about being ready its the fact that he would of passed Reed on the depth chart who is our best all-around WR and would further tell us that taking Roscoe where we did was a mistake and you have no idea what growth Hardy will show in the offseason, also 9 catches tells you basically nothing overall about if a kid is ready or not. He has a drop or two this season and his blocking is not where we would like it to be. Also communication on play break downs are another thing Id like to see him work on. Working his way back to the QB and being conscious of the clock in his head.

Also please at least know what you are talking about before you accuse me of anything. I liked the Johnson pick, I graded it highly.

[BillsWin]

Its not about being ready its the fact that he would of passed Reed on the depth chart who is our best all-around WR and would further tell us that taking Roscoe where we did was a mistake and you have no idea what growth Hardy will show in the offseason, also 9 catches tells you basically nothing overall about if a kid is ready or not. He has a drop or two this season and his blocking is not where we would like it to be. Also communication on play break downs are another thing Id like to see him work on. Working his way back to the QB and being conscious of the clock in his head.

Also please at least know what you are talking about before you accuse me of anything. I liked the Johnson pick, I graded it highly.

It's because I hate you. :D

[DraftBoy]

It's because I hate you. :D


Get in line, I have my own fan club. :respect:

[BillsWin]

also, I rated Johnson 4th-5th round. I had no clue hed drop to 7th. or that no WR would be taken till the 2nd for that matter.

and you got to admit. you can be bias towards the players YOU want.

Hardy MAY show growth, but hasnt shown much


I am curious to know where you put Hardy on your boards though???

[BillsWin]

Get in line, I have my own fan club. :respect:

I know, I'll be running for president next month...

[Dr. Lecter]

Its not about being ready its the fact that he would of passed Reed on the depth chart who is our best all-around WR and would further tell us that taking Roscoe where we did was a mistake and you have no idea what growth Hardy will show in the offseason, also 9 catches tells you basically nothing overall about if a kid is ready or not. He has a drop or two this season and his blocking is not where we would like it to be. Also communication on play break downs are another thing Id like to see him work on. Working his way back to the QB and being conscious of the clock in his head.

Also please at least know what you are talking about before you accuse me of anything. I liked the Johnson pick, I graded it highly.

OK, so he can't know how much Hardy will evolve, but you know exactly how much Johnson will evolve?

The kid is playing much better in the 2nd half of the season in his limited opportunities.

BTW, if Hardy blew his knee out he likely will miss part of next season and fall behind.

[DraftBoy]

also, I rated Johnson 4th-5th round. I had no clue hed drop to 7th. or that no WR would be taken till the 2nd for that matter.

and you got to admit. you can be bias towards the players YOU want.

Hardy MAY show growth, but hasnt shown much


I am curious to know where you put Hardy on your boards though???


That's nice, and nobody predicted the 1st Round WR drought we saw. I had Johnson as a 6th Round prospect. Not bad overall, but only two years of DI ball and only one year of big play time. He showed he can play ball but consistency was the question for him, plus limited upside.

I can be bias, but so is everybody else. Everybody likes who they like, and don't like who they don't like.

Hardy was the #4 WR;

1. Thomas
2. Sweed
3. Doucet
4. Hardy

Scouting Report:


4. James Hardy-Indiana 6’5, 217lbs, 4.51-40
Pros:
-Size
-Beat the Jam
-Strength
-Wingspan

Cons:
-Off the Field
-Struggles against Bigger CB’s
-Consistency
-Raw

An extremely raw prospect that has incredible size, Hardy uses his size to shield defenders from the ball and is extremely hard to defend against when he’s on his game. While he has the ability and measurable to escape the jam, Hardy struggled against some of the bigger and more physical Big 10 corners. He must improve his route running and his consistency but he has #1 WR potential.

[JD]

Watching him play in the final preseason game, this guy just looked like he had what it takes.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Its not about being ready its the fact that he would of passed Reed on the depth chart who is our best all-around WR and would further tell us that taking Roscoe where we did was a mistake and you have no idea what growth Hardy will show in the offseason, also 9 catches tells you basically nothing overall about if a kid is ready or not. He has a drop or two this season and his blocking is not where we would like it to be. Also communication on play break downs are another thing Id like to see him work on. Working his way back to the QB and being conscious of the clock in his head.

Also please at least know what you are talking about before you accuse me of anything. I liked the Johnson pick, I graded it highly.

How can you have that amount of analysis on Johnson with how little he has seen the field?
Reed is not as good outside as he is in the slot. The traditional "#3" ranking given to the slot receiver does not apply to Reed in this situation. Reed is still the better receiver, but he's not a very good #2. Johnson, therefore, does not necessarily have to pass him on the depth chart.
We did reach for Roscoe. Isn't that old news?

[BillsWin]

Roscoe was a reach. But he's won us some games with his PRs.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Roscoe was a reach. But he's won us some games with his PRs.

He's a great returner! I love the guy. He's just never going to contribute as a receiver.

[BillsWin]

He's a great returner! I love the guy. He's just never going to contribute as a receiver.

this is true.

[mysticsoto]

Its not about being ready its the fact that he would of passed Reed on the depth chart who is our best all-around WR and would further tell us that taking Roscoe where we did was a mistake and you have no idea what growth Hardy will show in the offseason, also 9 catches tells you basically nothing overall about if a kid is ready or not. He has a drop or two this season and his blocking is not where we would like it to be. Also communication on play break downs are another thing Id like to see him work on. Working his way back to the QB and being conscious of the clock in his head.

Also please at least know what you are talking about before you accuse me of anything. I liked the Johnson pick, I graded it highly.

DB, we usually agree on alot of these things, but here we disagree. Outside of offseason development - which we have no idea of, right now, Johnson appears to be ahead of Hardy by miles. That's a given. As to Reed, he may be a good WR running great routes and having good hands, but Reed does not have speed nor height. Johnson's 6'2" equals the size we used to have with Moulds and though he's not as fast as Evans, he's certainly plays as fast as Reed if not moreso. Reed excels at doing what he does as a #3. I am not taking anything away from him. But we tried him as a #2 and he just didn't have enough in terms of size and speed to fill the position. I think Johnson has what it takes and I'd love for Jauron to use him extensively for the last few games to further develop him!!!

[DraftBoy]

DB, we usually agree on alot of these things, but here we disagree. Outside of offseason development - which we have no idea of, right now, Johnson appears to be ahead of Hardy by miles. That's a given. As to Reed, he may be a good WR running great routes and having good hands, but Reed does not have speed nor height. Johnson's 6'2" equals the size we used to have with Moulds and though he's not as fast as Evans, he's certainly plays as fast as Reed if not moreso. Reed excels at doing what he does as a #3. I am not taking anything away from him. But we tried him as a #2 and he just didn't have enough in terms of size and speed to fill the position. I think Johnson has what it takes and I'd love for Jauron to use him extensively for the last few games to further develop him!!!



Correct if Im wrong here but the offense struggled mightily when Reed was hurt correct? I mean it was one of the most putrid things in the NFL, and since he's returned they have at least been able to score some points, correct?

Its not about Reed's route running or hands, because while they are good thats not what sets him apart imo. Its his blocking, his ability to find soft spots, and the way he works back to the QB. Johnson isnt as good as Reed in any of the areas you mentioned or I mentioned, he's close in a few (route running, hands) but in others he's still way behind. I dont see the need to bench our best all around WR for a guy who shows some potential because we want to rush the guy onto the field.

Give him the last few games yes, because they don't matter and we are done but I dont think we should be making perdictions about next year so soon based on only 9 total receptions.

[mysticsoto]

Correct if Im wrong here but the offense struggled mightily when Reed was hurt correct? I mean it was one of the most putrid things in the NFL, and since he's returned they have at least been able to score some points, correct?

Its not about Reed's route running or hands, because while they are good thats not what sets him apart imo. Its his blocking, his ability to find soft spots, and the way he works back to the QB. Johnson isnt as good as Reed in any of the areas you mentioned or I mentioned, he's close in a few (route running, hands) but in others he's still way behind. I dont see the need to bench our best all around WR for a guy who shows some potential because we want to rush the guy onto the field.

Give him the last few games yes, because they don't matter and we are done but I dont think we should be making perdictions about next year so soon based on only 9 total receptions.

It did stuggle mightily. But that's b'cse Trent only had 1 target - Evans. We had no viable #2 (and technically still don't). Reed provided another alternative for Trent. Reed is a great #3. Much better than Parrish in terms of finding an open spot, blocking (as you say), etc. But he is not a #2 WR. In 7 years he's been in the NFL he has 9 TDs. He averages between 400-500 yds a year. That's not #2 level caliber. In fact, he averages about 40 receptions a year which comes out to 2-3 catches a game. If you want to make him into a #2 WR, those are very poor numbers for him to be one. Now, as a #3, however, they are adequate - which is why I think he's better served there.

[DraftBoy]

It did stuggle mightily. But that's b'cse Trent only had 1 target - Evans. We had no viable #2 (and technically still don't). Reed provided another alternative for Trent. Reed is a great #3. Much better than Parrish in terms of finding an open spot, blocking (as you say), etc. But he is not a #2 WR. In 7 years he's been in the NFL he has 9 TDs. He averages between 400-500 yds a year. That's not #2 level caliber. In fact, he averages about 40 receptions a year which comes out to 2-3 catches a game. If you want to make him into a #2 WR, those are very poor numbers for him to be one. Now, as a #3, however, they are adequate - which is why I think he's better served there.


You dont traditionally block from the slot, because you are off the line so the DB has time to adjust, putting Reed in the slot strips us of what he is best at which is his dominating blocking.

I agree Id love to see Reed closer to 700 yards, and 5 TD's a year as the #2 guy, but I dont see how Johnson's 9 catches, 1 TD really make everybody suddenly think he could be a #2 in the NFL. He still needs a lot of work on the small things WR's do.

[mysticsoto]

You dont traditionally block from the slot, because you are off the line so the DB has time to adjust, putting Reed in the slot strips us of what he is best at which is his dominating blocking.

I agree Id love to see Reed closer to 700 yards, and 5 TD's a year as the #2 guy, but I dont see how Johnson's 9 catches, 1 TD really make everybody suddenly think he could be a #2 in the NFL. He still needs a lot of work on the small things WR's do.

This to me is the equivalent of those that argue that JP is our better option at QB, despite him not doing anything whenever he gets that opportunity. What makes me think that Johnson will be a good #2? I don't know. But I do know that in 7 years, Reed hasn't been a good #2. He's been a great #3. Therefore, I'm willing to give Johnson a try!!! And given that he seems to be catching on better than Hardy - I move him up. I don't give up on Hardy. But if Johnson earns it, I give him some time at #2 and maybe choose select plays for Hardy - mostly in the redzone initially and gradually expand.

[HHURRICANE]

DB, we usually agree on alot of these things, but here we disagree. Outside of offseason development - which we have no idea of, right now, Johnson appears to be ahead of Hardy by miles. That's a given. As to Reed, he may be a good WR running great routes and having good hands, but Reed does not have speed nor height. Johnson's 6'2" equals the size we used to have with Moulds and though he's not as fast as Evans, he's certainly plays as fast as Reed if not moreso. Reed excels at doing what he does as a #3. I am not taking anything away from him. But we tried him as a #2 and he just didn't have enough in terms of size and speed to fill the position. I think Johnson has what it takes and I'd love for Jauron to use him extensively for the last few games to further develop him!!!

Nice post. This kids size and speed is starting to prove out. He really looked good. Reed is and will always be #3.

Hardy might not play on this team again. He's that bad.

[Dr. Lecter]

Nice post. This kids size and speed is starting to prove out. He really looked good. Reed is and will always be #3.

Hardy might not play on this team again. He's that bad.

He was known to be a project. He will play again, it just might not be until halfway through next season.

[HHURRICANE]

He was known to be a project. He will play again, it just might not be until halfway through next season.

You don't draft projects in the 2nd round. Where did you get that from? This guy was supposed to have some impact this year or at worst develop for next year.

Our draft is starting to look just plain horrible.

[Dr. Lecter]

You don't draft projects in the 2nd round. Where did you get that from? This guy was supposed to have some impact this year or at worst develop for next year.

Our draft is starting to look just plain horrible.

Um, yeah.

After one years let's make that determination.

Do you remember Moulds in years one and two?

And, yes sometimes projects get drafter early when the upside is high.

[mysticsoto]

You don't draft projects in the 2nd round. Where did you get that from? This guy was supposed to have some impact this year or at worst develop for next year.

Our draft is starting to look just plain horrible.

It's unfair to consider Hardy a bust so quickly. Calvin Johnson was considered a sure thing when drafted and the 1st year he really didn't do much. He's doing much better now, but it takes time for WRs to adapt. Hardy will probably be fine, although this new injury is a serious setback for him!!!

[DraftBoy]

You don't draft projects in the 2nd round. Where did you get that from? This guy was supposed to have some impact this year or at worst develop for next year.

Our draft is starting to look just plain horrible.


That may be one of the dumbest statements Ive read today, and today has not been a good day for smart comments.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Correct if Im wrong here but the offense struggled mightily when Reed was hurt correct? I mean it was one of the most putrid things in the NFL, and since he's returned they have at least been able to score some points, correct?

Its not about Reed's route running or hands, because while they are good thats not what sets him apart imo. Its his blocking, his ability to find soft spots, and the way he works back to the QB. Johnson isnt as good as Reed in any of the areas you mentioned or I mentioned, he's close in a few (route running, hands) but in others he's still way behind. I dont see the need to bench our best all around WR for a guy who shows some potential because we want to rush the guy onto the field.

Give him the last few games yes, because they don't matter and we are done but I dont think we should be making perdictions about next year so soon based on only 9 total receptions.

Johnson has upside. We've seen all of Reed's. No way should we allow Reed to lose playing time because he is playing very well, but if there are 3 WR's on the field, I'd rather have Reed in the slot and Johnson outside. Reed does block and block well from both the slot and wide.

[DraftBoy]

Johnson has upside. We've seen all of Reed's. No way should we allow Reed to lose playing time because he is playing very well, but if there are 3 WR's on the field, I'd rather have Reed in the slot and Johnson outside. Reed does block and block well from both the slot and wide.


That makes no sense to me, the outside WR is going to be the guy who can engage his block quicker and have more momentum going towards the defender, than the slot WR why would we want our worse (of the two) blocking WR on the outside sealing the corner?

[BillsWin]

That makes no sense to me, the outside WR is going to be the guy who can engage his block quicker and have more momentum going towards the defender, than the slot WR why would we want our worse (of the two) blocking WR on the outside sealing the corner?

right. untill Johnson prooves he can be physical with his blocks, Reed is the guy to have on the outside. maybe give johnson some slot work, but I think if Johnson could block, putting him on the outside would proove well in getting him experience.