Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

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  • madness
    Registered User
    • Apr 2003
    • 13690

    Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

    Tuck's Takes: NFL Pro Bowl voting among players should be consistent

    The rosters for the 2009 Pro Bowl have been announced, which of course means it is time for the annual rite of passage in which all of the media pundits will harp on the same three things: the players that were snubbed, the players that got in but didn't deserve to and, perhaps most importantly, the flaws in the selection process. Though I'm quite sure some of my personal opinions regarding players that didn't deserve to get in (I'm talking to you, Jason Peters) and vice versa will come to the forefront, my focus will be on the process itself because more often than not that is where the problems originate.
    Most of the discussion on the process seems to focus on the fans having the ability to stuff the ballot box. That does not overly concern me, though I do think giving the fans one-third of the say might be too much say. And I don't really care if one team's fans, like the Redskins, overwhelm the fan vote. More power to them. If you've got a problem with that, rock the vote or mobilize your fanbase to do the same.
    I am much more intrigued by the rest of the vote, primarily the vote of one's peers which made getting selected to the Pro Bowl such an honor in the first place. There are some significant holes in the way in which players vote for the Pro Bowl that have to be rectified immediately in the interest of continuity and fairness. I have gone through the process a number of times on a number of teams and know that seemingly every organization does it its own way, some of which are better than others.
    First and foremost, we need uniformity among teams so the process is the same throughout the league. One team I was on simply had every player go into their own position room and fill out a ballot and turn it in like a fan voting online, with no discussion whatsoever. Some guys filled it out in less than five minutes. Not good.
    There is no way that I, as an offensive lineman, would know how well the corners or safeties around the league are truly playing. And do you honestly think the wide receivers really know what defensive tackle is doing the best job stopping the run? Please. All they know is what they hear on the scouting report, if they were even listening during that portion, or from the media hype machine that carries certain players to Hawaii every year.
    Players should primarily and often do only vote for the position groups they compete against or among. That means offensive linemen should vote for other offensive linemen, defensive linemen and linebackers. This varies from team to team. Then their votes are reconciled with the other position groups on the team to form one unanimous vote, for all intents and purposes, among the 53 guys on a team.
    That only works, or course, when the position groups decide to vote in unison, which is fairly common but can often cause heated discussions and some players may be forced to vote for players they do not deem worthy of the selection. That is where the politics can come into play. There is a long-held belief among a large segment of players that there is a mild form of collusion among the perennial Pro Bowlers to ensure they all make their way back to Hawaii yet again.
    Since Pro Bowlers are almost always the leaders of their position group if not their team, they tend to have a tremendous amount of influence during the voting process and thus the ability to push the room, as the case may be, in a certain direction. That might be part of the reason why a veteran stalwart that is having a subpar season, like Charles Woodson, gets selected.
    Though I never really bought into the collusion theory it did seem to me like forcing a group consensus unfairly diminished each individual voter's ballot. For example, though I think Justin Tuck, Julius Peppers and Jared Allen are all three-down players and very deserving, there is no way I could have left John Abraham off the ballot with what he has been able to accomplish this season for the Falcons while being their only legitimate pass rusher. Yet if I was on a team and we decided collectively to go with the other three, my vote would no longer matter.
    The best way to do it is to allow each player to vote the way he wants to individually while allowing him to converse with other teammates at other position groups that he trusts for their objectivity before making selections at positions he does not watch as much on film, lest reputation trump performance. That is the way it often goes with kickers and punters. Though some teams just vote for whichever punter has the best average, only the punters and special teams' coaches really know who is having the best year when net average, weather, and punts downed inside the 20 are taken into account.

    ...

  • madness
    Registered User
    • Apr 2003
    • 13690

    #2
    Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

    Ross Tucker says Peters didn’t deserve Pro Bowl

    By Chris Brown - Posted December 18th, 2008
    Former Bills offensive lineman Ross Tucker, who now writes for SI.com did a reactionary column on the heels of the Pro Bowl roster announcements and specifically called out Jason Peters as an undeserving Pro Bowl player this year.
    Being a former offensive lineman his opinion certainly carries some degree of credibility. Take it for what it’s worth.

    Comment

    • Jeff1220
      H to the 12:20
      • Jul 2002
      • 6137

      #3
      Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

      Good article by Tucker. I never really knew how the peer voting worked, and I'm surprised at the lack of formality or consistency throughout the league. No wonder this is not just a game that has become a joke, but an 'honor' that has become one as well.

      Comment

      • ddaryl
        Everything I post is sexual inuendo
        • Jan 2005
        • 10714

        #4
        Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

        well this will pretty much guarentee Peters will demand to be a top 5 payed LT in the offseason. This could be an ugly offseaosn part deux

        Comment

        • sauce
          Registered User
          • Dec 2008
          • 171

          #5
          Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

          I believe the original poster ment former OL Ross Tucker....not Justin Tuck

          Comment

          • BlackMetalNinja
            I'm not Jewish, I'm just in it for the hats.
            • May 2005
            • 31525

            #6
            Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

            You guys would know if you'd listen to some posters that the media doesn't understand these things, we're just too upset as Buffalo fans that one of our guys is such a superstar

            Comment

            • gr8slayer
              Registered User
              • Feb 2005
              • 20796

              #7
              Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

              Originally posted by BlackMetalNinja
              You guys would know if you'd listen to some posters that the media doesn't understand these things, we're just too upset as Buffalo fans that one of our guys is such a superstar
              Yeah, some fans are ignorant morons and should really stick to mixed martial arts (won't say any names though).

              Comment

              • BlackMetalNinja
                I'm not Jewish, I'm just in it for the hats.
                • May 2005
                • 31525

                #8
                Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                Originally posted by Dreadnought94
                Yeah, some fans are ignorant morons and should really stick to mixed martial arts (won't say any names though).
                You're ridiculous bro... 90% of the population disagrees with you and somehow that makes them all morons. Scouted out a new team to go pretend to be a diehard fan for awhile yet?

                Comment

                • gr8slayer
                  Registered User
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 20796

                  #9
                  Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                  Originally posted by BlackMetalNinja
                  You're ridiculous bro... 90% of the population disagrees with you and somehow that makes them all morons. Scouted out a new team to go pretend to be a diehard fan for awhile yet?
                  Apparently more than half of the players, coaches, and fans disagree with you or he wouldn't have gotten in. I should be asking you the same with your new obsession with USC.

                  Comment

                  • BlackMetalNinja
                    I'm not Jewish, I'm just in it for the hats.
                    • May 2005
                    • 31525

                    #10
                    Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                    Originally posted by Dreadnought94
                    Apparently more than half of the players, coaches, and fans disagree with you or he wouldn't have gotten in. I should be asking you the same with your new obsession with USC.
                    New??? Not even close, I've followed them for as long as Miami, just not with anywhere near the passion. I never claimed to be a huge USC fan... and if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't denounce it later because they weren't doing well.

                    Comment

                    • gr8slayer
                      Registered User
                      • Feb 2005
                      • 20796

                      #11
                      Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                      What's funny about you on this issue is that you won't give a decent reason as to why he doesn't deserve to be on the roster. You just continue to try and start fights on the issue like you do with nearly everything I have to say (odd considering your moderator status) without giving a valid reason to back up your argument. Just saying; "he sucked over the first four games of the season" isn't very valid. Why did he suck, what areas did he suck in, where do you want to see him improve, what did he do wrong that the next guy who you think deserves to get in did better?
                      Last edited by gr8slayer; 12-18-2008, 03:03 PM.

                      Comment

                      • gr8slayer
                        Registered User
                        • Feb 2005
                        • 20796

                        #12
                        Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                        Originally posted by BlackMetalNinja
                        New??? Not even close, I've followed them for as long as Miami, just not with anywhere near the passion. I never claimed to be a huge USC fan... and if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't denounce it later because they weren't doing well.
                        Great, I've followed the Cowboys as long as I've followed the Bills and have never claimed to do anything but. At this point in my life the Bills are a bad investment for me, it's simply too expensive to keep traveling across the country to watch a team that simply does not care anymore. I gave them my best for 15 years and it simply proved to be the wrong choice, the fact that the Bills are probably done in Buffalo within the next half-decade or so doesn't help the matter either.

                        Neither the Bills or Cowboys mean **** in the grand scheme of things though, I'm a fan of every single team in the NFL. I go to games every year where neither team is playing, simply because I love the NFL. This year it was Tennessee vs. Green Bay, next year it will be two more teams.

                        Same goes for college football, I go to multiple games every year that involves two teams I could care less about simply for the love of the game. I'm really flattered that you're concerned about who I follow but you're really wasting your time and your opinion about me won't change the way I live my life or post on a message board. You can either ignore it and act like I'm not here or you can accept the fact that I'm here to enjoy talking football and we can talk football.

                        Comment

                        • DynaPaul
                          Registered User
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 7540

                          #13
                          Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                          I 100% agree with Tucker. Obviously Peters got in by name only.

                          Comment

                          • !Papacrunk!
                            Registered User
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 2786

                            #14
                            Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                            I think John Madden took time stuffing the ballots instead of his mouth in order to get Favre in

                            Comment

                            • gr8slayer
                              Registered User
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 20796

                              #15
                              Re: Paraphrasing Tuck on PB voting "JPeters?!? Seriously, WTF???"

                              Originally posted by !Papacrunk!
                              I think John Madden took time stuffing the ballots instead of his mouth in order to get Favre in
                              Yeah, there's no way he should have gotten in over Pennington, on the same token there's no way Brown should have gotten in over Slaton. Either way there's always going to be someone left out who should have gotten in, just look at London Fletcher.

                              Comment

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